NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/24/arts/24crea.html?em&ex=1180238400&en=b95a574977c8d65a&ei=5087%0A

Well, the "Creation Museum" has been built. I know I shouldn't be surprised, but it scares me that this place exists, and the more I read about it, the more scared I get.

The heart of the museum is a series of catastrophes. The main one is the fall, with Adam and Eve eating of the tree of knowledge; after that tableau the viewer descends from the brightness of Eden into genuinely creepy cement hallways of urban slums. Photographs show the pain of war, childbirth, death — the wages of primal sin. Then come the biblical accounts of the fallen world, leading up to Noah’s ark and the flood, the source of all significant geological phenomena.

The other catastrophe, in the museum’s view, is of more recent vintage: the abandonment of the Bible by church figures who began to treat the story of creation as if it were merely metaphorical, and by Enlightenment philosophers, who chipped away at biblical authority. The ministry believes this is a slippery slope.

Start accepting evolution or an ancient Earth, and the result is like the giant wrecking ball, labeled “Millions of Years,” that is shown smashing the ground at the foundation of a church, the cracks reaching across the gallery to a model of a home in which videos demonstrate the imminence of moral dissolution. A teenager is shown sitting at a computer; he is, we are told, looking at pornography.

How on earth do the people running this place perceive what they're doing as having anything to do with science or education? I just don't get it.

Well, it was bound to happen

Maybe if we shout propaganda long enough nobody will isten anyway.

Thats complete and utter nonsense...

Does it show Adam and Eve naked and getting it on before the Fall? The Woodstock of the Christian faith.

I think it's cool. No one ever told me that all the dinosaurs were herbivores and played with little human children.

Does it show Adam and Eve naked and getting it on before the Fall? The Woodstock of the Christian faith.

Of course not! Such a warm and wholesome place wouldn't show something as dirty as nakedness. Besides, Adam and Eve were innocent before the Fall, so they wouldn't have done it.

Seriously though, I read an article about this when they were building it - and how they had to creatively design the pre-fall exhibits so that no nudity would actually show.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/24/arts/24crea.html?em&ex=1180238400&en=b95a574977c8d65a&ei=5087%0A

Well, the "Creation Museum" has been built. I know I shouldn't be surprised, but it scares me that this place exists, and the more I read about it, the more scared I get.

How on earth do the people running this place perceive what they're doing as having anything to do with science or education? I just don't get it.

They couldn't express their views in a real scientific forum without running into contrary evidence, so they built one where they can bend the rules and information to suit their conclusions. I am a little surprised there are enough people with an investment in young-earth creationism to fund a $27 million "museum", but I guess anything is possible.

Of course not! Such a warm and wholesome place wouldn't show something as dirty as nakedness. Besides, Adam and Eve were innocent before the Fall, so they wouldn't have done it.

Seriously though, I read an article about this when they were building it - and how they had to creatively design the pre-fall exhibits so that no nudity would actually show.

Oh... Jesus Christ...

But wasn't that Adams big beef with Lilith? She wanted to be on top and so he made God scrap her and make him a more submissive biatch? I thought pre-fall it was all about the 'ol in-out in-out.

The people who run that museum pushed away all the evidence and proof gathered by inteligent and sane induviduals and made up thier own story about everything. They completly removed themselves from all inteligent thought and spat out only what they are told by a book.

Thats a major reason why I don't support organized religion... it kills human inteligence and plays on the basic areas of human psychy known as stupidity.

And, according to the museum, recognizing the TOE as the only actual theory= porn addiction.

Ignorance at it's finest.

Seriously though, I read an article about this when they were building it - and how they had to creatively design the pre-fall exhibits so that no nudity would actually show.

Hee. That must have been an entertaining design process to watch. "Turn the mannequin just a little more this way - no, wait, I can kind of see her butt again! Go back! Go back!"

And, according to the museum, recognizing the TOE as the only actual theory= porn addiction.

Ignorance at it's finest.

Actually...

that was the one point I wasn't going to argue. But still... it is irrelevant.

I'm waiting for it to get hit by lightning and burn down, or get tornadoed or some other natural disaster; the irony would be delicious.

