NationStates Jolt Archive

From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/05/24/cnhonda24.xml
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/802de33a-0966-11dc-a349-000b5df10621.html

Nice choice for the Government to make: Join the Euro and help keep jobs and foreign investment, but be flayed alive for surrendering to the unelected EU eurocrats, surrender monkeys and whatnot; or stay out and risk companies looking elsewhere?

Honda's president Takeo Fukui has threatened to cut off future investment in Britain unless the country joins the euro, admitting that the Japanese car producer had made an "error" building its car plant in Swindon.

"Swindon is close to full operation, but we made one slight mistake: we thought the UK was in Europe. Now we find that it is reluctant to join and that has become a big problem,"

Personally, I think this story should be printed on the front page of the Daily Mail every day for the next week. But is it time for Britain to join the Euro yet, or should we keep the Pound?

don't they know how to look at a map or book

The Government should just threaten to confiscate the Swindon plant from them if they insist on trying to blackmail it into a policy change.

Lesson for today?

Capitalism's a bitch. :)

"Swindon is close to full operation, but we made one slight mistake: we thought the UK was in Europe. Now we find that it is reluctant to join and that has become a big problem,"

Last I checked we were in Europe.

Err how quickly do they assume we can get into the Eurozone?

There'd be pretty large issues unless we were waiting up until the start of 2008 at the very, very least.

Not that I'm against joining the Eurozone, it'd be great, it's just that the practicalities of it are a bitch.

See, if I was Prime Minister, I would beat up their asses, take over Honda, and rule the automotive world. But I can only do that here. *sighs* damned capitalism.

gotta love that 'democracy' we have.

If we don't give in then who cares? Our economy'll take a slight hit but it's mainly dependent on services now anyway, not manufacturing.

Whereas Honda will suffer by having annoyed a nation of sixty million people. That's sixty million fewer potential customers.
Sure, good choice.

Err how quickly do they assume we can get into the Eurozone?

There'd be pretty large issues unless we were waiting up until the start of 2008 at the very, very least.

Not that I'm against joining the Eurozone, it'd be great, it's just that the practicalities of it are a bitch.

try towing it like they did on the Goodies

The Government should just threaten to confiscate the Swindon plant from them if they insist on trying to blackmail it into a policy change.
I can't see that being legal.
Last I checked we were in Europe.

The anti-EU lobby think otherwise.

Last I checked we were in Europe.

I think they mean 'community' wise.

As in 'Not being a great part of the community of European nations' would be my guess.

Personally, I think this story should be printed on the front page of the Daily Mail every day for the next week. But is it time for Britain to join the Euro yet, or should we keep the Pound?

lol i like the idea! ;)

i think we should join ASAP but we have to make sure our exchange rate is beneficial to our economy, as once its pegged to the Euro that's how it'll stay for some time, relatively speaking

though I would love to get rid of the pound (it got old after the 1st time someone afford me a pound and punched me for saying yes:mad:), I don't like Honda's attitude maybe we should take this up with the European courts?:p

also I'd like to say that from now on I will be boycotting Honda for two reasons and the pledge to never visit Swindon is still in place

The anti-EU lobby think otherwise.

what do they know

I have to admit I sniggered....

If we don't give in then who cares? Our economy'll take a slight hit but it's mainly dependent on services now anyway, not manufacturing.

Whereas Honda will suffer by having annoyed a nation of sixty million people. That's sixty million fewer potential customers.
Sure, good choice.
I don't think that's the problem. Honda wants to keep the Swindon plant to supply the British market. However, they also want to supply a growing European market by investing in a Eurozone country, not by expanding British manufacturing.

what do they know

The same thing that the soviet russians know. They know it, but do it backwards. For example:

roses are red
violets are blue
In Soviet Russia
Poem writes you!

Felle free to throw tomatoes at me now. :p

I don't think that's the problem. Honda wants to keep the Swindon plant to supply the British market. However, they also want to supply a growing European market by investing in a Eurozone country, not by expanding British manufacturing.

The cars can be exported? Admittedly it would be cheaper and easier if we went along with their wishes, but should we really do that just because of a car manufacturer?

