NationStates Jolt Archive

Should we have our fights in US of A?

I’m an Iraqi. We are now suffering for years and it will get worse.

It’s the US of A who started this game, so I propose to stop playing IN Iraq and have our game in the cities of the US.

Those rednecks like to shoot, we’ll they will learn to shoot or be killed.

Yes, cars with babies inside will explode in front of their own eyes.

Yes, people want to visit a son, a mother, a nephew and arrive and cry cause they discover they are death.

Yes, they will know what it is like, losing 150.000 people in no time.

Maybe, it will teach US Citizen not to vote again for a dumb lunatic farmer.

I'm all for it. As long as you pay for the plane tickets, I'll have all my fights there. Preferrably in Manhattan, because I do like to sit down afterwards in some nice cafe in Wall Street or something.

By the way, whose puppet are you?

well it would save on travel costs plus military spending overall and the decreased use of long haul flights to deploy forces abroad would signifcantly reduce carbon emissions....

heck i can't think of a downside.

i mean its seems only fair and its widely known that fairness is not only the aim of warfare but the universal norm for human affairs.

Yes, people want to visit a son, a mother, a nephew and arrive and cry cause they discover they are death.

I suppose it would be quite shocking to find out that a close relative is in fact the Grim Reaper.

The UK in Exile;12693335']well it would save on travel costs plus military spending overall and the decreased use of long haul flights to deploy forces abroad would signifcantly reduce carbon emissions....

heck i can't think of a downside.

Which is good for the environment. By less travelling we will have less polution.

I don't normally do this for people who are enemies of people I mildly dislike, but can I call Troll on this one? 0_o

Should we have our fights in US of A?

I’m an Iraqi. We are now suffering for years and it will get worse.

It’s the US of A who started this game, so I propose to stop playing IN Iraq and have our game in the cities of the US.

Those rednecks like to shoot, we’ll they will learn to shoot or be killed.

Yes, cars with babies inside will explode in front of their own eyes.

Yes, people want to visit a son, a mother, a nephew and arrive and cry cause they discover they are death.

Yes, they will know what it is like, losing 150.000 people in no time.

Maybe, it will teach US Citizen not to vote again for a dumb lunatic farmer.

Umm, no offense man, but we already know what that's like. its called Pearl Harbor, when the Japanese Kamikaze pilots attacked suddenly in the morning. Its called the American Revolution and the Civil War, where brother fought against brother. Its called ethnic riots, where people throw flaming liquor bottles into windows...

How do we not understand when we have gone through all that?

yeah get the Americans ignore Britain entirely we haven't done anything :p

its called Pearl Harbor, when the Japanese Kamikaze pilots attacked suddenly in the morning.
That must have come as one hell of a surprise to the Imperial Japanese Navy... I mean, seeing something that hadn't been invented yet tends to do that to people.

How do we not understand when we have gone through all that?
To be fair, only a minority of Americans who saw that are still alive...

To be fair, only a minority of Americans who saw that are still alive...

My entire family went through it. And because of that, my friend's family went through the internment camps...

yeah get the Americans ignore Britain entirely we haven't done anything :p

It was all America! We did nothing! Yeah and the French...Fight them too...









What do you mean the French were against it?
Quick he's looking at us. Run away!

That must have come as one hell of a surprise to the Imperial Japanese Navy...
:D

Admiral Nagumo: "They're approaching their targets...now they're proceeding to...wait a minute! What the! No! No, don't do that!"

Nope, it sounds like a terrible idea.

Anyways, your type tried, and keeps trying to bring that shit over here. Fortunately, our government can keep the clamps down on it.

My entire family went through it. And because of that, my friend's family went through the internment camps...
Yeah. "My family" went through trench warfare, Stalingrad, Operation Gomorrah, the refugee treks from Eastern Prussia, the RAF and German Autumn...

Doesn't mean I have even the faintest clue what it's like.

Kamikaze Kamikazes are just like Palestinian Suicide Bombers.. on Wings.
and they are Japanese of course.

That must have come as one hell of a surprise to the Imperial Japanese Navy... I mean, seeing something that hadn't been invented yet tends to do that to people.

Kamikazes are just like Palestinian Suicide Bombers.. on Wings.
and they are Japanese of course.

I never thought it like that... and they did use young children.... scary how history repeats itself eventually... no matter how hard you try to keep it from happening

kamakazi's attacked military targets. its an important difference.

Fortunately, our government can keep the clamps down on it.

I thought they where they where the ones using terror :confused:

they did use young children

no they used at youngest 14 year olds, you won't see pacifiers in the wreckage

Umm, no offense man, but we already know what that's like. its called Pearl Harbor, when the Japanese Kamikaze pilots attacked suddenly in the morning. Its called the American Revolution and the Civil War, where brother fought against brother. Its called ethnic riots, where people throw flaming liquor bottles into windows...

How do we not understand when we have gone through all that?

Numbers. Simple numbers.

US and UK bombed civil targets in Iraq.

That is making them terrorists.

Blair and Bush, both deserve the same punishment as Saddam.

Umm, no offense man, but we already know what that's like. its called Pearl Harbor, when the Japanese Kamikaze pilots attacked suddenly in the morning. Its called the American Revolution and the Civil War, where brother fought against brother. Its called ethnic riots, where people throw flaming liquor bottles into windows...

How do we not understand when we have gone through all that?
If you need to ask that question - you've already answered it yourself... :rolleyes:

Americans would only understand what war really means if the fighting took indeed place in their country and all of their cities (had) looked like this:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/Ruins.jpg

I never thought it like that... and they did use young children.... scary how history repeats itself eventually... no matter how hard you try to keep it from happening
Waa? Where did you hear this?

If you need to ask that question - you've already answered it yourself... :rolleyes:

Americans would only understand what war really means if the fighting took indeed place in their country and all of their cities (had) looked like this:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/Ruins.jpg
To be fair, a lot of the South DID look like that after the Civil War.

US and UK bombed civil targets in Iraq.


Too bad.

I'm taking my chance of posting here before it goes closed and baleeted.


And well, of course, they blasted your country, now you want to blast theirs. It is just natural. The problem is, Do you really can do that?

If you can, be welcome to do so. Sink as low as your enemy, in any case. Please keep the targetting aimed at soldiers please, the killing of civilians by a military force is not morally justifiable under any statement.

Should we have our fights in US of A?

I’m an Iraqi. We are now suffering for years and it will get worse.

It’s the US of A who started this game, so I propose to stop playing IN Iraq and have our game in the cities of the US.

Those rednecks like to shoot, we’ll they will learn to shoot or be killed.

Yes, cars with babies inside will explode in front of their own eyes.

Yes, people want to visit a son, a mother, a nephew and arrive and cry cause they discover they are death.

Yes, they will know what it is like, losing 150.000 people in no time.

Maybe, it will teach US Citizen not to vote again for a dumb lunatic farmer.

Well you are no Iraqi American I know. I do know a few. I know a few who have broken up Arab anti-war protests.
I know shop owners, cafe owners, clothing workers. I delivered to a lot of Iraqis. Muslim and Christian. I found a couple who didnt like the lack of troop strength...but none who sounded like you.

But bomb away, I wish someone would it might remind this country we are at fucking...another terrorist attack would get a real nice hate on.

To be fair, a lot of the South DID look like that after the Civil War.

I doubt you had the capacity to wreak THAT extend of havoc in the 19th century. We're not talking parts of a country there, the entire European continent looked more or less like that. Some parts looked worse.

To be fair, a lot of the South DID look like that after the Civil War.
Well, then maybe the Canadians should burn down D.C. again to remind everyone!

US and UK bombed civil targets in Iraq.

That is making them terrorists.

Blair and Bush, both deserve the same punishment as Saddam.

Sure they do, but it doesn't mean it'll happen.

The American government is run by incompetent asshats who don't know their ass from a hole in a doughnut.

Anyone who attacks a civil target is a terrorist.

I doubt you had the capacity to wreak THAT extend of havoc in the 19th century. We're not talking parts of a country there, the entire European continent looked more or less like that. Some parts looked worse.

True, the devastation wreaked on Europe was much worse than what we did to the South, but we did do quite a bit of damage. Here's Richmond, Virginia in 1865

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Richmond_va_1865.jpg

Well, American mother, are you proud about your son?

Are you proud that he’s part of an illegal invasion power?

Are you proud that he killed another 6 year old boy yesterday?

Are you proud about the 150.000 people that are killed last week?

Well, American mother?

But bomb away, I wish someone would it might remind this country we are at fucking...another terrorist attack would get a real nice hate on.

So, we hit you in the face and do not dare to hit us back because we're going to hate you and hit you even more and more harder? Not negating the practical truth of your words, but I have heard those words before...

From High School bullies...

US and UK bombed civil targets in Iraq.

That is making them terrorists.
US and UK bombed civil targets in Iraq.Too bad.Is your -too bad- comment good for the "they are terrorist" part too?

Please keep the targetting aimed at soldiers please, the killing of civilians by a military force is not morally justifiable under any statement.

and the killing of soldiers is :confused:

I suppose it would be quite shocking to find out that a close relative is in fact the Grim Reaper.

Just because picking up languages comes easily to you, don't take the mickey out of others for trying.

Just because picking up languages comes easily to you, don't take the mickey out of others for trying.

Sorry, but that one was far too tasty to let pass by.

I doubt you had the capacity to wreak THAT extend of havoc in the 19th century. We're not talking parts of a country there, the entire European continent looked more or less like that. Some parts looked worse.
Look at some pictures from the time period. It was total war and some union troops were not nice at all.

Some areas were leveled.

Well, then maybe the Canadians should burn down D.C. again to remind everyone!
Let's not start THAT argument again! ;)

and the killing of soldiers is :confused:

Justifiable under current war legislation and theories of ethical models. Read a bit of Thomas Aquinas.

So, we hit you in the face and do not dare to hit us back because we're going to hate you and hit you even more and more harder? Not negating the practical truth of your words, but I have heard those words before...

From High School bullies...

Look we are at war, and I drive around every day and watch the news and the people I see are asleep.

Hell my Arab friends are the only damned people I get real input and concern from.

An attack would remind peope...that indeed we are at war. That somewhere people are being killed.

If Americans are reminded of that, then right or wrong they will demand action...and in a war for all practical purposes gettin a good hate on is the best policy.

I am not saying it is the most kind or the most compassionate, but the objective should always be to win, fair or unfair isnt part of the equation.

So you see when you read " Iwish you would" you thought it was sarcasm...it sadly wasnt.

Umm, no offense man, but we already know what that's like. its called Pearl Harbor, when the Japanese Kamikaze pilots attacked suddenly in the morning. Its called the American Revolution and the Civil War, where brother fought against brother. Its called ethnic riots, where people throw flaming liquor bottles into windows...

How do we not understand when we have gone through all that?

Pfsh, all but Pearl Harbour were centuries ago and Pearl Harbour wasn't a mainland attack/lasting war.

How often were you supposed to rebel, every thirty years?:p

Sorry, but that one was far too tasty to let pass by.


It was too tasty. A bit of humor is always refreshing to threads like this one.

Should we have our fights in US of A?

I’m an Iraqi. We are now suffering for years and it will get worse.

It’s the US of A who started this game, so I propose to stop playing IN Iraq and have our game in the cities of the US.

Those rednecks like to shoot, we’ll they will learn to shoot or be killed.

Yes, cars with babies inside will explode in front of their own eyes.

Yes, people want to visit a son, a mother, a nephew and arrive and cry cause they discover they are death.

Yes, they will know what it is like, losing 150.000 people in no time.

Maybe, it will teach US Citizen not to vote again for a dumb lunatic farmer.

Well, American mother, are you proud about your son?

Are you proud that he’s part of an illegal invasion power?

Are you proud that he killed another 6 year old boy yesterday?

Are you proud about the 150.000 people that are killed last week?

Well, American mother?

Ban, I understand that your frustrated but you should realise that the majority of the world is behind the Iraqi civilian population and condemns every action of the American and British governments in Iraq.

What they have done is nothing short of state sanctioned terrorism; mindless terrorism that they accused groups like Hamas and al-Qaeda of.

Understand that many of us feel badly and guilty for something that we have no control over.

And for people who think it's bed and roses, this fellow puts a truly human face on the war.

True, the devastation wreaked on Europe was much worse than what we did to the South, but we did do quite a bit of damage. Here's Richmond, Virginia in 1865

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Richmond_va_1865.jpg
With only 3% of the American population killed (civilians and soldiers; ca. 1 million) in that conflict and about 40 million dead civilians in WW2 - I dare say there is a difference.
So, we hit you in the face and do not dare to hit us back because we're going to hate you and hit you even more and more harder? Not negating the practical truth of your words, but I have heard those words before...

