NationStates Jolt Archive

I personally think Heroes is far better then Lost, for a number of reasons.

First of all, Heroes actually explains whats going on every episode or two and doesn't leave me with that light-headed and confused feeling I get after watching Lost.

Secondly, Sylar is a far greater villain than Ben. Sylar eats peoples brains, steals people's powers, and then tries to blow up New York City. Ben, on the other hand, is a boring and unimaginative villain who spends all his time talking to Locke.

Lastly, NBC is far better than ABC.

So which do you think is better?

Haven't seen either one. :(

neither. they're terrible. Lost was good season 1, and then the producers kicked the shit out of the storyline and stretched it way too thin. i think that nbc estimated the series will run till 2010... unless it gets cancelled, of course :D

i havent really seen heroes, but it doesn't look too appealing to me anyway.

First of all, Heroes actually explains whats going on every episode or two and doesn't leave me with that light-headed and confused feeling I get after watching Lost.
That's part of the enjoyment of Lost. Heroes satisfies in the short term for those who don't have the attention span nor memory for the long term payoff. Also, you'd never get such a dedicated following for Heroes as you do for Lost because of this.

Secondly, Sylar is a far greater villain than Ben. Sylar eats peoples brains, steals people's powers, and then tries to blow up New York City. Ben, on the other hand, is a boring and unimaginative villain who spends all his time talking to Locke.
Who said Ben is the villain? And by the way, I hardly think that (Lost Spoiler Alert!) someone who kills his father and helps exterminate his own kind is a "boring and unimaginative" villain.

Lastly, NBC is far better than ABC.
Which obviously makes one show better than another...:rolleyes:

So which do you think is better?
In case it's not obvious, Lost.

Heroes flits too much from one character to another in each episode. Admittedly, Lost can get a bit dull just focusing on the one character per episode, but it's better for explaining their back-story so it's forgiven. Heroes doesn't give you long enough on each character at any one time.

Also, Heroes is an obvious mashed-up rip-off of many different things (I'm not saying Lost hasn't ripped anything off, but it's never too obvious). The Matrix, X-Men...Heroes even rips off Lost in the way the writers have created links between all the characters.

Yes, but Lost is many magnitudes more confusing than Heroes...

I'm not interested in Heroes, but if I absolutely had to choose between the two, I'd pick Heroes because I already know what a disappointment Lost has been.

They both suck. Donkey balls. Hard. And blow at the same time.

:eek: No Myrth? Myrth is better, you know.

Hereos is better as I haven't seen it. That makes it infinitly better than lost.

Heroes! They're great! You get all those tasty little chocolate bars... Time Outs, Picnics, Twirls and Crunchies... Mmmm...

And you don't need a television :)

Heroes! They're great! You get all those tasty little chocolate bars... Time Outs, Picnics, Twirls and Crunchies... Mmmm...

And you don't need a television :)

Damn. There's a whole world of candy I haven't tried, it seems. :(

Lost is teh pwn!1!!!!shift11

Heroes! They're great! You get all those tasty little chocolate bars... Time Outs, Picnics, Twirls and Crunchies... Mmmm...

pfft celebrations are better :p

And you don't need a television :)

but what do I do when the interloo's down!?

pfft celebrations are better :p
They have Maltesers. But otherwise? Hmmn, no.

but what do I do when the interloo's down!?

Play games! Read! Masturbate! Prank 'phonecalls! The possibilities... Are endless.

That's part of the enjoyment of Lost. Heroes satisfies in the short term for those who don't have the attention span nor memory for the long term payoff. Also, you'd never get such a dedicated following for Heroes as you do for Lost because of this.


Who said Ben is the villain? And by the way, I hardly think that (Lost Spoiler Alert!) someone who kills his father and helps exterminate his own kind is a "boring and unimaginative" villain.


Which obviously makes one show better than another...:rolleyes:


In case it's not obvious, Lost.

Heroes flits too much from one character to another in each episode. Admittedly, Lost can get a bit dull just focusing on the one character per episode, but it's better for explaining their back-story so it's forgiven. Heroes doesn't give you long enough on each character at any one time.

Also, Heroes is an obvious mashed-up rip-off of many different things (I'm not saying Lost hasn't ripped anything off, but it's never too obvious). The Matrix, X-Men...Heroes even rips off Lost in the way the writers have created links between all the characters.

You have got to be kidding me. Are you seriously suggesting that Lost invented inter-related characters and that any show that has that is ripping off Lost?

