NationStates Jolt Archive

With the realease of Starcraft 2 announced and the new dawn of war on its way and a host of other good rts games out there I pose this question to NSG users,Which ones better?

I'm talking series here,not specific game.

I'm pulling for my champion ever since I was 8,Starcraft.

Blizzard.com (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wikipedia+starcraft) could change their name to Midas.com

It would be more appropriate. ;)

Dawn of War all the way. Starcraft is a 40k rip-off.

I love the Command and Conquer series as I do Warhammer. Haven't played Company of Heroes too much, but it looks pretty good.

But my favorite remains Starcraft.

company of heroes is GOOD. but new Dawn of War - havnt heard of it.

Dawn of War all the way. Starcraft is a 40k rip-off.

Even so,I'm talking about gameplay here.

company of heroes is GOOD. but new Dawn of War - havnt heard of it.

Well,if you beat Dark Crusade,it says something about a game in 2007.

Starcraft is a 40k rip-off.

:eek: Starcraft is no rip off, and besides have you seen the screen shots for SC2... just plain awesome. They have one of the classic 200 zerglings vs 10 marines and two bunkers shot. Wonder who wins that :rolleyes:
Too bad they are going to shut down the old starcraft severs

"According to Fighter Forum, StarCraft 2 continues the story of the original and adds a new race based on Kerrigan, making a total of four races. While that wouldn't be totally off the mark, we figured the new race would be more the super-race mix between Zerg and Protoss rather than Zerg and Terran or at least the mystically advanced Xel'Naga. The three older tribes will each be receiving around two additional units."

Fancy and I closed my tab so no link for you, go to a nondescript search engine and type in Starcraft 2 to get your own linky.

:eek: Starcraft is no rip off, and besides have you seen the screen shots for SC2... just plain awesome. They have one of the classic 200 zerglings vs 10 marines and two bunkers shot. Wonder who wins that :rolleyes:
Too bad they are going to shut down the old starcraft severs

"According to Fighter Forum, StarCraft 2 continues the story of the original and adds a new race based on Kerrigan, making a total of four races. While that wouldn't be totally off the mark, we figured the new race would be more the super-race mix between Zerg and Protoss rather than Zerg and Terran or at least the mystically advanced Xel'Naga. The three older tribes will each be receiving around two additional units."

Fancy and I closed my tab so no link for you, go to a nondescript search engine and type in Starcraft 2 to get your own linky.

Yee...no. It is a rip-off. Plain and simple. Compare the Terrans to the Space Marines, the Zergs to the Orks, the Protoss to the Eldar.

And I don't give a wit about the graphical quality. Have you seen the new Dawn of War?

It's sort of like how Warcraft is a rip off of Warhammer.

Yee...no. It is a rip-off. Plain and simple. Compare the Terrans to the Space Marines, the Zergs to the Orks, the Protoss to the Eldar.

And I don't give a wit about the graphical quality. Have you seen the new Dawn of War?

It's sort of like how Warcraft is a rip off of Warhammer.

Realise that the graphical quality of Starcraft 2 is still in its alpha stages.I am confident that it will be much better.Yes DoW's graphics will proably be better but do graphics make the game?Not at all.

Dont get me wrong,I love all the ones in the poll,except for maybe Company of Heroes which I have barely played.

That isnt a rip off.

Since the begining of times, you always had these ideas that if you have three races, you need the humans, who are usually the most balanced ones, a second group with tons of units yet very weak ones, and a final group which is very powerfull yet has very few units.

Look at all the games that have three sides. They are all like that. I havent even played the new command and conquer to know that the game must be like that.

Yee...no. It is a rip-off. Plain and simple. Compare the Terrans to the Space Marines, the Zergs to the Orks, the Protoss to the Eldar.

And I don't give a wit about the graphical quality. Have you seen the new Dawn of War?

It's sort of like how Warcraft is a rip off of Warhammer.

And what did Warhammer 40K rip off?




JRR Tolkien...

Yeah, that's right, the Eldar are like the elves, the Orks are like the Orcs (a-duhr) and the barbaric humans are like the unwashed men. And who knows where JRR stole THOSE from.

The point I'm trying to make is: be careful whenever you say something is ripping something else off, because what you claim to be the original may not totally be so. I mean...immitiation is what humanity excells at. Just look at the Romans, who totally ripped off the Greeks

Other than that, just relax. It's all good.

If good graphics made a game good then Nation States would have died long ago as it has little in the fancy graphics department... When it gets down to it people like game play and ease of control rather than graphics.

Well graphics plays a role sometimes, look at Dead or Alive they could have not made a game at all and just put Girls! Jiggly! Bikinis! on the box and people would buy it just for that, although the game is a more socially acceptable thing to have going on in a situation like that.

WHAT?!

No love for AOE?!

I know the latest offering in the series is weak, but seriously, AoE II might just be the best RTS ever made.

And what did Warhammer 40K rip off?

JRR Tolkien...

Yeah, that's right, the Eldar are like the elves, the Orks are like the Orcs (a-duhr) and the barbaric humans are like the unwashed men. And who knows where JRR stole THOSE from.

The point I'm trying to make is: be careful whenever you say something is ripping something else off, because what you claim to be the original may not totally be so. I mean...immitiation is what humanity excells at. Just look at the Romans, who totally ripped off the Greeks

Other than that, just relax. It's all good.

More than that, Eldar is a term that Tolkien himself invented. Every fantasy game, whether it's on a computer, platform, handheld or tabletop owes its existence to Tolkien.

WHAT?!

No love for AOE?!

I know the latest offering in the series is weak, but seriously, AoE II might just be the best RTS ever made.

