NationStates Jolt Archive

I screwed up with the poll, so just state your religion.

Feel free to ask people questions about their religion, but try to keep it civil. We have enough threads about whether or not there is a deity of some sort. I'd prefer we focus on other beliefs and practices.

I'm Jewish, by the way.

I know I shouldn't get involved in this as religious threads pop-up all the time and they seem to end badly.

Anyhoo, I'm an atheist.

W00t! Here we go again!:rolleyes:

Edit:BTW, For those who can't see my sig: I am a Satanist.

Jewish

I am the only real and true religion. *nods* :p

*wonders will there be another Catholics aren't Christian debate*

I'm not religious...

Nonreligious.

Indignant Agnostic Deist.

None of ze Aboove.

*wonders will there be another Catholics aren't Christian debate*yes, it's always funny to see minority christians telling majority christians that they are not christians at all...

Indo-European Neo-Heathen.

Not entirely sure...I've got Christian leanings, I've got deist leanings. I've officially ruled out atheism though, so I'm no longer a proper agnostic.

Still agnostic. Turning more and more atheist on this forum, though.

Not entirely sure...I've got Christian leanings, I've got deist leanings. I've officially ruled out atheism though, so I'm no longer a proper agnostic.

I dunno. Technically, an agnostic can't 'rule out' anything - that's the point - but it's not exactly a very strict religion. I'm sure you could get away with it.

im a catholic atheist.

I am fortunate enough to be non-religious.

Still agnostic. Turning more and more atheist on this forum, though.

NSG does that to people.

Roman Catholic

NSG does that to people.

God bless NSG.

Indo-European Neo-Heathen.

Mind elaborating on that? I don't know much about Neo-Heathens.

I'm a nontheist.

Im agnostic, you just can't tell me that there is someone out there gonna make my life better. Not gonna happen.

Mind elaborating on that? I don't know much about Neo-Heathens.

Seems to resemble a "neo-pagan".

NSG does that to people.

It controls the horizontal and the vertical...

*nods*

I am constantly going back and forth between atheism and agnosticism.....

Atheist, with significant Zen Buddhist leanings.

Im agnostic, you just can't tell me that there is someone out there gonna make my life better. Not gonna happen.

I think that makes you an atheist, by definition.

It controls the horizontal and the vertical...

*nods*

I'm usually going diagonally...

Fallen Catholic.

I think that makes you an atheist, by definition.Why? He said "Im agnostic, you just can't tell me that there is someone out there gonna make my life better." That does not rule out that there might be someone out there to make his/her life worse... (not meaning a future spouse) :p

Im agnostic, you just can't tell me that there is someone out there gonna make my life better. Not gonna happen.

Then you'd be an athiest. An agnostic, you CAN tell that there's someone out there, and they'll consider it possible, as well as considering everything else possible, too.

Fallen Catholic.Fallen from what?
Or fallen in the meaning of nephilim?

Fallen from what?
Or fallen in the meaning of nephilim?

For I beheld Satan as he fell from Heaven


Like lightning.

For I beheld Satan as he fell from Heaven
Like lightning.When was that?

Used to be mormon, now agnostic turning atheist.

Then you'd be an athiest. An agnostic, you CAN tell that there's someone out there, and they'll consider it possible, as well as considering everything else possible, too.

But as an agnostic he(?) could believe that's there's the possibility of a deity that won't do anything to make life better.

i am muslim... viva jihad against israel...

I'm too lazy to think about religion that much, or care. What does that make me?

I'm too lazy to think about religion that much, or care. What does that make me?

Amoral! :D

i am muslim... viva jihad against israel...

viva jihad? Thats an interesting slogan for a muslim! I think all muslims should use the phrase "viva jihad", it would give them that party edge that is missing from most religions!

My beliefs are mostly Hindu but I don't have a "religion" :p I guess you might call me a shaman ;)

Fallen from what?
Or fallen in the meaning of nephilim?
Fallen in the meaning of nephilim.


I prefer the phrasing to ex-Catholic.

Roman Catholic

When was that?

Tuesday before last.

My beliefs are mostly Hindu but I don't have a "religion" :p I guess you might call me a shaman ;)

*resists urge for Warcraft reference*

i am muslim... viva jihad against israel...

Please to be trying again.


Add some content next time and stop trolling.

I'm Christian. Evangelic Lutheran officially, but I don't think any denomination would want to be caught agreeing with my beliefs.

Amoral! :D

YAY I think i'll enjoy my new classification with some strippers

Catholic. The largest faith! Yay. It would have been bigger, except for those stupid protestants and Mormons.

I'm Christian. Evangelic Lutheran officially, but I don't think any denomination would want to be caught agreeing with my beliefs.

How so?

Catholic. The largest faith! Yay. It would have been bigger, except for those stupid protestants and Mormons.

http://www.pwn3d.us/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/shit-again.jpg
And so it begins.

Catholic. The largest faith! Yay. It would have been bigger, except for those stupid protestants and Mormons.

i find it interesting you mention mormons as if they are one of the two biggest sects other then catholicism.

i am muslim... viva jihad against israel...

A French Muslim to boot, apparently.

Fallen Away Catholic.

Free Baptist...or something like that.

When was that?

In the Street Fighter movie.

I'm a semi-agnostic non-denominational rational theist / recovering Catholic. :)

Cheesy.

I'm Mormon. Were not as big as the Catholic Church and certianly not as big as Islam. Last I checked anyway. I don't belive any religion will ever become bigger than Islam.

How so?

For example, I don't approve of Sunday morning services.

According to the Bible, God created the Universe in six days, and rested on the seventh, which is commonly assumed to be Sunday. That has been proven to be allegorical at best, and I believe in evolution etc., but still, Sunday is considered to be the Cristian day of resting.

Now, God is solely responsible for running the universe. It must be very demanding even for an all-powerful(?) being, and he has been working since the beginning, and will continue eternally, without any holidays and only one day per week off. If I had a job like that, I'd be royally pissed off if a bunch of people gathered under my bedroom window to sing every time, even if it was to praise me. That is why I give God the decency to not bother him on Sundays.

Secular nontheist - I don't care about your God(s), just don't force me to do things in Her name.

Also Mormon

How about we have some actual debate in this thread?

aren't there enough religious debates here already?

How about we have some actual debate in this thread?

Nah, trying to get people to think logically is exhausting.

Catholic. The largest faith! Yay. It would have been bigger, except for those stupid protestants and Mormons.there are 89.2 catholics for every mormon. they really are no threat to the real churches (i.e. catholicism and other churches of orthodoxy)

How about we have some actual debate in this thread?

Seriously, you should know better than to want a religious debate to get bigger, I'm pretty sure if the number of religious post in the jolt servers gets any larger were in real danger of the rest of the UK being destroyed by their gravitational pull.

How about we have some actual debate in this thread?

Why bother.

They all end the same way.

The catholics mock the Protestants...the Protestants the Catholics...both the Atheists...the Atheist out number both groups...no one changes their opinions on anything its reduced to flame fest eventually and all the stupid stops are pulled out.

Its just tiring.

Nah, trying to get people to think logically is exhausting.that's the main reason for the success of religions...

I was a catholic, but I've decided to worship myself...

Seriously, you should know better than to want a religious debate to get bigger,...that is because most folks never deal with the core issues of religion.

I was a catholic, but I've decided to worship myself...with sacrificing animals and all?

Nah, trying to get people to think logically is exhausting.

I like it. It's a test of strenght!

Seriously, you should know better than to want a religious debate to get bigger, I'm pretty sure if the number of religious post in the jolt servers gets any larger were in real danger of the rest of the UK being destroyed by their gravitational pull.

It's allright for me, i'm all the way down south. Jolts based up north isn't it?

Why bother.

They all end the same way.

The catholics mock the Protestants...the Protestants the Catholics...both the Atheists...the Atheist out number both groups...no one changes their opinions on anything its reduced to flame fest eventually and all the stupid stops are pulled out.

Its just tiring.

Meh, nothing else to do.

Protestant Christian, although I'm certainly no republican. Caring for the poor lines up with Jesus' teachings; blowing people away in Iraq does not.

with sacrificing animals and all?

No not at all, but I do require that my fellow followers bring me 20 dollars as a donation to the church of me...which will come back to head of the church...me.

I don't have any followers yet, so I'm giving money to myself...its an awkward cycle...

Protestant Christian, although I'm certainly no republican. Caring for the poor lines up with Jesus' teachings; blowing people away in Iraq does not.

Errrr, republican wasn't a religion last time i checked and this is no place for Iraq war rantings :rolleyes:

i am muslim... viva jihad against israel...

Viva?

