NationStates Jolt Archive

OK so I watched this documentry on BBC2 and well...as I watched it I got more and more angry.

I might not be a fan of the military or war but people who have fought and serve do get my respect.

I never knew things were this bad. Our last military hospital is being closed. And we are in a war.

These soldiers are promised priority treatment in the NHS...yet don't get it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/power_to_the_people/6613759.stm

Power To The People: The Battle of Trafalgar Square
Power to the People is a three-part series of mischievous documentaries presented by Tim Samuels, who helps some of the most disenfranchised people in society make their voice heard.


Trafalgar Square being "attacked" by platoon
The Battle of Trafalgar Square
Monday 21 May 2007
2100 BST on BBC Two

Tim Samuels joins a specially formed platoon of former soldiers, who believe they have been cast aside after fighting for Britain, to see them pull off one last daring operation.

The Platoon's mission is to invade Trafalgar Square dressed in full military uniform and put up their own giant statue right in front of Nelson's column to honour our abandoned war heroes.

Tim's platoon includes soldiers with shocking tales of neglect who fought in the Falklands right up to those just back from Iraq.

Denzil Connick - one of the platoon soldiers - served in the Falklands Conflict, and his leg was blown off the day before the ceasefire. Twenty-three of his comrades were killed during the same battle. Denzil is still waiting for his latest leg operation. He feels he has been let down by his country.

Scott Garthley served in Iraq. His injuries included spinal fusion and PTSD, yet when he was rushed to an A&E NHS hospital in the middle of the night, the first thing he was told to do was remove his uniform in case he offended anyone.

He was told there were no beds, given a walking stick and told to go and see his GP.

Military hospitals

We used to have 11 military hospitals in the UK, but this year the last one - the Royal Haslar near Portsmouth - is closing. Injured soldiers returning home from war now either go to one unit in Selly Oak NHS Hospital in Birmingham, or to an NHS hopsital that specialises in the treatment they need.

Soldiers erecting statue
Sculptor James Napier made the statue for the abandoned soldiers
Meanwhile the US army may be six times the size of ours but the Americans have far more than six times the hospitals for their returning troops. In fact, they have a staggering 87 military hospitals for serving soldiers and a further 154 hospitals just for veterans.

We have that one unit at Selly Oak, one dedicated rehab centre, and some regional outposts. And for our veterans - well, they have to rely on charities and the NHS.

Somewhere along the line an awful lot of ex-soldiers fall between the cracks: many of the homeless in Britain are ex-forces.

The programme is a deeply moving journey for the soldiers who feel abandoned by their country, and who want to achieve a moment to honour their own by seizing Trafalgar Square and erecting a statue.

Tim Samuels also has some questions for Veterans Minister Derek Twigg.

Few things move me to tears. This did.

How can we call our Army the best in the world if we can't even look after our own.

The treatment of the Gurkha's is also atrocious given the history of Nepal and Britain.

This was awful. Unlike RC, I'm a great fan of the British Army, and I would have hoped the neglect of wounded soldiers was something abandoned after the treatment of post-Great War soldiers. It brought to mind a Wilfred Owen poem, the name of which is beyond me...

N

This was awful. Unlike RC, I'm a great fan of the British Army, and I would have hoped the neglect of wounded soldiers was something abandoned after the treatment of post-Great War soldiers. It brought to mind a Wilfred Owen poem, the name of which is beyond me...

N

No no...you misunderstand.

I do not like the military (read MoD).

I have a great deal of respect for the British Army, Navy and Air Force.

I am however incredibly pissed off.

More power to them. They did a service for their country, now their country must do it's service for them.

How they can be neglected and forgotten like that is criminal.

No no...you misunderstand.

I do not like the military (read MoD).

I have a great deal of respect for the British Army, Navy and Air Force.

I am however incredibly pissed off.

No, I did. I realised my post didn't read correctly, I'm just too tired to change it....:D

More power to them. They did a service for their country, now their country must do it's service for them.

How they can be neglected and forgotten like that is criminal.

Hear Hear!

No, I did. I realised my post didn't read correctly, I'm just too tired to change it....:D

Yeah no worries...

I didn't see it but the treatment of our soldiers is disgusting. We have a government that's more than willing to throw billions hosting the olympics, going to war just to crawl up Bush's arse, spending money on housing for every foreign extremists that moves here, ect. But they've never been willing to give our troops adequate care. The government = bunch of fucking traitors.

I agree it is something that should be dealt with. I'm definitely not moved to tears by it anymore than I am by stories of civilians having problems with the NHS

welcome to budget cuts and the public being well the public

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;12677337']spending money on housing for every foreign extremists that moves here,

here we go :rolleyes:

Pfft, people who are soldiers shouldn't be placed above other people.