From High School bullies...
That's why I say it's time that the U.S. graduated...
Is your -too bad- comment good for the "they are terrorist" part too?
I'd say it qualifies. :D

Look we are at war, and I drive around every day and watch the news and the people I see are asleep.

Hell my Arab friends are the only damned people I get real input and concern from.

An attack would remind peope...that indeed we are at war. That somewhere people are being killed.

If Americans are reminded of that, then right or wrong they will demand action...and in a war for all practical purposes gettin a good hate on is the best policy.

I am not saying it is the most kind or the most compassionate, but the objective should always be to win, fair or unfair isnt part of the equation.

So you see when you read " Iwish you would" you thought it was sarcasm...it sadly wasnt.


Hate on war or hate on arabs?

It would be easily to win that war without risk of retribution if you denounce and imprison your own arab friends, or even worse, eliminate that potential thread right now before they ask too many question and begin to stir trouble.

Why are you sitting there in your computer and not doing that as we speak, if the only objective that matters is to win that war? If you're going machiavellian, go all the way, lad.

I certainly think it is possible to have a guerrilla war inside America.

Hit, Shoot and Run.

We would use the same techniques as US is doing now.

There’s nothing brave about dropping heavy cluster bombs above civil areas.

You don’t need a huge force. Only a few thousand soldiers inside US is enough.
And getting guns is so easy in that country…

And you don’t need a brain to carry a gun.

Oh man, we could create some fearing panic.

What would you oversized fat American, what would you do if we would enter your local mall with a few dozen well trained professional soldiers, get some kills and run away, what would you do? Nothing, else you would be death meat.

Later on, you may cry about the coward attack, you may cry in front of entire US when your local TV station is broadcasting your tears.

Maybe then, you know how it feels to life in terror and pain. Would you?

With only 3% of the American population killed (civilians and soldiers; ca. 1 million) in that conflict and about 40 million dead civilians in WW2 - I dare say there is a difference.

I said as much.

Although, if one looks at just the CSA rather than both sides, the South did take quite a thrashing.

And since certain people seem so sensitive about it, consider this a disclaimer that I am not in any way claiming that what the South went through in the US Civil War is comparable to what Europe went through in World War II.

Look at some pictures from the time period. It was total war and some union troops were not nice at all.

Some areas were leveled.

I know they were. But nowhere near to the same extend.
I know there's this bit in most Americans that always says "But we're better/worse/cleverer/wittier and everything else-er than the rest of the world, but when you look at the extend of damage and the cost of civilian lifes during wars in history, you do take a back seat, sorry.
On the one hand, believe me, it's something to be happy about it. On the other hand, yes, I think one of the results is that to the American psyche, war is something that happens elsewhere. It's something that you send soldiers to, some of whom may no return. And that's how far the catastrophe goes. It doesn't happen to you, it doesn't happen on your doorstep, it doesn't threaten you.

Don't get me wrong, please, it's no accusation of any kind. It's an observation, that's all.
I think in a way you are a bit like the British were before WW II. They felt the same sense of security on their island. War only ever happened elsewhere...

I certainly think it is possible to have a guerrilla war inside America.

Hit, Shoot and Run.

We would use the same techniques as US is doing now.

There’s nothing brave about dropping heavy cluster bombs above civil areas.

You don’t need a huge force. Only a few thousand soldiers inside US is enough.
And getting guns is so easy in that country…

And you don’t need a brain to carry a gun.

Oh man, we could create some fearing panic.

What would you oversized fat American, what would you do if we would enter your local mall with a few dozen well trained professional soldiers, get some kills and run away, what would you do? Nothing, else you would be death meat.

Later on, you may cry about the coward attack, you may cry in front of entire US when your local TV station is broadcasting your tears.

Maybe then, you know how it feels to life in terror and pain. Would you?
Probably so.

Yet, two wrongs don't make one right - and advocating murder is more than questionable.

Probably so.

Yet, two wrongs don't make one right - and advocating murder is more than questionable.

I agree with you. Two rights never make a right. What he is advocating is revenge and it only perpetuates a vicious cycle.

We need to try and reach out to our new Iraqi friend and show him that it's only a few Americans who think this war is fine and that the rest of us condemn the war and that we're on the same page.

He's in pain and it shows in his words. We should try and show him that the rest of us are symbolically hurting because we hate this war and see it as inherently undemocratic and a form of state-sanctioned terrorism.'

Our Iraqi friend has a lot of pented up anger and it's not surprising. I'd be surprised if he was any less jaded and cynical than he is now.

Ban, I understand that your frustrated but you should realise that the majority of the world is behind the Iraqi civilian population and condemns every action of the American and British governments in Iraq.

What they have done is nothing short of state sanctioned terrorism; mindless terrorism that they accused groups like Hamas and al-Qaeda of.

Understand that many of us feel badly and guilty for something that we have no control over.

And for people who think it's bed and roses, this fellow puts a truly human face on the war.

My view exactly, and the kind of posture the situation needs to prevent further violence. I wish there would be more Kryozerkias in the world, or at least more understanding people.

Probably so.

Yet, two wrongs don't make one right - and advocating murder is more than questionable.

But I totally agree with GN here, to advocate murder is turn into a monster. And that is exactly what BL is doing.

I'd also like to point out that the much of the British population were opposed to the War, if not because they disagree with senseless war and killing, then because the government lied to it's people and exagerrated the threat that Iraq actually posed.

Considering the actual retaliation taken by Iraq, I'd say that's one hell of an exaggeration.

Granted, there are some psychos in the country. Hell, there are perfectly sensible people who supported the war for one reason and another, but hundreds of thousands of people protesting against it is not a 'troublesome minority'.

And yes, both sides have made mistakes, probably moreso on the part of the British and Americans, don't we think now is perhaps time to end it?
Now that the region has been entirely destabilised, the economies crippled, the innocent people massacred, and the Eastern values completely crushed by the machine of Western military golbalisation. Perhaps now is, just maybe, enough? And time to move on?

Except of course, now that they've "started the job, we've got to finish it". It's not a paintjob.

Either way, attempting to use force to achieve stable government...hmm...that sounds reminiscent of a vicious dictator an unasked for army came along and murdered.

Well what do you know? Whoever said it was right...Bush and Blair are terrorists.

Well, that's just what I think. As entitled.

I know they were. But nowhere near to the same extend.
I know there's this bit in most Americans that always says "But we're better/worse/cleverer/wittier and everything else-er than the rest of the world, but when you look at the extend of damage and the cost of civilian lifes during wars in history, you do take a back seat, sorry.
Um... Cabra, I wasn't making a "We had it worst" statement, of course Europe saw far greater devastation, all I was doing was noting that the US has seen scenes like GN's picture. It's not as if we have never seen destruction before.

On the one hand, believe me, it's something to be happy about it. On the other hand, yes, I think one of the results is that to the American psyche, war is something that happens elsewhere. It's something that you send soldiers to, some of whom may no return. And that's how far the catastrophe goes. It doesn't happen to you, it doesn't happen on your doorstep, it doesn't threaten you.

Don't get me wrong, please, it's no accusation of any kind. It's an observation, that's all.
I think in a way you are a bit like the British were before WW II. They felt the same sense of security on their island. War only ever happened elsewhere...
Actually I disagree there. We have seen war before and the horrors there of. I think the main difference is that America forgets. We always have. We seem to be made to look towards the future and forget the past.

For example, President Bush made a rather inane comment after 9/11 about how we found out that our oceans no longer protect us. My immediate reaction to that was to say, "I thought we found THAT out on Dec 7th, 1941. Not to mention 1812 and 1776".

I know they were. But nowhere near to the same extend.
On the other hand, yes, I think one of the results is that to the American psyche, war is something that happens elsewhere. It's something that you send soldiers to, some of whom may no return. And that's how far the catastrophe goes. It doesn't happen to you, it doesn't happen on your doorstep, it doesn't threaten you.

Don't get me wrong, please, it's no accusation of any kind. It's an observation, that's all.
I think in a way you are a bit like the British were before WW II. They felt the same sense of security on their island. War only ever happened elsewhere...

I would like to add Kudos to this, it's exactly right!
And fairly objective.
Not often that happens.

Okay, I'm a fat, stupid, ignorant American. I understood invading Afganistan, never understood invading Iraq. But, aren't you guys too busy killing each other to come after us? I have yet to hear boo about any US suicide bombers . . .

I know they were. But nowhere near to the same extend.
I know there's this bit in most Americans that always says "But we're better/worse/cleverer/wittier and everything else-er than the rest of the world, but when you look at the extend of damage and the cost of civilian lifes during wars in history, you do take a back seat, sorry.
On the one hand, believe me, it's something to be happy about it. On the other hand, yes, I think one of the results is that to the American psyche, war is something that happens elsewhere. It's something that you send soldiers to, some of whom may no return. And that's how far the catastrophe goes. It doesn't happen to you, it doesn't happen on your doorstep, it doesn't threaten you.

Don't get me wrong, please, it's no accusation of any kind. It's an observation, that's all.
I think in a way you are a bit like the British were before WW II. They felt the same sense of security on their island. War only ever happened elsewhere...

Um... Cabra, I wasn't making a "We had it worst" statement, of course Europe saw far greater devastation, all I was doing was noting that the US has seen scenes like GN's picture. It's not as if we have never seen destruction before.


Actually I disagree there. We have seen war before and the horrors there of. I think the main difference is that America forgets. We always have. We seem to be made to look towards the future and forget the past.

For example, President Bush made a rather inane comment after 9/11 about how we found out that our oceans no longer protect us. My immediate reaction to that was to say, "I thought we found THAT out on Dec 7th, 1941. Not to mention 1812 and 1776".

Actually to be fair, it's not just Americans that forget, Europeans do too.
Apart from German People, they're not allowed to forget, of course because they are obviously all evil to the bone even today. *a large amount of sarcasm should be attached to this statement*
And yes, historical events are relevant to those that actually think about them.
The vast majority of people though, like myself, can't actually put themselves in the mindset of the people who went through the war.
I think that's the important thing here.
Every thirty years of so there is a war (note I'm not claiming it's America that starts them) because the youngest generation have forgotten just how horrific it actually was.
It goes in cycles, it's a shame, but that's how it seems.

Actually I disagree there. We have seen war before and the horrors there of. I think the main difference is that America forgets. We always have. We seem to be made to look towards the future and forget the past.

For example, President Bush made a rather inane comment after 9/11 about how we found out that our oceans no longer protect us. My immediate reaction to that was to say, "I thought we found THAT out on Dec 7th, 1941. Not to mention 1812 and 1776".

Well, people tend to forget, and fast, that's true. Maybe it was simply the scale of WW II that made sure that it remains in the consciousness of Europeans for a little longer than usual. Or maybe it's just my German side talking here.
And I think one of the reasons why the US (or some of its population at least ;)) was rather quick about forgeting was that Pearl Harbour was one attack, not a series or a constant attack. Single incidences tend to be faster forgotten. Also, correct me if I'm wrong there, it's my impression that the attack came as a shock, but it didn't happen in mainland USA and was therefore not quite as traumatic. Which made it easier to forget about again...

See, the US's reaction to the bombing of the WTC was utterly incomprehensible to most people I talked to here. They couldn't understand the cries for revenge. In their minds, an attitude like that is unlikely to ever solve any problem, it will just distract from finding the root and correcting the issue. And that's still going on. Instead of policing the incident, the problem was actively escalated, creating not stability nor security, but more suffering, more fanatism and in turn more terrorism.

Actually to be fair, it's not just Americans that forget, Europeans do too.
Apart from German People, they're not allowed to forget, of course because they are obviously all evil to the bone even today. *a large amount of sarcasm should be attached to this statement*
And yes, historical events are relevant to those that actually think about them.
The vast majority of people though, like myself, can't actually put themselves in the mindset of the people who went through the war.
I think that's the important thing here.
Every thirty years of so there is a war (note I'm not claiming it's America that starts them) because the youngest generation have forgotten just how horrific it actually was.
It goes in cycles, it's a shame, but that's how it seems.
I'm not sure on that though. Maybe Americans tend to be more fixated on the future? Hmm... It's hard to put into words, but having met a number of people from across the globe, it strikes me that my fellow Americans always act so damned surprised when something like a war or an attack happens. Everyone else gets surprised of course, but quickly notes what happened and why and corrects it. Americans act as if it was a bolt out of the blue and then within a decade are back to the way they were before.

