NationStates Jolt Archive

Some folks have said that blacks are discriminated against, and that it's "harder" to be black in America (United States to politically correct fools). I disagree. For an answer I choose sports. Why are there more blacks in Basketball if they're so discriminated against? They make-up 8% of America's population, and are obviously over-represented in Basketball. Are they actually better at sports then whites? No, that would be "racist" to say, now wouldn't it? Are whites less-likely to enjoiy Basketball then blacks? No, just as racist. Plenty of whites watch Basketball.
Are WHITES discriminated against? Not racist, but obviously a preposterous notion. Yet according to a fool's method of deduction, it's obvious.
Please use your divine (sorry, most of you are Athiests here, I didn't mean to offend you) reasoning to explain NS'ers....

Don't forget the many programs and scholarship out there to help blacks.

Don't forget the many programs and scholarship out there to help blacks.

Which no-one seems to admit to. So instead we show them proof they can see every day with their own eyes on T.V.

Then why are southern white racists generally affluent and blacks not?

Which no-one seems to admit to. So instead we show them proof they can see every day with their own eyes on T.V.

Eh Good method, but you're also forgetting Football and even other sports like Golf and Tennis. Hell there's probably a black skier out there somewhere.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=526479

Then why are southern white racists generally affluent and blacks not?

Ha ha, you're funny. I've met Southern white racists, and they're no more affluent than the blacks that are living in the projects. Except they just live in trailer parks or in government subsidized houses.

Here you go Parkus:

www.stormfront.org

Here you go Parkus:

www.stormfront.org

You got nothing right? Just go ahead and admit that you got nothing.

Here you go Parkus:

www.stormfront.org

What the hell? I can find a Black-Supremist site easy. What's your point?
No-one will answer why there are more blacks in Basketball!

How many fortune 500 corporate CEOs that you know of are black? How many simply have higher end jobs that don't involve athletics? How many get a fair crack at proper education to get those jobs without having the talent to play a game at a high level? Racism exists, and you can't ignore it. Crosses are still being burned, and job/housing/social discrimination are still a problem. There's a reason why young black men think that being the next Jordan is the only way to get out freom under their background. That's because in the vast majority of cases it's painfully true.

You got nothing right? Just go ahead and admit that you got nothing.

No, just some silly site who wants to say "say it loud, we're white and we're proud" and it's supposed to prove me wrong. :rolleyes:

Some folks have said that blacks are discriminated against, and that it's "harder" to be black in America (United States to politically correct fools). I disagree. For an answer I choose sports. Look, we don't get to ape them there niggers in black face anymore, and we don't get to string 'em up and whip em and such...we've got to get SOME sort of entertainment value from them! So yeah, we let the jungle bunnies run around chasing a ball for our amusement. :rolleyes:

I dunno, Why are there more whites in Nascar, and hockey?

Why are there more whites in hockey? Perhaps blacks prefer basketball? What does this have to do with alleviating the disadvantage blacks face in the economy, and therefore life in general?

politically correct fools

Yes, political correctness IS foolishness.:D

Please use your divine (sorry, most of you are Athiests here, I didn't mean to offend you) reasoning to explain NS'ers....

Why apologize for 'offending' them (meaning atheists, not any racial or ethnic groups)? They (at least the more loud and vocal among them) are so thin-skinned and hypersensitive they NEED to be 'offended' every so often, especially after they took God, Jesus Christ, the Bible, and prayer out of public schools (in violation of the First Amendment, both in the sense of freedom of religion AND of speech IMO), thereby depriving American schoolchildren of the benefits of knowing the God of the Bible.

How many fortune 500 corporate CEOs that you know of are black? How many simply have higher end jobs that don't involve athletics? How many get a fair crack at proper education to get those jobs without having the talent to play a game at a high level? Racism exists, and you can't ignore it. Crosses are still being burned, and job/housing/social discrimination are still a problem. There's a reason why young black men think that being the next Jordan is the only way to get out freom under their background. That's because in the vast majority of cases it's painfully true.

No sir, you still haven't answered my question. We're talking PROFESSIONAL sports here. Why, are there so many blacks playing? So say it's because they can't become CEO's is silly.
"Duh, um, whites become CEO's 'cause they can't get into sports...duh...."

Don't forget the many programs and scholarship out there to help blacks.

Don't forget the many programs and scholarships out there to help disabled people, grandchildren or children of vets, women studying science or engineering, people from a particular farming community, Catholics, a guy named 'Winston' who chooses to study under-water basketweaving....

You can set up a trust to deliver scholarships, awards and bursuries to ANYONE with an almost unlimited choice in criteria. So suck it up, Princess. Don't act like these scholarships and bursuries have launched blacks to dizzying heights at the expense of white folk.

Look, we don't get to ape them there niggers in black face anymore, and we don't get to string 'em up and whip em and such...we've got to get SOME sort of entertainment value from them! So yeah, we let the jungle bunnies run around chasing a ball for our amusement. :rolleyes:

You dumbo. Your sarcasm doesn't win the argument. Showing intelligence may. Give me a good counter-argument, not this dribble.
Basketball players are payed a lot.

Yes, political correctness IS foolishness.:D



Why apologize for 'offending' them (meaning atheists, not any racial or ethnic groups)? They (at least the more loud and vocal among them) are so thin-skinned and hypersensitive they NEED to be 'offended' every so often, especially after they took God, Jesus Christ, the Bible, and prayer out of public schools (in violation of the First Amendment, both in the sense of freedom of religion AND of speech IMO), thereby depriving American schoolchildren of the benefits of knowing the God of the Bible.

http://www.culturekitchen.com/files/images/goodgrief_0.gif

No, just some silly site who wants to say "say it loud, we're white and we're proud" and it's supposed to prove me wrong. :rolleyes:

It's cute really. I'm just tired of the whole "victim" mentality that blacks in America seem to have. Everything is someone else's fault. Didn't get that job, well the company is racist! Got kicked out of your house (for not paying the mortgage/rent) why the landlord just hates you because you're black! Didn't get into college (because you jerked around during high school and got piss poor grades) it's still not your fault if you're black!

I mean for Christ Sakes, I'm handicapped and do you realize how hard I had to work to even be accepted as 'normal'? (and the countless surgery that I've had) and do I blame other people when things don't go my way. No, I just find out what went wrong, find a solution to the problem, and try again. I don't blame other people for my failings, I don't go around saying "Well they should hire me because I'm handicapped!" I buckled down, work hard and do whatever I need to go to move ahead in life.

Life is hard, life will always be hard, and the only way to make it in this world is by working smart, and hard, and to realize that sometimes, you failed because of something that YOU did.

No sir, you still haven't answered my question. We're talking PROFESSIONAL sports here. Why, are there so many blacks playing? So say it's because they can't become CEO's is silly.
"Duh, um, whites become CEO's 'cause they can't get into sports...duh...."

"How many simply have higher end jobs that don't involve athletics? How many get a fair crack at proper education to get those jobs without having the talent to play a game at a high level?... There's a reason why young black men think that being the next Jordan is the only way to get out from under their background. That's because in the vast majority of cases it's painfully true."

Reposted because I'm not sure if you actually read it the first time...

Eh Good method, but you're also forgetting Football and even other sports like Golf and Tennis. Hell there's probably a black skier out there somewhere.

Wow, Tiger Woods comes along, and suddenly 'the blacks are taking over golf!'

You dumbo. Your sarcasm doesn't win the argument. Showing intelligence may. Give me a good counter-argument, not this dribble.
Basketball players are payed a lot.

Look at the richest 500, very very few of them are athletes.

So, what exactly is your argument here? That there are rich basketball players so racism doesn't exist? How in the hell do you connect those dots?

Look, we don't get to ape them there niggers in black face anymore, and we don't get to string 'em up and whip em and such...we've got to get SOME sort of entertainment value from them! So yeah, we let the jungle bunnies run around chasing a ball for our amusement. :rolleyes:

That is probably the most racist thing I've ever read, I mean my God, is your dad the Grand Dragon of the local Ku Klux Klan group? Comon, I know that you're trying to be ironic, but it failed, it failed big time and honestly, I now think that you are a racist.

Yes, political correctness IS foolishness.:D



Why apologize for 'offending' them (meaning atheists, not any racial or ethnic groups)? They (at least the more loud and vocal among them) are so thin-skinned and hypersensitive they NEED to be 'offended' every so often, especially after they took God, Jesus Christ, the Bible, and prayer out of public schools (in violation of the First Amendment, both in the sense of freedom of religion AND of speech IMO), thereby depriving American schoolchildren of the benefits of knowing the God of the Bible.

Rising from the oceans of hate, intolerance and racism, manifest from such entities as MTAE and FreedomandGlory, comes Changing Mottos!

Don't forget the many programs and scholarships out there to help disabled people, grandchildren or children of vets, women studying science or engineering, people from a particular farming community, Catholics, a guy named 'Winston' who chooses to study under-water basketweaving....

You can set up a trust to deliver scholarships, awards and bursuries to ANYONE with an almost unlimited choice in criteria. So suck it up, Princess. Don't act like these scholarships and bursuries have launched blacks to dizzying heights at the expense of white folk.

You really are racist aren't you? True there are basically scholarships and program for anyone and everyone out there, so really there's no reason for anyone to bitch that they can't get a 'proper' education.

You dumbo. Your sarcasm doesn't win the argument. Showing intelligence may. Give me a good counter-argument, not this dribble.
Basketball players are payed a lot.

It's drivel. Dribble is what you do with a basketball. And for someone who feels qualified to call me 'dumbo', you sure let that one fly over your head.

You HAVE no point to counter. I'm just here to point and laugh. Why do more white folks listen to country music? I mean...how racist is THAT!?

That is probably the most racist thing I've ever read, I mean my God, is your dad the Grand Dragon of the local Ku Klux Klan group? Comon, I know that you're trying to be ironic, but it failed, it failed big time and honestly, I now think that you are a racist.


Ummm... The phrase "takes one to know one," comes to mind. Don't think I've forgotten.

Wow, Tiger Woods comes along, and suddenly 'the blacks are taking over golf!'

I never said that, that is your words and your words alone. Now put on your mama's bedsheet and go burn the cross.

Ummm... The phrase "takes one to know one," comes to mind. Don't think I've forgotten.

Forgotten what, and if you can't muster up anymore than schoolyards tactics then really it probably wasn't worth remembering.

That is probably the most racist thing I've ever read, I mean my God, is your dad the Grand Dragon of the local Ku Klux Klan group? Comon, I know that you're trying to be ironic, but it failed, it failed big time and honestly, I now think that you are a racist.

Hahahahaaaa....ah.

You and Parkus are perfect for one another.

Hahahahaaaa....ah.

You and Parkus are perfect for one another.

I'm not the one using every racist slang in the book here.

That is probably the most racist thing I've ever read, I mean my God, is your dad the Grand Dragon of the local Ku Klux Klan group? Comon, I know that you're trying to be ironic, but it failed, it failed big time and honestly, I now think that you are a racist.

You really are racist aren't you? True there are basically scholarships and program for anyone and everyone out there, so really there's no reason for anyone to bitch that they can't get a 'proper' education.


I never said that, that is your words and your words alone. Now put on your mama's bedsheet and go burn the cross.

God this is adorable. No one with sense is buying it, but it is down right adorable.

Way to go Parkus. Way to go Wilgrove, you show um. I am on your sidehttp://smilies.vidahost.com/otn/wink/thumb.gif

You really are racist aren't you? True there are basically scholarships and program for anyone and everyone out there, so really there's no reason for anyone to bitch that they can't get a 'proper' education.

So everyone in the US gets their education paid for in full, including living expenses, via scholarships and bursuries? That is FANTASTIC! So why are all these people simply choosing NOT to get a post-secondary education? Are they crazy? All that free money just lying around for anyone to take advantage of!

I never said that, that is your words and your words alone. Now put on your mama's bedsheet and go burn the cross.

They don't let Indians into the Klu Klux Klan there Forrest.

Neesika, it's called equality of opportunity, those grants, scholarships and the like you speak of are merely government or non-government attempts to raise the income levels and standards of those individuals to levels of opportunity in life afforded to other individuals, their is nothing racist about it, it just so happens that those below are blacks and those above are whites, that doesn't change the need for social justice.

I'm not the one using every racist slang in the book here.

Na, your racism is all in the subtext baby. I'm just bringing it out into the open.

God this is adorable. No one with sense is buying it, but it is down right adorable.

So is the fact that you guys are calling me racist because I don't buy the 'victim' mentality, WHILE saying stuff like this.

Wow, Tiger Woods comes along, and suddenly 'the blacks are taking over golf!'

Ummm... The phrase "takes one to know one," comes to mind. Don't think I've forgotten.

Here you go Parkus:

www.stormfront.org

Look, we don't get to ape them there niggers in black face anymore, and we don't get to string 'em up and whip em and such...we've got to get SOME sort of entertainment value from them! So yeah, we let the jungle bunnies run around chasing a ball for our amusement. :rolleyes:

Yes, it really is cute.

This shit is too funny...

Neesika, it's called equality of opportunity, those grants, scholarships and the like you speak of are merely government or non-government attempts to raise the income levels and standards of those individuals to levels of opportunity in life afforded to other individuals, their is nothing racist about it, it just so happens that those below are blacks and those above are whites, that doesn't change the need for social justice.

This is fucking hilarious.

So everyone in the US gets their education paid for in full, including living expenses, via scholarships and bursuries? That is FANTASTIC! So why are all these people simply choosing NOT to get a post-secondary education? Are they crazy? All that free money just lying around for anyone to take advantage of!

