NationStates Jolt Archive

Source: Associated Press (http://home.bellsouth.net/s/editorial.dll?fromspage=all/home.htm&categoryid=&bfromind=7406&eeid=5220590&_sitecat=1522&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=-2&ck=&ch=ne&rg=blsadstrgt&_lid=332&_lnm=tg+ne+topnews&ck=&cntp=beta)


Carter: Bush's Impact 'Worst in History'
Published: 5/19/07, 5:46 PM EDT

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) - Former President Carter says President Bush's administration is "the worst in history" in international relations, taking aim at the White House's policy of pre-emptive war and its Middle East diplomacy.

The criticism from Carter, which a biographer says is unprecedented for the 39th president, also took aim at Bush's environmental policies and the administration's "quite disturbing" faith-based initiative funding.

"I think as far as the adverse impact on the nation around the world, this administration has been the worst in history," Carter told the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette in a story that appeared in the newspaper's Saturday editions. "The overt reversal of America's basic values as expressed by previous administrations, including those of George H.W. Bush and Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon and others, has been the most disturbing to me."

Carter spokeswoman Deanna Congileo confirmed his comments to The Associated Press on Saturday and declined to elaborate. He spoke while promoting his new audiobook series, "Sunday Mornings in Plains," a collection of weekly Bible lessons from his hometown of Plains, Ga.

"Apparently, Sunday mornings in Plains for former President Carter includes hurling reckless accusations at your fellow man," said Amber Wilkerson, Republican National Committee spokeswoman. She said it was hard to take Carter seriously because he also "challenged Ronald Reagan's strategy for the Cold War."

Carter came down hard on the Iraq war.

"We now have endorsed the concept of pre-emptive war where we go to war with another nation militarily, even though our own security is not directly threatened, if we want to change the regime there or if we fear that some time in the future our security might be endangered," he said. "But that's been a radical departure from all previous administration policies."

Carter, who won a Nobel Peace Prize in 2002, criticized Bush for having "zero peace talks" in Israel. Carter also said the administration "abandoned or directly refuted" every negotiated nuclear arms agreement, as well as environmental efforts by other presidents.

Carter also offered a harsh assessment for the White House's Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, which helped religious charities receive $2.15 billion in federal grants in fiscal year 2005 alone.

"The policy from the White House has been to allocate funds to religious institutions, even those that channel those funds exclusively to their own particular group of believers in a particular religion," Carter said. "As a traditional Baptist, I've always believed in separation of church and state and honored that premise when I was president, and so have all other presidents, I might say, except this one."

Douglas Brinkley, a Tulane University presidential historian and Carter biographer, described Carter's comments as unprecedented.

"This is the most forceful denunciation President Carter has ever made about an American president," Brinkley said. "When you call somebody the worst president, that's volatile. Those are fighting words."

Carter also lashed out Saturday at British prime minister Tony Blair. Asked how he would judge Blair's support of Bush, the former president said: "Abominable. Loyal. Blind. Apparently subservient."

"And I think the almost undeviating support by Great Britain for the ill-advised policies of President Bush in Iraq have been a major tragedy for the world," Carter told British Broadcasting Corp. radio.

Very out of character for him, sure he's been Anti-Bush but this is some heavy bashing here. But I can't really disagree

War for the sake of we THINK they might one day be a problem. (Or going to war for made up reasons)
Ignoring the separation of church and state.
(Giving money to groups that will help the poor... ONLY if you're their religion.)
Completely ruining whatever standings we have with the international community.
Abandoning any thing to do with the environment until recently, mainly because his hand is so deep in Polluting companies's pockets to care.
Not even trying to tell Israel to at least calm down a little.
and
ignoring any nuclear disarment process, despite the fact that the cold war is freaking over.

Yeah, I have to agree.

Nah, Nixon was worse.

Nah, Nixon was worse.

At least his gave us a nifty catchphrase.

When Carter says you suck, you know you have seriously fucked up.

Jimmy Carter is and always has been my favourite American President. I felt safe when he was Prez.

Liberal whining, conservative whining, it's all the bloody same to me.

Now, let's get to work.

War for the sake of we THINK they might one day be a problem. (Or going to war for made up reasons)

We've recognized the fact Iraq is a general shithole and budgetary black hole long ago, my friend.

Ignoring the separation of church and state.

Has the Waffen SS been kicking down the doors of temples and mosques recently, or shooting up abortion clinics?

Completely ruining whatever standings we have with the international community.

No shit?

Abandoning any thing to do with the environment until recently, mainly because his hand is so deep in Polluting companies's pockets to care.


Has it ever occured to you that we pollute the most because we have the largest economy in the world?

Not even trying to tell Israel to at least calm down a little.

Oh, shut up, Israel's very existence has been threatened since they carved out a slice of Palestine after the Second World War. They've got a right to be angry, me thinks.

ignoring any nuclear disarment process, despite the fact that the cold war is freaking over.

Grand, did Carter ignore the massive downsizing of American military forces both conventional and strategic following the collapse of the Soviet Union?

Liberal whining, conservative whining, it's all the bloody same to me. Whatever.

Now, let's get to work.
Indeed


We've recognized the fact Iraq is a general shithole and budgetary black hole long ago, my friend. Just want to rub it in a little more. Put more salt on the wounds of those who supported it. They deserve to suffer for making our country get stuck in that black hole.



Has the Waffen SS been kicking down the doors of temples and mosques recently, or shooting up abortion clinics? Pity the poor Athesist starving on the street because the local chruch refuses to serve anyone but Christians... Or the mother who they ignore because she had a kid outside of Marriage. While using Government money.

Oh and Godwin.


No shit? Yeah, No shit.


Has it ever occured to you that we pollute the most because we have the largest economy in the world? I fail to see how you must encourage to pollute to have a good economy.



Oh, shut up, Israel's very existence has been threatened since they carved out a slice of Palestine after the Second World War. They've got a right to be angry, me thinks. What do you take me for Oceandrive? Look at some of my Israel posts and get a clue. I have no problem with Israel's right to exist, heck I supported Israel the Lebanon war last year, does that mean I think they over do it sometimes? Yeah.


Grand, did Carter ignore the massive downsizing of American military forces both conventional and strategic following the collapse of the Soviet Union? What does that have to do with Nukes? I seriously fail to see why Bush seems to want to make more nukes.

When he's right, he's right. Just as Jim Cullen says these days too...
http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TnPCjO1UL._SS500_.jpg

But it's nothing new (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/profile/story/9961300/the_worst_president_in_history), and I believe history will judge him harshly...

Nixon wasn't that bad if you ignore his trampling of the constitution. Among other thiongs, he got us out of vietnam and improved relations with both china and russia. Now if you want some bad presidents to compare Dubya to, here are some of them:

* Hoover (completely bungled his handling of the Great Depression)
* Buchanan and Pierce (failed to prevent the civil war)
* Dubya (read a newspaper, ANY newspaper!)

Frankly, the only support Bush has comes from being in office during the 9/11 attacks. From a high of 89% approval (and a mere 7% disapproval) after it, they are currently a mere 32% approval and 62% disapproval -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:George_W._Bush_public_opinion_polling.png for details. I have a feeling that the only other president to have his approval rating tumble that much was Nixon, and that was because of watergate.

*walks into the middle of the forum with a puzzled look upon my face*

I can't be the only one seeing the circular pattern...right?
I'm going insane aren't I?...:(

*looks up* oh well look at all those posts...

Somebody sounds like a sore loser, and an elitist one at that. Just because he won the Nobel prize doesn't mean he's superior to Bush, nor does it give him the right to whine like a spoiled brat and undermine the morale of our troops with his pretentious airs.

Source: Associated Press (http://home.bellsouth.net/s/editorial.dll?fromspage=all/home.htm&categoryid=&bfromind=7406&eeid=5220590&_sitecat=1522&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=-2&ck=&ch=ne&rg=blsadstrgt&_lid=332&_lnm=tg+ne+topnews&ck=&cntp=beta)



Very out of character for him, sure he's been Anti-Bush but this is some heavy bashing here. But I can't really disagree

War for the sake of we THINK they might one day be a problem. (Or going to war for made up reasons)
Ignoring the separation of church and state.
(Giving money to groups that will help the poor... ONLY if you're their religion.)
Completely ruining whatever standings we have with the international community.
Abandoning any thing to do with the environment until recently, mainly because his hand is so deep in Polluting companies's pockets to care.
Not even trying to tell Israel to at least calm down a little.
and
ignoring any nuclear disarment process, despite the fact that the cold war is freaking over.

Yeah, I have to agree.

I gotta agree as well.

Somebody sounds like a sore loser,and an elitist one at that. Just because he won the Nobel prize doesn't mean he's superior to Bush, nor does it give him the right to whine like a spoiled brat and undermine the morale of our troops with his pretentious airs.

You're funny. You're a funny man.

Somebody sounds like a sore loser, and an elitist one at that. Just because he won the Nobel prize doesn't mean he's superior to Bush, nor does it give him the right to whine like a spoiled brat and undermine the morale of our troops with his pretentious airs.

Ladies and Gentlemen of General, I give you this year's recipient of the Going Down With the Ship Award for kissing the ass of the unsupportable.

The Golden Spectacles...with lenses of gold you can't see a damn thing through...are yours. Please don't drive or breed.

Nah, Nixon was worse.

I'd go with LBJ or Carter himself in that regard. LBJ did far more damage with Vietnam.

Nixon actually got us out of Vietnam and opened relations with china.

Carter gave Taiwan the boot off the UNSC and gave its seat to China. As the Taiwanese told my father "We have no problems with you, just send us Mr. Peanut Butter".

Nixon wasn't that bad if you ignore his trampling of the constitution. Among other thiongs, he got us out of vietnam and improved relations with both china and russia. Now if you want some bad presidents to compare Dubya to, here are some of them:

* Hoover (completely bungled his handling of the Great Depression)
* Buchanan and Pierce (failed to prevent the civil war)
* Dubya (read a newspaper, ANY newspaper!)

Frankly, the only support Bush has comes from being in office during the 9/11 attacks. From a high of 89% approval (and a mere 7% disapproval) after it, they are currently a mere 32% approval and 62% disapproval -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:George_W._Bush_public_opinion_polling.png for details. I have a feeling that the only other president to have his approval rating tumble that much was Nixon, and that was because of watergate.

And yet the American People did not want Nixon to be impeached nor did they want him to resign. *shrugs*

We can add to that list of worst presidents to! We can even add Carter to that list though people here will bitch and moan if that is the case. After all, he did shit while in office and nearly fucked over the military.

And yet the American People did not want Nixon to be impeached nor did they want him to resign. *shrugs*

We can add to that list of worst presidents to! We can even add Carter to that list though people here will bitch and moan if that is the case. After all, he did shit while in office and nearly fucked over the military.

Um... Camp David Accords? Majorly lower taxes? Not fragrently break the law, unlike every Republican administration since Nixon?

And yet the American People did not want Nixon to be impeached nor did they want him to resign. *shrugs*

We can add to that list of worst presidents to! We can even add Carter to that list though people here will bitch and moan if that is the case. After all, he did shit while in office and nearly fucked over the military.

Well Bushie. Why don't you offer up how the shrub is not the worst President?

The job is simply over his head.

What has he done? When 9/11 went down he could of of say begin a campaign to find alternate fuel sources so we don't have to be heavily involved in oil. A Kennedy type message like with Apollo.

What was his message? Go shopping and heres another Tax cut for the wealthy.

Well I will give him one thing. He set out to make the wealthy even more wealthy.

Sorry worst President ever and it will take us many years to recover from what he has done.

Um... Camp David Accords? Majorly lower taxes? Not fragrently break the law, unlike every Republican administration since Nixon?

Oil Crisis, Iran Hostage Situation, fucking over our military as did the next Democrat I could name. Let us not forget kicking Taiwan off of the Security Council.

Oh and let us not forget about the Panama Canal.

Oil Crisis, Iran Hostage Situation, fucking over our military as did the next Democrat I could name. Let us not forget kicking Taiwan off of the Security Council.

You glossed over one detail. Carter did a few things that have lasted. The shrub has not.

And yet the American People did not want Nixon to be impeached nor did they want him to resign. *shrugs*

We can add to that list of worst presidents to! We can even add Carter to that list though people here will bitch and moan if that is the case. After all, he did shit while in office and nearly fucked over the military.

