NationStates Jolt Archive

That's right. Darth Cheney is a granddad again (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070523/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_baby_1). Somehow, it doesn't make him more cuddly. Here's the photo from the Vice-President's office press release:
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070523/capt.c61b49f90a2140b39a2964b9425ed30b.cheney_grandson_wx112.jpg?x=180&y=256&sig=x9ZzErW2OJly.clVqKlRZA--

Notice anything missing? Like the mother of the child and her girlfriend?

Oh wait--mentioning that the lesbian daughter of the VP is a lesbian even though she's a lesbian activist and has been out as a lesbian for years is somehow homophobic--at least according to Lynn and Dick Cheney.

And if you're interested, you can check out what the Freepers have to say about it (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1838677/posts). My personal favorite?
I guess Dick Cheney is going to have to be the male influence in his life. At least that’s positive.
Right--like Mary can't teach him to shoot a man in the face.

Right--like Mary can't teach him to shoot a man in the face.

Yeah, but can she teach him to shoot a man in the face and then have the man apologize for all the terrible things your shooting him in the face has done to your family?

I guess Dick Cheney is going to have to be the male influence in his life. At least that’s positive.
Positive??? Are they kidding???

And the photo is horrifying. He looks like he wants to eat the poor little thing. Somebody get that baby away from him!!! :eek:

I guess this means Mary Cheney's pulling an Anne Heche.

Yeah, but can she teach him to shoot a man in the face and then have the man apologize for all the terrible things your shooting him in the face has done to your family?

I guess granddad does have a role after all--and I doubt Mary can do that Penguin laugh justice.

And if you're interested, you can check out what the Freepers have to say about it (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1838677/posts).

I shouldn't have clicked on that link - several of the comments just broke my brain.

I shouldn't have clicked on that link - several of the comments just broke my brain.

Freeperworld is a dangerous place. Makes NSG look downright calm.

I shouldn't have clicked on that link - several of the comments just broke my brain.

I think my head might actually implode after reading that. Jesus Fucking Christ.

I shouldn't have clicked on that link - several of the comments just broke my brain.

Ugh. God damn you. I wasn't going to hit the link until you posted.

Freeperworld is a dangerous place. Makes NSG look downright calm.

Makes NSG look downright intelligent.

Those comments on that board just made my brain go numb. I'm gonna go finish my essay, otherwise reading anymore of those posts will kill my brain for the night.

Congrats to all the Cheneys! :)

I shouldn't have clicked on that link - several of the comments just broke my brain.

I think my head might actually implode after reading that. Jesus Fucking Christ.

Ugh. God damn you. I wasn't going to hit the link until you posted.

Makes NSG look downright intelligent.

Those comments on that board just made my brain go numb. I'm gonna go finish my essay, otherwise reading anymore of those posts will kill my brain for the night.
And those people all vote--religiously. And you wonder why I get a little extreme around here sometimes.

I shouldn't have clicked on that link - several of the comments just broke my brain.

What the hell is that place? It's terrible.

They also keep on asking who the 'daddy' is. Who cares, unless the lesbian couple decide to sue for child support, and then that dude is screwed worse than Iraq.

Anyways, I hope the child is happy and healthy and live a good life.

I should not have clicked there.

They also keep on asking who the 'daddy' is. Who cares, unless the lesbian couple decide to sue for child support, and then that dude is screwed worse than Iraq. The advantage of using a sperm donor is that the donor is automatically off the hook for child support. It's part of the deal.

Anyways, I hope the child is happy and healthy and live a good life.
Me too. I want that for any kid.

Freeperworld is a dangerous place. Makes NSG look downright calm.

Really, now?

Freeperworld is a dangerous place. Makes NSG look downright calm.

It *should* be calm there, given that everyone agrees with each other, but it never works that way. Same goes for other partisan sites like democratunderground.com. Instead of having multiple viewpoints, it's like a massive catfight over who can be the most partisan! :D Makes for good comedy.

What the hell is that place? It's terrible.

Yes. Somebody noted that lesbians aren't noted for their long relationships and the child will probably "know many mommies". Somebody calmly replied "They’ve been together for 16 years." So somebody else replied, "So? They've been immoral for 16 years. Does that make them special?"