So it isn't just a generational thing, it's well within the lifetime of people who experienced it.

Is your -too bad- comment good for the "they are terrorist" part too?

No, it's for the first part.

Beyond that, terrorists are by definition non-state actors, so Bush and Blair cannot be terrorists because they make use of the tools of the state.

Actually to be fair, it's not just Americans that forget, Europeans do too.
Apart from German People, they're not allowed to forget, of course because they are obviously all evil to the bone even today. *a large amount of sarcasm should be attached to this statement*
And yes, historical events are relevant to those that actually think about them.
The vast majority of people though, like myself, can't actually put themselves in the mindset of the people who went through the war.
I think that's the important thing here.
Every thirty years of so there is a war (note I'm not claiming it's America that starts them) because the youngest generation have forgotten just how horrific it actually was.
It goes in cycles, it's a shame, but that's how it seems.

One of our history teacher once pointed out that, in written history, my parents generation was the first generation to grow up and grow old in Germany without seeing war in their country.
That's not to say that Germany started them, most of the time it didn't. But when France went to war with Austria, they would of course fight in Germany, it's a geographic necessity.
I think the only difference after WW II was, first of all, the simple fact that no war ever before had cost more lifes, civilian and otherwise, and also thankfully the alliance between Germany and France that would become the basis for the EU.

Well, people tend to forget, and fast, that's true. Maybe it was simply the scale of WW II that made sure that it remains in the consciousness of Europeans for a little longer than usual. Or maybe it's just my German side talking here.
And I think one of the reasons why the US (or some of its population at least ;)) was rather quick about forgeting was that Pearl Harbour was one attack, not a series or a constant attack. Single incidences tend to be faster forgotten. Also, correct me if I'm wrong there, it's my impression that the attack came as a shock, but it didn't happen in mainland USA and was therefore not quite as traumatic. Which made it easier to forget about again...
Maybe, but it was against a Naval base and killed a lot of men. From what I understand from historical studies as well as talking to folks, it caused massive changes to the US, changes that lasted... until the war was over.

Which is a repeat of the destruction of the USS Maine (Spanish-American War). We just seem to forget quicker, we want a return from morning the past to going back to the future! :p

See, the US's reaction to the bombing of the WTC was utterly incomprehensible to most people I talked to here. They couldn't understand the cries for revenge. In their minds, an attitude like that is unlikely to ever solve any problem, it will just distract from finding the root and correcting the issue. And that's still going on. Instead of policing the incident, the problem was actively escalated, creating not stability nor security, but more suffering, more fanatism and in turn more terrorism.
Sadly, yes.

I'm not sure on that though. Maybe Americans tend to be more fixated on the future? Hmm... It's hard to put into words, but having met a number of people from across the globe, it strikes me that my fellow Americans always act so damned surprised when something like a war or an attack happens. Everyone else gets surprised of course, but quickly notes what happened and why and corrects it. Americans act as if it was a bolt out of the blue and then within a decade are back to the way they were before.

So it isn't just a generational thing, it's well within the lifetime of people who experienced it.

Maybe you're right.

What exactly are you saying though? That American people tend to act as seems best at the time and then not observe the consequences? So that when the next time comes around, they don't understand that their actions have serious repurcussions for many many people?

Sorry if I've misread you.

Maybe, but it was against a Naval base and killed a lot of men. From what I understand from historical studies as well as talking to folks, it caused massive changes to the US, changes that lasted... until the war was over.

Which is a repeat of the destruction of the USS Maine (Spanish-American War). We just seem to forget quicker, we want a return from morning the past to going back to the future! :p


Ah, see, I think it takes traumatic events to sink in and change the public psyche. Normal events change policies and behaviour for a while, on a rational level, but we all know that homo sapiens isn't quite as rational as he likes to portray himself. ;)

Let's not start THAT argument again! ;)
Aw... ;)
Look we are at war, and I drive around every day and watch the news and the people I see are asleep.
Hell my Arab friends are the only damned people I get real input and concern from.
An attack would remind peope...that indeed we are at war. That somewhere people are being killed.
If Americans are reminded of that, then right or wrong they will demand action...and in a war for all practical purposes gettin a good hate on is the best policy.
I am not saying it is the most kind or the most compassionate, but the objective should always be to win, fair or unfair isnt part of the equation.
So you see when you read " Iwish you would" you thought it was sarcasm...it sadly wasnt.
I know they were. But nowhere near to the same extend.
I know there's this bit in most Americans that always says "But we're better/worse/cleverer/wittier and everything else-er than the rest of the world, but when you look at the extend of damage and the cost of civilian lifes during wars in history, you do take a back seat, sorry.
On the one hand, believe me, it's something to be happy about it. On the other hand, yes, I think one of the results is that to the American psyche, war is something that happens elsewhere. It's something that you send soldiers to, some of whom may no return. And that's how far the catastrophe goes. It doesn't happen to you, it doesn't happen on your doorstep, it doesn't threaten you.
Don't get me wrong, please, it's no accusation of any kind. It's an observation, that's all.
I think in a way you are a bit like the British were before WW II. They felt the same sense of security on their island. War only ever happened elsewhere...
Maybe this will put it a little into perspective?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/war.jpg

I said as much.
Although, if one looks at just the CSA rather than both sides, the South did take quite a thrashing.
And since certain people seem so sensitive about it, consider this a disclaimer that I am not in any way claiming that what the South went through in the US Civil War is comparable to what Europe went through in World War II.
I know you did. I was just going to support that with a couple of (Wiki-)numbers.
Thing is, though - not even I can understand what total war in Europe entailed, even though my grandparents lived through it and survived and my parents grew up in a devestated country.

And yet, I consider war one of the worst things that could ever happen.
It really seems that every generation needs to be reminded anew - something that I miss in the United States. Mostly for the reasons Cara has mentioned.
I agree with you. Two rights never make a right. What he is advocating is revenge and it only perpetuates a vicious cycle.
We need to try and reach out to our new Iraqi friend and show him that it's only a few Americans who think this war is fine and that the rest of us condemn the war and that we're on the same page.
He's in pain and it shows in his words. We should try and show him that the rest of us are symbolically hurting because we hate this war and see it as inherently undemocratic and a form of state-sanctioned terrorism.'
Our Iraqi friend has a lot of pented up anger and it's not surprising. I'd be surprised if he was any less jaded and cynical than he is now.
Not only can I understand his anger - I also share it.
But what I also share is the feeling of utter helplessness when it comes to the war in Iraq.
There really is nothing I can do to change the situation.

I can only voice my opposition to the war, my support for the Iraqi people - and offer my condolences to those who lost their lives in that meaningless conflict and tragedy.
Um... Cabra, I wasn't making a "We had it worst" statement, of course Europe saw far greater devastation, all I was doing was noting that the US has seen scenes like GN's picture. It's not as if we have never seen destruction before.
Actually I disagree there. We have seen war before and the horrors there of. I think the main difference is that America forgets. We always have. We seem to be made to look towards the future and forget the past.
For example, President Bush made a rather inane comment after 9/11 about how we found out that our oceans no longer protect us. My immediate reaction to that was to say, "I thought we found THAT out on Dec 7th, 1941. Not to mention 1812 and 1776".
Well, then wake up y'all and smell the... smoke!
Whenever one of "us" Europeans tries to remind "you guys" all we get in return is "we know better, we are better, don't you dare be condescending to us". :(
I would like to add Kudos to this, it's exactly right!
And fairly objective.
Not often that happens.
And to think it comes from a German!!! :eek:

Maybe you're right.

What exactly are you saying though? That American people tend to act as seems best at the time and then not observe the consequences? So that when the next time comes around, they don't understand that their actions have serious repurcussions for many many people?

Sorry if I've misread you.
Well, Arnold Toynbee said it best, "America is a large, friendly dog in a very small room. Every time it wags its tail, it knocks over a chair."

I think what you said is part of it, Americans usually DON'T learn from history. Have you ever read Peter Pan? There's a part where Peter is fighting Hook on Skull Rock and Hook plays unfair, causing Peter to freeze, because, as Mr. Barry put it, Peter always forgets that unfairness exists, so every time he encounters it, 'tis like the first time for a child, a moment of rage and pain in finding out that the world is not fair.

That's how the US tends to be, like Peter Pan.

Ban Liden <-> Bin Laden?

Let's not start THAT argument again! ;)

oh can we try it :p

And to think it comes from a German!!! :eek:

Someone's walking a thin line here...

Hahahaha.

Ban Liden <-> Bin Laden?
I'm thinking no.

I'm all for it. As long as you pay for the plane tickets, I'll have all my fights there. Preferrably in Manhattan, because I do like to sit down afterwards in some nice cafe in Wall Street or something.

By the way, whose puppet are you?

Nice cafe on Wall Street? You ever been to New York City?

Well, Arnold Toynbee said it best, "America is a large, friendly dog in a very small room. Every time it wags its tail, it knocks over a chair."

I think what you said is part of it, Americans usually DON'T learn from history. Have you ever read Peter Pan? There's a part where Peter is fighting Hook on Skull Rock and Hook plays unfair, causing Peter to freeze, because, as Mr. Barry put it, Peter always forgets that unfairness exists, so every time he encounters it, 'tis like the first time for a child, a moment of rage and pain in finding out that the world is not fair.

That's how the US tends to be, like Peter Pan.

Sorry, but I think the US is Captain Hook.

He has a smooth tongue but is always trying to fuck up with everyone else. And he hates clocks because that reminds him that times goes by. And he seems to be paranoid because once he lost his hand (Pearl Harbor was atacked/September 11) and he thinks everyone is after him (terrorists everywhere).

Peter Pan is the poor world, that gets fucked over and over by the US. Hell, Peter Pan could be Cuba for all I know.

oh can we try it :p
Please no. Last time ended in a large thread with Canuks and Yankees yelling at each other about is Canada could be said to exist.

Well, Arnold Toynbee said it best, "America is a large, friendly dog in a very small room. Every time it wags its tail, it knocks over a chair."


Well, I think that's a good way to put it.
I'm not overly sure about the "friendly" bit though. I think more vaguely well-intentioned, but overly-excitable dog.
Well, maybe.

There's a part where Peter is fighting Hook on Skull Rock and Hook plays unfair, causing Peter to freeze, because, as Mr. Barry put it, Peter always forgets that unfairness exists, so every time he encounters it, 'tis like the first time for a child, a moment of rage and pain in finding out that the world is not fair.

That's how the US tends to be, like Peter Pan.So if we are Peter pan.. then I guess we always play Fair.. because we are like an Innocent child.
we are fair and the World is unfair

That must have come as one hell of a surprise to the Imperial Japanese Navy... I mean, seeing something that hadn't been invented yet tends to do that to people.

*Thinking of Animal House* Let him go, he's on a roll...

Please no. Last time ended in a large thread with Canuks and Yankees yelling at each other about is Canada could be said to exist.

dam and i was not around to see that :(
how about Australia burns down DC

So if we are Peter pan.. then I guess we alway play Fair.
*sighs* I didn't say it was a one to one allegory, mainly I wanted to use the example of Peter's memory and perpetual innocence about the world because of it.

Umm, no offense man, but we already know what that's like. its called Pearl Harbor, when the Japanese Kamikaze pilots attacked suddenly in the morning. Its called the American Revolution and the Civil War, where brother fought against brother. Its called ethnic riots, where people throw flaming liquor bottles into windows...

How do we not understand when we have gone through all that?

Not even close. Hawai'i wasn't a US state at the time, and we helped Japan decide to attack through oil embargoes and like sanctions for their aggression in Manchuria. I'm not saying we shouldn't have acted to deter Japan, rather that you can't be surprised when you squeeze the artery of a whole nation and they retaliate in the only way that they really could (and cause any damage). Pearl Harbor was a tragedy, but it wasn't 9/11.

The US Civil War was indeed brutal, but nothing compared to the sheer randomness and scale of what's happening in Iraq. Plus, news flash, it happened 142 years ago, and rules of war back then didn't permit the IED, child soldiers, suicide bombers -- and the technology wasn't a fifth as sophisticated (which is not to say accurate...).

Nice try.

Well, I think that's a good way to put it.
I'm not overly sure about the "friendly" bit though. I think more vaguely well-intentioned, but overly-excitable dog.
Well, maybe.
Naw, I think friendly works.

dam and i was not around to see that :(
how about Australia burns down DC
Go for it! :p

Hey, don't rip him/her to pieces!