First of all, the scholarship is there, so is student loans, and other financial help. Yes they will have to pay it back in full, yes they will accumulate debt, and yes they will have to get a part time job. Boo hoo, so does every other college student, including whites, Asians, and Hispanics. Deal.

They don't let Indians into the Klu Klux Klan there Forrest.

Yea, but with the white sheet, no one will notice. At least you'll be along brothers who will also get to say those racist slang that you love to say.

Na, your racism is all in the subtext baby. I'm just bringing it out into the open.

Well that is the first step, admitting that you are racist. You're well on your way to recovering and maybe making a coherent argument. :)

This is fucking hilarious.

That's it, that's all your going to say?

First of all, the scholarship is there, so is student loans, and other financial help. Yes they will have to pay it back in full, yes they will accumulate debt, and yes they will have to get a part time job. Boo hoo, so does every other college student, including whites, Asians, and Hispanics. Deal.

You have to qualify for student loans first. And no, not everyone can. Not to mention, you actually have to have the grades to get into school first...and whether you're black, white or whatever, those in lower socio-economic positions don't always have the luxury of focusing on their studies. Why? Because their basic living needs are not met first. It's basic Maslow hierarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs). All the money in the world AFTER the fact isn't going to mean squat, even assuming you can get it.

But I'd hate for you to have to leave your sheltered world where 'everyone has equal opportunity and therefore is only his or herself to blame for failure'.

First of all, the scholarship is there, so is student loans, and other financial help. Yes they will have to pay it back in full, yes they will accumulate debt, and yes they will have to get a part time job. Boo hoo, so does every other college student, including whites, Asians, and Hispanics. Deal.

1) wilgrove, I suggest you try really, REALLY hard to think about what you say and who you say it to before you fly off the handle and think, that if someone says something really really obscene....maybe they're being a tad sarcastic, non?

2) not EVERY college student has to take loans, far from it. I'm an ivy league brat myself, and I can't tell you how many kids were paid, IN FULL, by their parents. MANY students have family incomes that are capable of supporting them. Now, proportionatly, what families do you think are better able to pay for their kids to go to college, the white ones, or the black ones?

That's it, that's all your going to say?

To those of you who are incapable of recognising sarcasm? Um, yeah, pretty much.

1) wilgrove, I suggest you try really, REALLY hard to think about what you say and who you say it to before you fly off the handle and think, that if someone says something really really obscene....maybe they're being a tad sarcastic, non?

He knows, he's just embarrased that once again he's let people see his own racism. He figures the best defence is a lame offence.

You have to qualify for student loans first.

Duh.

And no, not everyone can. Not to mention, you actually have to have the grades to get into school first


Again, duh.

...and whether you're black, white or whatever, those in lower socio-economic positions don't always have the luxury of focusing on their studies. Why? Because their basic living needs are not met first.

It's really more about the home, absent parents, parents got laid off, etc. so the child does have to get a job to help support the family, and no they don't always have the time to focus on their studies, however that's not the whole story. You know and I know that there are lower class people who are in a situation who can't get into college and it's out of their control, but there's also the other side of the coin where they can help it, they just don't want to.


But I'd hate for you to have to leave your sheltered world where 'everyone has equal opportunity and therefore is only his or herself to blame for failure'.

Nice to see you actually went an entire post without a racist slang.

And to the OP asking people to "respond".

What? What the fuck do you want me to say? What exactly is your point that you somehow want me to respond to? That because there are more black people in basketball that suddenly racism and economic disadvantages don't exist? Is that REALLY your proposition? I can't respond to you because I can not for the life of me figure out what the hell it is you're trying to say.

I really REALLY am hoping that you're NOT trying to say that because of the...what....200, 300 pro baskeball players in the country right now, the fact that most of them are black somehow disproves racism? That a profession that employs literally ONE IN A MILLION PEOPLE in this country is a majority black that this negates racism?

I don't truly believe you can make that claim, so I'm left trying to figure out what the hell you ARE trying to say, for if you are truly trying to say that, I have nothing to say, for I am too god damned dumbfounded by the sheer stupidity of that statement.

Some folks have said that blacks are discriminated against, and that it's "harder" to be black in America (United States to politically correct fools). I disagree. For an answer I choose sports. Why are there more blacks in Basketball if they're so discriminated against? They make-up 8% of America's population, and are obviously over-represented in Basketball.
why?
Simple answer is that Basketball is a poor man's sport and Blacks are poor. That's why they're over-represented in Basketball.
And why they're under-represented in rowing, for example. Which is definitely a richman's sport. Yet the physique for a top rower is pretty similar to that of a top basketballer. i.e. Average height of a rower at the Olympics is 6'4". Average height of a basketballer is 6'5". Both sports need a lot of power, stamina and coordination.

So why do we not see any blacks rowing, when their over-representation in another sport shows that they have the physiques for it?
A few reasons.
Biggest one of course is money. It costs a few cents to buy a basketball and then go down to the local park. It costs thousands to buy a rowing skiff. How many black families can afford that?
Another is convenience of activity. How many rowing clubs can you find in the inner city ghettos, as opposed to basketball courts?
A third is identification. A young black kid's going to identify himself alot more easily with Michael Jordan than Steve Redgrave. As such he's going to want to play basketball because that's what his hero does.
Fourth is everyone out there thinks that Blacks make good basketball players, because there's so many of them playing the game. So when they see a black kid with a lot of natural skills and ability, everyone around him would more likely tell him to try basketball over any other sport. And thus they self-fulfil their theory about blacks being good at basketball.


To make the claim that because there's lots of blacks in a sport somehow 'proves' they're not discriminated against is asinine, to say the least. the word 'pathetic' also springs to mind. Also, the phrase 'clutching at straws'.

Nice to see you actually went an entire post without a racist slang.

Sad to see you went another post without figuring out how sarcasm works.

It's really more about the home, absent parents, parents got laid off, etc. so the child does have to get a job to help support the family, and no they don't always have the time to focus on their studies, however that's not the whole story. You know and I know that there are lower class people who are in a situation who can't get into college and it's out of their control, but there's also the other side of the coin where they can help it, they just don't want to.
So essentially, you are admitting that your earlier 'argument' "the money and therefore opportunity is there for all" is basically shit.

That's progress.

and may I suggest one possible thing? If you want to see how racism and race playes a part in the odds of ones success in this country, I suggest you do not look at the race of the players.

Look at the race of the owners.

1) wilgrove, I suggest you try really, REALLY hard to think about what you say and who you say it to before you fly off the handle and think, that if someone says something really really obscene....maybe they're being a tad sarcastic, non?

2) not EVERY college student has to take loans, far from it. I'm an ivy league brat myself, and I can't tell you how many kids were paid, IN FULL, by their parents. MANY students have family incomes that are capable of supporting them. Now, proportionatly, what families do you think are better able to pay for their kids to go to college, the white ones, or the black ones?

1. Sarcasm is not a valid argument and all it really does is make you look like more of an asshole than the person that sarcasm is pointed towards.

2. I would have to say whites, but that's why the scholarships are there, to help people who don't have rich mommies and daddies, and who can't afford to send their kids to college. and like I said earlier, sometimes situation out of the person control prevents them from getting those scholarship, but theres also the other side of the coin where they have the advantage, they just choose not to take it. It's a thin line, but the line is there.

Some folks have said that blacks are discriminated against, and that it's "harder" to be black in America (United States to politically correct fools). I disagree. For an answer I choose sports. Why are there more blacks in Basketball if they're so discriminated against? They make-up 8% of America's population, and are obviously over-represented in Basketball. Are they actually better at sports then whites? No, that would be "racist" to say, now wouldn't it? Are whites less-likely to enjoiy Basketball then blacks? No, just as racist. Plenty of whites watch Basketball.
Are WHITES discriminated against? Not racist, but obviously a preposterous notion. Yet according to a fool's method of deduction, it's obvious.
Please use your divine (sorry, most of you are Athiests here, I didn't mean to offend you) reasoning to explain NS'ers....

That is because sports has always been one of the few ways someone poor can become rich.

Its like that in the US, its like that here in Brazil, its like that anywhere in the know civilized world.

Now, to really believe in what you´re saying, you would need to know how many CEO´s are black, how many celebrities are black, how many university teachers are black, how many politicians are black.

Not to mention that by being good at a sport, you can get a university scholarship, meaning you can grow just from being good at some kind of sport.

Could someone please get me the stats on blacks playing ice hockey, thanks.

So essentially, you are admitting that your earlier 'argument' "the money and therefore opportunity is there for all" is basically shit.

That's progress.

Five bucks says that the percentage of blacks who are able to take advantage of the opportunity is higher than the one who cannot take advantage of the opportunity, and since I admit that there is that percentage, you must also admit that there is also a percentage that is able to take the opportunity, they just don't want to for various bullshit reason.

1. Sarcasm is not a valid argument and all it really does is make you look like more of an asshole than the person that sarcasm is pointed towards.

An argument is reserved for those who state something worth arguing over. The only thing this shit for a post deserves is to be mocked.

2. I would have to say whites

You've justadmitted that white families are, proportionatly, better off than black families on average. What the hell more is there to say? You already lost your argument by your own statements.

but that's why the scholarships are there

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand do you think those scholarships are sufficient to make up the gap, in full?

Five bucks says that the percentage of blacks who are able to take advantage of the opportunity is higher than the one who cannot take advantage of the opportunity, and since I admit that there is that percentage, you must also admit that there is also a percentage that is able to take the opportunity, they just don't want to for various bullshit reason.

Nice use of totally made up statistics there, bucko.

Oh no! Sarcasm again! WAAAAAAA!

An argument is reserved for those who state something worth arguing over. The only thing this shit for a post deserves is to be mocked.

and I returned the mock by calling the mocker a racist, which I suspect he is at least a bit racist considering that he decided to go that route on more than one post.


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand do you think those scholarships are sufficient to make up the gap?

It's getting there, more and more blacks are attending colleges now than they were in the 1950s, it's not closed yet, but it's getting there.

Five bucks says that the percentage of blacks who are able to take advantage of the opportunity is higher than the one who cannot take advantage of the opportunity

Do you have any, you know, sources to back up this assertion, because frankly I've long since stopped believing your personal perspectives are in any way valid without corrobration.

Your entire argument is "well...I think so"

and I returned the mock by calling the mocker a racist, which I suspect he is at least a bit racist considering that he decided to go that route on more than one post. What? Because I long for the good old days where niggers knew their place? These days, they seem to actually think they should be doing as well as whites! I mean...how outrageous is that? At least you and I know that their failure is a result of their inferiority, and not racism directed towards them! If only they'd come to their senses...

and I returned the mock by calling the mocker a racist, which I suspect he is at least a bit racist considering that he decided to go that route on more than one post.

Neesika is a SHE

Neesika is also a minority.

It's getting there

So then your answer is "no, the scholarships are not sufficient to close the gap". Thank you, so you have admitted that blacks are proportionally worse off, and you admit that institutions in place to close that gap are not sufficient to fully close that gap.

So...you admit that blacks are, in fact, more disadvantaged than whites. What is your point then?

more and more blacks are attending colleges now than they were in the 1950s, it's not closed yet, but it's getting there.

Really, more blacks are going to college now than when they weren't allowed to?

What a remarkable observation :rolleyes:

So where is the OP? Or is that your puppet account, Wilgrove?

Nice use of totally made up statistics there, bucko.

Oh no! Sarcasm again! WAAAAAAA!

Not made up.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmcensus1.html

2.4 million blacks are serving in our military (I salute you fine people) and the military, all branches have programs that pays the solider for an education. That means 2.4 million blacks can take advantage of that.

80%
Among blacks age 25 and older, the proportion that had at least a high school diploma in 2005. In states such as Colorado, the proportion was even higher—90%.

17%
Percentage of blacks age 25 and older who had a bachelor’s degree or more in 2005. In many states, the rate was higher. Twenty-six percent of blacks this age in Colorado, for instance, had this level of education.

1.1 million
Among blacks age 25 and older, the number who had an advanced degree in 2005 (e.g., master’s, Ph.D., M.D. or J.D.). Ten years earlier—in 1995—only 677,000 blacks had this level of education.

2.3 million
Number of black college students in fall 2004. This was an increase of roughly 1 million from 15 years earlier.

So, the Census Board just proved that things are improving for our black friends, more and more blacks are able to take advantage of the education opportunities. and in the United States. there are 38,662,569 blacks.

So that's 12.3 million blacks that are not only taking advantage of the opportunities, but have taken advantage.

Out of those who have a college degree or are trying to get one by getting fundings (military), there are 30.9 blacks who have at least a high school diploma.

What? Because I long for the good old days where niggers knew their place? These days, they seem to actually think they should be doing as well as whites! I mean...how outrageous is that? At least you and I know that their failure is a result of their inferiority, and not racism directed towards them! If only they'd come to their senses...

You're cute, you really are. Can I bring you to show and tell. "Look ladies and gentlemen, a racist Indian or Native American, whatever."

So, the Census Board just proved that things are improving for our black friends, more and more blacks are able to take advantage of the education opportunities. and in the United States. there are 38,662,569 blacks.

Who, exactly, EVER said things weren't improving?

Please, show me ONE person who did. Just one, please. I'll wait right here.

Until you do so, please cease trying to disprove arguments nobody has made. YOUR contention was there were advantages for all, or at least most. And that you haven't demonstrated yet.

You're cute, you really are. Can I bring you to show and tell. "Look ladies and gentlemen, a racist Indian or Native American, whatever."

there comes a point where you're better off just....giving up.

You past that point about 10 posts ago.