Sigh.

The advantage of using a sperm donor is that the donor is automatically off the hook for child support. It's part of the deal.


Hmmm....

*goes down to the sperm bank*

That's right NSG, I will populate the world with my seed! :D

I guess this means Mary Cheney's pulling an Anne Heche.

That... doesn't make sense.

I do admit minor curiosity as to how she was impregnated. It was probably via donar sperm and given to her by her partner, but I am curious nonetheless. Not for the purposes Freeper's seem to have in mind, but simple curiosity.

The advantage of using a sperm donor is that the donor is automatically off the hook for child support. It's part of the deal.

Unless they decided to go with a friend for sperm "donation," then he is liable for child support.

Is it just me that thought the thread title was the name of a song to the tune of Old Macdonald had a farm...

...it was, oh I'll fetch my coat.

It’s all fun and games until a rampaging Cheney destroys half your city

The grandparents will probably have publicity photos coming out their ass with the kid... with the gay daughter nowhere in sight.

I do admit minor curiosity as to how she was impregnated. It was probably via donar sperm and given to her by her partner, but I am curious nonetheless. Not for the purposes Freeper's seem to have in mind, but simple curiosity.

Too bad it's none of your beeswax, eh?

Yes. Somebody noted that lesbians aren't noted for their long relationships and the child will probably "know many mommies". Somebody calmly replied "They’ve been together for 16 years." So somebody else replied, "So? They've been immoral for 16 years. Does that make them special?"

Sigh.

This is pretty typical for the site as well, sadly.

This is pretty typical for the site as well, sadly.

Someone else was comparing a lesbian relationship with child abuse and slavery.

And there's nothing the far right can do about it! Wonderful!

I like the comment that said something like, "At least he's a boy so he won't look to them as role models."

Excuse me? Young boys don't see their mothers as role models?

I like the comment that said something like, "At least he's a boy so he won't look to them as role models."

Excuse me? Young boys don't see their mothers as role models?

Didn't you know? Being a woman is degrading.

Didn't you know? Being a woman is degrading.

Or something like that.

I can only hope Mary keeps the kid from her father as much as possible so he doesn't get too screwed up. Oh and hopefully he'll grow up to be a Democrat and Cheny will live long enough when he tells him.

"Grandpa. I'm a Democrat."

Good for her. Congratulations to the proud parents and grandparents.

I can only hope Mary keeps the kid from her father as much as possible so he doesn't get too screwed up. Oh and hopefully he'll grow up to be a Democrat and Cheny will live long enough when he tells him.

"Grandpa. I'm a Democrat."
Daughter Cheney is already pretty fucked up being a Republican. The whole family is fucking looney.

Daughter Cheney is already pretty fucked up being a Republican. The whole family is fucking looney.

Better Mary teaches him about the world than Dead Eye Dick.

Congrats to Mary Cheney but I feel sorry for the kid what with the extended family and media spotlight he is being born into

Congrats to Mary Cheney but I feel sorry for the kid what with the extended family and media spotlight he is being born into
We all have relatives that embarrass us. We could do worse than having the VP as a granddad.

We all have relatives that embarrass us. We could do worse than having the VP as a granddad.

Yeah I'm sure some kids would be proud that they were related to Stalin too but it's nothing to brag about. At least the kid won't have to worry about money. Still, I think the worst part is the media spotlight.

I too feel bad for this child. Not because of his lesbian parents, oh no. Rather, I feel bad for him that he will be forced to grow up in a family the patriarch of which has made it very clear that he believes that his life, and the life of his mother are immoral and inferior, and that said patriarch is a powerful member of a political organization that seeks to abolish the very upbringing that he will have.

yes, I feel greatly sorry for him that he is automatically born into an institution that despises him, his mothers, and everything about their lives.

Hypocrites.

I too feel bad for this child. Not because of his lesbian parents, oh no. Rather, I feel bad for him that he will be forced to grow up in a family the patriarch of which has made it very clear that he believes that his life, and the life of his mother are immoral and inferior, and that said patriarch is a powerful member of a political organization that seeks to abolish the very upbringing that he will have.

yes, I feel greatly sorry for him that he is automatically born into an institution that despises him, his mothers, and everything about their lives.

