NationStates Jolt Archive

It's rare that I see something good written (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=2&cid=1178708611816&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)about Hamas. This is one of those rare times, so pop the cork on that Dom Perignon, pour a glass and enjoy the moment. Hamas managed to kill five of their own, while trying to ambush a jeep.


Five Hamas members were killed when a jeep they were traveling in came under fire in Gaza City. The five had been arrested by forces loyal to Abbas on charges of participating in the latest fighting. Two security officers who were accompanying the five Hamas men were also killed in the attack.


Amid all the usual stories of innocent Arabs and Jews getting killed, it's nice to hear some good news for a change.

gloating over the deaths of human beings is disgusting. this smells of troll to me.

Myrm, you could charm the paint off walls.

This thread is vile, hateful, and awful.

Your penis will shrink and eventually fall off if you keep beating off to this type of stuff.

I miss the "good news" part.

You're sick and vile. "Yay, someone's father/brother/son/uncle/nephew/cousin/husband died today! Bring out the bubbly!" What do you think you're playing at?

I think he more celebrating the fact that Hamas has been defeated, even if it is a very small manner.

The US have had so many friendly fire casualties I've lost count. Have they been defeated yet? Apparently not.

I think he more celebrating the fact that Hamas has been defeated, even if it is a very small manner.

No, I think he's gloating over dead bodies.

I think he more celebrating the fact that Hamas has been defeated, even if it is a very small manner.

You're sick and vile. "Yay, someone's father/brother/son/uncle/nephew/cousin/husband died today! Bring out the bubbly!" What do you think you're playing at?

Did you know right-wingers are more likely to have dreams involving destruction and death? I read that somewhere.

What I want to know is, how much more likely are right-wingers to get off on these dreams of death and destruction?

Did you know right-wingers are more likely to have dreams involving destruction and death? I read that somewhere.

I find that very easy to believe, actually.

What I want to know is, how much more likely are right-wingers to get off on these dreams of death and destruction?

About 40x more likely. Although it disturbs me immensely.

I think he more celebrating the fact that Hamas has been defeated, even if it is a very small manner.

death =/= winning

death =/= winning

Hamas lost soldiers and failed to ambush the jeep.
That constitutes a loss.

I miss the "good news" part.

The good news would be that the world has lost five evil men that were part of an organization that deliberately and calculatingly murders innocents. That the world now has five less murderers is indeed something to be happy about.

No gloating here. I'd like to see peace in Israel, but it won't happen until Hamas and groups like Hamas are eliminated. This was at least 5 steps in the right direction. Much better than reading about the latest pizza parlor bombing.

You can't 'eliminate' an ideology, only change it. That change will never come about through body bags.

No, I think he's gloating over dead bodies.
No gloating here. I'd like to see peace in Israel, but it won't happen until Hamas and groups like Hamas are eliminated. This was at least 5 steps in the right direction. Much better than reading about the latest pizza parlor bombing.

The good news would be that the world has lost five evil men that were part of an organization that deliberately and calculatingly murders innocents. That the world now has five less murderers is indeed something to be happy about.

5 more rather pointless and futile deaths in the world is something to be sad about. Come on, these guys probably had family, friends, a life, and you want to start up a party because they've all been killed?

I miss the "good news" part.

You can't 'eliminate' an ideology, only change it. That change will never come about through body bags.

Your first point is true enough, but while one may not be able to eliminate an ideoligy, one can significantly decrease its destructive potential by lessening the number of believers.

You can't 'eliminate' an ideology, only change it. That change will never come about through body bags.

I don't know, you can fit a lot of pennies in a body bag.

The good news would be that the world has lost five evil men that were part of an organization that deliberately and calculatingly murders innocents. That the world now has five less murderers is indeed something to be happy about.

You know, some people say the same about US soldiers dying in Iraq. I don't agree with them, and I don't agree with you. I know nothing about these men, I see no reason to celebrate their deaths. Hell, I could even go to the extreme and speculate that these five men could have been the ones that were members of Hamas that wanted to change the organisation from the inside. We don't know that they weren't.

All I know is that your "celebration" is tasteless.

They're HAMAS terrorists. I can't see why anyone is getting bent out of shape over someone being glad that they're dead.