I agree. Seriously, WFT?

...I'm tired, I'm going to sleep...

Yes Aoe is good, that should not be an option otherwise we would have less to complain about. :)

Yee...no. It is a rip-off. Plain and simple. Compare the Terrans to the Space Marines, the Zergs to the Orks, the Protoss to the Eldar.

Starcraft draws from virtually all sci-fi, with dozens of references scattered throughout. For example, there's one mission where the enemy marines all make quotes from star wars ("It's them, blast them!" "You rebel scum!" etc). The Terran dropship is pretty much lifted from Aliens ("In the pipe, five by five"), as well as other unit quotes ("How do I get out of this chickenshit outfit"), and probably others I missed.

Also, the Zerg are nothing even remotely like the Orks. They are more like the bugs in Starship Troopers or the xenomorphs in Aliens. Also, the only parallel between the Terrans and Space Marines that I can see is the idea of space marines in power armour, which is an old sci-fi cliche that existed long before 40k. Heinlein's original Starship Troopers (1950s) had powered armour, and I expect the idea is even older than that.

If I had to go so far as to call it a rip-off of something, it would be Aliens or Starship Troopers. In terms of style it resembles them far more than it does Warhammer 40k.

Zergs are nothing like orcs... more like Tyranids.

Too bad they are going to shut down the old starcraft severs
:eek:

Are they Mad?? Blizzard'll be invaded by Korea!

If I had to go so far as to call it a rip-off of something, it would be Aliens or Starship Troopers. In terms of style it resembles them far more than it does Warhammer 40k.

It's more a homage, or a cross, than a rip-off... :)

And I for one love the Aliens and Starship Troopers references :D

It's more a homage, or a cross, than a rip-off... :)


Of course. :)

Although, I doubt it contains even so much as a homage to 40K.

Why can't it be multiple choice??? I loved the entire Total War Series for its battlefield control... Starcraft was just fucking awesome and Command and Conquer is litterally hours of endless fun...

WHAT?!

No love for AOE?!

I know the latest offering in the series is weak, but seriously, AoE II might just be the best RTS ever made.


I know. And no EE or Civ? WTF?

Starcraft draws from virtually all sci-fi, with dozens of references scattered throughout. For example, there's one mission where the enemy marines all make quotes from star wars ("It's them, blast them!" "You rebel scum!" etc). The Terran dropship is pretty much lifted from Aliens ("In the pipe, five by five"), as well as other unit quotes ("How do I get out of this chickenshit outfit"), and probably others I missed.

If I had to go so far as to call it a rip-off of something, it would be Aliens or Starship Troopers. In terms of style it resembles them far more than it does Warhammer 40k.
They were paying homage to the science fiction genre that was the beloved basis of one of the greatest games of all time.

Of course. :)

Although, I doubt it contains even so much as a homage to 40K.

don't know about the original starcraft, but warcraft 3 did.

dwarven warrior - "this warhammer cost me 40k!"

Yee...no. It is a rip-off. Plain and simple. Compare the Terrans to the Space Marines, the Zergs to the Orks, the Protoss to the Eldar.

Also, the Zerg are nothing even remotely like the Orks. They are more like the bugs in Starship Troopers or the xenomorphs in Aliens. Also, the only parallel between the Terrans and Space Marines that I can see is the idea of space marines in power armour, which is an old sci-fi cliche that existed long before 40k. Heinlein's original Starship Troopers (1950s) had powered armour, and I expect the idea is even older than that.

How did you BOTH fuck it?

Zerg are Tyranids. DUH.

Except, much, much better.

http://www.electricocean.com/gtpics/006/Tyranid_Warrior.jpg

Also, should have made it a multi-poll.

Right now, C&C for the win. DoW for the future win. CoH is just one game, not really a series.

Starcraft draws from virtually all sci-fi, with dozens of references scattered throughout. For example, there's one mission where the enemy marines all make quotes from star wars ("It's them, blast them!" "You rebel scum!" etc). The Terran dropship is pretty much lifted from Aliens ("In the pipe, five by five"), as well as other unit quotes ("How do I get out of this chickenshit outfit"), and probably others I missed.

Also, the Zerg are nothing even remotely like the Orks. They are more like the bugs in Starship Troopers or the xenomorphs in Aliens. Also, the only parallel between the Terrans and Space Marines that I can see is the idea of space marines in power armour, which is an old sci-fi cliche that existed long before 40k. Heinlein's original Starship Troopers (1950s) had powered armour, and I expect the idea is even older than that.

If I had to go so far as to call it a rip-off of something, it would be Aliens or Starship Troopers. In terms of style it resembles them far more than it does Warhammer 40k.I've been playing this game for almost a decade.. and only last week I discovered a 2nd cameo/homage to Robocop

It was time to change my answering machine message.

yes.. my messages come from Warcraft and Starcraft :D

what no settlers

Starcraft draws from virtually all sci-fi, with dozens of references scattered throughout. For example, there's one mission where the enemy marines all make quotes from star wars ("It's them, blast them!" "You rebel scum!" etc). The Terran dropship is pretty much lifted from Aliens ("In the pipe, five by five"), as well as other unit quotes ("How do I get out of this chickenshit outfit"), and probably others I missed.

Also, the Zerg are nothing even remotely like the Orks. They are more like the bugs in Starship Troopers or the xenomorphs in Aliens. Also, the only parallel between the Terrans and Space Marines that I can see is the idea of space marines in power armour, which is an old sci-fi cliche that existed long before 40k. Heinlein's original Starship Troopers (1950s) had powered armour, and I expect the idea is even older than that.