If it ain't an emergency, they can damn well get in line.

Pfft, people who are soldiers shouldn't be placed above other people.

If it ain't an emergency, they can damn well get in line.

I agree

here we go :rolleyes:
Sorry about that, that was just me rambling on, didn't mean to try and hijack the thread or anything. And no need to roll eyes, very rude.

Pfft, people who are soldiers shouldn't be placed above other people.

If it ain't an emergency, they can damn well get in line.

pretty much, yup. although if they need a transplant as a result of injuries sustained or conditions experienced in the line of service then the government has an obligation to at least bump them up the list. same goes for any public servant i'd say, there's nothing special about being a soldier.

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;12677430']no need to roll eyes, very rude.

talk of Britain being some happy land for extremists, unless of course its in the mirror merits a :rolleyes:

Well, you know those that do fall through the cracks do so because they have no applicable training to put to use back in society. The engineers, techies, etc etc seem to do fine.

It's always been like that, nothing tremendously new about it.

Well, you know those that do fall through the cracks do so because they have no applicable training to put to use back in society. The engineers, techies, etc etc seem to do fine.

It's always been like that, nothing tremendously new about it.

We had eleven military hospitals. We now have one left that is closing. Civilian hospitals are not suited to soldiers.

The engineers and techies also seem to all between the cracks. You are right though...there is little time for them to readjust into civvie life.

It is obscene that these people are willing to, and have made, massive sacrafices...up and including the ultimate one...yet they end up on the street or just forgotten.

The bottom line is however very simple.

When they get their medical discharge they are given a letter stating that they will get priority in the NHS. And it does not happen.

What a obscene thing to do to someone who has become an amputee or suffered 80% burns serving their country.

Why did I cry? At the end of the docu when they raised the statue....their dignity is what kicked off the tears.

Civilian hospitals are not suited to soldiers.


Wait, what? D'you mean because of the already burdened NHS or because they don't fit in well?

Well, you know those that do fall through the cracks do so because they have no applicable training to put to use back in society.

I've never really understood why this happens, every soldier gets the chance to learn new skills and is encouraged too, yet you still see guys who just haven't bothered to do so

though by all means a soldier who has spent his adult life in the military may find it hard to adjust

Above make such a stupid decision, it's really quite an odd thing to do.

The British have always had a large/powerful/assertive army. What could they benefit by doing this?

The British have always had a large/powerful/assertive army. What could they benefit by doing this?

...um :confused:

Wait, what? D'you mean because of the already burdened NHS or because they don't fit in well?

From what I understand soldiers would rather be treated in a soldierly environment.

I've never really understood why this happens, every soldier gets the chance to learn new skills and is encouraged too, yet you still see guys who just haven't bothered to do so

though by all means a soldier who has spent his adult life in the military may find it hard to adjust

Thing is though that while you are correct regarding trades it does not encompass social skills.

Given that the majority injury is PTSD it makes interfacing with civvies rather hard for some.

From what I understand soldiers would rather be treated in a soldierly environment.

pfft thats no excuse for anything

Given that the majority injury is PTSD it makes interfacing with civvies rather hard for some.

there are many charitable support groups for PTSD and huge amounts of money comes from soldiers donations to pay for this, if anything the problem of PTSD manifests itself much later in people who think they can deal with the problem by themselves

FYI: no the main injury sustained in military service is back and knee problems, this is largely due to idiots not lifting correctly and generally getting into bad habits

pfft thats no excuse for anything

I don't see how that can be called an excuse.

there are many charitable support groups for PTSD and huge amounts of money comes from soldiers donations to pay for this, if anything the problem of PTSD manifests itself much later in people who think they can deal with the problem by themselves

Errr...many times they don't even know why they have violent mood swings. They are soldiers...not medicos...

FYI: no the main injury sustained in military service is back and knee problems, this is largely due to idiots not lifting correctly and generally getting into bad habits

FYI this thread is about combat vets. Sorry if it was not clear enough.

FYI this thread is about combat vets. Sorry if it was not clear enough.

Call to Power -

Sorry about that...I did not realise the docu also had people who were injured outside of military actions...(wellmore like remembered...it was quite late when I posted that...)

So yeah...the main injury is not PTSD...

My mistake. Apologies.

there's nothing special about being a soldier.

Yeah. Not like the guys who saves Europe from the Nazis should be thanked or anything...

pretty much, yup. although if they need a transplant as a result of injuries sustained or conditions experienced in the line of service then the government has an obligation to at least bump them up the list. same goes for any public servant i'd say, there's nothing special about being a soldier.

