NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, this year's Budget was quite a yawnful event. The following were the goodies on offer

- Business tax cut to 30%
- Complex Kiwi Saver scheme where your employer, the government and you can put in certain amounts of money
- Auckland rail electrification
- New regional fuel tax

The full details are here

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/feature/index.cfm?c_id=1501194

What do you think?

It's too big.

Business tax? Do you mean the corporate income tax? Because that would be quite high.

It's too big.

What is?

Also, we call corporate income taxes business tax or company tax down here

Millitary gets 0%

I am indifferent towards the New Zealand budget.

Millitary gets 0%

Actually, there is a slight increase in military spending, although not much (about $50 million if I recall)

Actually, there is a slight increase in military spending, although not much (about $50 million if I recall)

still too small

Well, you got to know Cullen, no extra spending because it is inflationary, except for election year

What is?



The budget.

I am indifferent towards the New Zealand budget.

kthnxbi

Well, you got to know Cullen, no extra spending because it is inflationary, except for election year

guess they don't have a surplus to play with

Yeah... not much in there in there to promote sustainability, cut our greenhouse emissions, or tackle the massive student debt problem; it cuts the bussiness tax rate but does nothing to help the worst off.

Nothing to help solve the housing crisis - ie a capital gains tax would be a very good step, but Labour is too politically cautious at this stage to deal with it.

Oh yeah and the pointless kiwi saver scheme. Whats wrong with the superfund?

Pretty conservative/centrist budget really. Overall pretty visionless.

The only positive really is the long over due commitment to electrify Auckland's rail system,
bringing it forward to 20th century standards.



Still... better than what National would come up with.

[LEFT]Yeah... not much in there in there to promote sustainability, cut our greenhouse emissions, or tackle the massive student debt problem; it cuts the bussiness tax rate but does nothing to help the worst off.

The Student debt was addressed in the budget before last with the interest-write off... that was pretty significant I think (especially for us ex-students ;) )

Pretty conservative/centrist budget really. Overall pretty visionless.

I am pleased that the political language is shifting toward encouraging savings and investment, however. That is way, way WAY overdue. The credit card debt is particularly alarming - a change in spending culture is definitely needed. One in which putting money into a mortgage is not considered the only (or best) way to increase low and middle class wealth.

The only positive really is the long over due commitment to electrify Auckalnd rail system, bringing it forward to 20th century standards.


Yes, that is also overdue, along with the capital's rail system (which is also being upgraded)...

There were no surprises in the budget at all, considering todays paper (which came out before the budget) predicted all of the notable things. Next year, Cullen will start promising tax cuts blah blah blah blah National will win by a decent margin. It's not quite the 1990 election, but it's not a hard one to pick.

Actually, there is a slight increase in military spending, although not much (about $50 million if I recall)

Whoa, we increased ours 40x more than your increase.

guess they don't have a surplus to play with

They don't have the sheer amount of natural resources and sellable government groups. That and not as much use of PPPs (Victoria's problem).


- Auckland rail electrification

What do you think?

Why do you need to electrify the rail?

Why do you need to electrify the rail?

To stop people pissing on the tracks.

Why do you need to electrify the rail?
Well, I'm assuming that it runs in the city, and that having diesel powers rail in urban areas isn't really particularly healthy.

Well, I'm assuming that it runs in the city, and that having diesel powers rail in urban areas isn't really particularly healthy.

I am wondering if it was plans to have the rail itself electrified (from an overhanging wire setup).

i think it refers to actually having commuter style trains running in auckland rather than just having long-haul diesel transports, but don't quote me on that.
Anyway, disappointing budget, basically a continuance of the rather revoltingly hypocritical political trend in nz govt where the govt of the day looks after its' generation at the expense of its' (working age) children.
Note how super is being ramped up and that nice big surplus is tucked away there?
That's not for us, that's for retiring baby-boomers, much like the student allowance system was great for the current people in parliament's time at uni, not so great for anyone attending after the early 90s.
But meh, bitching about political hypocrisy is my day job, not for my NS occupation.
(Incidentally, to the australians whining about disproportionate defence spending, yes we free-ride somewhat, but tough. You increase spending because you want to be a "substantive" power, to quote your foreign minister. We don't, so we won't.)

