NationStates Jolt Archive

...would think of something like this?

I find this to be extremely disturbing:

According to their article, "more and more women are said to be troubled by the shape, size or proportions of their vulvas," turning the operation into a "booming business." Although precise figures aren't available, an apparent trend is emerging. In 2004 and 2005, the British National Health Service performed 800 labial reductions -- six times as many as in 1998 and 1999. Meanwhile, the number of privately financed operations is unknown.

Seriously, what the hell?

Labial reductions? That is insane! Why would anyone want to have that done?!?

"Hey Doc! I'd like to have bigger boobs and a smaller cootie, please!"

(Link: http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,485045,00.html )

And the countdown to the first person saying "we need pictures!" begins.

*looks up "vulva"*

ooooh right...erm people are dumb just look at all the guys who now have freakishly deformed penises and yet we still have folk taking the surgery

us men should take a stand and demand massive do-dars!

On the NHS? I pay my damned taxes for that? It doesn't even benefit me!

Waste of my damned money, for something so ruddy materialistic. Disturbing is a huge understatement.

And the countdown to the first person saying "we need pictures!" begins.

will this do?
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/RiverIsMyGoddess/icons/smiley_needpics.gif

I think I've heard about woman being insecure about the size of their labia. Like if one's bigger then the other or something.

Besides - could it possibly be that there are some guys (and gals) who might like a large labia? Huh?

Ever though of them?!?

I've heard of those before, and they do indeed give me the creeps. It seems like something of a self-perpetuating industry, as it never even occurred to me that there was an "ideal" way for a labia to look until I started hearing about these surgeries, and then, of course, I inevitably wondered how mine compared to that "ideal." Since I'm (comparatively) sane and well-adjusted, idle wondering was the end of it, but I can imagine how some women might proceed to decide that their labias were somehow unattractive and needed "fixing."

Still...weird.

Extreme cases aside, it really makes no sense.

will this do?
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/RiverIsMyGoddess/icons/smiley_needpics.gif

Well, it's certainly a more interesting way of saying it than I was expecting. :p

Usually I'd be among those telling you that women can do whatever the hell they want to themselves and that you should mind your own damn business... And honestly, I'm still taking that stance. They should be able to do it if they want to.

However... And this is a big one... What. The. FUCK? :eek:

Better yet, why? :confused:

Isn't coming in all shapes and sizes what makes'em so great?!?

Just wondering!

Right mind? If anybody around here is in their right mind, I want that person caught, chained to a wall and pied once every three minutes until the light of sanity leaves his or her eyes never to return and giggles incessantly. :)

Right mind? If anybody around here is in their right mind, I want that person caught, chained to a wall and pied once every three minutes until the light of sanity leaves his or her eyes never to return and giggles incessantly. :)
I'm down for that - unless you start performing labial reductions.

Then you will be introduced to a world of pain like you've never known. ;)

Better yet, why? :confused:

Obsession over image.

Well, it's certainly a more interesting way of saying it than I was expecting. :p

*gives Philosopy a voucher for a free labial reduction*

it's kind of disturbing though, why would a woman ever want a labial reduction, if her partner ever sees her labiae (?) you'd think it would be to late to say: "nah, sorry, i won't have sex with somebody with labia like that" or something similar? and aren't all vulva's quite unattractive?

Plastic surgery in general has gotten out of hand. I don't know how many studies have been done that show people aren't any happier after.
It's one thing if someone is born with a birth defect. I think plastic surgery makes sense in that case. Otherwise, leave everything alone.

will this do?
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/RiverIsMyGoddess/icons/smiley_needpics.gif
Nice.

Still, I'm not going to get myself banned - although the cause might very well be a worthy one. ;)
I think I've heard about woman being insecure about the size of their labia. Like if one's bigger then the other or something.
And? What's next? Using implants to change their breast size for reasons of insecurity? Oh... wait!
Extreme cases aside, it really makes no sense.
I sure doesn't!
Usually I'd be among those telling you that women can do whatever the hell they want to themselves and that you should mind your own damn business... And honestly, I'm still taking that stance. They should be able to do it if they want to.

However... And this is a big one... What. The. FUCK? :eek:

Better yet, why? :confused:
If they want it, they can have it. But they should pay for it themselves, not via the system.

And I for sure don't have to like it - at all! Besides, I do not understand the reason behind it.

That's voluntary genital mutilation?!?

We've had that topic before, Poliwanacraca might remember it, it was in a sadly short-lived thread on plastic surgery.

It may seem crazy to you, but as so many other things it has its roots in both prudishness and the wide availability of porn through mainly the internet.

I can't really link to any of the pertinent sites, but you will find that large inner labia on the internet are apparently the thing that only fetish sites do. "Normal" sites only show "normal" labia - with "normal" meaning as invisible as possible. Because that's what became the norm in the sex industry ever since Playboy did it.

Here's a copy & paste from a site I can't link to (edited by me for formatting and PG13-ness):

Why Playboy Rarely Shows Women With Large Inner Labia

Playboy Magazine as the Norm For Female Beauty

Playboy publishes two types of magazines. There is the regular monthly magazine and there are the lesser known Special Editions (see further below). Undeniably, all models are very attractive and to many they have become the norm for female beauty.

The fact that the regular magazine hardly shows models with protruding labia minora has caused women to believe that large labia are considered unattractive. Hey, if it's not in Playboy then it must be because men don't like it, right? However, it's not that simple.

Playboy is not porn, it's a booby magazine. To comply with the rule of discreet genital detail it will only show full frontal nudity if the model has a vulva with small or tucked in labia minora. Showing protruding labia is considered too explicit.

Besides having great articles, Playboy is a booby magazine, not a porn magazine. It has hardly any pictures that show naked vulvas. Instead, it wants to tease and tickle your senses by displaying female curves and by being suggestive about women's genital area.

For instance, the current Playboy (April 2005) has about 40 pictures of nude women. Only six of these show the girl's vulva, like the image above. The rest of the pictures show their naked boobs, or a combination of boobs and glutes or concealed pussy.

There is no question that the people at Playboy also handle some set of "beauty-criteria" that must be met before a girl is accepted as a photo model. General appearance, skin complexion, body fat, hip-to-waist ratio, breast size, facial features, body proportions, etc. are for sure some of them.

And yes, it seems that for their regular magazine they do consider labia size and prefer girls with small or invisible inner labia. If a girl has long labia then she is portrayed in a pose that hides them. But is it because they believe they're ugly? Not at all! They do it because showing labia minora that extend beyond the outer lips is considered too sexually explicit, in other words too sexy!

There Are Rules About the Display of Genital Detail:
Long Inner Labia are Too Explicit!

There are unwritten rules in the world of publication that specify what is allowed in magazines (or on TV) and what is not. A major one is about the display of genitals. No doubt they vary some from country to country. But in general it seems that for a publication to be classified as mild eroticism, penises can only be shown flaccid or in very light state of arousal and inner labia shouldn't be exposed. In terms of sexual explicitness long inner labia are the equivalent of an erected penis.

Those countries with a long history of Victorian prudishness have been among the most conservative in this regard. Until recently British broadcasters had to follow the ILOOLI rule — inner labia are out (not allowed), outer labia are in (allowed). In Australia a magazine is deemed porn if it shows an image of a woman with protruding inner labia. The size and shape of her labia is a decisive factor in their rule of "discreet genital detail".

Censorship of publications in Australia: Irene Graham, Director of EFA (efa.org.au) explains how magazines like Penthouse and Playboy need to digitally remove (airbrush) any visible inner labia from their photos. If they don't, the censors classify it as Category 1 Restricted and it can only be sold when wrapped in plastic.

Penthouse versus Playboy

Penthouse Magazine, which considers itself hard-core porn, shows women's protruding inner labia all the time and so do numerous other sex magazines. Labia size doesn't matter to them since they are not restricted by rules about sexual explicitness.

For instance, the big lipped Victoria Knight, one of the internet's most popular porn stars, was Penthouse's cover-girl a few years ago (under the name Leah Maree Willis). Inside she was posing spread-eagle with her large hanging labia shown in all their glory. If anything, she got the job because of her big labia!

Playboy on the other hand can't display women's protruding labia so clearly. Although it wants to appeal to the sexual senses of horny men, it also wants to be tame enough for the mainstream population. (It is one of the few erotic publications that women will allow their husband to come home with!) So, for the time being, they censor inner labia and compensate by maximizing the exposure of that other big eye-catcher: large breasts

The Playboy Special Editions DO Show Labia

For those men who require a little more spice, Playboy started another series of magazines: the Playboy Special Editions. These are picture books that are still about classy nudity but less restricted, with more genital detail. There are no articles and no ads, only pictures of beautiful naked (or half-naked) women. Playboy two of these books each month. Special Editions' flagship Book of Lingerie comes out six times a year along with regular issues such as College Girls and Barefoot Beauties.

When you compare the pictures to the regular edition it's obvious that breast size is much less important. Natural breasts are everywhere and implants are rarer. Plenty of models have medium boobs or even small ones.

Women's vulvas are shown clearer and more often and labia size is not such an issue anymore. Some of the girls have tiny inner labia, others have protruding ones. It doesn't matter. In the words of Playboy, all the models in the magazine are beautiful and incredibly breathtaking women!