Dude. Have you just now started encountered stories, like in the past year or something?

"Which would I rather do: Amputate a toe or a finger? Actually I'd rather do both than watch t;v; in general anyway.

Lost. Heroes is too straightforward. You know which characters are the good guys, and which are the bad guys, and its not that ambiguous. In Lost, I have no clue which characters are going to turn out to be evil or not, and that makes it interesting.

Just for purposes of skewing the poll, I'll vote for Lost - we don't get Heroes here and I'll base my vote for Lost exclusively on the first two episodes. :p

But I'm still addicted to it even though it really gets on my nerves. <.<

I watch neither. http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/nixweiss.gif

I watch neither. http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/nixweiss.gif

Ditto. Well, I watched Lost for a while then missed some episodes and wasn't arsed trying to catch up again.

I believe we will discover that the Heroes recieve their powers through the efforts of the beings inside the hatch . . . wouldn't that be a twist!

Heroes!

(because Hiro is hawt)

I personally think Heroes is far better then Lost, for a number of reasons.

First of all, Heroes actually explains whats going on every episode or two and doesn't leave me with that light-headed and confused feeling I get after watching Lost.

Secondly, Sylar is a far greater villain than Ben. Sylar eats peoples brains, steals people's powers, and then tries to blow up New York City. Ben, on the other hand, is a boring and unimaginative villain who spends all his time talking to Locke.

Lastly, NBC is far better than ABC.

So which do you think is better?

Father Ted. :D

Heroes!

(because Hiro is hawt)

Yahoo! :)

Well, awfully cute anyway. I'm more into Nathan...

What's better. A hyped basic cable show or a hyped basic cable show.

I pick Robin Hood. Screw you guys.
If I have to pick a basic cable show, I pick House.

If I have to pick a basic cable show, I pick House.Hugh Laurie goodness.

Yahoo! :)

Well, awfully cute anyway. I'm more into Nathan...

I kinda have a thing for little Japanese guys. ;) Nathan is pretty good looking though in a traditional type of way.

(although Peter looks just like every guy I ever dated prior to meeting hubby)

Hugh Laurie goodness.

yeah. I have been a fan of his for a while.

Father Ted. :D

Winnar!

Winnar!

*lol
What can I say? Lost bores me to tears and I don't think I've ever seen Heroes at all. The name sounds a bit Cadbury-inspired, doesn't it?

Lost. Heroes is too straightforward. You know which characters are the good guys, and which are the bad guys, and its not that ambiguous. In Lost, I have no clue which characters are going to turn out to be evil or not, and that makes it interesting.

That's not completely true though. Claire's dad... err.. ring a bell?

Heroes is one of the best shows on TV in the last 5 years.

So which do you think is better?
Hmm.

Heroes has two characters who I consider worthy of breathing (Hiro, Ando), while Lost only has one (Hurley). Advantage: Heroes.

Heroes has the obligatory "stripper with a heart of gold." Lost has the obligatory "bad boy with the heart of gold." But Sawyer takes his shirt off more often, and doesn't have a rugrat (that we know of). Advantage: Lost.

The blatant pseudo-science of Heroes is not only completely goofy, but also is starting to create plot problems. Lost has managed to avoid this problem by simply not providing any details about any of the various crazy happenings. Until Lost spills more beans, I can hope and dream that their explanations will be cool. Advantage: Lost.

Heroes has a main character who is perpetually greasy and really wishes he was Neo. Lost has a main character who, as the only doctor stranded on an island with dozens of people in need of medical care, loves to run directly at every possible danger and immediately try to punch it with his surgeon's hands. Call it a draw on this one.

"Syler"? Really? You are going to actually name the villain SYLER? Advantage: Lost.

Lost definitely has a lead for now. Their increasing fixation with pregnancy is boring as hell, and recent episodes have become a bit too predictable, but they can still do a lot with what they've built up.

Hmm.

"Syler"? Really? You are going to actually name the villain SYLER? Advantage: Lost.


Don't forget he has mommy issues...

Pseudo-unrelated note: his real name is Gabriel

Heroes is one of the best shows on TV in the last 5 years.

TV in the past five years has sucked ass. TV on basic cable has sucked ass for 15.

What's better. A hyped basic cable show or a hyped basic cable show.