I'd rather have a president that does nothing than one who is constantly trying to start WWIII.

Oil Crisis, Iran Hostage Situation, fucking over our military as did the next Democrat I could name. Let us not forget kicking Taiwan off of the Security Council.

You mean he kicked Taiwan off of the Security Council because it wasn't China, and helping to build the opening of China under Reagan? How simply terrible. Carter didn't fuck the military, it atrophied because Carter was focusing on other, more important issues. If his commanders had been competant, they would have kept a competant fighting force, but like the Military always does, they required more money than any efficient bureacracy. Iran Hostage, while it was a fiasco, belongs fully in the lap of Eisenhower, who thought it would be a good thing to subvert a Democratic leader and replace him with a tyrant. Carter could have done better, but that's only half his fault. The Oil Crisis is no more his fault than every American politicians, because they all appear to be in the Oil Industry's pocket. I don't see the Republicans preventing the coming Oil Crisis, so I'll be sure to blame them when it hits.

I'd rather have a president that does nothing than one who is constantly trying to start WWIII.

A President that does squat is a President that is dumb. Bush at least has defended the United States by attacking our enemies. Carter, the dumbass that he is, did not do so.

Wait...Carter Did both good and bad things?

Holy Crap! Everyone out the window!

A President that does squat is a President that is dumb. Bush at least has defended the United States by attacking our enemies. Carter, the dumbass that he is, did not do so.

Yeaaaaa he attacked! Wow such genius.

Iraq. Hmm let's debathify the place and piss off the people that were running the place. The ones that had the contact and the resources to cause crap. But hey Democracy will bring peace right?

Afghanistan? Hmmm Taliban seems to be everywhere again.

0 for 2 so far.

Oil Crisis, Iran Hostage Situation, fucking over our military as did the next Democrat I could name.Can't blame him for Iran really, that was going to happen anyway, that's like blaming Bush for 9/11.

Poor poor overbloated funded military. Perhaps maybe the military could get by with less money if we didn't keep trying to throw it away on insane new weapons and pork military contracts.

Besides who's the president closing down national Guard bases, while overstretching our troops and wasting the budget? Hmmm...

Let us not forget kicking Taiwan off of the Security Council.I blame free market, we wanted the Chinese Markets and factories so we bowed down to them.

Oh and let us not forget about the Panama Canal.
How dare the US hold up to a deal, we should have backstabbed them instead right?

You mean he kicked Taiwan off of the Security Council because it wasn't China, and helping to build the opening of China under Reagan? How simply terrible. Carter didn't fuck the military, it atrophied because Carter was focusing on other, more important issues. If his commanders had been competant, they would have kept a competant fighting force, but like the Military always does, they required more money than any efficient bureacracy. Iran Hostage, while it was a fiasco, belongs fully in the lap of Eisenhower, who thought it would be a good thing to subvert a Democratic leader and replace him with a tyrant. Carter could have done better, but that's only half his fault. The Oil Crisis is no more his fault than every American politicians, because they all appear to be in the Oil Industry's pocket. I don't see the Republicans preventing the coming Oil Crisis, so I'll be sure to blame them when it hits.

And the President let the military atrophied and did nothing about it. As to military competentcy, the military was still trying to recover from Vietnam. Also, let us look at the fact that Carter took money away from the military and gave it to others. That ment less training, less equipment, less of everything.

Oh and he created two new departments that were not needed at all. Those being Energy and Education. Both of which suck vast amounts of money that could go to other things like... SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICAID, AND MEDICARE!!!

Can't blame him for Iran really, that was going to happen anyway, that's like blaming Bush for 9/11.

Umm yea...I could go into it but I won't for that is a whole separate thread.

Poor poor overbloated funded military. Perhaps maybe the military could get by with less money if we didn't keep trying to throw it away on insane new weapons and pork military contracts.

And there goes the unemployment rate. And then inflation would go even higher than it did under Carter.

I blame free market, we wanted the Chinese Markets and factories so we bowed down to them.

And what was wrong with Taiwan? NOTHING!!!

How dare the US hold up to a deal, we should have backstabbed them instead right?

What deal? The canal belonged to the United States and he gave it away. The people of the US were not very happy with that.

Oh and he created two new departments that were not needed at all. Those being Energy and Education. Both of which suck vast amounts of money that could go to other things like... SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICAID, AND MEDICARE!!! How old are you?

I'd go with LBJ or Carter himself in that regard. LBJ did far more damage with Vietnam.

Nixon actually got us out of Vietnam and opened relations with china.

Carter gave Taiwan the boot off the UNSC and gave its seat to China. As the Taiwanese told my father "We have no problems with you, just send us Mr. Peanut Butter".
Oh hark I hear a noise. Oh yea it is the pitter patter of a Bushevik trying to defend his hero right to the bitter end of a horrendous run!!!

Give it up Corny. Carter was a far better man then your Junior Bush.

Oh and he created two new departments that were not needed at all. Those being Energy and Education. Both of which suck vast amounts of money that could go to other things like... SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICAID, AND MEDICARE!!!


WTF; first of all, ur a total uncultured, uneducated IDIOT if you think that energy (which helps us develop more fuel efficient fuels, as well as other things involving energy consumption) and education (which is probably the only reason that you or I can talk/understand things, but it appears as if you did not get the latter part of that reason) are un-needed. Besides, I'm not even sure Medicaid and Medicare are separate departments, but rather one department, which has around 23% of the federal budget of 2.3 trillion dollars. Was social security even around during Carter's time? Clear that up for me, someone other than a Bushie.




--Sides, Shrub is an asshole and should be whacked over the head with a bat.:mad:

And there goes the unemployment rate. And then inflation would go even higher than it did under Carter.
Here check this out:

The US Unemployment Rate - 1948 to 2006 (http://www.miseryindex.us/URbyyear.asp)

Republicans = unemployment?

Jimmy Carter is and always has been my favourite American President. I felt safe when he was Prez.

Thats funny..you're joking right..please tell me you're joking...

. Was social security even around during Carter's time? Clear that up for me, someone other than a Bushie.


Social Security has been around since the 1930s. It was part of the New Deal.

Republicans = unemployment?

That's correlation, but not causation. Those spikes in unemployment/inflation have virtually nothing to do with the policy of the president at the time but instead are caused by factors within the economy that are usually independent of presidential policies. For example, the spike in Reagan's misery index was due to the 1979 energy crisis and the high interest rates needed to contain it, and the spike in 2001-2003 was due to the corporate scandals and stock market bubble of the late 90's.

The only exception is the early 70's, when the combined bad decisions of Johnson and Nixon effectively caused the severe inflation and energy crisis of the time.

Thats funny..you're joking right..please tell me you're joking...

Actually, Carter is somewhat underrated as a President. His actions during his presidency were directly responsible for the decline in inflation and strong growth of the 1980's and even 1990's, since it was Greenspan's continuation of Volcker's policies up until 2000 that really helped power the economy forward.

Bush's choice of Ben Bernanke is easily one of his smartest moves as president; his policies, especially his decision to keep the federal funds rate constant at 5.25% for the past year, has had a lot to do with the improvement in the stock market as well as the greater economy despite the slowdown in the first quarter. In a lot of ways, he has helped undo the damage Greenspan did in the early 2000's, and it's going to boost our economic performance in the future.

Carter is just upset that, since he left, the rabbits have managed to take over 90% of the White House lawn. His tireless war against them was waged in vain, though the great campaign of '79, in which he pressed a daring aquatic assault through Georgia, will be forever remembered in the annals of military history.

Actually, Carter is somewhat underrated as a President. His actions during his presidency were directly responsible for the decline in inflation and strong growth of the 1980's and even 1990's, since it was Greenspan's continuation of Volcker's policies up until 2000 that really helped power the economy forward.

Bush's choice of Ben Bernanke is easily one of his smartest moves as president; his policies, especially his decision to keep the federal funds rate constant at 5.25% for the past year, has had a lot to do with the improvement in the stock market as well as the greater economy despite the slowdown in the first quarter. In a lot of ways, he has helped undo the damage Greenspan did in the early 2000's, and it's going to boost our economic performance in the future.

I hope so but I am concerned over the housing aspects. Too many people(well the ones I hear) are saying they could not buy the house they have now. The COL still outpaces income increases.

Personally: My wife has been looking for a job for 13 months now. All that is available is low wage part time work. So much for a college education. My coworkers wife is having the same problem.

I wish I could remember what it was but I read something increased by 2% and it's one of the warning flags for a troubled economy.

But then again our company founders love this economy. But with all the tax cuts they got, they don't seemed too interested in adding jobs or adding much in the way of compensation. Got a 1.5% raise. :(

*snip*

And gone are the days when a former president kept his mouth shut when it comes to a sitting president. I guess tradition has no place in today's society.

Jimmy Carter is and always has been my favourite American President. I felt safe when he was Prez.

If this is not sarcasm...

Snip

And someone needs to take a chill pill and study.

Somebody sounds like a sore loser, and an elitist one at that. Just because he won the Nobel prize doesn't mean he's superior to Bush, nor does it give him the right to whine like a spoiled brat and undermine the morale of our troops with his pretentious airs.

And at the sametime, smacking down Tony Blair in the process. Granted, I do not like Tony myself but at least he has a brain. More than I can say for both Bush and Carter.

I'll always hate Reagan more.

Oil Crisis, Iran Hostage Situation, fucking over our military as did the next Democrat I could name. Let us not forget kicking Taiwan off of the Security Council.

Oh and let us not forget about the Panama Canal.

The Oil Crisis was not necessarily his fault. You can blame that one on the Middle East soley. They were playing games you know.

As to the military, that one I can give you.

You glossed over one detail. Carter did a few things that have lasted. The shrub has not.

And that would be what? The Departments of Education and energy?

Oh hark I hear a noise. Oh yea it is the pitter patter of a Bushevik trying to defend his hero right to the bitter end of a horrendous run!!!

Give it up Corny. Carter was a far better man then your Junior Bush.

And Reagan was far better than Carter. Heck. JFK was far better than carter was. Even LBJ and I do not like LBJ but I did like Kennedy and Reagan. Even Bush the I was far better than Carter was.

And at the sametime, smacking down Tony Blair in the process. Granted, I do not like Tony myself but at least he has a brain. More than I can say for both Bush and Carter.

Actually Carter is pretty damn smart. A nuclear physicist who was the engineering officer on the sea wolf(2nd Nuclear sub).

WTF; first of all, ur a total uncultured, uneducated IDIOT if you think that energy (which helps us develop more fuel efficient fuels, as well as other things involving energy consumption) and education (which is probably the only reason that you or I can talk/understand things, but it appears as if you did not get the latter part of that reason) are un-needed.

Insulting people gets you nowhere. Please tell me how many kids the Department of Education has educated? The nation went 200 plus years without a Federal Department of Education. We also went 200 plus years without a Federal Energy Department as well. So tell me why you believe that Education and Energy are needed?

Besides, I'm not even sure Medicaid and Medicare are separate departments, but rather one department, which has around 23% of the federal budget of 2.3 trillion dollars. Was social security even around during Carter's time? Clear that up for me, someone other than a Bushie.

I see you failed History if you did not know that SS has been around since the mid 1930s.

--Sides, Shrub is an asshole and should be whacked over the head with a bat.:mad:

As opposed to you who has insulted a poster you know nothing about?

And that would be what? The Departments of Education and energy?

-edit-
Re-read Vetalia

When was the last time Israel and Egypt went to war?

Actually Carter is pretty damn smart. A nuclear physicist who was the engineering officer on the sea wolf(2nd Nuclear sub).

he studied it but from what I am reading, he never completed the degree. I could be wrong though. *shrugs* Also, from my limited research, he did not serve on the Seawolf but instead:

From 1 March to 8 October, Carter was preparing to become the engineering officer for the USS SEAWOLF (SSN 575). Contemporary with the USS NAUTILUS (SSN 571), the Navy's first submarine to operate on atomic power, SEAWOLF was built to test a "sodium cooled" nuclear reactor while NAUTILUS tested a pressurized water cooled reactor. He assisted in setting up training for the enlisted men who would serve on SEAWOLF. During this time his father became very sick and died in July 1953. Following his father's death in 1953, After 7 years, 4 months and 8 days of Naval service, Carter resigned from the U.S. Navy to return to Georgia to manage the family interests. Carter was honorably discharged on 9 October 1953 at Headquarters, Third Naval District in New York City. On 7 December 1961, he transferred to the retired reserve with the rank of Lieutenant at his own request.