There was another article somewhere that I can't find right now, which talked a bit more about those "unspoken decency rules" that led to the small labia norm. And anybody who has ever looked at mainstream porn on the internet knows that it IS the norm.

Sounds terrible, but not surprising. Vanity has few limits.

I've heard of those before, and they do indeed give me the creeps. It seems like something of a self-perpetuating industry, as it never even occurred to me that there was an "ideal" way for a labia to look until I started hearing about these surgeries, and then, of course, I inevitably wondered how mine compared to that "ideal." Since I'm (comparatively) sane and well-adjusted, idle wondering was the end of it, but I can imagine how some women might proceed to decide that their labias were somehow unattractive and needed "fixing."

Still...weird.

That's exactly how it works.

We've had that topic before, Poliwanacraca might remember it, it was in a sadly short-lived thread on plastic surgery.

It may seem crazy to you, but as so many other things it has its roots in both prudishness and the wide availability of porn through mainly the internet.

I can't really link to any of the pertinent sites, but you will find that large inner labia on the internet are apparently the thing that only fetish sites do. "Normal" sites only show "normal" labia - with "normal" meaning as invisible as possible. Because that's what became the norm in the sex industry ever since Playboy did it.

Here's a copy & paste from a site I can't link to (edited by me for formatting and PG13-ness):



There was another article somewhere that I can't find right now, which talked a bit more about those "unspoken decency rules" that led to the small labia norm. And anybody who has ever looked at mainstream porn on the internet knows that it IS the norm.

I think I missed that thread the first time around (or at least I don't remember it), but I wondered if pornographic "norms" might have something to do with it - after all, porn has changed perceptions of female beauty before. (I once met a guy who told me that pubic hair on a woman is "unnatural" and "abnormal." Gee, I wonder what girls he's been looking at? :rolleyes:) It doesn't surprise me to find that such norms could originally be set not by any actual sexual preference on anyone's part, but solely by decency laws.

Here's a copy & paste from a site I can't link to...
For giving 'em info, I have to say, I labia WYTYG. ;)

Anyways, when I graduate, I would invent brain implants to make people smarter.

People can rationalize anything.

People can also irrationalize anything.

I think I missed that thread the first time around (or at least I don't remember it), but I wondered if pornographic "norms" might have something to do with it - after all, porn has changed perceptions of female beauty before. (I once met a guy who told me that pubic hair on a woman is "unnatural" and "abnormal." Gee, I wonder what girls he's been looking at? :rolleyes:) It doesn't surprise me to find that such norms could originally be set not by any actual sexual preference on anyone's part, but solely by decency laws.

You must have forgotten, you were pretty involved in the thread (given its short life span). It's really long ago, though.

And again, I couldn't agree more.
I mean, really, it was only a matter of time. One can only see so many naked or half-naked people (I'm thinking celebrities here for the latter :p) that look exactly the same and are seen as the epitome of beauty that we should aspire to and NOT start comparing oneself with them.

And people were saying I was full of shit when I said so in the last thread, but I actually think that that friend of yours you quoted is not one in a million. There are so many kids practically growing up with internet porn galore (and not Pinup Playboy style porn, but close-up crotch action) - considering that's gonna be the ONLY place where they see naked women for quite a few years (in the US ,they don't even see them on TV and/or movies) they HAVE to think that's what women look like! Maybe not the balloon-like Double E silicone breasts, but most of the other stuff. Like that all women come without pubic hair. Or that all breasts stay upright when she lies on her back. Stuff like that.

[/pet peeve rant]

For giving 'em info, I have to say, I labia WYTYG. ;)In the context of this thread, I'll take that as a compliment. :p

Like that all women come without pubic hair. Or that all breasts stay upright when she lies on her back. Stuff like that.
:eek: There are women without pubic hair? I thought them women only shave them legs and armpits, but the mons pubis???

When breasts stay upright, it only means two things: it's an implant or she's in estrus.

OKAY Look people in the eternal words of Richard Pryor:

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD PUSSY!

End of discussion

OKAY Look people in the eternal words of Richard Pryor:

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD PUSSY!

If you are not convinced ladies, consult your nearest sexualy attractive black man...

End of discussion

Until you get AIDS and die a death after a long period of time which allows you to contemplate your upcoming death.

You must have forgotten, you were pretty involved in the thread (given its short life span). It's really long ago, though.


Heh, it's the sort of thread to attract me (as can be seen by the fact that I'm here), so I'll believe you. My memory, while amazing at pulling up lyrics to crappy pop songs I heard fifteen years ago, is not so great at remembering actual interesting conversations. :p


And again, I couldn't agree more.
I mean, really, it was only a matter of time. One can only see so many naked or half-naked people (I'm thinking celebrities here for the latter :p) that look exactly the same and are seen as the epitome of beauty that we should aspire to and NOT start comparing oneself with them.

And people were saying I was full of shit when I said so in the last thread, but I actually think that that friend of yours you quoted is not one in a million. There are so many kids practically growing up with internet porn galore (and not Pinup Playboy style porn, but close-up crotch action) - considering that's gonna be the ONLY place where they see naked women for quite a few years (in the US ,they don't even see them on TV and/or movies) they HAVE to think that's what women look like! Maybe not the balloon-like Double E silicone breasts, but most of the other stuff. Like that all women come without pubic hair. Or that all breasts stay upright when she lays back. Stuff like that.

[/pet peeve rant]

Indeed, I agree. The guy in question may be an extreme case (at least I hope he is!), but I've met many people with what seem to be porn-based perceptions of how the opposite gender is "supposed" to look and act. It's kind of sad and frustrating, because there's no real way to fix it. I mean, we could run around yelling, "Porn is not realistic! At all! Real people do not look or act like that!" but we'd probably get some rather funny looks.

OKAY Look people in the eternal words of Richard Pryor:

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD PUSSY!

If you are not convinced ladies, consult your nearest sexualy attractive black man...

End of discussion

Ah, so it's only Whitey who's furthering labia oppression?

"Porn is not realistic! At all! Real people do not look or act like that!"

We hope.

My fucking god, I saw a picture of some pop singer in Newsweek recently (The one about gender identity and stuff.) who looks like a fucking doll. Not as in some semi-clever way of referring to someone who has had a bunch of plastic surgery, but she seriously looks like a fucking cabbage patch doll.

Any Newsweek readers know what I'm talking about?

Ah, so it's only Whitey who's furthering labia oppression?

Of course not,
you can also consult your close female friend, the pool boy, your employees, anybody...

You know, this really bothers me, because these women are being convinced there's something wrong with normal genetic variation, and are having part of their genitals CUT OFF. Most of the pleasure a woman feels is from external stimulation, as the vaginal canal is rather lacking in nerves once you get past the first inch or so.

This isn't healthy, and honestly, I think it's stupid. If your man thinks your pussy is ugly, it's time to find a different man.

Not as in some semi-clever way of referring to someone who has had a bunch of plastic surgery, but she seriously looks like a fucking cabbage patch doll.
Cabbage patch doll?? Complete with a cabbage head? Cabbage-sized bewbs? Cabbage-leaf labia? WHAT is a cabbage patch doll?!?

Obviously I suck at foreign idioms.

We hope.

I seriously doubt that most women scream and shriek during intercourse.

besides the article posted by wytyg which explains much...

800 isnt A LOT of labial surgeries. it may be that those 800 women did have freakishly odd labia. its not out of the question in a country of many millions.

but, a friend of mine who lives in miami once explained the trend to me.

if a woman wears a tiny string bikini bottom swimsuit, all but the smallest of labia tend to hang around the edges of the string. women who are trying to look hip, sophisticated and trendy dont want "droopy labia". yes they could just wear a more appropriate swim suit but then what would the rich playboys they are associating with them think?

supposedly the surgery is fairly common in miami. who knew?

besides the article posted by wytyg which explains much...

800 isnt A LOT of labial surgeries. it may be that those 800 women did have freakishly odd labia. its not out of the question in a country of many millions.

but, a friend of mine who lives in miami once explained the trend to me.

if a woman wears a tiny string bikini bottom swimsuit, all but the smallest of labia tend to hang around the edges of the string. women who are trying to look hip, sophisticated and trendy dont want "droopy labia". yes they could just wear a more appropriate swim suit but then what would the rich playboys they are associating with them think?

supposedly the surgery is fairly common in miami. who knew?

Well, you have to consider the fact that Miami is shitty anyway.

You know, this really bothers me, because these women are being convinced there's something wrong with normal genetic variation, and are having part of their genitals CUT OFF. Most of the pleasure a woman feels is from external stimulation, as the vaginal canal is rather lacking in nerves once you get past the first inch or so.

This isn't healthy, and honestly, I think it's stupid. If your man thinks your pussy is ugly, it's time to find a different man.

if your man thinks your pussy is ugly he either isnt really into you or he's gay.

most likely gay.

no man should be so jaded that he has high standards for pussy shape.

800 isnt A LOT of labial surgeries. it may be that those 800 women did have freakishly odd labia. its not out of the question in a country of many millions.
I believe the 800 was the number of government-funded labial surgeries in the UK alone. The number could be much, much, higher, as the 800 excludes those privately-funded surgeries and all of those done outside the UK.