The cars can be exported? Admittedly it would be cheaper and easier if we went along with their wishes, but should we really do that just because of a car manufacturer?
They won't export cars from the UK to Europe because of the strength of the Pound. The problem is, though, what if this becomes a trend in industry, and not just related to car manufacturing. I don't really think we should be in a situation where we could potentially be at a disadvantage where jobs and investment are concerned, if we don't have to.

the pledge to never visit Swindon is still in place
Used to live near there - you're making the right choice. If there ever was a town more the arsehole of anywhere else, I've thankfully yet to visit it.

They won't export cars from the UK to Europe because of the strength of the Pound. The problem is, though, what if this becomes a trend in industry, and not just related to car manufacturing. I don't really think we should be in a situation where we could potentially be at a disadvantage where jobs and investment are concerned, if we don't have to.

That is a good point, but it only applies if a trend emerges.
London has reputedly overtaken New York to become once again the financial capital of the world; if this is the case, then I don't imagine that many service corporations will follow Honda's example.

If I were in charge of the UK I'd politely remind Honda Motorcars that Japan is the only nation to ever be hit by a nuclear weapon... twice.

I would never say it outright mind you, but if they are any kind of smart they might get my meaning and shut up.

Used to live near there - you're making the right choice. If there ever was a town more the arsehole of anywhere else, I've thankfully yet to visit it.
Lowestoft.

That is a good point, but it only applies if a trend emerges.
London has reputedly overtaken New York to become once again the financial capital of the world; if this is the case, then I don't imagine that many service corporations will follow Honda's example.
We'll have to see how that goes, and if it becomes a trend, depending on the value of the pound. I don't see the Euro harming that, in any case.

London has reputedly overtaken New York to become once again the financial capital of the world.

yeah alright then (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meW0i8b58rA):p *imagines the mass shootings on the tube as everyone tries to get the train*

I can't see that being legal.
Nothing a bit of New Labour "Armchair Legislation" wouldn't fix.

Last time I checked, the British Pound was the price of two US Dollars.

I'm all for the EU. But my I get more out of my money with the pound. Quite literally.

Last time I checked, the British Pound was the price of two US Dollars.

I'm all for the EU. But my I get more out of my money with the pound. Quite literally.

You'd also have more Euroes to get stuff out of.

Sound's like it's time for Britain's parliament to dust off the old Nationalization Board.

What Honda is doing is perfectly within their rights. If currency exchange costs are a big factor in getting the cars they make in Swindon to the mainland, then by all means they should leave if that turns out to be a superior option.

Gordon Brown isn't a big fan of the euro. I think today is certainly a better time to join than it was in the beginning, but it's not gonna happen for a while (though I think it will eventually).

That some people respond with "nationalisation" seems a tad hysterical though to say the least. Because Honda sure as hell didn't say "Or else", or threaten anything. They just say that given the extra costs associated with the exchange rates, they won't build their next plant in the UK. I think the OP was a bit unfair in portraying what the guy said:
"The exchange rate of the pound against the euro is very difficult to forecast. Unless the UK joins the eurozone, we can't add to plant in Swindon. We're not planning to withdraw from the UK because it is a major market, and Swindon supplies it," he said, speaking at his luxurious penthouse office overlooking Tokyo.

[...]

"We're not doing any lobbying on this but every time we meet officials they say there is no interest in joining for the meantime. We have to take this at face value and reconsider our strategy."

And that's reason to nationalise their stuff? I don't think so.

England's basically Europe anyway. I say it's time to assimilate.

Since when is the contint in which a country is located in determined by it's currency?

Oh deary me; membership of the European Union royally buggers Britain up. Again.

How unexpected.

Terribly unfashionable though it is, what with its being both responsible and principled, withdrawal from the European Union truly is the best route for a genuinely independant Britain.

Oh deary me; membership of the European Union royally buggers Britain up. Again.

How unexpected.

Terribly unfashionable though it is, what with its being both responsible and principled, withdrawal from the European Union truly is the best route for a genuinely independant Britain.

Like that's even possible now. ;)

I've always said Disney should just buy England. Now might be a good time, before it becomes even more a part of Europe. :D

Like that's even possible now. ;)

I've always said Disney should just buy England. Now might be a good time, before it becomes even more a part of Europe. :D

Much like immigration; anybody with sufficient backbone (admittedly a quotient that rules out Cameron automatically) could do whatever they pleased. In any case, Sarkozy would probably support us.

