NationStates Jolt Archive


WiFi Is Killing Us

Zarakon
22-05-2007, 23:17
So the BBC program Panorama has informed us that WiFi is killing us.

Wi-Fi: a warning signal

Britain is in the grip of a Wi-Fi revolution with offices, homes and classrooms going wireless - but there is concern the technology could carry health risks.

The Government insists Wi-Fi is safe, but a Panorama investigation shows that radio frequency radiation levels in some schools are up to three times the level found in the main beam of intensity from mobile phone masts.

There have been no studies on the health effects of Wi-Fi equipment, but thousands on mobile phones and masts.

The radiation Wi-Fi emits is similar to that from mobile phone masts. It is an unavoidable by-product of going wireless.

In the last 18 months another two million of us in the UK have begun using Wi-Fi.

Entire cities have become what are known as wireless hotspots.

Precautionary approach

In 2000, Sir William Stewart, now chairman of the Health Protection Agency, headed the government's inquiry into the safety of mobile phone masts and health. He felt the scientific research was sufficient to apply a precautionary approach when siting masts near schools.

During that same year, the government sold off the 3G licences for £22.5bn.

Sir William recalls: "We recommended, because we were sensitive about children... that masts should not necessarily impact directly on areas where children were exposed, like playgrounds and that."

But what about Wi-Fi? The technology is similar to mobile phone masts and in use in 70 per cent of secondary schools and 50 per cent of primary schools.

Panorama visited a school in Norwich, with more than 1,000 pupils, to compare the level of radiation from a typical mobile phone mast with that of Wi-Fi in the classroom.

Readings taken for the programme showed the height of signal strength to be three times higher in the school classroom using Wi-Fi than the main beam of radiation intensity from a mobile phone mast.

The findings are particularly significant because children's skulls are thinner and still forming and tests have shown they absorb more radiation than adults.

Safety limits

The readings were well beneath the government's safety limits - as much as 600 times below - but some scientists suspect the whole basis of our safety limits may be wrong.

Panorama spoke to a number of scientists who questioned the safety limits and were concerned about the possible health effects of such radiation.

"If you look in the literature, you have a large number of various effects like chromosome damage, you have impact on the concentration capacity and decrease in short term memory, increases in the number of cancer incidences," said Professor Olle Johansson of the Karolinska Institute in Sweden.

Another scientist, Dr Gerd Oberfeld, from Salzburg is now calling for Wi-Fi to be removed from schools.

He said: "If you go into the data you can see a very very clear picture - it is like a puzzle and everything fits together from DNA break ups to the animal studies and up to the epidemiological evidence; that shows for example increased symptoms as well as increased cancer rates."

The clear advice from Sir William Stewart to the government on mobile phone masts was that the beam of greatest intensity should not fall on any part of the school grounds, unless the school and parents agreed to it.

Yet the levels tested in the classroom from Wi-Fi were much higher - three times the highest level of the mast.

Panorama contacted 50 schools at random - and found not one had been alerted by the government to any possible health effects.

Philip Parkin, general secretary of the Professional Association of Teachers said: "I think schools and parents will be very worried about it...

"I am asking schools to consider very seriously whether they should be installing Wi-Fi networks now and this will make them think twice or three times before they do it.

"I think the precautionary approach doesn't seem to have worked because it is being rolled out so rapidly...

"It's a bit like King Canute. We can't stop the tide and I am afraid if schools are told that there is a serious health implication for having these networks in schools, it is going to be a very serious matter to say to schools, you have to switch them off."

Low power

At Washington state university, Professor Henry Lai, a biologist respected by both sides of the argument says he has found health effects at similar levels of radiation to Wi-Fi.

He estimates that of the two to three thousand studies carried out over the last 30 years, there is a 50-50 split - half finding an effect with the other half finding no effect at all.

But the Health Protection Agency has said Wi-Fi devices are of very low power - much lower than mobile phones.

The Government says there is no risk and is backed up by the World Health Organisation which is robust in its language saying there are "no adverse health effects from low level, long-term exposure".

The scientist responsible for WHO's position is Dr Mike Repacholi, who headed up the health organisation's research programme into radio frequency radiation.

He was also the founder of the International Committee on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP).

He said the statement of "no adverse health effects" was based on the weight of evidence.

In order for a health effect to be established it must mean it has been repeated in a number of laboratories using very good study techniques. The findings of any published studies had been put in the mix before reaching a conclusion, he said.

"It is called a weight of evidence approach - and if that weight of evidence is not for there being an effect or not being an effect that is the only way you can tell whether there really is an adverse health effect," he said.

