NationStates Jolt Archive

The idea of a heroic last stand for an ideal (such as freedom) has been in my mind recently.
First of all, I'm Texan, and so I was reinforced from an early age with the legend of the Alamo. For foreign readers (or Yankees from up north), the Alamo was an old Spanish mission that was used as a fort by the Texan rebels, attepting a revolution against the Mexican dictatorship of Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna. Surrounded by 6,000 enemy troops, only 183 Texans stood their ground for 13 days, after which the Alamo was stormed, and all defenders were killed. Only the few women that had stayed behind were spared.
Secondly, I went to see 300 several times, the story of the battle of Thermopylae, where 300 Spartans (and 700 Thespians) gaurded the only available pass for the 250,000-strong Persian army. They all died, but not before taking as many Persians as possible with them.
So I was inspired to do this post. Have fun.

As rincewind says "you should never die for a cause, because you only have one life and you can pick up another 5 causes on any street corner" roughly paraphrased,

ya ya but do you have a scenario that illustrates how you would be willing to die for freedom?

and, like the spartans, the texans were only about "freedom" for themselves since they were slaveholders.

If it was something worthwhile, sure.

The Alamo is a pretty badass example. They really threw a monkeywrench at the Mexican army.

It depends on the cause...

Dying for the defense of the Motherland is one thing...

Dying so my brother's basketball team can afford new uniforms...they'll just have to have a bake sale like the rest of us.

Instead of war...we should have bake sales! :)

It depends on the cause...

Dying for the defense of the Motherland is one thing...

Dying so my brother's basketball team can afford new uniforms...they'll just have to have a bake sale like the rest of us.

Instead of war...we should have bake sales! :)

let's convince the US and Iran to settle their differences with a bake-off!! :D

let's convince the US and Iran to settle their differences with a bake-off!! :D

Its only a matter of time before one of them decides to put a hand grenade in a cupcake...and then there's a pie fight...and its just messy.

let's convince the US and Iran to settle their differences with a bake-off!! :D

ooooo good idea.

who would be the judge? france?

The Jewish occupation and defiance against the Romans in Gamla on the Golan Heights in 67AD is pretty impressive in terms of utterly futile, doomed-from-the-start, stands.

I'd live to fight another day. Kill, don't get killed. A dead hero does no one any good.

ooooo good idea.

who would be the judge? france?

I propose IRON CHEF! That Japanese guy with the cape and puffy hair should be the judge.

Why would one be willing to die for a cause whose rewards he/she would not be around to enjoy? It's ridiculous.

I might die to save my family, or my friends, or a big group of innocent people, or an idea I truly believed in. I would never die for a country.

The idea of a heroic last stand for an ideal (such as freedom) has been in my mind recently.
First of all, I'm Texan, and so I was reinforced from an early age with the legend of the Alamo. For foreign readers (or Yankees from up north), the Alamo was an old Spanish mission that was used as a fort by the Texan rebels, attepting a revolution against the Mexican dictatorship of Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna. Surrounded by 6,000 enemy troops, only 183 Texans stood their ground for 13 days, after which the Alamo was stormed, and all defenders were killed. Only the few women that had stayed behind were spared.
Secondly, I went to see 300 several times, the story of the battle of Thermopylae, where 300 Spartans (and 700 Thespians) gaurded the only available pass for the 250,000-strong Persian army. They all died, but not before taking as many Persians as possible with them.
So I was inspired to do this post. Have fun.
Weren't the Texans fighting to keep slavery? What's it worth to die for a bad idea?

I might die to save my family, or my friends, or a big group of innocent people, or an idea I truly believed in. I would never die for a country.

Yeah but you're British... What nationalistic pride CAN you have now that you're giant empire has diminished into what you started with?

I'd die for America, I'd die for her 1,000 times over, then I'd do it again!

To me, there's nothing better than driving my Mustang over to a Cubs game and then eating some apple pie and firing my handgun into the air because I can do that.

Then I can support my wonderful president as he continues to pour his freedom all over the world, not caring what gets maimed or injured in the process!

Yeah... GOD BLESS AMERICA!

Yeah but you're British... What nationalistic pride CAN you have now that you're giant empire has diminished into what you started with?

I'd die for America, I'd die for her 1,000 times over, then I'd do it again!

To me, there's nothing better than driving my Mustang over to a Cubs game and then eating some apple pie and firing my handgun into the air because I can do that.

Then I can support my wonderful president as he continues to pour his freedom all over the world, not caring what gets maimed or injured in the process!

Yeah... GOD BLESS AMERICA!

*releases fireworks and waves around an Uncle Sam sparkler*

Weren't the Texans fighting to keep slavery? What's it worth to die for a bad idea?