Hamas lost soldiers and failed to ambush the jeep.
That constitutes a loss.

people died
That constitutes a loss.

You can't 'eliminate' an ideology, only change it. That change will never come about through body bags.

You can severely weaken it and marginalize it. How many countries have large numbers of Nazis in the government anymore? Maybe someday the radical Islamist groups like HAMAS will be just as marginal and insignificant.

Hell, I could even go to the extreme and speculate that these five men could have been the ones that were members of Hamas that wanted to change the organisation from the inside. We don't know that they weren't.

All I know is that your "celebration" is tasteless.

Two points.

1) Basing your opinion on a ridiculously unlikely (although I do concede, technically not impossible) scenario holds little weight in a reasonable debate.

2) Being disappointed that innocent Israelis are now safer is what I would consider tasteless.

They're American infidels. I can't see why anyone is getting bent out of shape over someone being glad that they're dead.

look you can apply it to Iraq!

*waits for bitching and moaning*

people died
That constitutes a loss.

Does anyone remember that conversation I had with USMC Leathernecks a while back about the US breaking a ceasefire? It went something like this:

Me: How many people died unnecessarily because of this?
USMC Leathernecks: We fought off the Taliban (Or some such)
Me: Yes, but how many people died unnecessarily?
USMC Leathernecks: Oh, a few soldiers and about 17 Taliban (Or something)
Me: So you admit that people died unnecessarily?
USMC Leathernecks: *Some impotent rant about the enemy*

That's exactly what this thread seems like to me.

How many countries have large numbers of Nazis in the government anymore?

yeah that has nothing to do with knowledge of what happened in Nazi Germany and education :rolleyes:

also the idea that Nazi's around the world where stopped by WWII (I presume) is whimsical at best

No gloating here. I'd like to see peace in Israel, but it won't happen until Hamas and groups like Hamas are eliminated. This was at least 5 steps in the right direction. Much better than reading about the latest pizza parlor bombing.

All this will do is aggravate violence between the two groups and prevent a ceasefire, perpetuating a conflict that has and will continue to claim innocent civilians. Nothing to celebrate here.

You know, some people say the same about US soldiers dying in Iraq. I don't agree with them, and I don't agree with you. I know nothing about these men, I see no reason to celebrate their deaths. Hell, I could even go to the extreme and speculate that these five men could have been the ones that were members of Hamas that wanted to change the organisation from the inside. We don't know that they weren't.

All I know is that your "celebration" is tasteless.

Honestly if they where the ones trying to change Hamas from the inside, they would be too busy getting beheaded for sympathizing with Infidels to be out on the Strip ambushing folks...

EDIT: Also seems to me (this is an assumption because I didn't read the actual article) that they were killed in self defense. So whatever inflammation this causes won't be due to the deaths, but the same indoctrination from politically minded, corrupt Imams who are using a twisted ideology to complete an agenda through terrorist/guerrilla warfare that caused these men to be out there in the first place. So maybe we should be killing those guys. Either way there is no peaceful solution to to this conflict. People, and a lot of them are going to have to die before the ME finds peace. Either the Israelis or the Arabs who are in dispute over the region. And if the Jews lose then the Muslims have already said they are coming after the US, so then we'll have to kill them all, or at least enough so that there is no more will to fight.

The only defense against subjugation is subjugation.

2) Being disappointed that innocent Israelis are now safer is what I would consider tasteless.

yeah suffering thats what will kill Hamas and make Israel safe

That's exactly what this thread seems like to me.

its as if Vietnam never happened in peoples minds :(

look you can apply it to Iraq!

*waits for bitching and moaning*

America isn't calling for a genocide of Iraqis. Hamas calls for the genocide of Jews. http://www.jnewswire.com/article/1897

American political parties settle their differences through voting and debate. Hamas wages civil war on Fatah.

Yeah, we're just the same.

Two points.

1) Basing your opinion on a ridiculously unlikely (although I do concede, technically not impossible) scenario holds little weight in a reasonable debate.