While I dislike many things about Dick Cheney, I don't think that he has ever voiced his personal opinion on homosexuality. It is quite possible that Cheney has decided that his daughter's life is not immoral or inferior.

You are correct about the organisation, by which I believe you mean the Republican party, but I am not sure about Cheney himself.

Oh, and one of the libertarian freepers posted this link to a psychological study which found that kids raised by homosexual parents are as well adjusted as kids raised by heteroseual parents:
http://www.apa.org/monitor/dec05/kids.html

While I dislike many things about Dick Cheney, I don't think that he has ever voiced his personal opinion on homosexuality. It is quite possible that Cheney has decided that his daughter's life is not immoral or inferior.

He has stood behind the Republican party on issues regarding sexuality. I'd actually think even less of him if his personal opinion differed from them and he still did it.

He has said that gay marriage should be "a state issue" which means fundamentally that he doesn't think marriage is a right.

I can only hope Mary keeps the kid from her father as much as possible so he doesn't get too screwed up. Oh and hopefully he'll grow up to be a Democrat and Cheny will live long enough when he tells him.

"Grandpa. I'm a Democrat."

Oh comon, I doubt Mr. Cheney would be a bad grandpa, what a person is like in his public life isn't exactly the way a person is like in his private life.

Oh comon, I doubt Mr. Cheney would be a bad grandpa, what a person is like in his public life isn't exactly the way a person is like in his private life.

As long as Dick doesn't take his grandson out hunting.

Congratulations to the mothers.

As long as Dick doesn't take his grandson out hunting.

and you know he could make the grandchild apologize lol. You know, maybe having Mr. Cheney as a grandpa wouldn't be a bad thing, at least the kid will never get picked on at school.

Oh comon, I doubt Mr. Cheney would be a bad grandpa, what a person is like in his public life isn't exactly the way a person is like in his private life.

But the child will see that person in public and in private life....

It would be rather confusing to a child to be treated well in private, only to have his grandpa stand by those who care little for his welfare and are perfectly willing to insult and judge his mommies.

But the child will see that person in public and in private life....

It would be rather confusing to a child to be treated well in private, only to have his grandpa stand by those who care little for his welfare and are perfectly willing to insult and judge his mommies.

Ok, now beside the gay marriage ban (which I agree was wrong and if pass would've extended Gov. Co's power further than it needed to go) can anyone really point to a time when Mr. Cheney insulted and judged his own daughter?

Ok, now beside the gay marriage ban (which I agree was wrong and if pass would've extended Gov. Co's power further than it needed to go) can anyone really point to a time when Mr. Cheney insulted and judged his own daughter?

No, but I didn't claim he did. What I said is that he stands behind those who do.

No, but I didn't claim he did. What I said is that he stands behind those who do.

So politicians are hypocrites......where the hell have you been?

So politicians are hypocrites......where the hell have you been?

Nowhere. I just don't think having a politician (aka hypocrite) for a grandparent (or parent, for that matter) - especially when some of that persons' hypocrisy deals with fundamental issues in your life - is a good situation for a child.

Nowhere. I just don't think having a politician (aka hypocrite) for a grandparent (or parent, for that matter) - especially when some of that persons' hypocrisy deals with fundamental issues in your life - is a good situation for a child.

While it may be confusing at first, I'm sure grandpa Cheney will sit down with the child and actually explain it, or at least one of his parents will.

While it may be confusing at first, I'm sure grandpa Cheney will sit down with the child and actually explain it, or at least one of his parents will.

explain what exactly? That Grandpa is a powerful figure in an institution that views his own daughter, and her loving, comitted partner, as both suffering from a disease at best, and hell bound sinners at worst?

explain what exactly? That Grandpa is a powerful figure in an institution that views his own daughter, and her loving, comitted partner, as both suffering from a disease at best, and hell bound sinners at worst?

That in order to remain in power, the Republicans has to whore themselves out to the religious fundies and that was the only reason they even propose the gay marriage ban, so in another words, politicians are hypocritical wussies and crooks on both side.

How on earth did THAT happen? Parthenogenesis? Did Cheney father a shark?