Some folks have said that blacks are discriminated against, and that it's "harder" to be black in America (United States to politically correct fools). I disagree. For an answer I choose sports. Why are there more blacks in Basketball if they're so discriminated against? They make-up 8% of America's population, and are obviously over-represented in Basketball. Are they actually better at sports then whites? No, that would be "racist" to say, now wouldn't it? Are whites less-likely to enjoiy Basketball then blacks? No, just as racist. Plenty of whites watch Basketball.
Are WHITES discriminated against? Not racist, but obviously a preposterous notion. Yet according to a fool's method of deduction, it's obvious.
Please use your divine (sorry, most of you are Athiests here, I didn't mean to offend you) reasoning to explain NS'ers....

What

The

Fuck.

So where is the OP? Or is that your puppet account, Wilgrove?

No, I'm not his puppet. I'm actually MORE conservative then him on a few issues.
Your points have had some validity, but most are silly. You are simply saying "blacks get into Basketball because they're turned-down from other jobs" which a non-sensical idea. Others just say: "there are more white CEO's!" which doesn't answer my argument. I have answered that on other threads, now would you PLEASE answer this?

I shall repost the OP from the link provided earlier:http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=526479

In recent threads (and old threads), some have questioned whether blacks are still disadvantaged in America. Some have even gone so far as to claim blacks are more privileged than whites.

Let me commit the cardinal sin of asking you to look at some facts:

African American men are more than twice as likely to be unemployed as white males and make only 75 percent as much a year. They’re nearly seven times more likely to be incarcerated, and their average jail sentences are 10 months longer than those of white men. In addition, young black males between the ages of 15 and 34 years are nine times more likely to die of homicide than their white counterparts and nearly seven times as likely to suffer from AIDS.


In terms of annual median income, black men earned less than three-quarters of what white men earned ($34,443 vs. $46,807), roughly a $12,000 gap. Black women made 87 percent of what white women made and $5,000 less than black men ($29,588 a year).


Further evidence of discrimination comes from more complex and detailed comparisons of earnings of blacks and whites, or males and females. Even after adjusting for characteristics that affect earnings (such as years of education and work experience), these studies typically find that blacks and women are paid less than their white male counterparts.


Unemployment was highest among black men – 9.5 percent compared to 4.0 percent for white men – a 5.5 percentage point gap. Black women experienced an unemployment rate of 8.5 percent, 4.4 percentage points above the 4.1 percent of their white counterparts.


Poverty, much like unemployment, also tends to affect blacks, especially those under 18, at a higher rate than whites; nearly 25 percent live below the poverty line, three times the percentage of whites. Of blacks under 18, 33.5 percent lived in poverty compared to 10 percent of white youths.


Homeownership among blacks is substantially lower than among whites (47.9 percent compared to 75.8 percent) and they’re three times more likely to get high-priced mortgage loans (54.7 percent of blacks vs. 17.2 percent of whites).


Blatant discrimination is a continuing problem in the labor market. Perhaps the most convincing evidence comes from "audit" studies, in which white and minority (or male and female) job seekers are given similar resumes and sent to the same set of firms to apply for a job. These studies often find that employers are less likely to interview or offer a job to minority applicants and to female applicants.


In 1995, white males held 97 percent of senior management positions in Fortune 1000 industrial and Fortune 500 service industries. Only 0.6 percent of senior management were African American, 0.3 percent are Asian and 0.4 percent are Hispanic. Little change has occurred in these numbers since 1995.


In 1995, African Americans held only 2.5 percent of top jobs in the private sector and African American men with professional degrees earned only 79 percent of the amount earned by their white counterparts. Comparably situated African American women earned only 60 percent of the amount earned by white males. Little change has occurred in these numbers since 1995.


Some sources:
National Urban League’s THE STATE OF BLACK AMERICA 2007 (Executive Summary, pdf) (http://www.nul.org/publications/SOBA/Executive%20Summary/2007SOBAEXCSUMMARY.pdf)
Affirmative Action Review: Report to the President (1995) (http://clinton2.nara.gov/WH/EOP/OP/html/aa/aa04.html)
The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, Job Patterns For Minorities And Women In Private Industry (http://www.eeoc.gov/stats/jobpat/jobpat.html)
Census report: Broad racial disparities persist (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15704759/)
Poverty trends by race (http://www.bsos.umd.edu/socy/vanneman/socy441/trends/povrace.html)


Sorry Wilgrove, your drivel simply covers old, and refuted ground. Just because you lack the intellecutal honesty to admit it, rehashing the issue over, and over and over...doesn't mean I should waste my time summarising it for you.

there comes a point where you're better off just....giving up.

You past that point about 10 posts ago.

Like I said, I mock the mocker.

No, I'm not his puppet. I'm actually MORE conservative then him on a few issues.
Your points have had some validity, but most are silly. You are simply saying "blacks get into Basketball because they're turned-down from other jobs" which a non-sensical idea. Others just say: "there are more white CEO's!" which doesn't answer my argument. I have answered that on other threads, now would you PLEASE answer this?

No, but what you are sir, is an idiot.

Poor little blacks.

So defenseless. :(

Not made up.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmcensus1.html

2.4 million blacks are serving in our military (I salute you fine people) and the military, all branches have programs that pays the solider for an education. That means 2.4 million blacks can take advantage of that.


Wow, I didn't even know we had that many people in our military, period. Let alone blacks. But anyway Wilgrove, it won't work. These poeple will say they join because "they're poor", or because we want to get them killed.

No, but what you are sir, is an idiot.

You call that an argument? I disagree with you so I'm "an idiot"? THAT is stupid.

No, I'm not his puppet. I'm actually MORE conservative then him on a few issues.
Your points have had some validity, but most are silly. You are simply saying "blacks get into Basketball because they're turned-down from other jobs" which a non-sensical idea. Others just say: "there are more white CEO's!" which doesn't answer my argument. I have answered that on other threads, now would you PLEASE answer this?

Sorry...what is your argument? All I've heard from your buddy Wilgrove is 'they cry about racism but really, they have just as much opportunity as anyone else, except well that's not actually true, but one day it will be so let's PRETEND it's true, and what do you have to say to that, Miss Smartypants, huh, huh?'

From you it's been 'but, but...more blacks in baseball! See that! See! I JUST CRUSHED THE RACISM ARGUMENT, W00T ME!!!'

And as for the bolded part...you've got me mixed up with someone else.

Wow, I didn't even know we had that many people in our military, period. Let alone blacks. But anyway Wilgrove, it won't work. These poeple will say they join because "they're poor", or because we want to get them killed.

Here are the numbers for the USA military.

Active personnel: 1,426,713 (Ranked 2nd)
Reserve personnel: 858,500 (List of countries by size of armed forces)
Military age population: males & females ages 17-49: 109,305,756 (2005 est.).[4]
Reaching military age annually: males & females: 4,180,074 (2005 est.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_United_States

No, I'm not his puppet. I'm actually MORE conservative then him on a few issues.
Your points have had some validity, but most are silly. You are simply saying "blacks get into Basketball because they're turned-down from other jobs" which a non-sensical idea.

Who the fuck ever said that?

Fine, you want a real answer, ok. Basketball, unlike other sports, is remarkably cheap to play. All you need is a court, a net, and a ball. There's no gear, padding, bats, mits, skates, pucks, or any of the other things that most other sports require.

Therefore it is one of the cheapest sports to play, it it is one of the cheapest sports to maintain, and one of the cheapest sports to start a team in. So the inner city youth are far more likely to play basketball than, say...football, which requires a lot more outdoor space (not very common in urban areas after all) and much more padding. So a lot of poorer, city youth play basketball while the richer kids get chances to play more expensive sports such as baseball, football, etc.

now those who play basketball as kids are more likely to grow up with the skill to be professional athletes, and since we can say that basketball is more likely to be played by urban poor, and urban poor are more likely to be black, more blacks will become professional basketball players, because that's the only sport they got to play as kids in the first place.

Now I think we can dispense with this shit.

You call that an argument? I disagree with you so I'm "an idiot"? THAT is stupid.

It's not an argument, it's a fact.

Sorry...what is your argument? All I've heard it 'they cry about racism but really, they have just as much opportunity as anyone else, except well that's not actually true, but one day it will be so let's PRETEND it's true, and what do you have to say to that, Miss Smartypants, huh, huh?'

And as for the bolded part...you've got me mixed up with someone else.

Sorry. The bold was not ment to refer to you, I was refering to the general croud. *Apologizes*

Now, what was your argument?

Like I said, I mock the mocker.

here's a hint.

She does it a lot, LOT better than you.

You just come off a bit....sad, really.

Sorry...what is your argument? All I've heard it 'they cry about racism but really, they have just as much opportunity as anyone else, except well that's not actually true, but one day it will be so let's PRETEND it's true, and what do you have to say to that, Miss Smartypants, huh, huh?'

And as for the bolded part...you've got me mixed up with someone else.

I just disproved the idea that blacks aren't getting a proper education, with 80% of the population having at least a high school diploma. Do all of them get to go to college, no, but that's the same situation all across the board.

Now I think we can dispense with this shit.

Like pez.

Some folks have said that blacks are discriminated against, and that it's "harder" to be black in America (United States to politically correct fools). I disagree. For an answer I choose sports. Why are there more blacks in Basketball if they're so discriminated against?
Why should there not be?
They make-up 8% of America's population, and are obviously over-represented in Basketball. Are they actually better at sports then whites? No, that would be "racist" to say, now wouldn't it?
No it wouldnt necessarily be racist to say.
Evidently if it were racist to assume blacks are better at sports, and people made such a racist assumption, wouldnt we expect this to influence the number of black people selected to participate in high level sports?

Are whites less-likely to enjoiy Basketball then blacks? No, just as racist. Plenty of whites watch Basketball.
Are WHITES discriminated against? Not racist, but obviously a preposterous notion. Yet according to a fool's method of deduction, it's obvious.
Please use your divine (sorry, most of you are Athiests here, I didn't mean to offend you) reasoning to explain NS'ers....
WTF?

You have failed to crush any argument.

Five bucks says that the percentage of blacks who are able to take advantage of the opportunity is higher than the one who cannot take advantage of the opportunity
It's getting there, more and more blacks are attending colleges now than they were in the 1950s, it's not closed yet, but it's getting there
The point is whether or not racism exists. In arguing that it doesnt you've attempted to explain the current disparities by the fact that some black people dont take every opportunity available to them. Can you explain why this occurs in greater porportion among blacks than among whites (as it must if it explains disparity in any way shape or form).
I wonder why if racism isnt a factor, as it has decreased, higher education amongst those impacted by racism in the US has increased. Interesting correlation isnt it?

Sorry. The bold was not ment to refer to you, I was refering to the general croud. *Apologizes*

Now, what was your argument?

That your example proves nothing.

Neo Art pretty much summed it up...I shall concur his learned dispensing.

It's not an argument, it's a fact.

It's completely an opinion. You whine about fools who think the Bible is 100% true. You're no better then them. You use their kind of reasoning. "They disagree so they're stupid" is as retarded as "they disagree so they're going to hell".

Like pez.

How DARE you compare Pez to shit!

Pez is delicious, tangy, and comes in assorted flavors including cherry and banana.

Shit is... we don't even need to get into that.

The point is, be more respectful of Pez.

2.4 million blacks are serving in our military

Active personnel: 1,426,713
Reserve personnel: 858,500

I greatly respect the inginuity of black americans to have 2.4 million blacks serving in a military of 2.28 million.

In other words...wtf? Your own cites are inconsistant. How the hell can you with a straight face say there are "2.4 million blacks" serving in our military and then TEN MINUTES LATER quote another source saying that the US military is just slightly over 2.28 mllion, total?

I see your sports, and raise you the Fortune 500.

I greatly respect the inginuity of black americans to have 2.4 million blacks serving in a military of 2.28 million.

In other words...wtf?

The military are offering to pay for college education, what did ya expect? I would be signing up to if I could serve.

I just disproved the idea that blacks aren't getting a proper education, with 80% of the population having at least a high school diploma. Do all of them get to go to college, no, but that's the same situation all across the board.

Here's a question for you.

When the majority of people, regardless of race, have a high school diploma...what advantage does a high school diploma now give you?

Answer. If you're lucky, it will qualify you to work in a gas station.

So what happens next? To get an edge, you go to college. But they can only let so many people in...or you run into the same problem...too many people with the same qualifications, meaning no one has an edge anymore.

So you only let those with the top grades in. Your stats say nothing about percentile ratings of black graduates. You also make post-secondary education more expensive, or you impose entry limits (as is done in most law schools). The ante has been upped...high school graduates of today are the grade 9 drop outs of yesteryear.

I see your sports, and raise you the Fortune 500.

I fold.

Why should there not be?
No it wouldnt necessarily be racist to say.
Evidently if it were racist to assume blacks are better at sports, and people made such a racist assumption, wouldnt we expect this to influence the number of black people selected to participate in high level sports?


WTF?

You have failed to crush any argument.


:) Actually I have. With you anyway. It is as just as racist to say blacks are better at phisical abilities, as it is to say whites are better at intellectual ones. "You are the weakest bigot, goodbye."

Then why are southern white racists generally affluent and blacks not?

...What?

Have you been in the South? The plantation days are long over, the Bible belt is also the poverty Belt. Alabama, Arkansas and Mississippi just name a few are riddled with poverty...for all ethnic groups.

Yet Atlanta is one of the most properous cities in the Country ...and it is over 70% Black.http://www.metroatlantachamber.com/macoc/business/img/summaryofeconomicgrowth.pdf

Your supposition that Southern White Racists are Affluent and that Blacks are not is the most racist comment I have read in this thread.
Go fall down some stairs.

Blacks are over-represented in prison as well, we should not stand for this 'positive discrimination' program - who are they to get all that free food and lodging?

How la la lucky they are.

I fold.