Someone's walking a thin line here...
Hahahaha.
Vhat exaktly do you mean?
Please no. Last time ended in a large thread with Canuks and Yankees yelling at each other about is Canada could be said to exist.
Now, if we could get some Mexicans to join in the quarrel and let it escalate into a nice North American conflict...
*strokes cat*
*chuckles*
...my plans would've come to fruition. :D

Should we have our fights in US of A?

I’m an Iraqi. We are now suffering for years and it will get worse.

It’s the US of A who started this game, so I propose to stop playing IN Iraq and have our game in the cities of the US.

Those rednecks like to shoot, we’ll they will learn to shoot or be killed.

Yes, cars with babies inside will explode in front of their own eyes.

Yes, people want to visit a son, a mother, a nephew and arrive and cry cause they discover they are death.

Yes, they will know what it is like, losing 150.000 people in no time.

Maybe, it will teach US Citizen not to vote again for a dumb lunatic farmer.
Nice one!

Well, American mother, are you proud about your son?

Are you proud that he’s part of an illegal invasion power?

Are you proud that he killed another 6 year old boy yesterday?

Are you proud about the 150.000 people that are killed last week?

Well, American mother?

Okay, enough of the fake emotional appeal horseshit. Mothers have no control over what their children do as soldiers, and you know it. No more than Sunni or Shi'a mothers have control over their children wielding weapons or strapping bombs to their small chests. Take that argument somewhere else, it won't play here.

[QUOTE=German Nightmare;12693621]Vhat exaktly do you mean?

Oh nothing, nothing at all...
BTW, I love your plan =).

Go for it! :p
Britain already did that in the war of 1812. The only reason the white house is white, is 'cos thy paint it!:D

how about Australia burns down DC

Please don't. I rather like my home, and if you burned it down I'd probably personally kick the snot out of you.

US and UK bombed civil targets in Iraq.

That is making them terrorists.

Blair and Bush, both deserve the same punishment as Saddam.

no your a terrorist when you resort to terror tactics. IF the Brits or US specifically aimed for civilian targets, to get the iraqi to surrender, you'd be right. but they have'nt.

Not even close. Hawai'i wasn't a US state at the time, and we helped Japan decide to attack through oil embargoes and like sanctions for their aggression in Manchuria. I'm not saying we shouldn't have acted to deter Japan, rather that you can't be surprised when you squeeze the artery of a whole nation and they retaliate in the only way that they really could (and cause any damage). Pearl Harbor was a tragedy, but it wasn't 9/11.

The US Civil War was indeed brutal, but nothing compared to the sheer randomness and scale of what's happening in Iraq. Plus, news flash, it happened 142 years ago, and rules of war back then didn't permit the IED, child soldiers, suicide bombers -- and the technology wasn't a fifth as sophisticated (which is not to say accurate...).

Nice try.
And its not as tho the US made a lot of money from WW2...

Should we have our fights in US of A?

I’m an Iraqi. We are now suffering for years and it will get worse.

It’s the US of A who started this game, so I propose to stop playing IN Iraq and have our game in the cities of the US.

Those rednecks like to shoot, we’ll they will learn to shoot or be killed.

Yes, cars with babies inside will explode in front of their own eyes.

Yes, people want to visit a son, a mother, a nephew and arrive and cry cause they discover they are death.

Yes, they will know what it is like, losing 150.000 people in no time.Maybe, it will teach US Citizen not to vote again for a dumb lunatic farmer.

How dare you blame your ally for what your people are doing! We are helping you and your coutrymen quell your terrorist problem you ungrateful fuck! We are bleeding for you and you have no right to be so ungrateful. If all your countrymen were like you I wish we would stop helping them.

Well, Arnold Toynbee said it best, "America is a large, friendly dog in a very small room. Every time it wags its tail, it knocks over a chair."
That dog needs either to be disciplined, then - or taken to the doctor to see what's wrong with it. ;)
I think what you said is part of it, Americans usually DON'T learn from history. Have you ever read Peter Pan? There's a part where Peter is fighting Hook on Skull Rock and Hook plays unfair, causing Peter to freeze, because, as Mr. Barry put it, Peter always forgets that unfairness exists, so every time he encounters it, 'tis like the first time for a child, a moment of rage and pain in finding out that the world is not fair.
That's how the US tends to be, like Peter Pan.
Well, but the world we all live on and in ain't no frigging Never-Never-Land!
Sorry, but I think the US is Captain Hook.
He has a smooth tongue but is always trying to fuck up with everyone else. And he hates clocks because that reminds him that times goes by. And he seems to be paranoid because once he lost his hand (Pearl Harbor was atacked/September 11) and he thinks everyone is after him (terrorists everywhere).
Peter Pan is the poor world, that gets fucked over and over by the US. Hell, Peter Pan could be Cuba for all I know.
I think you're onto something. ;)
*sighs* I didn't say it was a one to one allegory, mainly I wanted to use the example of Peter's memory and perpetual innocence about the world because of it.
The U.S. is hardly innocent, though...

no your a terrorist when ....says you.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=terrorist
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=terror

no your a terrorist when you resort to terror tactics. IF the Brits or US specifically aimed for civilian targets, to get the iraqi to surrender, you'd be right. but they have'nt.
I would hope we went into Iraq for the best of reasons. I suspect we did'nt. I know we have fucked up. For our own future security it is time we all realised this.

says you.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=terrorist
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=terror

and so do the links you supplied...

Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

REIGN OF TERROR
4 : violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands <insurrection and revolutionary terror>

How dare you blame your ally for what your people are doing! We are helping you and your coutrymen quell your terrorist problem you ungrateful fuck! We are bleeding for you and you have no right to be so ungrateful. If all your countrymen were like you I wish we would stop helping them.

Wow, I love when people force alliances through the use of extensive military force. "I hitted you hard, now we're friends, no?"

How dare you blame your ally for what your people are doing! We are helping you and your coutrymen quell your terrorist problem you ungrateful fuck! We are bleeding for you and you have no right to be so ungrateful. If all your countrymen were like you I wish we would stop helping them.
You are frighteningly nieve.

How dare you blame your ally for what your people are doing! We are helping you and your coutrymen quell your terrorist problem you ungrateful fuck! We are bleeding for you and you have no right to be so ungrateful. If all your countrymen were like you I wish we would stop helping them.

There was no terrorist problem in Iraq before America invaded. And no, Hussein was no worse than your average Mid East tyrant. Also, you ought to watch your language. It is completely and totally unacceptable.

I wouldn't mind, as long as the trash truck hauls away all the dead bodies that would be up and down the street in front of my house.

I certainly think it is possible to have a guerrilla war inside America.

Hit, Shoot and Run.

We would use the same techniques as US is doing now.

There’s nothing brave about dropping heavy cluster bombs above civil areas.

You don’t need a huge force. Only a few thousand soldiers inside US is enough.
And getting guns is so easy in that country…

And you don’t need a brain to carry a gun.

Oh man, we could create some fearing panic.

What would you oversized fat American, what would you do if we would enter your local mall with a few dozen well trained professional soldiers, get some kills and run away, what would you do? Nothing, else you would be death meat.

Later on, you may cry about the coward attack, you may cry in front of entire US when your local TV station is broadcasting your tears.

Maybe then, you know how it feels to life in terror and pain. Would you?

Now you're just being deliberately ignorant. YOU'RE ALREADY DOING THAT IN YOUR OWN DAMNED COUNTRY. It isn't US soldiers strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up whatever anyone tries to build in your country. It's Iraqis, Syrians, and anyone else with a misguided love for Allah and a willingness to die for the cause (and $10,000 from a hidden Saudi backer).

Yeah, break into a mall with soldiers? Sure, you'll kill lots of cicilians that way, just like you're doing in Baghdad, Basra, Tikrit, Mosul, and all over your land. If you want the bloosdhed to end, the US pulling out isn't the place to start. That's the place to finish. FIrst you must STOP KILLING EACH OTHER.

Be honest, you knew that as soon as Saddam was deposed, it was open season on your Sunni, Shi'a or Kurd "neighbors" in Iraq. It isn't about the US presence, it's about you religious fanatics fighting for a THOUSAND YEARS about which rich, well-connected Muslim scion got to take over for Mohammed. That's just as stupid as Catholic vs. Protestant and twice as destructive because your culture is admittedly anti-life.

That's right. Bin Laden said it himself -- the terrorists will win because the US and other Western cultures value life and living, whereas Bin Laden and his maniacal followers do not. An enemy so willing to die is not ever truly defeated, especially when that motivation for a glorious death as a martyr is religiously inculcated from BIRTH.

So sure, come on over and bomb a few things. You'll stop the divsion in this nation's opinion, and HISTORY says that when THAT happens, WE win. You don't want to do what Japan did and truly "awaken a sleeping giant". 9/11 caused us to stir, but not truly waken.

I do think what we're doing in Iraq is deplorable, and my president is, unfortuately, a completely ignorant, self-absorbed fool. But don't think for a moment that coming over here would do anything but seal your fate, one way or another.

I suppose it would be quite shocking to find out that a close relative is in fact the Grim Reaper.

[/win]

This should really have ended the thread.

You are frighteningly nieve.

Did you mean "neve" (http://oseb79.free.fr/images/Stars/neve%20campbell%2001.jpg)?

Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

REIGN OF TERROR
4 : violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands <insurrection and revolutionary terror>I see nothing in there that would exonerate either the insurgents or MyDearLeader's imperial army.

The U.S. is hardly innocent, though...

I think naive would be a better term. Note that this term applies more to the US populace than the government, as the latter often uses it to it's advantage.

Did you mean "neve" (http://oseb79.free.fr/images/Stars/neve%20campbell%2001.jpg)?
Pulls out dictionary, curses bad spelling! NAIVE!

Now you're just being deliberately ignorant. YOU'RE ALREADY DOING THAT IN YOUR OWN DAMNED COUNTRY. It isn't US soldiers strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up whatever anyone tries to build in your country. It's Iraqis, Syrians, and anyone else with a misguided love for Allah and a willingness to die for the cause (and $10,000 from a hidden Saudi backer).

Yeah, break into a mall with soldiers? Sure, you'll kill lots of cicilians that way, just like you're doing in Baghdad, Basra, Tikrit, Mosul, and all over your land. If you want the bloosdhed to end, the US pulling out isn't the place to start. That's the place to finish. FIrst you must STOP KILLING EACH OTHER.

Be honest, you knew that as soon as Saddam was deposed, it was open season on your Sunni, Shi'a or Kurd "neighbors" in Iraq. It isn't about the US presence, it's about you religious fanatics fighting for a THOUSAND YEARS about which rich, well-connected Muslim scion got to take over for Mohammed. That's just as stupid as Catholic vs. Protestant and twice as destructive because your culture is admittedly anti-life.

That's right. Bin Laden said it himself -- the terrorists will win because the US and other Western cultures value life and living, whereas Bin Laden and his maniacal followers do not. An enemy so willing to die is not ever truly defeated, especially when that motivation for a glorious death as a martyr is religiously inculcated from BIRTH.

So sure, come on over and bomb a few things. You'll stop the divsion in this nation's opinion, and HISTORY says that when THAT happens, WE win. You don't want to do what Japan did and truly "awaken a sleeping giant". 9/11 caused us to stir, but not truly waken.

I do think what we're doing in Iraq is deplorable, and my president is, unfortuately, a completely ignorant, self-absorbed fool. But don't think for a moment that coming over here would do anything but seal your fate, one way or another.
Thing was, none of this was happening in Iraq till we invaded. Sadaam for all his wickedness had it under control.

Go for it! :p
that would make news
Please don't. I rather like my home, and if you burned it down I'd probably personally kick the snot out of you.

would be a army not just me

Thing was, none of this was happening in Iraq till we invaded. Sadaam for all his wickedness had it under control.

That is the sad thing really. He was a tyrant no doubt but he kept the people form killing each other. As much as he was killing ethnic Kurds, and others, he did keep tensions in check so the people were at least moderately safe from each other's stupidity...

Thing was, none of this was happening in Iraq till we invaded. Sadaam for all his wickedness had it under control.

Hello? Did you read my post? That fact was put forth in this paragraph:

Be honest, you knew that as soon as Saddam was deposed, it was open season on your Sunni, Shi'a or Kurd "neighbors" in Iraq. It isn't about the US presence, it's about you religious fanatics fighting for a THOUSAND YEARS about which rich, well-connected Muslim scion got to take over for Mohammed. That's just as stupid as Catholic vs. Protestant and twice as destructive because your culture is admittedly anti-life.