It's allright for me, i'm all the way down south. Jolts based up north isn't it?


Jolt Online Gaming Ltd.
PO BOX 3930
Bracknell
Berkshire
RG42 6ZQ
United Kingdom

Apparently.

Vaguely on topic, I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheism and I had some Mormons in the house trying to convert me a couple of weeks back, they're funny.

How about we have some actual debate in this thread?

Are you insane? Lay off the crack.

Why bother.

They all end the same way.

The catholics mock the Protestants...the Protestants the Catholics...both the Atheists...the Atheist out number both groups...no one changes their opinions on anything its reduced to flame fest eventually and all the stupid stops are pulled out.

Its just tiring.

*sings*
"Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Muslims,
And eeeeeeverybody hates the Jews!"

I'm Mormon. Were not as big as the Catholic Church and certianly not as big as Islam. Last I checked anyway. I don't belive any religion will ever become bigger than Islam.

thats because you are dividing christians into denominations but leaving islam as one group.

there are far more christians than muslims. and more roman catholics than any sect of islam (i think).

*resists urge for Warcraft reference*

FROST SHOCK!

Christian - Southern Baptist

I am GOD!

I am GOD!

So am I and 30 other guys on these forums...get in line

Christian. Anglican to be specific.

I think to call me a Christian Heretic would probably be accurate to a point, though I'd consider myself a free-thinking pseudo-theist from a Western background that aligns himself explicitly to the Null position in Religious politics.

Atheist with agnostic leanings. Does not play well with fundamentalists. Beware of stubbornness.

No religion.

I don't have a religion

*sings*
"Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Muslims,
And eeeeeeverybody hates the Jews!"

No we don't. Well, some of us do, but most of us don't.

Aww who the fuck am I kidding, we do!


Anyway, I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheism, though I'm interested in the concept of Pantheism (if a bit perplexed about how to get more information on the subject than what wikipedia can provide)

*sings*
"Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Muslims,
And eeeeeeverybody hates the Jews!"

You have no idea how true that last line is.

None.

I consider myself gnostic christain

I screwed up with the poll, so just state your religion.

Feel free to ask people questions about their religion, but try to keep it civil. We have enough threads about whether or not there is a deity of some sort. I'd prefer we focus on other beliefs and practices.

I'm Jewish, by the way.
I'm areligious.

But here's the question: Why are you jewish?

thats because you are dividing christians into denominations but leaving islam as one group.

there are far more christians than muslims. and more roman catholics than any sect of islam (i think).

That is correct, in terms of numbers:
Christians > Muslims
Roman Catholics > Sunni's or Shi'ites (but not both)
Roman Catholics > All other forms of Christianity
Either Sunni's or Shi'ites > All non-Catholic Christians

Last two just for reference, I believe Islam is growing faster than Christianity though, so in approximately 200 years, Islam > Christianity, but Catholicism will most likely still have more than either the Sunni's or Shi'ites.

I myself am more or less pagan with some agnosticism on the particulars.

No we don't. Well, some of us do, but most of us don't.

Aww who the fuck am I kidding, we do!


Anyway, I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheism, though I'm interested in the concept of Pantheism (if a bit perplexed about how to get more information on the subject than what wikipedia can provide)

i dont know that there IS more information on the subject. not that there isnt but that it isnt particularly valuable to someone searching for a religion. if you want to be a pantheist you have to make it up as you go along.

Pastafarian.

mere Christian

I am Roman Catholic, and yes, there are more of us than there are Protestants/Orthodox/Anglicans put together. Last I knew, we out number any other Christian sect and religion. Pax

I'm areligious.

But here's the question: Why are you jewish?

You want the direct answer?

Because my mother was Jewish. I was born Jewish. And I have not found any other religion convincing, while my belief in Judaism has only grown stronger.

That is correct, in terms of numbers: Christians > Muslims and Roman Catholics > Sunni's or Shi'ites (but not both) Also, Roman Catholics > All other forms of Christianity and Either Sunni's or Shi'ites > All non-Catholic Christians, just for a reference point.

thanks.

i wasnt sure about the number of sunni's in the world. i found a few stats that didnt agree with each other and couldnt figure out what to put into google to get a better result.

the amazing thing is that the RC church is run by one man--the pope. the power of that kinda boggles the mind.

I suppose, if anything, I'd be an extremely half-arsed catholic, if only due to the fact that I can do whatever I want and get away scott-free in confession.

Beyond that little machiavellian notion, I worship at the alter of individualism.

thanks.

i wasnt sure about the number of sunni's in the world. i found a few stats that didnt agree with each other and couldnt figure out what to put into google to get a better result.

the amazing thing is that the RC church is run by one man--the pope. the power of that kinda boggles the mind.

Well, His Holiness is aided by the Bishops of the world, but yes, he is truly the Soveriegn Pontiff of the Catholic Church.

I suppose, if anything, I'd be an extremely half-arsed catholic, if only due to the fact that I can do whatever I want and get away scott-free in confession.

Beyond that little machiavellian notion, I worship at the alter of individualism.

Actually, if you are only Catholic because of that, there are other Christian Churchs that allow you to do whatever you want and you don't even have to tell some guy your embarrassing sins, all you have to do is be baptized and believe in Jeeeezus! (Just some good natured fun, not a seriously complaint, insult, etc)

Actually, if you are only Catholic because of that, there are other Christian Churchs that allow you to do whatever you want and you don't even have to tell some guy your embarrassing sins, all you have to do is be baptized and believe in Jeeeezus! (Just some good natured fun, not a seriously complaint, insult, etc)

Really, which ones? I'm quite interested? The church of the latter day sinners?

Ill go with Myrth.

However, thats cuz you're saying there is going to be a poll. I'm really an atheist.

Im not really very religious. However I am also a pretentious annoying freak. Thus, whenever I find myself in religious discussions, I always say that I am a Deist. This allows me to associate myself with prominent enlightenment theorists, thus preserving for literally several milliseconds the illusion that I am a quirky and intelligent individual:).

Universalist

Here it is in a nutshell :


"Unitarian Universalists search for truth along many paths. Instead of centering our religion on specific beliefs, we gather around shared moral values that include the inherent worth and dignity of every person. "

kind of like an agnostic with a plan :p

Really, which ones? I'm quite interested? The church of the latter day sinners?

Bravo :p

Really, which ones? I'm quite interested? The church of the latter day sinners?

Multiple Protestant religions. Most, if not all protestant religions (not counting Orthodox or Anglican as Protestant) teach that faith in Christ is what gets you to Heaven. While they generally stress that you should still try to live a good life, the bottom line of their theology for those who spend the time to actually study it, is that anything you do is unimportant as long as you believe in Christ, because without faith we are condemned to Hell, and with it, nothing matters as we reach heaven though Christ's merits, not ours.

atheist

greek orthodox christian!:p

mere Christian

C. S. Lewis fan? He's a good guy.

You want the direct answer?
Always.
Because my mother was Jewish. I was born Jewish.
That's why you were raised a Jew, not why you are one now.
And I have not found any other religion convincing, while my belief in Judaism has only grown stronger.
That's the why I'm looking for. Why did you accept the initial teachings of Judaism? At some point you had to examine the beliefs and either accept or reject them as a whole. You accepted them. Why?

I'm trying to work out why people have religion at all, and I usually only ever get to ask Christians (they almost never have satisfactory answers), so you're a rare opportunity.

Multiple Protestant religions. Most, if not all protestant religions (not counting Orthodox or Anglican as Protestant) teach that faith in Christ is what gets you to Heaven. While they generally stress that you should still try to live a good life, the bottom line of their theology for those who spend the time to actually study it, is that anything you do is unimportant as long as you believe in Christ, because without faith we are condemned to Hell, and with it, nothing matters as we reach heaven though Christ's merits, not ours.

so it seems on the surface but when you consider the general protestant belief that mormons, orthodox and r catholics will go to hell, it also requires a precisely correct kind of belief in jesus. belief alone might get you sent to eternal torment.

Hi, God here, unfortunately most Humans think I made the world for them, actually Its for Dogs you guys are just for walkies and feeding etc, but among all creatures in the multiverse you are the most arrogant and have the biggest ego's and are so destructive in my name I am changing the climate to give the Dogs a new start with the yeti's

so it seems on the surface but when you consider the general protestant belief that mormons, orthodox and r catholics will go to hell, it also requires a precisely correct kind of belief in jesus. belief alone might get you sent to eternal torment.

This is because they claim we worship Mary/Saints/Other Gods, so we are not truly believing in Christ as the only Son of God. Although I think you are right, it has never made much sense to me, but I am Catholic, not Protestant.