I pick Robin Hood. Screw you guys.
If I have to pick a basic cable show, I pick House.
NBC and ABC are broadcast channels.
TV in the past five years has sucked ass. TV on basic cable has sucked ass for 15.
What happened 15 years ago that set your seemingly arbitrary benchmark? Or is this more smug "kill your television" pretend sophistication with no real critical analysis? "I know, I'll say TV sucks. People will think I'm discerning..."

I like both shows, but if I missed an episode of Heroes, I would say, "Oh, poo, I missed an episode of Heroes. Oh well." If, however, I missed an episode of Lost, I would say, "Oh crap! Do I know anyone who taped it? Is there a way to download it from the ABC site without my computer crashing? I must know what mysteries they've answered/created this week!"

Thus, Lost wins. :)

That's not completely true though. Claire's dad... err.. ring a bell?

And the stripper. And the dude that is radioactive. And the cop. And the older brother. And the invisible dude. And the Haitian. And... come on there are tons of dudes that are constantly flipping around.

Lost is usually good show that occasionally gets so far into oddness that it gets boring. Suddenly they're fighting smoke. Oh, look, a polar bear. Hey, is that a room that will answer all my wishes? However, I keep swearing off of it and keep coming back.

Heroes is always good and I've never even considered swearing off it. The dichotomy between the hero and anti-hero is perfect and even. Even if they keep screwing up the science, I've really enjoyed the storyline and found it compelling enough to stay tuned in. Given this is the point of a TV show, I've got to give the line to Heroes.

neither. they're terrible.

Agreed. These are two of the worst shows I've ever had the misfortune to sit down to.

But, if I HAD to pick, I'd say Heroes. Lost had MASSIVE potential, but ended up shitacular.

What happened 15 years ago that set your seemingly arbitrary benchmark? Or is this more smug "kill your television" pretend sophistication with no real critical analysis? "I know, I'll say TV sucks. People will think I'm discerning..."

:rolleyes:
Basic television has been lackluster reality tv and sitcoms since the mid 90s. Even half-decent Saturday morning cartoons have been offed like characters in a Godfather movie.

:rolleyes:
Basic television has been lackluster reality tv and sitcoms since the mid 90s. Even half-decent Saturday morning cartoons have been offed like characters in a Godfather movie.

You can blame the lack of decent Saturday morning TV on the children's movement. Apparently the road runner was teaching kids to be violent.

Neither. Scrubs.

Neither. Scrubs.

Gospel.

Heroes is better than Lost, in my opinion. Generally, both shows suck, i've never even watched Heroes. I just hate Lost 'cuz my mom is a huge follower and fan of the series.

I personally think Heroes is far better then Lost, for a number of reasons.

First of all, Heroes actually explains whats going on every episode or two and doesn't leave me with that light-headed and confused feeling I get after watching Lost.

Secondly, Sylar is a far greater villain than Ben. Sylar eats peoples brains, steals people's powers, and then tries to blow up New York City. Ben, on the other hand, is a boring and unimaginative villain who spends all his time talking to Locke.

Lastly, NBC is far better than ABC.

So which do you think is better?

A good book.

Neither, because The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, Stargate Atlantis, Battlestar Galactica, and Mythbusters pwn both of those silly shows.

I'll have to go with Heroes :)

Heroes!

(because Hiro is hawt)

FUTURE hiro is hot. NOW hiro is too tentative to be hot.

lost is better for one big reason

i do not for one minute believe that heros is going to blow up new york city.

I like heroes.

Lost sucks ape balls hard.

lost is better for one big reason

i do not for one minute believe that heros is going to blow up new york city.

I don't agree. And, if they do, I have to give to them that it would be an awesome way to handle the plot. I think they definitely considered blowing it up and may actually do it. I guess we'll see.

I for one would love to see them all go boom, especially if they take the cast of Lost with them in the explosion.

I don't agree. And, if they do, I have to give to them that it would be an awesome way to handle the plot. I think they definitely considered blowing it up and may actually do it. I guess we'll see.

i dont think they can do it.

i dont think they could take the bad press of blowing up NYC after 9/11.

it would make a whole different show though, the one where hiro is a killing machine and jessica and peter end up together.

and ando is dead

and ando is dead

and there was much rejoicing.

and there was much rejoicing.

*gasp*

how could you say that?!

FUTURE hiro is hot. NOW hiro is too tentative to be hot.

they are both hawt.

they are both hawt.

noooooo

NOW hiro is just a sweet boy. he not particulary attractive at all.

they are both hawt.

From dorky, little-known Japanese actor to international sex-symbol in one episode...