I think they mean 'community' wise.

As in 'Not being a great part of the community of European nations' would be my guess.

Ironic that an Asian company is giving ultimatums about the UK joining the EU fully.

I think I've worked it out.

The Honda F1 team is based in England. Brackley, I think.

They're doing very badly this year; being shown up not only by Toyota (their main rival), but BMW, Mercedes, and Renault. Four car manufacturers they would hope to compete with, at varying levels, in the market. They're also getting beaten by a team running Honda's 2006 F1 car.

I imagine they don't want to spend any more than the several hundred million dollars the probably spend already to try and improve.

And it would be very expensive to move the team.

So get the country the team's in to change to a more favourable currency.




Or something.

Oh I hope the Brits don't go for this. The pound is and always has been king of currencies. Honda's just being a whiny little bitch.

If anything, the rest of Europe should convert to the pound.

Airstrip 1 is part of Oceania not Eurasia.

also I'd like to say that from now on I will be boycotting Honda for two reasons and the pledge to never visit Swindon is still in place

Seriously, who would want to visit Swindon?

.... Is Swindon in central england?

And that's reason to nationalise their stuff? I don't think so.

Everything is a reason to nationalise something!

Yes, I do like nationalisation.

This is why I scoff at people who fully embrace free trade and laissez faire capitalism. Sure, you knock a couple of points off of your unemployment rate... in return you get ultimatums from foreign corporations. Oh joy...

Airstrip 1 is part of Oceania not Eurasia.

....we have always been at war with Eastasia.....

Oh deary me; membership of the European Union royally buggers Britain up. Again.

How exactly is being a member of the E.U stuffing up your country in this case?

Terribly unfashionable though it is, what with its being both responsible and principled, withdrawal from the European Union truly is the best route for a genuinely independant Britain.

Not from a military standpoint. What about what is best for the people that make up that country?

This is why I scoff at people who fully embrace free trade and laissez faire capitalism. Sure, you knock a couple of points off of your unemployment rate... in return you get ultimatums from foreign corporations. Oh joy...
Allowing companies to decide whether or not to build a factory isn't precisely "full" embrace of laissez faire capitalism.

I would like to ask everyone to actually read the article. The "ultimatum" was a talk by the boss who said that it is an expensive business to deal with the exchange rate changes between the euro and the pound, and that it therefore won't make much sense to expand the Swindon plant if the cars there are going to be sold in the eurozone. It makes more sense for those cars to be built within the eurozone because then you have all your numbers straight and there's less risk.

By the same token, by the way, it would make no sense for Swindon to be closed completely only to then have to deal with the same problem trying to sell cars made in the eurozone in Britain.

Surely there is still one or two reputable news outlets in the UK who wouldn't try to distort this story to score some cheap anti-EU points, aren't there?

Allowing companies to decide whether or not to build a factory isn't precisely "full" embrace of laissez faire capitalism.

I would like to ask everyone to actually read the article. The "ultimatum" was a talk by the boss who said that it is an expensive business to deal with the exchange rate changes between the euro and the pound, and that it therefore won't make much sense to expand the Swindon plant if the cars there are going to be sold in the eurozone. It makes more sense for those cars to be built within the eurozone because then you have all your numbers straight and there's less risk.

By the same token, by the way, it would make no sense for Swindon to be closed completely only to then have to deal with the same problem trying to sell cars made in the eurozone in Britain.

Surely there is still one or two reputable news outlets in the UK who wouldn't try to distort this story to score some cheap anti-EU points, aren't there?

My point was more along the lines of rejecting the notion that we should rely on foreign investment to create employment. It can't help but create conditions where foreign investors call the shots. But you're right, by no means has the UK adopted full laissez faire capitalism.

(As for the news source, couldn't tell you, I'm a Canuck, not a Brit. And my bad for not reading the arcticle... knee-jerk reactions and all that.)

Airstrip 1 is part of Oceania not Eurasia. (Yes I do know that is 1984)

The actual (near) oceania is only PNG, Australia and NZwith the microstates near them.

Far oceania only ecompasses a limited amount of south east asia as well as samao and hawaii (sometimes).