I am a pagan-leaning Unitarian Universalist. Yeah, yay for liberal churchness and good choirs.

Universalist

Here it is in a nutshell :


"Unitarian Universalists search for truth along many paths. Instead of centering our religion on specific beliefs, we gather around shared moral values that include the inherent worth and dignity of every person. "

kind of like an agnostic with a plan :p

Quite right. Unitarian Universalists are united not by what we believe happens when we die, or what the specifics about the divine, but what we believe about how people should treat each other during life on Earth.

This is because they claim we worship Mary/Saints/Other Gods, so we are not truly believing in Christ as the only Son of God. Although I think you are right, it has never made much sense to me, but I am Catholic, not Protestant.

they do the same thing to each other. (and of course the catholic church does the same to them but thats a different belief system not based on "if you believe in jesus you go straight to heaven")

Official thread Pastafarian #2

i dont know that there IS more information on the subject. not that there isnt but that it isnt particularly valuable to someone searching for a religion. if you want to be a pantheist you have to make it up as you go along.

Fair enough.

Hrm...that's actually harder than it sounds.

Slowly converting to Buddism...

they do the same thing to each other. (and of course the catholic church does the same to them but thats a different belief system not based on "if you believe in jesus you go straight to heaven")

Something interesting to note is that the Catholic Church does not claim that Protestants cannot get to Heaven, or even non-Christians. This is because the Catholics have a very different view on salvation. Protestants generally believe that they can be saved by their faith in Christ because God will ignore our sins and look at Christ's worthiness. Catholics believe that Christ's death allows us to be saved, but it is our own actions that decide this, God does not overlook our sins, we must atone for them ourselves, or resist them in the first place.

I am a Gnostic.

I believe in God, but believe that humans on earth (and specifically the religious leaders and the Church) have changed what the true meanings of the holy texts, purposely omitted certain books that conflicted with the story they wanted to tell, and have put together books to solidify their own power base here on earth.

I believe the church and holy people have purposely supressed holy scriptures that directly conflict with the story they are trying to tell, and their version of events.

I believe that there is only one God, and that God has made itself known to all peoples. Each group of people interpretted it differently. Some falsely believed a host of angels was a pantheon of gods, others believed that the other tribes around them followed a different god than theres did and that God commanded them to wage a neverending Jihad, and other such things.

I believe that most religious people now believe they are following the true path, but I do not believe that they are. I believe the pastors, rabbis, and clerics believe in what they are preaching, but I think that what they have been taught is false.

I'm not sure if that would make me a "true" Gnostic, but I do believe in reading the books for yourself, acumalating knowledge yourself and then making a decision. Blind faith is for children. When you grow up, you should want to know more about your faith, and satisfy that curiousity.

Fallen Catholic.


Those are fun.

I make my own religion to suit my needs for the day.

i am rosstafarianism.

Those are fun.

I make my own religion to suit my needs for the day.

Life after Catholicism is interesting. I really dont' know what to classify myself beyond that.

Always.

That's why you were raised a Jew, not why you are one now.

That's the why I'm looking for. Why did you accept the initial teachings of Judaism? At some point you had to examine the beliefs and either accept or reject them as a whole. You accepted them. Why?

I'm trying to work out why people have religion at all, and I usually only ever get to ask Christians (they almost never have satisfactory answers), so you're a rare opportunity.

OK, the reason I first accepted them is that I was taught them at a very young age. Did I accept them without proper inquiry? Well, knowing my younger self I probably asked a bajillion questions, but the short answer is yes. I was six. Sue me.

Now, since then, I have carefully examined my beliefs, occasionally modifying them. So far, I have found no reason to abandon them. Admittedly, I have always examined them from the inside, but that is AFTER taking into account my knowledge and love of science. I have worked all my life to reconcile the two.
For instance, I rejected eons ago the literal account of creation. The main reason was that it conflicted with the science I was being taught. Eventually, I settled on the idea that the creation account in Genesis is primarily metaphoric, but is of divine origin.
There is one area I have not resolved - the Flood. On the one hand, modern science has no evidence for the Flood, and there is no way that seven pairs of each bird species, seven pairs of each kosher animal, and two pairs of each non-kosher animal (NOT one pair of each) could have fit on a boat constructed by human beings. On the other hand, the Flood is very close, chronologically, to the time of Abraham, where the account becomes literal in my mind. Perhaps one day we will find evidence of a massive flood in ancient times, and I'll use miracles to explain the rest.

Jewish

L'chai-im

Eh lets just say I'm 'searching'. I got tired of the Christian faith mainly because I just cannot resolve the conflict in my mind that God would only allow one path to him, which would rule out 2/3rd of mankind to be damned in Hell. I mean even people like Ghandi, the Dalai Lama would go to Hell because they didn't choose the 'right' path.

Eh lets just say I'm 'searching'. I got tired of the Christian faith mainly because I just cannot resolve the conflict in my mind that God would only allow one path to him, which would rule out 2/3rd of mankind to be damned in Hell. I mean even people like Ghandi, the Dalai Lama would go to Hell because they didn't choose the 'right' path.

Only some Christian Churches do that. The Catholic Church (and most likely the Orthodox and Anglican Churches) do not teach that non-Christian cannot get to Heaven.

Only some Christian Churches do that. The Catholic Church (and most likely the Orthodox and Anglican Churches) do not teach that non-Christian cannot get to Heaven.

Trust me I was raised Catholic, my family is Catholic, they do teach that.

Only some Christian Churches do that. The Catholic Church (and most likely the Orthodox and Anglican Churches) do not teach that non-Christian cannot get to Heaven.


they don't even believe some Lutherans will go to heaven

I am Pastafarian
But not just any regular Pastafarian
For I am the future Pastafarian Pope of the Outer Planets for Eternity
And, as the future PPOPE, I will found the Holy Omniscient Pastafarian Empire, which shall take over the universe

All bow down to me, the future PPOPE and future founder of the all powerful HOPE

And it's true 'cause I said it was
And being the future PPOPE, I am obviously able to tell the future
And I'm able to tell the future 'cause I am the future PPOPE
Which I know because I can see into the future

Trust me I was raised Catholic, my family is Catholic, they do teach that.

Trust me, after going through Catholic school and being sent to a seminary, I know what I'm talking about on this. Most people (even most Catholics) probably believe what you say, however, officially the Church does not teach this. Those who try to live a good life and are not part of the Catholic Church through no fault of their own may still get to Heaven. Apostates and heretics who have been part of the Church but rejected it do not count for this, but if they repent, they can also enter into eternal life.

Errrr, republican wasn't a religion last time i checked and this is no place for Iraq war rantings :rolleyes:

I know republicanism isn't a religion; but the fact is, a lot of people, on hearing "Protestant", automatically think "oh, he's a conservative republican." I was just clarifying myself.

I'm Congregationalist, a sect of Protestantism.

Specifically, I belong to the UCC (as does Barrack Obama) It is a very liberal denomination, we welcome ANYONE. The official stance of the denomination is called "Open and Affirming". We don't turn people who are gay away at the door.

It was very interesting, last Sunday, I thought of NSG while I was in church. The minister was discussing how certain protestant groups pick and choose what parts of the Bible they believe should be followed to the letter (ie homosexuality or abortion) but ignore things like slavery was legal, and the norm, in fact some of the disciples owned slaves. "It says it in the bible, so it must be ok." Or...do those people cook their steaks to well done? It says you have to in the bible. Do you wear clothing made of blended material? That offends the Lord, according to the bible.

The "catch phrase" of the UCC is "God is still speaking". It means that though God spoke 2000 years ago and longer...He is still speaking and guiding us, in the manner that is appropriate today, in THIS time.

I believe because it's comforting to me...do I think that everyone needs to believe....nope. Basically, if you don't hurt me, I don't care what you do. I believe that Church and State should be separate. Don't tell me that you can't have a Christmas party in my kids school, then give them Good Friday off...I'm all about not having a party...or calling it something else...but lets not give a different religious holiday off. I think that living a Christian life revolves around "the golden rule" Do unto others...etc. You don't need to believe in God to live a good life. I choose to believe that when I die, I will go to Heaven. I live the best I can, and I try to treat everyone well.

I don't understand why religion needs to be a debate....You can believe or not believe to your hearts content, but why should you try to convince a believer not to believe, or vice versa? It doesn't make sense to me.

(I did get a laugh from my Catholic friend the other day, when we were discussing religion, and I repeated someone here that Catholics were Zombie worshiping cannibals...she hadn't thought of it like that. Most protestants believe that communion elements are SYMBOLS of the body and blood of Christ, where Catholics theoretically believe that the elements are consecrated INTO the body and blood of Christ.)