I seriously doubt that most women scream and shriek during intercourse.

Which is why I said people hopefully don't act like that.

Well, you have to consider the fact that Miami is shitty anyway.

its like an entirely different country

or planet

I believe the 800 was the number of government-funded labial surgeries in the UK alone. The number could be much, much, higher, as the 800 excludes those privately-funded surgeries and all of those done outside the UK.

Why is the governmend funding labia surgeries? Are they for their interns or something?

no man should be so jaded that he has high standards for pussy shape.
well some women have standards for penis length...

Why is the governmend funding labia surgeries? Are they for their interns or something?
Ask that British National Health Service.
Probably them big labia are a major cause of diseases, or dangerous to one's health. :p

well some women have standards for penis length...

Some women like Italian sausage, others like Bologna...memories :)

Ask that British National Health Service.
Probably them big labia are a major cause of diseases, or dangerous to one's health. :p

Maybe it shifts your center of gravity, leading to a greater likelihood of falling and injuring yourself.

well some women have standards for penis length...

ahhh so youve been to miami...

if you get passionate with a woman, get her all interested in sex with you, and when you take off your pants she refuses because of your penis size....

you are hung like an elephant (or a mouse) or she has had a few too many men in her sexual life.

in any case, you should use better judgement next time.

Maybe it shifts your center of gravity, leading to a greater likelihood of falling and injuring yourself.
No. Them labia are the center of gravity... for some men.

ahhh so youve been to miami...

if you get passionate with a woman, get her all interested in sex with you, and when you take off your pants she refuses because of your penis size....

you are hung like an elephant (or a mouse) or she has had a few too many men in her sexual life.

in any case, you should use better judgement next time.
:confused: :confused:
I am a prude.

:confused: :confused:
I am a prude.

then you probably wont end up with such a problem

unless you are unusually small or large.

after all, labia size is irrelevant to sexual enjoyment, penis size is not.

labia size is irrelevant to sexual enjoyment, penis size is not.

Well let's not forget about our tounges...

then you probably wont end up with such a problem

unless you are unusually small or large.

after all, labia size is irrelevant to sexual enjoyment, penis size is not.
I thought the stimulation of the clitoris is enough??

Speaking of genital enhancement, I heard that somewhere, men inject their penises with melted petroleum jelly to make it bigger. That is serious. It had been featured on TV.

I thought the stimulation of the clitoris is enough??

Speaking of genital enhancement, I heard that somewhere, men inject their penises with melted petroleum jelly to make it bigger. That is serious. It had been featured on TV.

oh those male surgeries to increase girth are very prone to horrifically bad results.

if a man is so large that its a struggle to fit inside a woman, its a problem. if the man is so very small that its hard to feel him inside at all, its a problem

the vast majority of men are neither too small nor too large. for them, its all technique.

oh those male surgeries to increase girth are very prone to horrifically bad results.
... um, it's not even a surgery. It's a DIY job at home, or with friends...

if a man is so large that its a struggle to fit inside a woman, its a problem. if the man is so very small that its hard to feel him inside at all, its a problem

the vast majority of men are neither too small nor too large. for them, its all technique.
Oh, the many things I learn everyday from NSG!

Anyways, when I graduate, I would invent brain implants to make people smarter.That'd just lead into more obsessive-compulsive disorders :D

That'd just lead into more obsessive-compulsive disorders :D
Then good! I like my floors to be squeaky clean.

... um, it's not even a surgery. It's a DIY job at home, or with friends...


oh

my

god

what kind of man could DO that to his most precious body part?

Really? That's the most precious part?

Screw University! I'm way off course! :p

Really? That's the most precious part?

Screw University! I'm way off course! :p

oh come on. what, outside of those parts without which you cannot survive would you agree to lose your penis instead of?

would you keep an arm but have your penis hacked off? your foot? your left kidney? your nose?

I'm not really sure what a labia is...but that surgery sounds weird.

oh come on. what, outside of those parts without which you cannot survive would you agree to lose your penis instead of?

would you keep an arm but have your penis hacked off? your foot? your left kidney? your nose?

Arm: Lose the pecker.
Foot: Probably would lose the pecker.
Left Kidney: Definately lose the pecker.
Nose: Not sure...have to think on that one.


Sex isn't as important to me as it is to so many others...

I'm not really sure what a labia is...but that surgery sounds weird.

I only learnt 2 weeks ago in Biology, so you're not much further behind than me really. And that surgery is wierd. And paid for by me and others who pay there taxes...I'll stop before I go on for a political rant...breathe....in, out...in, out...

You know what else is bizarre? Anal bleaching.

Arm: Lose the pecker.
Foot: Probably would lose the pecker.
Left Kidney: Definately lose the pecker.
Nose: Not sure...have to think on that one.


Sex isn't as important to me as it is to so many others...

i should start a new thread and put up a poll. i cant imagine many men would share your sentiments.

err ok

i should start a new thread and put up a poll. i cant imagine many men would share your sentiments.

That's alright, I'm not "many men". I prefer to be different in that respect.

*snip, was to WYTYG*

I've met many people with what seem to be porn-based perceptions of how the opposite gender is "supposed" to look and act. It's kind of sad and frustrating, because there's no real way to fix it. I mean, we could run around yelling, "Porn is not realistic! At all! Real people do not look or act like that!" but we'd probably get some rather funny looks.

In so far as porn is regulated by government (i.e. not so much internet porn, but printed and dvd porn) it could be fixed. The guideline about "discreet genital detail" for soft-core ought to GO, and be replaced by a guideline saying "representative of the range of normal genitals" or perhaps "not in a state of arousal" like for men's bits in porn.

I used to love my porn, but I eventually decided that looking at girls I couldn't have sex with was making my problems worse not better. Criticizing porn should not be based on moral grounds at all, but on a blokes plain self-interest: "why form an icon of sexual desirability which makes most real women unattractive to you? You are only limiting your own range of choice."

EDIT: Yeah, it should say "the porn consumer" not "a bloke" to allow that women enjoy porn too; that they too might foolishly develop their sexual tastes from something other than experience. "Oh brave new world, that has such people in't."

I only learnt 2 weeks ago in Biology, so you're not much further behind than me really. And that surgery is wierd. And paid for by me and others who pay there taxes...I'll stop before I go on for a political rant...breathe....in, out...in, out...

Ok...I'm still a bit confused though...

Ok...I'm still a bit confused though...

Check your TGs. And I'll go get a biology book.

Obsession over image.
I dread the day when it comes fashionable to split the pecker down the middle or something as weird.
*gives Philosopy a voucher for a free labial reduction*
it's kind of disturbing though, why would a woman ever want a labial reduction, if her partner ever sees her labiae (?) you'd think it would be to late to say: "nah, sorry, i won't have sex with somebody with labia like that" or something similar?
I know!
and aren't all vulva's quite attractive?
Fixed for accuracy!!!
Plastic surgery in general has gotten out of hand. I don't know how many studies have been done that show people aren't any happier after.
It's one thing if someone is born with a birth defect. I think plastic surgery makes sense in that case. Otherwise, leave everything alone.
I can only agree.
Plastic surgery to correct serious defects or to restore is absolutely fine and good to have.
Anything else really just is a perversion.
No fake boobs, butts, lips, no circumcision or labial reduction for me, please!
We've had that topic before, Poliwanacraca might remember it, it was in a sadly short-lived thread on plastic surgery.
It may seem crazy to you, but as so many other things it has its roots in both prudishness and the wide availability of porn through mainly the internet.
I can't really link to any of the pertinent sites, but you will find that large inner labia on the internet are apparently the thing that only fetish sites do. "Normal" sites only show "normal" labia - with "normal" meaning as invisible as possible. Because that's what became the norm in the sex industry ever since Playboy did it.
Here's a copy & paste from a site I can't link to (edited by me for formatting and PG13-ness):
[ARTICLE]
There was another article somewhere that I can't find right now, which talked a bit more about those "unspoken decency rules" that led to the small labia norm. And anybody who has ever looked at mainstream porn on the internet knows that it IS the norm.
What the hell?!?
I think I missed that thread the first time around (or at least I don't remember it), but I wondered if pornographic "norms" might have something to do with it - after all, porn has changed perceptions of female beauty before. (I once met a guy who told me that pubic hair on a woman is "unnatural" and "abnormal." Gee, I wonder what girls he's been looking at? :rolleyes:) It doesn't surprise me to find that such norms could originally be set not by any actual sexual preference on anyone's part, but solely by decency laws.
Pubes unnatural? That guy still believes the world is flat, right?
For giving 'em info, I have to say, I labia WYTYG. ;)
Anyways, when I graduate, I would invent brain implants to make people smarter.
That would be a good idea.
:eek: There are women without pubic hair? I thought them women only shave them legs and armpits, but the mons pubis???
Well, if they don't have pubes yet - run away!
Honestly, the only thing I'd ever ask a woman to shave are her legs. I really don't mind anything else.
When breasts stay upright, it only means two things: it's an implant or she's in estrus.
Sadly, that brings back memories that I wish I could forget.
You know, this really bothers me, because these women are being convinced there's something wrong with normal genetic variation, and are having part of their genitals CUT OFF. Most of the pleasure a woman feels is from external stimulation, as the vaginal canal is rather lacking in nerves once you get past the first inch or so.
And to think that they do that voluntarily - while others still try to get rid of female circumcision... Sad, really.
This isn't healthy, and honestly, I think it's stupid. If your man thinks your pussy is ugly, it's time to find a different man.
If my woman thinks her pussy is ugly, it's time to find a different woman.
I seriously doubt that most women scream and shriek during intercourse.
Some are screamers, other are not. Like with everything, there's those and those.
(I could've said that you're obviously doing something wrong - but that's not really true.)
well some women have standards for penis length...
Some women like Italian sausage, others like Bologna...memories :)
>< I remember that thread.
Maybe it shifts your center of gravity, leading to a greater likelihood of falling and injuring yourself.
I can only see one good reason for an operation - If she constantly trips over her her labia.
No. Them labia are the center of gravity... for some men.
Sometimes. How is that wrong?
(Now, I would not want to hear the female complaints if it weren't ever once in a while!)
then you probably wont end up with such a problem
unless you are unusually small or large.
after all, labia size is irrelevant to sexual enjoyment, penis size is not.
So you say.
Well let's not forget about our tounges...
Hello!
oh
my
god
what kind of man could DO that to his most precious body part?
*wimpers* That mental image was not pleasant at all.
I'm not really sure what a labia is...but that surgery sounds weird.
Oh my - the innocence... No worries, just remember: That kind of surgery is absolutely unnecessary (unless there really is a medical indication or whatnot)
You know what else is bizarre? Anal bleaching.
Oh please! What the hell is wrong with people?