(Incidentally, to the australians whining about disproportionate defence spending, yes we free-ride somewhat, but tough. You increase spending because you want to be a "substantive" power, to quote your foreign minister. We don't, so we won't.)

Did I sound like I was whining? I was just pointing out the disproportionate amount that has been increased here.

Whilst you do to some extent don't have to spend as much on defense because we are here it also means we benefit from the U.S' military prescence in the world.

There are other ways to improve standing in the region and the millitary spending seems to be a bit odd such as planning to have all combat jets being replaced by the F35 (which probably isn't best to have it as an all-roles combat jet) whilst also purchasing the F18-F planes to cover the amount of time it would take to get the F35s.

guess they don't have a surplus to play with
LOL, no that's not how it is.

To stop people pissing on the tracks.

No-one builds third-rail these days, unless it is a Metro system

Why do you need to electrify the rail?

Because Britomart absolutely stinks of diesel fumes in the mornings. Also, there are capacity issues and since we are needing to purchase fresh rolling stock, we might as well electrify.

Whoa, we increased ours 40x more than your increase.

Well, given that our riskiest mission is to Afghanistan, it is not surprising. New Zealand is not aiming to be a regional power like the enemies across the ditch. I suppose our military could do with a bit more of a beef up, but as I said before, Cullen only spends/gives tax cuts at election year.

NZ has a compulsary super system now? Australia's had one for quite a while. I'm not going even going try to explain ours ... too !@#$%^&*() complicated.

Well, this year's Budget was quite a yawnful event. The following were the goodies on offer

- Business tax cut to 30%
- Complex Kiwi Saver scheme where your employer, the government and you can put in certain amounts of money
- Auckland rail electrification
- New regional fuel tax

The full details are here

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/feature/index.cfm?c_id=1501194

What do you think?
I'm still waiting for my fucken Battleboat.:mad:

NZ has a compulsary super system now? Australia's had one for quite a while. I'm not going even going try to explain ours ... too !@#$%^&*() complicated.
I think we used to have one but National took it away...

I think we used to have one but National took it away...

Don't copy Australia's. Keeps on changing every damn budget and confusing everyone.

Millitary gets 0%

Yes, that's right, don't resist Australian annexation, embrace it!

Yes, that's right, don't resist Australian annexation, embrace it!

Does NZ have WMDS? :D

Don't copy Australia's. Keeps on changing every damn budget and confusing everyone.
I have read nothing of it, of either in fact.
Oh, if i had my way...

There were no surprises in the budget at all, considering todays paper (which came out before the budget) predicted all of the notable things. Next year, Cullen will start promising tax cuts blah blah blah blah National will win by a decent margin. It's not quite the 1990 election, but it's not a hard one to pick.
You can remember that?
What were you, five?o_O

Or was that Drunk Muldoon year?
How could you forget. :p

our military is tiny our stupid PM helen clark aolod our airforce.:mad:

our military is tiny our stupid PM helen clark aolod our airforce.:mad:

I hate when people aolod things. It's just not right.

You can remember that?
What were you, five?o_O

Or was that Drunk Muldoon year?
How could you forget. :p


I'm a pol sci major :p

I know about things like this. For instance: Electorate MP who won by the largest margin at the last election: The now independent Taito Phillip Field in Mangere. The winner by the lowest margin: Darren Hughes in Otaki.

Random.

our military is tiny our stupid PM helen clark aolod our airforce.:mad:

At least you don't use them to invade Middle Eastern nations! :p

There were no surprises in the budget at all, considering todays paper (which came out before the budget) predicted all of the notable things. Next year, Cullen will start promising tax cuts blah blah blah blah National will win by a decent margin. It's not quite the 1990 election, but it's not a hard one to pick.
Labour certainly haven't done themselves much favours this time round with their bickerings and infightings and the stench of corruption hanging over them.