...how does he do it?

i dont think they can do it.

i dont think they could take the bad press of blowing up NYC after 9/11.

it would make a whole different show though, the one where hiro is a killing machine and jessica and peter end up together.

and ando is dead

Yes and no. See they don't have to have everything happen exactly the same. Otherwise we'd already know the future and the cheerleader would be dead. Ando COULD survive.

The bad press part is a good argument. However, I would point out that it was bad press regardless of when they did and they've already blown up NYC several times. The fact that they might reverse this now is not really going to change that.

noooooo

NOW hiro is just a sweet boy. he not particulary attractive at all.

he is "super hiro!"

:p he's funny

*gasp*

how could you say that?!

I dunno, ando's a bit too much tonto to Hiro's Lone Ranger to me. And is anyone getting the ever so slight gay lover vibe going on? i mean when Ando died in the future and Hiro went all dark and broody?

From dorky, little-known Japanese actor to international sex-symbol in one episode...

...how does he do it?

he had buildup when they pimped him out for a few seconds in that subway car in like episode 6.

I've never seen either. Both seemed like they could've been good, from what I've read, but screwed themselves up, so I'm not interested in watching them.

Yes and no. See they don't have to have everything happen exactly the same. Otherwise we'd already know the future and the cheerleader would be dead. Ando COULD survive.


Did they ever say that she died otherwise? I don't remember, but I don't think they ever said that in the timeline (as they know it) Claire died.

Granted, I missed the episode that took Hiro and Ando 5 years into the future.

Did they ever say that she died otherwise? I don't remember, but I don't think they ever said that in the timeline (as they know it) Claire died.

Granted, I missed the episode that took Hiro and Ando 5 years into the future.
Sylar froze her in place first, THEN took her brains.

Did they ever say that she died otherwise? I don't remember, but I don't think they ever said that in the timeline (as they know it) Claire died.

Granted, I missed the episode that took Hiro and Ando 5 years into the future.

No, that was the point. Hiro, like everyone else, thought syler blew up the city. Likewise it was Hiro's belief that saving Claire would prevent Syler from regenerating, thus dying, and not blowing up the city.

Since it was not syler, but rather peter who blew up, saving claire actually had nothing to do with it. Which is the great irony of the show as it renders the mantra "save the cheerleader, save the world" quite untrue, as the whole reason to save the cheerleader (prevent syler from gaining regeneration) did not stop what was going to happen.

Yes and no. See they don't have to have everything happen exactly the same. Otherwise we'd already know the future and the cheerleader would be dead. Ando COULD survive.

The bad press part is a good argument. However, I would point out that it was bad press regardless of when they did and they've already blown up NYC several times. The fact that they might reverse this now is not really going to change that.

its not impossible it would just change the show completely. from something set in our time but weird to an alternate future where NYC was destroyed last fall. its written well enough that they could pull it off but do you think the audience would continue loving the show once it changed?

Sylar froze her in place first, THEN took her brains.

Can't say she didn't deserve it. Anyone having anything to do with the Bring it on movies deserves that.

No, that was the point. Hiro, like everyone else, thought syler blew up the city. Likewise it was Hiro's belief that saving Claire would prevent Syler from regenerating, thus dying, and not blowing up the city.

Since it was not syler, but rather peter who blew up, saving claire actually had nothing to do with it. Which is the great irony of the show as it renders the mantra "save the cheerleader, save the world" quite untrue, as the whole reason to save the cheerleader (prevent syler from gaining regeneration) did not stop what was going to happen.

unless "save the cheerleader, save the world" means something else, you forget that we are dealing with multiple time lines, just because what you thought it meant in one time line isn't true doesn't mean it can't be true or that it won't be true in another time line.

No, that was the point. Hiro, like everyone else, thought syler blew up the city. Likewise it was Hiro's belief that saving Claire would prevent Syler from regenerating, thus dying, and not blowing up the city.

Since it was not syler, but rather peter who blew up, saving claire actually had nothing to do with it. Which is the great irony of the show as it renders the mantra "save the cheerleader, save the world" quite untrue, as the whole reason to save the cheerleader (prevent syler from gaining regeneration) did not stop what was going to happen.

Technically untrue. It assumes that at the time that happened the Hiro they were encountering had come from the future where she'd been saved. However, as was pointed out, Hiro in one timeline had stabbed Sylar and he had regenerated. Since we know this is not that timeline, we can't really be sure who blew up NYC. Since Peter would not have met Claire had Sylar killed her he would not have regerative powers and couldn't have blown up NYC and still been around.