How on earth did THAT happen? Parthenogenesis? Did Cheney father a shark?

Exactly! We ALL know that homosexuals are biologically INCAPABLE of having children!


OH......

While it may be confusing at first, I'm sure grandpa Cheney will sit down with the child and actually explain it, or at least one of his parents will.

Explain what? That Cheney is a hypocrite, and therefore a bad role model? Actions speak louder than words. A parent (or grandparent) who says, "I really really love you," and then turns around and acts otherwise is going to confuse a child - no matter how much talking they do.

explain what exactly? That Grandpa is a powerful figure in an institution that views his own daughter, and her loving, comitted partner, as both suffering from a disease at best, and hell bound sinners at worst?

by the time it needs to be explained, little sammy will be a teenager and grandpa will be long retired from public office.

yeah it will upset him but he will judge his grandfather based on how he and his family was treated not on his public non-support of gay rights. after all, there will be far more reason to have sammy's head spin than that grandpa was a hypocrit.

A baby's birth has just been politicized. I do not think mankind can go any lower.

A baby's birth has just been politicized. I do not think mankind can go any lower.

You think that is worse than terrorism or rape?

You think that is worse than terrorism or rape?

Apparently. Somehow, I think civilization will survive this horrible injustice.

Apparently. Somehow, I think civilization will survive this horrible injustice.

:D

This is why I avoid freerepublic.com:

I’m willing to bet the kid will rebel and tell “Heather” to get lost.
I wonder if that means only boys rebel against lesbians parents or should I prepare for my daughter to rebel against us? And what the hell is with the "Heather" in quotation marks? Some people can be so blantantly ignorant. :upyours:

I never realized I was living under a rock, since I had no idea she was pregnant
If you are posting on that site, I am not surprised you ' ...never realized ...' - ignorance rarely does. :headbang:

Lesbians are not known for their long relationships.
Really?? Acording to divorce rate statistics in the U.S., neither are heterosexuals :)
Probably this boy will know many mommies. Just how arrogant can you get? :upyours: I pray that his maternal grandparents, Lynn and Dick, will provide the stability he will need. Ummm ...right.:rolleyes: What a sad way for a beautiful baby to enter the world. Here’s wishing him a Daddy, someday. Here's wishing you some enlightenment someday :) :upyours: As we watch these issues of life follow the spiral down to the Inferno, is it not clear that only the Catholic Church is right in every instance? OK, I’m Catholic, but my brothers in Christ must see the leadership the Catholic provides in this area. Oh, heavens, how could we?? And, while we are at it, can we see what superb leadership some of the Catholic 'leaders' themselves have provided in the areas of child molestation, child rape, and pedophilia? :upyours:I understand that some homosexuals take on opposite-sex roles, one being the male and one the female. I have actually encountered more of a thing where you have two women who dress and act like two men but who relate sexually as members of the opposite sex. I don't know if it ever works out where two women actually act/look like real women but are lesbian. Regardless, even a brief consideration of that displays the abnormality of it all. So "who is the daddy" is really quite a question. Maybe we should also ask, "Who is the role model?" Is he to see himself as a future male version of one of the females? Is he to see himself in homosexual men? Is he to see himself as growing up to be like grandpa? I suppose that last one is the best case scenerio, but then he would see himself as embracing homosexuality in his own children. I wonder if that includes sex between the children themselves. I mean why not? Whose morality says they shouldn't have sex? Or even sex between parents and children? Why not? Whose morality demands that be unacceptable? This is the worst rambling tripe I managed to get through. Who was it that said, 'That is so bad it's not even wrong!'

Probably to the delight of a multitude -- that is all I could stomach. :headbang: Everytime I go to that website I have to make a prayer to the porcelain god afterward! YUCK!

Let me also offer my congratulations to the Cheneys on their new addition.