They couldn't express their views in a real scientific forum without running into contrary evidence, so they built one where they can bend the rules and information to suit their conclusions. I am a little surprised there are enough people with an investment in young-earth creationism to fund a $27 million "museum", but I guess anything is possible.

Actually, it's not hard to believe. Just take a look at the various televangelical groups, and remember that behind each of those groups is a remarkably well-organized fundraising effort.

Even if the only people who offered any sort of funding to this event were followers of Billy Graham and the like, I can easily see the televangelicals raising enough funds to complete this farce of a museum.

Creationism should be in a museum alright, but in a different sense.

.. it scares me that this place exists, and the more I read about it, the more scared I get. LOL.

I just hope some terrorists blow the entire place up.

Does it show Adam and Eve naked and getting it on before the Fall? The Woodstock of the Christian faith.

I am going to bring my camcorder. and send the clip to the more puritan pastors/reverands/etc :D

Actually, it's not hard to believe. Just take a look at the various televangelical groups, and remember that behind each of those groups is a remarkably well-organized fundraising effort.

Even if the only people who offered any sort of funding to this event were followers of Billy Graham and the like, I can easily see the televangelicals raising enough funds to complete this farce of a museum.

True, I guess that would be a considerable source of income for a creationist "museum".

In local Kentucky news, there is apparently one group that plans to protest at the opening of the museum. (http://www.kentucky.com/454/story/79412.html)

Of course not! Such a warm and wholesome place wouldn't show something as dirty as nakedness. Besides, Adam and Eve were innocent before the Fall, so they wouldn't have done it.



:eek: Glad we fell... life without sex? Eww.....

creationist museums...churches...cathedrals...stone circles...part of life and keep some people occupied and give purpose.

I'm not saying i agree but provided no one makes me go, i'm cool with it all.

THEY BELIEVE NOAH´S FLOOD HAPENED 2400 YEARS AGO?!

Then maybe the 300 spartans didnt had to fight, they just should´ve had waited so the flood killed all the millions of persians soldiers.

Maybe the Roman Republic was made out of Noah´s step son´s family.

I can just imagine it now... the museum of stupid things people used to believe, with creationism as one of the exhibits... :)

THEY BELIEVE NOAH´S FLOOD HAPENED 2400 YEARS AGO?!

Then maybe the 300 spartans didnt had to fight, they just should´ve had waited so the flood killed all the millions of persians soldiers.

Maybe the Roman Republic was made out of Noah´s step son´s family.

It's entirely plausible if you ignore hundreds of years of research w/ thousands of pieces of evidence from dozens of different fields of study.

I am going to bring my camcorder. and send the clip to the more puritan pastors/reverands/etc :D

You know that God set that up with his Tivo.

Just ask these creationists where the dinosaurs fit in, it would be like the biggest o snap moment ever.

Just ask these creationists where the dinosaurs fit in, it would be like the biggest o snap moment ever.

Apparently, the Romans rode in on them.

Apparently, the Romans rode in on them.

And then killed them all and ate them.

And then killed them all and ate them.

Triceretop hide makes an excellent purse. And you can't beat the matching pumps.

Wow, I think I ought to revoke my "optimist" vote in the other thread. :headbang:

Just ask these creationists where the dinosaurs fit in, it would be like the biggest o snap moment ever.

The dinosaurs offended God by not inviting Him to their poker game. Therefor, they did not recieve tickets for the Ark and they all drowned. *nods wisely and scribles this in the margins of the bible*

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/24/arts/24crea.html?em&ex=1180238400&en=b95a574977c8d65a&ei=5087%0A

Well, the "Creation Museum" has been built. I know I shouldn't be surprised, but it scares me that this place exists, and the more I read about it, the more scared I get.



How on earth do the people running this place perceive what they're doing as having anything to do with science or education? I just don't get it.

As disgusting as it is to athiests like me to see something so utterly unscientific and baseless being called a museum...we can't do a thing about it. So long as it is disbarred from accepting something like class field trips from schools, I say let them wallow in their ignorance. Sooner or later all the Creationists will be dead(old age, those of you who think I'm advocating some sort of violence) and we'll finally be rid of them. Patience, my friends. Patience.