Saddam's oppression squelched everything, including sectarian turmoil -- as far as we know. It wasn't like Saddam would broadcast anything like insurgent attacks when he was in power. When you control the media, you control the message.

The problem is (and I am not being silly here>) we should have taken the advice of Laurence of Arabia! Iraq is a country created by Britain and France after WW1. Really it should have been three countrys, Sunni, Shite and Kurd.
We did the same antics in Africa and Created states like Ruanda. Look what ethnic problems that caused.

I shoulda put on my boots before wading into this bullshit.

TYurn the volume down a few notches, people. You don't have to feel calm about the topic, but you can try to discuss it calmly. Glorious Freedonia, Ban Liden, stop the playground namecalling. Step back for a while and cool down.

Ok, Brutal realism. We should leave Iraq withour tails between our legs. Then Iran and Bin Ladens mob can spend years kicking the shit out of each other.

I shoulda put on my boots before wading into this bullshit.

I should have thrown gasoline on it then lit it on fire... :headbang:

iread a quote from one of the US marine generals in Vietnam. He said that the US went in to save south Vietnam from communism. Thing was, the Vietnamese were fighting to reunite their country and they did'nt care if it was communist or not.
We went into Iraq to save it from Sadaam. Thing was, there was no real united country to save.

Hanged Modoc Jack, lost for 24 hours.

All I have to say here is that, have Americans really seen their military spending lately? Most countries struggle with their education budgets. Don't blame China for getting into debt, every year your military spendings keep increasing.

yeah get the Americans ignore Britain entirely we haven't done anything :p

lol! Hey where's the love? We bought your Spice Girl cd's!

lol! Hey where's the love? We bought your Spice Girl cd's!

should go to war with you for that :p

All I have to say here is that, have Americans really seen their military spending lately? Most countries struggle with their education budgets. Don't blame China for getting into debt, every year your military spendings keep increasing.
Nice one! Scare the yanks with talk of tax!:eek:

Don't look at me -- I voted against that dumb lunatic farmer.

All I have to say here is that, have Americans really seen their military spending lately? Most countries struggle with their education budgets. Don't blame China for getting into debt, every year your military spendings keep increasing.
Yeah, Bush just got another 100 billion for the war. 100 fuckin' BILLION!

Should we have our fights in US of A?

I’m an Iraqi. We are now suffering for years and it will get worse.

It’s the US of A who started this game, so I propose to stop playing IN Iraq and have our game in the cities of the US.

Those rednecks like to shoot, we’ll they will learn to shoot or be killed.

Yes, cars with babies inside will explode in front of their own eyes.

Yes, people want to visit a son, a mother, a nephew and arrive and cry cause they discover they are death.

Yes, they will know what it is like, losing 150.000 people in no time.

Maybe, it will teach US Citizen not to vote again for a dumb lunatic farmer.
Try it. The US military is holding back in Iraq. Do you really want to see what will happen to your people if you start launching attacks against the US homeland? Read up on the firebombing of Japanese cities. Read up on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Don't look at me -- I voted against that dumb lunatic farmer.
Did'nt matter, the hick fixed the election.:eek:

Try it. The US military is holding back in Iraq. Do you really want to see what will happen to your people if you start launching attacks against the US homelans? Read up on the firebombing of Japanese cities. Read up on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Read up on Dresden and Hamburg, and the Germans didn't have any successful attacks on the US homeland.

should go to war with you for that :p

You know you love the Spice Girls. :p

Read up on Dresden and Hamburg, and the Germans didn't have any successful attacks on the US homeland.

Dresden was done by the RAF, no?

Dresden was done by the RAF, no?

We bombed by day, the British bombed it by night.

Try it. The US military is holding back in Iraq. Do you really want to see what will happen to your people if you start launching attacks against the US homelans? Read up on the firebombing of Japanese cities. Read up on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Read up on "war crimes". Have a look at "world cuts off diplomatic and trade relations with US." Look at "US economy crashes." Try soup kitchens for the middle classes.
WE could just nuke the place but that means we are no better than our enemys.

You know you love the Spice Girls. :p

no i really don't

(launching attacks against the US homeland?) Try it.

Read up on the firebombing of Japanese cities. Read up on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.Osama -not only- did try it.

Bush is expending all our military effort in Iraq.. But as-far-as-I-know Osama is not in Iraq.

Bush says Osama is not a priority anymore.
When is Bush going to "Fire-bomb" Osama ?

Read up on "war crimes". Have a look at "world cuts off diplomatic and trade relations with US." Look at "US economy crashes." Try soup kitchens for the middle classes.
WE could just nuke the place but that means we are no better than our enemys.

Read up on multinational corporations, and the interconnected world economy.

Even a little bit of market jitters in China causes worldwide panic.

Try and unplug the US from the rest of the world - you'll be cutting your own throat.

Try worldwide revolution and anarchy for a hundred years...

We bombed by day, the British bombed it by night.
And the Russians asked us to. Different war, different morals.

Read up on "war crimes". Have a look at "world cuts off diplomatic and trade relations with US." Look at "US economy crashes." Try soup kitchens for the middle classes.
WE could just nuke the place but that means we are no better than our enemys.

Who cares about being better? What matters is being victorious and alive in the end. The world won't cut trade relations with the US. Shit, China and others still have robust trade relations with Sudan and they're in the middle of their second attempted genocide.

no i really don't

Actually neither do I. I just find it amusing that they were such a big fad for as long as they were.

Read up on multinational corporations, and the interconnected world economy.

Even a little bit of market jitters in China causes worldwide panic.

Try and unplug the US from the rest of the world - you'll be cutting your own throat.

Try worldwide revolution and anarchy for a hundred years...
So you think that you can get away with anything now? Then the US is no better than its enemys. Just use the constitution for toilet paper! The west is supposed to be morally better than that!

So you think that you can get away with anything now? Then the US is no better than its enemys. Just use the constitution for toilet paper! The west is supposed to be morally better than that!

First statement: Yes.
Second Statement: Yes (it's always been that way).
Third Statement: The Constitution really only applies to the US - fuck everyone else.
Fourth Statement: What a load of bollocks.

Who cares about being better? What matters is being victorious and alive in the end. The world won't cut trade relations with the US. Shit, China and others still have robust trade relations with Sudan and they're in the middle of their second attempted genocide.
YES IT DOES MATTER! The only reason your country and mine are worth defending is our democracy and moral standing. We have to be seen to act better, if only for our own self respect. You lot go on and on about freedom and the bloody constitution but when push comes to shove its barberous militarism that wins. And what is victory if it means WW3?

First statement: Yes.
Second Statement: Yes (it's always been that way).
Third Statement: The Constitution really only applies to the US - fuck everyone else.
Fourth Statement: What a load of bollocks.
YOU FASCIST ****

YES IT DOES MATTER! The only reason your country and mine are worth defending is our democracy and moral standing. We have to be seen to act better, if only for our own self respect. You lot go on and on about freedom and the bloody constitution but when push comes to shove its barberous militarism that wins. And what is victory if it means WW3?

Bullshit.

The reason our country is worth defending is that we like our lifestyle and position. That, and we like living more than dying, our right to live as we choose over enslavement to a 10th Century religion (or any religion for that matter).

So you think that you can get away with anything now? Then the US is no better than its enemys. Just use the constitution for toilet paper! The west is supposed to be morally better than that!

The US is better than it's enemies. We don't throw acid in women's faces if they're dressed slutty. We have free speech, even if it's criticizing religion and government. We don't kill each other over our religious differences. If you can't see the difference you're either willfully ignorant or just a dumb ass.

The constitution doesn't prohibit war against those who attack us. One of the first things the US did after the constitution was ratified was to kick the crap out of the Barbary pirates and attack Tripoli.

The US is better than it's enemies. We don't throw acid in women's faces if they're dressed slutty. We have free speech, even if it's criticizing religion and government. We don't kill each other over our religious differences. If you can't see the difference you're either willfully ignorant or just a dumb ass.

The constitution doesn't prohibit war against those who attack us. One of the first things the US did after the constitution was ratified was to kick the crap out of the Barbary pirates and attack Tripoli.

What is funny about that bit of history is that the Democrats recently trotted out Jefferson's copy of the Koran to show how enlightened and multicultural both they and Jefferson were.

Turns out that Jefferson only needed a copy to confirm what John Jay found out directly from an Arab ambassador about how they believe that they have the right to slaughter and enslave non-believers.

YES IT DOES MATTER! The only reason your country and mine are worth defending is our democracy and moral standing. We have to be seen to act better, if only for our own self respect. You lot go on and on about freedom and the bloody constitution but when push comes to shove its barberous militarism that wins. And what is victory if it means WW3?

NO IT DOESN'T MATTER! Not when you're attacked, as the OP proposed. Then the first priority is to defeat the enemy by whatever means necessary.

You would replace every star on the star spangled banner with a bloody swastika would'nt you. Let me give you a clue. Great Britain ruled the world in the 19th century, but it all went. Twats like you will destroy the US faster than Bin Laden ever could.

NO IT DOESN'T MATTER! Not when you're attacked, as the OP proposed. Then the first priority is to defeat the enemy by whatever means necessary.
Not if in the process you destroy everything you are trying to save.

Not if in the process you destroy everything you are trying to save.

Then you would have had a problem with Abraham Lincoln.

The man suspended habeas corpus for the duration of the Civil War.

Detained and executed people without trial.

Held the Maryland legislature at Federal Army gunpoint to force them to vote to stay in the Union.

After the war, the emergency measures were removed.

You were saying?

Not if in the process you destroy everything you are trying to save.

What would we be destroying that can't be reestablished after the emergency is over? In WWII the US censored speech because it was necessary for the war effort. It placed Japanese Americans into internment camps. That was not necessary, but it was thought to be necessary at the time. Everything went back to normal after the war.

Trying to fight a war while being nice is a stupid idea. It only gets you bogged down in long, drawn out, expensive and exhausting campaigns. If you're going to fight a war go all out or don't do it at all. That's something that should have been taken into account before Iraq. Maybe it would have convinced the Bush administration not to go ahead with that bullshit.

NO IT DOESN'T MATTER! Not when you're attacked, as the OP proposed. Then the first priority is to defeat the enemy by whatever means necessary.
You got the first bit of terrorism you ever had and shit yourselves! Then you sent your trailer trash army to Iraq and fucked up! If you tried to get really hard on the terrorists you would only bomb your own troops cos your armed forces are sooo dumb!

You would replace every star on the star spangled banner with a bloody swastika would'nt you. Let me give you a clue. Great Britain ruled the world in the 19th century, but it all went. Twats like you will destroy the US faster than Bin Laden ever could.

Watch your fucking language. There are moderators on this board who will ban you for insulting people. It doesn't help your point, only makes you look like an idiot with no real argument. I would love to insult the shit out of you, but I'm keeping myself in check because I don't want to be banned. Grow up and stop arguing like a fucking twelve year old. If you've got a point, make it or shut the fuck up.

What would we be destroying that can't be reestablished after the emergency is over? In WWII the US censored speech because it was necessary for the war effort. It placed Japanese Americans into internment camps. That was not necessary, but it was thought to be necessary at the time. Everything went back to normal after the war.

Trying to fight a war while being nice is a stupid idea. It only gets you bogged down in long, drawn out, expensive and exhausting campaigns. If you're going to fight a war go all out or don't do it at all. That's something that should have been taken into account before Iraq. Maybe it would have convinced the Bush administration not to go ahead with that bullshit.
But bombing a country into the stone age when you are occupying it is hardly censorship is it? And get off this "we are the US, we can do what we like" bullshit.remember vietnam. LOOK WHAT THAT COST YOU! Are we goingto have to fight against every moslem country in the world cos you wanna throw your weight about? If the west is gonna beat fundamentalist terrorism we have to do it right.

Watch your fucking language. There are moderators on this board who will ban you for insulting people. It doesn't help your point, only makes you look like an idiot with no real argument. I would love to insult the shit out of you, but I'm keeping myself in check because I don't want to be banned. Grow up and stop arguing like a fucking twelve year old. If you've got a point, make it or shut the fuck up.
I am sorry but the point being made was bloody revolting. It went against everything my country and yours is ment to stand for. And that is far worse than a bit of swearing.

YOU FASCIST ****

There is no need for name calling.

Let's try and keep this civil people. We can debate calmly without resorting to flame-baiting and flaming. Remember, only you can prevent forum fires!

But bombing a country into the stone age when you are occupying it is hardly censorship is it? And get off this "we are the US, we can do what we like" bullshit.remember vietnam. LOOK WHAT THAT COST YOU! Are we goingto have to fight against every moslem country in the world cos you wanna throw your weight about? If the west is gonna beat fundamentalist terrorism we have to do it right.