:)

argghhhhhh....!
someone pls help me!
I can't stop reading the link Nazz provided and I can feel my brains atrophying with each sentence. But I can't stop myself! I keep reading and reading and brain gets melting and melting.
help meeeeee....

a few gems:
This is the first time I have come across people defending homos in this forum. I think because before the gays in question were democrats. I have been called a hatemonger, terrorist, bigot, and ignorant among other things. I’m having a hard time with this. I don’t understand it.
That little baby boy is just a fantasy object, a fetish for two perverts to parade around...
I'm honestly having a hard time understanding how people on a supposedly conservative forum are defending these women as they bring a child into the world to flaunt their depraved lifestyles.
Hypothetical: A single woman adopts, from a Russian orphanage, a male 3-year-old confined to a wheelchair by spina bifida and raises him as her son. That's abuse?
good question. To which we had two very good answers
runner-up:
If she adopts with no intention of marrying and providing the child with a father, then yes, its abuse.
Single women should not be allowed to adopt and raise children on their own. Its unnatural.
Outright winner:
Actually that is a perfect example. If an older male pedophile Satanist adopted a male infant to raise along with his boy harem, would that be abuse? In the example, the man never molests the infant, just raises it and provides food, shelter, etc.
The clear answer is: YES! That is a form of abuse. To raise a child under an environment based on evil, sin, and selfishness does not go unpunished. Children are not dumb. They see what goes on around them and if they are raised by pedophiles, militant homosexuals, or car-jackers, they will eventually suffer from their parents practicing a dangerous unhealthy lifestyle. There are consequences for everything, that is the bottom line. Would you want a child raised up by Maxine Waters or Michael Moore? Of course not, because of their degenerate lifestyle.
oh god, that's it. I've just read someone equating a single mum to a Satanist child molester. My brain has totally expired.

I can imagine the birthday presents, heres 1 billion dollars in war profit blood money son.

I can imagine the birthday presents, heres 1 billion dollars in war profit blood money son.
Dick Cheney (to his grandson), "Damnit! Play with the toys I got you! Do you have any idea how much that contract with Haliburton cost the US tax payer to buy you those toys? A lot. A helluvalot. So you better play with them and be grateful! Otherwise they're all going to the Iraqi orphange the contract was originally made out for."
(Dick then does that weird scary thing with his mouth)

Dick Cheney (to his grandson), "Damnit! Play with the toys I got you! Do you have any idea how much that contract with Haliburton cost the US tax payer to buy you those toys? A lot. A helluvalot. So you better play with them and be grateful! Otherwise they're all going to the Iraqi orphange the contract was originally made out for."
(Dick then does that weird scary thing with his mouth)

Dick may actually get his grandson a tank.....I envy him now....I want a tank....

Dick may actually get his grandson a tank.....I envy him now....I want a tank....

Give me an A-10 Thunderbolt.

Give me an A-10 Thunderbolt.

Why not an authentic Fokker? You could point at it when your friends come over and say "See that? That's my fokker."

Give me an A-10 Thunderbolt.

I've forgotten about the tank buster. :) But what would really be sweet is the F-22 Raptor. :D

Give me an A-10 Thunderbolt.

He should be greedy and ask for the only yet build f-35 lightning with nuclear weapons.

oh god, that's it. I've just read someone equating a single mum to a Satanist child molester. My brain has totally expired.

I didn't get as far as that quote before my brain expired, but I just have to say that I love the term "militant homosexual," (especially as it is here used, apparently, to mean "homosexual who goes so insanely far as to actually have a relationship with someone of the same sex"). I can't really figure out what a "militant homosexual" might be (really aggressively fabulous?), but I'm pretty sure Log Cabin Republicans like Mary Cheney aren't it. :p

Why not an authentic Fokker? You could point at it when your friends come over and say "See that? That's my fokker."
Get one for his mum, and then he could say, "And that's my mother's fokker."

He could use the same line when introducing his mum's wife.

Really?? Acording to divorce rate statistics in the U.S., neither are heterosexuals :)

Ah, but that's getting better, shockingly. Divorce is down! Maybe the traditional family is coming back. That, or immigration is bringing more 15-year old wives north from Guatemala. :D

Ah, but that's getting better, shockingly. Divorce is down! Maybe the traditional family is coming back. That, or immigration is bringing more 15-year old wives north from Guatemala. :D

Either that or less couples are getting married.

hope the doctors checked his scalp for a '666' tattoo.

hope the doctors checked his scalp for a '666' tattoo.