We can do something about it. I say lets blow the place up. :headbang:

Anyway, St George killed the last dinossaur in the 4th century after Christ. In the moon.

What I do when confronted with creationism is this:

I write the word, "Stars" on the head of a warhammer and I smash the offending person in the groin at the speed of light. :)

What I do when confronted with creationism is this:

I write the word, "Stars" on the head of a warhammer and I smash the offending person in the groin at the speed of light. :)
That's not even remotely funny!

...

Wow...something that can make even Lunatic Goofballs do something unfunny...talk about a seriously horrible event.

We can do something about it. I say lets blow the place up. :headbang:

Anyway, St George killed the last dinossaur in the 4th century after Christ. In the moon.
That story reminds me of Reign of Fire, in terms of just how stupid it is.

That's not even remotely funny!

...

Wow...something that can make even Lunatic Goofballs do something unfunny...talk about a seriously horrible event.

If I could swing a warhammer at the speed of light, I wouldn't have to be funny. :)

But you're right; It's over to quickly. Maybe something with vice grips. *nod*

If I could swing a warhammer at the speed of light, I wouldn't have to be funny. :)

But you're right; It's over to quickly. Maybe something with vice grips. *nod*

meat tenderizer...

From the kentucky.com article:

Ham said the DefCon people and other scientists are criticizing his religion.

"They're saying 'You can believe what you want, but it's wrong,'" he said.

Well...yeah. That is, in fact, what we're saying. We would also say this if you insisted that the moon was made of green cheese, or that the Earth was flat. Reality is mean like that. :p

From the kentucky.com article:



Well...yeah. That is, in fact, what we're saying. We would also say this if you insisted that the moon was made of green cheese, or that the Earth was flat. Reality is mean like that. :p

Indeed. To be frank, the whining of people like him is extremely childish.

I would like for this museum to remain intact, however, for future posterity...perhaps we can build another, larger musuem around it detailing human stupidity and call it the largest exhibit on the stupidity of Creationism in existance.

As disgusting as it is to athiests like me to see something so utterly unscientific and baseless being called a museum...we can't do a thing about it. So long as it is disbarred from accepting something like class field trips from schools, I say let them wallow in their ignorance. Sooner or later all the Creationists will be dead(old age, those of you who think I'm advocating some sort of violence) and we'll finally be rid of them. Patience, my friends. Patience.
and why should they have to be disbarred from accepting feild trips from schools?

That is the school's choice.

just like we all have a choice of NOT going there, or donating money/time/resources/etc.

let them wallow in their ignorance... or go there and laugh at their displays.

and why should they have to be disbarred from accepting feild trips from schools?

That is the school's choice.

just like we all have a choice of NOT going there, or donating money/time/resources/etc.

let them wallow in their ignorance... or go there and laugh at their displays.

As long as it is not a public school, I could care less.

and why should they have to be disbarred from accepting feild trips from schools?

That is the school's choice.

just like we all have a choice of NOT going there, or donating money/time/resources/etc.

let them wallow in their ignorance... or go there and laugh at their displays.

Because a school should not take them there on a class field trips. Class field trips are supposed to be educational, and unless you count showing how idiotic creationism is as educational, then schools should be disbarred from sending students on class field trips there.

At least public schools. What private schools do is their own business, and I trust any parent that sends a child to a private school knows what they are getting into.

Because a school should not take them there on a class field trips. Class field trips are supposed to be educational, and unless you count showing how idiotic creationism is as educational, then schools should be disbarred from sending students on class field trips there.

At least public schools. What private schools do is their own business, and I trust any parent that sends a child to a private school knows what they are getting into.

I had field trips to zoos and aquariums where we just walked around in small groups and looked at the animals and fishes. no lectures so not very educational.

I had field trips to Plays, Fairs and Carnivals, also class/school picnics at beaches and parks. It doesn't have to be educational. the only thing it HAS to be is it has to have the approval of the student's parents, the school, as well as the place they are going to if needed.