If I had to go so far as to call it a rip-off of something, it would be Aliens or Starship Troopers. In terms of style it resembles them far more than it does Warhammer 40k.

QFT.

If you pay attention, you will find references to Star Wars, Starship Troopers, Aliens, Robocop, Warhammer 40K, and Sci-fi archetypes like the Swarm (see the Borg Collective, Halo's Flood, Warhammer's Tyranids,etc...), Roman government, and rednecks. It's not a matter of ripping off anything, it's a matter of having a development house of complete, irredeemable nerds! Starcraft was a loving homage to an entire genre of fiction and a brilliant, original piece of work in it's own right that far exceeds Warhammer 40K in terms of depth and narrative.

Warhammer 40K was hardly original. In fact, it ripped off Warhammer ITSELF! It was a re-imagination of the exact same material and concept with a gimmick to set it apart - fantasy races in space. That's it. That's all it was. Furthermore, Warhammer was in turn just Tolkien with the gimmick being never ending bloodshed. Tolkien, in turn, by his own profession was "ripping off" Norse and Celtic mythology!

If all you know about Starcraft is that it ripped off 40K, I suggest you get a little perspective here.

Starcraft was a loving homage to an entire genre of fiction and a brilliant, original piece of work in it's own right that far exceeds Warhammer 40K in terms of depth and narrative.

W40k doesn't HAVE a narrative. It's a ongoing world, with many small stories and chapters. As opposed to StarCraft's lifeless, linear "world".

Warhammer 40K was hardly original. In fact, it ripped off Warhammer ITSELF!

That's like saying Lord of the Rings is a ripoff of The Hobbit.

Furthermore, Warhammer was in turn just Tolkien with the gimmick being never ending bloodshed. Tolkien, in turn, by his own profession was "ripping off" Norse and Celtic mythology!

Except that Tolkien never gave an image to his world. Warhammer was the first to create the images and stereotypes we all know today (green Orcs, for example).

If all you know about Starcraft is that it ripped off 40K, I suggest you get a little perspective here.

I'd give SC some leeway, if it hand straight out ripped off Tyranids and Eldar.

Starcraft was great, but ever since I played DoW I've gotten used to the squad-control system rather than "click on each and every single sodding trooper". If Starcraft 2 does something similiar, then it WILL pwn

Close Combat series is the best RTS series ever. End of story!

you're comparing games it isn't really fair to compare, given the difference between the times they came out. Starcraft is a classic of the genre but is now severely dated, and the others are defined by when they came out.

Personally I prefer to Total War series, but there we go.

And what did Warhammer 40K rip off?




JRR Tolkien...

Yeah, that's right, the Eldar are like the elves, the Orks are like the Orcs (a-duhr) and the barbaric humans are like the unwashed men. And who knows where JRR stole THOSE from.

The point I'm trying to make is: be careful whenever you say something is ripping something else off, because what you claim to be the original may not totally be so. I mean...immitiation is what humanity excells at. Just look at the Romans, who totally ripped off the Greeks

Other than that, just relax. It's all good.

And JRR Tolkien "Stole" his ideas from various mythologies.

Really. For those that think that any of these games is "innovative" in terms of story... well, they really aren't thinking much. Everything is a rip-off of something, borrowed story, borrowed character ideas. New ideas really don't work to well, as people are comfortable with the familiar.

I know. And no EE or Civ? WTF?

Your right,civilization was a big miss on my part.
What is EE?
AoE was alright for me so I didnt put it on the list.

W40k doesn't HAVE a narrative. It's a ongoing world, with many small stories and chapters. As opposed to StarCraft's lifeless, linear "world".

That's like saying Lord of the Rings is a ripoff of The Hobbit.

Except that Tolkien never gave an image to his world. Warhammer was the first to create the images and stereotypes we all know today (green Orcs, for example).

I'd give SC some leeway, if it hand straight out ripped off Tyranids and Eldar.

Alright, lets have a look at this.

Warhammer's Orks - Green, come from mushrooms, virtually incapable of magic, led by the biggest mofo around, nearly incapable of organizing, dumb as a bag of hammers...

Warcraft's Orcs - Green, born from mommy and daddy orcs, capable of Shamanistic and demonic magic, led by a magically skilled warchief (formally a counsel of Seers), organized into clans and currently united, reasonably intelligent and honorable...

Wait, I see where you're coming from... Z0MG tehy 4 b0th GR33N WTFz0rz R1P 0FF11!1 :rolleyes:

That's the problem... Upon closer inspection, you will find that the Terrans have no relation to the religiously dogmatic Empire and that the Protoss have little or nothing in common to Warhammer's "elves in space" which is all the Eldar are.

Warhammer was a bloodier take on Tolkien, 40K just took the same material, put it in space, and called it Sci-Fi. Don't get me wrong, 40K is and always will be cool, but for very different reasons... The stories aren't its draw, the senseless carnage is.

You missed Total Annihilation/Supreme Commander from the list.
Also, I'm not sure Total War should be on there; the important bits are turn-based. If you don't know you're going to win (for your definition of "win") you shouldn't be fighting; the battles are just a formality.

Look at all the games that have three sides. They are all like that. I havent even played the new command and conquer to know that the game must be like that.

It isn't. (GDI = "Butt-kicking for goodness", NOD = Ninja-stealth with lasers and flame-tanks, Scrin = aircraft, so far as I can see.)
And neither is Supreme Commander. (You might think the three sides here are the same, if you haven't played it very much.)

Alright, lets have a look at this.