2) Being disappointed that innocent Israelis are now safer is what I would consider tasteless.

why do you think that is a rediculous scenario? do you know the minds of all the members of hamas?

feeling sickened by the people gloating over the deaths of human beings is not the equvalent of being disappointed that innocent iraelis are now safer. to say so is laughable, not least because these deaths in no way make israelis safer.

yeah that has nothing to do with knowledge of what happened in Nazi Germany and education :rolleyes:

also the idea that Nazi's around the world where stopped by WWII (I presume) is whimsical at best

I'd say both were important. Knowledge of the hateful nature of the Islamic supremacist of Hamas and the destruction of Hamas' military capability would work hand in hand to defeat them.

America isn't calling for a genocide of Iraqis. Hamas calls for the genocide of Jews. http://www.jnewswire.com/article/1897

American political parties settle their differences through voting and debate. Hamas wages civil war on Fatah.

Yeah, we're just the same.

Just like Republicans/Democrats regularly torch opposing parties houses and beat children:

In another incident, Hamas gunmen set fire to an 11-story apartment building housing Fatah lawmaker Nema Sheik Ali, the wife of the head of Preventive Security. Witnesses said the gunmen broke into her apartment and struck her and two of her children with their weapons. One of the children is 14 years old; the age of the other wasn't immediately known.

"They came, they broke the door," she said. "They assaulted my children and they pushed me aside, then they torched the apartment."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070516/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians

"Today we live in fear," said Um Mohammed, a mother of six. "Even during the Israeli occupation the situation wasn't this terrible."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070516/wl_afp/mideast_070516220329;_ylt=ApXDPhrVPML3Gx3GKZy9luUUewgF

yeah that has nothing to do with knowledge of what happened in Nazi Germany and education :rolleyes:

also the idea that Nazi's around the world where stopped by WWII (I presume) is whimsical at best

Didn't that knowledge become available as a result of Germany's defeat?

Two points.

1) Basing your opinion on a ridiculously unlikely (although I do concede, technically not impossible) scenario holds little weight in a reasonable debate.
Indeed. Good thing this isn't a debate, isn't it.
2) Being disappointed that innocent Israelis are now safer is what I would consider tasteless.
Please don't put words in my mouth or opinions in my mind. Because that will only lead to one thing:
You fail!

Honestly if they where the ones trying to change Hamas from the inside, they would be too busy getting beheaded for sympathizing with Infidels to be out on the Strip ambushing folks...
Wrong people. People on the jeep, not the ambushers.
And if the Jews lose then the Muslims have already said they are coming after the US, so then we'll have to kill them all, or at least enough so that there is no more will to fight.
You should really read up on the islamists. It's good for you.

The only defense against subjugation is subjugation.
Nope.

America isn't calling for a genocide of Iraqis. Hamas calls for the genocide of Jews. http://www.jnewswire.com/article/1897

the US is a hyperpower bent on global economic imperialism with a tradition of invading randomly and ignoring anything that is inconvenient

course there is also the fact that the US and its allies love to bomb the shit out of where people live

American political parties settle their differences through voting and debate.

so what happend with Nader? vote rigging? talk of with us or against us

I'd say both were important. Knowledge of the hateful nature of the Islamic supremacist of Hamas and the destruction of Hamas' military capability would work hand in hand to defeat them.

pfft yeah attack a gurilla force with massive firepower cause that worked so well in nam didn't it :rolleyes:

its as if Vietnam never happened in peoples minds :(

Oh, Vietnam is a fairy tale we use to scare communists...silly

Didn't that knowledge become available as a result of Germany's defeat?

Stalins purges didn't come as a result of defeat, Europe knew what was going on in Germany all too well

so who changed the Geography of the country!?! :eek:

Are you still using those "maps"...oh dear were have you been?

Grab a beer and jerk off to Dharma and Greg already...silly :)

Oh, Vietnam is a fairy tale we use to scare communists...silly

so who changed the Geography of the country!?! :eek:

http://www.idmonsters.com/archives/images/GiantRobot.jpg

Stalins purges didn't come as a result of defeat, Europe knew what was going on in Germany all too well

Oh, nevermind then, I thought you were talking about post-WW2.

This thread is vile, hateful, and awful.

I kind of like it, actually.

so who changed the Geography of the country!?! :eek:

http://www.idmonsters.com/archives/images/GiantRobot.jpg

Oh my God! I used to watch that show when I was 5 or so and lived in St. Louis! So many wonderful memories flushing back!

"Giant Robot, start to move!"