You have to seperate all of the events like Hiro did. You're assuming one timeline when the timeline is actually regularly changing.

I dunno, ando's a bit too much tonto to Hiro's Lone Ranger to me. And is anyone getting the ever so slight gay lover vibe going on? i mean when Ando died in the future and Hiro went all dark and broody?

you write that like its a bad thing. every super hero needs a sidekick. the sexual ambiguity only adds to ando's charm.

its not impossible it would just change the show completely. from something set in our time but weird to an alternate future where NYC was destroyed last fall. its written well enough that they could pull it off but do you think the audience would continue loving the show once it changed?

Depends on how they handled it. Look at 24. They started out almost connected to reality and slowly skewed until it doesn't resemble reality at all. Some people, not me, love that show.

Did they ever say that she died otherwise? I don't remember, but I don't think they ever said that in the timeline (as they know it) Claire died.

Granted, I missed the episode that took Hiro and Ando 5 years into the future.

its a really good episode. you should see if one of your friends taped it.

I dunno, ando's a bit too much tonto to Hiro's Lone Ranger to me. And is anyone getting the ever so slight gay lover vibe going on? i mean when Ando died in the future and Hiro went all dark and broody?

I think it's amusing, given the style of Ando and the meaning of "tonto". Ando cracks me up because he's such an odd character. Hiro bothers me more because they play up the racial stereotype so much.

But I thought Peter...then Ted...now Sylar...and Claire...with mind-reader guy...and the technokid...WHAT"S GOING ON?

*explodes*

*levels NYC*

Can't say she didn't deserve it. Anyone having anything to do with the Bring it on movies deserves that.
Yeah, same here. Lost interested in saving her after learning the actress is a smoker.

its a really good episode. you should see if one of your friends taped it.

Fri..ends? What are these things?

I'm on NSG, I don't have friends. :p

Yes, I regret missing that episode...stupid in-laws.

Depends on how they handled it. Look at 24. They started out almost connected to reality and slowly skewed until it doesn't resemble reality at all. Some people, not me, love that show.

i would probably love it. im not sure that the rest of the country would. scifi isnt particularly popular on network tv, serialized shows even less so. to make it that much more alternate universe-ish would surely kill it.

now that i think about it, im very upset that isaac is dead. what are they going to do for art next season? is peter going to have to devote his life to making isaac's comic book?

its a really good episode. you should see if one of your friends taped it.

some of the episodes are online for free viewing on the NBC website, that one might be on there.....I don't know, my husband is the one who watches them online.

i would probably love it. im not sure that the rest of the country would. scifi isnt particularly popular on network tv, serialized shows even less so. to make it that much more alternate universe-ish would surely kill it.

now that i think about it, im very upset that isaac is dead. what are they going to do for art next season? is peter going to have to devote his life to making isaac's comic book?

Agreed. That is aggravating. I loved his stuff.

now that i think about it, im very upset that isaac is dead. what are they going to do for art next season? is peter going to have to devote his life to making isaac's comic book?

I'm not entirely sure even the writers thought about that. Honestly, I'm not sure the show is supposed to go into another season.

I'm not entirely sure even the writers thought about that. Honestly, I'm not sure the show is supposed to go into another season.

Yeah. It seems like they were calling it the series finale and then changed to season finale. Now, I'm not sure what's going on. WHAT'S GOING ON?!?!?

Yeah. It seems like they were calling it the series finale and then changed to season finale. Now, I'm not sure what's going on. WHAT'S GOING ON?!?!?

well heroes has been renewed since january so they have had plenty of time to adjust the plot line to reflect a full season next year. im very curious about what they will do with another season.

well heroes has been renewed since january so they have had plenty of time to adjust the plot line to reflect a full season next year. im very curious about what they will do with another season.
I think i read on the NBC forums that heroes has been given 5 seasons.

you guys do know that they've planned a mini-spin series off of it, too, introducing some new characters, right?

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117964868.html?categoryid=14&cs=1


(18 years from now, we could be watching Heroes:Special Victims Unit)

you guys do know that they've planned a mini-spin series off of it, too, introducing some new characters, right?

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117964868.html?categoryid=14&cs=1


(18 years from now, we could be watching Heroes:Special Victims Unit)
Yeah, I wouldn't mind Christopher Meloni getting asswhupped by sylar. :D

well heroes has been renewed since january so they have had plenty of time to adjust the plot line to reflect a full season next year. im very curious about what they will do with another season.