Yes... they were fighting to keep slavery.

It had absolutley nothing to do with independence from the Mexicans because their rights were being abused.

Saying the Texans were fighting to keep slavery is like saying the Americans were fighting the British for slavery.

That wasn't their main reason as far as I know.

Yeah but you're British... What nationalistic pride CAN you have now that you're giant empire has diminished into what you started with?

Well....my location thing is listed in order of "alliegence".
I'm Belfast-ish(ian?) first.
Then Northern Irish.
Then, fairly far behind, British.

So yeah, not really a major concern with the whole empire thing...

Weren't the Texans fighting to keep slavery? What's it worth to die for a bad idea?

surely they were also fighting for the right to not be catholic.

the deal they got with the mexican govt is that they would be allowed to settle if they became catholic. slavery was illegal in mexico so that part was an automatic part of the deal.

i should read up on that. there must be some good stories of slaves that took the opportunity to free themselves when their masters moved to texas.

Yes... they were fighting to keep slavery.

It had absolutley nothing to do with independence from the Mexicans because their rights were being abused.

Saying the Texans were fighting to keep slavery is like saying the Americans were fighting the British for slavery.

That wasn't their main reason as far as I know.

'Twas actually a combination of lack of rights and extra taxes. Not exactly the best conditions under which to live.

Yeah but you're British... What nationalistic pride CAN you have now that you're giant empire has diminished into what you started with?


Yeah... GOD BLESS AMERICA!


way to be mean man lol. It may started bad but at one point it was the most powerful country in the world. Maybe history repeats itself.

i'm sure as hell not proud to be american

Weren't the Texans fighting to keep slavery? What's it worth to die for a bad idea?

Uhh...

the Texans were fighting to become independent from Mexico. That and before the independence slavery in TX was outlawed by Mexico, and there were few slaves.

oh and EDIT: I chose option number 2, as i'm not going to die for a cause that is stupid. Although I'd try NOT to die in any of the cases, but still while performing the risk to make that cause survive and win.

I'd live to fight another day. Kill, don't get killed. A dead hero does no one any good.

what about William Wallace (at least in Braveheart :D), he dies and then the other Scottish guys fight the English...A dead hero can sometimes motivate others to a cause is what i guess I'm trying to say...

Uhh...

the Texans were fighting to become independent from Mexico. That and before the independence slavery in TX was outlawed by Mexico, and there were few slaves.

Yeah, Texas was never really a huge slave-driving region/state. Slave populations here always paled in comparison to the Deep South states.

Then again, the general population itself was significantly lower, so...

Yes... they were fighting to keep slavery.

It had absolutley nothing to do with independence from the Mexicans because their rights were being abused.

Saying the Texans were fighting to keep slavery is like saying the Americans were fighting the British for slavery.

That wasn't their main reason as far as I know.
I don't think the British were trying to end slavery in the 1770s . . . so that anology would fail, yes?

what about William Wallace (at least in Braveheart :D), he dies and then the other Scottish guys fight the English...A dead hero can sometimes motivate others to a cause is what i guess I'm trying to say...

Braveheart was too Hollywood-ish, really. The end was ridiculous, as it made it look like Robert the Bruce took his men on a suicide charge. They could've at least had a narrative at the end of the film, stating that he won the battle (which, in reality, he did, and lived well into his sixties), but nope.

I'd die for America, I'd die for her 1,000 times over, then I'd do it again!

To me, there's nothing better than driving my Mustang over to a Cubs game and then eating some apple pie and firing my handgun into the air because I can do that.

Then I can support my wonderful president as he continues to pour his freedom all over the world, not caring what gets maimed or injured in the process!

Yeah... GOD BLESS AMERICA!

*releases fireworks and waves around an Uncle Sam sparkler*

*types through mistfilled eyes*

thank god for george bush our dear leader!

way to be mean man lol. It may started bad but at one point it was the most powerful country in the world. Maybe history repeats itself.

i'm sure as hell not proud to be american

That's sad, my Grandpa was at D-day to protect future ungrateful generations like you, and this is the thanks he gets.

You kind of sound like... dare I say, a Freedom hating terrorist? Because freedom hating terrorists aren't proud of Americans, and since you're not proud to be an American, well by that logic you ARE a terrorist.

It's a good thing we have things like phone tapping and The Patriot Act to defend good citizens such as myself.

I hope they treat you poorly as you're sent to jail for treason you freedom hater.

who would be the judge? france?

You call ziss puff pastry? Come back to me when you learn 'ow to roll phylo dough, American swine. Excuse me, I need to read The Myth of Sisyphus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_myth_of_sisyphus).

I don't think the British were trying to end slavery in the 1770s . . . so that anology would fail, yes?