Hahahahahaha!

I kind of like it, actually.

Vile, hateful, and sort of okay then!

Grab a beer and jerk off to Dharma and Greg already...silly :)

you can't separate families with Dharma and Greg silly, you need Frasier for that :)

the US is a hyperpower bent on global economic imperialism with a tradition of invading randomly and ignoring anything that is inconvenient

course there is also the fact that the US and its allies love to bomb the shit out of where people live I'm not saying the US government is all sweetness and light. Some shitty things were done. Still, we don't subscribe to a genocidal ideology and we don't launch unguided rockets into populated civilian areas.



so what happend with Nader? vote rigging? talk of with us or against us Vote rigging? Yeah, there is some evidence of that in the last two presidential elections. Not nearly enough to make a difference for Nader. Also not the same as waging civil war between Democrats and Republicans. That's what's going on between Hamas and Fatah.



pfft yeah attack a gurilla force with massive firepower cause that worked so well in nam didn't it :rolleyes: Maybe we just need to fund indigenous groups that have a problem with our enemies. Let them do the fighting.

you can't separate families with Dharma and Greg silly, you need Frasier for that :)

How could I forget Frasier?...silly :)

I'm not saying the US government is all sweetness and light. Some shitty things were done. Still, we don't subscribe to a genocidal ideology and we don't launch unguided rockets into populated civilian areas.
No, we just fund the groups that do.
Maybe we just need to fund indigenous groups that have a problem with our enemies. Let them do the fighting.
Then we have to come back to those countries two decades later and depose those groups for threatening us or our interests. Have you ever tried to learn the history behind the people we've been fighting?

There are innocent Arabs ("Palestinians")? :confused:

No, we just fund the groups that do.

Then we have to come back to those countries two decades later and depose those groups for threatening us or our interests. Have you ever tried to learn the history behind the people we've been fighting?

Yeah, I have. What's your point?

There are innocent Arabs ("Palestinians")? :confused:

Yes there are, there isn't many of them because they keep dying...I wonder why?... :( ...could there be a war going on?

Women and Children are funny that way...

Still, we don't subscribe to a genocidal ideology and we don't launch unguided rockets into populated civilian areas.

but you sure do aid those that do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ievFUnIEh5E

Vote rigging? Yeah, there is some evidence of that in the last two presidential elections. Not nearly enough to make a difference for Nader.

your point?

Also not the same as waging civil war between Democrats and Republicans

mostly because there the same party

There are innocent Jews ("Israelis")? :confused:

Yes, yes there are.

but you sure do aid those that do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ievFUnIEh5E
I'm not in the mood to listen to music.


your point? Just responding to this. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12657361&postcount=39



mostly because there the same partyThey're similar on some issues, but not nearly the same. I seriously don't think the US would be in Iraq if Gore had won over Bush. There wouldn't be a "faith based initiative" taking tax dollars and discriminating on the basis of religion. Saying that they're the same party is just stupid.

This thread is vile, hateful, and awful.

QFT

No gloating here. I'd like to see peace in Israel, but it won't happen until Hamas and groups like Hamas are eliminated. This was at least 5 steps in the right direction. Much better than reading about the latest pizza parlor bombing.

Hmmm. Yes, yet the only deaths that occur on a regular basis are Arab, the people being colonised are Arab, and the people under occupation are - thats right - Arab.

You can severely weaken it and marginalize it. How many countries have large numbers of Nazis in the government anymore? Maybe someday the radical Islamist groups like HAMAS will be just as marginal and insignificant.
.

You win the Godwin.

American political parties settle their differences through voting and debate. Hamas wages civil war on Fatah.

And no Fatah people started firing at Hamas people, and the Fatah people didnt have weapons thrown at them by the US...no.

Still, we don't subscribe to a genocidal ideology and we don't launch unguided rockets into populated civilian areas.

That sentence could be made more accurate by the addition of "much", "anymore" and "even if we do get others to do it for us now and again or maybe give them a few rockets and ask no questions....".

Yeah, I have. What's your point?

We funded groups like Hamas in the past and approved of their actions in the name of fighting a common enemy. Then, when the enemy is gone they've stayed in power and ended up opposing our influence and supporting our other enemies. Soon after, we invade and depose them, then set up another government or occupy the country, only to have them retake the country or have the country fall apart because we didn't bother thinking our plan through beyond "depose our enemy".