*snip*

Huh? It looks like I'm the only poster in the thread who you didn't reply to?

But since your response to the winning post WYTYG's plausible explanation (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12695392&postcount=19) was "What the hell?" I don't suppose I missed much.

People are made of crazy. Crazt coated crazy with crazy filling.

Well, perhaps I should consider cosmetic brain-surgery:

Male, single, 43. Seeks casual friendship possibly leading to better things. No kids, non-smoker, social drinker. Great sense of humour, only laugh when appropriate. No critical faculties whatsoever, I can be trained like a puppy. Robbing banks not out of the question if that's your thing.

Huh? It looks like I'm the only poster in the thread who you didn't reply to?
But since your response to the winning post WYTYG's plausible explanation (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12695392&postcount=19) was "What the hell?" I don't suppose I missed much.
Well, I honestly didn't know what to say to regulating porn. I don't really like that idea and I like my porn the way it is.
After all, I know it's fake, so it ain't influential. *shrugs* As long as it fulfills its purpose...?

And yes, WYTYG had a nice post - my comment was more along along the lines "Oh, is that why things are the way they are?". ;)

*...*

And yes, WYTYG had a nice post - my comment was more along along the lines "Oh, is that why things are the way they are?". ;)

I found it a compelling explanation for what would otherwise just be sad. And the possibility that a publisher's self-regulation could eventually lead to people surgically altering their bodies (conforming to an aesthetic of almost random origin, the interpretation of the word "discrete") rather fascinating.

Almost hopeful. Far from wanting to define political correctness for porn, I see the benefit of a light touch in this explanation ... a non-binding guideline, a company which wants to sell soft-core as respectably as possible, years later an aesthetic founded in that non-binding guideline. If we could consider consequences twenty or thirty years later, there'd be a lot less need for banning or propaganda. A well-worded hint could be all it takes.

Oh, and your outrage is noted. You are normal ;)

I found it a compelling explanation for what would otherwise just be sad. And the possibility that a publisher's self-regulation could eventually lead to people surgically altering their bodies (conforming to an aesthetic of almost random origin, the interpretation of the word "discrete") rather fascinating.
Well, it is interesting - and yet sad at the same time.

I've never been a person who's interested in fashion trends - and I'm damn proud of that, too. ;)
Almost hopeful. Far from wanting to define political correctness for porn, I see the benefit of a light touch in this explanation ... a non-binding guideline, a company which wants to sell soft-core as respectably as possible, years later an aesthetic founded in that non-binding guideline. If we could consider consequences twenty or thirty years later, there'd be a lot less need for banning or propaganda. A well-worded hint could be all it takes.
Only weak-minded people are easily influenced by that, though.
Oh, and your outrage is noted. You are normal ;)
Hehehe - you have no idea.
Besides, what is "normal" nowadays?

It is a woman's right to alter her genitals if she wants. However, I must say, this is fucking stupid.

Every woman has a slightly different vulva. I don't get this whole flattening thing. I find labia that are flared out and somewhat engorged due to arousal extremely intoxicating. I don't know why these women think that the shape of their genitalia somehow makes them look bad. I find it really, truly sad, actually.

I'm glad my ladyfriend would never do something like this.

Oh my - the innocence... No worries, just remember: That kind of surgery is absolutely unnecessary (unless there really is a medical indication or whatnot)


Ok. Well, I figured that it was unnecessary in most cases. I just didn't know anything about what they were having reduced...other than its vague location of being somewhere "down there".

You must have forgotten, you were pretty involved in the thread (given its short life span). It's really long ago, though.

And again, I couldn't agree more.
I mean, really, it was only a matter of time. One can only see so many naked or half-naked people (I'm thinking celebrities here for the latter :p) that look exactly the same and are seen as the epitome of beauty that we should aspire to and NOT start comparing oneself with them.

And people were saying I was full of shit when I said so in the last thread, but I actually think that that friend of yours you quoted is not one in a million. There are so many kids practically growing up with internet porn galore (and not Pinup Playboy style porn, but close-up crotch action) - considering that's gonna be the ONLY place where they see naked women for quite a few years (in the US ,they don't even see them on TV and/or movies) they HAVE to think that's what women look like! Maybe not the balloon-like Double E silicone breasts, but most of the other stuff. Like that all women come without pubic hair. Or that all breasts stay upright when she lies on her back. Stuff like that.

[/pet peeve rant]
They don't? They should come up with a device, or piece of clothing or something, that would hold them up and together...

(this really is the big drawback of the fake booby, half the fun of the booby is that it's soft and you can move it around and stuff...)...(hehe...booby...)

Heh, it's the sort of thread to attract me (as can be seen by the fact that I'm here), so I'll believe you. My memory, while amazing at pulling up lyrics to crappy pop songs I heard fifteen years ago, is not so great at remembering actual interesting conversations. :p



Indeed, I agree. The guy in question may be an extreme case (at least I hope he is!), but I've met many people with what seem to be porn-based perceptions of how the opposite gender is "supposed" to look and act. It's kind of sad and frustrating, because there's no real way to fix it. I mean, we could run around yelling, "Porn is not realistic! At all! Real people do not look or act like that!" but we'd probably get some rather funny looks.
Porn isn't supposed to be real, if it was real we wouldn't need porn. We don't really want a porn world. If I deliver a pizza to some chick who tries to pay me with a blowjob that'd be weird and I'd get fired. But if it happens in a movie that I touch myself funny while watching, cool.
You know, this really bothers me, because these women are being convinced there's something wrong with normal genetic variation, and are having part of their genitals CUT OFF. Most of the pleasure a woman feels is from external stimulation, as the vaginal canal is rather lacking in nerves once you get past the first inch or so.

This isn't healthy, and honestly, I think it's stupid. If your man thinks your pussy is ugly, it's time to find a different man.
Usually when you've gotten that far it's hard to think anything other than, "There are a few things I'd like to put in there."
if your man thinks your pussy is ugly he either isnt really into you or he's gay.

most likely gay.

no man should be so jaded that he has high standards for pussy shape.
Or really really really finicky...

I seriously doubt that most women scream and shriek during intercourse.
Some of my old roommate's girlfriends beg to differ.
well some women have standards for penis length...
touche
oh those male surgeries to increase girth are very prone to horrifically bad results.

if a man is so large that its a struggle to fit inside a woman, its a problem. if the man is so very small that its hard to feel him inside at all, its a problem

the vast majority of men are neither too small nor too large. for them, its all technique.
And this is why I have conducting baton patterns pinned above the head board. "You like that, you like that 4/4? How about some 6/8? Get ready for Cut Time..."



Did I just nerd out and creep out in one sentence? Go me...

Ok...I'm still a bit confused though...

Don't worry...I used to be confused about it too:):cool:

It is a woman's right to alter her genitals if she wants.
I never questioned their right to do so - with their own money, that is. Not via the public healthcare system.
However, I must say, this is fucking stupid.
Absolutely!
Every woman has a slightly different vulva. I don't get this whole flattening thing. I find labia that are flared out and somewhat engorged due to arousal extremely intoxicating. I don't know why these women think that the shape of their genitalia somehow makes them look bad. I find it really, truly sad, actually.
I so know what you mean! :) Same here. ;) If I may say so - I like big labias. :D (Actually, I like labias... :p)
I'm glad my ladyfriend would never do something like this.
I'm sure mine wouldn't either.
Ok. Well, I figured that it was unnecessary in most cases. I just didn't know anything about what they were having reduced...other than its vague location of being somewhere "down there".
While I certainly could explain - I sure won't. (I already somehow dread the day when I'm in front of a class of teenagers and will have to explain it to them... :eek:)
"Down there" is fine if you don't want to know more. ;)

My small vulva brings all the boys to yard. Damn right, it's smaller than yours.

