NationStates Jolt Archive

North & South KOREA reach symbolic milestone in a reconciliation process
15 minutes ago

MUNSAN, South Korea - The divided Koreas sent trains lumbering through their heavily armed border for the first time in more than half a century Thursday, reaching another symbolic milestone in a reconciliation process often hindered by the North's nuclear weapons ambitions.
ADVERTISEMENT

Firecrackers and white balloons filled the skies near the border as a five-car train started rolling north on a restored track on the west side of the peninsula. On the eastern side, a North Korean train crossed into the South on another reconnected rail line where it was greeted by children bearing flowers.

It was the first train crossing of the 2.5-mile-wide no man's land dividing the two sides since inter-Korean rail links were cut off early in the 1950-53 Korean War.

The trial run was the latest symbol of a historic reconciliation that the longtime foes began pursuing with the first-ever summit of their leaders in 2000. That summit has led to a series of exchange projects, including the opening of cross-border roads that thousands of South Koreans cross each year as tourists, or to work in special enclaves in the North.

http://news.yahoo.com/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070517/ap_on_re_as/koreas_restoring_rails

They should do like Germany and reunite.

http://news.yahoo.com/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070517/ap_on_re_as/koreas_restoring_rails

They should do like Germany and reunite.
Unlike the former East Germany though, North Korea still maintains an iron grip on its people. They won't give up power.

It's a step in the right direction.

Unlike the former East Germany though, North Korea still maintains an iron grip on its people. They won't give up power.

But maybe contact between the two will help loosen their grip a little

But maybe contact between the two will help loosen their grip a little
If the North allows the contact. Every time they seemingly take a step forward, they suddenly take two steps back.

Communism is quite poisonous, but if the North will accept a freer market and perhaps some freedom, I can imagine reconciliation in the semi-near future.

North Korea needs to get some freedom and democracy first.

Communism is quite poisonous, but if the North will accept a freer market and perhaps some freedom, I can imagine reconciliation in the semi-near future.

Communism is no more poisonous than capitalism.

The form of communism used in these nations is not true communism. It is a hard-handed authoritarian dictatorship because in a true communist nation people would not be so unequal from the leadership. The leadership would be more democratic than it is now.

Communism is no more poisonous than capitalism.

The form of communism used in these nations is not true communism. It is a hard-handed authoritarian dictatorship because in a true communist nation people would not be so unequal from the leadership. The leadership would be more democratic than it is now.

I keep hearing that, but then I look at actual Communist states.. :p

Kinda like saying, "I should also mention that I'm the world's greatest golfer, so long as you grant me several dozen mulligans." ;)

The problem is that Kim Jong-Il would be out of power at the first post-reunification election, and he's not going to relinquish power until they pry it from his cold, dead hands.

The problem being that it doesn't look like it will any time soon.

It's a real shame. I have a few relatives who have spent time in Korea, and it seems that there are a lot of good people being kept down.

Communism is quite poisonous, but if the North will accept a freer market and perhaps some freedom, I can imagine reconciliation in the semi-near future.
The problem being that it doesn't look like it will any time soon.

The problem is that Kim Jong-Il would be out of power at the first post-reunification election, and he's not going to relinquish power until they pry it from his cold, dead hands.

That's why any "korea re-unification" will prolly not happen until after this arsehole dies.

..but what are the odds that the next leader is going to be different? In all honmesty, even if Kim Jong-Il DOES drop dead, things probably won't change -- they'd need a coup. :/

dp

I keep hearing that, but then I look at actual Communist states.. :p


There's no such thing. "Communist State" is a contradiction in terms.

Anyway... You beat me to it, OD; I was going to post this. ;) It's a positive step in the right direction, of course, albeit a small step that took a long time coming. They'd been talking about doing this for years.


The trains carried 100 South Koreans and 50 North Koreans
-- including celebrities, politicians and a South Korean
conductor from one of the last trains to cross before the rail
link was cut in 1951.

"Today the heart of the Korean peninsula will start beating
again," South Korean Unification Minister Lee Jae-joung said
before the crossing. "The trains represent the dreams, the
hopes and the future of the two Koreas."

The train from the South was seen off to fireworks,
traditional drumming and hundreds of people waving flags
showing a unified Korean peninsula in blue on a white
background.

[...]

South Korea, mindful of the hundreds of billions of dollars
it would cost to unify with its impoverished neighbour, has
sought a series of projects to gradually bring the two
together.

[...]

Eventually, South Korea, which only shares a border with
the North, said it wants to send passengers and cargo via its
neighbour into China and Russia and link with the
Trans-Siberian railway. Export-dependent South Korea could see
huge savings in moving cargo if North Korea allows the rail
link.


(article (http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/news/world/20070517-South-North-Korea-inter-Korean-border-train.html))

The BBC has pictures (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/6664663.stm).

There's no such thing. "Communist State" is a contradiction in terms.

Anyway... You beat me to it, OD; I was going to post this. ;) It's a positive step in the right direction, of course, albeit a small step that took a long time coming. They'd been talking about doing this for years.



(article (http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/news/world/20070517-South-North-Korea-inter-Korean-border-train.html))

The BBC has pictures (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/6664663.stm).

would you accept to be the you the official co-sponsor of the thread?

..but what are the odds that the next leader is going to be different? In all honmesty, even if Kim Jong-Il DOES drop dead, things probably won't change

Indeed. When Kim Il-Sung died thirteen years ago, many people predicted that the system would collapse. Instead, Kim Jong-Il consolidated power and proved to the world that he was far less sane and reasonable than his father had been.