My point is that we may have clean hands when it comes to conflicts like this, but only because we made sure someone else got their hands dirty for us. It has never ended when one side is killed or outed and cheering on small deaths like these is nothing but a celebration of a conflict that has taken civilian and combatant lives.

I'm not in the mood to listen to music.

holiday in Cambodia, I'm making an example in a way that provides fun

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12657361&postcount=39

you misread, I was pointing out that votes are rigged and that Nader wasn't allowed in the presidential debate (they actually changed the election rules for this to happen)

I seriously don't think the US would be in Iraq if Gore had won over Bush. There wouldn't be a "faith based initiative" taking tax dollars and discriminating on the basis of religion. Saying that they're the same party is just stupid.

lets see:

both where pro death penalty
both where homophobic
both owe everything to big companies
both are on the beck and call of religious groups
both are pro-cencorship

Indeed. Good thing this isn't a debate, isn't it.

Please don't put words in my mouth or opinions in my mind. Because that will only lead to one thing:
You fail!

I don't believe I put words in your mouth, I merely used what you said to reach a logical conclusion.

You showed disappointment at the deaths of Hamas members.

Hamas members threaten the safety of innocent Israelis.

Therefore, you are disappointed at the removal of a threat to the safety of innocent Israelis...

You shouldn't claim that I fail merely because you made a statement that, through very simple reasoning, made a point that you yourself find distasteful...

I don't believe I put words in your mouth, I merely used what you said to reach a logical conclusion.

You showed disappointment at the deaths of Hamas members.

Hamas members threaten the safety of innocent Israelis.

Therefore, you are disappointed at the removal of a threat to the safety of innocent Israelis...

You shouldn't claim that I fail merely because you made a statement that, through very simple reasoning, made a point that you yourself find distasteful...
Very simple reasoning indeed. You fail at logic as well, then.

I do not see any cause for celebration that five random people are dead. They may be Hamas members, but that alone does not justify their deaths - as simply being an israeli is not a justification for being targeted by attacks by Hamas.

So yes, you put words in my mouth. Try reading other threads on the Israel/Palestine conflict and you may discover my stance on things. As it is, you assume too much.

But do go on, prove conclusively that these people were a direct and imminent threat to israelis. That needs to be your first step. Hamas member do not, by default, threaten the safety of the israeli people. And as such, you do indeed fail completely.

Very simple reasoning indeed. You fail at logic as well, then.

I do not see any cause for celebration that five random people are dead. They may be Hamas members, but that alone does not justify their deaths - as simply being an israeli is not a justification for being targeted by attacks by Hamas.

So yes, you put words in my mouth. Try reading other threads on the Israel/Palestine conflict and you may discover my stance on things. As it is, you assume too much.

But do go on, prove conclusively that these people were a direct and imminent threat to israelis. That needs to be your first step. Hamas member do not, by default, threaten the safety of the israeli people. And as such, you do indeed fail completely.

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and

kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the

rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind

me, come and kill him.' Article 7 of the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)


Those killed were members of a group who's stated goal is to kill Jews.

Armed men professing a desire to kill Jews....certainly not a threat to the safety of Israeli people...

Those killed were members of a group who's stated goal is to kill Jews.

Armed men professing a desire to kill Jews....certainly not a threat to the safety of Israeli people...

But do go on, prove conclusively that these people were a direct and imminent threat to israelis.

erm...the argument your where quoting just beat your counter argument, I think its time to accept your losses no?

5 more rather pointless and futile deaths in the world is something to be sad about. Come on, these guys probably had family, friends, a life, and you want to start up a party because they've all been killed?

These are 'people' that strap explosives to their sons, daughters, wives, and selves so that they can kill as many other non-combatant sons, daughters, wives, husbands, etc. They don't deserve pity or mercy.

look you can apply it to Iraq!

*waits for bitching and moaning*

Here it is. You can cut and paste words, but there is no moral equivalence.

These are 'people' that strap explosives to their sons, daughters, wives, and selves so that they can kill as many other non-combatant sons, daughters, wives, husbands, etc. They don't deserve pity or mercy.