Magneto shows up and kills everyone.

Really, the only way I can see for them to get another season is to blow up NYC and basically continue along the 5 years in the future timeline.

i stop watching both now days

I think i read on the NBC forums that heroes has been given 5 seasons.

you guys do know that they've planned a mini-spin series off of it, too, introducing some new characters, right?

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117964868.html?categoryid=14&cs=1


(18 years from now, we could be watching Heroes:Special Victims Unit)

Magneto shows up and kills everyone.

Really, the only way I can see for them to get another season is to blow up NYC and basically continue along the 5 years in the future timeline.

wow. im very intrigued about what the fuck they are going to DO.
i need to buy some sci fi magazines dont i?

:rolleyes:
Basic television has been lackluster reality tv and sitcoms since the mid 90s. Even half-decent Saturday morning cartoons have been offed like characters in a Godfather movie.

Nice eyeroll. Really accentuates the point you failed to make and the question you failed to answer. Rather cements that smilies in discussion are the refuge of those with the least to say.

Now it's "basic television." You don't even know the terms but will take up the criticism. I would argue from the evidence of your lack of actual understanding of the medium that its lack in luster remains in the hands of an unengaged viewer, since you can't seem to be able to even decern the differences between broadcast and cable.

I'll give you a primer to spare you the embarrassment of further flailing about in the hopes that you'll eventually look like you know what you're talking about.

Broadcast channels are channels that are broadcast over the airwaves and include the traditional 'big three' networks that have been around since radio, that would be the National Broadcasting Company, Capitol Broadcasting System, and the American Broadcasting Company. In addition there is FOX (the network, not the studio or news channel, nor FX the cable or 'basic' cable channel) and The CW which is constructed as a merger of The WB and United Paramount Network or UPN. All of these channels either own or lease local affiliate stations in all the major markets in the US and broadcast their signal free of charge to anyone with an antennae. This makes up the traditional television market. Even though these traditional outlets have taken a big hit over the last few years from cable and satellite providers, they are still a major chunk of the market because they can reach anyone with an antennae.

"Basic cable" refers to channels that do not necessarily broadcast (while some of them do or did, such as WGN The Superstation) but are available with a basic cable subscription without additional charge. These channels are your FX, TNT, SPIKE, Comedy Central, A&E, Bravo, Cartoon Network, etc. Many of them started life, and continue as their bread and butter, as syndicated show repositories. Your place to get even more of Law & Order should you need it. As these stations have grown they have started to produce their own content, such as The Shield or Battlestar Galactica.

Then there is premium or pay cable, which refers to channels such as HBO and Showtime, which again started off simply showing movies on their way from the theaters to the video store. They, too, have started producing their own content, and since they are premium channels they aren't under a lot of the same 'decency' standards that a wider cast channel is under so the shows could tackle different subjects, use different language, etc. In the beginning they simply used this for shows to say 'fuck' and have boobs, but shows like The Sopranos started to actually add something other than boobs or 'fuck.' (questioning really if 'boobs and fuck' are really additive to the show, but the fake curse words on Battlestar Galactica sound silly, so maybe).

So there, now you can stop grasping around for terms in a feeble attempt to look like you know what you're talking about.

Now. To your attempt at an answer that just restated your vague, "Oh look at me, I'm sophisticated enough to hate television" nonsense.

Survivor first aired in May of 2000. Only by the weirdest of contrivances can we call that the mid 90s. That show is what catapulted the 'reality show' as we know it. At best we may be able to give you The Real World if again we're a little generous with the term 'mid' as it started life in 1992. But aside from Road Rules on the same channel it didn't really spawn a lot of copy cats until after the success of Survivor. And since it was the participant in the original Real World that actually helped put a face and sympathy for the youth market and the public at large for AIDS it seems hardly fair to give that as the death knell of television. And you didn't, apparently, because you said 15 years, so we're looking for something, some magical mark that in 1993 killed television.

And never mind Candid Camera, reality programing dating back to 1948 when apparently TV was good. So it's not reality programing per se that you're upset at, it seems.

Seinfeld went off the air in 1998, and only started in 1990, so clearly this is part of the problem for you. The West Wing, from what I'm supposed to gather, is a sitcom since that's all that is apparently available from-what was it again? Basic broadcast? (Gotta get me some of the premium broadcast...) Not to mention all the procedural shows. Which, it seems from your 'analysis' are either sitcoms or reality shows.