From: http://www.submarinehistory.com/PresidentCarter.html

-edit-
Re-read Vetalia

When was the last time Israel and Egypt went to war?

I will give you that but then, it did lead to unrest in the region with Sadat being assassinated.

he studied it but from what I am reading, he never completed the degree. I could be wrong though. *shrugs* Also, from my limited research, he did not serve on the Seawolf but instead:

From: http://www.submarinehistory.com/PresidentCarter.html

Well shoot. I thought he had served on the sub. Thanks for the correction.

Well shoot. I thought he had served on the sub. Thanks for the correction.

It is not a problem :)

Have a nice evening. I am off for now.

And gone are the days when a former president kept his mouth shut when it comes to a sitting president.

Gone and good riddance. The president is not, and should not, be immune from criticism, indeed, the president should be the most critiqued person in america, if not the world

As opposed to you who has insulted a poster you know nothing about?

A poster who you are defending who just happens to NOT be you, right?

Wait...Lancaster County, that's in pennsylvania isn't it? Hmm....who else lives in PA...

It is quite unusual for Carter to be bluntly insulting. He's usually been criticized for being too diplomatic.

It is quite unusual for Carter to be bluntly insulting. He's usually been criticized for being too diplomatic.

Sometimes, enough is enough.

It is quite unusual for Carter to be bluntly insulting. He's usually been criticized for being too diplomatic.

straw that broke the camel's back perhaps....reminds me of that old popeye cartoon line "that's all I can stands and I can't stands no more"

I've always rather liked Carter, and it's both shocking and impressive to hear him be this blunt.

I'm rather amused, incidentally, by this quote from the article:


"Apparently, Sunday mornings in Plains for former President Carter includes hurling reckless accusations at your fellow man," said Amber Wilkerson, Republican National Committee spokeswoman. She said it was hard to take Carter seriously because he also "challenged Ronald Reagan's strategy for the Cold War."

I love this; both the rather pathetic attempt at a snide rebuttal and the ridiculous assertion that criticizing Reagan in any way utterly destroys one's credibility on all issues. Die-hard Republican party-liners are funny. :p

War for the sake of we THINK they might one day be a problem. (Or going to war for made up reasons)
It's called a pre-emptive strike and, like camping in any FPS multiplayer match, it is a perfectly legitimate strategy.

Ignoring the separation of church and state.
I know he's a religious guy, or at least he claims to be, but I have to ask just when did he ever take orders from the pope?

(Giving money to groups that will help the poor... ONLY if you're their religion.)
Again, I know he's a sympathizer and supporter but that doesn't mean he's on the payroll.

Completely ruining whatever standings we have with the international community.
Not everyone wants socialism. France recently elected a more conservative president or so I'm told.

Abandoning any thing to do with the environment until recently, mainly because his hand is so deep in Polluting companies's pockets to care.
Environmentally friendly alternatives aren't. Flourescent lights are hazardous chemical spills waiting to happen; the Toyota Pious has a higher dust-to-dust cost than a Hummer; windmills slice, dice, and cut through protected raptors, all for just $19,999.95...per unit, and did I mention that each wind farm comes with its own coal plant for when the wind just isn't cooperating?

Not even trying to tell Israel to at least calm down a little.
Because nothing says "let's be friends" like a suicide bomb on a school bus.

ignoring any nuclear disarment process, despite the fact that the cold war is freaking over.
First off, I don't see what so many people have against the damn things. I mean they can't just go off, there are still others in this little Mexican standoff, they can be used to propel spacecraft.

In closing, nostalgia never moved anything forward, things could always be worse, everything looks bad if you remember it, and bandwagons are fun when you jump on them but you'll eventually regret it.

Jimmy Carter is and always has been my favourite American President. I felt safe when he was Prez.

With a 70% crime rate during his administration.

I betcha did.

I think most people who like Carter can say he was a terrible prez, but he was at least somewhat honest...

A hard quality to find in most presidents, for sure...

I think most people who like Carter can say he was a terrible prez, but he was at least somewhat honest...

A hard quality to find in most presidents, for sure...

More and more.
He wasn't TERRIBLE, it's just that the conditions he was involved in didn't allow novice or poorly-competent performance to slide by unnoticed or unexploited.

*sigh*

It's called a pre-emptive strike and, like camping in any FPS multiplayer match, it is a perfectly legitimate strategy.


I know he's a religious guy, or at least he claims to be, but I have to ask just when did he ever take orders from the pope?


Again, I know he's a sympathizer and supporter but that doesn't mean he's on the payroll.


Not everyone wants socialism. France recently elected a more conservative president or so I'm told.


Environmentally friendly alternatives aren't. Flourescent lights are hazardous chemical spills waiting to happen; the Toyota Pious has a higher dust-to-dust cost than a Hummer; windmills slice, dice, and cut through protected raptors, all for just $19,999.95...per unit, and did I mention that each wind farm comes with its own coal plant for when the wind just isn't cooperating?


Because nothing says "let's be friends" like a suicide bomb on a school bus.


First off, I don't see what so many people have against the damn things. I mean they can't just go off, there are still others in this little Mexican standoff, they can be used to propel spacecraft.

In closing, nostalgia never moved anything forward, things could always be worse, everything looks bad if you remember it, and bandwagons are fun when you jump on them but you'll eventually regret it.

First of all, a pre-emptive strike is done when you know an enemy is about to attack you. There was no such warning in terms of Iraq, or that asshat Saddam. Secondly, I think starting a war is a little different than playing a FPS computer game.

Next, having good relations with the Internalional Community isn't about socialism, its about diplomacy. Its never bad to have too many allies, and never good when you have too many enemies.

Because nothing says "let's be friends" like a suicide bomb on a school bus.

And because nothing says "let's be friends" like shooting a bunch of kids throwing rocks at you.

Oh, and the bad things about nukes: They are made to kill.:)

Oil Crisis, Iran Hostage Situation, fucking over our military as did the next Democrat I could name. Let us not forget kicking Taiwan off of the Security Council.

Oh and let us not forget about the Panama Canal.

The Oil Crisis was not necessarily his fault. You can blame that one on the Middle East soley. They were playing games you know.

As to the military, that one I can give you.
Why are you debating with yourself Corny?
:confused:

It's called a pre-emptive strike and, like camping in any FPS multiplayer match, it is a perfectly legitimate strategy. And don't Campers tend to be the most hated players in FPSs? They also tend to get ganged up on and owned in the end.

I know he's a religious guy, or at least he claims to be, but I have to ask just when did he ever take orders from the pope? He takes orders from 'God' though. (His version of god)

Again, I know he's a sympathizer and supporter but that doesn't mean he's on the payroll.[/Quote] He says it's God's will that he's in power. If that's not religious then what is?


Not everyone wants socialism. France recently elected a more conservative president or so I'm told. 90% of the world is Socialist? Wow.



Environmentally friendly alternatives aren't. Flourescent lights are hazardous chemical spills waiting to happen; the Toyota Pious has a higher dust-to-dust cost than a Hummer; windmills slice, dice, and cut through protected raptors, all for just $19,999.95...per unit, and did I mention that each wind farm comes with its own coal plant for when the wind just isn't cooperating? Since when does it say I support wind farms? Huh? Wait strawman.


Because nothing says "let's be friends" like a suicide bomb on a school bus. And nothing says overkill like an airstrike on a one room building. Which results in killing the 1 terrorist and everyone in a 50 foot radius...
Waste of a good bomb as well.


First off, I don't see what so many people have against the damn things. I mean they can't just go off, there are still others in this little Mexican standoff, they can be used to propel spacecraft. Because it's a waste of $$$ to build more of them. And if Atomic bombs are what's responsible for the Shuttle taking off, then Cape Carneval must be a giant nuclear wasteland by now.
Are you ignorant? I'm not talking about rockets.

In closing, nostalgia never moved anything forward, things could always be worse, everything looks bad if you remember it, and bandwagons are fun when you jump on them but you'll eventually regret it.
Been on it since 02. Haven't regreted it once.

It's called a pre-emptive strike and, like camping in any FPS multiplayer match, it is a perfectly legitimate strategy.

Sure when there is indeed a planned attack coming your way. This was nothing more then trying to one up daddy.

I know he's a religious guy, or at least he claims to be, but I have to ask just when did he ever take orders from the pope?

Not valid at all. Can you name one President that took orders from the Pope?

Again, I know he's a sympathizer and supporter but that doesn't mean he's on the payroll.
How about favors for their support?

Not everyone wants socialism. France recently elected a more conservative president or so I'm told.
Ah what?

Environmentally friendly alternatives aren't. Flourescent lights are hazardous chemical spills waiting to happen;

If you mean the home use ones, then it's interesting they are ok to use for business.


the Toyota Pious has a higher dust-to-dust cost than a Hummer;

Sure they do. That's why my limited income mother has one.


windmills slice, dice, and cut through protected raptors, all for just $19,999.95...per unit, and did I mention that each wind farm comes with its own coal plant for when the wind just isn't cooperating?

Bullshit. There are 2 such farms near my wifes relatives. No coal plants.

Because nothing says "let's be friends" like a suicide bomb on a school bus.
Kind of like chopper strikes blasting civilians. Whoops collateral damage.


First off, I don't see what so many people have against the damn things. I mean they can't just go off, there are still others in this little Mexican standoff, they can be used to propel spacecraft.

In closing, nostalgia never moved anything forward, things could always be worse, everything looks bad if you remember it, and bandwagons are fun when you jump on them but you'll eventually regret it.

So when are you jumping off?

Why are you debating with yourself Corny?
:confused:

Whoa? They are the same?

Why are you debating with yourself Corny?
:confused:

*waves hands frantically*

SHshishshshshhhshhshhhhhshshhsshhhhSHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Whoa? They are the same?

Nothing to see here, move along!
Fnord.

Why are you debating with yourself Corny?
:confused:

yeah I thought that was against the rules...

Secondly, I think starting a war is a little different than playing a FPS computer game.
That was meant as a joke. The whole FPS camping thing. You didn't get it or you wouldn't have made a big deal out of it.

Next, having good relations with the Internalional Community isn't about socialism, its about diplomacy. Its never bad to have too many allies, and never good when you have too many enemies.
“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” - Benjamin Franklin
Diplomacy is when the lamb just keels over and hopes the wolves are gentle.

And because nothing says "let's be friends" like shooting a bunch of kids throwing rocks at you.
First, when did Israel do this? Second, you might have an itchy trigger finger if 7/7 happened in the next county every couple of weeks.

Oh, and the bad things about nukes: They are made to kill.:)
So are guns, knives, clubs, arrows, conventional bombs, etc. All of these things, including nukes, have legitimate uses. Ignorant people just like to ignore them so they can maintain the illusion of the validity of their arguments to at least themselves.

Because it's a waste of $$$ to build more of them.
Everyone on my HS chess team made workable construction drawings of either nuclear fission or fusion warheads. Myself included. They're much easier to make than you think. If anything about nukes should scare you, that should be it.

And if Atomic bombs are what's responsible for the Shuttle taking off, then Cape Carneval must be a giant nuclear wasteland by now.
Are you ignorant? I'm not talking about rockets.
Project Orion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29) was the first engineering design study for a nuclear pulse rocket.

Been on it since 02. Haven't regreted it once.
There will come a day. It is almost universal constant.

Whoa? They are the same?

Other than the obvious similarities in posting style and political alignment....

CThis poster's name is "lancastercounty". Corny has a puppet named "allegheny county".

Lancaster County and Allegheny County are both in Pennsylvania. Which is where Corny lives.

Draw your own conclusions....Whether you choose to believe that someone named "lancastercounty" is in fact another person than someone who has a puppet of "allegheny county", despite the fact that the posting styles and political beliefs are near identical and BOTH names are counties in the state where the person lives, that's your choice. Personally, I'm not one to believe in that much of a coincidence

edit: I don't mean that the posters allegheny county and lancastercounty have said they are in PA. Rather, "Lancaster" and "Allegheny" are the actual names of two counties in PA, as seen here (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/states/pennsylvania.gif).