So...uh...what the fuck? Is this fearmongering, or do you think they have an actual case?
UNITIHU
22-05-2007, 23:21
I don't care if I die if I can play Korean kids in Mario Kart DS in McDonalds.
South Lorenya
22-05-2007, 23:22
...is someone still mad that the Wii and DS are pounding the PS3 and PSP?
Ashmoria
22-05-2007, 23:22
fearmongering

but one of these days SOMETHING is going to turn out to be deadly so if they just keep claiming that every advance is going to kill us, sooner or later they will be right.

then they can say i told you so.
Drunk commies deleted
22-05-2007, 23:22
Haven't most of the studies done on radio frequency radiation shown no correlation with cancer?
Skibereen
22-05-2007, 23:23
I find it hard to believe that the increase in radition exposure isnt doing something. But, who can say what is going on for the long term until the long term has past.
Zarakon
22-05-2007, 23:24
fearmongering

but one of these days SOMETHING is going to turn out to be deadly so if they just keep claiming that every advance is going to kill us, sooner or later they will be right.

then they can say i told you so.


"Could our nanobot medical implants be killing us? We give the answer, up nex-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGHHHHHHHH IT BURNS! IT BURNS LIKE FIRE AND ICE AT THE SAME TIME! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
UNITIHU
22-05-2007, 23:27
...is someone still mad that the Wii and DS are pounding the PS3 and PSP?

No?
IL Ruffino
22-05-2007, 23:28
Who cares, eh? I enjoy stealing peoples wifi while at random gas stations.
Infinite Revolution
22-05-2007, 23:33
here come the fear mongers now... you can hear them....


mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, mong, monnnnng!!!
Sumamba Buwhan
22-05-2007, 23:37
I am convinved that the increasingly foggy brain I have is due to the many increasing wireless transmissions I am in the midst of.
IL Ruffino
22-05-2007, 23:38
I am convinved that the increasingly foggy brain I have is due to the many increasing wireless transmissions I am in the midst of.

.. or all that weed you smoke..
The_pantless_hero
22-05-2007, 23:40
Haven't most of the studies done on radio frequency radiation shown no correlation with cancer?

Most likely, considering how light the article was on actual health risks of the high radiation and how heavy it was on implying the danger.
Sumamba Buwhan
22-05-2007, 23:43
.. or all that weed you smoke..

Naw, I've been cutting down big time.


I'm gunna go buy this stuff: http://www.forcefieldwireless.com/defendair.html :p
Ultraviolent Radiation
22-05-2007, 23:44
So...uh...what the fuck? Is this fearmongering, or do you think they have an actual case?

It's bollocks.
Llewdor
22-05-2007, 23:45
How is this even news? The article even says there is no evidence the radiation is bad for us.
Potarius
22-05-2007, 23:46
It's bollocks.

Never mind the bollocks.
IL Ruffino
22-05-2007, 23:47
Naw, I've been cutting down big time.


I'm gunna go buy this stuff: http://www.forcefieldwireless.com/defendair.html :p

I think I'll buy some of that myself.
Rubiconic Crossings
22-05-2007, 23:47
I suspect that there is small grain of truth in this but overall its not a major issue.

In this I mean that there is a possibility that those affected might well just be susceptible to chromosome damage, concentration capacity and decrease in short term memory, or cancer.

Actually thinking on this I do not think I have ever heard of anyone dying or being injured by WiFi radiation.
Zarakon
22-05-2007, 23:49
Never mind the bollocks.

You suppose we could convince Panorama to switch their opening song for something much more fitting in this situation? Hint:

We're so pretty
Oh so pretty...
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
23-05-2007, 00:04
here come the fear mongers now... you can hear them....
Well, if there's fear out there, someone's got to monger it. Or are you just anti-mongering? That's it isn't? If you were given the opporunity you'd shut down all the fearmongers, fishmongers and ironmongers, wouldn't you?
You and your hatred of the working men of the world make me ill, sir, very much so.
Ultraviolent Radiation
23-05-2007, 00:05
Never mind the bollocks.

Is the name of an album by the Sex Pistols.
Ri-an
23-05-2007, 00:06
Ri-an
1984 - 2007

Died the way he lived, surfing NS on a wifi connection.

If that actually happens, I'll roll over in my grave.
Sumamba Buwhan
23-05-2007, 00:06
I think I'll buy some of that myself.

Don't forget to paint over the windows too.
OcceanDrive
23-05-2007, 00:07
I am convinved that the increasingly foggy brain I have is due to the many increasing wireless transmissions I am in the midst of.So,
Wifi stands to kill both.. my Internet-provider and marijuana bills?

WOOHOO FTW :D
Sumamba Buwhan
23-05-2007, 01:07
So,
Wifi stands to kill both.. my Internet-provider and marijuana bills?

WOOHOO FTW :D


um... :confused: ... errr
Northern Borders
23-05-2007, 01:11
Its possible.