So what is it? What was this magic bit of television we lost in 1993 when in actuality the 'reality show' trend was still 7 years away, the sitcom revival of the mid 80s that was fueled by the success of The Cosby Show was long over and it's only beacon was NBC's hold out Thursday night block whose last hold out was Friends and the short lived hangers on, and the much more pervasive and lasting trend of procedural shows steming from Law & Order, NYPD Blue and CSI-what was this magic bullet 15 years ago that made television good then but not anymore?

Since then we have seen a shift in sitcoms from the single set, studio audience three camera set up to location based single camera with no laugh track and evolving story lines. Has that ruined television for you? Did you prefer the stock living room and hook lines, and being guided to laugh by an audience or laugh track? Is that what ruined television for you? Has it been the more complex narrative dramas that also have evolving story lines and more intricate premises, location shooting, and higher production value, has that ruined television for you? Do you miss Simon & Simon and Magnum P.I., with stand alone damsel in distress plots week in and week out with cheeky one liners and mugging at the camera?

Or, finally, can we just get you to admit you were talking out of your ass and move on?

wow. im very intrigued about what the fuck they are going to DO.
i need to buy some sci fi magazines dont i?

From the second hand telling of an interview a friend heard (so take that as you may...) my understand is that the creator is far more interested in exploring the story of people coming to terms with their powers than he is people running around with powers and that if he does continue (this was before confirmation) that it will still revolve around that more than developing the characters that already exist. So he said, and again this is just relayed to me third hand, that viewers should be prepared for characters to either die or just be sidelined in order to make room for new ones.

This neatly avoids the The Greatest American Hero problem of once you've cycled through the premise of a regular Joe with powers you're left with your average superhero show.

Heroes

because:

a) the story is going somewhere

b) i think its written alot better

c) we know who's good and who's bad

d) there's a plot thats going somewhere

Why am I still appalled by certain behaviors?

If you havent ever seen Heroes - you cannot say it "sucks" because you do not have a clue. Watch it objectively - I was going to say 'with an open mind' but by now you are probably not capable of having one - and only then can you give an evaluation.

Anyway...
Heroes is a great show - it is a little fluffy for a comic, but for television they are under certain restrictions inherent to the medium. Same reason why comics made into movies tend to be horrid to a fan of the comics.

Lost, I simply couldnt ever get into - I suppose it is alright, but I just never paid much attention to it.

My only real qualm with Heroes is what they did with Sylar:

Mommy issues? Come on, they couldn't have done something better than that? "I'm going to blow up the city because mommy doesn't think I'm special."

It's just so cliched, I can't stand it. I was really enjoying his psychotic evillness up until that point.

My only real qualm with Heroes is what they did with Sylar:

Mommy issues? Come on, they couldn't have done something better than that? "I'm going to blow up the city because mommy doesn't think I'm special."

It's just so cliched, I can't stand it. I was really enjoying his psychotic evillness up until that point.
You should've seen yesterday's Law and Order: SVU. Every cliche story element they could think of, including a rehashed one.

At least it isn't Criminal Intent where they just take the news and pretend it's an episode they made up themselves.

You should've seen yesterday's Law and Order: SVU. Every cliche story element they could think of, including a rehashed one.


I did, gave up and tried to go to sleep about halfway thru.

How many women who refuse to believe they're not 16 can you meet in a city? Of course, this is Law and Order we're talking about, they've rehashed so much stuff (actors included), that it's hilarious. Diane Neal (Novak) was actually a defendent in a rape case before becoming ADA Novak, Lewis Black has been at least three different people, and they've recycled people to be victims at least twice.

My only real qualm with Heroes is what they did with Sylar:

Mommy issues? Come on, they couldn't have done something better than that? "I'm going to blow up the city because mommy doesn't think I'm special."

It's just so cliched, I can't stand it. I was really enjoying his psychotic evillness up until that point.

It fits exactly with the handling of him when he first met Saresh's father. Rewatch him before he fully became evil.

Herpes. Definitely.

Herpes. Definitely.

...this is quite possibly the most hilarious typo ever.

both are made of fail.

...this is quite possibly the most hilarious typo ever.

Why ... : ? ... THANKYOU! What a sweet thing to say.
Looks like my new name is better than the old one!

From the second hand telling of an interview a friend heard (so take that as you may...) my understand is that the creator is far more interested in exploring the story of people coming to terms with their powers than he is people running around with powers and that if he does continue (this was before confirmation) that it will still revolve around that more than developing the characters that already exist. So he said, and again this is just relayed to me third hand, that viewers should be prepared for characters to either die or just be sidelined in order to make room for new ones.