Everyone on my HS chess team made workable construction drawings of either nuclear fission or fusion warheads. Myself included. They're much easier to make than you think. If anything about nukes should scare you, that should be it.Forgive the interjection, but you should be even more scared of the supercavitating warhead project they're working on.

:eek:

Draw your own conclusions....
CLASSIC!!!!!! :D

That was meant as a joke. The whole FPS camping thing. You didn't get it or you wouldn't have made a big deal out of it.
Then don't make the joke. Really, if you're going to make an analogy a joke, at least be a bit clearer.


“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” - Benjamin Franklin
Diplomacy is when the lamb just keels over and hopes the wolves are gentle.

I'm confused...are you saying that diplomacy is useless in all situations? I think that is not only idiotic and foolish, but far beneath you. You're a competent engineer, not a warmongerer. Quit acting like one.

First, when did Israel do this? Second, you might have an itchy trigger finger if 7/7 happened in the next county every couple of weeks.

I do recall hearing about Isralie forces firing upon the children, though you do have a point: people tend to be a lot more easily antagonized if constant warefare and strife occurs around them.

Israel has the right to defend themselves. What they do not have the right to do is defend themselves with overreactive extra attacks everywhere they go. They are supposed to be the ones standing upon a higher moral plataue, correct? They should act like it instead of acting like barbarians like their enemies.

Similiarly, one must not ignore the fact that the Palastenians have a valid claim as well. They had sovereign terrirtory just randomly carved up by the British and taken away from them--including a holy city--for the sake of someone else. Think about it...what if some random nation just carved up, say, Virginia, Maryland, and Washington D.C. and allocated it to a random group of people. How would we react?


So are guns, knives, clubs, arrows, conventional bombs, etc. All of these things, including nukes, have legitimate uses. Ignorant people just like to ignore them so they can maintain the illusion of the validity of their arguments to at least themselves.

True, but I urge caution in saying things like this. Doing so in an antagonistic way as you are doing here will not only not convince others, it will make your argument look all the weaker. As such, I say be gentle. That's my advice, anyway.

First, when did Israel do this? Second, you might have an itchy trigger finger if 7/7 happened in the next county every couple of weeks.


It happens more often then you think. As one of the people in our Israeli office explained:

"Sometimes there is a gunman inside the group of kids. He jumps up and starts shooting. Sometimes you try to get the shooter and end up hitting a kid."

Other than the obvious similarities in posting style and political alignment....

CThis poster's name is "lancastercounty". Corny has a puppet named "allegheny county".

Lancaster County and Allegheny County are both in Pennsylvania. Which is where Corny lives.

Draw your own conclusions....

I get the feeling you used to be someone else around here...who were you?

yeah I thought that was against the rules...

Looks like the pedal on Corny's Bushevik Engine got stuck.

I get the feeling you used to be someone else around here...who were you?

Actually, that poster more evokes amnesia and deja vu at the same time from myself.

I get the feeling you used to be someone else around here...who were you?

arthais101....

I've never said otherwise.

arthais101....

I've never said otherwise.

Ah. I must have missed that memo, then. Um...welcome back? :confused:

arthais101....

I've never said otherwise.

That's a quick buzzkill. You should've gone with the buzz for a while, build some momentum.

Seriously though, i like your posts. Welcome back.

sorry if I seemed a bit...snippy there, It seemed like you were trying to imply something along the lines of "you used to post under a different name, why are you bothering him if he is?"

Which, frankly, I don't care if someone chooses to post under a different name from time to time, or even permanently. It's quite disengenuous however to pretend NOT to be the same person, even to the point of "arguing" with yourself.

If, however, as an aside you were just asking who I was, then sorry if, as I said, I came off a bit snippy.

I probably should pick a new name to be more similar to my old one.

sorry if I seemed a bit...snippy there, It seemed like you were trying to imply something along the lines of "you used to post under a different name, why are you bothering him if he is?"

Which, frankly, I don't care if someone chooses to post under a different name from time to time, or even permanently. It's quite disengenuous however to pretend NOT to be the same person, even to the point of "arguing" with yourself.

If, however, as an aside you were just asking who I was, then sorry if, as I said, I came off a bit snippy.

I probably should pick a new name to be more similar to my old one.

I think you read too much into things. I was, in fact, just asking who you were. But no worries...I really don't care why people start posting with a different name, to be honest. They usually have their reasons. I, for instance, once posted under the name of PIcaRDMPCia a few years ago, but I left NationStates for about a year before returning as Kyronea.

I think you read too much into things.

or am I not reading ENOUGH into things? huh? HUH?!?!?!?!

......

I'm going to bed now...

If you mean the home use ones, then it's interesting they are ok to use for business.
I mean all. All flourescent bulbs have a mercury/argon gas. Without it they stop working. Hatters used to go crazy with mercury poisoning so it's also an industrial hazard. There are safer, more efficient alternatives available (LEDs). They just don't have some pompous celebrity fraud promoting them.

Sure they do. That's why my limited income mother has one.
Yes, they do offer better fuel economy and lower overall emissions, but recycling and production costs--including the mining of materials needed for batteries--create an overall larger environmental footprint than a gas-guzzling Hummer. I'm talking about more than just what goes into the tank.

And example, trees produce paper, which is recycled into low-energy production cellulose (fiberised paper) insulation, then used as an energy-saving device in the ceiling of a home for 40 years, saving 2,000 times the fossil-fuel energy used in its production. All inputs and outputs are considered for all the phases of the life cycle.

Bullshit. There are 2 such farms near my wifes relatives. No coal plants.
They're called peaker plants and operate during high demand. They don't always run on coal, a lot run on natural gas. But they are there. They may not be right under a mill but all major windfarms in the US have peaker plants for those times when the wind just doesn't want to do what you need it to.

Kind of like chopper strikes blasting civilians. Whoops collateral damage.
Better to do it from the air where soldiers are less likely to run over an improv mine hidden in a curb.

So when are you jumping off?
I'm not on one. I'm just questioning the whole "let's blame it all on Bush, he's a popular target" mentality.

Whoa? They are the same?
:D

*waves hands frantically*

SHshishshshshhhshhshhhhhshshhsshhhhSHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
*waves back frantically

BANGS POTS AND PANS......

Maintains low profile

http://www.wtv-zone.com/AnniesTreasures/LINES_PATRIOTIC/firework23.gif

I'm not on one. I'm just questioning the whole "let's blame it all on Bush, he's a popular target" mentality.

In other words, your dismissing people with the "bush hater" defense.

Well as Molly Ivans once wrote:

It is not necessary to hate George W. Bush to think he's a bad president. Grown-ups can do that, you know -- decide someone's policies are a miserable failure without lying awake at night consumed with hatred. Poor Bush is in way over his head, and the country is in bad shape because of his stupid economic policies. If that make me a Bush-hater, then sign me up.

That was meant as a joke. The whole FPS camping thing. You didn't get it or you wouldn't have made a big deal out of it.


“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” - Benjamin Franklin
Diplomacy is when the lamb just keels over and hopes the wolves are gentle.


First, when did Israel do this? Second, you might have an itchy trigger finger if 7/7 happened in the next county every couple of weeks.


So are guns, knives, clubs, arrows, conventional bombs, etc. All of these things, including nukes, have legitimate uses. Ignorant people just like to ignore them so they can maintain the illusion of the validity of their arguments to at least themselves.

No, I got the joke. Just a bad analogy, mostly because international warfare is nothing like playing a video game, despite what you might believe.

No, we are Human Beings who want to encourage thinking and dialogue between nations and not just shoot at eachother. Not wolves or sheep.

Yeah, and you might not care about a few Israeli's if you figure they're occupying your home. We could go back and forth all day, but the truth is both Palestine & Israel is to blame for the mess they have today.

And as for the guns, knives, etc.? One man can't kill millions with a gun:rolleyes:

I'm not on one. I'm just questioning the whole "let's blame it all on Bush, he's a popular target" mentality.

Its not a "let's blame it all on Bush, he's a popular target mentality. Its a "Fuck Bush, he got us into this" mentality.

See, when your a leader, you take the responsibility for what happens...

[QUOTE=FreedomAndGlory;12669989. Just because he won the Nobel prize doesn't mean he's superior to Bush, [/QUOTE]

Actually in this case it does. My nephew got to were the 'best student' medal in school. Hes 5. Hes superior to Bush.

.
First, when did Israel do this? Second, you might have an itchy trigger finger if 7/7 happened in the next county every couple of weeks.
.

Actually a total that large in 6 months would be unusual. On the Israeli side. And when you invade and occupy a country what do you expect? Flowers and choclates?

.
"Sometimes there is a gunman inside the group of kids. He jumps up and starts shooting. Sometimes you try to get the shooter and end up hitting a kid.".

O I'm sure they did. Did they say how its policy to grab the kids and men and march them up the street in fron of your patrol, or use them as rifle rests?

Did he explain that its policy to just shoot stone throwers dead?

And did they explain why they're building civillian settlements outside their own borders?

Gone and good riddance. The president is not, and should not, be immune from criticism, indeed, the president should be the most critiqued person in america, if not the world

I completely agree but that is what we have media for :D

A poster who you are defending who just happens to NOT be you, right?

Wait...Lancaster County, that's in pennsylvania isn't it? Hmm....who else lives in PA...

Rendell, Specter, Casey, Pitts, and many many many more people than I can name.

Why are you debating with yourself Corny?
:confused:

NOt another person who thinks we are the same. *sighs*

Whoa? They are the same?

No we are not.

Somebody sounds like a sore loser, and an elitist one at that. Just because he won the Nobel prize doesn't mean he's superior to Bush, nor does it give him the right to whine like a spoiled brat and undermine the morale of our troops with his pretentious airs.

Someone sounds extraordinarily young and as if they're trying to present the persona of someone who doesn't know how outrageous their statements are.

And yet the American People did not want Nixon to be impeached nor did they want him to resign. *shrugs*

We can add to that list of worst presidents to! We can even add Carter to that list though people here will bitch and moan if that is the case. After all, he did shit while in office and nearly fucked over the military.

Don't forget a Congress that effectively tied his hands.

A President that does squat is a President that is dumb. Bush at least has defended the United States by attacking our enemies.

And look at how amazingly fucked up he's managed to make THAT situation.

Oh and he created two new departments that were not needed at all. Those being Energy and Education. Both of which suck vast amounts of money that could go to other things like... SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICAID, AND MEDICARE!!!

Yes, who needs edjamacashun anyway. Why d'ya need to learn to think when you have guys like Bush attacking other countries, taxing the hell out of the middle class, and sitting back while his friends and cabinet profit from their sa-weet contractor deals.

And gone are the days when a former president kept his mouth shut when it comes to a sitting president. I guess tradition has no place in today's society.

I suppose that having experience in the same job makes someone totally unqualified to offer a professional opinion.

Or that somehow, freedom of speech DOESN'T apply.

Or that it's better to sit by and keep one's mouth shut rather than say, "This really isn't working."

The fabled Ostrich strategy has little to recommend it.

I suppose that having experience in the same job makes someone totally unqualified to offer a professional opinion.

I never said it did not make him unqualified. I was just referring to a gentlemen's agreement that was customary to follow that no past president spoke against the current President.

Or that somehow, freedom of speech DOESN'T apply.

Many ways to criticize a sitting administration without actually mentioning the current administration. It has been done before :D

Or that it's better to sit by and keep one's mouth shut rather than say, "This really isn't working."

The fabled Ostrich strategy has little to recommend it.

Ostrich strategy? I am not suggesting that people stick their heads in the sand. I see to much of that both out in the real world and here on these boards.

It's called a pre-emptive strike and, like camping in any FPS multiplayer match, it is a perfectly legitimate strategy.

The difference is that those who die are not an assortment of pixels that get to respawn.

NOt another person who thinks we are the same. *sighs*

No we are not.

Interesting.

NOt another person who thinks we are the same. *sighs*
The jig is up Corny.

You certailnly get no bonus for style. :p

The jig is up Corny.

You certailnly get no bonus for style. :p

Whatever!

Just because he won the Nobel prize doesn't mean he's superior to Bush.
Errr... yes it does... by several orders of magnitude.