1) I was never in favor of invading Iraq.

2) We're not, nor have we in the past bombed Iraq into the stone age.

3) I stated that if Iraq launched attacks against the US (hypothetical situation) It would end up being bombed to shit. Reading comprehension is kind of important. Work on it.

4) What did Vietnam cost us? Not all that much really. It cost the North Vietnamese much more in terms of lives and locked them into poverty to this day. They've come to the US to make nice and ask for help to be included in the WTO.

5) No. We don't have to fight against any nation that doesn't attack us.

6) Yeah, we do. And doing it right may mean that sometimes we're going to have to do some serious damage.

1) I was never in favor of invading Iraq.

2) We're not, nor have we in the past bombed Iraq into the stone age.

3) I stated that if Iraq launched attacks against the US (hypothetical situation) It would end up being bombed to shit. Reading comprehension is kind of important. Work on it.

4) What did Vietnam cost us? Not all that much really. It cost the North Vietnamese much more in terms of lives and locked them into poverty to this day. They've come to the US to make nice and ask for help to be included in the WTO.

5) No. We don't have to fight against any nation that doesn't attack us.

6) Yeah, we do. And doing it right may mean that sometimes we're going to have to do some serious damage.50,000 dead. The American dream dead. Go talk to a Vet like that. see what he says.

50,000 dead. The American dream dead. Go talk to a Vet like that. see what he says.

The Vietnam vets I talked to didn't have any problem except the fact that we gave up.

I think naive would be a better term. Note that this term applies more to the US populace than the government, as the latter often uses it to it's advantage.
Oh great. A naive superpower. What more can you ask for? :headbang:
That is the sad thing really. He was a tyrant no doubt but he kept the people form killing each other. As much as he was killing ethnic Kurds, and others, he did keep tensions in check so the people were at least moderately safe from each other's stupidity...
Looks like Saddam indeed was the lesser of two evils.

I still don't understand why multi-ethnic states were put on the map like that. The colony powers really could've used more sense.
The problem is (and I am not being silly here>) we should have taken the advice of Laurence of Arabia! Iraq is a country created by Britain and France after WW1. Really it should have been three countrys, Sunni, Shite and Kurd.
We did the same antics in Africa and Created states like Ruanda. Look what ethnic problems that caused.
I have to agree with you.
Dresden was done by the RAF, no?
No, they came at night, the USAAF during the day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

And if anything, it was done by the Allies.
Read up on multinational corporations, and the interconnected world economy.
Even a little bit of market jitters in China causes worldwide panic.
Try and unplug the US from the rest of the world - you'll be cutting your own throat.
Try worldwide revolution and anarchy for a hundred years...
I wouldn't bet on that, though. The rest of the world could turn their backs on the United States... After all, there was a world before 1492 and 1776...
Who cares about being better? What matters is being victorious and alive in the end.
Oh great. Just what the world really needed. :rolleyes:

There was no terrorist problem in Iraq before America invaded. And no, Hussein was no worse than your average Mid East tyrant. Also, you ought to watch your language. It is completely and totally unacceptable.

Hey the f-word is a whole lot less offensive than some puke saying that the US is the bad guy when we are the ones defending him from evil terrorists!

iread a quote from one of the US marine generals in Vietnam. He said that the US went in to save south Vietnam from communism. Thing was, the Vietnamese were fighting to reunite their country and they did'nt care if it was communist or not.
We went into Iraq to save it from Sadaam. Thing was, there was no real united country to save.

Hey we that general was right. The N. Vietnamese and Viet Cong were fighting to unite the nation under the commies.

There were disparate guerilla groups in Vietnam during the fight against the Japs.

We made the world much safer from Sadaam and avenged his attack on a former president. No dictator can ever be allowed to live who messes with a current or former president of the USA.

Hey the f-word is a whole lot less offensive than some puke saying that the US is the bad guy when we are the ones defending him from evil terrorists!
The terrorists are only there because the US created a climate of anarchy by toppling the only system of order that existed in Iraq; the only system that kept a lid on the tensions. The US provoked the terrorists, most of whom aren't even Iraqi in some cases.

I will not deny that there aren't terrorists in the Middle East, though Iraq before the invasion was not a hotbed for terrorism. It was moderately secular despite having a strong Muslim population.

Saying that the US is protecting Iraq from the terrorists is like saying you're someone's friend after giving them a bloody nose and trashing their home.

The terrorists are only there because the US created a climate of anarchy by toppling the only system of order that existed in Iraq; the only system that kept a lid on the tensions. The US provoked the terrorists, most of whom aren't even Iraqi in some cases.

I will not deny that there aren't terrorists in the Middle East, though Iraq before the invasion was not a hotbed for terrorism. It was moderately secular despite having a strong Muslim population.

Saying that the US is protecting Iraq from the terrorists is like saying you're someone's friend after giving them a bloody nose and trashing their home.
I can only agree with you.

sure, just stay out of Canada...were innocent like the British :p

Should we have our fights in US of A?

I’m an Iraqi. We are now suffering for years and it will get worse.

It’s the US of A who started this game, so I propose to stop playing IN Iraq and have our game in the cities of the US.

Those rednecks like to shoot, we’ll they will learn to shoot or be killed.

Yes, cars with babies inside will explode in front of their own eyes.

Yes, people want to visit a son, a mother, a nephew and arrive and cry cause they discover they are death.

Yes, they will know what it is like, losing 150.000 people in no time.

Maybe, it will teach US Citizen not to vote again for a dumb lunatic farmer.

WHO DO YOU WORK FOR!?

Well, American mother, are you proud about your son?

Are you proud that he’s part of an illegal invasion power?

Are you proud that he killed another 6 year old boy yesterday?

Are you proud about the 150.000 people that are killed last week?

Well, American mother?

Woah, 1 person killing 150k per week. Must be a monster of a shot.

YOU FASCIST CUNTFirst statement: Yes.
Second Statement: Yes (it's always been that way).
Third Statement: The Constitution really only applies to the US - fuck everyone else.
Fourth Statement: What a load of bollocks.Twats like you will destroy the US faster than Bin Laden ever could.
Ogdens nutgone flake in particular, but everyone in this thread in general, knock off the flaming and flamebait, and start cutting back of the abusive and offensive language. Waaay back. Do it NOW.

Hey the f-word is a whole lot less offensive than some puke saying that the US is the bad guy when we are the ones defending him from evil terrorists!
GF, that's not fact, that's your opinion. The fact that someone disagrees with you does not give you the right to flame them.

I can't be bothered to slap everyone in this thread with Trolling warnings, so I'll just say this. Nationism =/= Truth. If you have a strong opinion about the way certain world leaders are running things, you can and will get feedback from people who feel the opposite way. If you can't handle that politely on this board, then leave. Period.



Hanged Modoc Jack, lost for 24 hours.
Made permanent due to privileged Game Mod information. He'll be back, of course.

It’s the US of A who started this game, so I propose to stop playing IN Iraq and have our game in the cities of the US.

Did we? Or did Saddam Hussein start this game? I mean, if he had not invaded Kuwait illegally, we would not be where we are today. If he had fully complied with the UN Resolutions, the US would not have gone in.

This in no way excuses the government for poor planning and not seeing if the intelligence was correct but one must look at all the facts.

Those rednecks like to shoot, we’ll they will learn to shoot or be killed.

Nice stereotype. NOT!!!

Umm, no offense man, but we already know what that's like. its called Pearl Harbor, when the Japanese Kamikaze pilots attacked suddenly in the morning.

Hate to break this to you but they were not Kamikaze pilots back then.

US and UK bombed civil targets in Iraq.

That is making them terrorists.

Blair and Bush, both deserve the same punishment as Saddam.

Yep. Definitely a troll.

Who else has doubts this guy's actually from Iraq?

Should we have our fights in US of A?

I’m an Iraqi. We are now suffering for years and it will get worse.

It’s the US of A who started this game, so I propose to stop playing IN Iraq and have our game in the cities of the US.

Those rednecks like to shoot, we’ll they will learn to shoot or be killed.

Yes, cars with babies inside will explode in front of their own eyes.

Yes, people want to visit a son, a mother, a nephew and arrive and cry cause they discover they are death.

Yes, they will know what it is like, losing 150.000 people in no time.

Maybe, it will teach US Citizen not to vote again for a dumb lunatic farmer.

Well, you are an Iraqi, which means you are not American, which you should be at least basically educated. Which means you ought to know by know that the whole world is controlled by bankers and occult leaders who are simply playing us against ourselves for their own perverse amusement. STAND UP FOR WHAT'S RIGHT. STAND UP FOR THE NEW WORLD ORDER.

Wow such a loaded topic.

Well, you are an Iraqi, which means you are not American, which you should be at least basically educated. Which means you ought to know by know that the whole world is controlled by bankers and occult leaders who are simply playing us against ourselves for their own perverse amusement. STAND UP FOR WHAT'S RIGHT. STAND UP FOR THE NEW WORLD ORDER.

New World Order? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLXM8EdKtko)

Look at his name. Ban Laden. Ban Laden.

I've rarely seen someone predict their fate as a poster so well. Not since LG.

Looks like the fish are biting...

By the way, whose puppet are you?

I'm pretty sure the fourth option show it's actually someone fairly sane.

Yep. Definitely a troll.

:D :p

*I hope I've taken this in the spirit it was delivered.

Read up on "war crimes". Have a look at "world cuts off diplomatic and trade relations with US." Look at "US economy crashes." Try soup kitchens for the middle classes.
WE could just nuke the place but that means we are no better than our enemys.

an interesting idea, the only problem is that the rest of the world literally can't afford to that. If the US economy were to experience something like that it would not be to long before the rest of the worlds economy's experienced a massive hit, as in completely crashing.
Read up on multinational corporations, and the interconnected world economy.

Even a little bit of market jitters in China causes worldwide panic.

Try and unplug the US from the rest of the world - you'll be cutting your own throat.

Try worldwide revolution and anarchy for a hundred years...

RO said it better than i did

Maybe, it will teach US Citizen not to vote again for a dumb lunatic farmer.

Ummm... I'm 18 and haven't voted in a presidential election yet. Can I be excused? How about my mom and brother too? The both voted for Gore and Kerry.

I doubt you had the capacity to wreak THAT extend of havoc in the 19th century.

I suggest you look at the devestation in the South. It rivals it.

Who else has doubts this guy's actually from Iraq?

*raises hand*

I like it better when you have your fights in the Middle East.

Who else has doubts this guy's actually from Iraq?
If I actually is, it makes me very angry towards Iraq and its people. Good job, OP dude.

Anyone else notice that almost every fact or statisc he posted is partly or wholly innaccurate? Like 150K Iraqi civillians killed every month or the war? And the local PD, SWAT, or National Guard not even responding to a major terrorist attack in a populous area?

The problem is (and I am not being silly here>) we should have taken the advice of Laurence of Arabia! Iraq is a country created by Britain and France after WW1. Really it should have been three countrys, Sunni, Shite and Kurd.
We did the same antics in Africa and Created states like Ruanda. Look what ethnic problems that caused.

Sure and what about Boring Belgium?

Also created by the English, French and others.

And you have 3 groups living in it: Flemish, Walloons and a kind of Germans.

They don't kill each other!

Saddam was a bastard, but it was our bastard!

And yes he kept everyone in line. No he was not a nice man, but in those times I could go safely to the stores.

And it wasn't that bad overthere as your media was really creating the news. Judge Iraqi by middle east opinions, not western ones.

In Iran, a country close by ours, women can't wear what they want. In another land, friends of US of A, women can't even drive a car!
In our land women could go to school. Btw, that one is now not possible anymore, in the end women will have the same (no) rights as in Iran.

Oh yes, I thank America for invading us. My country is destroyed. Thanks a lot!

I'm just going to jump in here randomly. Here comes a signature Hamilay bad analogy, giving my opinion on the Iraq war. I'm going to get flamed for this, although I don't know how, but meh.

A man owns a house. Another man comes along and says he can help renovate and make the house better. Man number 2, without asking, proceeds to try to do so, but he ends up smashing the house to pieces. Most importantly, the windows and the security system are destroyed, and burglars come in and start stealing man 1's stuff. Man 2 is sorry and proceeds to camp out in the house to protect it from these burglars. Man 2 does sincerely try to do so, and is injured in the process, but doesn't do a very good job of it.