Well, neither do you. But that's not the point. The point is that celebrating death is exactly the kind of disgusting behavior "these 'people'" do. As is the apparent goal of "win the war by extermination" fallacy. Victory is not measured in a body count, but here you are blithely going "LOL 5 STEPS CLOSER TO VICTORY!" It's idiotic and more than a little disgusting.

I'd prefer it if people weren't killed, but these guys were murderers willing to perpetuate the suffering of their people for their own ends.

Very simple reasoning indeed. You fail at logic as well, then.

I do not see any cause for celebration that five random people are dead. They may be Hamas members, but that alone does not justify their deaths - as simply being an israeli is not a justification for being targeted by attacks by Hamas.

So yes, you put words in my mouth. Try reading other threads on the Israel/Palestine conflict and you may discover my stance on things. As it is, you assume too much.

But do go on, prove conclusively that these people were a direct and imminent threat to israelis. That needs to be your first step. Hamas member do not, by default, threaten the safety of the israeli people. And as such, you do indeed fail completely.

Sorry, your logic makes absolutley no sense to me.

American political parties settle their differences through voting and debate. Hamas wages civil war on Fatah.

Now don't lie. American political parties settle their differences with mudslinging, slander, bribery and name calling.

holiday in Cambodia, I'm making an example in a way that provides fun

What you need, my soooonnn, what you need, my soooonnn is
A holiday in Cambodia
Where people dress in black!

Still, we don't subscribe to a genocidal ideology and we don't launch unguided rockets into populated civilian areas.

Of course not. America simply doesn't prosecute it's soldiers who DO proscribe to such an ideology and rather than unguided rockets, of which I am sure they no longer use, they drop guided bombs and cluster munitions.

When it comes to destroying infrastructure and cities, I expect a 1st world nation like America to do it better than a 3rd world ragtag terror group.

You can't 'eliminate' an ideology, only change it. That change will never come about through body bags.

Worked in the Philippines.

It's rare that I see something good written (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=2&cid=1178708611816&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)about Hamas. This is one of those rare times, so pop the cork on that Dom Perignon, pour a glass and enjoy the moment. Hamas managed to kill five of their own, while trying to ambush a jeep.



Amid all the usual stories of innocent Arabs and Jews getting killed, it's nice to hear some good news for a change.

And people wonder why peace in the middle east is unattainable. This proves the point.

They're HAMAS terrorists. I can't see why anyone is getting bent out of shape over someone being glad that they're dead.

Here here. Death to terrorists.

There are innocent Arabs ("Palestinians")? :confused:

Believe it or not, there are and we do have to remember that.

Worked in the Philippines.

That is one of the most ignorant and ridiculous claims I have heard in my life. Murdering people might force a government change, and a government we install may do what we want, but you damn well can't change the mind of who really matters-the people-through murder.

Otherwise, Iraq would be our fifty-first fuckin' state.

That is one of the most ignorant and ridiculous claims I have heard in my life. Murdering people might force a government change, and a government we install may do what we want, but you damn well can't change the mind of who really matters-the people-through murder.

Otherwise, Iraq would be our fifty-first fuckin' state.

Guess what kind of movement it was in the Philippines? Maybe Islamic fundamentalist? When we were there we weren't the aides, the helpers that we are in Iraq today. We were the worst enemy that they had ever seen. We used prisons like Guantanamo on a much larger scale and burned villages to the ground that supported the insurgents. We made life for them horrible instead of trying to improve it. We knew that we couldn't win hearts and minds so we didn't try. We did what worked.

We were the worst enemy that they had ever seen. We used prisons like Guantanamo on a much larger scale and burned villages to the ground that supported the insurgents. We made life for them horrible instead of trying to improve it. We knew that we couldn't win hearts and minds so we didn't try. We did what worked.

Do you know what we call that? We call that "barbaric".

Do you know what we call that? We call that "barbaric".

Yup, but barbarians win at warfare. So it's really the politicians call. Do they want to win now causing serious human rights problems but creating an environment that will be prosperous in the future, or do they want to avoid having any blood on their hands and risk many many more years of turmoil. To me it's like this, if we are going to go to war, let's go to win. If not, then why the fuck are we there?

Do you know what we call that? We call that "barbaric".