Errr... yes it does... by several orders of magnitude.

It was the peace prize. All he did was work for peace. *shrugs* Arafat got a peace prize too and look what happened? Intifadas anyone?

It was the peace prize. All he did was work for peace. *shrugs*
Rather peace than 200,000 dead Iraqis, and 4 million refugees, no?
Arafat got a peace prize too and look what happened?
Err he was poisoned by Cheron's cronies?
Intifadas anyone?
Largely not anyone's fault, and just a huge morass of chaos, anyone?

Forget the $2 billion a week Bush is burning in Iraq and his uncontrolled borrowing from China to fight this war. Think about his private prisons in Eastern Europe and his private army of mercenaries at Blackwater (located in the North Carolina wilderness). Think about his executive order aimed at annexing Canada and Mexico. Think about King George the theocratic fascist. Now see how well you sleep at night. Carter has understated the extent of Bush's negative impact on Americans.

A prescription for the 25 percent of Americans who still don't get it - read "Bushwhacked" and "Blackwater". If that doesn't change your mind you must be holding stock in Halliburton and Blackwater.

Rather peace than 200,000 dead Iraqis, and 4 million refugees, no?

There I can agree.

Err he was poisoned by Cheron's cronies?

Are you talking about Ariel Sharon? You have proof that Arafat was poisoned by his people?

Largely not anyone's fault, and just a huge morass of chaos, everyone?

If you actually believe that it was not anyone's fault, I have a beach for sale in Miami.

Forget the $2 billion a week Bush is burning in Iraq and his uncontrolled borrowing from China to fight this war. Think about his private prisons in Eastern Europe and his private army of mercenaries at Blackwater (located in the North Carolina wilderness). Think about his executive order aimed at annexing Canada and Mexico. Think about King George the theocratic fascist. Now see how well you sleep at night. Carter has understated the extent of Bush's negative impact on Americans.

A prescription for the 25 percent of Americans who still don't get it - read "Bushwhacked" and "Blackwater". If that doesn't change your mind you must be holding stock in Halliburton and Blackwater.

either that or most of us do not jump on bandwagons but want to look at everything before rendering a decision based off of what politicians and media are saying.

First thing to know when dealing with politics is that you do not trust anyone in the press or other politicians.

There I can agree.
Hurrah.
Are you talking about Ariel Sharon? You have proof that Arafat was poisoned by his people?
Any proof that he wasn't?
If you actually believe that it was not anyone's fault, I have a beach for sale in Miami.
It was largely caused by an Israeli van going into the back of two Palestinian trucks and people being generally Pretty Pissed Off.

This led to a boycott of Israeli goods to start with and then came the various reprisal attacks from both sides. The PLO only got involved in a kind of "errr... YEAH! THAT was the plan all along... yes... errr... hahaha Isreal, we totally started this on purpose! Wooo!" way.

First thing to know when dealing with politics is that you do not trust anyone in the press or other politicians.
Quite. The press isn't called the Cambridge Mafia for nothing, after all.

Other than the obvious similarities in posting style and political alignment....

CThis poster's name is "lancastercounty". Corny has a puppet named "allegheny county".

Lancaster County and Allegheny County are both in Pennsylvania. Which is where Corny lives.

Draw your own conclusions....Whether you choose to believe that someone named "lancastercounty" is in fact another person than someone who has a puppet of "allegheny county", despite the fact that the posting styles and political beliefs are near identical and BOTH names are counties in the state where the person lives, that's your choice. Personally, I'm not one to believe in that much of a coincidence

edit: I don't mean that the posters allegheny county and lancastercounty have said they are in PA. Rather, "Lancaster" and "Allegheny" are the actual names of two counties in PA, as seen here (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/states/pennsylvania.gif).
Dig a little deeper.....you are almost there. :)

Quite. The press isn't called the Cambridge Mafia for nothing, after all.

Yep.

Whatever!De Nile is the longest river in de world!!

De Nile is the longest river in de world!!

However when looked at everything, the Missouri-Mississippi is actually longer and the Amazon River has the most volume.

No we are not.
Incidentally, I am extremely sad that Pennsylvania (sp?) has York and Lancaster next to each other.

Do you people know nothing of the War of the Roses, re-enacted slightly jovially and slightly menacingly at Leeds Festival every year?

Incidentally, I am extremely sad that Pennsylvania (sp?) has York and Lancaster next to each other.

Do you people know nothing of the War of the Roses, re-enacted slightly jovially and slightly menacingly at Leeds Festival every year?

Do not look to me. I did not name the counties.

Do not look to me. I did not name the counties.
Please ring your local congressperson and ask for them to be changed. I'm sure they're bored as hell of people ringing up about Net Neutrality, and would like a bit of variety in their lives :)

Please ring your local congressperson and ask for them to be changed. I'm sure they're bored as hell of people ringing up about Net Neutrality, and would like a bit of variety in their lives :)

But yet, would that not be done at the state level and not at the federal level?

Dig a little deeper.....you are almost there. :)
All we need now is a mod to tell us that the IP addresses are pretty much the same and it's Whoever Noticed First 1, Corny + puppets 0.

Nah, Nixon was worse.

No, he wasn't, because Nixon was held to account and would have been removed from office by impeachment if he hadn't resigned. Bush will get away with everything he has done scot-free.

But yet, would that not be done at the state level and not at the federal level?
I don't know, I'm not from the US. Seeing as I'm continually being asked to Ring My Congressperson (tm) about absolutely everything, from "make the net neutral and free somehow" to "these crisps (chips in the US) are rubbish, have the company shut down" etc., as far as YouTube goes, it might be vaguely reasonable to call them.

All we need now is a mod to tell us that the IP addresses are pretty much the same and it's Whoever Noticed First 1, Corny + puppets 0.

Except that's illegal according to the One Stop Rules Shop. We not only enforce 'em, we play by 'em.

Except that's illegal according to the One Stop Rules Shop. We not only enforce 'em, we play by 'em.
:eek:

Fair enough, I suppose.

Somebody sounds like a sore loser, and an elitist one at that. Just because he won the Nobel prize doesn't mean he's superior to Bush, nor does it give him the right to whine like a spoiled brat and undermine the morale of our troops with his pretentious airs.

You're absolutely right. Having a Nobel Prize does not make anyone superior to president Bush.

Being virtually anyone other than president Bush gives them the right to feel superior to him.

The homeless guy on the corner? He drank himself out of a job, and has several crippling emotional disorders. He's as low as a human being can get. But he didn't start a war that has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. He's superior to Bush.

Charles Manson? Lunatic leader of a cult of lunatics that brainwashed people into murder. But it was less than a hundred people in all. Bush did the same thing with millions of people. Superior to Bush.

A big bag of feces? Noxious odor. Potential cause of cholera and diphtheria. But can help flowers in the garden grow. Bush has been a disaster for the environment. Superior to Bush.

There you have it. Mathematical proof that George W. Bush is inferior to the insane homeless, Charles Manson, and a big bag of feces.

A President that does squat is a President that is dumb. Bush at least has defended the United States by attacking our enemies. Carter, the dumbass that he is, did not do so.

The world isn't a fucking football game, dufus. Go play a video game or something.

The world isn't a fucking football game, dufus. Go play a video game or something.

Does launching an attack on people you do not know make you happy?

Does launching an attack on people you do not know make you happy?

Look, pally: I know ol' Cornfed here as much I care to - more than I care to, truth be told - so just back off.

The only people I know who are "happy about launching attacks on people they don't know" watch FoxNews, drink Red Bull and still cling to the craptacularly-thickheaded notion that Dear Leader is the best thing since sliced bread.

Does launching an attack on people you do not know make you happy? Did launching an invasion of Iraq make you happy?

Did launching an invasion of Iraq make you happy?

No it did not.

No it did not.
But you don't mind defending the guy who launched it. Hmm...

But you don't mind defending the guy who launched it. Hmm...

Where am I defending him?

Where am I defending him?
You're defending his supporters (Or yourself which is what everyone is thinking) therefore you support him. Anyone who seriously believes that Bush is doing a good job deserves to be called an idiot. Because they are. Only an idiot would be so clueless to the idiocy of this President.

And by constantly trying to dis-credit the opposition, you are in fact supporting him.

You're defending his supporters (Or yourself which is what everyone is thinking) therefore you support him. Anyone who seriously believes that Bush is doing a good job deserves to be called an idiot. Because they are. Only an idiot would be so clueless to the idiocy of this President.

And by constantly trying to destroy any credit by the opposition of Bush, you are in fact support him.

Now please point to where I stated or implied that I support this administration.

Look, pally: I know ol' Cornfed here as much I care to - more than I care to, truth be told - so just back off.

The only people I know who are "happy about launching attacks on people they don't know" watch FoxNews, drink Red Bull and still cling to the craptacularly-thickheaded notion that Dear Leader is the best thing since sliced bread.
Ummmm LancasterCounty is defending Corny errr hisself. :D

Lancaster County = Allegheny County = Corny

Ummmm LancasterCounty is defending Corny errr hisself. :D

Lancaster County = Allegheny County = Corny

:rolleyes:

Just continue to believe that sir/ma'am. I cannot stop you from doing so even if it is false.

:rolleyes:

Just continue to believe that sir/ma'am. I cannot stop you from doing so even if it is false.
Thou shalt not lie!! :p

Thou shalt not lie!! :p

Thou shall not bear false witness.

Thou shall not bear false witness.

Oh, you're totally Cornfed. What's with the cheap dimestore disguise?

:rolleyes:

Just continue to believe that sir/ma'am. I cannot stop you from doing so even if it is false.

And it's also a coincidence that both your screen names spout cute proselytizing catchphrases in their signatures too eh Corny?

Here's Exhibit A:

We're the people of God and we're here to say. Livin' for the Lord is the better way. We're the people of God and we're on a quest. Raisin' up the banner of righteousness.

And Exhibit B:

Make them pure and holy by teaching them your words of truth.


John 17:17 NLT

And you wonder why I christened you Communal Property, Corny. Oh by the way, Deep Kimchi called. He said you ripped off a page from his playbook and wants it back or else he's gonna sterilize you like a Muslim.

Nixon and Buchanan are still tops-o'-bad, but Bush is in the top five, fo' sho'.

I'm foreign, so my input is probably worthless, but anyway, I agree with Carter. Although all heads of state are as bad as each other, generally speaking, at least in the big leagues.

Even I'm hard pressed to object to the government of Luxembourg beyond "Yeh, well, it's a government, innit". :p

And it's also a coincidence that both your screen names spout cute proselytizing catchphrases in their signatures too eh Corny?

Here's Exhibit A:



And Exhibit B:



And you wonder why I christened you Communal Property, Corny. Oh by the way, Deep Kimchi called. He said you ripped off a page from his playbook and wants it back or else he's gonna sterilize you like a Muslim.

So a song and a Bible verse equals the same poster? :rolleyes:

the fact that you ignored what everyone else was saying on the matter just shows you to be more like corny every second.

the fact that you ignored what everyone else was saying on the matter just shows you to be more like corny every second.

A couple of inaccuracies have been pointed out by me. Of course, when one looks at what I have been saying here, I am not out supporting this administration as I have been accused of doing.

Anyways, I do not have to sit here and defend myself. You guys can think whatever you like. I, at least, know that what I am saying here is true.

You guys can think whatever you like. I, at least, know that what I am saying here is true.

Yeah....eve online said the same thing...

A couple of inaccuracies have been pointed out by me. Of course, when one looks at what I have been saying here, I am not out supporting this administration as I have been accused of doing.

Anyways, I do not have to sit here and defend myself. You guys can think whatever you like. I, at least, know that what I am saying here is true.
That since everyone elses arguments are wrong or hypocritical, in turn Bush must be right then? THAT's what it looks like you're implying.

Confess!

So a song and a Bible verse equals the same poster? :rolleyes:
You forgot that it was I who made the Corneliu = Allegheny connection?

It is not only Bible quotes that give you away....there is more. :D

That since everyone elses arguments are wrong or hypocritical, in turn Bush must be right then? THAT's what it looks like you're implying.

Confess!

Did I say they were wrong?

You forgot that it was I who made the Corneliu = Allegheny connection?

It is not only Bible quotes that give you away....there is more. :D

oh come on, I thought I was clever picking up the allegheney county and lancaster county being in PA was a good find.