As disgusting as it is to athiests like me to see something so utterly unscientific and baseless being called a museum...we can't do a thing about it. So long as it is disbarred from accepting something like class field trips from schools, I say let them wallow in their ignorance. Sooner or later all the Creationists will be dead(old age, those of you who think I'm advocating some sort of violence) and we'll finally be rid of them. Patience, my friends. Patience.

Two flaws in this argument:

1) Creationists are far more common than many people on this board believe they are, to the extent that almost 50% of American adults believe that "humanity was created in its current form in the last 10,000 years"*... and while some of these people may only believe in humanity being created, a great many of these people likely reject evolution altogether.

2) The creationists have children, too, and a great many of those children will be indoctrinated into accepting and never questioning creationism.
Moreover, since a sizable percentage of creationists won't use birth control, it is entirely plausible that the creationist population will grow at a faster rate than the median.

* - Smunkee found a good source for this information somewhere in the creationist science fair thread. I'm too lazy to dig it up at the moment, but I will do so if needed.

Taking a school field trip to the Creationist museum would be worse for the kids' education (and certainly worse for their intelligence) than taking them to a porn studio, I think. No public school should be allowed to do it, and if it gets a single cent of public money through some "faith-based" scheme, I swear to you I will get a group together, block the doors, and yell at these idiots through a megaphone like rabble-rousing is going out of style.

and why should they have to be disbarred from accepting feild trips from schools?

That is the school's choice.

just like we all have a choice of NOT going there, or donating money/time/resources/etc.

let them wallow in their ignorance... or go there and laugh at their displays.
It runs seriously afoul of the separation clause.

Creationism should be in a museum alright, but in a different sense.
I think we should set up a collection and buy all the land around the museum and put up a BIG iron fence and write "This way to the Idiot Exhibit" on it.

There should be an exhibit of millions of worshipers at a christian concert, with their eyes closed and arms extended upwards palms open. It'd say: This is how photosynthesis works.:D

I had field trips to zoos and aquariums where we just walked around in small groups and looked at the animals and fishes. no lectures so not very educational.

I had field trips to Plays, Fairs and Carnivals, also class/school picnics at beaches and parks. It doesn't have to be educational. the only thing it HAS to be is it has to have the approval of the student's parents, the school, as well as the place they are going to if needed.

None of those field trips were to a place designed to teach religion as truth, now were they?

Now, if the purpose of the field trip was to see a religious exhibit in a class that was studying different religions, and they also visited other religious sites, it could be allowable.

It runs seriously afoul of the separation clause.how so? the Museum won't be paid for hosting a school feild trip. I had field trips going to Buddist/Shinto Temples and no one complained about separation clause being broken.

None of those field trips were to a place designed to teach religion as truth, now were they?

Now, if the purpose of the field trip was to see a religious exhibit in a class that was studying different religions, and they also visited other religious sites, it could be allowable.or it could be a lesson about the various views of thought that are out there.

or it could be just to look at the exhibits and anamatronics. you know, no lectures, just a trip to have fun.

as long as the important step is observed. the Parents/Guardians gave their consent.

or it could be a lesson about the various views of thought that are out there.

...which would be fine, as long as other views were being equally explored and it was made clear to students that this was not a science museum.

or it could be just to look at the exhibits and anamatronics. you know, no lectures, just a trip to have fun.

The ENTIRE purpose of the museum is to teach people a religious belief. Unless it was made clear to the students that the museum was not to be seen as a lesson, it would be highly inappropriate for a public school to endorse that kind of teaching.

A museum has an air of authority - especially to children. Taking them "Just for fun" without expressly explaining the problems with the museum would essentially be indoctrination into religion - something no public school should have the authority to do, parental consent or not.

as long as the important step is observed. the Parents/Guardians gave their consent.

I suppose then, if parents gave their consent, it would be perfectly ok for a school to teach Creationism as science and the Bible as absolute truth?

If parents want to teach their children a given religion, then parents can do it.

It is our job to make it well known among as many people as possible that this is unscientific bs. Otherwise many people will be lead astray and the seed of ignorance will let its roots run too deep to be removed so rational thought can enter.

Well, since the other two threads got locked, this one needs to get Boosted Unceremoniously More Postwise to get it back on the first page.