NationStates Jolt Archive

With reference to solely discussion, not a religious debate, and more of just a reflection sociologically on Christianity. I am liberal myself, and do not claim a specific religion usually. At least I don't claim any "organized religion".

Protestantism was no doubt a major landmark for Christianity as far as a new Christianity beyond Roman Catholicism, then of course Puritanism and the "New World" of what happened after these Christian groups came to the Americas, and then the Dead Sea Scrolls could be called major landmarks off the top of my head, I know there are others but these are some of the biggest for secular and religious history I can think of.

I see Protestantism as changing quicker than Roman Catholicism, as far as Protestant Christian culture in Western society such as the United States specifically.

What does anyone see as the next BIG thing for Christianity? Fundamentalism could be said to be the predominant and only culture of what the Protestant Christians were (and for that matter Christianity) in varying degrees 30 years ago or less, but it seems to be in decline. I speak of Fundamentalism in the broader sense of strict values, strict moral code, Christian lifestyle by the book, etc.

I see a new Liberal Protestant Christian culture emerging, perhaps even joined with sort of mystical Charismatic movement.

This new Liberal Protestant Christian culture will probably be characterized by more acceptance of things such as open values, personal faith and independent study rather than organized disciplines, homosexuality, more on faith than sin, a lot less fire and brimstone preaching etc.

But what do you all think will be the next "big step"?

The next big step? I see the next big step as either some form of liberalization--adopting a more Unitarian stance--or, hopefully, the complete end of the religion along with every other religion in existance.

You are surely not suggesting that Christianity is evolving - the creationists won't like that.

Honestly? I see Christianity, in terms of it being an organised religion, continuing to become hard-line and radically sectarian.

You're right in pointing out that there is evidence of the emergence of a large movement of liberal Christians, but they are making one absolutely crucial mistake, in that they are trying to distance themselves from the more conservative and illiberal elements of the present day church. This separation will result in a schism that will almost certainly result in the liberal Christians branching out from the mainstream into counter-religiosity, leaving the Christian Religion as the playground for literal creationists, Theocrats and aggressive evangelists.

Honestly? I see Christianity, in terms of it being an organised religion, continuing to become hard-line and radically sectarian.

You're right in pointing out that there is evidence of the emergence of a large movement of liberal Christians, but they are making one absolutely crucial mistake, in that they are trying to distance themselves from the more conservative and illiberal elements of the present day church. This separation will result in a schism that will almost certainly result in the liberal Christians branching out from the mainstream into counter-religiosity, leaving the Christian Religion as the playground for literal creationists, Theocrats and aggressive evangelists.
Why would liberal Christians stop being Christian? There are actually a lot of us liberal Christians around, if the numbers mean anything, so I foresee more of a split along conservative/liberal lines, ala the current fight in the Episcopalian Church, but not that the liberal branch will suddenly go counter religion.

Nah, just look at the Quakers, the experts at liberal Chrisianity who had much of today's liberal values already in the 17th century. For example they got into a lot of trouble for treating all humans as if they had equal value in the age of nobles and slaves. They're not the "next big thing".

I think the charismatic ones are the most appealing to many. The crazier they sound/act when performing miracles the more interest they'll attract. It's quite an entertaining circus that can draw a lot of people. It might be possible to be both charismatic and liberal but at least the charismatic ones here are not. They've even been sued a couple times for being too colorful when preaching their conservative views on homosexuality.

Nah, just look at the Quakers, the experts at liberal Chrisianity who had much of today's liberal values already in the 17th century. For example they got into a lot of trouble for treating all humans as if they had equal value in the age of nobles and slaves. They're not the "next big thing".

I think the charismatic ones are the most appealing to many. The crazier they sound/act when performing miracles the more interest they'll attract. It's quite an entertaining circus that can draw a lot of people. It might be possible to be both charismatic and liberal but at least the charismatic ones here are not. They've even been sued a couple times for being too colorful when preaching their conservative views on homosexuality.

Well the Quakers or Society of Friends were a minority religious sect, with beliefs that vary enough from mainstream Protestant denominations they could be said to be a sect of Christianity rather than a Protestant denomination. I admire them greatly, but I mean current trends.