Not bad for the 1901 war in the Phillippines. Today it is barbaric, back then? not so much.

Yup, but barbarians win at warfare. So it's really the politicians call. Do they want to win now causing serious human rights problems but creating an environment that will be prosperous in the future, or do they want to avoid having any blood on their hands and risk many many more years of turmoil. To me it's like this, if we are going to go to war, let's go to win. If not, then why the fuck are we there?

Probably the best argument of this thread. My compliments to you.

Did you know right-wingers are more likely to have dreams involving destruction and death? I read that somewhere.

What I want to know is, how much more likely are right-wingers to get off on these dreams of death and destruction?

You know, on a another thread it was mentioned someone made a VIDEO GAME of the VT Massacre. I'm sure you'll defend THEM, but will whine about this guy... :rolleyes:

Guess what kind of movement it was in the Philippines? Maybe Islamic fundamentalist? When we were there we weren't the aides, the helpers that we are in Iraq today. We were the worst enemy that they had ever seen. We used prisons like Guantanamo on a much larger scale and burned villages to the ground that supported the insurgents. We made life for them horrible instead of trying to improve it. We knew that we couldn't win hearts and minds so we didn't try. We did what worked.

Yes, yes, and America also conducted mass murder without nary a complaint. And then they turn around and whine about human rights when other people copy them.

Maybe if America portrayed itself as the new Genghis Khan instead of a mockery of 'liberty and justice for all'.

Why not start up Stalin's gulags hmm? I bet you'd just love the idea. Ooh, or how about death camps? Kill all the pesky Iraqis for the new lebensraum.

Hypocrite.

These are 'people' that strap explosives to their sons, daughters, wives, and selves so that they can kill as many other non-combatant sons, daughters, wives, husbands, etc. They don't deserve pity or mercy.

Well, thats the picture you like to paint, isn't it? Never a word for 40 years of being 3rd class people under a semi-apartheid regime, or being colonised despite all law to the contrary.....

http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/aahmed/brother.gif

Say it, with a smile(y)!

I wouldn't be surprised if Myrmi would have put up a bitchfest at people celebrating Falwell's demise at the same time.

It's rare that I see something good written (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=2&cid=1178708611816&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)about Hamas. This is one of those rare times, so pop the cork on that Dom Perignon, pour a glass and enjoy the moment. Hamas managed to kill five of their own, while trying to ambush a jeep.



Amid all the usual stories of innocent Arabs and Jews getting killed, it's nice to hear some good news for a change.
Funny - I can imagine Hamas saying exactly the same thing had it been five dead IDF soldiers.

http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/aahmed/brother.gif

Say it, with a smile(y)!

Another incisive comment....

Funny - I can imagine Hamas saying exactly the same thing had it been five dead IDF soldiers.

Not to mention Myrmi was one of many on NSG who was howling about the Palestinians who celebrated the 9-11 attacks. Hypocrisy much?

Sorry, your logic makes absolutley no sense to me.

Then let me explain slowly:

I deplore the loss of life. Regardless of party affiliation, race, colour, creed etc, I don't see a reason to celebrate when people die.


...


Now connect the dots using your logic and make that statement to be that I'm disappointed that innocent Israelis are now safer. Go on.

Not to mention Myrmi was one of many on NSG who was howling about the Palestinians who celebrated the 9-11 attacks. Hypocrisy much?
Yeah, but these are evil muslim terrorists, so that trumps everything, of course.:rolleyes: Is it just me, or has Myrmi's threads been getting more erratic and trollish since his "anti war Democrats are traitors" thread?

I don't believe I put words in your mouth, I merely used what you said to reach a logical conclusion.

You showed disappointment at the deaths of Hamas members.

Hamas members threaten the safety of innocent Israelis.

Therefore, you are disappointed at the removal of a threat to the safety of innocent Israelis...

You shouldn't claim that I fail merely because you made a statement that, through very simple reasoning, made a point that you yourself find distasteful...

You should be apalled at anyone's death. Except for rich kids:D

Yes, yes, and America also conducted mass murder without nary a complaint. And then they turn around and whine about human rights when other people copy them.

Maybe if America portrayed itself as the new Genghis Khan instead of a mockery of 'liberty and justice for all'.