Oh brother :rolleyes:

That's right. Darth Cheney is a granddad again (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070523/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_baby_1). Somehow, it doesn't make him more cuddly. Here's the photo from the Vice-President's office press release:
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070523/capt.c61b49f90a2140b39a2964b9425ed30b.cheney_grandson_wx112.jpg?x=180&y=256&sig=x9ZzErW2OJly.clVqKlRZA--

Notice anything missing? Like the mother of the child and her girlfriend?

Oh wait--mentioning that the lesbian daughter of the VP is a lesbian even though she's a lesbian activist and has been out as a lesbian for years is somehow homophobic--at least according to Lynn and Dick Cheney.

And if you're interested, you can check out what the Freepers have to say about it (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1838677/posts). My personal favorite?

Right--like Mary can't teach him to shoot a man in the face.
my kids have lots of pictures of themselves with their grandparents, and I am nowhere to be seen in the photo.......do you think they have an agenda?

my kids have lots of pictures of themselves with their grandparents, and I am nowhere to be seen in the photo.......do you think they have an agenda?

Heck..I have pictures with my nieces and nephews by myself with them. Do I have an agenda?

This could open up a whole can of worms. :D

My brother and my sister are always complaining i don't spend enough time with their kids. Both of them as well as his wife and her husband would happily have me have a photo taken with the kids. Then they would run away and i would never hear from them again and i would have 4 mouths to feed. :headbang:

That's right. Darth Cheney is a granddad again (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070523/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_baby_1). Somehow, it doesn't make him more cuddly. Here's the photo from the Vice-President's office press release:
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070523/capt.c61b49f90a2140b39a2964b9425ed30b.cheney_grandson_wx112.jpg?x=180&y=256&sig=x9ZzErW2OJly.clVqKlRZA--

Notice anything missing? Like the mother of the child and her girlfriend?

Oh wait--mentioning that the lesbian daughter of the VP is a lesbian even though she's a lesbian activist and has been out as a lesbian for years is somehow homophobic--at least according to Lynn and Dick Cheney.

And if you're interested, you can check out what the Freepers have to say about it (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1838677/posts). My personal favorite?

Right--like Mary can't teach him to shoot a man in the face.
Well, I guess it's good that the kid is a white upper class male. If it had been any other demographic, then it would have to grow up knowing that Grandpa dedicated his life to ruining the future for his own grandkid.

If I read any more, I'm going on a rampage. Why can't these fools realize this kid has more than many kids do in the US? He already has two people who love him and are capable of taking care of him!

Remind me to avoid "freepers" at all costs...I just might end up in prison.

He has stood behind the Republican party on issues regarding sexuality. I'd actually think even less of him if his personal opinion differed from them and he still did it.

As far as I understand it, there is no single policy regarding sexual orientation in the Republican party. The very existence of the Log Cabin Republicans attests to that. Some Republicans want a constitutional amendment. Others, including Cheney apparently, want to make it a state issue. I find it difficult to believe he stood behind the party when the party has no concensus.

He has said that gay marriage should be "a state issue" which means fundamentally that he doesn't think marriage is a right.

Cheney doesn't give a shit about human rights. That is common knowledge. To me, Cheney's position is more like: the federal government should stay out of it, and I'm rich enough that it doesn't matter anyway. With his type of wealth, he can purchase lawyers to set up all the required documents so that his daughter and her partner have all the benefits of marriage, regardless of any marriage laws.

I guess you think that somehow, the whole world is unaware that Cheney's daughter is a lesbian.

Everyone knows.

What, do you want Cheney to make a special point of always pointing it out, so that you won't be able to say, "He's hiding something!"

As far as I understand it, there is no single policy regarding sexual orientation in the Republican party. The very existence of the Log Cabin Republicans attests to that. Some Republicans want a constitutional amendment. Others, including Cheney apparently, want to make it a state issue. I find it difficult to believe he stood behind the party when the party has no concensus.

Of course the party has a consensus. It was a party platform in the last presidential election to be opposed to equal treatment of homosexuals. The Log Cabin Republicans fought to have that plank taken out of the party platform - unsuccessfully.