True charismatics are often conservative, agreed, but some have more of a "feel good" sense of Christianity that is not so harsh.

I predict that over time, there will be a return to orthodoxy amongst those who want to claim the title of Christian; liberal churches and Christian movements (I'm thinking things like the Catholic Worker Movement) tend to die out because they are simply speedbumps on the road to irreligion.

Of course, anyone who has studied the Church's history can see cycles, and any problems/divisions will simply repeat themselves as long as Christianity exists. As Ecclesiastes says "What is it that hath been? The same thing that shall be. What is it that hath been done? The same that shall be done. Nothing under the sun is new, neither is any man able to say: Behold this is new: for it hath already gone before in the ages that were before us." (Ecclesiastes 1: 9-10)

Acceptance of abortion.

hopefully, the complete end of the religion along with every other religion in existance.

WhatWhatWHAT?

*ponders*
*

...


*

*

...





YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With reference to solely discussion, not a religious debate, and more of just a reflection sociologically on Christianity. I am liberal myself, and do not claim a specific religion usually. At least I don't claim any "organized religion".

Protestantism was no doubt a major landmark for Christianity as far as a new Christianity beyond Roman Catholicism, then of course Puritanism and the "New World" of what happened after these Christian groups came to the Americas, and then the Dead Sea Scrolls could be called major landmarks off the top of my head, I know there are others but these are some of the biggest for secular and religious history I can think of.

I see Protestantism as changing quicker than Roman Catholicism, as far as Protestant Christian culture in Western society such as the United States specifically.

What does anyone see as the next BIG thing for Christianity? Fundamentalism could be said to be the predominant and only culture of what the Protestant Christians were (and for that matter Christianity) in varying degrees 30 years ago or less, but it seems to be in decline. I speak of Fundamentalism in the broader sense of strict values, strict moral code, Christian lifestyle by the book, etc.

I see a new Liberal Protestant Christian culture emerging, perhaps even joined with sort of mystical Charismatic movement.

This new Liberal Protestant Christian culture will probably be characterized by more acceptance of things such as open values, personal faith and independent study rather than organized disciplines, homosexuality, more on faith than sin, a lot less fire and brimstone preaching etc.

But what do you all think will be the next "big step"?

The next big step? When they see that they (along with Muslims) would be guilty of copyright (riped-off the Jews) infringment were Moses still alive.

open acknowledgment that almost nobody is a christian in any meaningful sense anymore and that nietzche's madman was right.

I would actually hope for a new socialist Christian tradition to emerge, I sure it already exists but it isn't very prevalent. Today in fundamentalist circles in particular in the US ultra right-wing issues have totally taken over any agenda from the gospels. Instead these days abortion and gay marriage are attacked, which is never mentioned in the gospel, along with secularism and tolerance that are also under attack. The real message of the gospel, which is a profoundly a message of social justice, universality and equality, has been drown out in a overwhelmingly massive tide of hateful and doomsday Christianity which has developed a mob mentality that preaches exclusivity to the 'proper' Christian groups and sees everyone else as the enemy.

In short I would like to see a gospel Christianity that actually stays true to what Jesus said, I know it sounds pretty radical but the hijacking of Christianity for an overtly reactionary and conservative agenda makes me sick.

More religious fundamental terrorism, as much Christian as any other.

EDIT: Oh...better said by Myu in the Middle

The next step in Christianity is that the Fundies will seize total control of this nation, a large-scale war between them and the Islamists will break out, and end up with the total annihilation of all life on earth. I see this as inescapable, because it's to late to stop them, and no, I'm not joking.

Actually, if you are looking at current trends, you'll note that the liberal branch of Christianity does not garner much support, and growth is slow or declining in most instances. The more conservative, more fundamentilist / evanjelical / charismatic churches, however, are continuing to show strong growth. In a society that is becoming increasingly nihilistic, there are certain very strong motivational factors that would support the continued growth of conservative churches.

