NationStates Jolt Archive

Yep, 10 years ago to this day, one of Africa's longest-serving and most infamous Big Men, Mobutu Sese Seko, famous for his leopard-skin hat and kleptocratic proclivitities, was overthrown after (mis)ruling Zaire (now the DR Congo) for almost 32 years.

Thoughts?

I imagine you already know this, but I'm guessing that the majority of any replies to this thread are going to consist of a lot of "huh?" Sorry about that.

No problem.

Anyway, Clinton's abandonment of Mobutu was one of the highlights of his presidency.

Yes, that was a good day for DR Congo...Mobutu's regime was easily one of the worst, especially since it was so long. I mean, we're talking one of the most resource rich, if not the richest, and largest nations in Africa being plundered for a generation by the guy while the world's developed nations outright supported his reign of kleptocratic terror. Of course, the Beligans were even worse, but that's hardly any comfort.

Even now, the country's still very poor and underdeveloped; the damage from his regime's mismanagement will take a long time to heal. For that matter, it was the 28th anniversary of Amin's overthrow back in April...spring doesn't appear to have been a good time of year for dictators the world over.

Well, I'm not an expert on the DR Congo, but I hope things improve now they've held elections and have a proper government. Hopefully, they will be able to put their great mineral and resource wealth to good use.

This just proves that maintaining dictatorship in real life is just as difficult as it is in NationStates. :p

A question then...if Mobuto got loans from overseas in the name of "the Congolese government", then is it right that following governments have to pay back the loans? Especially if it's so obvious that the people of the DR Congo didn't get anything for it?

It's sorta difficult to answer. I mean, on one hand it's a fairly obvious "no". On the other hand, would this also mean that Bush wouldn't have to pay back debt incurred under Clinton? And why would anyone still bother lending to Congo?

Jeez, it's been a decade already? Damn, it felt like the other day Laurent Kabila was cutting swathe through the country.

I remember a cartoon at the time (I'll see if I can find it), that had a poor Congolese guy on the ground after being mauled by a lion (Mobuto). The lion pounced off scene to the left while behind the guy a tiger was about to pounce on him and 'have fun' with him too.

Kind apt at the time I thought.

The people of Congo/Zaire were some of the pawns that were sacrificed by the good guys in the Cold War. I blame the liberal Left. These pussies were too afraid to serve in the military and fight evil directly. Therefore we had to enlist the aid of dictators to help us in our fight against the bad guys. Like it or not Congo plaid a crucial role in the fight against the commies in Angola and I am not sure but I think Tanzania too.

The Zaire had this huge modern airbase that was left over by the Belgians. The US used this airbase to fight the Angolans. It is all such a mess. I curse all peacniks for their complicity in the suffering of the Third World.

Yep, 10 years ago to this day, one of Africa's longest-serving and most infamous Big Men, Mobutu Sese Seko, famous for his leopard-skin hat and kleptocratic proclivitities, was overthrown after (mis)ruling Zaire (now the DR Congo) for almost 32 years.

Thoughts?

It's a damn shame Mugabe hasn't been overthrown yet. He's going to make Zaire look like a success story.

A question then...if Mobuto got loans from overseas in the name of "the Congolese government", then is it right that following governments have to pay back the loans? Especially if it's so obvious that the people of the DR Congo didn't get anything for it?

It's sorta difficult to answer. I mean, on one hand it's a fairly obvious "no". On the other hand, would this also mean that Bush wouldn't have to pay back debt incurred under Clinton? And why would anyone still bother lending to Congo?

Large sums of money were lended to "Congo", which all went directly into Mobutu's private bank accounts. One of the main reasons why the people of Congo should not have to pay for these loans is that the banks and states lending money to "Congo"/Mobutu were fully aware of this practice. Yet, they nonetheless decided to lend the money because Mobutu opposed comunism. If the states want their money back they should get it from Mobutu's family, which remains loaded, not from the congolese people.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/mugabeyj4.png

This quote brought to you by the Ministry Of Truth.

A question then...if Mobuto got loans from overseas in the name of "the Congolese government", then is it right that following governments have to pay back the loans? Especially if it's so obvious that the people of the DR Congo didn't get anything for it?

It's sorta difficult to answer. I mean, on one hand it's a fairly obvious "no". On the other hand, would this also mean that Bush wouldn't have to pay back debt incurred under Clinton? And why would anyone still bother lending to Congo?
The difference is Bush didn't over through Clinton.

Hmmm, the Great Ousting of the Dictator to Acquire Freedom and Prosperity for All...

Well, let's see, has the situation in Zaïre/Congo improved after Mobi was thrown out?

Ethnic wars, corruption probably at a higher standard than before, poverty still going strong, inflation rampant as ever, yeah, definitely an improvement... :(

This just proves that maintaining dictatorship in real life is just as difficult as it is in NationStates. :p

My people are happy to have a dictator. I treat them nice and don't charge rediculous tax rates.

I'm probably one of the few people here who actually spent time in Zaire under Mobutu. Some 18 years ago, I drove from Goma on the Rwanda border to the Central African Republic via Kisangani and Mobutu's birthplace of Gbadolite.

I just missed a visit from the Big Man himself in Gbadolite (by 2 hours), but I still have my Mobutu shirt, picked up on the Kisangani black market, much to the displeasure of the man who claimed to be the local culture minister (I notice that Mugabe's started wearing a Mugabe shirt - never a good sign when a dictator starts wearing his own brightly-coloured face).

As to the tenth anniversary of Mobutu's passing... The DRC is broken now, Zaire was broken then, and the Belgian Congo was broken before it. The reasons why it was broken in each case differ slightly in character, but the mere holding of elections isn't going to mend a vast country with so little infrastructure whose people have been systematically brutalised and oppressed since Leopold II decided he wanted a nice personal treasure chest in the centre of Africa (earlier if we include pre-Leopold slave traders).

I wish, particularly in light of the recent brutal war - a war which involved up to 8 nations and killed millions (up to 3.8 million), but was virtually ignored in the west - that those of us in wealthy democracies paid more attention to the DRC, and I profoundly regret that we don't.

But next time you use your mobile phone / cellphone, DVD player or computer try and spare a thought for all of those millions of DRC citizens who might have died to supply your comfortable middle class luxuries with coltan for the capacitators*


* yes, I recognise that most legal production of tantalum comes from Australia; nonetheless, c.80% of the world's coltan (used to produce tantalum) reserves are in the DRC, and control of these were a major factor in the Congo war.

My people are happy to have a dictator. I treat them nice and don't charge rediculous tax rates.

Mine haven't yet had time to decide... but they are happy with me as their ruler. (Or else...)

But isn't Africa just full of fail and aids regaurdless? Years of corruption and terror makes a problem whose only reasonable solution is fire.

Although very nice good job on the conglonese for doing good things.

Mobutu? He sounds like a necromancer or crazy scientist.