Cheney doesn't give a shit about human rights. That is common knowledge. To me, Cheney's position is more like: the federal government should stay out of it, and I'm rich enough that it doesn't matter anyway. With his type of wealth, he can purchase lawyers to set up all the required documents so that his daughter and her partner have all the benefits of marriage, regardless of any marriage laws.

Yes, and that makes it all better.....:rolleyes:

my kids have lots of pictures of themselves with their grandparents, and I am nowhere to be seen in the photo.......do you think they have an agenda?

Are you the Vice-President of the US sending out a press release announcing the birth of your grandchild? It's not remotely the same, Smunkee.

I guess you think that somehow, the whole world is unaware that Cheney's daughter is a lesbian.

Everyone knows.

What, do you want Cheney to make a special point of always pointing it out, so that you won't be able to say, "He's hiding something!"

Actually, I'd be satisfied if the Cheneys didn't actually argue that mentioning the fact that their daughter is lesbian even though she's out, has been out, and has indeed worked as a gay rights advocate is somehow gay-bashing, which they did in the 2004 election season.

Of course the party has a consensus. It was a party platform in the last presidential election to be opposed to equal treatment of homosexuals. The Log Cabin Republicans fought to have that plank taken out of the party platform - unsuccessfully.

Cool. Please provide a link showing exactly what the consensus was, and how Cheney personally supported it. Thanks.

Yes, and that makes it all better.....:rolleyes:

Actually, it doesn't. But since I wasn't trying to prove that, it really doesn't matter.

The point I am trying to make is this:

Cheney's hypocrisy is that he supports a party that seeks to keep queer people from having the same rights as heterosexuals, and at the same time supports his daughter who is a lesbian.

In my mind, this is a higher standard for unhypocritical behaviour than the one many people apply to themselves, especially when we're talking about support for political parties.

Here's an example: in the last Quebec provincial election, I voted for a party called Québec Solidaire. I disagreed with them on two issues: gun control and Quebec sovereignty. Yet I supported them.

Now, Deadeye Dick apparently supports the Republican party in all things except on the issue of homosexuality. That's only one issue.

I guess that means I am twice the hypocrite that Cheney is.

Of course, if anyone can provide a link that shows Dick Cheney clearly stating that homosexuals should not be allowed to have children, or anything similar, I will gladly admit that I am wrong. I have no love for Cheney.

Cool. Please provide a link showing exactly what the consensus was, and how Cheney personally supported it. Thanks.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2004_GOP_Platform.htm

Cheney was the VP candidate. He put his support behind the entire party platform. The Log Cabin Republicans fought to pull some of the planks listed under "civil rights" (are they trying to make a joke here?) taken out, but were unsuccessful. Cheney was not among them.

Actually, it doesn't. But since I wasn't trying to prove that, it really doesn't matter.

Then what is your point?

The point I am trying to make is this:

Cheney's hypocrisy is that he supports a party that seeks to keep queer people from having the same rights as heterosexuals, and at the same time supports his daughter who is a lesbian.

In my mind, this is a higher standard for unhypocritical behaviour than the one many people apply to themselves, especially when we're talking about support for political parties.

Here's an example: in the last Quebec provincial election, I voted for a party called Québec Solidaire. I disagreed with them on two issues: gun control and Quebec sovereignty. Yet I supported them.

Supporting a party because they are better than the others, even with some disagreement, is a different issue. Cheney is one of the leaders of his party, and yet makes no move to change their stances on this issue.

If the party you voted for looked to you for leadership or asked how you felt about those two issues, would you say, "Whatever you guys say," or would you say, "Well, I'd prefer it if we didn't have these two bullshit issues that I don't agree with...."?

Now, Deadeye Dick apparently supports the Republican party in all things except on the issue of homosexuality. That's only one issue.

I don't see it as being very apparent, considering the fact that he has never spoken out against his party's stance on homosexuality. He could quite easily have made a statement to that effect. He could have fought with the LCRs to try and remove the planks he disagreed with. He did not.

Publicly, it would seem that he is in full support of condemning homosexuals and treating them as second class citizens - so long as they don't have his money and family connections.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2004_GOP_Platform.htm

Cheney was the VP candidate. He put his support behind the entire party platform. The Log Cabin Republicans fought to pull some of the planks listed under "civil rights" (are they trying to make a joke here?) taken out, but were unsuccessful. Cheney was not among them.