Warhammer's Orks - Green, come from mushrooms, virtually incapable of magic, led by the biggest mofo around, nearly incapable of organizing, dumb as a bag of hammers...

Warcraft's Orcs - Green, born from mommy and daddy orcs, capable of Shamanistic and demonic magic, led by a magically skilled warchief (formally a counsel of Seers), organized into clans and currently united, reasonably intelligent and honorable...

Wait, I see where you're coming from... Z0MG tehy 4 b0th GR33N WTFz0rz R1P 0FF11!1 :rolleyes:

That's the problem... Upon closer inspection, you will find that the Terrans have no relation to the religiously dogmatic Empire and that the Protoss have little or nothing in common to Warhammer's "elves in space" which is all the Eldar are.

Warhammer was a bloodier take on Tolkien, 40K just took the same material, put it in space, and called it Sci-Fi. Don't get me wrong, 40K is and always will be cool, but for very different reasons... The stories aren't its draw, the senseless carnage is.

very good point.

You missed Total Annihilation/Supreme Commander from the list.
Also, I'm not sure Total War should be on there; the important bits are turn-based. If you don't know you're going to win (for your definition of "win") you shouldn't be fighting; the battles are just a formality.



It isn't. (GDI = "Butt-kicking for goodness", NOD = Ninja-stealth with lasers and flame-tanks, Scrin = aircraft, so far as I can see.)
And neither is Supreme Commander. (You might think the three sides here are the same, if you haven't played it very much.)


I put Total War on the list because it is widely reckognized as the best battle simulator out there(for ancient times)

Total war (rome & medieval II). Allows for both strategic & tactical playing. Dozens of nations/empires to play as. no 2 games are alike. and very moddable.

Why can't it be multiple choice??? I loved the entire Total War Series for its battlefield control... Starcraft was just fucking awesome and Command and Conquer is litterally hours of endless fun...

agreed

I bought StarCraft my sophomore year of high school, and I still play it. I bought Dawn of War my sophomore year of college, and I haven't played it in a year.

The answer is easy.

Starcraft. I've never played any of them, but it has the coolest name.

Close Combat series is the best RTS series ever. End of story!

Close Combat is EXCELLENT, very underrated in my book.

Starcraft gets my vote though. I've been playing it for half my existance and I still never get bored of it. It's timeless.

However, C&C comes in second, but those bastards at EA ruined the franchise with Generals *shutters*.

I'm surprised to one has mentioned Total Annihilation though, it's also an amazing RTS.

I still don't see what people see in StarCraft. It was nothing special.

How much do you want to bet SC2 will rip off DoW's squad system, though?

All I've played from the poll is StarCraft....I need a better computer :(

I still don't see what people see in StarCraft. It was nothing special.

How much do you want to bet SC2 will rip off DoW's squad system, though?

Yes, I also suppose the Germans will build a time machine and win WW2.

Yes, I also suppose the Germans will build a time machine and win WW2.

THEY WILL!!!! We Must Stop THEM!!!! *buys plane ticket to Germany*

COH Own all. Period.

Starcraft is nothing special. People need to stop acting like it is.

COH Own all. Period.

Starcraft is nothing special. People need to stop acting like it is.

You're just pissed because you can never get that 'Goon drop done properly, can you?

Don't use the transports, use the fricken Arbitors damnit!

Yes, I also suppose the Germans will build a time machine and win WW2.

...

And... what game was that, again?

COH Own all. Period.

Starcraft is nothing special. People need to stop acting like it is.

CoH is probably the best RTS since Red Alert, which is an amazing feat considering that CoH has two sides and one campaign.

CoH is probably the best RTS since Red Alert, which is an amazing feat considering that CoH has two sides and one campaign.

Aye.

I still don't see what people see in StarCraft. It was nothing special.

How much do you want to bet SC2 will rip off DoW's squad system, though?What is a Dow ?? :confused:

Age of Empires. No invented game can ever match real historical warfare.

OK, Total War is also historical. But Total War is very different.

What is a Dow ?? :confused:

Dawn of War.

An overhyped, bland, and run-of-the-mill RTS. It's one "innovative" feature is the squad system... which really is almost unnoticeable.

Honestly, the game isn't that great. After playing it for a long while, I realized that all three races pretty much play exactly the same, with tiny differences between them. Mass... rush... rebuild... mass... rush... rebuild... build uber-weapon, win.

Woo!

Age of Empires. No invented game can ever match real historical warfare.

OK, Total War is also historical. But Total War is very different.

Hell yeah. Each unit had its own different advantages and disadvantages, you could choose which research areas to concentrate in. There were so many different ways to win.

Which races do you favor?

Hell yeah. Each unit had its own different advantages and disadvantages, you could choose which research areas to concentrate in. There were so many different ways to win.

Which races do you favor?

In I and II, I haven't played in ages (no pun intended). But in III, I have favored, do favor, and will always favor

MOTHER RUSSIA!
*cue horde of Strelets*

I played the III demo and didn't like it much.

It's all ranged units now. Melee unit attacks are so ineffective. It pissed me off.

I still play II regularly, and I like the Byzantines, Vikings, Teutons, and Japanese.

Basicly everyone who has a unique unit with a melee attack.

Dawn of War.

An overhyped, bland, and run-of-the-mill RTS. It's one "innovative" feature is the squad system... which really is almost unnoticeable.

Honestly, the game isn't that great. After playing it for a long while, I realized that all three races pretty much play exactly the same, with tiny differences between them. Mass... rush... rebuild... mass... rush... rebuild... build uber-weapon, win.

Woo!

As opposed to StarCraft. Mass... rush... rebuild... mass... rush... rebuild... win.