Always seems to happen. Ruling party sort of self-destructs after their 3rd or 4th election.

As for the 1990 election - I pray to Gods that what comes after the next election doesn't mirror what happened in the early 1990s.
It was not a good time to be a uni student and then a noob job seeker.

our military is tiny our stupid PM helen clark aolod our airforce.:mad:
Tell me about it. We need a much bigger military. Any day now those damn Chatham islanders are gonna declare independence and then war on us - and we'll have no-one to protect us!
Helen, you rotten cow. When those inbreds are marching down Lambton Quay, may yours be the first body they dangle from the lampposts.

Tell me about it. We need a much bigger military. Any day now those damn Chatham islanders are gonna declare independence and then war on us - and we'll have no-one to protect us!
Helen, you rotten cow. When those inbreds are marching down Lambton Quay, may yours be the first body they dangle from the lampposts.

Meh, you can just ship off some more Maori people and let them put a stop to it.

(What does aolod mean?)

As far as the NZ military goes, basically even if we maxed out the budget we could reasonably spend on it, we'd still be fucked if we got invaded. As long as we are fulfilling our peacekeeping obligations (which I believe we have to a certain extent if we want to make any sort of difference) then I'm happy enough with the military spending. As it is, I believe we do this.

Labour certainly haven't done themselves much favours this time round with their bickerings and infightings and the stench of corruption hanging over them.

Always seems to happen. Ruling party sort of self-destructs after their 3rd or 4th election.

As for the 1990 election - I pray to Gods that what comes after the next election doesn't mirror what happened in the early 1990s.
It was not a good time to be a uni student and then a noob job seeker.

Agreed, and announcing Auckland rail electrification is never a good omen for Labour, they have announced it thrice (in 1949, 1959 and 1975) and lost the subsequent election.

Also, I don't think the same thing will happen as with the 1990 election - Key and the present lot of National people are much different to their 1990s brethren; I would be more worried about Labour, because virtually their whole front bench is old MPs from the 1980s. Also, the economy is not as f**ked as it was in 1990.

Also, I happen to have a basic interest in politics and here is this as a fact for you - in the 1996 election, the newly formed Manukau East electorate was expected to go to National; however, in the end, it went to former Labour MP for Papatoetoe Ross Robertson.

Also, KiwiSaver is not a compulsory scheme, however, people are automatically enrolled when they start a new job and have to opt out.

Great thread!

Its good to read stuff like this from other parts of the world...

/fades to a slightly sepia tinged orange grey with a hint of lollipop....

Also, I don't think the same thing will happen as with the 1990 election - Key and the present lot of National people are much different to their 1990s brethren; I would be more worried about Labour, because virtually their whole front bench is old MPs from the 1980s. Also, the economy is not as f**ked as it was in 1990.

I hope you're right (about the potential Key government), because I am seeing deja vu in the form of the new "social caring" face of National's policies... they did the same thing ahead of the 1990 election, and got in on that mandate; only to put even harsher versions of policies Roger Douglas had in place.

I still remember John Banks (then the shadow Police Minister) promising to increase police numbers by 500. How did they do it? By merging the MOT (traffic cops) into the Police force. :rolleyes:

I still remember John Banks (then the shadow Police Minister) promising to increase police numbers by 500. How did they do it? By merging the MOT (traffic cops) into the Police force. :rolleyes:
or how about Lockwood Smith's pledge to scrap the student fee?
he did, but then cut funding to the universities by an equivalent amount - so it wasn't the govt demanding the fee, but the university.:rolleyes:

I hope you're right (about the potential Key government), because I am seeing deja vu in the form of the new "social caring" face of National's policies... they did the same thing ahead of the 1990 election, and got in on that mandate; only to put even harsher versions of policies Roger Douglas had in place.