I'd refer you to my surgeon, but I'd have to charge.

While I certainly could explain - I sure won't. (I already somehow dread the day when I'm in front of a class of teenagers and will have to explain it to them... :eek:)
"Down there" is fine if you don't want to know more. ;)

Ok. Thanks.:)

Don't worry...I used to be confused about it too:):cool:

It's you! :eek: :)

It's you! :eek: :)[/QUOTE]

yes I know....its me!!:D:headbang:;)

Porn isn't supposed to be real, if it was real we wouldn't need porn. We don't really want a porn world. If I deliver a pizza to some chick who tries to pay me with a blowjob that'd be weird and I'd get fired. But if it happens in a movie that I touch myself funny while watching, cool.

Oh, agreed. Hence why it's sad when anyone believes porn to be in any way realistic, and why I can't think of any way to prevent this from happening (since, y'know, if you made porn realistic, then it wouldn't exactly be porn anymore).

And this is why I have conducting baton patterns pinned above the head board. "You like that, you like that 4/4? How about some 6/8? Get ready for Cut Time..."

*sporfle*

Speaking as someone who has dated two conductors and who was, until this moment, seriously considering getting an MFA in choral conducting: I hate you. I am never, ever going to be able to keep a straight face when conducting again, and it's ALL YOUR FAULT. :p

Do you mean that, for 60 years, I've been completely oblivious to this important aspect of being female? Oh the shame.

They don't? They should come up with a device, or piece of clothing or something, that would hold them up and together...
I wonder why nobody before you has thought of that! You could become rich!!!
(this really is the big drawback of the fake booby, half the fun of the booby is that it's soft and you can move it around and stuff...)...(hehe...booby...)
It is - and from first-hand (teehee!) experience I can tell you: It's not nice. Good from far, far from good.
Porn isn't supposed to be real, if it was real we wouldn't need porn. We don't really want a porn world. If I deliver a pizza to some chick who tries to pay me with a blowjob that'd be weird and I'd get fired. But if it happens in a movie that I touch myself funny while watching, cool.
Yup!
Usually when you've gotten that far it's hard to think anything other than, "There are a few things I'd like to put in there."
At a certain point I stop thinking entirely. :D
Or really really really finicky...
Gah. Or simply an idiot!
Some of my old roommate's girlfriends beg to differ.
Hehe... screamers.
And this is why I have conducting baton patterns pinned above the head board. "You like that, you like that 4/4? How about some 6/8? Get ready for Cut Time..."
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/conductorbean.gif
Did I just nerd out and creep out in one sentence? Go me...
Yes... Yes, you did.
Oh, agreed. Hence why it's sad when anyone believes porn to be in any way realistic, and why I can't think of any way to prevent this from happening (since, y'know, if you made porn realistic, then it wouldn't exactly be porn anymore).
Nor would I want to watch it.
Speaking as someone who has dated two conductors and who was, until this moment, seriously considering getting an MFA in choral conducting: I hate you. I am never, ever going to be able to keep a straight face when conducting again, and it's ALL YOUR FAULT. :p
Maybe it would help if you pictured the people naked? No? Aw well. :p
Do you mean that, for 60 years, I've been completely oblivious to this important aspect of being female? Oh the shame.
Uh-oh! Guess it's too late to change your ways now?

Ok. Well, I figured that it was unnecessary in most cases. I just didn't know anything about what they were having reduced...other than its vague location of being somewhere "down there".

You've got one, hon. If you want to knw more, all you need is a hand-held mirror.

Sreiously, I had to laugh reading the OP. A sort of sad, pityful laugh.

While the idea of wanting to correct my labia (of all things that COULD be corrected about me!!!) strikes me as extremely silly, I don't really doubt that there are many women out there insecure enough about themselves to actually do that. Which is sad. And there's probably a good few guys out there who wanked their brains out watching porn and now confuse it with reality who would make snide remarks about the shape and size, and actually encourage her to get surgical treatment, instead of helping her work up some self-esteem and self-acceptance. Which is even sadder.
The only thing that's even sadder and more ridiculous is women who get their hymen surgically restored....

Seriously, though, pussies seem to come in almost all shapes and sizes, and that's just fine with me. As long as they're clean and shaved :D

...would think of something like this?

I find this to be extremely disturbing:

According to their article, "more and more women are said to be troubled by the shape, size or proportions of their vulvas," turning the operation into a "booming business." Although precise figures aren't available, an apparent trend is emerging. In 2004 and 2005, the British National Health Service performed 800 labial reductions -- six times as many as in 1998 and 1999. Meanwhile, the number of privately financed operations is unknown.

Seriously, what the hell?

Labial reductions? That is insane! Why would anyone want to have that done?!?

"Hey Doc! I'd like to have bigger boobs and a smaller cootie, please!"

(Link: http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,485045,00.html )
Well yeah your first mistake is trying to coresponde woman and who in their right mind...
Women are mental.
This is pretty old, the first i read about this sort of stuff was in The Godfather Part III, then i heard Carmen Electra was getting her galley hole readjusted and yeah it's been about the place.
But also got herself a new hymen too.
Dennis Rodman really broke her nether regions.
This type of rubbish probably gets paid for by the tax payer here too.:(
*looks up "vulva"*

ooooh right...erm people are dumb just look at all the guys who now have freakishly deformed penises and yet we still have folk taking the surgery

us men should take a stand and demand massive do-dars!
LOL.

You've got one, hon. If you want to knw more, all you need is a hand-held mirror.

I don't want to look down there at all. It's too gross-looking to me.

So uhmm I am pretty sure that I am not alone when I say that... that is quite possibly the most beautiful thing on the planet... regardless of how it looks (as long as it is healthy...).
Or maybe as a male my opinion is biased because I am genetically and chemically inclined to enjoy the site of it?

Anyway... I think that unless its for an important reason such as reconstruction of your face, or getting a genetic problem such as a split pallete fixed plastic surgery is unecesary.

Was watching "Never mind the Buzzcocks" on the beeb one night. They were slagging off Vanessa Feltz (as you do) for having 'plastic surgery' live on TV during a low point (have there been highs?) in her career....They showed a (thankfully not too explicit) clip.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_bleaching

Why the jaysus not just keep the lights low.....

I don't want to look down there at all. It's too gross-looking to me.
:(
So uhmm I am pretty sure that I am not alone when I say that... that is quite possibly the most beautiful thing on the planet... regardless of how it looks (as long as it is healthy...).
Or maybe as a male my opinion is biased because I am genetically and chemically inclined to enjoy the site of it?
Probably. But I hail from the same corner. ;)
Anyway... I think that unless its for an important reason such as reconstruction of your face, or getting a genetic problem such as a split pallete fixed plastic surgery is unecesary.
I can only agree! Even age has its beauty. (And no, I don't mean that in a creepy way.)
Was watching "Never mind the Buzzcocks" on the beeb one night. They were slagging off Vanessa Feltz (as you do) for having 'plastic surgery' live on TV during a low point (have there been highs?) in her career....They showed a (thankfully not too explicit) clip.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_bleaching

Why the jaysus not just keep the lights low.....
Why not simply accept and enjoy things the way they are?

I don't want to look down there at all. It's too gross-looking to me.

Well, that's the eye of the beholder for you. Personally, I can't think of anything more beautiful. Even cocks (much as I love them) take second place.

So uhmm I am pretty sure that I am not alone when I say that... that is quite possibly the most beautiful thing on the planet... regardless of how it looks (as long as it is healthy...).
Or maybe as a male my opinion is biased because I am genetically and chemically inclined to enjoy the site of it?


Nah, I'm female and I totally agree with you :)

I can't think of anything more beautiful.
:fluffle: 100% agreement there.

Oh! This thread is about OUTER labia! Suddenly everything makes much more sense then it did before...

Oh! This thread is about OUTER labia! Suddenly everything makes much more sense then it did before...
Uh...no, sorry.

:(

:( It just looks so ugly and gross to me.

:fluffle: 100% agreement there.

second that 100%

I don't want to look down there at all. It's too gross-looking to me.

You keep saying things like this!

To be honest I believe you are just seeking attention, but if you are genuine in the "OMG I can't look/OMG I can't believe it/OMG I'm talking about it agin/OMG no it's really there" stuff then ... sorry, no offence ... you need therapy.

I had psychotherapy last friday. A lot of people here would agree that I need it. It is my officially-crazy opinion that you need therapy. Go see a doctor.

:( It just looks so ugly and gross to me.

you dont have to find your genitals attractive but you should familiarize yourself with how they look. as a responsible owner of your own body its your duty to become familiar with its structure, function and proper maintenence.

so yeah, you should get a hand mirror, lock your bedroom door and take a good look. identify all the different parts.

if you dont know how things look and feel when they are "right" you wont be able to tell when something goes wrong.

Uh...no, sorry.

GODDAMMIT! I meant inner labia...


The curse is directed at my mistyping, not you.

1. Many women have no idea what they look like "down there" unlike most guys. So I think on the one hand, it's cool that women are aware of their bodies.
2. This also sort of disturbs me, not only because of the standard body image cosmetic surgery issues, but also because it is reminiscent of female genital mutilation. I mean so many people HAVE to undergo removal of their clitoris/labia/vulva etc. in certain countries, and so many young girls run away from their towns to avoid such procedures...so it sort of boggles my mind that in the "developed" world, people are voluntarily paying people to do such things to them.