Wow, that was long winded...sorry about that. I think it's interesting to hear others beliefs, even if they aren't the same as my own

None

I'm Jewish, by the way.

Roman Catholic.

I hail from the esteemed religion, Noyabizzness.......I know, that was lame:(

Trust me, after going through Catholic school and being sent to a seminary, I know what I'm talking about on this. Most people (even most Catholics) probably believe what you say, however, officially the Church does not teach this. Those who try to live a good life and are not part of the Catholic Church through no fault of their own may still get to Heaven. Apostates and heretics who have been part of the Church but rejected it do not count for this, but if they repent, they can also enter into eternal life.

You're a priest?

I'm Congregationalist, a sect of Protestantism.

Specifically, I belong to the UCC (as does Barrack Obama) It is a very liberal denomination, we welcome ANYONE. The official stance of the denomination is called "Open and Affirming". We don't turn people who are gay away at the door.

It was very interesting, last Sunday, I thought of NSG while I was in church. The minister was discussing how certain protestant groups pick and choose what parts of the Bible they believe should be followed to the letter (ie homosexuality or abortion) but ignore things like slavery was legal, and the norm, in fact some of the disciples owned slaves. "It says it in the bible, so it must be ok." Or...do those people cook their steaks to well done? It says you have to in the bible. Do you wear clothing made of blended material? That offends the Lord, according to the bible.

The "catch phrase" of the UCC is "God is still speaking". It means that though God spoke 2000 years ago and longer...He is still speaking and guiding us, in the manner that is appropriate today, in THIS time.

I believe because it's comforting to me...do I think that everyone needs to believe....nope. Basically, if you don't hurt me, I don't care what you do. I believe that Church and State should be separate. Don't tell me that you can't have a Christmas party in my kids school, then give them Good Friday off...I'm all about not having a party...or calling it something else...but lets not give a different religious holiday off. I think that living a Christian life revolves around "the golden rule" Do unto others...etc. You don't need to believe in God to live a good life. I choose to believe that when I die, I will go to Heaven. I live the best I can, and I try to treat everyone well.

I don't understand why religion needs to be a debate....You can believe or not believe to your hearts content, but why should you try to convince a believer not to believe, or vice versa? It doesn't make sense to me.

(I did get a laugh from my Catholic friend the other day, when we were discussing religion, and I repeated someone here that Catholics were Zombie worshiping cannibals...she hadn't thought of it like that. Most protestants believe that communion elements are SYMBOLS of the body and blood of Christ, where Catholics theoretically believe that the elements are consecrated INTO the body and blood of Christ.)

Wow, that was long winded...sorry about that. I think it's interesting to hear others beliefs, even if they aren't the same as my own

It was a worthy the read.
Am I right in thinking that the UCC is a Unitarian denomination?

It was a worthy the read.
Am I right in thinking that the UCC is a Unitarian denomination?

United Church of Christ I think.......I have a friend who is one of those, they are interesting to me lately.

It was a worthy the read.
Am I right in thinking that the UCC is a Unitarian denomination?


Thank you...

I believe that we consider ourselves "close cousins" to the UU Church.

We are specifically a Christian church, not so much with bringing other aspects in. (my understanding of UU is that ideas are pulled from Wicca and other Earth religions as well as the Christian and Jewish faiths...although I could be wrong)

I don't remember if I posted in this thread, but I'm pagan with agnostic leanings on some of the particulars.

Trust me I was raised Catholic, my family is Catholic, they do teach that.

I was raised Catholic and was taught specifically that non Christians can get to Heaven.

United Church of Christ I think.......I have a friend who is one of those, they are interesting to me lately.


Yes, sorry...I forget that not everyone understands the letters I speak in.

UCC is United Church of Christ. It's a "democratic" religion, the National counsel votes on things, then the area conferences vote again, and finally the individual churches vote. The last issue that came to vote in my church was becoming "Open and Affirming" It is the policy of the Denomination, but each individual church can make their own decision. There are 2 UCC churches in my town, mine is open and affirming, the other is not. My minister is much more liberal that the other one. I like that we can make decisions that affect us.

I am thinking of leaving my denomination, but I guess I can basically be described as a fundamentalist Christian. I am searching out exactly what I am supposed to be doing right now, I have a feeling it's not all of the things I have been doing, but something different......which would require me leaving the denomination I belong to.

United Church of Christ I think.......I have a friend who is one of those, they are interesting to me lately.

Thank you...

I believe that we consider ourselves "close cousins" to the UU Church.

We are specifically a Christian church, not so much with bringing other aspects in. (my understanding of UU is that ideas are pulled from Wicca and other Earth religions as well as the Christian and Jewish faiths...although I could be wrong)

Thanks for clarifying. Hmm...I'll have to read up on this.

(Maybe) putting my neck on the block here, but I was raised Muslim. I'm familiar with a lot of Catholic practice though, as my mother's family is Catholic.

I am thinking of leaving my denomination, but I guess I can basically be described as a fundamentalist Christian. I am searching out exactly what I am supposed to be doing right now, I have a feeling it's not all of the things I have been doing, but something different......which would require me leaving the denomination I belong to.

There's nothing saying you can't visit different churches, talk to the members, and the pastor.

I got lucky, that the first church I went to in this area was a perfect fit. If I had gone to the other UCC church in town, I don't know if I would have stayed there.

I didn't go to church for years...probably 8 or more. When my daughter was born, I wanted her baptized. The minister told me he would do it, but I had to attend the church for a little while before he would do it. I figured I would go for a while, have her baptized, then fall into the C and E member (Christmas and Easter) I went to 2 or 3 services, and my daughter became critically ill. She spent 12 days in PICU. My minister came to the hospital every day and sat with me for at least 2 hours ever day. I was so impressed that he would take the time out for someone who had only just recently started attending his church that I decided to stay, and I'm glad I did. I live 1.5 hours away from my closest family member, and 2 hours away from my parents. When I need a sitter, no matter what time, I know I can call him.

You'll know what is right for you...and it might not be in the first place you look. Good luck finding what you need

(Maybe) putting my neck on the block here, but I was raised Muslim. I'm familiar with a lot of Catholic practice though, as my mother's family is Catholic.

So you're no longer Muslim?

Also, don't worry. We have our Islamophobes, but there are a few sane Muslim posters on here despite that.

So you're no longer Muslim?

Also, don't worry. We have our Islamophobes, but there are a few sane Muslim posters on here despite that.

No, I'm still Muslim. That was kind of confusing, I guess.

I'm a White Power National Socialist Odinist

My beliefs are somewhere between Agnosticism, Advaita and Vaishnavism.

I'm ignostic. There are things that are more important than the next person's sky-ghost. If I was religious, I'd either be a pagan of some sort or an Episcopal, but I can't be arsed. God(s) just don't matter all that much to me.

I screwed up with the poll, so just state your religion.

Feel free to ask people questions about their religion, but try to keep it civil. We have enough threads about whether or not there is a deity of some sort. I'd prefer we focus on other beliefs and practices.

I'm Jewish, by the way.

I am a Christian.

I am a Gnostic.

I believe in God, but believe that humans on earth (and specifically the religious leaders and the Church) have changed what the true meanings of the holy texts, purposely omitted certain books that conflicted with the story they wanted to tell, and have put together books to solidify their own power base here on earth.

I believe the church and holy people have purposely supressed holy scriptures that directly conflict with the story they are trying to tell, and their version of events.

I believe that there is only one God, and that God has made itself known to all peoples. Each group of people interpretted it differently. Some falsely believed a host of angels was a pantheon of gods, others believed that the other tribes around them followed a different god than theres did and that God commanded them to wage a neverending Jihad, and other such things.

I believe that most religious people now believe they are following the true path, but I do not believe that they are. I believe the pastors, rabbis, and clerics believe in what they are preaching, but I think that what they have been taught is false.

I'm not sure if that would make me a "true" Gnostic, but I do believe in reading the books for yourself, acumalating knowledge yourself and then making a decision. Blind faith is for children. When you grow up, you should want to know more about your faith, and satisfy that curiousity.

Finally another gnostic. Tell me though, do you beileve in the twelve AEon's which were central to the gnostic tradition around the second century, such as Sophia? You are however correct about your accessment of the power and the hidding of the truth. That part is completely in line with Gnosis.

Athiest.

Athiest.

I do not believe that Athieism is a religion.

My beliefs are somewhere between Agnosticism, Advaita and Vaishnavism.

Just say Hindu. You're confusing them :p

I do not believe that Athieism is a religion.

Then why do Atheists follow their non-belief in god so religiously?

Then why do Atheists follow their non-belief in god so religiously?