That said, I don't think that all religion will be wiped out (and indeed it would be counterproductive to human development), and I don't see some great religious war between the fundamentalists and the islamists (if that is even a real word).

Actually, if you are looking at current trends, you'll note that the liberal branch of Christianity does not garner much support, and growth is slow or declining in most instances. The more conservative, more fundamentilist / evanjelical / charismatic churches, however, are continuing to show strong growth. In a society that is becoming increasingly nihilistic, there are certain very strong motivational factors that would support the continued growth of conservative churches.

That said, I don't think that all religion will be wiped out (and indeed it would be counterproductive to human development), and I don't see some great religious war between the fundamentalists and the islamists (if that is even a real word).

Islamists is a real word. It's used to describe Islamic Fundamentalist groups like al-Qaeda, that want to re-establish the Caliphate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism

With reference to solely discussion, not a religious debate, and more of just a reflection sociologically on Christianity. I am liberal myself, and do not claim a specific religion usually. At least I don't claim any "organized religion".

Protestantism was no doubt a major landmark for Christianity as far as a new Christianity beyond Roman Catholicism, then of course Puritanism and the "New World" of what happened after these Christian groups came to the Americas, and then the Dead Sea Scrolls could be called major landmarks off the top of my head, I know there are others but these are some of the biggest for secular and religious history I can think of.

I see Protestantism as changing quicker than Roman Catholicism, as far as Protestant Christian culture in Western society such as the United States specifically.

What does anyone see as the next BIG thing for Christianity? Fundamentalism could be said to be the predominant and only culture of what the Protestant Christians were (and for that matter Christianity) in varying degrees 30 years ago or less, but it seems to be in decline. I speak of Fundamentalism in the broader sense of strict values, strict moral code, Christian lifestyle by the book, etc.

I see a new Liberal Protestant Christian culture emerging, perhaps even joined with sort of mystical Charismatic movement.

This new Liberal Protestant Christian culture will probably be characterized by more acceptance of things such as open values, personal faith and independent study rather than organized disciplines, homosexuality, more on faith than sin, a lot less fire and brimstone preaching etc.

But what do you all think will be the next "big step"?

Most likely, the next 'big step' will be a reversion, of sorts. A lot of modern churches are gaining support by saying other groups aren't 'christian' because they don't preach the same hellfire and damnation rhetoric the preacher remembers... I envision a continuation of this polarisation... with 'Christianity' becoming more and more fundamentalist and extreme.

Why would liberal Christians stop being Christian? There are actually a lot of us liberal Christians around, if the numbers mean anything, so I foresee more of a split along conservative/liberal lines, ala the current fight in the Episcopalian Church, but not that the liberal branch will suddenly go counter religion.
I think I'm going to borrow Jocabia's phrase for this, if he doesn't mind. It has become a view within Christianity that the essence of Jesus's message is one of Discernment; that is, that it is not an attempt to codify right action into a set of rigid institutional rules - what's more, that the attempt to do so is a fundamental mistake - but rather that it is a motivation to act according to circumstance and need using Christian scripture as a guideline in deciding the most empathetic course of action.

It seems clear to me that should this gain ground, as it would appear to be doing in many back-stage movements, the notion of a unified set of Christian teachings will fade from liberal doctrine as individuals increasingly begin to adopt applications and interpretations independently to institutional declarations of belief and morality. This, almost by definition, is Heresy, and Christianity as a Religion will not tolerate it. Either it will simmer down and re-integrate or it will split from Religion entirely, and as long as people wish to adhere to principle above and beyond the institution, I reckon the latter is the more likely of the two.

With reference to solely discussion, not a religious debate, and more of just a reflection sociologically on Christianity. I am liberal myself, and do not claim a specific religion usually. At least I don't claim any "organized religion".

Protestantism was no doubt a major landmark for Christianity as far as a new Christianity beyond Roman Catholicism, then of course Puritanism and the "New World" of what happened after these Christian groups came to the Americas, and then the Dead Sea Scrolls could be called major landmarks off the top of my head, I know there are others but these are some of the biggest for secular and religious history I can think of.