Since when do corporations get to threaten nations? Someone needs to take Honda down a notch.

I'd say Britain should find some dirt on Honda and fine them their plant.

Used to live near there - you're making the right choice. If there ever was a town more the arsehole of anywhere else, I've thankfully yet to visit it.

Ahem.

Since when do corporations get to threaten nations? Someone needs to take Honda down a notch.

I'd say Britain should find some dirt on Honda and fine them their plant.

Why would that be a threat? They admitted they didn't do their homework on Britain's currency, and will therefore need to change their plans regarding the plant.
Where's the problem???

Why would that be a threat? They admitted they didn't do their homework on Britain's currency, and will therefore need to change their plans regarding the plant.
Where's the problem???

Well, they're telling the government to change to another currency, or they'll go make cars somewhere else.

I can see how that'd appear to be a threat, although, to be honest, unless Honda start making tanks, I can hardly see it affecting us.

Well, they're telling the government to change to another currency, or they'll go make cars somewhere else.

I can see how that'd appear to be a threat, although, to be honest, unless Honda start making tanks, I can hardly see it affecting us.

Britain didn't want to the common currency. And this case now is just the logical consequence in my eyes. And I'm not even an economist...

See, if I was Prime Minister, I would beat up their asses, take over Honda, and rule the automotive world. But I can only do that here. *sighs* damned capitalism.

Didn’t they try out this one?
British Leyland doesn’t ring a bell? Oops, that specific ass is beat up by the Chinese…

Personally, I'm in favour of our joining the Euro; my only objection is that it looks really dull, and I prefer the feel of British notes.

Britain didn't want to the common currency. And this case now is just the logical consequence in my eyes. And I'm not even an economist...

Well, this is it. Do we want to go through the rigours of changing currency, or lose one car firm from building here?

Proud as my town is of having Honda about, they'd turn on them for being so petty pretty damned fast. Especially as it'd be a few hundred jobs down the pan as a result.

Seriously, who would want to visit Swindon?

.... Is Swindon in central england?
It's half-way between Bristol and London by train, the only reason why GWR decided to build the train yards there in the first place. It is truly the arsehole of England.

But I think it's more in the West Country than anywhere else, sadly... :(

Well, this is it. Do we want to go through the rigours of changing currency, or lose one car firm from building here?

Proud as my town is of having Honda about, they'd turn on them for being so petty pretty damned fast. Especially as it'd be a few hundred jobs down the pan as a result.

*shrugs* That's entirely up to you, of course. But my guess is that Honda won't stay the only one retreating much of its manufacturing from Britain. If you're producing for a big market that has one currency, it's not very clever economically to do so in a country that uses another currency, unless that currency will remain predictably weak.

Oi! What's with all the Swindon-bashing!

We've been there :p

I say it in jest.

Anyways, this whole Honda thing will probably give the Government the excuse to move into the Eurozone. New "Labour" have a nice history of acting against public opinion, or as if the fact that they've been elected gives them free rein to do whatever they damned well please.

Britain's a parliamentary dictatorship.

As inhabitant of the Eurozone I can tell you that in theory the Euro is nice. It is easier to compare prices, you don’t have to change currencies anymore, etc…

The reality is…. I really feel that I can spend less, far less, than before.

My salary is about the same (regardless the spill index adjustments) but the price about anything is raised.

Maybe computers, electronics and other stuff are lowered in price, but not the price of food, clothing and housing.

And for most people, these are their most important expensive issues.

Just a few years ago, I paid about 2 euro for a package of Belgian Fries with mayonaise and a Coke. Current times, I'll have to pay 6 Euros...

Oh deary me; membership of the European Union royally buggers Britain up. Again.

How unexpected.

Terribly unfashionable though it is, what with its being both responsible and principled, withdrawal from the European Union truly is the best route for a genuinely independant Britain.

oh please... more daily mail vitriol :rolleyes:

an "indipendent" britain is the surest path to failure for this country.

Just a few years ago, I paid about 2 euro for a package of Belgian Fries with mayonaise and a Coke. Current times, I'll have to pay 6 Euros...
Erk, that is a pretty steep price rise.