Psst.. use the Ace of Verylargepenises.

jungle bunnies
http://simplyff.free.fr/FF12/artworks/fran.jpg
?

Anyway, Parkus' argument is complete and utter bullshit. Apart from a few athletes--okay, a lot of athletes--blacks have almost nothing in America, mainly because education is not made equal to all.

And I'm not talking about trying idiocy such as affirmative action. You have to make opportunity for everyone equal. If that means free education, so be it. Quality education too: every single damned elementary, middle, and high school ought to have the quality of Stanford.

...

Well, maybe not Stanford....that's pushing it...but definitely higher quality than we see most of the time!

We have the money to do this too. We're spending far far FAR too much on our military and on wasteful programs like the War on Drugs. Bleed some money from this and some from that and you've got what you need to pay for the serious increase in education everywhere, because that is the only way we are going to correct this injustice.

The military are offering to pay for college education, what did ya expect? I would be signing up to if I could serve.

So the US military is overwhelmingly black???

So what...all those newscasts of the troops in Iraq are carefully edited to show only the imaginary and tiny minority of whites?

Holy fuck, why didn't anyone tell me this before? This is amazing stuff here!

The military are offering to pay for college education, what did ya expect? I would be signing up to if I could serve.

I'm sorry Wilgrove, you did blow-it with that statistic.

Blacks are over-represented in prison as well, we should not stand for this 'positive discrimination' program - who are they to get all that free food and lodging?

How la la lucky they are.

Too true! How unfair that there are more blacks getting a free ride in jail!

Here's a question for you.

When the majority of people, regardless of race, have a high school diploma...what advantage does a high school diploma now give you?

Answer. If you're lucky, it will qualify you to work in a gas station.

So what happens next? To get an edge, you go to college. But they can only let so many people in...or you run into the same problem...too many people with the same qualifications, meaning no one has an edge anymore.

So you only let those with the top grades in. Your stats say nothing about percentile ratings of black graduates. You also make post-secondary education more expensive, or you impose entry limits (as is done in most law schools). The ante has been upped...high school graduates of today are the grade 9 drop outs of yesteryear.

All true, so your point is?

The military are offering to pay for college education, what did ya expect? I would be signing up to if I could serve.

I didn't expect that the GI bill would break the laws of physics.

Read what I said again, very very carefully.

You said there were 2.4 million blacks in the military. That, based on YOUR cite, is ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY THOUSAND more than the ENTIRE POPULATION OF OUR MILITARY.

How in HOLY HELL are there 2.4 million blacks in a military of 2.28 million? Do you even read what is being said to me?

Read this, again, CAREFULLY. You said there were 2.4 million blacks in our military. then, 10 minutes later, you said there were 2.28 million active and reservist personelle in our military.

What

The

Fuck?

http://simplyff.free.fr/FF12/artworks/fran.jpg

My god people, please try to keep up.

...What?

Have you been in the South? The plantation days are long over, the Bible belt is also the poverty Belt. Alabama, Arkansas and Mississippi just name a few are riddled with poverty...for all ethnic groups.

Yet Atlanta is one of the most properous cities in the Country ...and it is over 70% Black.http://www.metroatlantachamber.com/macoc/business/img/summaryofeconomicgrowth.pdf

Your supposition that Southern White Racists are Affluent and that Blacks are not is the most racist comment I have read in this thread.
Go fall down some stairs.

Haha, no.

Don't you realize that the racism has never actually left?

It's simply just been tucked away...

So the US military is overwhelmingly black???

Not only overwhelmingly, there are more blacks in the military than the military is large!

It's a miracle!

All true, so your point is?

Your stat (which considering the other belly flop of a stat you put out there I have to question) doesn't mean squat. High school doesn't mean 'prosperity' anymore.

Thanks for coming.

Blacks are over-represented in prison as well, we should not stand for this 'positive discrimination' program - who are they to get all that free food and lodging?

How la la lucky they are.

If you are arguing for me you're a bigot. If you're arguing against me, you're a fool. How does a higher black crime-rate indicate anything?

Not only overwhelmingly, there are more blacks in the military than the military is large!

It's a miracle!

I must have deliberately refused to acknowlege that disparity out of a misguided need to give Wilgrove the benefit of the doubt.

My god people, please try to keep up.

...

I knew what you were referring to. I was hoping you'd take the picture in good humour as it was intended.

I'm sorry...just a brief lookover of the thread shows you've been knee deep in the mud with some idiots here...you're probably a bit too stressed for that kind of random humour.

All true, so your point is?

that a highschool education does not a success make, and saying that 80% of blacks have a highschool diploma is not indicative of how well they are doing in proportion.

What you need to look at is what proportion of education is the same, or similar. Are blacks on average equally educated overall? That's what matters.

If 80% of blacks have a highschool diploma (similar to whites) but only 10% of blacks have a college education, they are in no way equal.

Haha, no.

Don't you realize that the racism has never actually left?

It's simply just been tucked away...

So, rather then proposing an intellectual argument to counter this, you are simply saying: "haha, whatever man, I'm right, you're not, now piss-off!"

Tsk-tsk-tsk.

Haha, no.

Don't you realize that the racism has never actually left?

It's simply just been tucked away...

Like that scene in "The Silence of the Lambs"?

Too true! How unfair that there are more blacks getting a free ride in jail!

Absolutely, I understand they get all the cheap housing in cities as well as access to all the best drugs.

Curse my white white skin

:) Actually I have. With you anyway. It is as just as racist to say blacks are better at phisical abilities, as it is to say whites are better at intellectual ones.
Which is to say not necessarily racist at all, (although certainly grammatically incorrect).

"You are the weakest bigot, goodbye."
I giggle.

My god people, please try to keep up.

I do that by not paying attention. :)

I've been saying this all along. There is a double standard when it comes to racism. Blacks (AKA African Americans. We call them this because we want to be completely PC and make sure we don't make them mad.) get treated specially to make up for slavery and past racism I guess, but why? If we really want to treat blacks fairly, then treat them just like whites. No exceptions. No double standards. Also, I don't think it's racist to say blacks are better at basketball than whites. Just look at the statistics. In the same way, I feel it's fair to say that whites do better in school and generally get better jobs than blacks. There are reasons for this, but it's not racist, it's just a fact. Statistics don't lie.

...

I knew what you were referring to. I was hoping you'd take the picture in good humour as it was intended.

I'm sorry...just a brief lookover of the thread shows you've been knee deep in the mud with some idiots here...you're probably a bit too stressed for that kind of random humour.
You know, I actually have to apologise...I didn't click on the picture :D A thousand pardons!

Some folks have said that blacks are discriminated against, and that it's "harder" to be black in America (United States to politically correct fools). I disagree. For an answer I choose sports. Why are there more blacks in Basketball if they're so discriminated against? They make-up 8% of America's population, and are obviously over-represented in Basketball. Are they actually better at sports then whites? No, that would be "racist" to say, now wouldn't it? Are whites less-likely to enjoiy Basketball then blacks? No, just as racist. Plenty of whites watch Basketball.
Are WHITES discriminated against? Not racist, but obviously a preposterous notion. Yet according to a fool's method of deduction, it's obvious.
Please use your divine (sorry, most of you are Athiests here, I didn't mean to offend you) reasoning to explain NS'ers....

Fine, they aren't discriminated against in basketball. Now, what about the rest of life beyond basketball?

Absolutely, I understand they get all the cheap housing in cities as well as access to all the best drugs.

Curse my white white skin

I suggest a nice layer of boot polish, and a few times watching 'Airplane' to get the lingo down. You'll be knee deep in black booty and cheap crack in NO time, for shizzle!

So, rather then proposing an intellectual argument to counter this, you are simply saying: "haha, whatever man, I'm right, you're not, now piss-off!"

Tsk-tsk-tsk.

how often do we have to counter it? This has gone across multiple threads. You just keep saying THE SAME SHIT over and over again, in thread after thread, totally ignoring the refutation over, and over, and over again.

you've lost this argument LONG before this thread starts, and you know it. You don't want an argument, you don't expect debate. You want to state the same shit so many times, and been given the same refutations so many times, and have your argument crushed so many times that people just get fucking fed up with you and don't bother to crush your argument YET AGAIN, and instaed mock you.

You'd have a point, if you hadn't already made the exact same stupid arguments, and had the exact same feutations pushed against you a hafl dozen times already.

youv'e been deflated. You've been defeated. Your position has been shown meritless over and over again. There is no point in doing it ONE MORE TIME to have you not listen, yes, ONE MRE TIME.

It's not worth it. It's far easier, and by now well established, that you're an idiot.

So, rather then proposing an intellectual argument to counter this, you are simply saying: "haha, whatever man, I'm right, you're not, now piss-off!"

Tsk-tsk-tsk.

What the fuck are you getting at this time?

What am I supposed to be countering?

I'm stating for a fact that racism hasn't left the USA, especially in the South.

Do I need a Goddamn source for common knowledge now?

Statistics don't lie.

Not unless New Stalinbrug disagrees with them, then they obviously lie. :rolleyes:

Statistics don't lie.
7 out of 6 blacks in the military would disagree :D

7 out of 6 blacks in the military would disagree :D

<3

/thread

Psst.. use the Ace of Verylargepenises.

Damn! Letting Posi bluff me when I had an Ace up my... sleeve.

Not unless New Stalinbrug disagrees with them, then they obviously lie. :rolleyes:

I'm not disagreeing with any sort of statistics, logical statements, or even illogical statements that at least make sense.

I am however, disagreeing with morons who post topics with ideas and concepts that don't amount to much more than heap of shit.

Sorry, would you like a source for me to back up my statements?

You know, I actually have to apologise...I didn't click on the picture :D A thousand pardons!

Oh goodie. No worries.

Anyway, in addition to my points about ensuring equal educational opportunity, we also have a duty and a responsibility to see to it that everyone is able to support their basic living needs. In most cases they cannot because they are unable to obtain a decent job, thanks to a lack of education. Then they have children and the children never get educated and repeat the cycle.

We have to break it with a serious welfare plan instituted to not only educate every single American who does not have the skills for a job that pays a decent wage(and needs it) but ensure they then obtain those new jobs. We then oversee everything and make sure that they are able to support their basic living needs well.

We have to break that cycle, people. The longer that cycle continues, the worse it gets. Is my method drastic? Absolutely. Will it work? Yes, it will, and if we're lucky and we institute both methods and they work as well as we intend, we'll never have to do it again and this nation and the world will be far better off. Think of the doctors, the scientists, the engineers, the writers, the painters, the what-have-you we'll gain from this. Think of the benefit to America and the entire world such a vast plan will bring.

Everyone will win out of this. I honestly cannot see a downside anywhere in this plan. Admittedly it's extremely rough and I thought it up after being awake for over thirty hours, but it still works.

Do I need a Goddamn source for common knowledge now?

Liberals are morons is also "common knowledge" among certain people. Now can some Liberal say this person is an idiot and show that this "common knowledge" is false. Even if you agree with this idiot, it's obvious they are foolish, and only hurting your argument.

I've been saying this all along. There is a double standard when it comes to racism. Blacks (AKA African Americans. We call them this because we want to be completely PC and make sure we don't make them mad.) get treated specially to make up for slavery and past racism I guess, but why? If we really want to treat blacks fairly, then treat them just like whites. No exceptions. No double standards. Also, I don't think it's racist to say blacks are better at basketball than whites. Just look at the statistics. In the same way, I feel it's fair to say that whites do better in school and generally get better jobs than blacks. There are reasons for this, but it's not racist, it's just a fact. Statistics don't lie.

Nice not so subtle racism there, your own 'conclusion' at the end there is nothing but racism justified by 'statistics' you are saying that naturally in genetic terms whites are more intelligent intellectually than blacks, and blacks are only good at running around in sport. That in itself is racism because your denying the concept of universal merit in favor of race based merit, that blacks will only ever be sportsmen/women and whites only business operators etc.

I don't expect a hick like you to understand this, but the very statistics hicks like you quote prove and lay out that individuals and communities in low socio-economic brackets themselves have low equality of opporunity, which means low equality of employment, income and yes education. It is because of this class antagonism and the fact of a concentrated wealth in classes mainly white that blacks will generally do worst in life, not because of the race based merit crap you say. Everyone should have equal chance to suceed in life under the principle of social justice.

Liberals are morons is also "common knowledge" among certain people. Now can some Liberal say this person is an idiot and show that this "common knowledge" is false. Even if you agree with this idiot, it's obvious they are foolish, and only hurting your argument.

Yeah... you fail.

For now I have more important things to do other than argue with blathering idiots on the internet, like watching late night with Conan.

I suggest a nice layer of boot polish, and a few times watching 'Airplane' to get the lingo down. You'll be knee deep in black booty and cheap crack in NO time, for shizzle!

I've tried but, alas, I can't jump.

I'm not disagreeing with any sort of statistics, logical statements, or even illogical statements that at least make sense.

I am however, disagreeing with morons who post topics with ideas and concepts that don't amount to much more than heap of shit.

Sorry, would you like a source for me to back up my statements?

Silly sorces. Would you say that whites are discriminated agaisnt in athletic matters?

Fine, they aren't discriminated against in basketball. Now, what about the rest of life beyond basketball?

They are discriminated for in Basketball according to your logic. Would you agree?

Yeah... you fail.

For now I have more important things to do other than argue with blathering idiots on the internet, like watching late night with Conan.

Conan good. I suppose you're not so-dumb if you like him.

They are discriminated for in Basketball according to your logic. Would you agree?

Where's any discrimination?

It's not as if anyone is excluded for colour, people are excluded for being crap at the game.

Over-representation of blacks in basketball is because more blacks per population try out for basketball.