GODDAMMIT! I meant inner labia...


The curse is directed at my mistyping, not you.

It still doesn't make any more sense, though. I don't understand what could possibly be objectionable to large, or unevenly-sized labia. And even less why a woman would want parts of them removed for aesthetic reasons. As far as I'm concerened, they are a part of my body that's incredibly sensitive and responsible for a whole array of absolutely wonderful feelings. The thought to have parts of them snipped off so as to be more appealing to men is ... well, so absurd that words fail me, really.
It's the equivalent of cutting off part of your tongue to look better... sure, some deranged people might prefer the look, but you won't ever be able to taste "sweet" again!!! :headbang:

...would think of something like this?

I find this to be extremely disturbing:

According to their article, "more and more women are said to be troubled by the shape, size or proportions of their vulvas," turning the operation into a "booming business." Although precise figures aren't available, an apparent trend is emerging. In 2004 and 2005, the British National Health Service performed 800 labial reductions -- six times as many as in 1998 and 1999. Meanwhile, the number of privately financed operations is unknown.

Seriously, what the hell?

Labial reductions? That is insane! Why would anyone want to have that done?!?

"Hey Doc! I'd like to have bigger boobs and a smaller cootie, please!"

(Link: http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,485045,00.html )

Maybe so the guys won't follow them as much? :p

It still doesn't make any more sense, though.

- snip-

I think what Zarakon meant with the "it finally makes sense" is that he finally understood what exactly we were talking about (inner, not outer labia), not that he thought the surgery makes sense.

you dont have to find your genitals attractive but you should familiarize yourself with how they look. as a responsible owner of your own body its your duty to become familiar with its structure, function and proper maintenence.

so yeah, you should get a hand mirror, lock your bedroom door and take a good look. identify all the different parts.

if you dont know how things look and feel when they are "right" you wont be able to tell when something goes wrong.

That's a good point. Something could go wrong and I probably wouldn't be able to tell unless it hurt or something. But I'm afraid to look at it. It just seems like something that I'm not supposed to know about.

You keep saying things like this!

To be honest I believe you are just seeking attention, but if you are genuine in the "OMG I can't look/OMG I can't believe it/OMG I'm talking about it agin/OMG no it's really there" stuff then ... sorry, no offence ... you need therapy.

I had psychotherapy last friday. A lot of people here would agree that I need it. It is my officially-crazy opinion that you need therapy. Go see a doctor.

Sorry to talk about things that bother me when they come up. This is something that has been bothering me lately a lot. I know I need therapy. I've been getting therapy, but I'm too nervous to talk about something like this when I'm face to face with someone. And I don't see my therapist as often as I used to anymore because it seems like some of my other issues are getting better.

That's a good point. Something could go wrong and I probably wouldn't be able to tell unless it hurt or something. But I'm afraid to look at it. It just seems like something that I'm not supposed to know about.


Maybe it isn't. I don't want to scare you now, but have you ever considered that you might be transgendered?


Sorry to talk about things that bother me when they come up. This is something that has been bothering me lately a lot. I know I need therapy. I've been getting therapy, but I'm too nervous to talk about something like this when I'm face to face with someone. And I don't see my therapist as often as I used to anymore because it seems like some of my other issues are getting better.

It can be very hard and emotional to talk about personal problems face to face. I personally find it's a lot easier to do so in a chat, or in any other kind of written form. Are there any possibilities of getting additional counceling online?
Oh, and it's a forum. No matter what you post, people WILL eventually attack you for it.

That's a good point. Something could go wrong and I probably wouldn't be able to tell unless it hurt or something. But I'm afraid to look at it. It just seems like something that I'm not supposed to know about.


i remember the feeling from when i was closer to your age.

the thing is that you have to grow up and get over it. you dont have to learn to love the way your genitals look, you have to act like an adult in taking care of your own body even if it feels creepy at first.

you should perhaps start by looking up some educational sites on the female reproductive system so you know whats there and where it should be and what it probably looks like.

forcing yourself to do the yucky things is what being a adult is about.

No matter what you post, people WILL eventually attack you for it.

:eek: No they won't!! :mad:

*Attacks Cabra for that outrageous statement!*


...

Oh

Nevermind...

*Flees* :p

:eek: No they won't!! :mad:

*Attacks Cabra for that outrageous statement!*


...

Oh

Nevermind...

*Flees* :p

*attacks Gravlen for attacking Cabra*
So turns the circle of life.

Maybe it isn't. I don't want to scare you now, but have you ever considered that you might be transgendered?



It can be very hard and emotional to talk about personal problems face to face. I personally find it's a lot easier to do so in a chat, or in any other kind of written form. Are there any possibilities of getting additional counceling online?
Oh, and it's a forum. No matter what you post, people WILL eventually attack you for it.

I don't know.

I don't think so.

Anyway, I'm going to send you a TG soon. I don't want to hijack this thread anymore or anything.

:( It just looks so ugly and gross to me.

You keep saying things like this!

To be honest I believe you are just seeking attention, but if you are genuine in the "OMG I can't look/OMG I can't believe it/OMG I'm talking about it agin/OMG no it's really there" stuff then ... sorry, no offence ... you need therapy.

I had psychotherapy last friday. A lot of people here would agree that I need it. It is my officially-crazy opinion that you need therapy. Go see a doctor.

Leave Chandelier alone!:mad::headbang: I think its weird too.:confused:

*attacks Gravlen for attacking Cabra*
So turns the circle of life.

Indeed. It escalates quckly (http://youtube.com/watch?v=va2siioYqjc) :)

Leave Chandelier alone!:mad::headbang: I think its weird too.:confused:

You think it's weird to be familiar with your own body for the purpose of making sure you're healthy?

1. Many women have no idea what they look like "down there" unlike most guys. So I think on the one hand, it's cool that women are aware of their bodies.
2. This also sort of disturbs me, not only because of the standard body image cosmetic surgery issues, but also because it is reminiscent of female genital mutilation. I mean so many people HAVE to undergo removal of their clitoris/labia/vulva etc. in certain countries, and so many young girls run away from their towns to avoid such procedures...so it sort of boggles my mind that in the "developed" world, people are voluntarily paying people to do such things to them.
I can only agree. ;)
You think it's weird to be familiar with your own body for the purpose of making sure you're healthy?
I was thinking along the same lines but didn't dare voice it. ;)

Leave Chandelier alone!:mad::headbang: I think its weird too.:confused:

I'm rather afraid you're right. Just about the first thing I thought this morning was "oh no, I didn't say that did I?"
My post was unnecessarily personal, and it mixed a negative characterization in with 'advice' in a most unhelpful way ... I'm thoroughly ashamed of it. The way Chandelier found a positive note in it and ignored the rest is exemplary.

Oh and she didn't do the awful Harpo Marx thing you just did either :p

You think it's weird to be familiar with your own body for the purpose of making sure you're healthy?

I'm familiar with my own body and I know its healthy, thank you.:p It's kinda weird thinking about it. :mad: If you think I'm weird, then thats YOUR
problem, not mine.:p:gundge:

I'm familiar with my own body and I know its healthy, thank you.:p It's kinda weird thinking about it. :mad: If you think I'm weird, then thats YOUR
problem, not mine.:p:gundge:

Don't get defensive; I was just asking a question. Several of my former roommates knew nothing of their reproductive system, internally or externally, and they all seemed to get pretty pissed off when it was even suggested that they either look themselves or ask questions of a medical professional when the time comes. And yes, your hesitance to explore your own body does seem strange to me, but that is likely due to my familiarity and extreme comfort with both my own body and sexuality.

Perhaps you feel thinking about it is weird because of some cultural or societal influence. You wouldn't be the first.

I'm rather afraid you're right. Just about the first thing I thought this morning was "oh no, I didn't say that did I?"
My post was unnecessarily personal, and it mixed a negative characterization in with 'advice' in a most unhelpful way ... I'm thoroughly ashamed of it. The way Chandelier found a positive note in it and ignored the rest is exemplary.

Oh and she didn't do the awful Harpo Marx thing you just did either :p

It's ok. :) But thanks.

By the way, Singing Phancat is my best friend in real life. :)

*...*

By the way, Singing Phancat is my best friend in real life. :)

Being a genius, I can detect things like that.
Being a nutter, I sometimes detect stuff that isn't there.

I'm really sorry ... I was drunk and way out of line. This whole thread should probably be girls-only, so I really will shut up now.

I know I need therapy. I've been getting therapy, but I'm too nervous to talk about something like this when I'm face to face with someone.

A suggestion, and something I've done myself for tough-to-talk-about issues: write your thoughts down. Use whatever format works for you - a letter, a journal entry, a list of bullet points, a poem, whatever - and bring it with you to therapy. Tell your therapist that you have some issues you want to deal with, but that you find them scary to discuss, and hand her your note. You can even ask her to read it later and talk with you about it next session, if you feel like watching her read your thoughts would be too embarrassing.