The British Empire abolished slavery in 1834 after Canada had abolished thanks to John Graves Simcoe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Graves_Simcoe) in 1810...:D

what about William Wallace (at least in Braveheart :D), he dies and then the other Scottish guys fight the English...
And won independance from those sassanach scum!
oh wait..


back to the OP: If I'm gonna get my balls blown off for a word, my word is poontang.

Braveheart was too Hollywood-ish, really. The end was ridiculous, as it made it look like Robert the Bruce took his men on a suicide charge. They could've at least had a narrative at the end of the film, stating that he won the battle (which, in reality, he did, and lived well into his sixties), but nope.

Yea, Battle of Bannockburn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bannockburn), correct?

You call ziss puff pastry? Come back to me when you learn 'ow to roll phylo dough, American swine. Excuse me, I need to read The Myth of Sisyphus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_myth_of_sisyphus).

so...Iran wins?

That's sad, my Grandpa was at D-day to protect future ungrateful generations like you, and this is the thanks he gets.

You kind of sound like... dare I say, a Freedom hating terrorist? Because freedom hating terrorists aren't proud of Americans, and since you're not proud to be an American, well by that logic you ARE a terrorist.

It's a good thing we have things like phone tapping and The Patriot Act to defend good citizens such as myself.

I hope they treat you poorly as you're sent to jail for treason you freedom hater.

YEAH

the only way to keep the freedom fought for by your grandfather is to GIVE IT UP!

so...Iran wins?

Excusez-moi, Madame Iran, but you lack ze troo pazion required for cookeeng. I cannot even zee ze expresion on your face with zat veil. Your quiche lorraine iz an insult to pastry everywhere. Being and Nothingness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_and_nothingness) awaits me; you would not understand such philosophee.

Tie.

YEAH

the only way to keep the freedom fought for by your grandfather is to GIVE IT UP!

Exactly! *puts on party hat and pulls out fireworks*

Wait... but... but... Bush told me...

*shuffles through notes*

Noooooo!!

Excusez-moi, Madame Iran, but you lack ze troo pazion required for cookeeng. I cannot even zee ze expresion on your face with zat veil. Your quiche lorraine iz an insult to pastry everywhere. Being and Nothingness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_and_nothingness) awaits me; you would not understand such philosophee.

Tie.

I don't know if either side is happy with the verdict...

*Iran and USA declare baking war against France...*

...WAIT...If we're fighting wars with fine cuisine...does that make France a world superpower?

The idea of a heroic last stand for an ideal (such as freedom) has been in my mind recently.
First of all, I'm Texan, and so I was reinforced from an early age with the legend of the Alamo. For foreign readers (or Yankees from up north), the Alamo was an old Spanish mission that was used as a fort by the Texan rebels, attepting a revolution against the Mexican dictatorship of Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna. Surrounded by 6,000 enemy troops, only 183 Texans stood their ground for 13 days, after which the Alamo was stormed, and all defenders were killed. Only the few women that had stayed behind were spared.
Secondly, I went to see 300 several times, the story of the battle of Thermopylae, where 300 Spartans (and 700 Thespians) gaurded the only available pass for the 250,000-strong Persian army. They all died, but not before taking as many Persians as possible with them.
So I was inspired to do this post. Have fun.


From my name, I don't no if I need to say anything to voice my opinion, but I will. I know I would die for certain causes, religious, to save many other peoples' lives, deep friendship, or family.

I'd die for a good cause - saving a life, defending my country, dying for my religion... of course, as Captain Reynolds said, "That ain't exactly Plan A." I'll only choose death if the only other option is betraying the cause.

For a Klondike Bar.

...WAIT...If we're fighting wars with fine cuisine...does that make France a world superpower?

They cook snails. I'd say "No".

to the OP: Nope, not dying for a cause. I'll stay low key and annoy the winners. :D

The idea of a heroic last stand for an ideal (such as freedom) has been in my mind recently.
First of all, I'm Texan, and so I was reinforced from an early age with the legend of the Alamo. For foreign readers (or Yankees from up north), the Alamo was an old Spanish mission that was used as a fort by the Texan rebels, attepting a revolution against the Mexican dictatorship of Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna. Surrounded by 6,000 enemy troops, only 183 Texans stood their ground for 13 days, after which the Alamo was stormed, and all defenders were killed. Only the few women that had stayed behind were spared.
Secondly, I went to see 300 several times, the story of the battle of Thermopylae, where 300 Spartans (and 700 Thespians) gaurded the only available pass for the 250,000-strong Persian army. They all died, but not before taking as many Persians as possible with them.
So I was inspired to do this post. Have fun.

Oh for the love of God...