I don't believe Britain'll be joining the Euro anytime soon. Brown is a bit of a Eurosceptic, and as Chancellor, if he wanted to join the Euro he would have done back in (insert date when most nations got it here) anyway.

Honda trying to push their weight is only because their F1 car is doing awfully and they want to take some heat off that.

As inhabitant of the Eurozone I can tell you that in theory the Euro is nice. It is easier to compare prices, you don’t have to change currencies anymore, etc…

The reality is…. I really feel that I can spend less, far less, than before.

My salary is about the same (regardless the spill index adjustments) but the price about anything is raised.

Maybe computers, electronics and other stuff are lowered in price, but not the price of food, clothing and housing.

And for most people, these are their most important expensive issues.

Just a few years ago, I paid about 2 euro for a package of Belgian Fries with mayonaise and a Coke. Current times, I'll have to pay 6 Euros...

6 Euros???? :eek:
Where the hell do you live? You wouldn't pay more than maybe 3.50 or 4 Euros for that even in Dublin. I didn't think Europe got much more expensive than Dublin...

6 Euros???? :eek:
Where the hell do you live? You wouldn't pay more than maybe 3.50 or 4 Euros for that even in Dublin. I didn't think Europe got much more expensive than Dublin...

Cabra's right. Dublin is one of the top 3 (I think) most expensive cities in Europe.

Methinks you exaggerate a bit, even taking out inflation, company price rises etc etc. At the end of the day, it's a capitalist continent: no one is forcing you to buy it at that price - you can shop around.

Honda trying to push their weight is only because their F1 car is doing awfully and they want to take some heat off that.
Can everyone please stop dissing Honda? I'm about to buy one of their cars, so I'm a fan now on principle!

Ahem.

It's your own fault for living there.

oh please... more daily mail vitriol :rolleyes:

an "indipendent" britain is the surest path to failure for this country.

Why?

Why?
Do we have to start this crap again?

Britain is rapidly shrinking, relatively speaking. Within the next 50 years Britain will fall to being the 7th largest economy, with 1/9 of the size of China's, about 1/8 the US' and 1/6 of that of India. There is no way around this being reflected in terms of influence and military strength.

This is based on current trends, which Britain could not maintain without the free trade agreement with the EU, by the way.

Now, this doesn't necessarily mean anything bad for the people in Britain (their GDP per capita would be quite handy nonetheless), but I believe you're the collectivist kind who cares about "the nation" and all that silly stuff.

In short, in a world with the US and developed versions of the US and China in it, the EU is the only way for any European country to still matter.

Well you could do the Euro thing, or you could take Honda's factory over... or you could drag your island closer to the USA and you can become the 51st, 52nd, 53rd and 54th state.

Well you could do the Euro thing, or you could take Honda's factory over... or you could drag your island closer to the USA and you can become the 51st, 52nd, 53rd and 54th state.


Maybe Honda should buy GB and create an European Japan...

It will start by introducing a new currency: the yen.

It is not that bad, by instance the quality of the food will rise.

And in the weekend we'll watch Toyota Liverpool vs. Sony United.

Well you could do the Euro thing, or you could take Honda's factory over... or you could drag your island closer to the USA and you can become the 51st, 52nd, 53rd and 54th state.

Maybe Honda should buy GB and create an European Japan...

It will start by introducing a new currency: the yen.

It is not that bad, by instance the quality of the food will rise.

And in the weekend we'll watch Toyota Liverpool vs. Sony United.

what do they know
More than you do ,obviously!:D The EU is a corrupt undemocratic mess. how many people who are living in europe realise just how undemocratic? In most democratic countrys, the citizens elect a government who then create policy
which is enacted by the civil service. If the performance of the government and its policys are bad, the people can vote them out. The EU is different. Policy is created by thr civil service, the european commission. The european parliament can then vote on these policys, but can only reject them three times. Then the unelected European commission can just push them through.
That aint democracy. Thats how the North sea has become a maritime desert due to the commen fishing policy. That on its own should damn the EU,But the left wingers see it as a start at some socialist world government, and the coservatives see it as the common market that Ted Heath had us join , the stupid, stupid Bastard!