Why not start up Stalin's gulags hmm? I bet you'd just love the idea. Ooh, or how about death camps? Kill all the pesky Iraqis for the new lebensraum.

Hypocrite.

I didn't know you could be a hypocrite if you say one thing. That kind of seems like a thing where you would need to say a few and have them contradict. But I guess it's easier to debate when you dictate what the other person said.

This thread is vile, hateful, and awful.

I think its about people who live by the sword, dieing by the sword! They should get a Darwin award!:p

Yup, but barbarians win at warfare. So it's really the politicians call. Do they want to win now causing serious human rights problems but creating an environment that will be prosperous in the future, or do they want to avoid having any blood on their hands and risk many many more years of turmoil. To me it's like this, if we are going to go to war, let's go to win. If not, then why the fuck are we there?
General Sherman couldn't have said it better himself. The only way to win a war is to make it so miserable for the beaten that they surrender. Israel failed to do that with Hamas in Lebanon, we're failing in Iraq...

That's why I have my doubts whether or not we can _ever_ win a real war again. We're too civilized to have the determination and will power to fight an enemy the way it needs to be done.

We're too civilized to have the determination and will power to fight an enemy the way it needs to be done.

Your version of how to fight an enemy "the way it needs to be done" is to kill everyone in sight, regardless of innocence.

Forgive me for being GLAD that we are no longer willing to butcher a civilization en mass. Such depravity does not belong in civilized society, nor do the barbarians that advocate it.

Did you know right-wingers are more likely to have dreams involving destruction and death? I read that somewhere.

What I want to know is, how much more likely are right-wingers to get off on these dreams of death and destruction?

I am a right winger and some of my best dreams involve death and destruction. Sometimes the death is my own.

It's rare that I see something good written (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=2&cid=1178708611816&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)about Hamas. This is one of those rare times, so pop the cork on that Dom Perignon, pour a glass and enjoy the moment. Hamas managed to kill five of their own, while trying to ambush a jeep.


.


Actually when I was in the army (IDF, Corporal), we DID party when Sheikh Yassin got PWNed.

Your version of how to fight an enemy "the way it needs to be done" is to kill everyone in sight, regardless of innocence.

Forgive me for being GLAD that we are no longer willing to butcher a civilization en mass. Such depravity does not belong in civilized society, nor do the barbarians that advocate it.

That's great, but what do you do if you're attacked by someone who still fights war the old way?

That's great, but what do you do if you're attacked by someone who still fights war the old way?

Compromise rules. As the Australians know this usually ends in bloody warfare anyway, but its best to try.

It's rare that I see something good written (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=2&cid=1178708611816&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)about Hamas. This is one of those rare times, so pop the cork on that Dom Perignon, pour a glass and enjoy the moment. Hamas managed to kill five of their own, while trying to ambush a jeep.



Amid all the usual stories of innocent Arabs and Jews getting killed, it's nice to hear some good news for a change.

:eek: wow.....*hides from the flames you are about to recieve*

We're too civilized

Show us the way back to primitive barbarism, O Enlightened Neanderthal.

Compromise rules. As the Australians know this usually ends in bloody warfare anyway, but its best to try.

Some groups you can't compromise with. Look at Al Qaeda. Do you think they're looking to compromise or to strike at the US and other Western nations? I wouldn't bet on them accepting any compromises that would be acceptable to us.

:eek: wow.....*hides from the flames you are about to recieve*

On page 7? You're a little late :)

Some groups you can't compromise with. Look at Al Qaeda. Do you think they're looking to compromise or to strike at the US and other Western nations? I wouldn't bet on them accepting any compromises that would be acceptable to us.

Compromise rules, Australians, bloody warfare, In hindsight an American wouldn't get it.... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compromise_rules)

Only a hateful Zionist would be happy about some Palestinians being killed.

Compromise rules, Australians, bloody warfare, In hindsight an American wouldn't get it.... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compromise_rules)

Oh. One of those weird foreign sports. Got it.

Only a hateful Zionist would be happy about some Palestinians being killed.

Let me guess. Do not know what a Zionist is?

Show us the way back to primitive barbarism, O Enlightened Neanderthal.

Since when was war not barbaric?

Show us the way back to primitive barbarism, O Enlightened Neanderthal.
You should hope that there are enough of us Neanderthals around when you need us.