And DoW didn't even have superweapons.

I know. And no EE or Civ? WTF?

To be fair you cannot spam nuclear bombers in Starcraft (well you might be able to spam nukes but I just had to reference that EE tactic).

Empire Earth 1 was good, but all the civilizations were basically the same. Empire Earth 2 has a pretty much completely nonsensical unit balance system, at least when you get gunpowder.

Empire Earth 1 was good, but all the civilizations were basically the same. Empire Earth 2 has a pretty much completely nonsensical unit balance system, at least when you get gunpowder.

I never got to play EE2 but in EE1 I always had a huge reserve of close combat cavalry to destroy tanks, just for laughs.

I played the III demo and didn't like it much.

It's all ranged units now. Melee unit attacks are so ineffective. It pissed me off.

I still play II regularly, and I like the Byzantines, Vikings, Teutons, and Japanese.

Basicly everyone who has a unique unit with a melee attack.
lolwut? Pikemen are rubbish, but the better melee units which you probably didn't see leave a trail of destruction behind them. Doppelsoldners are great, and melee cavalry are always useful, since cannons are really powerful in III. 10 ronins in the expansion can deal horrible pain to anything that attacks them, even a huge force of skirmishers.

By the way, does anyone know of a good tactical modern warfare game?

I hate anybody who enjoys Damn of War. It's a complete misrepresentation and dumbing down of 40k. As, for that matter, are all GW computer games.

I hate anybody who enjoys Damn of War. It's a complete misrepresentation and dumbing down of 40k. As, for that matter, are all GW computer games.

Even shadow of the horned rat? I liked that from the Dogs of War format it seemed to follow.

Too bad it doesn't work on XP...

As opposed to StarCraft. Mass... rush... rebuild... mass... rush... rebuild... win.

I actually preferred surgical strikes when playing terran... Something SC II seems to be even better catered for :)

I hate anybody who enjoys Damn of War. It's a complete misrepresentation and dumbing down of 40k. As, for that matter, are all GW computer games.

Perhaps, but it also kindled a bit of an interest in the 40K universe in me. You know, borrowing my roomies' Codexes, reading the "Horus Heresy" novels, that sorta thing. We're also getting into the Inquisitor RPG, but I'm having a bloody difficult time finding decent models--not to mention my inexperience makes it difficult for me to write a plausible backstory for my character.

By the way, does anyone know of a good tactical modern warfare game?
What exactly do you want ? Turn based empire building al la Moo or SMAC, but then not in a future setting - or a game where you can e.g. replay desert storm as a general ?

What exactly do you want ? Turn based empire building al la Moo or SMAC, but then not in a future setting - or a game where you can e.g. replay desert storm as a general ?
Company of Heroes-style, preferably, but since everyone harps on about how great it is there probably isn't another one out there. Maybe just a new C&C Generals, that's getting a bit boring now... yeah I know there's C&C 3 but it's a) not modern and b) will make my computer explode (I played Joint Task Force, not sure if anyone else has, which wasn't bad, but pretty much the best strategy was to spam tanks and flak tanks and nothing else. Sometimes a few gunships. I like infantry. :()

Perhaps, but it also kindled a bit of an interest in the 40K universe in me. You know, borrowing my roomies' Codexes, reading the "Horus Heresy" novels, that sorta thing. We're also getting into the Inquisitor RPG, but I'm having a bloody difficult time finding decent models--not to mention my inexperience makes it difficult for me to write a plausible backstory for my character.

If that's your thing, then the universe is great. But definitely shop around before sinking money into 40K or Fantasy for tabletop wargaming. There are much better games out there that are much cheaper to get started with.

Of course, if you're solely and RPGer, disregard everything I just said :p

Perhaps, but it also kindled a bit of an interest in the 40K universe in me. You know, borrowing my roomies' Codexes, reading the "Horus Heresy" novels, that sorta thing. We're also getting into the Inquisitor RPG, but I'm having a bloody difficult time finding decent models--not to mention my inexperience makes it difficult for me to write a plausible backstory for my character.

Good for you. I, however, have a longstanding grounding in the 40K canon, and found the game a betrayal.

Why not make a game based upon Armageddon or Istvaan instead of that shite they produced for Dawn of War.

Oh, yeah, forgot to mention this in my last post. Even though DoW is my current RTS, there are a great many that aren't on this list that deserve at least recognition.

Age of Empires (especially II) we've heard lots. Man, I loved that game when it was in its heyday. I sucked at it, but I still loved it.

Total Annihilation we've heard at least once. Arguably the first use of 3-D units in an RTS (Dark Reign came out around the same time, but I don't know if anyone remembers that game), not to mention tangible benefits to exploiting terrain. Need I even mention the awesomeness of fighting an epic battle in which the clean-up was almost as vicious as the fighting?

Homeworld. True, not the best RTS ever (especially its lackluster sequel), but it deserves credit for being one of the first true 3-D RTSs... and for actually being fun.

And if anyone has any others to mention, then by all means, post 'em.





I keep hearing good things about CoH, but I've never played it, and I probably won't play it for quite a while. I just managed to find Baldur's Gate II (props to whoever remembers that game), but I found that my old save data for BG1 was erased. So, I've gotta play through both. I probably won't be playing much else until.... oh, Fall, maybe?

DoW, since Supcom/Total Annihilation arent choices.