The entire premise of your argument is ridiculous.

Humans are inherently racist. Until humans cease being stupid, racism will still exist.

Get this: Racism exists in the UK, France, and any other damn country in the world because we are all stupid humans. Its still not right, but it will never be eliminated from our minds until we evolve more.

I still say gangs and drugs are what is keeping the American black community from being better over all, but hell, drugs and gangs in ALL communities keep EVERYONE down.

They are discriminated for in Basketball according to your logic. Would you agree?

Where did that come from?

You were taking representation in one sport in your OP as proof that the notion of discrimination against blacks is void. I'm asking you to account for every other area of life in which discrimination can exist so that you aren't left arguing from a fallacy, but you seem to have more of a hard-on for basketball than I thought.

Where's any discrimination?

It's not as if anyone is excluded for colour, people are excluded for being crap at the game.

Over-representation of blacks in basketball is because more blacks per population try out for basketball.

The entire premise of your argument is ridiculous.

Thank You, I agree completely. Now using that logic, you would agree blacks aren't discriminated from becoming rich.

Humans are inherently racist. Until humans cease being stupid, racism will still exist.
Humans will always be stupid. One day we will all be one race. That is when racism will stop and we'll have more time to concentrate on sexism instead. :p

Thank You, I agree completely. Now using that logic, you would agree blacks aren't discriminated from becoming rich.

It's not a coincidence that more blacks per population are in boxing, basketball, drugs, crime, the military or in prison - it's nothing to do with ability.

You're not looking at why more black people try out for basketball, nor the effects it has on the greater black population.

Thank You, I agree completely. Now using that logic, you would agree blacks aren't discriminated from becoming rich.

yes, because becomming a professonal basketball player is an option for all black children to pursue....:rolleyes:

Guys, statistics don't lie, they clearly prove that blacks are only genetic capable of sports, and that whites are clearly superior genetic material.

What the hell? I can find a Black-Supremist site easy. What's your point?
No-one will answer why there are more blacks in Basketball!

Not commenting on racism on America at all, but your argument is pretty weak. As if basketball has any relevance to the day-to-day realities of normal American life.

Guys, statistics don't lie, they clearly prove that blacks are only genetic capable of sports, and that whites are clearly superior genetic material.

Pardon? Just where do statistics prove that?

Thank You, I agree completely. Now using that logic, you would agree blacks aren't discriminated from becoming rich.

1: Being rich often requires an education
2: getting an education requires either rich parents, good grades, or a combination of the two.
3: very few black people are rich. Black people are disproportionately poor. From the US Census (http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/002484.html):
* In 2003, among people who reported a single race, the poverty rate for non-Hispanic whites was 8.2 percent, unchanged from 2002. Although non-Hispanic whites had a lower poverty rate than other racial groups, they accounted for 44 percent of the people in poverty.
* For blacks, neither the poverty rate nor the number in poverty changed between 2002 and 2003. People who reported black as their only race, for example, had a poverty rate of 24.4 percent in 2003.
4: Poverty impedes successful education.
From The Department of Education (http://www.ed.gov/pubs/schoolpoverty/index.html)
The gap in average math scores between 9-year-olds in high and low-poverty schools was 22 points in 1996, down from a 28-point gap in 1992 and a 24-point gap in 1994. While an improvement, as a ten-point difference on NAEP is approximately equal to one grade level, the average math achievement for 9-year-olds in high-poverty schools still falls more than two grade levels behind performance in low-poverty schools.

In conclusion, poverty leads in most cases to a lack of education. A lack of education leads to an inability to rise above your economic position.

I'm going to concede on this issues.

1: Being rich often requires an education
2: getting an education requires either rich parents, good grades, or a combination of the two.
3: very few black people are rich. Black people are disproportionately poor. From the US Census (http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/002484.html):
4: Poverty impedes successful education.
From The Department of Education (http://www.ed.gov/pubs/schoolpoverty/index.html)


In conclusion, poverty leads in most cases to a lack of education. A lack of education leads to an inability to rise above your economic position.

Alright, so you think whites are discriminated against from getting in a good phisical condition?

It's not a coincidence that more blacks per population are in boxing, basketball, drugs, crime, the military or in prison - it's nothing to do with ability.

You're not looking at why more black people try out for basketball, nor the effects it has on the greater black population.

Probably more whites try-out for high-paying jobs. Were they discouraged from sports?

Guys, statistics don't lie, they clearly prove that blacks are only genetic capable of sports, and that whites are clearly superior genetic material.

Whites are "genetically superior?!" What kind of bullshit is that? What standards are you judging people by? Resistance to disease? Longer lifespan? Are you trying to say that whites are just more intelligent from birth?
And let's see these statistics that "clearly prove that blacks are only genetic capable of sports."

Oh, and to name a few blacks that clearly capable of more than sports:
• Fredrick Douglass
• W.E.B. Du Bois
• Martin Luther King jr.
• Barak Obama
• Oprah Winfrey
• Rosa Parks
• Sojourner Truth

And as a reply that blacks are equal to whites in society because of their involvement in sports and entertainment, I would ask you to consider why the poorest neighborhood in New York, the Bronx, is largely black (as well as Hispanic). Furthermore, if blacks are doing so well as you say, then why is the unemployment rate of African Americans 12.2 while the white unemployment rate is 3.8? U.S. Department of Labor (http://www.bls.gov/lau/table14full04.pdf)
--------------------------------
And I save this for last because I don't like to use Ad hominem in my arguments, but racism is defined as the belief that one racial category is innately superior or inferior to another. So if no one ever told you this before, Andaras Prime, you are a flagrant racist.

Alright, so you think whites are discriminated against from getting in a good phisical condition?

Where the fuck did I say that? I would posit that I fucking did not say that!

However, I will say that it is likely a combination of black people being somewhat taller on average, as well as basketball being a poor man's sport, as well as the people who train and hire basketball players having some bias toward blacks, because "white men can't jump."

Basketball, within the culture of black America, has a very high importance. It's often seen as the only way of getting out of your situation of poverty. So, like the lottery out of 1984, a lot of black kids play a lot of basketball (it also helps that it's cheap) and because of that, some of them get really good at it, and because of that, some of them go pro.

Some folks have said that blacks are discriminated against, and that it's "harder" to be black in America (United States to politically correct fools). I disagree.

This is foolish and cowardly.

In my thread The State of Black America (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=526479) I provided copious evidence that blacks are, as a group, severely disadvantaged in the United States. I also provided copious evidence that blacks are activitely discriminate against in employment.

You briefly replied to these arguments with your "blacks are lazy" argument, until I showed that laziness couldn't explain unemployment rates. At that point you apologized.

The simple facts remain: Blacks are severely disadvantaged in the U.S. Blacks suffer from the legacy of past discrimination and from current active discrimination.

Nothing you have said in you OP changes these truths -- which you are apparently afraid to comfront directly.


For an answer I choose sports. Why are there more blacks in Basketball if they're so discriminated against? They make-up 8% of America's population, and are obviously over-represented in Basketball. Are they actually better at sports then whites? No, that would be "racist" to say, now wouldn't it? Are whites less-likely to enjoiy Basketball then blacks? No, just as racist. Plenty of whites watch Basketball. Are WHITES discriminated against? Not racist, but obviously a preposterous notion.
Yet according to a fool's method of deduction, it's obvious.
Please use your divine (sorry, most of you are Athiests here, I didn't mean to offend you) reasoning to explain NS'ers....

Other posters have already gone to lengths to explain why blacks would be disproportionately present in basketball.

How many fortune 500 corporate CEOs that you know of are black? How many simply have higher end jobs that don't involve athletics? How many get a fair crack at proper education to get those jobs without having the talent to play a game at a high level? Racism exists, and you can't ignore it. Crosses are still being burned, and job/housing/social discrimination are still a problem. There's a reason why young black men think that being the next Jordan is the only way to get out freom under their background. That's because in the vast majority of cases it's painfully true.

It's not a coincidence that more blacks per population are in boxing, basketball, drugs, crime, the military or in prison - it's nothing to do with ability.

You're not looking at why more black people try out for basketball, nor the effects it has on the greater black population.

Who the fuck ever said that?

Fine, you want a real answer, ok. Basketball, unlike other sports, is remarkably cheap to play. All you need is a court, a net, and a ball. There's no gear, padding, bats, mits, skates, pucks, or any of the other things that most other sports require.

Therefore it is one of the cheapest sports to play, it it is one of the cheapest sports to maintain, and one of the cheapest sports to start a team in. So the inner city youth are far more likely to play basketball than, say...football, which requires a lot more outdoor space (not very common in urban areas after all) and much more padding. So a lot of poorer, city youth play basketball while the richer kids get chances to play more expensive sports such as baseball, football, etc.

now those who play basketball as kids are more likely to grow up with the skill to be professional athletes, and since we can say that basketball is more likely to be played by urban poor, and urban poor are more likely to be black, more blacks will become professional basketball players, because that's the only sport they got to play as kids in the first place.

Now I think we can dispense with this shit.

why?
Simple answer is that Basketball is a poor man's sport and Blacks are poor. That's why they're over-represented in Basketball.
And why they're under-represented in rowing, for example. Which is definitely a richman's sport. Yet the physique for a top rower is pretty similar to that of a top basketballer. i.e. Average height of a rower at the Olympics is 6'4". Average height of a basketballer is 6'5". Both sports need a lot of power, stamina and coordination.

So why do we not see any blacks rowing, when their over-representation in another sport shows that they have the physiques for it?
A few reasons.
Biggest one of course is money. It costs a few cents to buy a basketball and then go down to the local park. It costs thousands to buy a rowing skiff. How many black families can afford that?
Another is convenience of activity. How many rowing clubs can you find in the inner city ghettos, as opposed to basketball courts?
A third is identification. A young black kid's going to identify himself alot more easily with Michael Jordan than Steve Redgrave. As such he's going to want to play basketball because that's what his hero does.
Fourth is everyone out there thinks that Blacks make good basketball players, because there's so many of them playing the game. So when they see a black kid with a lot of natural skills and ability, everyone around him would more likely tell him to try basketball over any other sport. And thus they self-fulfil their theory about blacks being good at basketball.


To make the claim that because there's lots of blacks in a sport somehow 'proves' they're not discriminated against is asinine, to say the least. the word 'pathetic' also springs to mind. Also, the phrase 'clutching at straws'.


To these fine posts I add side trip down history and through sociology:

Seven decades ago, basketball's biggest stars climbed up from the Philadelphia ghettos. Sportswriters said these "natural athletes" owed their success to their ethnicity. Sounds familiar, except that they were Jewish.

"From 1918 to 1950, the South Philadelphia Hebrew Association, better known as the SPHAs, barnstormed across the East and Midwest, playing in a variety of semiprofessional leagues that were precursors to the modern game." Basketball was, and still is, an urban game, and a way out of the ghetto. For the Jewish superstars of the SPHAs, and many other teams, basketball was freedom from ethnic prejudice, including quotas in education and employment. Jewish boys became basketball stars the same way all sports heroes excel, practice, practice, practice. The Jewish community idolized these basketball "mavens". My mother has two cousins who were part of the Jewish basketball mythology of Philadelphia in the 1940s. For many years, their mother, my beloved Aunt Sarah, kept 8 by 10-inch photographs of each of them, in uniform and dribbling down court, on a table in the entryway to her house. The title of this chapter in Entine's book comes from the 1930s statement by sports writer Paul Gallico that Jews excel in basketball because of "…an alert, scheming mind, flashy trickiness, artful dodging and general smart aleckness." This opinion was popular throughout the period, as my mother's cousins were informed by an anti-Semitic spectator that Jews were good in basketball because they were "short and wirery" and could get under the taller gentile players to make shots.

Today African-Americans dominate basketball. To explain this fact we need not go any further than the social selection hypothesis that explains Jewish domination until 1950?

Further Skeptic publisher Michael Shermer ratchets the discussion up another level to examine the fundamental limitations of nature-vs.-nurture debates. For one thing, he writes, there's the problem of hindsight bias. "However things turn out we tend to look back to justify that particular arrangement with a set of causal explanatory variables presumably applicable to all situations." Case in point: Right now African-Americans happen to dominate basketball, but from the 1920s to the early '40s the sport was disproportionately played by Jews--and at that time scientists argued that Jews were better equipped genetically for it. In the end, cultural and economic factors--the movement of Jews out of and blacks into Northeastern cities, where basketball was the pastime of choice--changed the demographic makeup of the basketball court.

"Why do some black athletes dominate some sports?" Shermer asks. "For the same reason that some white athletes dominate some other sports, and some Asian athletes dominate still other sports--a combination of biological factors and cultural influences." Shermer's philosophy of sport is a compelling one that acknowledges biology and culture without robbing us of free will or individuality: "We are free to select the optimal environmental conditions that will allow us to rise to the height of our biological potentials."

Class dismissed. Your bogeymen have been exposed and dismantled.

Probably more whites try-out for high-paying jobs. Were they discouraged from sports?

Can you let me know your point? Genuinely asking.

Previous post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12692471&postcount=139)

Whites are "genetically superior?!" What kind of bullshit is that? What standards are you judging people by? Resistance to disease? Longer lifespan? Are you trying to say that whites are just more intelligent from birth?
And let's see these statistics that "clearly prove that blacks are only genetic capable of sports."