Being a genius, I can detect things like that.
Being a nutter, I sometimes detect stuff that isn't there.
That feels very familiar!
This whole thread should probably be girls-only, so I really will shut up now.
Hey! I'm a guy... :D
A suggestion, and something I've done myself for tough-to-talk-about issues: write your thoughts down. Use whatever format works for you - a letter, a journal entry, a list of bullet points, a poem, whatever - and bring it with you to therapy. Tell your therapist that you have some issues you want to deal with, but that you find them scary to discuss, and hand her your note. You can even ask her to read it later and talk with you about it next session, if you feel like watching her read your thoughts would be too embarrassing.
That is very good advice. I know it has worked for me. ;)

Don't get defensive; I was just asking a question. Several of my former roommates knew nothing of their reproductive system, internally or externally, and they all seemed to get pretty pissed off when it was even suggested that they either look themselves or ask questions of a medical professional when the time comes. And yes, your hesitance to explore your own body does seem strange to me, but that is likely due to my familiarity and extreme comfort with both my own body and sexuality.

Perhaps you feel thinking about it is weird because of some cultural or societal influence. You wouldn't be the first.

I wasn't really trying to get defensive....I guess I just came across sounding that way..:headbang: Yep, try stupid societal influence:cool:

It's ok. :) But thanks.

By the way, Singing Phancat is my best friend in real life. :)

Yep, it is true!!:D:):cool:

I wasn't really trying to get defensive....I guess I just came across sounding that way..:headbang: Yep, try stupid societal influence:cool:

Totally understandable. Thanks for the clarification.

Good on them! Vulva's are freaking scary anyway! :eek:

Good on them! Vulva's are freaking scary anyway! :eek:

Buh? :confused:

I dread the day when it comes fashionable to split the pecker down the middle or something as weird.
ow! ow! owowowowowowow!

*cringes severely*

Good on them! Vulva's are freaking scary anyway! :eek:
That is your opinion.
I don't share it at all. :D
ow! ow! owowowowowowow!

*cringes severely*
Exactly.

That is your opinion.
I don't share it at all. :D

Neither do I. (Licks one)

Neither do I.
Good for you.
(Licks one)
Now you're just making things up!

I dread the day when it comes fashionable to split the pecker down the middle or something as weird.



Well, there IS this (http://www.ishiboo.com/~nirva/Mods/tonguesplit/tongue_split.jpg)....




Don't click on that link if you're just eating of drinking something.

Well, there IS this (http://www.ishiboo.com/~nirva/Mods/tonguesplit/tongue_split.jpg)....




Don't click on that link if you're just eating of drinking something.
I also rather distinctly remember from some other unfortunate thread that there is, indeed, a pecker split down the middle, too... >.<

I also rather distinctly remember from some other unfortunate thread that there is, indeed, a pecker split down the middle, too... >.<
some one actually did it?! :eek:!

:headbang:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h157/PlutonianEmpire/egads.jpg

I also rather distinctly remember from some other unfortunate thread that there is, indeed, a pecker split down the middle, too... >.<

This post has greatly upset my genitals.

This post has greatly upset my genitals.
No kidding. >.<

This post has greatly upset my genitals.

For some reason, this seems like some kind of Zen saying. I have no clue why I got this impression, as it doesn't sound anything like one. But can't you just see it?

Young Apprentice: Master, what is the true answer to life?
Master: That is for you to discover, grasshopper.
Young Apprentice: Could you stop making Kung Fu references and at least give me a hint?
Master: This post has greatly upset my genitals.
Young Apprentice: I see...
Master: Wanna try to snatch this pebble out of my hand?
Young Apprentice: Fuck off.

Good for you.

Now you're just making things up!

Thanks. But can't I dream?

Thanks. But can't I dream?

No. Shadow Government Ordinance #57,824 specifically prohibits all attempts, physical, social, emotional, psychological, or mental to escape from their crushing regime.

Which doesn't exist, by the way.

For some reason, this seems like some kind of Zen saying. I have no clue why I got this impression, as it doesn't sound anything like one. But can't you just see it?

Young Apprentice: Master, what is the true answer to life?
Master: That is for you to discover, grasshopper.
Young Apprentice: Could you stop making Kung Fu references and at least give me a hint?
Master: This post has greatly upset my genitals.
Young Apprentice: I see...
Master: Wanna try to snatch this pebble out of my hand?
Young Apprentice: Fuck off.

It is a Zen saying. It came to me when exploring the zen of drinking alone.

It is a Zen saying. It came to me when exploring the zen of drinking alone.

A good Zen, that one.

Well, there IS this (http://www.ishiboo.com/~nirva/Mods/tonguesplit/tongue_split.jpg)....
Don't click on that link if you're just eating of drinking something.
Gah. That one is speaking with a split tongue!

(I would not enjoy going down with such a tongue.)
I also rather distinctly remember from some other unfortunate thread that there is, indeed, a pecker split down the middle, too... >.<
Yikes. ><
I was just making that up.
some one actually did it?! :eek:!
:headbang:
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h157/PlutonianEmpire/egads.jpg
I share that notion. When you're done - can I have the grater?

(Oh dear! That just gave me another bad mental image... Argh!)
This post has greatly upset my genitals.
Dito!
For some reason, this seems like some kind of Zen saying. I have no clue why I got this impression, as it doesn't sound anything like one. But can't you just see it?
Yes.http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/MeditatingSmiley.gif
Young Apprentice: Master, what is the true answer to life?
Master: That is for you to discover, grasshopper.
Young Apprentice: Could you stop making Kung Fu references and at least give me a hint?
Master: This post has greatly upset my genitals.
Young Apprentice: I see...
Master: Wanna try to snatch this pebble out of my hand?
Young Apprentice: Fuck off.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/Pergament.jpg
Thanks. But can't I dream?
Johnny, my friend - great things start out with a dream. So dream on! And make sure to do it right. ;)
It is a Zen saying. It came to me when exploring the zen of drinking alone.
A good Zen, that one.
http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/jap.gif

On the positive side, they can donate the off-cuts to burn victims who have lost their ears.

Here's a related article talking about how porn imagery affects sexual expectations within established relationships, in case anyone's interested (sorry, I couldn't find the original SMH article):

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4075846a19716.html

Here's a related article talking about how porn imagery affects sexual expectations within established relationships, in case anyone's interested (sorry, I couldn't find the original SMH article):

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4075846a19716.html

That page doesn't load.


Meh, I love porn and so does my BF. We like watching porn together. And neither of us would ever be stupid enough to expect the other one to be like a porn star. We're both happy, swinging sluts, with no reason to change.

That page doesn't load.

The link is valid; but I finally found the original article on the Sydney Morning Herald, so try this one (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/how-porn-is-wrecking-relationships/2007/05/25/1179601669144.html).

Meh, I love porn and so does my BF. We like watching porn together. And neither of us would ever be stupid enough to expect the other one to be like a porn star. We're both happy, swinging sluts, with no reason to change.

Oh, I didn't put the article there as a trojan attack on porn, believe me. :)

Rather, the article deals in particular with secretive and/or compulsive use of porn to the point where idealised imagery becomes "necessary" for sexual release (eg. the woman no longer feels able to live up to expectations - idealised vulvas are specifically mentioned as an example), resulting in the eventual breakdown of relationships.

The link is valid; but I finally found the original article on the Sydney Morning Herald, so try this one (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/how-porn-is-wrecking-relationships/2007/05/25/1179601669144.html).



Oh, I didn't put the article there as a trojan attack on porn, believe me. :)

Rather, the article deals in particular with secretive and/or compulsive use of porn to the point where idealised imagery becomes "necessary" for sexual release (eg. the woman no longer feels able to live up to expectations - idealised vulvas are specifically mentioned as an example), resulting in the eventual breakdown of relationships.

I think this : " ...internet pornography is becoming yet another outlet for those with pre-existing compulsive personalities..." sums it up rather nicely :D

The problem's not porn, it's pre-existing personality disorders ;)

Un-shutting up for a moment, Adele Horin (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/how-porn-is-wrecking-relationships/2007/05/25/1179601669144.html) is great. In my unprofessional opinion, one of the ten best journos in Australia.

That page doesn't load.


Meh, I love porn and so does my BF. We like watching porn together. And neither of us would ever be stupid enough to expect the other one to be like a porn star. We're both happy, swinging sluts, with no reason to change.

Sounds like you already are like porn stars.......


:p

Sounds like you already are like porn stars.......


:p

Nope. But just because we're not selling the pics and clips :p

On the positive side, they can donate the off-cuts to burn victims who have lost their ears.
Nah, we have the mice for that...
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39322000/jpg/_39322913_ear_mouse_bbc_203.jpg
The link is valid; but I finally found the original article on the Sydney Morning Herald, so try this one (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/how-porn-is-wrecking-relationships/2007/05/25/1179601669144.html).
Oh, I didn't put the article there as a trojan attack on porn, believe me. :)
Rather, the article deals in particular with secretive and/or compulsive use of porn to the point where idealised imagery becomes "necessary" for sexual release (eg. the woman no longer feels able to live up to expectations - idealised vulvas are specifically mentioned as an example), resulting in the eventual breakdown of relationships.
So because people are stupid and insecure porn is bad? I laugh at that article. :D
I think this : " ...internet pornography is becoming yet another outlet for those with pre-existing compulsive personalities..." sums it up rather nicely :D
The problem's not porn, it's pre-existing personality disorders ;)
Yes, it does - and yes, it is. :p

Vaginaoplasty is also popular, and usually involves tightening up the vaginal canal, as well as shortening its depth.