Because it takes more belief to believe in nothing than it does to believe in something?

I'm Jewish, by the way.

Me too! But I don't do a ton of practicing. I'm a major holiday Jew. :D

You're a priest?

Not yet, but I'm working on my undergraduate's degree and then I'll have 4 years at an advanced college of Theology before I'm ordained.

Not yet, but I'm working on my undergraduate's degree and then I'll have 4 years at an advanced college of Theology before I'm ordained.

Awesome. Good luck with that.

Hrm... never spoken to a priest in training before.

I'm a White Power National Socialist Odinist

So you're a white supremacist who perverts Asatru/Odinism teachings?

Because it takes more belief to believe in nothing than it does to believe in something?

No, that's mysticism. :p

Christian!:D

Muslim of the Sunni persuasion

I was born and raised an atheist. Good times.

Muslim of the Sunni persuasion

Salaam! Are you a bro or a sis?

La illahah illalah. Alhamdulillah there are other muslims on this site. I thought it was full of kufirs.

Catholic. The largest faith! Yay. It would have been bigger, except for those stupid protestants and Mormons.

Actually, if you want to divide Christianity into Catholicism and Protestantism, Islam is the biggest religion.

Salaam! Are you a bro or a sis?

La illahah illalah. Alhamdulillah there are other muslims on this site. I thought it was full of kufirs.

I am a brother. I dunno if you're just referring to all the atheists, but Christians and Jews are People of the Book, so it's not appropriate to call them kufaar.

I am a brother. I dunno if you're just referring to all the atheists, but Christians and Jews are People of the Book, so it's not appropriate to call them kufaar.


I know they are PoB, i was referring to all the atheists on here. Hopefully we can give them pure dawah and show them the beauty and the miracle of the Qur'an and Islam. :)

I know they are PoB, i was referring to all the atheists on here. Hopefully we can give them pure dawah and show them the beauty and the miracle of the Qur'an and Islam. :)

No offense, my friend, but we'll take about as well to you as we take to the Christian converters hereabouts. If you wanna hang around and talk, hang around and debate, or just hang around and lurk, we don't got a problem, but this whole converting thing is going nowhere fast. :p

I am a disciple of Christ.

Actually, if you want to divide Christianity into Catholicism and Protestantism, Islam is the biggest religion.

It makes no sense to divide Catholicism and Protestantism if you're not also going to divide Sunni and Shiite.

I am a brother. I dunno if you're just referring to all the atheists, but Christians and Jews are People of the Book, so it's not appropriate to call them kufaar.

Hey, I'm also a Muslim. Funny. Though my mother's side is Catholic and I grew up pretty much as an American, so I have a strange view of the whole thing.

So you're a white supremacist who perverts Asatru/Odinism teachings?

It certainly appears that way.

I know they are PoB, i was referring to all the atheists on here. Hopefully we can give them pure dawah and show them the beauty and the miracle of the Qur'an and Islam. :)

What about you, brother or sister? That's cool, I was just making sure. Cuz like all religions, we have our fair share of idiots who make stupid comments.

On a side note, I was pretty glad Jerry Falwell died. I dunno if that's religiously allowed or not, but I think he was pretty much a hateful son of a bitch who was making this planet worse one day at a time.

Hey, I'm also a Muslim. Funny. Though my mother's side is Catholic and I grew up pretty much as an American, so I have a strange view of the whole thing.

What's your ancestry?

What about you, brother or sister? That's cool, I was just making sure. Cuz like all religions, we have our fair share of idiots who make stupid comments.

On a side note, I was pretty glad Jerry Falwell died. I dunno if that's religiously allowed or not, but I think he was pretty much a hateful son of a bitch who was making this planet worse one day at a time.

I am a brother too. :)

What's your ancestry?

Palestinian on my father's side, American (northern European originally) on my mother's.

No offense, my friend, but we'll take about as well to you as we take to the Christian converters hereabouts. If you wanna hang around and talk, hang around and debate, or just hang around and lurk, we don't got a problem, but this whole converting thing is going nowhere fast.

You don't have to worry about me. I've given up on you crazy atheists! :headbang:

I definitely appreciate this thread being somewhat neutral, though a few people have thrown out some random cheap shots. Not that I myself am neutral, I have very strong beliefs, but faith is something personal between an individual and God, and you can't "convert" someone by the sword. You choose for yourself.

Palestinian on my father's side, American (northern European originally) on my mother's.



You don't have to worry about me. I've given up on you crazy atheists! :headbang:

tight, tight. brother or sister?

You don't have to worry about me. I've given up on you crazy atheists! :headbang:

Hey! Watch it! I'm not an atheist, I'm an ignostic. There's a big difference. They don't believe in God, I just don't care. :P

Hey! Watch it! I'm not an atheist, I'm an ignostic. There's a big difference. They don't believe in God, I just don't care. :P

Ah, point taken.

tight, tight. brother or sister?

Brother

Pastafarian

It makes no sense to divide Catholicism and Protestantism if you're not also going to divide Sunni and Shiite.

Well the thing is, in Christianity, it's a big deal. A lot of Protestants don't even consider Catholics to be Christians. That's why in statistics they always list it like that. For Muslims it's not so clear cut, because we don't have central leadership, and to us, above all, we are Muslims. Iraq is something different, where it's a cultural affiliation almost unique to that region in terms of the strife they experience, and it's something that wasn't a problem until Western intervention and oil artificially divided them into competing factions.

And also, in many cases (but not all) the only difference between a Shiite and a Sunni is that they disagree in terms of historical politics. Oftentimes there is no difference in how they practice the religion, though sometimes there is. The same cannot be said of Catholics and Protestants. Catholics have clear cut articles of faith that Protestants (no matter how Catholic they seem) can never fully fulfill.

cool cool, any of you kids have aim or msn?

Wouldn't that be apathist?

Nope. Ig frome Ignore. Ignostic, it's more similar to agnosticism than to atheism, because it neither presumes nor denies the existence of God, and so it doesn't qualify for the theist half of the word.

Of course, we get confused with the new Apple religious sect: the iGnostics all the time.

God Bless.

Well the thing is, in Christianity, it's a big deal. A lot of Protestants don't even consider Catholics to be Christians. That's why in statistics they always list it like that. For Muslims it's not so clear cut, because we don't have central leadership, and to us, above all, we are Muslims. Iraq is something different, where it's a cultural affiliation almost unique to that region in terms of the strife they experience, and it's something that wasn't a problem until Western intervention and oil artificially divided them into competing factions.

Maybe I'm just stupid, but hasn't there been war on and off between Sunni and Shia since basically the begining of Muslim history? Isn't the actual structure of the sects completely different (IE, Shia have the story of the 12th Imam as a doomsday/armageddon/ragnarok/thatsortathing beleif). We don't exactly get a lot on the history of Islam in American schools (particularly stupid, given that we currently have troops in two primarily Islamic nations), so I'm a bit ignorant on the subject.

Nope. Ig frome Ignore. Ignostic, it's more similar to agnosticism than to atheism, because it neither presumes nor denies the existence of God, and so it doesn't qualify for the theist half of the word.

Of course, we get confused with the new Apple religious sect: the iGnostics all the time.

No, I understood that, but I suppose I like the term apathist better. "Apathy" has more of a lack of care element to it while "ignore" is very deliberate. One is more passive than the other and I guess it just depends on what you mean.

No, I understood that, but I suppose I like the term apathist better. "Apathy" has more of a lack of care element to it while "ignore" is very deliberate. One is more passive than the other and I guess it just depends on what you mean.

I'd say to completely ignore the question of religion in this modern day and age, one has to try, don't they? It's not exactly like if you stop caring all the crazy preachers on TV, and all churches, mosques, temples, covens, and other religious groups dissapear. It's not like the door-to-door converters forget where your house is. :p

Well the thing is, in Christianity, it's a big deal. A lot of Protestants don't even consider Catholics to be Christians. That's why in statistics they always list it like that. For Muslims it's not so clear cut, because we don't have central leadership, and to us, above all, we are Muslims. Iraq is something different, where it's a cultural affiliation almost unique to that region in terms of the strife they experience, and it's something that wasn't a problem until Western intervention and oil artificially divided them into competing factions.

And also, in many cases (but not all) the only difference between a Shiite and a Sunni is that they disagree in terms of historical politics. Oftentimes there is no difference in how they practice the religion, though sometimes there is. The same cannot be said of Catholics and Protestants. Catholics have clear cut articles of faith that Protestants (no matter how Catholic they seem) can never fully fulfill.

I was raised Catholic (well, also Unitarian). It's actually much the same. For example, Anglicans are protestants, but much closer to Catholics in practice and belief than they are to many protestant groups.