Imagine you live in the middle of London. Hundreds of offices, houses, factories and cell phone masts, not to mention all the TV and Radio waves all around you. And all of them emit some sort of electromagnetic wave that goes through your body thousands of times every minute and 24 hours a day.

Now, sunlight damages the body. Its a electromagnetic wave, and it can cause mutations. Now, most wifi waves arent near as powerfull as UV, but if you take into account that there are thousands of them going through your body every second, there is bound to be some damage.

And we barely know how the mind and brain works. There are probabily some waves that make our mind and brain work. If all this wifi hinders its normal function, people in these hotspots may feel a lot of problems.

Anyway, they need to do more research.
Timlitopia
23-05-2007, 01:19
Who cares? It's all going to kill us anyway ;p
Zarakon
23-05-2007, 03:04
Now, sunlight damages the body. Its a electromagnetic wave, and it can cause mutations. Now, most wifi waves arent near as powerfull as UV, but if you take into account that there are thousands of them going through your body every second, there is bound to be some damage.

Allow me to be the first to say: AWESOME!!!
The_pantless_hero
23-05-2007, 03:13
Its possible.

Imagine you live in the middle of London. Hundreds of offices, houses, factories and cell phone masts, not to mention all the TV and Radio waves all around you. And all of them emit some sort of electromagnetic wave that goes through your body thousands of times every minute and 24 hours a day.

Now, sunlight damages the body. Its a electromagnetic wave, and it can cause mutations. Now, most wifi waves arent near as powerfull as UV, but if you take into account that there are thousands of them going through your body every second, there is bound to be some damage.

And we barely know how the mind and brain works. There are probabily some waves that make our mind and brain work. If all this wifi hinders its normal function, people in these hotspots may feel a lot of problems.

Anyway, they need to do more research.
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9613/motivator3148361kq6.jpg
Seangoli
23-05-2007, 03:14
I find it hard to believe that the increase in radition exposure isnt doing something. But, who can say what is going on for the long term until the long term has past.

Eh, from what I understand, what happens in radiation is that high-frequency light waves knock out parts of the DNA, which can cause abnormal cell growth.

However, you need high-frequency waves, which radio waves are incredibly low frequency. For instance, Gamma rays(The one mostly associated with radiation sickness and such) are something on the order of 1 nanometer long. Radio waves, on the other hand, are around 1 meter long.
Katganistan
23-05-2007, 03:25
fearmongering

but one of these days SOMETHING is going to turn out to be deadly so if they just keep claiming that every advance is going to kill us, sooner or later they will be right.

then they can say i told you so.

Oh FFS, being born is deadly. Breathing is deadly. Eating eggs used to be deadly. Transfats are deadly.

You're gonna die anyway, just have fun till then.
GrandBill II
23-05-2007, 03:27
In the 60's, everybody tough smoking wasn't harmful...
Slaughterhouse five
23-05-2007, 03:44
In the 60's, everybody tough smoking wasn't harmful...

and in the 00's people thought everything was harmful. how times have changed
Zarakon
23-05-2007, 03:45
and in the 00's people thought everything was harmful. how times have changed

Have you ever read the book "Everything Bad For You: Things You Didn't Even Know Could Kill You"? I've read part of it. It has "antidepressants, not taking" in it, and shortly after that there's "antidepressants, taking"
Northern Borders
23-05-2007, 15:38
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9613/motivator3148361kq6.jpg

I dont wear it in my head. I wear it in my balls. :D

Anyway, even oxigen is bad for us. Its high eletronegativity messes with our cells and make them grow older. Meaning that oxigen is one of the reasons we grow older.

We should all stop breathing. That is the secret to imortality.

The funny thing is that some of India´s philosophies do say that your life will be longer the less you breath.
Ashmoria
23-05-2007, 16:24
Oh FFS, being born is deadly. Breathing is deadly. Eating eggs used to be deadly. Transfats are deadly.

You're gonna die anyway, just have fun till then.

yeah but when one of their conspiracy theories "hits" they will be vindicated!
Myrmidonisia
23-05-2007, 16:36
So the BBC program Panorama has informed us that WiFi is killing us.



So...uh...what the fuck? Is this fearmongering, or do you think they have an actual case?
Well, we've been talking on cell phones that operate at about 2400 MHz for a few years and the health effects are minimal. I don't think WiFi is going to produce any ill effects, either.

But it's always nice to read about another conspiracy theory. At least it keeps them away from writing more about global warming...
Jesuis
24-05-2007, 15:22
fearmongering

but one of these days SOMETHING is going to turn out to be deadly so if they just keep claiming that every advance is going to kill us, sooner or later they will be right.

then they can say i told you so.

Best part is that when it happens idiots all over will put more faith in old things they had heard like this.