Why?
Well...the actual use of strategy, for a start. That and the ability to select more than eight units at a time. I'd always hated that about Starcraft.
Secondary reasons, such as superior graphics and customization, come to mind as well.
To be honest, I never really liked Starcraft. Too much reliance on 'rock paper scissors' and rushing.
Sure, you can rush in DoW, but you cant just pump out 200 Boyz and run to the enemy base, because they'll probobly have a heavy bolter turret up.
And the limits on elite units. Thank God for the limits on elites. No longer can the Space Marines deploy 20 Terminator squads at once.
Custominzation is a nice factor as well. In DoW you can add various weapons to your squads to enhance their fighting ability against different enemies. Space Marines taking on Imperial Guard? Add heavy bolters. Fighting against the Necrons? Flamers and plasma guns all around!
'Course the Necrons dont get that...but they have a giant hovering pyramind with a death-lazor on it. And an ancient diety which consumes peoples souls.

I suppose I just like the Warhammer universe more as well. None of the lines in Starcraft made me so much as grin. But when I first clicked on my Chaos Space Marines with their shiney new Aspiring Champion and heard him shout, "DO YOU HEAR THE VOICES TO?!" a happy little bubble formed in my heart. The good kind. Not the heart attack inducing kind.
Other lines, like "WHERE'Z da trukk? WHYZ I WALKIN'?!" and "Orkz orkz orkz orkz, orkz orkz orkz orkz" spring to mind as well.

My only problem with DoW: Dark Crusade was how ridiculously unbalanced the Tau are. I mean they are without a doubt the most powerful race in the game by a longshot.

For example, a trio of Crisis Battlesuits armed with flamethrowers can take down pretty much any infantry force and many mechanized forces they're thrown again. Just try it. Put 200 Sluggas up against just 2 Crisis suits and see what happens.


Though then again, the Tau are pretty badass in general.

Anyone else hoping they bring in the Tyranid for DoW2?

Edit: I'm a fan of the gameplay, and a fan of the tabletop stripped of all the RP. It's generally just an exercise in tactics for me and my friends. Therefore, while I understand the issues some of you have with the story elements of DoW, I can't really relate to them.

My only problem with DoW: Dark Crusade was how ridiculously unbalanced the Tau are. I mean they are without a doubt the most powerful race in the game by a longshot.

Though then again, the Tau are pretty badass in general.

Anyone else hoping they bring in the Tyranid for DoW2?

Edit: I'm a fan of the gameplay, and a fan of the tabletop stripped of all the RP. It's generally just an exercise in tactics for me and my friends. Therefore, while I understand the issues some of you have with the story elements of DoW, I can't really relate to them.

You mean Necrons, right? :P
I mean, once the Necron player has the monolith up, the Necron Warriors are going to tear everything to shreds, since the Monoliths megadethlazor can kill a Bloodthirster in ten shots.
Not to mention Pariahs. Massive damage and HP, and they reinforce faster than IG Guardsmen. Hax, much?

You mean Necrons, right? :P
I mean, once the Necron player has the monolith up, the Necron Warriors are going to tear everything to shreds, since the Monoliths megadethlazor can kill a Bloodthirster in ten shots.
Not to mention Pariahs. Massive damage and HP, and they reinforce faster than IG Guardsmen. Hax, much?

True, but think about what you need to bring out a Monolith. You need to have a relic, first. Then you need to go through the entire research tree basically, and have a Power Core active, and then it's I think 1000 power from there to a Reactivated Monolith.


The Tau get their best mechanized unit (forget what it's called) without even requiring a Relic, and they can build two of them. And they take less time to build.

If you wanted to, 3 Crisis suits and two those mechanized units can take down a Monolith easily. And even if all 5 of those units died, you'd be able to get all 5 of them active again before the new Monolith was even close to ready.

Edit: Though to be fair, perhaps I was never an effective Necron player, and I've had more time to figure out Tau strategy.

True, but think about what you need to bring out a Monolith. You need to have a relic, first. Then you need to go through the entire research tree basically, and have a Power Core active, and then it's I think 1000 power from there to a Reactivated Monolith.


The Tau get their best mechanized unit (forget what it's called) without even requiring a Relic, and they can build two of them. And they take less time to build.

If you wanted to, 3 Crisis suits and two those mechanized units can take down a Monolith easily. And even if all 5 of those units died, you'd be able to get all 5 of them active again before the new Monolith was even close to ready.

Edit: Though to be fair, perhaps I was never an effective Necron player, and I've had more time to figure out Tau strategy.

Yes, but I can take out those battlesuits with a Bloodthirster, or some other uber-unit. Terminators armed with Autocannons'll shred pretty much anything.
And it really doesnt take that long to get an active monolith. If you rush it, 7-8 minutes is all you need. Your base is a bit vulnerable, but if you sit back and dont bugger with other people they usually dont bother you.
And, like I said, even IF the monolith gets taken down, the Pariahs are still there. They reinforce in about two seconds, and generally take at least five to kill :P

Good for you. I, however, have a longstanding grounding in the 40K canon, and found the game a betrayal.

Why not make a game based upon Armageddon or Istvaan instead of that shite they produced for Dawn of War.

Well if it were to be based off Armageddon then you would need the fluff style space marines.

How much do you want to bet SC2 will rip off DoW's squad system, though?

I think Blizzard would be committing suicide if they did. Who the hell wants it?

I think Blizzard would be committing suicide if they did. Who the hell wants it?

I do. It makes sense and it was one of the reaons I enjoyed DoW.

The reinforcement-in-the-field concept is pretty cool.

I do.

Are you one of the people who have been begging for Starcraft 2 for the last 9 years? Because I'd be surprised if it's what they want, and their opinion is likely to be the one that sways Blizzard's decisions. It's pretty much the reason Starcraft: Ghost got tanked. All they want is Starcraft with a few more units and pretty graphics. A drastically different gameplay mechanic would probably draw more criticism than praise, given the target demographic, and the fact that starcraft's gameplay is the chief reason for its success.