In both cases, the relatively small differences seem to be enough to kill each other over.

Maybe I'm just stupid, but hasn't there been war on and off between Sunni and Shia since basically the begining of Muslim history? Isn't the actual structure of the sects completely different (IE, Shia have the story of the 12th Imam as a doomsday/armageddon/ragnarok/thatsortathing beleif). We don't exactly get a lot on the history of Islam in American schools (particularly stupid, given that we currently have troops in two primarily Islamic nations), so I'm a bit ignorant on the subject.

No, there hasn't been a war. And as for Shia, it originally was just a disagreement as to who should succeed to the Caliphate. Some Shia do have different theology from Sunnis, but not all. As I said, sometimes it's just a different historical viewpoint, but the tenets of faith they follow are the exact same. This isn't always true however, as some groups of Shia do have complex histories about "Imams" and such, such as Ismailis, Twelvers, Seveners, Fivers, etc. Shia is really just a grouping of people who don't agree with the Caliphate's succession historically, and then all ties end there. They might be the exact same as a Sunni, or very different, it just depends on the specific person you're talking to who happens to identify as a Shia. There are many different groups though. It's so complex almost no Muslim could tell you all there is to know about them, including Shias.

Maybe I'm just stupid, but hasn't there been war on and off between Sunni and Shia since basically the begining of Muslim history? Isn't the actual structure of the sects completely different (IE, Shia have the story of the 12th Imam as a doomsday/armageddon/ragnarok/thatsortathing beleif). We don't exactly get a lot on the history of Islam in American schools (particularly stupid, given that we currently have troops in two primarily Islamic nations), so I'm a bit ignorant on the subject.

There's been a schism since really early on, traditionally starting at about the death of Ali's son Hussein. The break isn't so much doctrinal as it is in the differences between Catholicism and different branches of Protestantism, though. As far as I know, it's more of a political/historical issue, and most Sunni and Shi'a still have a whole lot in common in terms of belief. I'm Sunni, by the way, but that's just a function of geography (i.e. there are really no Palestinian Shi'a.)

edit: There hasn't been a general war off and on, though. Any conflict today is a result of people using differences to start a war or the intervention of foreign powers.

No, there hasn't been a war. And as for Shia, it originally was just a disagreement as to who should succeed to the Caliphate. Some Shia do have different theology from Sunnis, but not all. As I said, sometimes it's just a different historical viewpoint, but the tenets of faith they follow are the exact same. This isn't always true however, as some groups of Shia do have complex histories about "Imams" and such, such as Ismailis, Twelvers, Seveners, Fivers, etc. Shia is really just a grouping of people who don't agree with the Caliphate's succession historically, and then all ties end there. They might be the exact same as a Sunni, or very different, it just depends on the specific person you're talking to who happens to identify as a Shia. There are many different groups though. It's so complex almost no Muslim could tell you all there is to know about them, including Shias.

Well there I go. Not only do they barely teach anything about the history of non-Christian nations in American schools, that which they do teach, they teach wrong. Figures. =/

I was raised Catholic (well, also Unitarian). It's actually much the same. For example, Anglicans are protestants, but much closer to Catholics in practice and belief than they are to many protestant groups.

In both cases, the relatively small differences seem to be enough to kill each other over.

Well, that's true, Anglicans are quite close to Catholicism, but they don't agree on all articles of faith required to be an actual Catholic. Sunnis and some Shia don't have set articles for themselves. For Sunni Muslims, and some Shia, they only must believe what Muslims in general must believe. Islam is a lot simpler than Christianity, and thus cannot be held to the same standards, which is why pollsters often don't.

Well the thing is, in Christianity, it's a big deal. A lot of Protestants don't even consider Catholics to be Christians. That's why in statistics they always list it like that. For Muslims it's not so clear cut, because we don't have central leadership, and to us, above all, we are Muslims. Iraq is something different, where it's a cultural affiliation almost unique to that region in terms of the strife they experience, and it's something that wasn't a problem until Western intervention and oil artificially divided them into competing factions.

And also, in many cases (but not all) the only difference between a Shiite and a Sunni is that they disagree in terms of historical politics. Oftentimes there is no difference in how they practice the religion, though sometimes there is. The same cannot be said of Catholics and Protestants. Catholics have clear cut articles of faith that Protestants (no matter how Catholic they seem) can never fully fulfill.

For some Protestants, the differences between them and the Catholic Church are probably greater than the difference between Sunni's and Shi'ites, but not all. For instance, Anglicanism, Orthodoxy, and Catholicism are all very closely related, and basically split for the same reason the branches of Islam split, over the succession and authority of our leader - The Pope in our case, the Caliph or whatever it was originally called in yours. The number of Anglicans, Orthodox and Catholics as of 2000 were still higher than Islam as a whole, I am not sure if that data is still correct, but Islam could not be much more numerous.

For some Protestants, the differences between them and the Catholic Church are probably greater than the difference between Sunni's and Shi'ites, but not all. For instance, Anglicanism, Orthodoxy, and Catholicism are all very closely related, and basically split for the same reason the branches of Islam split, over the succession and authority of our leader - The Pope in our case, the Caliph or whatever it was originally called in yours. The number of Anglicans, Orthodox and Catholics as of 2000 were still higher than Islam as a whole, I am not sure if that data is still correct, but Islam could not be much more numerous.

Well, no, because the Caliph was just like a King essentially. It was a political office. Islam in itself does not have a supreme religious leader. Which is why I said there is no real comparison lol.

Catholic. The largest faith! Yay. It would have been bigger, except for those stupid protestants and Mormons.

Its the largest denomination but NOT the largest faith. Now I know why catholics are not liked. They think they are superior to everyone.

Its the largest denomination but NOT the largest faith. Now I know why catholics are not liked. They think they are superior to everyone.

I think it was a joke. So, now you're the one who looks like an asshole.

Well, no, because the Caliph was just like a King essentially. It was a political office. Islam in itself does not have a supreme religious leader. Which is why I said there is no real comparison lol.

For a very long time, the office of the Pope was as political as it was religious.

I think it was a joke. So, now you're the one who looks like an asshole.

Joke or not, it is still a stupid thing to say.

Joke or not, it is still a stupid thing to say.

I thought it was funny, actually.

Well, no, because the Caliph was just like a King essentially. It was a political office. Islam in itself does not have a supreme religious leader. Which is why I said there is no real comparison lol.

At that point (The Great Schism, not the division with the Anglicans), the Pope was arguably the second most powerful man in Europe, behind the Byzantine Emperor, both of the splits at least had some political reasons. Compared to the Orthodox, we believe almost the exactly same things, with the exception of the primacy of the Pope. Our differences with the Anglicans are somewhat larger.

For a very long time, the office of the Pope was as political as it was religious.

that may be true, but the caliphate was never a religious office. it was his job to do things islamically, but he never had to be any kind of cleric. in fact, none of them were clerics as far as i know. and as i said, islam is much simpler. sects are artificial. all one has to do to be Muslim is follow the Qur'an (which says nothing about a Caliph), and most importantly, follow the Five Pillars. Catholics MUST accept the Pope as infallible to truly be a Catholic.

Well, that's true, Anglicans are quite close to Catholicism, but they don't agree on all articles of faith required to be an actual Catholic. Sunnis and some Shia don't have set articles for themselves. For Sunni Muslims, and some Shia, they only must believe what Muslims in general must believe. Islam is a lot simpler than Christianity, and thus cannot be held to the same standards, which is why pollsters often don't.

Their only difference is really political. The differences between Catholics and Anglicans are so tiny that a Catholic and an Anglican would each be quite familiar with the order of the service of the other.

And you keep saying "some." Catholics and some Protestants are very similar, almost identical. See? The same phrasing works with both of them.

For a very long time, the office of the Pope was as political as it was religious.

Technically the Pope still holds the political office of Head of State of the Vatican City with full control of its citizenship of around 100 people :p He would have even more power now if the Papal States had not been conquered, so it wasn't specifically a decision to lessen the Pope's political authority on the Church's part, but the fact that they didn't have any armies or lands to give him.

Technically the Pope still holds the political office of Head of State of the Vatican City with full control of its citizenship of around 100 people :p He would have even more power now if the Papal States had not been conquered, so it wasn't specifically a decision to lessen the Pope's political authority on the Church's part, but the fact that they didn't have any armies or lands to give him.

Well yes, obviously. I didn't state the mechanism for his role being different today than it was for most of post-Roman history.

Their only difference is really political. The differences between Catholics and Anglicans are so tiny that a Catholic and an Anglican would each be quite familiar with the order of the service of the other.