I still remember John Banks (then the shadow Police Minister) promising to increase police numbers by 500. How did they do it? By merging the MOT (traffic cops) into the Police force. :rolleyes:

The difference between now and 1990 is that the New Zealand economy and the New Zealand Government's books are not as messed up - what Richardson did was in a way necessary - the government was running into some serious financial issues, and hence the Fiscal Responsibility Act was passed to stop things like that happening again. You also have the MMP environment, National is going to need a coalition partner who will almost certainly stop them from going to extremes

our military is tiny our stupid PM helen clark aolod our airforce.:mad:
Yeah i hate when others aolod our stuff too!
I hate when people aolod things. It's just not right.
Well the guy did have a point, Bill English would never have aoloded the Airforce.
I'm a pol sci major :p

I know about things like this. For instance: Electorate MP who won by the largest margin at the last election: The now independent Taito Phillip Field in Mangere. The winner by the lowest margin: Darren Hughes in Otaki.

Random.
:(
Who holds the East Hamilton Seat, Labour or National?
Well you may or may not know but....
*Mocks Kanabia*
*Anticipates mocking you*
Ahem
As far as the NZ military goes, basically even if we maxed out the budget we could reasonably spend on it, we'd still be fucked if we got invaded. As long as we are fulfilling our peacekeeping obligations (which I believe we have to a certain extent if we want to make any sort of difference) then I'm happy enough with the military spending. As it is, I believe we do this.
I think we should still use the Scorpions and M113's other nations still use them, and i don't mean fake nations like Burkina Faso or Greece, real ones like Britain(Has used Scorpions within the last 10 years) and America(Hilly Billy National Guard units kick around in them)...
And we need some Artillary, because nothing keeps the peace like a 155mm shell...
Tell me about it. We need a much bigger military. Any day now those damn Chatham islanders are gonna declare independence and then war on us - and we'll have no-one to protect us!
Helen, you rotten cow. When those inbreds are marching down Lambton Quay, may yours be the first body they dangle from the lampposts.
To be fair, we wont to keep Aucklanders up North.:p
------------------------------
Seeing as the NS Tracker thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=527285&page=5) is closed i have to use this to 'gloat' about my Democratic Socialist Nation with a Dollar of $1=$1.95.
http://www.sunsetrpg.com/economystatistics.php?nation=Harlesburg

:(
Who holds the East Hamilton Seat, Labour or National?
Well you may or may not know but....
*Mocks Kanabia*
*Anticipates mocking you*



I'm pretty sure it's labour. Maybe. But seriously, fuck hamilton

*goes to look it up*

Hah, nope, Hamilton WEST is labour. East is National.

The difference between now and 1990 is that the New Zealand economy and the New Zealand Government's books are not as messed up - what Richardson did was in a way necessary - the government was running into some serious financial issues, and hence the Fiscal Responsibility Act was passed to stop things like that happening again. You also have the MMP environment, National is going to need a coalition partner who will almost certainly stop them from going to extremes
Let's hope it's not ACT.

Let's hope it's not ACT.

ACT is like the Progressive Party; we don't even care about them anymore. I was thinking more along the lines of the Maori Party/New Zealand First/United/Greens (they indicated that they would be willing to, under very strict conditions)

the greens or the maori party being tempted by coalition with national is a fairly abhorrent prospect, both have such radically different policies to National's traditional social-conservative, non-interventionist thrust that any government containing them would be even more notably screwed up than the NZ First/National govt I remember fondly for this little ditty:
"Roses are red, violets are blue, solid gold undies for good old Tuku."