There won't be a coup against Kim junior. He's made the army his priority, and showers them with privileges. They're firmly on his side.

But maybe contact between the two will help loosen their grip a littleIf the North allows the contact.This train is all about allowing contact.

There's no such thing. "Communist State" is a contradiction in terms.


Doesn't ever seem to work out that way. There isn't usually any confusion over where a Communist state begins and ends. You notice pretty quickly. ;)

This train is all about allowing contact.
This isn't the start of regular train service, this was a photo op that spent about an hour in each respective country before turning around. The train lines were re-connected in 2003, it's now 2007 and they are JUST doing the symbolic first run.

Check the math and re-read the part where it notes that North Korea kept finding ways to delay this.

Like I said, IF North Korea allows the contact.

Like I said, IF North Korea allows the contact.
Which, considering their current attitude to the outside world (sssh, it doesn't exist), they won't.

would you accept to be the you the official co-sponsor of the thread?

Yes, all right. :p

Doesn't ever seem to work out that way. There isn't usually any confusion over where a Communist state begins and ends. You notice pretty quickly. ;)

I'm not denying that these are dictatorships run by Communist Parties, and that's why they're usually refered to as "Communist states". What I mean is that, stricto sensu, a "communist state" is quite literally a contradiction in terms, since communism is defined as the absence of a state. (Communism is the stage which follows on from State Socialism after the state has "withered away" and is no longer needed).

A government run by a Communist Party is, theoretically, a socialist government which claims to be preparing the way for its own abolishment and for the attainment of communism. Obviously this has never happened (in the USSR, North Korea or elsewhere.) If you want to be accurate, though, North Korea is a "socialist" state, since a "communist state" is literally a contradiction in terms. ;)

Like I said, IF North Korea allows the contact.
I consider this (family reunions) contact.. started under Kim BTW ;)
First group from US heads to NKorea for family reunionsWed May 16, 2:44 AM ET

SEOUL (AFP) - A group of Korean-Americans was to visit North Korea on Wednesday for the first family reunions for Koreans living abroad, Yonhap news agency reported.

It said the group of 15 would begin an eight-day visit that will include face-to-face reunions with family members, a visit to the Arirang Festival and a tour of the Panmunjom border truce village.

Thousands of South and North Koreans have held family reunions since a full-scale programme began in 2000. But Yonhap said this is the first time that ethnic Koreans living abroad have been officially allowed into the North to meet their kin.Sources: Yahoo/AFP/Yonhap News Agency.

Unlike the former East Germany though, North Korea still maintains an iron grip on its people. They won't give up power.

East Germany had the problem of a nice, tempting free city right in the people's faces that made it look as though the grass was greener on the other side. In fact, it made it pretty clear that it was.

North Korea? I'd say that the original NK leadership read "1984" and took very good notes. Yes, the people live in squalor, and a privileged class rules over everyone with an iron fist, but they seem to have succeeded in making everyone love the state. From what I understand, Kim Jong Il is the closest thing the NK people have to a god. It's also a bit insane making a dead man the President, but it seems to parallel Big Brother, a non-existent person, ruling Oceania. If Kim told them that two plus two was five, they would believe it without question, and for all I know, he has.

At the very least, the people are so poor, hungry, and destitute that overthrowing Kim is completely hopeless. And they're so in love with the state that trying to improve their situation would only strengthen Kim, who would weaken them again and place the blame on outsiders. Sadly, a full-scale occupation or an utter collapse of the state is the only hope, and neither is really a valuable option. I hate to say it, but North Korea's a lost cause.

The other problem in Korea is that the North Korean media potray the south koreans as hapless downtrodden victims of US occupation, they dont ever mention the booming economy or the fact theres 55 million south koreans compared to some 21 million north koreans, when both countries started from the same point in 1953.


All opening the borders will do is ensure theres a loud stampede of feet rushing south when they find out what is really going on in the south, and north korea will do an east germany and fold up before our eyes.

For that reasont Kim jong loony will not reduce his grip on power until he's very firmly dead.......and even then maybe not:eek: Zombie president!

The East German government lost it's ability to govern, which is a major reason for the Wiedervereinigung. The DPRK, on the other hand, has not lost its ability to govern, and Kim will never willingly relinquish power.

One Train
Two Koreas

Sounds fun. :p

The other problem in Korea is that the North Korean media potray the south koreans as hapless downtrodden victims of US occupation, they dont ever mention the booming economy or the fact theres 55 million south koreans compared to some 21 million north koreans, when both countries started from the same point in 1953.

With North Korea having nearly all of the existing industrial infrastructure at that point in time, nonetheless!

There can be such a thing as a communist state... just not a Marxist one.

Sorry, pet peeve. Don't like the common perception of Marx as the father of communism.

Anyhoo, back on track (no pun intended, which is good, because it would have been lame), you have to love the DPRK. Not so much if you live there, or within artillery/abduction range of there, but it is great value from afar. Did I hear correctly, Seoul had to promise Pyongyang US$100million in further aid before the North would even agree to this likely one-off photo-op?

That'll go some way to reducing Kim's need to, you know, listen to what anyone else has to say about his nuclear programme.

only one #

so what do you have against koreans, how come this thread only gets one #

so what do you have against koreans, how come this thread only gets one #typo, me bad.

I will somehow make it up to Korea.. maybe Ill send them a giant rabbit or sumthing :D

http://news.yahoo.com/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070517/ap_on_re_as/koreas_restoring_rails

They should do like Germany and reunite.

Good for them. They're rolling in the right direction, to be sure, though they're definitely not ready for reunification just yet.