So, uh, what I'm trying to say here, is that yes, the Iraqis have every right to be rather irritated at the USA, but at this point in time, the USA is trying to rebuild the country and protect it from (Iraqi and otherwise) terrorists, and it is in the best interests of the Iraqis to cooperate. Of course, it's their country, and they're the ones who will get screwed if the US withdraws, so if they want the USA out, that should be respected.

The US is better than it's enemies. We don't throw acid in women's faces if they're dressed slutty. We have free speech, even if it's criticizing religion and government. We don't kill each other over our religious differences. If you can't see the difference you're either willfully ignorant or just a dumb ass.

The constitution doesn't prohibit war against those who attack us. One of the first things the US did after the constitution was ratified was to kick the crap out of the Barbary pirates and attack Tripoli.

That's right! Look what happened to that poor Miss Jackson for showing a niple!

Free speech? Sure, I remember something, in the beginning of this stupid war, when press people had the guts to say that it was maybe not that smart to go to Iraq, they were accused of being bad patriot ones, lots of them lost their job!

You don't kill each other for religious matters? No? Sure? Never heard of the several killings of doctors and nurses working at abortion hospitals?

Please...

I'm not sure whether Ban Liden really is an Iraqi. A detailed description of some part of the city where he/she lives, or an actual recounting of horror seen with his/her eyes, would go a long way towards giving the OP credibility.

I'm not demanding a name or street address. I'm not denying Ban Liden the anonymity which posters have here ... I'm just saying that with such a tiny post-count, there isn't much credibility to the "you Americans have destroyed my world" tenor of BL's posts.

Talks like an American, too.

Should we have our fights in US of A?

I’m an Iraqi. We are now suffering for years and it will get worse.

It’s the US of A who started this game, so I propose to stop playing IN Iraq and have our game in the cities of the US.

Those rednecks like to shoot, we’ll they will learn to shoot or be killed.

Yes, cars with babies inside will explode in front of their own eyes.

Yes, people want to visit a son, a mother, a nephew and arrive and cry cause they discover they are death.

Yes, they will know what it is like, losing 150.000 people in no time.

Maybe, it will teach US Citizen not to vote again for a dumb lunatic farmer.

You should know that Americans elected G.W. without the intention of going to war with anyone. Be pissed off at our president and his lackey administration who pulled everyone into this conflict. Blood is on his hands, not mine.

I voted for Gore btw.

You should know that Americans elected G.W. without the intention of going to war with anyone. Be pissed off at our president and his lackey administration who pulled everyone into this conflict. Blood is on his hands, not mine.

I voted for Gore btw.

He was never elected the first time, but the second time he was, no? I never understood that one, they did not want him the first time, he created some mess and as a gift they reward him with a new presidential run.

Oh btw, I do not hate Americans or America. They have great prostitutes anyway.

About 50% of the Americans didn’t want to invade my glorious nation. The other 50% are just sheep animals. And you can’t be mad about such nice animals. Just a few business- and military people and politicians agreed about the invasion. It are the same people who are not in the frontlines of this war. Neither are their children.

It are not the retarded nephews of mr B. that catch the bullets, that’s more a job for the Jerry Springer invites.

He was never elected the first time, but the second time he was, no? I never understood that one, they did not want him the first time, he created some mess and as a gift they reward him with a new presidential run.

Oh btw, I do not hate Americans or America. They have great prostitutes anyway.

About 50% of the Americans didn’t want to invade my glorious nation. The other 50% are just sheep animals. And you can’t be mad about such nice animals. Just a few business- and military people and politicians agreed about the invasion. It are the same people who are not in the frontlines of this war. Neither are their children.

It are not the retarded nephews of mr B. that catch the bullets, that’s more a job for the Jerry Springer invites.

That clinches it. You're no Iraqi -- you are a troll.

Whatever sympathy you hoped to garner for ordinary Iraqis, living in fear of their lives and in fear for their country, has been shovelled into the ugly hole where your self-respect ought to be.

Shame on you.

Should we have our fights in US of A?

I’m an Iraqi. We are now suffering for years and it will get worse.

It’s the US of A who started this game, so I propose to stop playing IN Iraq and have our game in the cities of the US.

Those rednecks like to shoot, we’ll they will learn to shoot or be killed.

Yes, cars with babies inside will explode in front of their own eyes.

Yes, people want to visit a son, a mother, a nephew and arrive and cry cause they discover they are death.

Yes, they will know what it is like, losing 150.000 people in no time.

Maybe, it will teach US Citizen not to vote again for a dumb lunatic farmer.

Actually Americans are as used to terrorism as middle easteners. In a way it's already happening. LA and New Orleans are like Iraq with people running rampant from different groups killing each other. America is already suffering in the way you described. Not to mention the school shootings, I was at school when a phycho came there and we all had a lock down. Its happening in both Iraq and America.

And here's a sadder fact, America is so apathetic to this shit now because its so common, that they are beginning to enjoy it or why else would being gangster (US version of terrorist some parts) be glorified. More than 150000 people have already died as a result of gang wars, school shootings, and high crime rates and they are allowed to terrorise people.

What you just said is like suggesting to a McDonald's manager "hey mate, you should start making burgers and special deals called 'happy meals'."

That clinches it. You're no Iraqi -- you are a troll.

Whatever sympathy you hoped to garner for ordinary Iraqis, living in fear of their lives and in fear for their country, has been shovelled into the ugly hole where your self-respect ought to be.

Shame on you.

I wonder how well his arabic is?


هل يمكنك الكتابة باللغه العربية كيف حمارك؟

I wonder how well his arabic is?


?? ????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ??? ????? ????


WOA dude sweet arabic....... how did you do it?

I don't know the first posts by Ban Laden and the other Iraqi guy I can understand, I would feel the same way if a country just came in and invaded. I think though that we had the initiative in the begining but we screwed our advantage and window of opportunity by:

1. An under sized millitary force with a large force of private contractors who are only there to make a profit and really don't give a care to what their doing bad or good.

2. The CPA was full of political appointees who were simply picked for their political loyalty.

3. Our general lack of understanding about Iraqs people and culture just aggravated it

4. Our new definitions on how to hold a terrorist when captured which is not covered in the Geneva convention

Theres probably alot more but I think these are the four main pillars on why we failed in Iraq.

I call bs on the OP. If he is Iraqi then he will answer me in Arabic. Then we will see if he is truly an Iraqi.

WOA dude sweet arabic....... how did you do it?

.

Keyboard is in Arabic.

I call bs on the OP. If he is Iraqi then he will answer me in Arabic. Then we will see if he is truly an Iraqi.

That would be not any proof at all.

Lots of Iraqi do not speak Arabian at all.

Some of them master only Kurdish, Assyrian or Armenian.

It's even possible that I am not able to speak any of the above language.
I could be Iraqi from birth, but maybe I grew up abroad...

The US government created similar mistakes as you are doing now:
Having a strong belief in preassumptions...

And that's how the war started, no? By preassumptions...

That would be not any proof at all.

Lots of Iraqi do not speak Arabian at all.

Some of them master only Kurdish, Assyrian or Armenian.

It's even possible that I am not able to speak any of the above language.
I could be Iraqi from birth, but maybe I grew up abroad...

The US government created similar mistakes as you are doing now:
Having a strong belief in preassumptions...

And that's how the war started, no? By preassumptions...

*cough Bullshit *cough.

*cough Bullshit *cough.

Thanks for agreeing with me. You don't attack my opinions but instead you play the man.

I don't feel any pressure to proof I'm Iraqi or not.
I'm wondering if I could do it anyway. You would never be sure.

Can you proof you're human?

Thanks for agreeing with me. You don't attack my opinions but instead you play the man.

I don't feel any pressure to proof I'm Iraqi or not.
I'm wondering if I could do it anyway. You would never be sure.

Can you proof you're human?

Ok, clown. I served in Iraq. I read and speak Arabic on the net with many people from the Middle East. I have a personal friend that is Iraqi. I know a bit more then the average bear. I have never met an Iraqi that could not speak Arabic. So your telling me that your legit? I say your not but just a troll as was said earlier in the post. By the mere fact you cannot respond to me in the Iraqi national language verifies what I thought when I first saw your post.

Ok, clown. I served in Iraq. I read and speak Arabic on the net with many people from the Middle East. I have a personal friend that is Iraqi. I know a bit more then the average bear. I have never met an Iraqi that could not speak Arabic. So your telling me that your legit? I say your not but just a troll as was said earlier in the post. By the mere fact you cannot respond to me in the Iraqi national language verifies what I thought when I first saw your post.

First of all, I did not say I am not able to speak Arabian.

Secondly, Kurdish, Assyrian or Armenian or also national official languages of Iraq. But you as former invader knows it better, isn't? Did you met all Iraqis?

Thirdly, lots of real Americans, born and raised in US, can't speak English. Are they less American if they do?

I call bs on the OP. If he is Iraqi then he will answer me in Arabic. Then we will see if he is truly an Iraqi.
غوغل هو رفيقك؟

I mean - that doesn't prove I'm an Iraqi. Or does it? (Not saying that Ban Liden is or is not - I enjoy the points he raised. ;))

غوغل هو رفيقك؟

I mean - that doesn't prove I'm an Iraqi. Or does it? (Not saying that Ban Liden is or is not - I enjoy the points he raised. ;))

But for what you said you could get a fatwa :p

But for what you said you could get a fatwa :p

Translate for us monolinguals who only speak proper English. ;)

Translate for us monolinguals who only speak proper English. ;)

The first guy is asking if he is writing in Arab and the last one is saying something as "Google is a friend"

And that's the whole point, I don't think it is hard to find some translation software on the net...

Translate for us monolinguals who only speak proper English. ;)

And http://en.wikipedia.org would teach you the next about a fatwa

A fatwā (Arabic: فتوى; plural fatāwā Arabic: فتاوى), is a considered opinion in Islam made by a mufti, a scholar capable of issuing judgments on Sharia (Islamic law). Usually a fatwa is issued at the request of an individual or a judge to settle a question where fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence) is unclear.

The first guy is asking if he is writing in Arab and the last one is saying something as "Google is a friend"

And that's the whole point, I don't think it is hard to find some translation software on the net...

I know, I'm just a groggy Canuck who's only been up for a few minutes and can't find the short-cut to my favourite online translator. :)

However, I do know what a fatwa is even if I don't speak another language other than Hoser. ;)

On this whole tangency about Ban Liden being an Iraqi or a troll. Has anyone noticed that his arguments, grammar and eloquence has drastically increased from the childish ranting that started this red hot thread?

I know, I'm just a groggy Canuck who's only been up for a few minutes and can't find the short-cut to my favourite online translator. :)

However, I do know what a fatwa is even if I don't speak another language other than Hoser. ;)

Your compassion for the OP earlier in the thread speaks well of your character.

You gave Ban Liden the benefit of the doubt, and held out a friendly hand.

I on the other hand noticed the witty transposition of vowels. I saw an OP which deserved to be locked as flamebait, save for the words "I am an Iraqi." I saw a poster whose every word was inflammatory.

I no longer trust my judgement, my own words are misleading me. I will reserve my energy for the big, big apology I will have to make if Ban Liden is in fact not a liar and a troll.

EDIT: Kramakasana, not really. The second half of BL's most recent post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12697013&postcount=203) is in fact a cut-n-paste from Wiki.

When you are forumbanned, it means you cannot post with ANY of your puppets until the ban is over.

Your compassion for the OP earlier in the thread speaks well of your character.

You gave Ban Liden the benefit of the doubt, and held out a friendly hand.

I on the other hand noticed the witty transposition of vowels. I saw an OP which deserved to be locked as flamebait, save for the words "I am an Iraqi." I saw a poster whose every word was inflammatory.

I no longer trust my judgement, my own words are misleading me. I will reserve my energy for the big, big apology I will have to make if Ban Liden is in fact not a liar and a troll.

EDIT: Kramakasana, not really. The second half of BL's most recent post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12697013&postcount=203) is in fact a cut-n-paste from Wiki.
I thought that maybe it was a chance to hear to voice of someone who was living in the crossfire hurricane. I saw it as a chance to hopefully learn something new, so I reached out on a faint hope that maybe this person would give us a different perspective.

We have the news, but it's never the same as hearing something first hand, even if it is biased. Everything has a bias to it if you look hard enough. Nothing is free of bias.

I know that many people speak English even if not from countries we expect English speakers from.

I knew an Iraqi immigrant family who had come to Canada in the 90s and they spoke decent enough English. They were able to fit in pretty early and it was easy to speak to them because there was no true language barrier other than the accents, which is easy to get around after a little talking.