Well you could do the Euro thing, or you could take Honda's factory over... or you could drag your island closer to the USA and you can become the 51st, 52nd, 53rd and 54th state.
Fuck right off Yank!!!:upyours:

Fuck right off Yank!!!:upyours:

Maybe Honda should buy UK.

The quality of food will improve and in the weekend we can watch Suzuki Liverpool vs. Toyota Chelsea.

Then the unelected European commission can just push them through.
How many dictatorships in the EU? None?

Well, looks like voters do decide about the commission then, doesn't it. And wait, doesn't the elected parliament also have the power to get rid of the entire commission through a vote of no confidence?

The commission is an executive organ of the EU, just like the police is an executive organ of a country. We don't vote for our top policemen, but our elected officials do.

But whatever floats your boat. :rolleyes:

oh please... more daily mail vitriol :rolleyes:

an "indipendent" britain is the surest path to failure for this country.
Oh yeah, 'cos we are doing sooo badly!! Fourth biggest economy in the fuckin world!! Meanwhile everybody in the "eurozone" is bitterly regreting joining! Much higher unemployment, Why do you think the French elected a right winger? or are you just going to ignore all the corruption, food mountains, undemocratic government etc that the EU has? Stop dreaming of the "ideal" and look at the reality!

the left wingers see it as a start at some socialist world government
You say it like it's a bad thing :p

You're right, though. The EU is ridiculously undemocratic, but it'll be difficult to change the current system, as the European Commision is hardly going to legislate itself out of existance so that nations can actually decide for themselves on this matter.

Also, as soon as this happens, you'd get the UKIP-alikes coming out of the woodwork to trump about how it's one more step along the road to the European super-state, whilst whinging about how Brussels has too much control over us to begin with.

How many dictatorships in the EU? None?

Well, looks like voters do decide about the commission then, doesn't it. And wait, doesn't the elected parliament also have the power to get rid of the entire commission through a vote of no confidence?

The commission is an executive organ of the EU, just like the police is an executive organ of a country. We don't vote for our top policemen, but our elected officials do.

But whatever floats your boat. :rolleyes:
So why have they not done it? Food mountains while the third world starves?????!!!! The entire fish stocks of the North Sea gone????!!! Untold corruption?????!!! Oh, but we do get a silly flag !!:mad:
Have you seen the"modern Parents" in Viz? Bet thats YOU!!!

So why have they not done it? Food mountains while the third world starves?????!!!! The entire fish stocks of the North Sea gone????!!! Untold corruption?????!!! Oh, but we do get a silly flag !!:mad:
I can tell you why. It's not because it's undemocratic; it's because when they do have the elections, no one bothers to show up.

You know, multiple question marks and exclamation marks don't really add to an argument.

So why have they not done it? Food mountains while the third world starves?????!!!! The entire fish stocks of the North Sea gone????!!! Untold corruption?????!!! Oh, but we do get a silly flag !!:mad:
Have you seen the"modern Parents" in Viz? Bet thats YOU!!!

Actually, the food mountains are long gone these days... http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,484828,00.html

So there's no corruption in UK? :)

No food hills as well? :))

And they do not fish in the North Sea? :)))

The EC is not perfect, absolutely not, but we are not in an internal war for 60 years now. Whatever it is costing it's worth the price, no?

Oh btw, maybe Honda should buy UK.

It's not that bad:

* They will introduce a new currency: The Yen.
* The quality and taste of the food will improve (which is required)
* We will watch Toyota Chelsea vs. Honda Liverpool in the weekend

I can tell you why. It's not because it's undemocratic; it's because when they do have the elections, no one bothers to show up.
Oh great. That makes it all right then.

It sort of does, as it means it's our laziness which is buggering-up the system, rather than the system buggering-up us.

You know, multiple question marks and exclamation marks don't really add to an argument.
So you have disproved my argument 'cos I used too many exclamation marks?

Oh great. That makes it all right then.

You only offer democracy. As long as voting is not compulsory...

So you have disproved my argument 'cos I used too many exclamation marks?
Nope, I just said that it doesn't add to an argument.

Meanwhile everybody in the "eurozone" is bitterly regreting joining!

Um. *puts hand up*

No we don't.

You only offer democracy. As long as voting is not compulsory...
You offer only corruption, bad government by failed politicians. But don't worry! If you wish very very hard, it will all turn out right.