What am I missing?

You forgot that it was I who made the Corneliu = Allegheny connection?

It is not only Bible quotes that give you away....there is more. :D

So basiclly what you are saying is that when people seem to agree on something as fundamental as religion (look at song and verse) they are the same person?

Not likely.

I am a religious person. I will not deny it. I do my best to live according to what God and Jesus want. Do I fall short? Yes I do.

As to these accusations...I will admit that there are similarities but as a Christian and on the Book of the Lord Savior Jesus, I will say that we are not the same person.

As to this thread, do I like Carter? I do like what he is doing in the realm of Human Rights. That is to be comendable and I applaud it wholeheartedly. As to his Presidency, it is just like with any President. He has done good things and really bad things. Overall though, Carter was an average President but I rate him in the top 20.

Do I think he was better than Bush? yes I do but I do think that he, along with all living presidents, should continue the custom of not speaking out against a sitting president.

That is my opinion on this topic.

CH, lay off of them. I've never seen them to be the same person, and LC and AC exhibit different behaviors and tend to take up different issues.

CH, lay off of them. I've never seen them to be the same person, and LC and AC exhibit different behaviors and tend to take up different issues.
You have your thoughts and I have mine. :)

There are other connections that are even closer then the ones brought forward so far. Corny attends Millersville U., which is in Lancaster County, which has a House called Allegheny.

And the Pièce de résistance (from Role Play):

Name: Jason McDougal
Age: 27
Pos. International Affairs Consultant
Hist. Graduated top of his class at Millersville Bible University. He is unmarried and works for the State Department as a Consultant on religious affairs of other nations.
Coincidence? :D

You have your thoughts and I have mine. :)

There are other connections that are even closer then the ones brought forward so far. Corny attends Millersville U., which is in Lancaster County, which has a House called Allegheny.

And the Pièce de résistance (from Role Play):


Coincidence? :D

Oh goodie...

trying to use a roleplay to make a point. In case you also failed to noticed, I had players from all over this county. So yea..prove I live there.

Oh goodie...

trying to use a roleplay to make a point. In case you also failed to noticed, I had players from all over this county. So yea..prove I live there.
Naw.....I know what I know Larry. :)

Naw.....I know what I know Larry. :)

You may know alot but I think you underestimate the power of geography. I was born and raised here in Lancaster.

You have yet to prove that we are the same person and I am really getting tired of defending myself.

You may know alot but I think you underestimate the power of geography. I was born and raised here in Lancaster.

You have yet to prove that we are the same person and I am really getting tired of defending myself.

Corny, Kimchi too was drawing upon Your Beloved Dear Leader Bush George-Dubya's reserves of stubbornness and imperviousness to reality in denying it was him under all those screen names before he eventually gave up and admitted. Save yourself the farce.

Corny, Kimchi too was drawing upon Your Beloved Dear Leader Bush George-Dubya's reserves of stubbornness and imperviousness to reality in denying it was him under all those screen names before he eventually gave up and admitted. Save yourself the farce.

Um you have a problem...I never voted for Dubya.

Um you have a problem...I never voted for Dubya.

No, you do have a problem...

There's four ME-109s coming in at 12 O' clock high while your bombadier and mid-upper gunner are busy playing scrabble!

aww shrubby is pissed:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/20/carter.bush.ap/index.html

aww shrubby is pissed:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/20/carter.bush.ap/index.html

Well someone in this situation certainly is "increasingly irrelevant", but it sure as Hell isn't Jimmy Carter.

Jimmy Carter is also a colossal moron. His own foriegn policies consisted mostly of concessions, concessions, then more concessions until we had nothing left to concede. His commenting on Bush being the "worst president" is both ridicuklous and laughable. Next.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2006/12/13/cstillwell.DTL

Jimmy Carter is also a colossal moron. His own foriegn policies consisted mostly of concessions, concessions, then more concessions until we had nothing left to concede. His commenting on Bush being the "worst president" is both ridicuklous and laughable. Next.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2006/12/13/cstillwell.DTL

No one disagrees Jimmy Carter is one of the worst presidents, but to say he is as bad Bush, or anywhere near? At least Carter was somewhat honest and seems like a good guy, not like Clinton or Bush...

Pot kettle black.


Just another democrap attacking him to aid them in 2008. Carter sucked as prez and can go to hell.

Pot kettle black.


Just another democrap attacking him to aid them in 2008. Carter sucked as prez and can go to hell.

Oh look! Another Repugnantcan defending the Commander-in-Chimp!:rolleyes:

LOOK LOOK! Another idiot democrat making a pointless comment! Pull your head out of your ass and grow up moron.:rolleyes:

How about I shove my foot up yours?:upyours: You got the guts to come up here and make me stop, big man?

Pot kettle black.

Just another democrap attacking him to aid them in 2008. Carter sucked as prez and can go to hell.

To bad you didn't read anything. This action is highly unusual for Carter.

They don't need to attack the shrub. He is helping the Democrats all by himself.

Carter had his problems. Yet Carter managed to accomplish something at Camp David besides taking holidays.

Isn't this the part in the thread where Jocabia usually shows up, acts all smug, then goes running off to Moderation to tattle on everybody?

Or did I miss that bit yet?

Isn't this the part in the thread where Jocabia usually shows up, acts all smug, then goes running off to Moderation to tattle on everybody?

Or did I miss that bit yet?

I couldn't possibly care less what Jocabia does.

To bad you didn't read anything. This action is highly unusual for Carter.

They don't need to attack the shrub. He is helping the Democrats all by himself.

Carter had his problems. Yet Carter managed to accomplish something at Camp David besides taking holidays.



I read enough to know Carter who sucked has no right to say somebody else sucked. They both sucked..End of story...If you can tell me one leader who didn't suck I will eat my hat.

I couldn't possibly care less what Jocabia does.

You and me both, but I'm just sayin'...

:rolleyes:



What an immature idiot. How old are you son? You act likr a 12 year old. Grow up.


And I would come up there, you talk tough because you know I can't, but If we ever met I'd knock the shit out of you..And you obviously deserve it.:rolleyes:

Do it, asshole! I'm beyond tired of you self-righteous assholes with your smug superiority act. You want me to shut up, little man? You make me. And i wouldn't talk about immature if i were you. Your immature comment is what set me off.

Kids. :rolleyes:


Isn't barney on or something?

I'm older than you, kid. Do you think your talk intimdates me? I assure it does not.

I'm older than you, kid. Do you think your talk intimdates me? I assure it does not.



Sure you are. Do you think you are annoying me or scaring me? Try again.


And I am not trying to intimidate you....You think I am? WOW. :rolleyes:

Sure you are. Do you think you are annoying me or scaring me? Try again.


And I am not trying to intimidate you....You think I am? WOW. :rolleyes:

I', mot the one who's been playing the schoolyard bully. Look, I really don't care what your insecurity problem is, but i suggest you work on it on your own time, rather than making these pompous pronouncemnets you make on this forum. You know what? I'm going to do what I should have done the moment I saw you post your BS. I'm putting you on ignore. Thanks for dragging me down to your level.

I', mot the one who's been playing the schoolyard bully. Look, I really don't care what your insecurity problem is, but i suggest you work on it on your own time, rather than making these pompous pronouncemnets you make on this forum. You know what? I'm going to do what I should have done the moment I saw you post your BS. I'm putting you on ignore. Thanks for dragging me down to your level.



Ditto buddy!:rolleyes:

Well, I think the world of Jimmy Carter anyway. And I don't care if my post gets lost in a foaming sea of hateful, vitriolic, bilious waves either.

He's the one President I ever felt was an honest & above-board guy. The only Prez I could really trust.

Well, I think the world of Jimmy Carter anyway. And I don't care if my post gets lost in a foaming sea of hateful, vitriolic, bilious waves either.

He's the one President I ever felt was an honest & above-board guy. The only Prez I could really trust.


I would trust satan over an american president. I have seen too many assholes, liars and general dickheads to ever trust one again...Mostly if they have the party democrat or republican. I don't think the world of any of them. No bias, just general hatred of all presidents. Carter sucked too, so it's silly to say somebody else sucked when so did you. Pot Kettle Black.

I would trust satan over an american president. I have seen too many assholes, liars and general dickheads to ever trust one again...Mostly if they have the party democrat or republican. I don't think the world of any of them. No bias, just general hatred of all presidents. Carter sucked too, so it's silly to say somebody else sucked when so did you. Pot Kettle Black.

I don't think Carter sucked, so no, it's not a case of the 'pot calling the kettle black', not from my point of view.

Is that it? Are we done here, or do you want to reiterate your position for us here again?

Pot kettle black.


Just another democrap attacking him to aid them in 2008. Carter sucked as prez and can go to hell.

First of all, you should never say someone can go to an eternity of burning and darkness. Not very nice.

First of all, you should never say someone can go to an eternity of burning and darkness. Not very nice.




Do you know where you are? People have said worse things here.

I would trust satan over an american president. I have seen too many assholes, liars and general dickheads to ever trust one again...Mostly if they have the party democrat or republican. I don't think the world of any of them. No bias, just general hatred of all presidents. Carter sucked too, so it's silly to say somebody else sucked when so did you. Pot Kettle Black.

How are you going to diss every president in history? What have you done? Why are you so trustworthy? I'm tired of people making stupid comments about "How every presidents sucked, if I was president I would do this, blah blah blah". Have you ever been president? No. Why? Because you don't have the ability.

Don't diss every president and proclaim "they all suck", especially if your just some guy.

And be glad you live in the USA

Do you know where you are? People have said worse things here.

Well, I am fairly new, and tend to try not to attack people personally

How are you going to diss every president in history? What have you done? Why are you so trustworthy? I'm tired of people making stupid comments about "How every presidents sucked, if I was president I would do this, blah blah blah". Have you ever been president? No. Why? Because you don't have the ability.

Don't diss every president and proclaim "they all suck", especially if your just some guy.

And be glad you live in the USA



:rolleyes:



Or maybe it's because I am 26 and not old enough. I also never said anything about what I would do. Also if dubya can be president anybody can.



Be glad I live here? Umm...are you by any chance a neo-con?

Well, I am fairly new, and tend to try not to attack people personally


You'll get your NS legs soon enough, their are a lot of hostile people here. Of course your other post may cause some scorn.

:rolleyes:



Or maybe it's because I am 26 and not old enough. I also never said anything about what I would do. Also if dubya can be president anybody can.



Be glad I live here? Umm...are you by any chance a neo-con?

Neo-Con? God, no, I'm an American

Just don't trash Carter so much, okay? Being a president is a hard job, I'll even give Bush that. It certainly isn't the easiest job in the world, and you came out kind of strongly on Carter. Please don't again.

Neo-Con? God, no, I'm an American

Just don't trash Carter so much, okay? Being a president is a hard job, I'll even give Bush that. It certainly isn't the easiest job in the world, and you came out kind of strongly on Carter. Please don't again.




You do know what a Neo-con is right?



I can trash him all I want, him and bush. Asking people here not trash people will get you nowhere...All it will get you is a verbal version of this...:upyours:

I am not flaming you, just trying to help you.

Between Clinton's 8 years of distraction from handling the affairs of state -- due to all his time being spent on handling a multitude of scandals from Day 1 in office-- and W's (soon to be) 8 years of arrogance, incompetence, corporate cow-towing, and reinstitution of the "Big Lie" Theory in all aspects of government, our next President (poor bastard or bastardess) will have 16 years of baggage to discard before we can move forward again. His/her 4 year term may not be sufficient time to regain the trust of the world or to correct the egregious mistakes, miscalculations, and nearly criminal administration of this Nation's gov't over the last decade and a half.

Jimmy Carter is also a colossal moron. His own foriegn policies consisted mostly of concessions, concessions, then more concessions until we had nothing left to concede. His commenting on Bush being the "worst president" is both ridicuklous and laughable. Next.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2006/12/13/cstillwell.DTL

Not really, and its both apt and true. That book "review" you linked is a more appropriate target for your derision

At least his gave us a nifty catchphrase.

Actually GW wins that one *runs off to guestimate things*

Somebody sounds like a sore loser, and an elitist one at that. Just because he won the Nobel prize doesn't mean he's superior to Bush, nor does it give him the right to whine like a spoiled brat and undermine the morale of our troops with his pretentious airs.