And you keep saying "some." Catholics and some Protestants are very similar, almost identical. See? The same phrasing works with both of them.

Well, my point is, because of a lack of central leadership in Islam, one can call oneself a Shia or a Sunni and worship the exact same way. For many Shia there is no set doctrine they must follow other than what every Muslim must follow. While Anglicanism and Catholicism are very close, they do have set laws that bodies pass. For instance in Catholicism, it is a mortal sin to miss church without a good reason, but the same cannot be said for Anglicanism, because that idea was set in Church Law after the split with the Anglican Church. In Islam, there is no such set of Canon Laws.e

The overall point is, there is overlap, and one cannot exactly say who is Sunni and who is Shia at all points. There is no registry, no membership, and a Muslim can worship in any mosque he wishes, regardless of whether Shia or Sunnis predominantly attend that mosque. While in Christianity, one could probably walk into any church they want and watch, the mass or service is not always the same, and Catholics and Anglicans, despite how close they are, cannot take communion in the other's church.

I screwed up with the poll, so just state your religion.

Feel free to ask people questions about their religion, but try to keep it civil. We have enough threads about whether or not there is a deity of some sort. I'd prefer we focus on other beliefs and practices.

I'm Jewish, by the way.

I hope to convert to Judaism soon. Until then, I never really had ANY religion.

Well, my point is, because of a lack of central leadership in Islam, one can call oneself a Shia or a Sunni and worship the exact same way. For many Shia there is no set doctrine they must follow other than what every Muslim must follow. While Anglicanism and Catholicism are very close, they do have set laws that bodies pass. For instance in Catholicism, it is a mortal sin to miss church without a good reason, but the same cannot be said for Anglicanism, because that idea was set in Church Law after the split with the Anglican Church. In Islam, there is no such set of Canon Laws.

Missing church is a mortal sin? Lol, you haven't met very many Catholics, have you?

Anglicans and Catholics do worship in the same way. The differences are pretty much all in leadership. The actual mass is pretty much the same.

Missing church is a mortal sin? Lol, you haven't met very many Catholics, have you?

Anglicans and Catholics do worship in the same way. The differences are pretty much all in leadership. The actual mass is pretty much the same.

I used to be Catholic. Canon Law states that missing church is a mortal sin, regardless of who knows it, believes it, or follows that rule. I learned that when I was 12 years old. And while those two sects may worship similarly, for instance, the doctrine of Transubstantiation is not accepted in the Anglican Church. Catholics cannot take communion in Anglican Churches, and Anglicans cannot take it in Catholic Churches.

I used to be Catholic. Canon Law states that missing church is a mortal sin, regardless of who knows it, believes it, or follows that rule. I learned that when I was 12 years old. And while those two sects may worship similarly, for instance, the doctrine of Transubstantiation is not accepted in the Anglican Church. Catholics cannot take communion in Anglican Churches, and Anglicans cannot take it in Catholic Churches.

You keep mentioning "in practice." Well, I'm telling it like it is in practice. Most Catholics probably go to church little more than two times a year. The 'canon law' may read differently, but you'd have a hard time convincing all those catholics that they're going to hell.

I've been to the mass of both. They're the same. A lot of the songs are even the same.

In practice, for the common church-going Catholic or Anglican, the two are the same.

You keep mentioning "in practice." Well, I'm telling it like it is in practice. Most Catholics probably go to church little more than two times a year. The 'canon law' may read differently, but you'd have a hard time convincing all those catholics that they're going to hell.

Similarly, I've been to the mass of both. They're the same. A lot of the songs are even the same.

In practice, for the common church-going Catholic or Anglican, the two are the same.

That's not my point. My point is, one who follows those respective faiths is SUPPOSED to believe what their own faith says.

In Islam, there is NO SUCH CANON found among Shia or Sunnis, and those arose purely out of politics.

And Transubstantiation is a big deal in Catholicism. It's why they go to Adoration and worship in front of the Host (bread). My mother wouldn't go at 9 pm every Sunday to Adoration if she didn't believe Christ was present in that bread. And Anglicans don't.

I was raised Atheist.

I am Atheist, Pantheist, or UU depending on my mood. I feel that all these labels really describe the same thing, just emphasizing a different draw for (non)religion. When I'm "Atheist" I'm feeling more scientific, when I'm "Pantheist" I'm feeling more spiritual, and when I'm "UU" I'm feeling more humanitarian. I occasionally attend UU services or Quaker meetings. (The Unitarians, Universalists, and Quakers almost united before the Unitarians and Universalists united. The UUs and the Quakers really just have different worship types. Both have Christian roots, and both have pagan and atheist members nowadays.)

I don't believe in any gods. I feel that religion fullfills a certain awe for the universe and a need for security. I cannot ignore the logic of the scientific stance that there is no security other that that which we make for ourselves, however, I am very awed by the universe. I feel that the sum of the universe is more than the parts which make it up. For me that does not mean a god, but the principle of emergence. The universe has become so complex that it is self-organizing, and the interactions between the parts are as important as the parts themselves. I believe that the universe is so complex it CAN never be fully comprehended by humans, except on a "spiritual", gestalt level. The more you know, the more you know you don't know. For me, this awesome complexity is enough; gods are simplistic in comparison. It is more amazing to me that the complexity of the universe came to exist by a single random event and a whole lot of cause and effect, than to diminish it (to me) by ascribing it all to a god.

I suppose you could say I'm Atheist not so much because I reject God but because I believe the secular universe transcends God. That's why I am no longer comfortable with simply being an Atheist and have seeked out other labels.

To the person who wanted more sources for Pantheism: look at pantheism.net (http://pantheism.net) (my favorite), pantheist.net (http://pantheist.net), Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pantheism/) and there are several meetup groups (http://meetup.com). The Brights (http://www.the-brights.net/) might be of interest as well if you are more atheist leaning.

I hope to convert to Judaism soon.For what reason? And for what purpose?

I know republicanism isn't a religion; but the fact is, a lot of people, on hearing "Protestant", automatically think "oh, he's a conservative republican." I was just clarifying myself.

Fair do's.:)

i'm not a religeon, i'm an awairness. i believe there are other awairnessess. you might be one of them. i believe there are, or at least may be, nontangable ones just as there are tangable ones such as ourselves.

i've even gotten the distinct impression, entirely outside of the coerciveness of human society, of something big, friendly and nontangable, that is under no obligation to bear the slightest resemblence to anything anyone, myself included, thinks they know about it.

i don't believe in the need for it to be infallable, and i certainly don't believe it needs to be infallable to exist.

nor that its existence, in any way absolves us of the simple reality that we live in a world that is neither more nor less messed up then our collective thoughtlessness makes it.

i have always felt the closest to this spirituality when alone. espcialy out in the woods somewhere.

little friendly and nontangable are cool friends to have too. and i've neither felt nor experienced any sort of conflict or jelousy between them and that big whatever it is.

so i've made a kind of tokonoma for them too. where the're always welcome to stop by in my home. it isn't based entirely on any one conventional belief either. but fallows a general pattern of symbolisms, and offerings. a glass of water generaly. and sparkley garlands to make it look pretty.

=^^=
.../\...

The Church of the Short-lived Shark-Jesus:p

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6681793.stm

I was raised Roman Catholic.
But luckily I have no need for religion in my philosophy of life, so people might call me an Atheist (although I prefer "rational").
If following a religion became compulsory and I couldn't get away with Pastafarianism I'd probably try Buddhism.

Discordian FTW!

That's not my point. My point is, one who follows those respective faiths is SUPPOSED to believe what their own faith says.

In Islam, there is NO SUCH CANON found among Shia or Sunnis, and those arose purely out of politics.

And Transubstantiation is a big deal in Catholicism. It's why they go to Adoration and worship in front of the Host (bread). My mother wouldn't go at 9 pm every Sunday to Adoration if she didn't believe Christ was present in that bread. And Anglicans don't.

Most Catholics don't do the whole 'adoration' thing.

And the split between Anglicans and Catholics was due entirely to politics. Pretty much because Henry VIII of England was mad that the Pope wouldn't annul his marriage.

You don't need to tell me what the host is. You seem to be assuming that I retained none of the things I was told in sunday school (not that I believe any of them anymore, anyway, though).

In practice, the two denominations are virtually identical. To say that there is any real difference between them besides politics is just stupid. The Anglican church exists only because of politics. Henry VIII was a staunch Catholic before getting mad over not being able to annul his marriage. Without that reason to split, he would probably have continued to be.

Well the thing is, in Christianity, it's a big deal. A lot of Protestants don't even consider Catholics to be Christians. That's why in statistics they always list it like that.