Oh, and to name a few blacks that clearly capable of more than sports:
• Fredrick Douglass
• W.E.B. Du Bois
• Martin Luther King jr.
• Barak Obama
• Oprah Winfrey
• Rosa Parks
• Sojourner Truth

And as a reply that blacks are equal to whites in society because of their involvement in sports and entertainment, I would ask you to consider why the poorest neighborhood in New York, the Bronx, is largely black (as well as Hispanic). Furthermore, if blacks are doing so well as you say, then why is the unemployment rate of African Americans 12.2 while the white unemployment rate is 3.8? U.S. Department of Labor (http://www.bls.gov/lau/table14full04.pdf)
--------------------------------
And I save this for last because I don't like to use Ad hominem in my arguments, but racism is defined as the belief that one racial category is innately superior or inferior to another. So if no one ever told you this before, Andaras Prime, you are a flagrant racist.

I am pretty sure Andaras Prime was not being even remotely serious. He and Neesika are mocking the OP by pointing out how easily what they are saying can translate to racist-speak.

...black people being somewhat taller on average.

Ah-ha! Now we see BLATANT racism! How DARE you!

I am pretty sure Andaras Prime was not being even remotely serious. He and Neesika are mocking the OP by pointing out how easily what they are saying can translate to racist-speak.

Yes, that's quite obvious.

Ah-ha! Now we see BLATANT racism! How DARE you!

Ok, I'm getting tired of this shit. It's not fucking racist to say that black people tend to be tall. That's physiological reality. It's not racist to acknowledge that there are some slight physical differences between different races.

Is this whole things some kind of bad joke? Are you trying to be Jesussaves, but for black people instead of atheists?

Ok, I'm getting tired of this shit. It's not fucking racist to say that black people tend to be tall. That's physiological reality. It's not racist to acknowledge that there are some slight physical differences between different races.


It's COMPLETELY racist. It's as bad as saying there are mental differences between races.

Don't forget the many programs and scholarship out there to help blacks.

And the relevance of these is ......?

Which no-one seems to admit to. So instead we show them proof they can see every day with their own eyes on T.V.

Show us proof of what on our TV. I just watched the Detriot Pistons. Several Black atheletes on that team. But what does that prove? Nothing.

What the hell? I can find a Black-Supremist site easy. What's your point?
No-one will answer why there are more blacks in Basketball!

Nonsense. Your question has been answered many times. I collected some of those answers and added additional answers in my last post.

It's COMPLETELY racist. It's as bad as saying there are mental differences between races.

except there's one difference. The fact that black people are, on average, taller, is a demonstrably proven fact. We can see it. It's not racist to merely present a fact. It's no more racist to say that jews more commonly are affected by taysachs or that asians tend to have black hair.

This is foolish and cowardly.

Foolish? Perhaps, I'm not above stupid-ignorance. After-all, I'm only human.
Cowardly? ...no...I don't...think...so.

Basically all I'm saying is: if the fact that most CEO's are white is due to discrimination, then the fact that most Basketball players are black is also due to decrimination, or the fact that most comedians are Jewish.
All three ideas are idiotic. We argee two are, however we can't seem to agree on the CEO part for some reason. Please explain why.

except there's one difference. The fact that black people are, on average, taller, is a demonstrably proven fact. We can see it. It's not racist to merely present a fact. It's no more racist to say that jews more commonly are affected by taysachs or that asians tend to have black hair.

Well, whites also have a higher I.Q. then blacks on avarage. It's a fact, but I'm not saying blacks are dumber then whites on avarage, yet you are saying whites are shorter, which is racist.

It's cute really. I'm just tired of the whole "victim" mentality that blacks in America seem to have. Everything is someone else's fault. Didn't get that job, well the company is racist! Got kicked out of your house (for not paying the mortgage/rent) why the landlord just hates you because you're black! Didn't get into college (because you jerked around during high school and got piss poor grades) it's still not your fault if you're black!.

First of all, can you document this "victim" mentality. Blacks don't have a hivemind that I know of. So can you show us the psychology studies demonstrating that blacks just blame racism for all their problems.

Second, do you dispute that blacks in the U.S. are severely disadvantaged? African American men are more than twice as likely to be unemployed as white males and make only 75 percent as much a year. Nearly 25 percent of blacks over 18 live below the poverty line, three times the percentage of whites. Of blacks under 18, 33.5 percent lived in poverty compared to 10 percent of white youths. Studies show systematic and widespread discrimination against blacks in seeking education and employment.

I mean for Christ Sakes, I'm handicapped and do you realize how hard I had to work to even be accepted as 'normal'? (and the countless surgery that I've had) and do I blame other people when things don't go my way. No, I just find out what went wrong, find a solution to the problem, and try again. I don't blame other people for my failings, I don't go around saying "Well they should hire me because I'm handicapped!" I buckled down, work hard and do whatever I need to go to move ahead in life.

Good for you. I'm sure most black people feel the same way. In a way, their blackness is handicap they must overcome because of the racist actions and feelings of others.


Life is hard, life will always be hard, and the only way to make it in this world is by working smart, and hard, and to realize that sometimes, you failed because of something that YOU did.

Yep. And most people of any color will agree with you.

Foolish? Perhaps, I'm not above stupid-ignorance. After-all, I'm only human.
Cowardly? ...no...I don't...think...so.

Basically all I'm saying is: if the fact that most CEO's are white is due to discrimination, then the fact that most Basketball players are black is also due to decrimination, or the fact that most comedians are Jewish.
All three ideas are idiotic. We argee two are, however we can't seem to agree on the CEO part for some reason. Please explain why.

But we can agree that most CEOs are white people due to discrimination. Who isn't?

But we can agree that most CEOs are white people due to discrimination. Who isn't?

Eh? Excuse me?

It's COMPLETELY racist. It's as bad as saying there are mental differences between races.
... what? Saying "Black people tend to be taller than white people" is no different to saying "Black people tend to have darker skin than white people", in terms of discrimination. The whole point is that physical characteristics are irrelevant.

Eh? Excuse me?

The fact that most CEOs are white is due to discrimination.

Discrimination doesn't have to just be negative - you can be discriminated against as well as discriminated for.

... what? Saying "Black people tend to be taller than white people" is no different to saying "Black people tend to have darker skin than white people", in terms of discrimination. The whole point is that physical characteristics are irrelevant.

Depends if it's true or not - are there statistics backing this up or is it a preconceived notion? I've googled yet not found any study.

The fact that most CEOs are white is due to discrimination.

Why do you think that?

Foolish? Perhaps, I'm not above stupid-ignorance. After-all, I'm only human.
Cowardly? ...no...I don't...think...so.

Basically all I'm saying is: if the fact that most CEO's are white is due to discrimination, then the fact that most Basketball players are black is also due to decrimination, or the fact that most comedians are Jewish.
All three ideas are idiotic. We argee two are, however we can't seem to agree on the CEO part for some reason. Please explain why.

Too cowardly to bring this argument into the other thread where it could be dealt with in context.

Too cowardly still to make an actual argument rather than merely waiving aspersions.

It is a flawed analogy in many, many ways.

1. the prevalence of black basketball players is consistent with the same socio-economic factors that once made basketball a jewish game. It is a game well-suited for poor inner-city youth.

2. Not everyone seeks to be a professional basketball player. It is an elite niche. There are only a few new players in the NBA each year.

3. In the other thread, I supplied studies that show barriers to employment of minorities. Not just at entry-level positions, but also of a glass ceiling on the aspirations of minority business people.

4 Every businessman aspires to greater heights in buisness. Every CEO seeks to move up. Change is quite common in business

The control of CEO positions by white males is due to discrimination, both past and present, that keeps such jobs (and such job plans) out of reach of minorities. This is simple fact. Racism is a factor.

Well, whites also have a higher I.Q. then blacks on avarage. It's a fact, but I'm not saying blacks are dumber then whites on avarage, yet you are saying whites are shorter, which is racist.

Please provide us with your documentation that whites have an average higher I.Q than blacks. Explain what an I.Q. means and how this is relevant.

Depends if it's true or not - are there statistics backing this up or is it a preconceived notion? I've googled yet not found any study.
It depends what connotations you attach to it- even if it's wrong, if you're saying black people are taller simply because, well, you thought black people were taller, nothing else, then it's not racism. I'm sure I saw something about it before, but it wasn't online.

The fact that most CEOs are white is due to discrimination.

Discrimination doesn't have to just be negative - you can be discriminated against as well as discriminated for.

Or maybe more white people have the proper education?

And why not mention that more straight people are CEOs than gays?

Depends if it's true or not - are there statistics backing this up or is it a preconceived notion? I've googled yet not found any study.

Right here:

Linda S. Gottfredson, School of Education, University of Delaware“Social Consequences of Group Differences in Cognitive Ability”, 2004page 24 Average IQ
US Whites: 100
US Blacks: 85
US Native Americans: 90
US immigrants from nearby Hispanic regions: 90

Right here:
We're talking about height, not IQ. Besides, IQ is an utterly stupid measure of intelligence IIRC.

To cowardly to bring this argument into the other thread where it could be dealt with in context.


I'm sorry. First-off: the other threads were too-full, and I doubted I could be heard. Second: posting a full thread on the topic makes me easier to find and attack, it does not make me a coward.

We're talking about height, not IQ. Besides, IQ is an utterly stupid measure of intelligence IIRC.

*Blinks*. It has been shown to make you more qualified for certain jobs.
Anyway if you maintain blacks are generally taller, I believe that makes them better suited to play Basketball. Now I.Q. measures something. Perhaps it isn't intelligence, but it does measure how good you are at certain things.

Besides, IQ is an utterly stupid measure of intelligence IIRC.

And a ruler is a stupid way to measure height. Okay, okay, bad comeback.

Right here:

To answer a few:

The Parkus Empire - Linda S. Gottfredson, School of Education, University of Delaware“Social Consequences of Group Differences in Cognitive Ability”, 2004page 24 Average IQ
US Whites: 100
US Blacks: 85
US Native Americans: 90
US immigrants from nearby Hispanic regions: 90

I was talking height not IQ, and the causes for IQ are the same for the causes of blacks being over-represented in basketball - as explained many times already and summarized by Cat-Tribe.

Hamilay - It depends what connotations you attach to it- even if it's wrong, if you're saying black people are taller simply because, well, you thought black people were taller, nothing else, then it's not racism. I'm sure I saw something about it before, but it wasn't online.

Despite connotation, if you're attaching pre-conceived notions based on race then it's racism - I happily give you the benefit of the doubt on the height point but I can't find any evidence.

Parkus Empire - Why do you think that?

The confusion in this thread comes from not distinguishing between causes and effects. CEOs being mainly white and blacks being over-represented in basketball are effects of discrimination. The actual act of discrimination comes from further up the line.

Or maybe more white people have the proper education?

And why not mention that more straight people are CEOs than gays?

Well naturally. There are more straight people then gay people, period.

Well naturally. There are more straight people then gay people, period.

Or maybe there are alot of married successful or otherwise gays who are just afraid to come out because of the intolerant conservative nature of many Americans.

Well naturally. There are more straight people then gay people, period.

It is hard to fathom the depths of Il Ruffino's mind or fully understand the entire meaning within his simple yet loaded lines.

However, if I may be so bold, the analogy would be that given, in general, more white people are in a position to apply for the job of CEO, then it's more likely that CEOs will be white.

Thus, since there are more straight people, then there's more straight people applying for the position of CEOs and therefore CEOs are more likely to be straight.

However, he could be commenting on the curious decline of white-billed warblers in the vast marshes of North Dakota - who can tell?

It is hard to fathom the depths of Il Ruffino's mind or fully understand the entire meaning within his simple yet loaded lines.

However, if I may be so bold, the analogy would be that given, in general, more white people are in a position to apply for the job of CEO, then it's more likely that CEOs will be white.

Thus, since there are more straight people, then there's more straight people applying for the position of CEOs and therefore CEOs are more likely to be straight.

However, he could be commenting on the curious decline of white-billed warblers in the vast marshes of North Dakota - who can tell?

That's true. Ya never can tell with ol' Ivan.

Despite connotation, if you're attaching pre-conceived notions based on race then it's racism - I happily give you the benefit of the doubt on the height point but I can't find any evidence.


http://www.halls.md/chart/height-weight.htm

Or maybe there are alot of married successful or otherwise gays who are just afraid to come out because of the intolerant conservative nature of many Americans.

So your saying Americans would boycott Microsoft if it was found-out Bill Gates was gay? :p That's a laugh. :p

How many fortune 500 corporate CEOs that you know of are black? How many simply have higher end jobs that don't involve athletics? How many get a fair crack at proper education to get those jobs without having the talent to play a game at a high level? Racism exists, and you can't ignore it. Crosses are still being burned, and job/housing/social discrimination are still a problem. There's a reason why young black men think that being the next Jordan is the only way to get out freom under their background. That's because in the vast majority of cases it's painfully true.

In fairness, you cannot prove it by generalised examples. Thats rhetoric. Those statements you made are far more likly to be caused by a varity of social forces, of which racisim can be just a part.

So your saying Americans would boycott Microsoft if it was found-out Bill Gates was gay? :p That's a laugh. :p

No, I am just saying that in communities and extended family groups or otherwise what are considered 'social norms' are very rigid and going outside would result in estrangement or the like from family or friends.

No, I am just saying that in communities and extended family groups or otherwise what are considered 'social norms' are very rigid and going outside would result in estrangement or the like from family or friends.

Well, only an idiot would want to keep friendship like that, so I don't feel sorry.

Well, only an idiot would want to keep friendship like that, so I don't feel sorry.

Sorry to tell you, but most relationships are superficial, doesn't mean their worthless.

Sorry to tell you, but most relationships are superficial, doesn't mean their worthless.

Well what makes them "worth" something?

Sorry to tell you, but most relationships are superficial, doesn't mean their worthless.

Oh, and there are plenty of acceptant people in America. NS is a good example.

Oh, and there are plenty of accpetant people in America. NS is a good example.