They wouldn't be waiting if the rest of the public wasn't waiting too :p They're not the only ones getting screwed over!

Yeah. Not like the guys who saves Europe from the Nazis should be thanked or anything...

Yeah, because those Nazis didn't have any soldiers, duh!

You're honestly going to tell me that these soldiers should get priority over the people who actually build society? You know, like those cooks that feed the soldiers? Or the farmers who grow the food they eat? Or the doctors who treat them?

Man, I thought the U.S. treated our soldiers badly when they returned. It is a shame that volunteers fighting in a war get treated in such a poor manner. This is why one one of my nephews mentioned to me about joining the army I sat down with him and gave him the facts about what is happening. After a good three hour conversation he decided not to join the service.

Yeah, because those Nazis didn't have any soldiers, duh!

You're honestly going to tell me that these soldiers should get priority over the people who actually build society? You know, like those cooks that feed the soldiers? Or the farmers who grow the food they eat? Or the doctors who treat them?

Yes! Without the soldiers, they'd all be speaking Arabic, Turkish, German or Russian right now. Whichever you prefer.

Yes! Without the soldiers, they'd all be speaking Arabic, Turkish, German or Russian right now. Whichever you prefer.

this somehow makes soldiers better then your common man?

Yes! Without the soldiers, they'd all be speaking Arabic, Turkish, German or Russian right now. Whichever you prefer.

And without the doctors, engineers, farmers, even the binmen, all those soldiers wouldn't have had the resources to fight. They would have lost

Whatever. Who cares.

Whatever. Who cares.

If you comment on it you obviously care to some degree

If you comment on it you obviously care to some degree

Nah. Just trying make objective chatter.

Yes! Without the soldiers, they'd all be speaking Arabic, Turkish, German or Russian right now. Whichever you prefer.

Zomg! So, you mean, soldiers do as much as your regular farmer / doctor?

You don't say! :eek:

this somehow makes soldiers better then your common man?

They sacrificed their well-being for the common man, hence, they are more deserving.

They sacrificed their well-being for the common man, hence, they are more deserving.

I'm sceptical as to whether anyone does anything for such selfless reasons

They sacrificed their well-being for the common man, hence, they are more deserving.

They voluntarily did so, hence, they are not more deserving.

They voluntarily did so, hence, they are not more deserving.

Yes they are. They are heroes, as opposed to the majority of Britain, and deserve the gratitude of the country. Which ought to involve preferential treatment, given that the "common man" failed to volunteer in any case.

They sacrificed their well-being for the common man, hence, they are more deserving.

unfortunately we live in a society where should (almost) be equal, just because you fought in a conflict doesn't mean you become a higher class of person

unless of course I've slipped back to the 14th century again :confused:

unfortunately we live in a society where should (almost) be equal, just because you fought in a conflict doesn't mean you become a higher class of person

unless of course I've slipped back to the 14th century again :confused:

There is, unfortunately enough for you I fear, a difference, between a different class of person, and one's simply being more deserving of the state's aid than another due to what one has done.

There is, unfortunately enough for you I fear, a difference, between a different class of person, and one's simply being more deserving of the state's aid than another due to what one has done.

So if someone does something for society they should be granted preference?

Yes they are. They are heroes, as opposed to the majority of Britain, and deserve the gratitude of the country. Which ought to involve preferential treatment, given that the "common man" failed to volunteer in any case.

The more you argue this, the less I'm going to argue that soldiers are equals.

I will not generally consider soldiers to be above farmers, butchers, bakers, doctors, engineers, scientists, writers, nurses, firemen, police officers, etc...

Yes they are. They are heroes, as opposed to the majority of Britain, and deserve the gratitude of the country. Which ought to involve preferential treatment, given that the "common man" failed to volunteer in any case.

they fought for democracy and equality not some military state where only those who do military service are citizens

as such I don't give a damn what war they fought in they are not super humans nor do they want to be (also all British citizens are Heroes for they are the blood that oils the machine, and represent the ideas of which the nation exists)

one's simply being more deserving of the state's aid than another due to what one has done.

no a soldier isn't a selfish individual by nature nor does a soldier wish to be elevated above others

nor does what someone has done qualify them for special treatment we are born human and we die human

I think this is a bloody national disgrace. Haslar is an exemplary hospital, used not just by the military, but the local population as well, to close it is disgusting, and the fact that we have no other dedicated military hospitals is shameful. Our country should value it's military, we surely would if we were ever in need of their services to defend our homes and way of life. The government should pull out of this embarrassing terrorist making debacle in Iraq and get some money into rebuilding the military and the NHS too, shame on us all.