Um. *puts hand up*

No we don't.

*puts hand up, too*

Personally, the life I lead now would not have been possible without the EU. It allowed me to find a good job, live where I always wanted, and just lead a happy and contend life.

Um. *puts hand up*

No we don't.
You should do. Fourth biggest economy in the world without it!:D And what is important is that the people of Britain do'nt want to join. So screw you!

You should do. Fourth biggest economy in the world without it!:D

*sigh*

I type in English therefore I must be British? :rolleyes:

"Hello. Welcome to an International forum. We hope you enjoy your stay."

Oh yeah, 'cos we are doing sooo badly!! Fourth biggest economy in the fuckin world!! Meanwhile everybody in the "eurozone" is bitterly regreting joining! Much higher unemployment, Why do you think the French elected a right winger? or are you just going to ignore all the corruption, food mountains, undemocratic government etc that the EU has? Stop dreaming of the "ideal" and look at the reality!
fine. the reality of the situation is if the EU does not pull together, its constituent countries - including Britain - will start to suffer vast economic losses within the next 20 to 30 years as India and China, and possibly Russia, motor ahead with their newfound capitalistic vigour. a single small country, like britain, won't be able to compete on a world stage for much longer, neither economically nor politically (or militarily). a Federal EU is the only way to safeguard the wellbeing of our citizens in the long term future. currently having a large economy now (thanks to that nice Mr. Brown) doesn't mean squat in the future.

corruption, and other issues, can be dealt with. they do not undermine the ideal and notion of the EU.

at least you didn't start sprouting about "sovereignity" as i usually hear from euroskeptics...
Do we have to start this crap again?

Britain is rapidly shrinking, relatively speaking. Within the next 50 years Britain will fall to being the 7th largest economy, with 1/9 of the size of China's, about 1/8 the US' and 1/6 of that of India. There is no way around this being reflected in terms of influence and military strength.

This is based on current trends, which Britain could not maintain without the free trade agreement with the EU, by the way.

Now, this doesn't necessarily mean anything bad for the people in Britain (their GDP per capita would be quite handy nonetheless), but I believe you're the collectivist kind who cares about "the nation" and all that silly stuff.

In short, in a world with the US and developed versions of the US and China in it, the EU is the only way for any European country to still matter.

what he said.

You should do. Fourth biggest economy in the world without it!:D

Er, no. Not without it. As stats go, the UK is a massive receiver of EU funds as well.

Er, no. Not without it. As stats go, the UK is a massive receiver of EU funds as well.

QFT. much of the funds for the redevelopment of the Thames Gateway and the North have come from the EU. If the EU didn't exist then some of these areas would still be suffering economically with high unemployment rates. The Eu allows free movemnt of trade and more imporantly movement of labour so finding a job is much easier. You can keep saying 4th biggest economy all you want but that won't be the case for long. The UK's manufacturing industry has been going down quite quickly and since the UK built its wealth on manufacturing that's not a good thing. In a world where nations are grouping together for better economic gain a ntion going b itself would almost be suicidal. Some groups that have allowe growth:

NAFTA- This has helped Mexico more than the USA or Canada. 20 years ago Mexico was going into bankruptcy, The Debt Crisis and so on. Now it's the 13th largest economy in the world and still growing.

ASEAN - South East Asia now where Malaysia, Thailand and others have had incredible economic gains in the past 30 years. Their GDPs have shot up when 20 years ago much on their economies were still on primary industries. These nations also are giving competition.

Those are 2 other trading blocs that have allowed economic gains and if you think that pulling out of the EU is a good thing then you are sadly mistaken.

It's your own fault for living there.

I was born here...and it's really not that bad. Why do people always look at the bad points...we get too many like you. There's a reason the Railway works weren't built in Reading like IKB wanted...

Anyway, I now, having read the local paper, fail to see where there's a problem...we have what, a few-thousand strong workforce, and they're not planning to expand the plant. There's still going to be investment, mainly in labour, and we're the only place in Europe that makes the Civic, and they're going as far as Australia. They're building a plant in Turkey now, if I recall, and they want British Engineers over there. We're making 250,000 cars a year, Turkey will be making 50,000...

Where's this thread going?