I see Protestantism as changing quicker than Roman Catholicism, as far as Protestant Christian culture in Western society such as the United States specifically.

What does anyone see as the next BIG thing for Christianity? Fundamentalism could be said to be the predominant and only culture of what the Protestant Christians were (and for that matter Christianity) in varying degrees 30 years ago or less, but it seems to be in decline. I speak of Fundamentalism in the broader sense of strict values, strict moral code, Christian lifestyle by the book, etc.

I see a new Liberal Protestant Christian culture emerging, perhaps even joined with sort of mystical Charismatic movement.

This new Liberal Protestant Christian culture will probably be characterized by more acceptance of things such as open values, personal faith and independent study rather than organized disciplines, homosexuality, more on faith than sin, a lot less fire and brimstone preaching etc.

But what do you all think will be the next "big step"?

I think you are right, the Christian church will need to become a tad more liberal in order to survive, yet here is it's built in problem.

How can it? It is built upon the words of the Bible, so either these words change(again) or it forgets about the Bible.

Take either option though and it becomes apparent that the Christian church has been built upon man, and mankinds words, wants,and hatreds, than upon the word of God.

I think I'm going to borrow Jocabia's phrase for this, if he doesn't mind. It has become a view within Christianity that the essence of Jesus's message is one of Discernment; that is, that it is not an attempt to codify right action into a set of rigid institutional rules - what's more, that the attempt to do so is a fundamental mistake - but rather that it is a motivation to act according to circumstance and need using Christian scripture as a guideline in deciding the most empathetic course of action.

It seems clear to me that should this gain ground, as it would appear to be doing in many back-stage movements, the notion of a unified set of Christian teachings will fade from liberal doctrine as individuals increasingly begin to adopt applications and interpretations independently to institutional declarations of belief and morality. This, almost by definition, is Heresy, and Christianity as a Religion will not tolerate it. Either it will simmer down and re-integrate or it will split from Religion entirely, and as long as people wish to adhere to principle above and beyond the institution, I reckon the latter is the more likely of the two.
The problem is that you're treating Christianity as one big, monolithic, movement controlled by a central figure. That hasn't been the case since the time of Jesus (If Him and His movement could be called a religion). Historically, Christianity has been more of an on going argument, one causing multiple schisms as fundamental ideas have been challenged and those who either don't like the new ones or the old ones take a hike and go play somewhere else. It doesn't mean that they stop being Christian.

Most likely, the next 'big step' will be a reversion, of sorts. A lot of modern churches are gaining support by saying other groups aren't 'christian' because they don't preach the same hellfire and damnation rhetoric the preacher remembers... I envision a continuation of this polarisation... with 'Christianity' becoming more and more fundamentalist and extreme.
The Mega-Churches perhaps, but not all of them (and even then, mainly in the more conservative areas [Big surprise there]). Churches in the more liberal areas are going, well, liberal. I don't see them all dying any time soon.

The Mega-Churches perhaps, but not all of them (and even then, mainly in the more conservative areas [Big surprise there]). Churches in the more liberal areas are going, well, liberal. I don't see them all dying any time soon.

Well, no - obviously. But if we are looking at the next 'generation' of the evolution... well, Catholics didn't go anywhere while 'christianity' evolved this new movement... and modern Christianity isn't going to go away as this current trend (in some places) towards a 'hardcore' movement grows.

It doesn't make any sense to me... the Bible tells Christians to be separate. It expressly makes a point of telling them not to fuck with other people... but apparently, these new politicised extremists don't care about that.

The Witnesses have it right. If you are in the church, you don't vote in 'temporal' politics.

Well, no - obviously. But if we are looking at the next 'generation' of the evolution... well, Catholics didn't go anywhere while 'christianity' evolved this new movement... and modern Christianity isn't going to go away as this current trend (in some places) towards a 'hardcore' movement grows.

It doesn't make any sense to me... the Bible tells Christians to be separate. It expressly makes a point of telling them not to fuck with other people... but apparently, these new politicised extremists don't care about that.