As opposed to StarCraft. Mass... rush... rebuild... mass... rush... rebuild... win.

And DoW didn't even have superweapons.

Starcraft isn't fun largely due to regular battles, my friend. It has retained popularity due to it's extensive map-making tool, and a dedicating fan-base willing to put many hours into making different custom games using the games interface. Kind of like Warcraft 3. Only the actual gameplay isn't as sucktacular. The Beauty of Starcraft, however, lies in simplicity of interface. You aren't getting lost trying to figure what the hell is going on and where. You aren't overwhelmed with options to figure out how the hell to make your guys do anything useful. You build. You send. Simple? Yes. But massing and rushing in starcraft, against a good player, is a sure-fire way to lose a game. You will waste your resources(Unless you are on an unlimited resources map, which just suck balls. This is the exception to the rule rather than the rule), waste time, and in the end lose the match.

Also, forget the Squiggoth much? I've single handedly won games of DoW against several opponents with out it dying. Wee!

My only problem with DoW: Dark Crusade was how ridiculously unbalanced the Tau are. I mean they are without a doubt the most powerful race in the game by a longshot.

For example, a trio of Crisis Battlesuits armed with flamethrowers can take down pretty much any infantry force and many mechanized forces they're thrown again. Just try it. Put 200 Sluggas up against just 2 Crisis suits and see what happens.


Though then again, the Tau are pretty badass in general.

Anyone else hoping they bring in the Tyranid for DoW2?

Edit: I'm a fan of the gameplay, and a fan of the tabletop stripped of all the RP. It's generally just an exercise in tactics for me and my friends. Therefore, while I understand the issues some of you have with the story elements of DoW, I can't really relate to them.

I actually like the narratve in 40K. In truth, I prefer it to trying to beat tranches of generic ultramarine, tyranid or world eater armies with my elegent Eldar! However, I do agree about the Tau. Did anybody get vexed in Fire Warrior when you could paste an entire squad of Marines as a Tau Warrior?

Total Annihilation. Supreme Commander.

Homeworld. Homeworld 2.

GUILD WARS IS BETTER You forgot to mention that

I actually like the narratve in 40K. In truth, I prefer it to trying to beat tranches of generic ultramarine, tyranid or world eater armies with my elegent Eldar! However, I do agree about the Tau. Did anybody get vexed in Fire Warrior when you could paste an entire squad of Marines as a Tau Warrior?

I thought it was odd, but chalked it up to my superior FPS skills. Then again, the Fire Warriors are supposed to be superior to the Marines in ranged combat skill. That's what the Tau are about (stealth and good ranged combat ability), but even then, a lot of the elite units of the Tau are just ridiculous when compared to other races, especially when you look at the unit costs.

Oh, and honestly, a trio of Battlesuits would eat Pariahs alive.

Hmm...now I kinda want to play it again.

I thought it was odd, but chalked it up to my superior FPS skills. Then again, the Fire Warriors are supposed to be superior to the Marines in ranged combat skill. That's what the Tau are about (stealth and good ranged combat ability), but even then, a lot of the elite units of the Tau are just ridiculous when compared to other races, especially when you look at the unit costs.

Oh, and honestly, a trio of Battlesuits would eat Pariahs alive.

Hmm...now I kinda want to play it again.

These are Marines though. I thought, being phenomenally well drilled and all, they might have the wits not to run at you at an obligingly easy pace one by one.

I do hate Tau in 40K as well. There's nothing more pleasing than watching an Avatar show Johnny Battlesuit what for!

These are Marines though. I thought, being phenomenally well drilled and all, they might have the wits not to run at you at an obligingly easy pace one by one.

I do hate Tau in 40K as well. There's nothing more pleasing than watching an Avatar show Johnny Battlesuit what for!

I can agree with you there, though I'm generally a Dark Eldar player.

lolwut? Pikemen are rubbish, but the better melee units which you probably didn't see leave a trail of destruction behind them. Doppelsoldners are great, and melee cavalry are always useful, since cannons are really powerful in III. 10 ronins in the expansion can deal horrible pain to anything that attacks them, even a huge force of skirmishers.

By the way, does anyone know of a good tactical modern warfare game?

I dunno, I never played the full version, but during the demo, I just strolled around with a dozen cannons and rockets and blew the hell out of everything. It was fun for about 10 minutes. I always thought the point of a demo was to show a balanced view of the game, highlighting its best points. Cannon spam is definitely not a strong point.

That's what I liked about AoE II, you couldn't just spam one type of unit and rush your enemies, you'd get annihilated. You had to build a balanced army and closely control your different types of units to exploit their strengths.

I'm bumping this because I just discovered the recent news, although I'm not sure how many people know of it, it's a few days old.

*takes deep breath*

OMG OMG OMG NEW AOE III EXPANSION ANNOUNCED OMG ASIAN CIVILIZATIONS YAY YAY YAY IT LOOKS SO AWESOMES AND THIS IS LIKE EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED BECAUSE I SAID THAT IT SHOULD SHOW THE TIME PERIOD OVER THE WHOLE WORLD OMG OMG OMG YAY

Uh... yes. New Age of Empires 3 expansion has been announced. It looks, um... good.

Yeah, I enjoyed the Starcraft, Warcraft games, and the Command & Conquer games when they came out. A lot.

Right now, I can't withstand the silly way of macromanaging.

After playing Dawn of War and Company of Heroes, more focused on micro managing, ground control and use of units instead of mass production...I find mass unit clashes quite silly.