Regardless of his issues with the current Administration, it's always been considered to be very bad form for a former President to speak out against a current one. Add to that the fact that Carter was one of the most ineffective Presidents in our history whose actions led directly to the formation of an Islamist State in Iran and trashed the US economy and I think the man is finally senile.

hahahaha Silly Silly Carter. I just don't listen to Carter anymore, the guy was such a poor president. And if his comments are any indicator (remember he disagreed with Reagans plan to bring down the Soviet Union, which worked) then Bush must be doing quite well.

hahahaha Silly Silly Carter. I just don't listen to Carter anymore, the guy was such a poor president. And if his comments are any indicator (remember he disagreed with Reagans plan to bring down the Soviet Union, which worked) then Bush must be doing quite well.

Don't forget the deal he brokered with N Korea as a 'Special Envoy' during the Clinton administration. It led to one of his prizes...and to N Korea going ahead and building nukes anyways.

About the only effective thing he's ever done was Habitat for Humanity. He should probably just shut up. People in glass houses shouldn't thow stones.

hahahaha Silly Silly Carter. I just don't listen to Carter anymore, the guy was such a poor president. And if his comments are any indicator (remember he disagreed with Reagans plan to bring down the Soviet Union, which worked) then Bush must be doing quite well.


I can't believe you really think Bush is doing well? He has messed up everything he has touched and don't even care because he is making money doing it. In my opinion he is the worst president we have ever had.

I can't believe you really think Bush is doing well? He has messed up everything he has touched and don't even care because he is making money doing it. In my opinion he is the worst president we have ever had.

President Bush: "I have the shitest touch, everything I touch turns to crap!"

President/CEO of Haliburton Bush is the greatest!

President/CEO of Haliburton Bush is the greatest!

Nah, thats Cheney.

Regardless of his issues with the current Administration, it's always been considered to be very bad form for a former President to speak out against a current one.
Says as much about Bush as about Carter.

Add to that the fact that Carter was one of the most ineffective Presidents in our history whose actions led directly to the formation of an Islamist State in Iran
What, Carter was president in '53? News to me.

and trashed the US economy and I think the man is finally senile.
So, the economy had been shite for years beforehand, but it's still his fault, right? He was the first guy to actually do something about it, but like all things with the economy, it only came to fruition after he left office.

I can't believe you really think Bush is doing well? He has messed up everything he has touched and don't even care because he is making money doing it. In my opinion he is the worst president we have ever had.


Ok first of all I didn't say that if you read my qoute I said 'if his comments are any indicator'. I think Bush has made alot of mistakes, I think his still making alot of mistakes, but he certainly isn't the worst. LBJ was a far worse war president. Carter was far worse for the economy (one area Bush has actually improved), and Lincoln 'the Great Emmancipator' was far worse on civil rights (he suspended habeous corpous, refused to let the Maryland state legislature meet, had troops placed at polling stations, did not free any slaves as the Emmancipation Proclamation only 'freed' slaves not under the Unions control, ordered the arrest of a Supreme Court justice, and started the Civil War the bloodiest conflict for America). And Clinton was far worse in personal responsibility and honesty. I know I'll take alot of crap for the last sentence but as hard as it is for most lefties to believe Bush didn't lie. He went on what evidence he had at the time, hindsight is 20/20 and we can see now that invading Iraq was wrong, but at the time with what knowledge he had it was the right thing to do. Clinton had the same information, and many of his qoutes represent that HE BELIEVED Iraq had weapons of mass destruction as well. If you read many left-wing articles from pre-invasion you will see that their main beef (at least the main thing they were talking about) for not going into Iraq was that US troops would have WMD's used against them (OMG THEY LIED!!!), if we would all calm down and treat each other with respect, disagreeing but not demonizing things would be far better.

Regardless of his issues with the current Administration, it's always been considered to be very bad form for a former President to speak out against a current one. Add to that the fact that Carter was one of the most ineffective Presidents in our history whose actions led directly to the formation of an Islamist State in Iran and trashed the US economy and I think the man is finally senile.

Allow me to point out something. The US took the large part in overthrowing a democratic regime and installed the Shah. The Shahs repressive regime aided the growth of an Islamist movement. The US support of the Shah alienated that Islamist movement. Therefore the people responsible for it and
its understandable hostility towards the West are successive US administrations and in particular those who initiated the polic in the 1950's.


And if his comments are any indicator (remember he disagreed with Reagans plan to bring down the Soviet Union, which worked) then Bush must be doing quite well..

Ron was in the chair at the time. Thats about his contribution. He was great for funding nun-rapers and death squads though.


He went on what evidence he had at the time, ..

No, he didn't. Otherwise we wouldnt have memos from the British cabinet that say quite clearly that he wasn't considered a threat.

Also - paragraphs=good.

I read enough to know Carter who sucked has no right to say somebody else sucked. They both sucked..End of story...If you can tell me one leader who didn't suck I will eat my hat.

George Washington.

:rolleyes:



Or maybe it's because I am 26 and not old enough. I also never said anything about what I would do. Also if dubya can be president anybody can.



Be glad I live here? Umm...are you by any chance a neo-con?

Stop attacking people personally. It does absolutely nothing but cause flamewars. I already read on so knock it off.

You do know what a Neo-con is right?



I can trash him all I want, him and bush. Asking people here not trash people will get you nowhere...All it will get you is a verbal version of this...:upyours:

I am not flaming you, just trying to help you.

No you are flaming. If not then it most certainly can be called flamebaiting. BOth of which are against forum rules.

ahh the bushevik apologetics are out in force now I see.

Everyone on my HS chess team made workable construction drawings of either nuclear fission or fusion warheads. Myself included. They're much easier to make than you think. If anything about nukes should scare you, that should be it.

I can make a workable plan for a nuke. Very different from having the required raw material and industry to support the creation and storage of the various components as well as the required intellectual skills to properly assemble it all into a working fission/fusion weapon. Then you have the whole delivery problem...

Project Orion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29) was the first engineering design study for a nuclear pulse rocket.

And the cost to produce the required highly conecentrated U235 required to fuel those explosions (even more if you want the more efficient antimatter catalysed version) as well as the materials (such as a pusher plate) to resist the explosion?

It will only be in the far future that you could actually support those ships that are also used on a near-continuous basis.

For the current abilities of any modern state the best we could do is a nuclear thermal propulsion system, and even that would not be used for exiting the planet (due to safety concerns of the reactor).

I find it utterly hilarious that Jimmy Carter would be calling anybody the worst anything, least of all president! roflmao

Bush Is alright.

No you are flaming. If not then it most certainly can be called flamebaiting. BOth of which are against forum rules.

The christians are defending Bush? How unexpected.

Thinking about Bush angers up the blood. Carter is helping with the medication though.

ahh the bushevik apologetics are out in force now I see.
Yes, all five of them, it seems.

As a person who voted for Bush I say without hesitation I am living through the worst Executive Administration this country has seen thus far.

Carter was not a bad president, he was ineffective...he didnt contribute to the formation of the Islamic State in Iran that is just bad history. He also got the hostages back without blood shed...impressive to me.

LBJ, I am no fan of his but of course I see more justification for Vietnam then Iraq. And vietnam was not the cluster fuck Iraq is, piss poor planning from the outset...and this is a full blown war. Our troops have been betrayed.

Lincoln I also think wasnt a very impressive president...Bush is still worse.
Though both men instigated the wars they had to deal with respectively, at least Lincoln could make some claim to holding the nation togther...Bush can make no such claim.

The christians are defending Bush? How unexpected.

Excuse me what? Where did that come from?

As a person who voted for Bush I say without hesitation I am living through the worst Executive Administration this country has seen thus far.

Carter was not a bad president, he was ineffective...he didnt contribute to the formation of the Islamic State in Iran that is just bad history. He also got the hostages back without blood shed...impressive to me.

LBJ, I am no fan of his but of course I see more justification for Vietnam then Iraq. And vietnam was not the cluster fuck Iraq is, piss poor planning from the outset...and this is a full blown war. Our troops have been betrayed.

Lincoln I also think wasnt a very impressive president...Bush is still worse.
Though both men instigated the wars they had to deal with respectively, at least Lincoln could make some claim to holding the nation togther...Bush can make no such claim.

*smack* Bad Skibby. Bad. No voting for Bush. *smack* Bad, bad, Skibby.

Excuse me what? Where did that come from?

Ignore it. We get blamed for everything around here.

Excuse me what? Where did that come from?

Just a sarcastic comment on the expected.

Ignore it. We get blamed for everything around here.

Well, you did vote for him, so I'd say you are kind of to blame.


Honestly, find me just ONE athiest that voted for Bush. Just one. I would shit myself.

Lincoln I also think wasnt a very impressive president...Bush is still worse.
Though both men instigated the wars they had to deal with respectively, at least Lincoln could make some claim to holding the nation togther...Bush can make no such claim.
Have to love praising the firemen for putting out fires they started on purpose.
Sadly Mr Fireman Bush wants praise without even putting out the fire. He keeps throwing gas on it then has all the pundits and people working for him spinning it off like it's water.

*smack* Bad Skibby. Bad. No voting for Bush. *smack* Bad, bad, Skibby.

I know, I know.
I kick myself in the ass everyday about it.
I thought I was voting conservative...I am still trying to find out what i really did vote...but conservative aint it.

Well, you did vote for him, so I'd say you are kind of to blame.

Look who Bush was running up against. If there was a better candidate, the Democrats would have won the White House.

I know, I know.
I kick myself in the ass everyday about it.
I thought I was voting conservative...I am still trying to find out what i really did vote...but conservative aint it.

My best friend once uttered the phrase "I'd vote for Bush" back in 2004 - only recently has he stopped flinching in preparation for a massive blow everytime I move my hand.

Look who Bush was running up against.

Yeah, an ineffectual, northern democrat blue blood with no firm background against a sitting, wartime president, and still managed to lose by only a few thousand votes

If there was a better candidate, the Democrats would have won the White House.

considering how crappy john kerry was as a candidate, how massively the scales were stacked in bush's favor and how close it came, that's kind of a no duh moment.

Look who Bush was running up against. If there was a better candidate, the Democrats would have won the White House.

I know, Kerry wasn't the best, but look at the package: You'd be done with Bush, you'd have Edwards as a VP, you'd be able to have Karl Rove out on his ass and Rummy might've even been out of a job before resignation.

It would've been fucking awesome.


But no, you had to get hung up on the ONE guy involved you didn't like...

Well, you did vote for him, so I'd say you are kind of to blame.


Honestly, find me just ONE athiest that voted for Bush. Just one. I would shit myself.

That is reaching.
But for a zealot I suppose that is the kind of logic one can expect.
Atheism has never == logic, or good decision making.

Its simply a personal bit of introspection on an issue of society, I am certain there are plenty of people who dont believe in God who voted for Bush...they may not call themselves atheists but blaming Christians for Bush is absurd.
Thats like blaming Muslims or Islam for Bin Laden. Its BushLogic. Think about it. You have become the monster.

Between Clinton's 8 years of distraction from handling the affairs of state -- due to all his time being spent on handling a multitude of scandals from Day 1 in office-- and W's (soon to be) 8 years of arrogance, incompetence, corporate cow-towing, and reinstitution of the "Big Lie" Theory in all aspects of government, our next President (poor bastard or bastardess) will have 16 years of baggage to discard before we can move forward again. His/her 4 year term may not be sufficient time to regain the trust of the world or to correct the egregious mistakes, miscalculations, and nearly criminal administration of this Nation's gov't over the last decade and a half.

I'd say that the world would love to have Clinton back again and that his scandals didn't take up as much time as many would think. Though you could add that Bush would have just as many scandals as Clinton did but had a tame Congress to back him up to ignore any shit he decided to do.

Stating the obvious with Bush I know but he really gets under my skin. Incredible really as I try not to let people irritate me so but that guy does it every time he opens his mouth. Quite a feat.

Look who Bush was running up against. If there was a better candidate, the Democrats would have won the White House.

I make no excuses.
I bought the lines, it wasnt about voting against he other guy...I voted for Bush.

I am not proud of that, but I wont back peddle. I fecked up.

That is reaching.
But for a zealot I suppose that is the kind of logic one can expect.
Atheism has never == logic, or good decision making.