I've never, ever heard that Protestants don't consider Catholics to be Christian...my understanding is that one who worships Christ is a Christian. All Catholics are Christian, not all Christians are Catholic.

Something to consider, for everyone who is debating on largest denomination, is that if you EVER were baptized in a Catholic church, you are on the "rolls" as a Catholic, even if you have fallen away, or moved to a different denomination, or whatever. The actual number of Catholics is probably quite lower than what the Vatican claims. As there is no "central office" for Protestants, there is no comprehensive "list" (basically numbers) so a census type thing would be taken from individual churches rolls. While they might contain people who have fallen away, very often, protestant churches cull their rolls, because it's expensive to do all the mailings and such to members who aren't active, and won't be active. It's a more accurate representation.

For example...my husband would still be counted among Catholics, even though he no longer practices, and is a member at our church, which is protestant. My parents, who are no longer members of any church, would not be counted, since the church they once belonged to has culled them from the roll. (though again, it would be an inaccurate count, because my parents still consider themselves protestant people, they just don't go to church.)

I was raised a Methodist, but now I follow great-grandfather's religion, Tsa-la-gi e-lo (Traditional Cherokee).

Non Religious

Raised Roman Catholic, but I'm an Irish Pagan

I've never, ever heard that Protestants don't consider Catholics to be Christian...my understanding is that one who worships Christ is a Christian. All Catholics are Christian, not all Christians are Catholic.


Some Southern Baptists, at the very least, don't consider Catholics to be Christian. In some parts of the South, strong anti-Catholic sentiments still exist. Of course, that doesn't mean all Protestants don't consider them Christian, or even that all Southern Baptists don't. There's just a lot of bad blood down here.

Some Southern Baptists, at the very least, don't consider Catholics to be Christian. In some parts of the South, strong anti-Catholic sentiments still exist. Of course, that doesn't mean all Protestants don't consider them Christian, or even that all Southern Baptists don't. There's just a lot of bad blood down here.

I agree, as a Catholic living in the south with most of my neighbors being Baptist, there are definitely some who do not consider us to be Christian, but by no means all of them are like this.

Some Southern Baptists, at the very least, don't consider Catholics to be Christian. In some parts of the South, strong anti-Catholic sentiments still exist. Of course, that doesn't mean all Protestants don't consider them Christian, or even that all Southern Baptists don't. There's just a lot of bad blood down here.

that would explain it, as I am in New England, so I don't see the animosity of the Southern Baptists toward the Catholics. In fact, I was a minority growing up....and I was so jealous that the kids that went to Holy Angels got to take a BUS to CCD after school, and all I got to do was go to Sunday School.

I'm a Raëlian

See www.rael.org

Discordian FTW!

Me too! (Die heretic scum!) My holy name and titles: St. 3rd class crazyeddie the Perfect Sane, K.S.C., Episkopos of the Divine Fools' Cabal, Pope of Discordia.

I see that there is a lot of Pastafarians around here. Your one joke religion pales in comparison to the omni-humorous religion of Discordianism! You must be destroyed! Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!

*sings*
"Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Muslims,
And eeeeeeverybody hates the Jews!"

"Onward Christian Soldiers,
Onward Buddhist Priests,
Onward Fruits of Islam,
Fight 'til you're deceased!

Fight your little battles,
Join in thickest fray
For the Greater Glory,
Of Dis-Cord-I-A!"

There is one area I have not resolved - the Flood. On the one hand, modern science has no evidence for the Flood, and there is no way that seven pairs of each bird species, seven pairs of each kosher animal, and two pairs of each non-kosher animal (NOT one pair of each) could have fit on a boat constructed by human beings. On the other hand, the Flood is very close, chronologically, to the time of Abraham, where the account becomes literal in my mind. Perhaps one day we will find evidence of a massive flood in ancient times, and I'll use miracles to explain the rest.

I'm assuming that God could play games with geometry and pop some of the cargo into Hammerspace, but that much (or small) of a population bottleneck would have left a mark in the genetics of all animal land species, wouldn't it? Also, since Genesis, according to tradition, was written by Moses, it would have been written centuries after Abraham. I see the account of Abraham as being legendary (rooted in actual events, but with a lot of noise in the message - think King Arthur), while anything before Abraham is purely mythical. Since I'm not a Christian (anymore), that's an outside view.

I don't understand why religion needs to be a debate....You can believe or not believe to your hearts content, but why should you try to convince a believer not to believe, or vice versa? It doesn't make sense to me.

Well, for Christians and most other religions, you believe the wrong thing, you're going to have an unpleasant afterlife. If you can bring someone around to your way of thinking, then by your beliefs, you're doing them a massive favor. On the atheist side, the basic argument is best summed up in a philosophical paper called "The Ethics of Belief." Google it and it'll come right up. The gist of the argument is that wrong belief can lead to actions that are unethical, that can hurt yourself and others. Therefore, we have the moral duty to only believe things that are probably correct. Myself, I think the guy took the argument a little far, but...

A lot of people are running around with odd beliefs (and for philosophers, belief means all beliefs, including things like "my hand exists, and is currently attached to my body", not just religious dogmas). Global warming doesn't exist, 9/11 was an inside job, AIDS is caused by tuberculosis and not HIV, AIDS is curable by having sex with virgins... Do you think people who believe such things shouldn't be confronted and debated with? Or do you really believe that people should be allowed to believe anything they feel like, logic and evidence be damned? Or are you saying that some class of "weird" beliefs should be allowed to slide by, but others are fair game?

Raised Roman Catholic, but I'm an Irish Pagan

Awesome.

Awesome.

:)

skipping past a loooong thread of topicvs, there... I'll just go on and say:

Christian-buddhist-Pagan


... since I'm a Gemini and so quite naturally am very full of the whole "wanderlust" (basically, I can't keep myself to clear of standing on the spot etc). I was born into a Catholic family, most've who hate Potestants (naturally), and even though we fled Ireland for all that; I ain't taken on that natural hate. Because I'm just not natural. :p

Anywho, I never rerally belived in my first religion too much, because I couldn't believe in one god who was justly and Honorable, and I cdon't beleive in just heaven and hell.

Since I was very young, I believed that everyone has a chance to clamber up from the spouts of hell, or to leave heaven to return to earth. Basically, from about the age of five, I just out of the blue believed in Reincarnation (long before reading or even hearing about buddhism, reincarnation, or Paganism).

Plus, I believe that Paganism and buddhism should be the founding religions, because of the neutral beliefs, rather than the main ones we have niowadays.

Take for exampler, Christanity. As a whole, between the old and new testament, there's probablty been quite a lot of lies, half-truths, and myth.
I haven't read the Bible in years. I don't even remember finishing it. However, what I do know form the bible, is that god loves us all, if we go to church a lot. But I just don't feel right with that.

Grudamn for these rants of mine. I like to blow of steam, and get some of this stuff out. see what I mean? :rolleyes:

I have no religion.

I refuse to answer "Athiest" as my religion. It's not a religion, so stop acting like it is.

I have no religion.

I refuse to answer "Athiest" as my religion. It's not a religion, so stop acting like it is.

Well it's as much based on faith as any religion...

Well it's as much based on faith as any religion...

What?
"Faith that the faithful beleivers
will see into the "truth"
and unbelieve unfaithfully"?

What?
"Faith that the faithful beleivers
will see into the "truth"
and unbelieve unfaithfully"?

Faith that there is no deity.
There is no proof against the existence of God just as much as there is no proof for.

That's why I'm agnostic :)

i believe athiesm is a religion because it is a set of beliefs. example- the belief that their is no god

Unbelieve faithfully. You cannot have two negative prefixes, it just screws up the whole thing.

Anyways. I am intrigued by Islam to the point of wanting to learn Arabic, so I am an agnostic, leaning Islamic, and probably minutes away from attesting that there is no God but God, and Mohammed is his Prophet. I can let you know how that turns out.

Faith that there is no deity.
There is no proof against the existence of God just as much as there is no proof for.

That's why I'm agnostic :)That's only because there is no definition of god and thus it is not defined what to look for at all.
However, there is a considerable lack of evidence for the worship of the biblical god prior to the Persian era, and there is evidence that back then and in the centuries after some "scholars" assembled a god idea out of earlier, non-Jewish, traditions. Would that count as evidence against the biblical god in your understanding?

Well it's as much based on faith as any religion...No. It can also be the absence of faith.

yes, god is just a charactor made up by humans to sheild them from the unknown.

One of the greatest fears humans have is the fear of the unknown. Creating a god answers these questions.

How was the earth created?
how were humans created?
ect...


which is somewhat very ignorant..:(