I played Command & Conquer 3, and found it boring, (except for the wondrous cinematics, the only good part of the game). Again tank slaughters, mass murdering, and winning just because you can withstand the attrition of the meatgrinding of thousands and thousands of troops. Warcraft 3 was at least playable because it had a cap unit, that gives a bit of perspective of not just sending wave after wave of tanks towards the line.

If Starcraft 2, with all its graphic glory, is going to have the same strategic view as C&C 3, forget about it, I'll be over it in a week. I hope they (Blizzard)copy the "cap" factor from Warcraft 3, or go and seek some advise from THQ, that managed to create something new to the RTS genre that makes it more interesting, started it with Dawn of War, and finished it with Company of Heroes. That system just rocks. Want to have more cap?, go and control more terrain and resources. Don't stay at your base mass producing and throwing away tanks until you either grind or bore your opponent to death, given your fast fingers in using direct keyboards commands and your mouse. The micro managing system add tactics to strategy.

And yes, zergs are a bit ripping off the tyranids, and protoss a bit of the eldar. Appearance, psychic, hives and so forth...Given that the WH40K universe is old, really, really old, as old as the first Alien movie. But then again, it's valid that every piece of epic conflict story between different races in the space is going to be a rip off after all.

Right now, I am playing Medieval Total War 2, that as far as I have played it, remains to be interesting.

Starcraft had the smartest AI I'd seen for some time. 'Course, that's not saying much when your RTS experience pretty much ends with RA2.

I still remember a rumour going around the old Games Workshop forums that Starcraft was originally supposed to be a Warhammer 40K RTS. Though neither company would ever confirm or deny (and even mentioning it on the GW boards was a sure-fire way to get banned or at least get the thread locked).

I still remember a rumour going around the old Games Workshop forums that Starcraft was originally supposed to be a Warhammer 40K RTS. Though neither company would ever confirm or deny (and even mentioning it on the GW boards was a sure-fire way to get banned or at least get the thread locked).

What, you can't SEE IT?

Starcraft had the smartest AI I'd seen for some time. 'Course, that's not saying much when your RTS experience pretty much ends with RA2.

I still remember a rumour going around the old Games Workshop forums that Starcraft was originally supposed to be a Warhammer 40K RTS. Though neither company would ever confirm or deny (and even mentioning it on the GW boards was a sure-fire way to get banned or at least get the thread locked).

You've never played Warzone 2100.

Customizable unit design. The computer on harder settings would determine what technology you'd developed, and what weapon types you were primarily using, and work out countermeasures against you.
If you didn't build a versatile offense and defense setup, you were likely to get the shit beat out of you.

It's only downside was that the computers were always allied.

What, you can't SEE IT?

People are calling it a rip-off, I'm just providing history and other rumour.

I honestly couldn't care less: the zerg are rip-offs of the tyrannids are rip-offs of the xenomorphs (there was a short legal battle once the 'nids first came out), the Protoss are rip-offs of the Eldar are rip-offs of...something, and the Terrans are rip-offs of Space Marines are rip-offs of Heinlein's Mobile Infantry.

Never really cared where the idea came from as long as the game was fun. I'd play Starcraft over a game of 40k anytime.

If Starcraft 2, with all its graphic glory, is going to have the same strategic view as C&C 3, forget about it, I'll be over it in a week. I hope they (Blizzard)copy the "cap" factor from Warcraft 3, or go and seek some advise from THQ, that managed to create something new to the RTS genre that makes it more interesting, started it with Dawn of War, and finished it with Company of Heroes. That system just rocks. Want to have more cap?, go and control more terrain and resources. Don't stay at your base mass producing and throwing away tanks until you either grind or bore your opponent to death, given your fast fingers in using direct keyboards commands and your mouse. The micro managing system add tactics to strategy.

That, and squad-based combat, as well as reinforcing in the field. Who needs massive army sizes when a few squads of units can hold a position indefinitely?

That, and squad-based combat, as well as reinforcing in the field. Who needs massive army sizes when a few squads of units can hold a position indefinitely?

Yes, yes, and customizing squads too, it gives a new edge. It is not the same to have, "the grenadiers with the panzershreck and the other with the machine gun", or the "Space marines with plasma next to the ones with flamethrowers" than "Yeah, more zealots, and more, and more. Oh, here they come, the hundreds of clons and clons of hydralisks"

Although with the reinforcements part, I prefer the Company of Heroes system, where you indeed can reinforce in the field, but in some fixed positions when you have support available. Soldiers coming out of nowhere when you are inside the enemy base are...a bit strange.

And what did Warhammer 40K rip off?




JRR Tolkien...

And Michael Moorcock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Moorcock)

Do note that I'm an avid 40k player with about 4k of IG.

Anyway, I really like Company of Heroes. Most other RTS's are just twitch games and maps are too small to properly maneuver in.

I'm still holding out for an RTS that does some kind of logistics system accurately.

Company of Heroes- territory randomly spawns oil and bullets

Total War- thousands of men can march through the middle of the desert with no supply line and be perfectly fine

AOE/Empire Earth/C&C- all supply drop places have a magical teleport system which instantly sends resources to production buildings

Gah.

If Starcraft 2, with all its graphic glory, is going to have the same strategic view as C&C 3, forget about it, I'll be over it in a week. I hope they (Blizzard)copy the "cap" factor from Warcraft 3, or go and seek some advise from THQ, that managed to create something new to the RTS genre that makes it more interesting.

Warcraft 3's cap system was a copy of starcrafts,which in turn was a copy of the prievious warcrafts.