I don't like to judge quickly because I was judged quickly as a child and I resented it, and I resented never being given the benefit of the doubt.

If in the end BL is lying, I will feel bad, but not because I didn't do the right thing but because I bought his story. But that won't change how I react to others.

On this whole tangency about Ban Liden being an Iraqi or a troll. Has anyone noticed that his arguments, grammar and eloquence has drastically increased from the childish ranting that started this red hot thread?
Well, people improve from their first post onward, or at least that's what we expect will happen.

But for what you said you could get a fatwa :p
:eek: Oh noes! ;)

The second half of BL's most recent post is in fact a cut-n-paste from Wiki. I'm inclined to agree with you there.
Something else is that, and I'm making an estimate here, is that If BL is genuine, then he's most likely a migrant, living outside of Iraq to avoid persecution.
What is it that most immigrant children hear from their parents?
The Old Country.
BL's complete lack of annecdotes is one sign, and claims to have no knowledge of Arabic is an easy way to avoid be trumped. If he is from the Kurds, or one of the other people, then they're usually very protective of their heritage (this applies to humans in general), and in 90% of cases would identify first by ethnic group and then by nationality. Especially when it comes to places like Africa or the Middle East where a lot of groups occupy the same territory.

Umm, no offense man, but we already know what that's like. its called Pearl Harbor, when the Japanese Kamikaze pilots attacked suddenly in the morning. Its called the American Revolution and the Civil War, where brother fought against brother. Its called ethnic riots, where people throw flaming liquor bottles into windows...

How do we not understand when we have gone through all that?

Kamikazes didn't start until Japan was losing the war, much later. There were none involved with Pearl Harbor.

America has been largely spared the consequences of full-on warfare since the civil war.

Kamikazes didn't start until Japan was losing the war, much later. There were none involved with Pearl Harbor.

America has been largely spared the consequences of full-on warfare since the civil war.

America has been largely spared the consequences of full-on warfare, period.

America has been largely spared the consequences of full-on warfare, period.

I disagree. The Civil war was full-on warfare. Bad shit was happening, war definitely came to people's homes. Even moreso with the revolutionary war.

But no one living has experienced that. In Europe, by contrast, there still are people who have experienced the direct consequences of war, had their homes destroyed, lost their families and livelihood, had to deal with the chaos of it all.

In the USA, since the civil war, no battles have really taken part within our borders. No cities have been destroyed. On the home front there was some economic inconvenience, but certainly nothing compared with the situations for many people in Europe during WWII.

I disagree. The Civil war was full-on warfare. Bad shit was happening, war definitely came to people's homes. Even moreso with the revolutionary war.

But no one living has experienced that. In Europe, by contrast, there still are people who have experienced the direct consequences of war, had their homes destroyed, lost their families and livelihood, had to deal with the chaos of it all.

In the USA, since the civil war, no battles have really taken part within our borders. No cities have been destroyed. On the home front there was some economic inconvenience, but certainly nothing compared with the situations for many people in Europe during WWII.
So, you're saying that America has been largely spared the consequences of full-on warfare...

I certainly think it is possible to have a guerrilla war inside America.

Hit, Shoot and Run.

We would use the same techniques as US is doing now.

There’s nothing brave about dropping heavy cluster bombs above civil areas.

You don’t need a huge force. Only a few thousand soldiers inside US is enough.
And getting guns is so easy in that country…

And you don’t need a brain to carry a gun.

Oh man, we could create some fearing panic.

What would you oversized fat American, what would you do if we would enter your local mall with a few dozen well trained professional soldiers, get some kills and run away, what would you do? Nothing, else you would be death meat.

Later on, you may cry about the coward attack, you may cry in front of entire US when your local TV station is broadcasting your tears.

Maybe then, you know how it feels to life in terror and pain. Would you?

1) Happens on a daily basis in New Orleans and LA

2) Doesn't seem possible

3) No but it's like beating a kid up to make sure he doesn't do something you wouldn't like, the pain acts as a detterrant.

4) Sad fact, however the US civs would give you a hard time, if you were to invade with a thousand troops then you'll know how the US generals feel when they have to deal with guerrillas slowing their forces down.

5) You need brains to use it properly, here's another sad fact, many civillians in the US are skilled gunmen, you imply that you could beat America with beginner shooters, US civs being skilled with guns (which they use for hobbies, hunting, crimes, terrorism) would give your boys hell.

6) Yeah but then withing months we'll grow used to it. It's surprising how many bad things we're used to, like school lock-downs because of people who want to do what you do trying to attack a school.

7) Like that doesn't already happen.

8) Every time there is a tragedy that happens and it's been done so many times for various tragedies that we've been dissensitized. No one will do anything. Secondly barely anything would change, we'd react to that the same way people react to dominant terrorist groups in the South, New Orleans or LA. They'd just treat your boys like a mean gang and go on with life pretending not to be afraid. We're so used to terror and crime that it doesn't scare us anymore, if we die because of it many of us seem to welcome it.

9) We already do but no ones doing anything to stop these gangs or terrorists, all the government does is wait until the damage is done to act. Lets face it your idea of hurting the US the same way it hurt you is redundant and wasteful. The subversives that the US tolerates would kill off most of your guys in a hypothetical invasion and secondly a bully bullies others because he's angry becuase of the circumstances and wants to make others feel his pain thats the main reason there are bullies, this applies to nations as well, the US already felt all the pain from a life of terror so the troops there are making sure the people of Iraq feel it. Thirdly the terrorist orgs there are part to blame. Some parts of America are already suffering under the life of terror.

Umm, no offense man, but we already know what that's like.
... no you don't.
its called Pearl Harbor, when the Japanese non-Kamikaze at all, you ignorant cretin pilots attacked suddenly in the morning.
And just over 2000 soldiers died. But then they were professional soldiers. So you can't exactly compare the two. Neither in terms of who died, or the numbers.
Its called the American Revolution and the Civil War, where brother fought against brother.
Yeah, that's about the closest it's come to a proper war in the US. Still, again, the majority of casualties were soldiers in those wars.
Its called ethnic riots, where people throw flaming liquor bottles into windows...
Err... yes... if you're on about the LA riots, a massive 50 people died. Why that's an entire 1/3,000 of the casualties of the Iraq war for the civilan population alone.
How do we not understand when we have gone through all that?
Because you haven't lost 150,000 civilians and had your infrastructure bombed back to the middle ages when the rest of the world can sit about discussing it over the Internet, from the comfort of our own homes, like we are now?

That's right! Look what happened to that poor Miss Jackson for showing a niple!

Free speech? Sure, I remember something, in the beginning of this stupid war, when press people had the guts to say that it was maybe not that smart to go to Iraq, they were accused of being bad patriot ones, lots of them lost their job!

You don't kill each other for religious matters? No? Sure? Never heard of the several killings of doctors and nurses working at abortion hospitals?

Please...

Absolutely nothing happened to Janet Jackson. The TV network was fined some money, but no big deal.

Show me some evidence that anyone lost his or her job for speaking out against the Iraq invasion. You're lying. You're ignorant about the US.

A handful of isolated incidents in the US, many commited by the same man who is now serving life in prison vs. Shi'ite death squads and Sunni bombers blowing up markets and even mosques. Yeah, I guess we're exactly the same.

غوغل هو رفيقك؟

. ;))

Lol yes it is. However what I said can't be translated through a Arabic-English web site. Only if he knew Arabic would he know what I said.

I don't normally do this for people who are enemies of people I mildly dislike, but can I call Troll on this one? 0_o

If you don't, I will.

So, you're saying that America has been largely spared the consequences of full-on warfare...

Mostly, but not completely. It's only the absolute that I took issue with. The statement that the Civil War and and the Revolution were not full-on warfare is a bit ludicrous.

Just a small point really.

Did we? Or did Saddam Hussein start this game? I mean, if he had not invaded Kuwait illegally, we would not be where we are today.
IF the US had not invaded Iraq illegally, THEN the US would not be where they are today (mired in the Iraqi sand).

If he had fully complied with the UN Resolutions, the US would not have gone in.
Saddam was complying with Resolution 1241.....it was the US that violated that Resolution.

This in no way excuses the government for poor planning and not seeing if the intelligence was correct but one must look at all the facts.
Yes, by all means.....look at ALL the facts and then you wouldn't be stating what you have stated above!!

Should we have our fights in US of A?

I’m an Iraqi. We are now suffering for years and it will get worse.

It’s the US of A who started this game, so I propose to stop playing IN Iraq and have our game in the cities of the US.

Those rednecks like to shoot, we’ll they will learn to shoot or be killed.

Yes, cars with babies inside will explode in front of their own eyes.

Yes, people want to visit a son, a mother, a nephew and arrive and cry cause they discover they are death.

Yes, they will know what it is like, losing 150.000 people in no time.

Maybe, it will teach US Citizen not to vote again for a dumb lunatic farmer.

Gee, didn't one of your shitty leaders plunge your country into an 8 year long war that was probably three times worse than the one you're experiencing right now?

Naw, couldn't have been. Maybe I'm just making shit up.

Gee, didn't one of your shitty leaders plunge your country into an 8 year long war that was probably three times worse than the one you're experiencing right now?

Naw, couldn't have been. Maybe I'm just making shit up.

Obviously you can't tell the difference between being invaded and being the aggressor. People act differently when their nation is the aggressor than when they are the ones invaded. Plus this war has plunged BL's nation into a pseudo-civil war.

To compare being invaded to invading another country is comparing apples and oranges. They may both be fruit but they ain't the same. One's pulpy and one is a worm magnet.

Lol yes it is. However what I said can't be translated through a Arabic-English web site. Only if he knew Arabic would he know what I said.
Google translated what you said for me as well - although how correct that was, I don't know. ;)
Mostly, but not completely. It's only the absolute that I took issue with. The statement that the Civil War and and the Revolution were not full-on warfare is a bit ludicrous.

Just a small point really.
I take it that is why Dobbsworld said "largely spared the consequences of full-on warfare...", don't you think?

That does not make it an absolute.
Obviously you can't tell the difference between being invaded and being the aggressor. People act differently when their nation is the aggressor than when they are the ones invaded. Plus this war has plunged BL's nation into a pseudo-civil war.

To compare being invaded to invading another country is comparing apples and oranges. They may both be fruit but they ain't the same. One's pulpy and one is a worm magnet.
What a great way to put it! "Worm magnet" is priceless. ;)

Yet, two wrongs don't make one right - and advocating murder is more than questionable.

Best post in this thread.

No.

Oh wait i'm 16 pages late, i'ts probably just spam now.

Best post in this thread.
Why thank you. I just figured it was common sense, no?

Google translated what you said for me as well - although how correct that was, I don't know. ;)

I used slang in what I said. Run it through a translator and it will not work out where it makes sense. The best way to see if someone is using a translator on any language is to confuse it with slang words. Anyone knowing Arabic as their primary language would have laughed at what I said.

By the way, whose puppet are you?

lol

I used slang in what I said. Run it through a translator and it will not work out where it makes sense. The best way to see if someone is using a translator on any language is to confuse it with slang words. Anyone knowing Arabic as their primary language would have laughed at what I said.
:D Sneaky!

I take it that is why Dobbsworld said "largely spared the consequences of full-on warfare...", don't you think?

That does not make it an absolute.



'Twas mainly the spelled out "period" at the end that kind of confused the meaning, since that usually seems to denote a very hard and fast absolute kind of statement.

:D Sneaky!

It would be except that even if people speak the same vernacular, colloquialisms are not consistent and the meaning will go unnoticed, especially if that person is not familiar with local slang. Granted you can look it up, but it's not always the same. We can read the characters but we won't know what it means.

I'm merely suggesting it because it is a possibility and language can vary greatly even if the base language is the same. There is even local slang within local slang. It doesn't make it an indication of a person's grasp of a language.

"Can I buy a dime off you?" - what do I want?

Why thank you. I just figured it was common sense, no?

It was - and it warrants repeating again and again and again because many people seem to have difficulty with even such a simple piece of common sense. :)

It was - and it warrants repeating again and again and again because many people seem to have difficulty with even such a simple piece of common sense. :)

Ok then answer me this, do two rights make a wrong? :p

Ok then answer me this, do two rights make a wrong? :p

I'm sorry, but that is classified information. Please log in and type password.

Fnord

Trolling is...

http://dagobah.tchmachines.com/~tpjzdd/albums/Photochop/not_key_to_airpower.jpg

Remember kids, debate should primarily be a rational exercise, not an emotional one.

I'm sorry, but that is classified information. Please log in and type password.

Fnord

Curses! I have been thwarted! :D