And religion is the paragon of good thinking?

but blaming Christians for Bush is absurd.

actually, no. Christians can be blamed for Bush. Or, more importantly, it was the evangelical movement that threw their weight on bush to get him the nomination, then galvanized support from him, often times in fragrent violation of IRS rules about politicial movements in churches.

The evangelical movement was key in Bush being elected as president. This has all been well documented.

That is reaching.
But for a zealot I suppose that is the kind of logic one can expect.
Atheism has never == logic, or good decision making.

Its simply a personal bit of introspection on an issue of society, I am certain there are plenty of people who dont believe in God who voted for Bush...they may not call themselves atheists but blaming Christians for Bush is absurd.
Thats like blaming Muslims or Islam for Bin Laden. Its BushLogic. Think about it. You have become the monster.

No, I'm not being a zealot or monster when I point out the huge and undeniable impact the religious right had on electing Bush. The religious right, being Christians.

Of course being an athiest doesn't automatically give you better decision-making skills, but the fact remains, I have yet to meet ONE SINGLE ATHIEST that claims to have voted for Bush. Not one! That is just amazing to me! There must be some correllation in there somewhere - not necessarily decision-making skills, but maybe gut instinct - something that allows them to know better than to elect a complete idiot for a second term. They're apparently immune to whatever was going around in 2004.

Excuse me what? Where did that come from?

Well, if you trace everything that is bad in the USA right now you will find that Uber-Christian zealots are the cause of most of it.


George W. Bush :sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper:

Well, if you trace everything that is bad in the USA right now you will find that Uber-Christian zealots are the cause of most of it.


George W. Bush :sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper:

God you make our side look bad. Please go away.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm
That might be one reason you havnt found any Atheists voting for Bush.
I am just saying Christians are not to blame...Americans are.
Well, if you trace everything that is bad in the USA right now you will find that Uber-Christian zealots are the cause of most of it.


George W. Bush No you will find selfserving assholes at the root of it. Lets be clear on that. And as a Christian I havnt seen GW do one Christian thing in office. I think he prays to a picture of himself praying.

EDIT:
I DID NOT VOTE FOR BUSH IN '04.
I was fooled, not rendered senseless.

Isn't this the part in the thread where Jocabia usually shows up, acts all smug, then goes running off to Moderation to tattle on everybody?

Or did I miss that bit yet?

Actually, TBF reported it. The result was that Unholy Smite deleted most of his posts and the entire situation settled without the hammer. Because of this we have something that remotely resembles a conversation. How disappointing that must be.

This isn't the schoolyard. Namecalling and personal attacks aren't appropriate and no one is impressed by the "you tattled" line. I like the rules. I like that they prevent this place from devolving into the kind of nonsense that was starting to happen in this thread. Why you would want it to is beyond me.

I'm also the kind of guy that gets the bouncers attention at a club when I see a fight starting. I worked as a bouncer so I consider it a professional courtesy. Usually, the simple presence of a bouncer is enough to calm the situation down and everybody leaves happy or at least not hurt. The mods are like bouncers and while they aren't preventing actual harm, they have the same purpose, to keep situations from escalating so we can all have a good time.

Your comments don't just insult me. They suggest the mods aren't capable of deciding on whether an issue has merit when they've seen it. If no merit to something reported, no harm.

And if there is merit, one wonders why it would matter to you that it was reported. Do you not like the rules? Do the mods just look for an excuse for the hammer? Do you somehow gain by the fact they are too busy to see everything on their own?

Honestly, what can you possibly hope to gain by your comment? You might as well have wrote "I don't like Jocabia and if you don't like him too will you be my friend?" I can think of no other reason to post such a comment.

Honestly, what can you possibly hope to gain by your comment? You might as well have wrote "I don't like Jocabia and if you don't like him too will you be my friend?" I can think of no other reason to post such a comment.

Quoting the only relevant part of that post.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm
That might be one reason you havnt found any Atheists voting for Bush.

Yeah, I remember that. It is just like Bush to declare that certain people aren't really Americans because they don't believe as he does. To me it really shows the characters of certain segments of the population though who can hear about this kind of statement and still feel comfortable voting for this guy. Though I've always wondered what happened to the so-called intelligence of people in 2004 to actually re-elect this guy.

One can only hope though in 2008 that the evangelicals will stay home given how they seem displeased with the current crop of GOP candidates. Keeping that group away from voting would certainly help the Dems, especially if Hillary Clinton gets the nod, I don't see her getting a single religious vote.

And religion is the paragon of good thinking?



actually, no. Christians can be blamed for Bush. Or, more importantly, it was the evangelical movement that threw their weight on bush to get him the nomination, then galvanized support from him, often times in fragrent violation of IRS rules about politicial movements in churches.

The evangelical movement was key in Bush being elected as president. This has all been well documented.

It's your specificity that makes you correct. Evangelicals are Christians, but Christians are not necessarily evangelicals.

It's not Christians who are responsible and it's inappropriate to claim it was. We're liberals. We should be above tarring everyone with the same brush because it's easier than being more accurate. Black people aren't criminals. Muslims aren't terrorists. And Christians aren't responsible for Bush.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm
That might be one reason you havnt found any Atheists voting for Bush.
I am just saying Christians are not to blame...Americans are.
No you will find selfserving assholes at the root of it. Lets be clear on that. And as a Christian I havnt seen GW do one Christian thing in office. I think he prays to a picture of himself praying.

EDIT:
I DID NOT VOTE FOR BUSH IN '04.
I was fooled, not rendered senseless.

Oh, you voted for him in '00? Well that's okay. No matter how many people did or didn't vote for him in that one, he would've won. Fixing bastards.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it ironic when the worst president I've seen in my years on this earth (43) calls the current president the worst president in the history of the country.... Too funny.

Oh well, maybe he's just passing the baton.... :rolleyes:

Quoting the only relevant part of that post.

The excerpted quote should read,

will you be my friend?

The answer, of course, being left to the individual to decide for themselves. I say, 'no'. For more information as to why I'd say 'no', please feel free to inquire via TG to: Dobbsworld, c/o Outer Ionosphere.

It's your specificity that makes you correct. Evangelicals are Christians, but Christians are not necessarily evangelicals.

It's not Christians who are responsible and it's inappropriate to claim it was. We're liberals. We should be above tarring everyone with the same brush because it's easier than being more accurate. Black people aren't criminals. Muslims aren't terrorists. And Christians aren't responsible for Bush.

It's much easier and not all that inaccurate to say Christians are responsible as opposed to saying Catholics and Evangelicals are responsible - if for nothing but that I hadn't seen a specific Christian group rise up to try and counter those two specific sects' influence.

Yeah, I remember that. It is just like Bush to declare that certain people aren't really Americans because they don't believe as he does. To me it really shows the characters of certain segments of the population though who can hear about this kind of statement and still feel comfortable voting for this guy. Though I've always wondered what happened to the so-called intelligence of people in 2004 to actually re-elect this guy.

One can only hope though in 2008 that the evangelicals will stay home given how they seem displeased with the current crop of GOP candidates. Keeping that group away from voting would certainly help the Dems, especially if Hillary Clinton gets the nod, I don't see her getting a single religious vote.

Wow, just wow. I didn't know that. I actually liked elder Bush. I guess I just wasn't savvy enough back then to have noticed something like that and I'm from Chicago. How sad that he said that. Obviously, I can't help but disagree. Somehow I think the guy who was next to me in the service and didn't believe in God earned his citizenship at least as much as our current president.

It's your specificity that makes you correct. Evangelicals are Christians, but Christians are not necessarily evangelicals.

It's not Christians who are responsible and it's inappropriate to claim it was. We're liberals. We should be above tarring everyone with the same brush because it's easier than being more accurate. Black people aren't criminals. Muslims aren't terrorists. And Christians aren't responsible for Bush.

Nicely put. Thank you.

Wow, just wow. I didn't know that. I actually liked elder Bush. I guess I just wasn't savvy enough back then to have noticed something like that and I'm from Chicago. How sad that he said that. Obviously, I can't help but disagree. Somehow I think the guy who was next to me in the service and didn't believe in God earned his citizenship at least as much as our current president.

I'm sure his son was a great improvement as well. The like father like son is unfortunately sadly understated here.

Wow, just wow. I didn't know that. I actually liked elder Bush. I guess I just wasn't savvy enough back then to have noticed something like that and I'm from Chicago. How sad that he said that. Obviously, I can't help but disagree. Somehow I think the guy who was next to me in the service and didn't believe in God earned his citizenship at least as much as our current president.

Here is the thing with Bush Senior. You liked him and he said this...because he did nothing to make you say "Hey, this guy is mixing religion and politics" he voiced an honest answer to a question, and still up held the Seperation of Church and State. His son, never made such a statement but it is clear who would rip down the wall. Bush senior wasnt a bad president or a bad guy, his son in my opinion is both. I find him offensive to my faith, I find him offensive as politician, as a president, and as the head of our state which the rest of the world looks upon to represent us.

Bush sensior said something you dont like, cool. But his term was tolerable to you...Bush GW said nothign like this....but feck me if he isnt far more threatening then dad.

It's much easier and not all that inaccurate to say Muslims are responsible as opposed to saying Sunnis and Shiites are responsible - if for nothing but that I hadn't seen a specific Muslim group rise up to try and counter those sects' influence.(EDIT)

You sound like Deep Kimchi. I'll show you. You can't tar people with a big brush because groups they don't like and don't support have done something they don't approve of. I'm a Christian and Evangelicals get as much support from me as terrorists do. In fact, on occasion, people qualify for both of those terms. I am not responsible for countering their actions any more than you are.

Dubya is obviously the worst president in my (admittedly short) lifetime. No contest.

My parents have told me that he's the worst in their lifetimes, and they are informed and honest individuals whom I have no reason to mistrust.

My grandfather insists that Taft was worse, but then he also insists that life was better back before the horseless carriage ruined everything by allowing people to ride when they oughta be walking, uphill both ways. It is unclear when my grandfather was born, but I believe he pre-dates the invention of the wheel.

You sound like Deep Kimchi. I'll show you. You can't tar people with a big brush because groups they don't like and don't support have done something they don't approve of. I'm a Christian and Evangelicals get as much support from me as terrorists do. In fact, on occasion, people qualify for both of those terms. I am not responsible for countering their actions any more than you are.

*shrugs* Usually I'd agree, but in this case I think the christian sects should've said something. Because they didn't, many members of other sects felt semi-compelled to vote for him just because he was seemingly surrounded by all this positive christian praise.

Again, I realize I'm tarbrushing here, but I think in this context it's necessary.

From a foreign perspective, Bush has been the worst in my lifetime. But had he not gone to Waaaaaaaarrrrr in 2001, I reckon he'd've just been incompetant rather than head-holding exasperatingly hideously appalling.

It was the Waaaaaaarrrrrrrr you see.

I mean, Clinton was a tosser too, particularly with the whole "Hurr, I n00k pharmacy to detract from my blow-jobs!" thing, but compared to Bush 2 he looks like a paragon of virtue.

Bush 1 was at least intelligent.

Bush sucks, that's for certain.

But, the economy has done far better under Bush than it did under Carter.

And while we're involved in a war with no fashionable ending, for reasons of "pre-emption", we're also not being embarassed by the taking of hundreds of American hostages.

I seem to recall a lot of angry people in the US voting against Carter solely for that reason.

He also came close to completely disbanding Special Forces in the US - probably the most useful arm of our military in fighting against decentralized opponents.

Harold Brown, his SecDef, was a smart guy, and PD-59 was written by him, not Carter, and implemented by Reagan. PD-59 is probably responsible for putting the last stake in the heart of the former Soviet Union.

Oh, and as for what Carter says - he's bought and paid for with Arab money:
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976879837

Well, if you trace everything that is bad in the USA right now you will find that Uber-Christian zealots are the cause of most of it.


George W. Bush :sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper:

What a nice little troll you are.

...as for what Carter says - he's bought and paid for with Arab money:
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976879837

As opposed to Bush, who's just bought and paid for with oil money. Or Blair, who's bought and paid for by any old fool with a bank account *cough Bernie Ecclestone cough*, or indeed any other politician.

Because NO politician EVER is corrupt!!!!!!!!1! :p