The Witnesses have it right. If you are in the church, you don't vote in 'temporal' politics.
Don't look at me, I don't mix my politics and my religion, but there are always dumb people who like power and enough dumber people who can be counted to give it to them and attempt to make everyone else follow them just so they don't feel lonely.

Stupidity loves company after all.

There are two possible ways: one "liberal" - that teaches coexistence with those who think otherwise, that worships love and cooperation; the other extremist, one of hatred against those who think otherwise. If I may be a bit prophetic: both sides will develop, but the liberal one prevail eventually. I hope.

Catholicism today is a highly organized community - a kingdom without land. But is this true to the original preachings of the Bible? Less politics and focus on the people, boys. It's love, belief and general lifestyle that counts, not the number of followers.

nudism, or possibly compulsory sandal wearing.

Don't look at me, I don't mix my politics and my religion, but there are always dumb people who like power and enough dumber people who can be counted to give it to them and attempt to make everyone else follow them just so they don't feel lonely.

Stupidity loves company after all.

I wasn't looking at you. :) I was merely suggesting that the 'rulebook' for Christians is quite clear on keeping politics out of religion and vice versa. 'Liberal' Christians seem able to enjoy that divide without too much conflict, but there is an increasing tendency in some quarters to chose not to keep what is rendered unto Caesar and rendered unto God in different pockets.

That's a big factor in why I think that's the 'next big thing'... the increasing politicisation, the increasing extremism. It's a path that has ended before in rulership determined by Divine Right. Oh wait... I think we've seen a claim of that already...

That's a big factor in why I think that's the 'next big thing'... the increasing politicisation, the increasing extremism. It's a path that has ended before in rulership determined by Divine Right. Oh wait... I think we've seen a claim of that already...
That's where I am not sure of. The Church in America swings, historically (or rather Americans swing wildly between overly concerned with religion and not), whereas world wide... Hmm... that's a much more interesting question as traditional bastions of the Church are becoming more liberal (Central and South America), but Africa is remaining conservative.

That's where I am not sure of. The Church in America swings, historically (or rather Americans swing wildly between overly concerned with religion and not), whereas world wide... Hmm... that's a much more interesting question as traditional bastions of the Church are becoming more liberal (Central and South America), but Africa is remaining conservative.

I see that as an extension of the same thing.

If you look at Christianity in Central and South America, you see syncretism. Christianity is being moderated by external influences... in effect, it has having any lack of 'reason' accounted for.

On the other hand, Christianity in Africa, for example, is moving in the opposite direction... absolving itself of the outside influences, moving towards a 'purer' version of Christianity... which, unfortunately, is the more fundamental and extreme version peddled by a lot of western Christian input.

I'd like to hope that protestant Christianity will liberalize and change its existing focus.

I had the strongest faith when the church I attended focused on the love of Christ, and the inclusiveness of that love, rather than telling us the world is going to hell because of gays or something like that.

I see that as an extension of the same thing.

If you look at Christianity in Central and South America, you see syncretism. Christianity is being moderated by external influences... in effect, it has having any lack of 'reason' accounted for.

On the other hand, Christianity in Africa, for example, is moving in the opposite direction... absolving itself of the outside influences, moving towards a 'purer' version of Christianity... which, unfortunately, is the more fundamental and extreme version peddled by a lot of western Christian input.
Ah, but see that's the thing. I see it as a maintaining of the status quo (AKA, one big argument) without an overriding movement for the Church as a whole. Some areas will become more conservative in response to local pressures, some will become more liberal, and both will argue with each other endlessly.

Don't look at me

o_O

*Anata o miru*

o_o... O_O... o_O...

Now, in a more serious tone (And yes, I know you're not a fundie that mixes church and state).

The Catholic Church sure showed a willingness to become more conservative (Ratzlinger, HHHDS) and to, yes, try to invade state issues. So did the Protestant one... Let's hope there's a backlash soon...

A move away from traditional areas of operation - such as extortion, gambling, prostitution, and drugs - towards more 'legitimate' business interests such as waste disposal and construction.

A move away from traditional areas of operation - such as extortion, gambling prostitution, and drugs - towards more legitimate business interests such waste disposal and construction.

BWahahahahaha!