Then what is your point?

Supporting a party because they are better than the others, even with some disagreement, is a different issue. Cheney is one of the leaders of his party, and yet makes no move to change their stances on this issue.

If the party you voted for looked to you for leadership or asked how you felt about those two issues, would you say, "Whatever you guys say," or would you say, "Well, I'd prefer it if we didn't have these two bullshit issues that I don't agree with...."?

I don't see it as being very apparent, considering the fact that he has never spoken out against his party's stance on homosexuality. He could quite easily have made a statement to that effect. He could have fought with the LCRs to try and remove the planks he disagreed with. He did not.

Publicly, it would seem that he is in full support of condemning homosexuals and treating them as second class citizens - so long as they don't have his money and family connections.

At the same time that the GOP was issuing a draft of their platform at their convention, Cheney had this (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/25/politics/campaign/25cheney.html?ex=1251172800&en=b83b965d05b349b0&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland) to say about same sex mariiage:

"freedom means freedom for everyone" to enter "into any kind of relationship they want to."

I think it would be fair to assume that that was a public criticsim of the GOP plank for a constitutional amendment.

Perhaps you could find a link that supports waht you claim to be Cheney's opinion on the matter or has a quote from him supporting the GOP position.

At the same time that the GOP was issuing a draft of their platform at their convention, Cheney had this (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/25/politics/campaign/25cheney.html?ex=1251172800&en=b83b965d05b349b0&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland) to say about same sex mariiage:



I think it would be fair to assume that that was a public criticsim of the GOP plank for a constitutional amendment.

Perhaps you could find a link that supports waht you claim to be Cheney's opinion on the matter or has a quote from him supporting the GOP position.


This link (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/1/11/101918.shtml) has a quote of Cheney saying he will support the President on whatever decision he makes regarding the gay marriage issue and we know what decision Bush was wanting to make. That's a pretty good endorsement, I think. He obviously would support a gay marriage ban.

At the same time that the GOP was issuing a draft of their platform at their convention, Cheney had this (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/25/politics/campaign/25cheney.html?ex=1251172800&en=b83b965d05b349b0&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland) to say about same sex mariiage:

I think it would be fair to assume that that was a public criticsim of the GOP plank for a constitutional amendment.

Not really. Being able to enter into a relationship and having that relationship recognized and protected by the government are two very different things. Cheney has said that same-sex marriage is a "state issue" essentially stating that states can grant it or not as they please. In other words, it is perfectly ok for states to decide that homosexuals are second class citizens who should not receive the same legal protections as heterosexuals. Meanwhile, declaring it a "state issue" means that the federal government would not recognize such unions - and thus the protections that go along with that would not be applied to same-sex marriage.

This link has a quote of Cheney saying he will support the President on whatever decision he makes regarding the gay marriage issue and we know what decision Bush was wanting to make. That's a pretty good endorsement, I think. He obviously would support a gay marriage ban.

And then there's this.

Cheney has said that same-sex marriage is a "state issue" essentially stating that states can grant it or not as they please. In other words, it is perfectly ok for states to decide that homosexuals are second class citizens who should not receive the same legal protections as heterosexuals. Meanwhile, declaring it a "state issue" means that the federal government would not recognize such unions - and thus the protections that go along with that would not be applied to same-sex marriage.

As I said before, believing it to be a "state issue" is to believe it is not a fundamental right. You can not believe it to be a right and yet believe it to be a state issue at the same time.

At BEST it could be said cheney doesn't have a particular personal problem with gays getting married. At best it could be said that it might not bother him. But he doesn't believe that it's a right. And frankly speaking, in the fight for civil rights, "I don't care if they do" is not much better than "I don't want it". Either you believe in civil rights, or you do not.

Are you the Vice-President of the US sending out a press release announcing the birth of your grandchild? It's not remotely the same, Smunkee.

yeah but most new moms do look like crap. it doesnt make for a pretty publicity picture.

yeah but most new moms do look like crap. it doesnt make for a pretty publicity picture.

But let's be honest, if it has members of the Cheney family in it, it isn't a pretty publicity picture.