For women whose men are built like a pencil that's been sharpened too many times, and who can't feel whether he's in or not...

Vaginaoplasty is also popular, and usually involves tightening up the vaginal canal, as well as shortening its depth.

For women whose men are built like a pencil that's been sharpened too many times, and who can't feel whether he's in or not...
Right - and the next one is hung like a horse. And then what? Dig a new tunnel?

Nah...

Johnny, my friend - great things start out with a dream. So dream on! And make sure to do it right. ;)

I'll think of that when I find my first subject.

No. Shadow Government Ordinance #57,824 specifically prohibits all attempts, physical, social, emotional, psychological, or mental to escape from their crushing regime.

Which doesn't exist, by the way.

Damn you Catch-22 users.

...would think of something like this?

I find this to be extremely disturbing:

According to their article, "more and more women are said to be troubled by the shape, size or proportions of their vulvas," turning the operation into a "booming business." Although precise figures aren't available, an apparent trend is emerging. In 2004 and 2005, the British National Health Service performed 800 labial reductions -- six times as many as in 1998 and 1999. Meanwhile, the number of privately financed operations is unknown.

Seriously, what the hell?

Labial reductions? That is insane! Why would anyone want to have that done?!?

"Hey Doc! I'd like to have bigger boobs and a smaller cootie, please!"

(Link: http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,485045,00.html )
you would be surprised at the variations. There is this big thing looming over women to be "normal" but more than that to be "better". I saw a site once that had all sorts of pictures of vulvae to illustrate that there are wide variations that are all normal........I didn't find a single one on there (in the 800 pictures I looked at) that looked exactly the same, in fact I didn't even find one that looked similar to mine.....leaving me feeling insecure.

I wouldn't have surgery, I have come to think all of my body is attractive now, but for a split second I considered that things I once thought were normal were somehow deformed......

you would be surprised at the variations.
Hehe, actually, no - I'm not. :p
There is this big thing looming over women to be "normal" but more than that to be "better". I saw a site once that had all sorts of pictures of vulvae to illustrate that there are wide variations that are all normal........I didn't find a single one on there (in the 800 pictures I looked at) that looked exactly the same, in fact I didn't even find one that looked similar to mine.....leaving me feeling insecure.
And that's the thing I have a hard time understanding. Why not simply accept the way one is? I got the feeling that especially women have a hard time with that.
I wouldn't have surgery, I have come to think all of my body is attractive now, but for a split second I considered that things I once thought were normal were somehow deformed......
I'm glad to hear that - minus the split second, that is. ;)

On the NHS? I pay my damned taxes for that? It doesn't even benefit me!


I guess that you are able to think of an event linked to a vulva that COULD benefit you.;)

Unless you're a male homosexual, that is, of course.

To be honest, it seems as silly as men obsessing about the size of their package. So, very silly indeed...

And that's the thing I have a hard time understanding. Why not simply accept the way one is? I got the feeling that especially women have a hard time with that.


Well, I for one can tell you that parents, friends, family, teachers and even total strangers will go out of their way to insult and bully you if they think you don't look the way they think you should look. It took me several decades to finally like me the way I am, and that was without knowing that my labia don't look like other women's.

Nope. But just because we're not selling the pics and clips :p

Wow! You're giving them FOR FREE? :D

;)

Nothing like sex to cause a healthy laughter.

Wow! You're giving them FOR FREE? :D

;)



Only to very, very close friends ;) :p

you would be surprised at the variations. There is this big thing looming over women to be "normal" but more than that to be "better". I saw a site once that had all sorts of pictures of vulvae to illustrate that there are wide variations that are all normal........I didn't find a single one on there (in the 800 pictures I looked at) that looked exactly the same, in fact I didn't even find one that looked similar to mine.....leaving me feeling insecure.

I wouldn't have surgery, I have come to think all of my body is attractive now, but for a split second I considered that things I once thought were normal were somehow deformed......

I've seen countless vulvas in person, live. Not one was the same as the other. I believe personally that they are like fingerprints.

Haven't met one I didn't like, either.

And you know, if you've seen one, you want to see the rest of them.

Well, there IS this (http://www.ishiboo.com/~nirva/Mods/tonguesplit/tongue_split.jpg)....
[/SIZE]

YEEEECHHH!

Only to very, very close friends ;) :p

Rats.:(
:D

Well, I for one can tell you that parents, friends, family, teachers and even total strangers will go out of their way to insult and bully you if they think you don't look the way they think you should look. It took me several decades to finally like me the way I am, and that was without knowing that my labia don't look like other women's.
Ah, crap. Yes, sorry.
I forgot that most people are intolerant idiots and way too many belong to the group o fassholes who have to act like that to make themselves feel better.

Glad you're fine, though. :fluffle: Wouldn't want it any other way! ;)
I've seen countless vulvas in person, live. Not one was the same as the other. I believe personally that they are like fingerprints.
Haven't met one I didn't like, either.
And you know, if you've seen one, you want to see the rest of them.
Hear hear! :D

The link is valid; but I finally found the original article on the Sydney Morning Herald, so try this one (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/how-porn-is-wrecking-relationships/2007/05/25/1179601669144.html).



Oh, I didn't put the article there as a trojan attack on porn, believe me. :)

Rather, the article deals in particular with secretive and/or compulsive use of porn to the point where idealised imagery becomes "necessary" for sexual release (eg. the woman no longer feels able to live up to expectations - idealised vulvas are specifically mentioned as an example), resulting in the eventual breakdown of relationships.Those parts were pretty interesting.

group o fassholes

Freudian slip?

Freudian slip?

Yeah, I saw that and thought it was either somewhat clever or one of the most hilarious misprints ever.

some one actually did it?! :eek:!

:headbang:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h157/PlutonianEmpire/egads.jpg
BUNNY SUICIDE FTW!

Why can't people just love their bodies? I mean, this is even a body part that pretty much only you, your intimate partner(s) and your doctor see... it's not like someone is going to come up to you on the street and make fun of your labia. I also doubt that an intimate partner would either.

it's not like someone is going to come up to you on the street and make fun of your labia.

Actually, given the way some people dress, that may be a distinct possibility.

Vaginaoplasty is also popular, and usually involves tightening up the vaginal canal, as well as shortening its depth.

For women whose men are built like a pencil that's been sharpened too many times, and who can't feel whether he's in or not...
Geez... haven't these people ever heard of kegels? It's like men who go get calf or pec implants, why get surgery when you can just hit the gym? (or in the case of kegels, quietly squeeze your way to being able to change the shape of your vaginal canal...)

Why can't people just love their bodies? I mean, this is even a body part that pretty much only you, your intimate partner(s) and your doctor see... it's not like someone is going to come up to you on the street and make fun of your labia. I also doubt that an intimate partner would either.

You make a very valid point... I think both males and females would agree that by the time one gets to that intimate part in a relationship, making disparaging remarks about their then intimate partner's "equipment" isn't likely to happen.

:) ON a side note, sometimes AFTER the relationship gone bad there are comments.. (thinking of many a movie where the woman made quite bad references to size issues of their previous partner)..

Actually, given the way some people dress, that may be a distinct possibility.
Yeah, I suppose that there are celebrities who go about not wearing underwear with their short skirts... and the ones that I've seen have made me realize that I'm quite pretty down there.

I dread the day when it comes fashionable to split the pecker down the middle or something as weird.
Oh god, you've never been through BME's descriptions of what some men do to their penises have you?

(I'll give you a hint, that's been done... they had pics... it was disturbing...)

Oh god, you've never been through BME's descriptions of what some men do to their penises have you?

(I'll give you a hint, that's been done... they had pics... it was disturbing...)

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/do-not-want-70.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/do-not-want-70.jpg

I think it is safe to say after the prior description to immediately see a link to a picture means I WILL NOT be clicking on said link....

hehehehe

Oh god, you've never been through BME's descriptions of what some men do to their penises have you?

BME? Who/What/When/Where/Why/How is that?

I think it is safe to say after the prior description to immediately see a link to a picture means I WILL NOT be clicking on said link....

hehehehe

Click link! It's funneh and SFW.

You make a very valid point... I think both males and females would agree that by the time one gets to that intimate part in a relationship, making disparaging remarks about their then intimate partner's "equipment" isn't likely to happen.

:) ON a side note, sometimes AFTER the relationship gone bad there are comments.. (thinking of many a movie where the woman made quite bad references to size issues of their previous partner)..
Well, yeah, disparaging remarks could be made after a relationship has ended, but at that point one could easily attribute that to bitterness rather than actual issues with oneself.

BME? Who/What/When/Where/Why/How is that?
Body modification ezine is what it stands for (I think). They have all sorts of things about mody modification (mostly piercings and tattoos but also some more extreme things like the aforementioned penis splitting).

I think it is safe to say after the prior description to immediately see a link to a picture means I WILL NOT be clicking on said link....

hehehehe
I didn't link a picture... I mentioned where one could find such a picture (vaguely, it would take a lot of searching to find it).