Add to this that any coalition a'twixt the maori/greens and national would alienate their support base(s), as neither cleaved to national even before the G/M parties existed, it'd essentially be exchanging one term in government for never being elected to anything ever again.
...actually I'd rather like that. goddamned greens.

ignoring the government's hypocrisy in its' budgetary targeting of the boomer vote and turning to the military, presently, we're going the right direction, if on a smaller scale than I would personally like.
Frankly, we don't /need/ an air combat wing in our current pattern of military deployments, nor are we likely to in the future. We never go anywhere without allies, and never have. I don't see this changing, thus having an independent military is not something we should aim for as a goal.
We should be spending more, yes, but our air-going priorities should be oriented to close air-support, logistics and long-term patrolling like the P3s undertake presently.
one of my tutorial groups did a case-study on this recently at the behest of one of my lecturer's, who was rather fascinated by how much the group knew in aggregate about defence and how important an issue it was for us.

What we eventually decided upon was that our defence forces needed the following:
+ An airframe to airframe replacement of the Iroquois with the 90, rather than reducing numbers, if possible increasing the number of airframes in total.
+ Added capability packages to the Orions, contingent on no newer airframes with the same capabilities coming online.
+ New build hercules to replace the rather elderly ones we currently have, again, if no suitable newer type could fit the bill.
+ A close air support type, fighter capability was not something we thought the airframe needed, therefore consideration mainly revolved around the trainer/strike types; (SuperHawk, Aermachii, L-59)
+ Depending on the level of expansion allowed, a squadron of attack helicopters, we suggested the south african Roivalk, as it's unlikely we need a more expensive/(capable) type and it's equally unlikely the americans would sell us others. the werewolf and tigre were considered and rejected.
+ For the navy, we didn't really have much to add other than urging the acquisition of two, preferably four, additional ANZAC frigates. We don't need a larger type presently.
+ For the army, again, we had little to add. We did urge reactivating the M113s in an expanded force structure, as well as acquiring some form of CFV ala the M2 to form a three tier armoured force, the Bradleys being the 'heavy' component, backed up by LAVIIIs as their scouts, with M113s remaining the transport for non-'armoured' units.
+ We did consider a new assault rifle in light of the demonstrable inferiority of the 5.56mm NATO cartridge compared to 7.62mm NATO and of the AUGs sometimes dubious characteristics, however, as we tried to avoid retiring anything we already had, and there was contention over the AUG/56's merits or lack thereof, this was rejected.

All up we based this around a military recruited up to about 40,000 strong, recruits primarily funneling into the army.
The whole study ran to about 10,000 words and covered a bunch more nitty gritty stuff, but these're the big ticket things that'd stick out in a budget, so i covered them again, here.
If New Zealand wanted to maximise its' capabilities as well as keeping within its' current policy framework, these suggestions are, in my humble opinion, as good as it gets.

<*/serious thread digression>

oh and incidentally, monkeypimp, where are you a pol sci major?

The Maori Party has been seriously considered as a potential National Party coalition partner; John Key is much different to what Don Brash was. Even the Greens themselves have considered the possibility that the only way they will get their policies through is with a coalition with National; and they have even threatened to deny supply to Labour with next year's budget if none of their policies get through. Also, it does not need to be a coalition as such; it can just as easily be a confidence and supply arrangement - Key is much more talented than Brash was.

Also, I personally think we should have some sort of military capability - we should not look to the world scene like we are heavily reliant on the Australians for defence capability. Even fighter jets are necessary - what do we do if there is a 9/11 style hijacking - let the people inside the building die because we could not shoot the jet down because we had no air force?

oh and incidentally, monkeypimp, where are you a pol sci major?


Vic. There's no point in doing it anywhere else in this country.

I'm pretty sure it's labour. Maybe. But seriously, fuck hamilton

*goes to look it up*

Hah, nope, Hamilton WEST is labour. East is National.
Thats what i thought.
I'm pretty sure that East Hamilton has the highest rates of Clyhmidia(SP) in NZ per capita etc.
Needless to say, Labour is an STD...

I am indifferent towards the New Zealand budget.
yet you still felt the need to open and post in a thread about it. very strange. Almost like you secretly do feel difference towards it.

I want to know about PNG's budget.