Damn, coffe all over me monitor!:D

I do believe that the only next big step that the more conservative Churches of Christianity are willing to make would be the end of time, and a transition into the Judgement Days...We've only been talking about it since the founding of the religion :(

Other than that, possibly more liberal views, wider acceptance of Homosexuals, etc. In smaller steps of course...which in that case wouldn't be a big step at all.
or
Increased tensions between Churches like the Catholic church, and the Protestant churches (plus tensions between those churches like the methodists, baptists, episcopalians). And a possible stronger resentment against other Christian based sects like the LDS Church, Jehovah's Witness...just a guess...also this wouldnt be a big step at all being that these churches already are moving that way

I hope the Next Big Thing in Christianity begins when someone shoots Fred Phelps and his inbred family of Christo-retards.:upyours:

Sorry, but that's the way I feel about ALL of Christanity.
It's a sham, it makes you afraid of perfectly normal aspects of being human,
and it offers a fake solution to a non-existent problem.

I found out the church I'd been going to was a conspiracy-theory-mongering cult. Five years of my life I lost there.:headbang:

I don't hate people involved, except for things like Phelps.
And Falwell.
And Robertson.

I hate the thing itself.:mad:

One interesting thing to note is that while the highly conservative churches are growing, the number of people self identified as "spiritual, but not religious" is growing as well. The extremist elements of Christianity are actually alienating people away from the mainstream sects. I'm sure a lot of them do join more liberal churches, but most seem to just amble on their own way... which isn't a bad thing. Sooner or later these people have to organize into SOMETHING.

One interesting thing to note is that while the highly conservative churches are growing, the number of people self identified as "spiritual, but not religious" is growing as well. The extremist elements of Christianity are actually alienating people away from the mainstream sects. I'm sure a lot of them do join more liberal churches, but most seem to just amble on their own way... which isn't a bad thing. Sooner or later these people have to organize into SOMETHING.

Loose organization at best. I can tell that because "spiritual but not religious" usually means "occultist", and we don't have anything remotely resembling a chain of command. Or an unified belief system for that matter. Wiccans, Chaotes, Druids, Numerologists, the crazy lady with the cats that reads horoscope and practices tarot...

I think the next big move, and granted this is going to be over the next 300 years, will be the gradual acception, but not cannonization of the Nag hammedi documents, namely the Gospel of Thomas, and the gradual acceptance of the dead sea scrolls.

Already in theology classes, at least at the college that I used to attend, many of the theology professors are advocating the Gospel of Thomas being added to the bible. Others argued that it should be accepted.

Besides this, I do not see any other changes.

Divorcing the economic right and a general push towards Christian socialism.

Divorcing the economic right and a general push towards Christian socialism.

I would love this to be true.

I can't see it, though. Selling God is (and always has been) a lucrative trade.

You are surely not suggesting that Christianity is evolving - the creationists won't like that.

No they won't...:p

Coincidentally...Family Guy explains the universe (http://youtube.com/watch?v=aj1KGZSFmfs&mode=related&search=)

Well... I see a move back to Roman Catholocism and Eastern Orthodoxy. Those two Christian denominations (and megachurches) are the fastest-growing Christian denominations. Also, the Christianity will remain conservative... but will drift away from neoconservatism. That is to say, from big business party politics. There will more of a leaning towards saving the environment (environmentalism is quickly, I fully support this, expanding into a wide-rangign moral issue. It's becoming a sermon topic.) and social justice.

And, frankly, I don't see that as liberalization, due to the reasoning behind those actions.

So yes, I see the Church remaining staunchly conservative, yet adopting many issues which have traditionally been liberal (oh the irony of that phrase) and stealing them away.

And, thankfully, the denominations of the Great Awakening and colonial eras are FINALLY starting to die as they go stale.

For the record, I'm a Christian, and a conservative. Then again, I'm also libertarian. Make of it what you will.

Well... I see a move back to Roman Catholocism and Eastern Orthodoxy. Those two Christian denominations (and megachurches) are the fastest-growing Christian denominations.