I am not talking alone about really intolerant people, in some cases it would be that they could be 'viewed' differently in relationships etc.

I am not talking alone about really intolerant people, in some cases it would be that they could be 'viewed' differently in relationships etc.

Like how?

No sir, you still haven't answered my question. We're talking PROFESSIONAL sports here. Why, are there so many blacks playing? So say it's because they can't become CEO's is silly.
"Duh, um, whites become CEO's 'cause they can't get into sports...duh...."

Isn't the REAL question you were meaning to ask "Why is basketball the only sport with a disproportionatly large amount of black players"?
Now, I'm neither USAmerican nor into sports, but how many black hockey players do you have? What's the percentage of black baseballers? How many black tennis players did the US send to Wimbeldon? Is the percentage similarly off in those professional sports as well?

My explanation would be this :
People follow role models. And people identify with role models. It's the same basic pattern that is responsible for the majority of nurses being female and the majority of airline pilots being male. Becoming a nurse is an easier choice for a female than becoming a pilot I'm not saying there isn't an equal amount of work involved in becoming either of the two, but there are more female nurses, it's socially acceptable, it's made easier. Male nurses and female pilots can expect a similar level of obstacles being put in their way when chosing their profession, they can expect a similar amount of teasing or even harrasing from instructors and colleagues. Most men wouldn't even consider becoming a nurse, not as a conscious choice but because it really never occurs to them.

So you've got one (if you count the music industry maybe two) fields in which black people find successful role models, and in which they feel that there are options and chances for them. Two fields for 13% of the population. That's not exactly equality, and not exactly something to be proud of.

http://www.halls.md/chart/height-weight.htm

I'm no good with graphs but it looks to me that white people are taller on average - can anyone confirm that?

Some folks have said that blacks are discriminated against, and that it's "harder" to be black in America (United States to politically correct fools). I disagree. For an answer I choose sports. Why are there more blacks in Basketball if they're so discriminated against? They make-up 8% of America's population, and are obviously over-represented in Basketball. Are they actually better at sports then whites? No, that would be "racist" to say, now wouldn't it? Are whites less-likely to enjoiy Basketball then blacks? No, just as racist. Plenty of whites watch Basketball.
Are WHITES discriminated against? Not racist, but obviously a preposterous notion. Yet according to a fool's method of deduction, it's obvious.
Please use your divine (sorry, most of you are Athiests here, I didn't mean to offend you) reasoning to explain NS'ers....

Yes, what a crushing....

I'm no good with graphs but it looks to me that white people are taller on average - can anyone confirm that?

huh... apparently I was wrong. apparently black people are on average very slightly shorter than white people (if these graphs are to be trusted.) you learn something new about your presuppositions every day.

I'm white and rascism has never played a role in my life. I'm wealthy and i live in an upper class area and i live next door to a black family(omg there are rich blacks:eek:). I'm a prosecutor and i have black colleagues (omg there are black lawyers:eek:). And i have black friends. I went to Harvard and there was blacks there.

I have no problem with blacks, and i've never met a black who has had a problem with me for being white. There is nothing i hate more then rascists(both white rascists and black rascists).

Rascism comes from stereotyping which comes from ignorance.

I'm white and rascism has never played a role in my life. I'm wealthy and i live in an upper class area and i live next door to a black family(omg there are rich blacks:eek:). I'm a prosecutor and i have black colleagues (omg there are black lawyers:eek:). And i have black friends. I went to Harvard and there was blacks there.

I have no problem with blacks, and i've never met a black who has had a problem with me for being white. There is nothing i hate more then rascists(both white rascists and black rascists).

Rascism comes from stereotyping which comes from ignorance.

Thumbs up for reading comprehension... :rolleyes:
Did you even take a look at what this thread is about?

I'm wealthy and i live in an upper class area and i live next door to a black family(omg there are rich blacks:eek:). I'm a prosecutor and i have black colleagues (omg there are black lawyers:eek:). And i have black friends. I went to Harvard and there was blacks there.

Yes - the boss class doesn't care about your skin, merely if you're rich - just look at good ol' Condi and Colin.

Here comes the black boss, same as the white boss...

Of course, in terms of discrimination, labelling of deviance, and all that sort of thing, it really doesn't help being black and poor.

Thumbs up for reading comprehension... :rolleyes:
Did you even take a look at what this thread is about?

Harvard graduates can't spell racists these days?

Thumbs up for reading comprehension... :rolleyes:
Did you even take a look at what this thread is about?

Thank you. And yes, i did.

Thank you. And yes, i did.

Jolly good. Now explain why it is that the American prison population is disproportionately black, please. :)

Yes - the boss class doesn't care about your skin, merely if you're rich - just look at good ol' Condi and Colin.

Here comes the black boss, same as the white boss...

Of course, in terms of discrimination, labelling of deviance, and all that sort of thing, it really doesn't help being black and poor.

Black and poor is as bad as white and poor.

Harvard graduates can't spell racists these days?

Just because I'm a Harvard graduate does not make me immune to typing mistakes.

Thank you. And yes, i did.

Well, then how does your argument relate to the statement that there seems to be a disproportionately large number of black professional basketball players, and how that could demonstrate that there is no more discrimination to speak of in the US?

Just because I'm a Harvard graduate does not make me immune to typing mistakes.

To misquote Lady Bracknell - one can be considered a mistake; four begins to look like carelessness.

Are you as careless in your prosecutions?

I don't normally pick up on spelling as it has nothing to do with a debate but when you're making such fantabulous claims, it's warranted.

Black and poor is as bad as white and poor.

Actually, no. It's slightly worse - being non-white and poor in the US is a bad thing to be. As I said, one example is that the prison population is disproportionately black. It's all about the labelling, you see - black people get labelled more frequently as rapists, murderers, thugs, etc etc. This then drives people's fear, it feeds back to the police force, and they arrest blacks more often, which then means that the labelling is reinforced.

All of this then means that the people so labelled think to themselves "hey, yeh, I am a [whatever]!" - note that this cycle is not unbreakable, but it's hard to get out of.

So... you going to answer my query about why you think the prison pop. is disproportionately skewed in the US to blacks? Moreover, why do you think it's skewed to the poor and disenfranchised?

I'd be very interested to know what you, as an Ivy League graduate, has to say about that.

Jolly good. Now explain why it is that the American prison population is disproportionately black, please. :)

I don't see why race comes into the question when discussing social problems. Just because the prison population is disproportianatley black does not make it a race issue. Why does race come into the equation when discussing the people in prison.

About 12% of the population is black. If black were underproportioned in the prison system would it mean America is rascist against whites? The social issues related to the prison population shouldn't be talked about in a racial context.

I don't see why race comes into the question when discussing social problems. Just because the prison population is disproportianatley black does not make it a race issue. Why does race come into the equation when discussing the people in prison.

About 12% of the population is black. If black were underproportioned in the prison system would it mean America is rascist against whites? The social issues related to the prison population shouldn't be talked about in a racial context.

Racism is a social issue. It's a social construct, after all, and one way of determining if it influences people is taking a look at general statistics. Prison stats, average income, etc.
Single instances can be misleading in this context. The fact that Pakistan once had a female prime minister does not mean that women in Pakistan have the same chances and possibilities as men.

I don't see why race comes into the question when discussing social problems.

Because it's an issue! It's like gender, or religion - ethnicity and race are used to divide the population and create 'others' that can be used as a tool of fear to keep people in line, amongst other things. America has a long history of racism. This has produced significant social problems, namely the impoverishment of blacks and, among other groups, Amerindians. The prospects for black men in America are bleak; because they are black.

To answer your question, if blacks were a lower proportion of the prison population than as a proportion of the population as a whole, and they were the racial group who were in charge of the nation and has a lot going for them, then yes, I would suspect that racism or at the very least subconcious discrimination was to a great extent responsible.

Of course, we can't examine this without approaching class, either - the working class regardless of their skin colour gets the (very) short end of the stick in the US - again, the prison population is disproportionately poor; while middle-class and upper-class criminals and delinquents get away with crimes that would see them in jail otherwise for a number of reasons. The ability to hire a better lawyer, the ability to play the 'respectable' card, the 'old school tie' card... and so on.

It's complex, as it always is in life, but the fact is that black, working class, people are discriminated against by the current social and economic systems in place in the US.

Actually, no. It's slightly worse - being non-white and poor in the US is a bad thing to be. As I said, one example is that the prison population is disproportionately black. It's all about the labelling, you see - black people get labelled more frequently as rapists, murderers, thugs, etc etc. This then drives people's fear, it feeds back to the police force, and they arrest blacks more often, which then means that the labelling is reinforced.

All of this then means that the people so labelled think to themselves "hey, yeh, I am a [whatever]!" - note that this cycle is not unbreakable, but it's hard to get out of.

So... you going to answer my query about why you think the prison pop. is disproportionately skewed in the US to blacks? Moreover, why do you think it's skewed to the poor and disenfranchised?

I'd be very interested to know what you, as an Ivy League graduate, has to say about that.

Yes, i agree with you that blacks are overproportioned in the prison system because of the cycle you mentioned. Which was caused by rascism previous to this generation.

And the social problems hundreds of years of rascism have caused are only starting to be fixed. Now in 2007, we have a leading candidate for the Presidency who is black. Barack Obama will be a shining example to the minorities of america that Race will not stand in your way anymore. You can make it to the top.

The cycle of problems caused by generations of rascism is slowly being corrected. With things like a black secretary of state, a black Presidential candidate. Things will get better for black america, and the reasons they have problems today is not because of rascism today, but because of rascism that happened in previous generations.

the reasons they have problems today is not because of rascism today

Not entirely, no, and as you say a good deal of it is historically founded.

But there is still a good deal of labor market discrimination, disparate treatment in terms of public services, and racist undercurrents in the media.

Now in 2007, we have a leading candidate for the Presidency who is black. Barack Obama will be a shining example to the minorities of america that Race will not stand in your way anymore. You can make it to the top.

:rolleyes:

Yeh... see, that's the lie of the American Dream. That'd be Barack 'Typical Upper-Middle Class Bastard' Obama.

It's like saying "look! Look! All the previous presidents have been white! You too, Jim-Bob McHick of Darkest Alabama's scummiest trailer park can be the Pres! Oh no, wait, you're not Ivy League, you don't know the right people, and you haven't got a hope in hell of getting a better paid job than car wash attendant. HA HA"

Racism is still an issue. Yes, it's super-slowly getting better, but that doesn't mean it's gone away. The US still has lots of racists, varying from the KKK to the "I'm not a racist but..." type.

Not entirely, no, and as you say a good deal of it is historically founded.

But there is still a good deal of labor market discrimination, disparate treatment in terms of public services, and racist undercurrents in the media.

Most notably seen in a Harvard graduate calling himself Westcoast Thugs - is it cool to glorify the more violent aspect of Black America when you're a rich white boy?

Why not call yourself the Trenchcoat Mafia?

Why not call yourself the Trenchcoat Mafia?

That is a much better name than "lulz Westcoast fugs hur hur" to be fair.

Personally, Believe! Obey! Fight! would be quite a fun name.

Most notably seen in a Harvard graduate calling himself Westcoast Thugs - is it cool to glorify the more violent aspect of Black America when you're a rich white boy?

Why not call yourself the Trenchcoat Mafia?

I'm a fan of rap music.

What the hell? I can find a Black-Supremist site easy. What's your point?
No-one will answer why there are more blacks in Basketball!

because basketball is cheaper. no equipment, no large stadiums, practice fields, swimming pools, or expensive manicured lawns required. because blacks have been oppressed and still face racism poverty is a reality for many, and basketball is easier under conditions of extreme poverty. I'm sure people have answered this a dozen times by now but its so retardedly annoying to see you talking I had to respond.

a recent study published in Minnesota showed that a white man who put down he had done 18 months in prison for cocaine was more likely to get a job than a black man with identical qualifications and dress who had never gone to prison. published in 2006. my sociology book is not handy but I could look up the source if you insist. racism and resultant poverty is alive and well.

You know it's hard out here for a Honky (you ain't knowin)
When he tryin to get his props on the court (you ain't knowin)
Or get outa payin' child support (you ain't knowin)
Because a whole lot of negros talkin shit (you ain't knowin)
Will have a whole lot of bitches talkin shit (you ain't knowin)
Will have a whole lot of Plebs talkin shit (you ain't knowin)

In my eyes I done seen some crazy thangs in the streets
Gotta couple Mexes workin on the lines for me
But I gotta keep my game tight like Jeter on game night
Like takin shit from a ho don't know no better, I know that ain't right
Done seen Negros promoted, done seen women voted
Done seen Whitey lose his perks while minorities gloated
It's fucked up where I live, but that's just how it is
It might be new to you, but it's been like this for years
It's blood sweat and tears when it come down to this shit
I'm tryin to get rich 'fore I leave up out this bitch
I'm tryin to have thangs but it's hard fo' a Honky
But I'm prayin and I'm hopin to God I don't slip, yeah.

You know it's hard out here for a Honky...

You know, some of my friends wanted to be like black people.

But then they figured out the where white middle-class suburbanists.

You know, some of my friends wanted to be like black people.

But then they figured out the where white middle-class suburbanists.

So there are no middle class blacks...?

Some folks have said that blacks are discriminated against, and that it's "harder" to be black in America (United States to politically correct fools). I disagree. For an answer I choose sports. Why are there more blacks in Basketball if they're so discriminated against? They make-up 8% of America's population, and are obviously over-represented in Basketball. Are they actually better at sports then whites? No, that would be "racist" to say, now wouldn't it? Are whites less-likely to enjoiy Basketball then blacks? No, just as racist. Plenty of whites watch Basketball.
Are WHITES discriminated against? Not racist, but obviously a preposterous notion. Yet according to a fool's method of deduction, it's obvious.
Please use your divine (sorry, most of you are Athiests here, I didn't mean to offend you) reasoning to explain NS'ers....