I'm going to leave the Texan Revolution out of this, because what is taught is a story of bullshit.

However, as for Thermopylae, there were 7,000 allied greeks at the battle. Leonidas ordered the majority of the Greeks to retreat after the mountain pass was discovered, but 700 Thespians did stay(As you alluded to, but you forgot to mention the other Greeks involved). You also forget that a massive sea battle was being waged led by the Athenians that was stopping the Persian fleet from flanking the Greeks at the pass.

And it wasn't a last stand, anyway. It was basically done to allow the Greeks to prepare for war.

Braveheart was too Hollywood-ish, really. The end was ridiculous, as it made it look like Robert the Bruce took his men on a suicide charge. They could've at least had a narrative at the end of the film, stating that he won the battle (which, in reality, he did, and lived well into his sixties), but nope.

There are so many problems with that movie, it's not even funny. Not even going to spend the time typing them out.

Secondly, I went to see 300 several times, the story of the battle of Thermopylae, where 300 Spartans (and 700 Thespians) gaurded the only available pass for the 250,000-strong Persian army. They all died, but not before taking as many Persians as possible with them.

And to think the guy who posted to complain that the film 300 would mislead people about history was shouted down along the lines of: "It's a film based on a comic book - nobody would confuse it with reality."

And as for Braveheart... don't get me started.
Droit de seigneur... kilts... painting themselves blue... I mean, just what?

Why bother with excessive self sacrifice when strategic retreat is a perfectly acceptable option?

Why bother with excessive self sacrifice when strategic retreat is a perfectly acceptable option?

People who retreat don't go to Valhalla.

The idea of a heroic last stand for an ideal (such as freedom) has been in my mind recently.
First of all, I'm Texan, and so I was reinforced from an early age with the legend of the Alamo. For foreign readers (or Yankees from up north), the Alamo was an old Spanish mission that was used as a fort by the Texan rebels, attepting a revolution against the Mexican dictatorship of Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna. Surrounded by 6,000 enemy troops, only 183 Texans stood their ground for 13 days, after which the Alamo was stormed, and all defenders were killed. Only the few women that had stayed behind were spared.
Secondly, I went to see 300 several times, the story of the battle of Thermopylae, where 300 Spartans (and 700 Thespians) gaurded the only available pass for the 250,000-strong Persian army. They all died, but not before taking as many Persians as possible with them.
So I was inspired to do this post. Have fun.

neither of these are last stands but calculated sacrifices in the persuit of overwhelming and total victory.

now roukes drift, Dien Bien Phu, they are last stands.

no I don't think I could choose to die on my own accord, mainly because I'm not stupid enough to think that I would go through with such a thing

unbreakable logic there :)

Secondly, I went to see 300 several times, the story of the battle of Thermopylae, where 300 Spartans (and 700 Thespians) gaurded the only available pass for the 250,000-strong Persian army. They all died, but not before taking as many Persians as possible with them.
So I was inspired to do this post. Have fun.

Is there some Greek city-state that has a similar name to this? If not, I'd like to know what 700 actors were doing holding a pass against a hostile army.

FreedomAndGlory;12691336]Why would one be willing to die for a cause whose rewards he/she would not be around to enjoy? It's ridiculous.



People in the military do it on a regular basis they don't thinh it is ridiculous.:sniper:

Why would one be willing to die for a cause whose rewards he/she would not be around to enjoy? It's ridiculous.

People in the military do it and I am sure they dont think it is ridiculous.:sniper:

There are so many problems with that movie, it's not even funny. Not even going to spend the time typing them out.

And to think the guy who posted to complain that the film 300 would mislead people about history was shouted down along the lines of: "It's a film based on a comic book - nobody would confuse it with reality."

And as for Braveheart... don't get me started.
Droit de seigneur... kilts... painting themselves blue... I mean, just what?


yea...I know, I was just saying that If someone does commit a last stand it MAY inspire others to join a cause...the whole idea of I guess "following in the footsteps of a hero"....

Is there some Greek city-state that has a similar name to this? If not, I'd like to know what 700 actors were doing holding a pass against a hostile army.

Yes, they were from Thespiae, and they were allies of the Spartans.

Add: Lucky they weren't from Lesbos, because people from the island of Lesbos are known as... well, I'm sure you can guess.

yea...I know, I was just saying that If someone does commit a last stand it MAY inspire others to join a cause...the whole idea of I guess "following in the footsteps of a hero"....

For sure, but I'd rather people found their heroes in real life, without resorting to taking true events and distorting them.

Maybe I'm just a history anorak, but I think the truth is important.

Dying for a cause just means there'll be less people to fight for that cause. So it's useless. Sentimentalism taken to the extreme.