I don't think those are the two largest growing denominations, especially after the massive Priest Pedophilia scandal in Roman Catholicism, which was unfortunate and should not reflect on the entire Church but it shows a lot of corruption and covering up of the pedophilia which was like endorsement.

No they won't...:p

Coincidentally...Family Guy explains the universe (http://youtube.com/watch?v=aj1KGZSFmfs&mode=related&search=)

Video been removed.

I think we'll probably see increase in the number of religious groups that are either liberal and accepting of Gays, abortion and euthanasia. But also an increase in the hardliner conservatives. I don't think there will be a massive religious war between Christianity and Islam, simply because neither side is centralized.
Religion is a human invention. It suffers from the frailties of all human organizations. Or as Bertram Tung puts it in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines:"Where ever there's power you'll find people fucking each other over it."
Politics has always been found in religions. Like the papal elections, since the earliest times cardinals have been currying favour amongst each other to become the Pope. I don't think in the last two centuries there hasn't been a papal election where the winner was already determined before they convened.
PS: On the whole thing about Witnesses and other withdrawn groups not voting, in Australia, especially Victoria and New South Wales, both The Exclusive Brethren and to a lesser extent the JWs, have been found to be donating significant sums to the more conservetive parties, excepting the Family First Party, as that is mainly supported by another group of churches.
Which brings up the obvious question, "If you don't vote, then why donate 100,000 to three similar parties every financial year?"

Not sure I understand the people who say that Christianity is moving toward more fundamentalism and hardliner with liberals slipping off into total "non-religiosity".

I do not think liberal Christians participate less in their congregations or churches, not sure why they would increasingly become nonreligious, and by liberal I mean many mainline protestant denominations are becoming liberal or are called liberal, maybe not officially but within their congregations and such.

To be liberal to me a denomination does not have to officially endorse liberal values, but have preachers who are allowed to preach or discuss such, congregations that are characterized more and more by a liberal quality and perception, etc.

WHAT!!!!!!"Liberal" christian what a stupid idea.

To be liberal to me a denomination does not have to officially endorse liberal values, but have preachers who are allowed to preach or discuss such, congregations that are characterized more and more by a liberal quality and perception, etc.
That's what I thought you meant.

Theology can be explored in two ways - either through personal exploration, discussing it with other people and finding your own way around with their support, or by being explicitly laid out in a set of rules, conventions, stories and explanations taught by preachers.

The former of these is philosophy; the latter, by definition, religion. Liberalism, even in spirit, endorses the former at the expense of the latter. The more liberal a group becomes, the more it tends to Free Thought and Philosophy and the further it gets from Groupthink and Religion.

That's what I thought you meant.

Theology can be explored in two ways - either through personal exploration, discussing it with other people and finding your own way around with their support, or by being explicitly laid out in a set of rules, conventions, stories and explanations taught by preachers.

The former of these is philosophy; the latter, by definition, religion. Liberalism, even in spirit, endorses the former at the expense of the latter. The more liberal a group becomes, the more it tends to Free Thought and Philosophy and the further it gets from Groupthink and Religion.
Not always though. I think you have religion, a set of beliefs in a deity or deities, confused with organized religions. And even then, organized religions do not always entail groupthink.

Not always though. I think you have religion, a set of beliefs in a deity or deities, confused with organized religions. And even then, organized religions do not always entail groupthink.
It's not possible for us to fully qualify deity in a set of beliefs tied to human experience. As a result, all attempted formalisation of such a set of beliefs, whether personal or institutional, is both necessarily incomplete and incorrect.

It is the ultimate boundary to liberal theology that we must cast aside the security that God exists in some finite system of ideas; once this has been done, what is left can no longer be called religion.

WHAT!!!!!!"Liberal" christian what a stupid idea.

Only if you take the kind of approach to scripture that analyses line by line, in isolation... trying to make the whole text a series of cammands, rather than a message to hear ALL of.

Jesus was pretty clear about what was REALLY important. Top of the list was love... love god, love everyone love yourself. Second on the list was abandoning a hidebound constriction to the LETTER of the law.

Amazing how those two most central tenets are so readily overlooked by so many.