Bwhahah great argument crusher!

So beacuse we can possibliy show some things that do not discriminate, or where blacks are in the majority that shows that overall general discrimination based on skin colour does not take place?

Then why are southern white racists generally affluent and blacks not?

I didn't think they were.

I'm a fan of rap music.

Lucky you. Personally, I'd recommend a hearing aid.

Really though, what commends it to you? The Lyrical genius? The incisive, compelling social commentary? Or the exhortations to shoot up fags?

Lucky you. Personally, I'd recommend a hearing aid.

Really though, what commends it to you? The Lyrical genius? The incisive, compelling social commentary? Or the exhortations to shoot up fags?

Yes, yes and double yes. And I don't like all rap, just Eminem and Tupac.:cool:

That is probably the most racist thing I've ever read, I mean my God, is your dad the Grand Dragon of the local Ku Klux Klan group? Comon, I know that you're trying to be ironic, but it failed, it failed big time and honestly, I now think that you are a racist.

She's allowed to say those things, she is a non-white...

Lucky you. Personally, I'd recommend a hearing aid.

Really though, what commends it to you? The Lyrical genius? The incisive, compelling social commentary? Or the exhortations to shoot up fags?

:rolleyes:

Must we go into this again? It's not as though all rap is the horrid gangsta rap they play on MTV.

I'd like to pose a question here. It has been shown that people below the poverty line are more likely not to fill out census forms. It has also been shown that it is more likely for blacks to be below the poverty line. Would this infer that blacks are more likely to not fill out census forms and, therefore, not be counted?

Then why are southern white racists generally affluent and blacks not?

industry and smarts vs. sloth and ignorance

It's very hard to bury the enslavement problem. The enslavement of Africans back then was a hot commodity like oil today. Slavery made America richer. All I hear or see is white folks trying to shut up blacks but that doesn't help anything, it only heats up the debate. As for blacks in sports, watch how white folks get much richer off of blacks sweating. Black folks just got their freedom in the 60’s, even though their ancestors arrived way before most white-Americans. White folks kept using the “freedom” or “liberty” words while they enslaved blacks back then and the same hypocrisy exists today (Middle-East). Of course not all white folks are racist, it’s just that few morons seem to be much louder then the reasonable people in America.

Then why are southern white racists generally affluent and blacks not?

Nearly southern white racists are mullet-bearing rednecks who live in dilapidated double-wides, drink Natty Lite and drive a pickup truck made in 1981 with a confederate battle flag on the back bumper.

*who are married to their cousins, I might add.

I'm going to concede on this issues.

Good, and next time you bring up this shit, I'm going to remind you of how roundly pummeled you were here.

It's very hard to bury the enslavement problem. The enslavement of Africans back then was a hot commodity like oil today. Slavery made America richer. All I hear or see is white folks trying to shut up blacks but that doesn't help anything, it only heats up the debate. As for blacks in sports, watch how white folks get much richer off of blacks sweating. Black folks just got their freedom in the 60’s, even though their ancestors arrived way before most white-Americans. White folks kept using the “freedom” or “liberty” words while they enslaved blacks back then and the same hypocrisy exists today (Middle-East). Of course not all white folks are racist, it’s just that few morons seem to be much louder then the reasonable people in America.

You sound like one of them civil rights types. Probably believe in miscegenating too. Sweet Mercy!

What the hell? I can find a Black-Supremist site easy. What's your point?
No-one will answer why there are more blacks in Basketball!

Do you seriously think the NBA is representative of the general climate of America? Tell me you have a logical argument.

There are more mexicans working at Chi-Chis therefore they have a higher employment rate than whites. Umm... wait, logic doesn't work that way. When you're trying to talk about the general climate of America you have to choose things that aren't wildly unique situations where things do happen to be mostly meritorious.

I love how many of the "blacks are keeping the white man down" folks managed to show up in a thread where almost no real debate is going other than a bunch illogical hyperbolous arguments that people on tv are representative of the general black population, but cannot manage to show up in a thread like TCT's that showed the actual studies that actually analyze the current culture and what is going on. Hmmmm... could it be that they aren't looking to analyze prejudice but instead propogate it?

industry and smarts vs. sloth and ignorance

Plus the whole owning people thing.

Blacky is not keeping Whitey down. Whitey is not keeping Blacky down. All the race-baiters can kiss my grits!

Blacky is not keeping Whitey down. Whitey is not keeping Blacky down. All the race-baiters can kiss my grits!

Yes, be careful. Wouldn't want to make an argument or examine the evidence? Stupid liberal reality. Besides who can beat a compelling argument like this one. I mean, wow, how could I possibly top this?

I find usually when this is someone's entire argument it's because they are failing at fooling even themselves.

Come on, you must have another good argument, no? Something. I mean, the "we allow them to play sports and they're better at it than us, therefore racism doesn't exist" argument is so compelling.

I think you should go with "Black people are taller, therefore racism doesn't exist." What I find odd, however, is why you started a thread with a title that would describe what would happen to your argument?

I'm a prosecutor and i have black colleagues (omg there are black lawyers:eek:). And i have black friends. I went to Harvard and there was blacks there.

You went to Harvard and are a prosecutor in boston? .....10 bucks says I probably know you...

State or USAO?

Black and poor is as bad as white and poor.

You sure about that. So you, and mind you, you do have black friends so you know, would honestly claim that there are no racial factors that would affect people of various races that would make things not "as bad as".


Just because I'm a Harvard graduate does not make me immune to typing mistakes.

It's a typing error when you do it once. It's a misspelling when you constantly do it. The difference is not subtle.

This is foolish and cowardly.

In my thread The State of Black America (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=526479) I provided copious evidence that blacks are, as a group, severely disadvantaged in the United States. I also provided copious evidence that blacks are activitely discriminate against in employment.

You briefly replied to these arguments with your "blacks are lazy" argument, until I showed that laziness couldn't explain unemployment rates. At that point you apologized.

The simple facts remain: Blacks are severely disadvantaged in the U.S. Blacks suffer from the legacy of past discrimination and from current active discrimination.

Nothing you have said in you OP changes these truths -- which you are apparently afraid to comfront directly.


Other posters have already gone to lengths to explain why blacks would be disproportionately present in basketball.

*Quotes omitted*

To these fine posts I add side trip down history and through sociology:

Seven decades ago, basketball's biggest stars climbed up from the Philadelphia ghettos. Sportswriters said these "natural athletes" owed their success to their ethnicity. Sounds familiar, except that they were Jewish.

"From 1918 to 1950, the South Philadelphia Hebrew Association, better known as the SPHAs, barnstormed across the East and Midwest, playing in a variety of semiprofessional leagues that were precursors to the modern game." Basketball was, and still is, an urban game, and a way out of the ghetto. For the Jewish superstars of the SPHAs, and many other teams, basketball was freedom from ethnic prejudice, including quotas in education and employment. Jewish boys became basketball stars the same way all sports heroes excel, practice, practice, practice. The Jewish community idolized these basketball "mavens". My mother has two cousins who were part of the Jewish basketball mythology of Philadelphia in the 1940s. For many years, their mother, my beloved Aunt Sarah, kept 8 by 10-inch photographs of each of them, in uniform and dribbling down court, on a table in the entryway to her house. The title of this chapter in Entine's book comes from the 1930s statement by sports writer Paul Gallico that Jews excel in basketball because of "…an alert, scheming mind, flashy trickiness, artful dodging and general smart aleckness." This opinion was popular throughout the period, as my mother's cousins were informed by an anti-Semitic spectator that Jews were good in basketball because they were "short and wirery" and could get under the taller gentile players to make shots.

Today African-Americans dominate basketball. To explain this fact we need not go any further than the social selection hypothesis that explains Jewish domination until 1950?

Further Skeptic publisher Michael Shermer ratchets the discussion up another level to examine the fundamental limitations of nature-vs.-nurture debates. For one thing, he writes, there's the problem of hindsight bias. "However things turn out we tend to look back to justify that particular arrangement with a set of causal explanatory variables presumably applicable to all situations." Case in point: Right now African-Americans happen to dominate basketball, but from the 1920s to the early '40s the sport was disproportionately played by Jews--and at that time scientists argued that Jews were better equipped genetically for it. In the end, cultural and economic factors--the movement of Jews out of and blacks into Northeastern cities, where basketball was the pastime of choice--changed the demographic makeup of the basketball court.

"Why do some black athletes dominate some sports?" Shermer asks. "For the same reason that some white athletes dominate some other sports, and some Asian athletes dominate still other sports--a combination of biological factors and cultural influences." Shermer's philosophy of sport is a compelling one that acknowledges biology and culture without robbing us of free will or individuality: "We are free to select the optimal environmental conditions that will allow us to rise to the height of our biological potentials."

Class dismissed. Your bogeymen have been exposed and dismantled.

Foolish? Perhaps, I'm not above stupid-ignorance. After-all, I'm only human.
Cowardly? ...no...I don't...think...so.

Basically all I'm saying is: if the fact that most CEO's are white is due to discrimination, then the fact that most Basketball players are black is also due to decrimination, or the fact that most comedians are Jewish.
All three ideas are idiotic. We argee two are, however we can't seem to agree on the CEO part for some reason. Please explain why.

Too cowardly to bring this argument into the other thread where it could be dealt with in context.

Too cowardly still to make an actual argument rather than merely waiving aspersions.

It is a flawed analogy in many, many ways.

1. the prevalence of black basketball players is consistent with the same socio-economic factors that once made basketball a jewish game. It is a game well-suited for poor inner-city youth.

2. Not everyone seeks to be a professional basketball player. It is an elite niche. There are only a few new players in the NBA each year.

3. In the other thread, I supplied studies that show barriers to employment of minorities. Not just at entry-level positions, but also of a glass ceiling on the aspirations of minority business people.

4 Every businessman aspires to greater heights in buisness. Every CEO seeks to move up. Change is quite common in business

The control of CEO positions by white males is due to discrimination, both past and present, that keeps such jobs (and such job plans) out of reach of minorities. This is simple fact. Racism is a factor.


Just to refresh. The central "argument" of the OP has been copiously rebutted and there has been no answer back.

Bwhahah great argument crusher!

So beacuse we can possibliy show some things that do not discriminate, or where blacks are in the majority that shows that overall general discrimination based on skin colour does not take place?

There is a disproportionate amount of blacks in basketball, considering they occupy well-over 8% of the players in major league. There is also a considerable disproportionate amount of Jews in comedy. There is also a disproportionate amount of white CEO's. If you don't believe the first-two are due to decrimination, what makes you SO certain the third is? That is all I'm asking.

There is a disproportionate amount of blacks in basketball, considering they occupy well-over 8% of the players in major league. There is also a considerable disproportionate amount of Jews in comedy. There is also a disproportionate amount of white CEO's. If you don't believe the first-two are due to decrimination, what makes you SO certain the third is? That is all I'm asking.

I think that Peeplonia is deliberately misrepresenting your argument.

There is a disproportionate amount of blacks in basketball, considering they occupy well-over 8% of the players in major league. There is also a considerable disproportionate amount of Jews in comedy. There is also a disproportionate amount of white CEO's. If you don't believe the first-two are due to decrimination, what makes you SO certain the third is? That is all I'm asking.

Because the sports you list represent a small number of people with a small number of skills. CEOs are from a group of people with broad skills and wide opportunity. If one examines all positions of power in all areas, the result is obvious.

Even mentioning sports, black people are present in "disproportionate" quantities. Who's paying their checks?

There is a disproportionate amount of blacks in basketball, considering they occupy well-over 8% of the players in major league. There is also a considerable disproportionate amount of Jews in comedy. There is also a disproportionate amount of white CEO's. If you don't believe the first-two are due to decrimination, what makes you SO certain the third is? That is all I'm asking.

In addition to other factors, how about the studies showing active racial discrimination in the marketplace?

How about the studies showing the existence of a glass ceiling?

How about a little knowledge of the recent history of this nation and the segregation of races?

Your "question" has been answered. Your point is asinine.

WTF?!?! PAGE 17?!?!

Why are you all still arguing with this idiot???

In addition to other factors, how about the studies showing active racial discrimination in the marketplace?

How about the studies showing the existence of a glass ceiling?

How about a little knowledge of the recent history of this nation and the segregation of races?

Your "question" has been answered. Your point is asinine.

I notice he has time to answer anyone who doesn't present evidence. Isn't that always the way? Anything that actually shows their racism for the fallacy it is, they have to ignore.

Again, I argue that since blacks on average are taller that racism doesn't exist. Makes just as much sense.

Some folks have said that blacks are discriminated against, and that it's "harder" to be black in America (United States to politically correct fools). I disagree. For an answer I choose sports. Why are there more blacks in Basketball if they're so discriminated against? They make-up 8% of America's population, and are obviously over-represented in Basketball. Are they actually better at sports then whites? No, that would be "racist" to say, now wouldn't it? Are whites less-likely to enjoiy Basketball then blacks? No, just as racist. Plenty of whites watch Basketball.
Are WHITES discriminated against? Not racist, but obviously a preposterous notion. Yet according to a fool's method of deduction, it's obvious.
Please use your divine (sorry, most of you are Athiests here, I didn't mean to offend you) reasoning to explain NS'ers....

I dunno...maybe blacks are better at some sports because during the slave trade, White slave owners would throw small or weak slaves overboard and kill them, ensuring that only the strongest slaves survived the middle passage and made it to North America?

Now you answer why there are so many whites in Golf, Hockey and Nascar?