This neatly avoids the The Greatest American Hero problem of once you've cycled through the premise of a regular Joe with powers you're left with your average superhero show.

im not sure i dare post after that whoopin' you gave pantless.

lol

in the hands of a good group, i would stick around for that kind of storytelling. and so far they are a good group.

it would change the character of the show that its audience has come to love though. "save the cheerleader save the world" needs to be followed up with something equally compelling, doesnt it?

are they extraordinary enough to switch the flow of the show and keep the audience?

im not sure i dare post after that whoopin' you gave pantless.

lol

in the hands of a good group, i would stick around for that kind of storytelling. and so far they are a good group.

it would change the character of the show that its audience has come to love though. "save the cheerleader save the world" needs to be followed up with something equally compelling, doesnt it?

are they extraordinary enough to switch the flow of the show and keep the audience?

I dunno, the Hiro Nakamura fan club would probably raise hell if he were to "fall by the wayside."

I dunno, the Hiro Nakamura fan club would probably raise hell if he were to "fall by the wayside."

but would they feel the same if....jessica ....dropped out of the show?

but would they feel the same if....jessica ....dropped out of the show?

Far as I'm concerned, hell no.

Only character I'm particularly interested in is Sylar. Hiro and Ando are entertaining, yes, but the rest have started to wear a bit thin for me.

Far as I'm concerned, hell no.

Only character I'm particularly interested in is Sylar. Hiro and Ando are entertaining, yes, but the rest have started to wear a bit thin for me.

im very ready for the season to wrap up and the whole "will nyc get nuked" thing to end. as i said, i dont believe for a moment that they wont stop the bomb so its tedious to wait for it to happen.

sylar has gotten way too many powers. he is all but unstoppable, if he were sane there would be no way for anyone to stop him. that makes him less and less interesting in my book.

im very ready for the season to wrap up and the whole "will nyc get nuked" thing to end. as i said, i dont believe for a moment that they wont stop the bomb so its tedious to wait for it to happen.

sylar has gotten way too many powers. he is all but unstoppable, if he were sane there would be no way for anyone to stop him. that makes him less and less interesting in my book.

when the other options have essentially become schizo mommy, family black sheep, rebellious teen, maverick agent, mind reader guy, and an Asian Lone Ranger w/Tonto, you start rooting for the villain. Come to think of it, I usually go with the villain.

I just think his lines are funny. "This is usually the part where people start screaming." Come on, I know I laughed.

No, that was the point. Hiro, like everyone else, thought syler blew up the city. Likewise it was Hiro's belief that saving Claire would prevent Syler from regenerating, thus dying, and not blowing up the city.

Since it was not syler, but rather peter who blew up, saving claire actually had nothing to do with it. Which is the great irony of the show as it renders the mantra "save the cheerleader, save the world" quite untrue, as the whole reason to save the cheerleader (prevent syler from gaining regeneration) did not stop what was going to happen.

Except of course now Sylar is on course to actually blow up the city, by the look of the last episode I'd say he's looking forward to it.

Ando is cute, not really my type but he's a cute little fella, why all the Ando hating?

im not sure i dare post after that whoopin' you gave pantless.

lol
Hehe, no, when I'm admitting up front that I'm posting from a degree of ignorance there's only so harsh I can get...;p

in the hands of a good group, i would stick around for that kind of storytelling. and so far they are a good group.

it would change the character of the show that its audience has come to love though. "save the cheerleader save the world" needs to be followed up with something equally compelling, doesnt it?

are they extraordinary enough to switch the flow of the show and keep the audience?
I guess the key is were they lucky to create characters we'd follow this time, or can they create a new set of compelling characters for us to follow again? I think his approach is closer to the 24 formula than the Lost formula, which is to say that instead of having an arc that spans seasons, it will have arcs that are specific to each season. This year it's 'save the cheerleader, save the world' (which actually bugged me a bit), next year it might be 'get this do-dad before so and so does' or some other comic book convention.
im very ready for the season to wrap up and the whole "will nyc get nuked" thing to end. as i said, i dont believe for a moment that they wont stop the bomb so its tedious to wait for it to happen.

sylar has gotten way too many powers. he is all but unstoppable, if he were sane there would be no way for anyone to stop him. that makes him less and less interesting in my book.

Well, Peter can absorb powers, so as soon as he faces Peter, Peter has all Sylar's powers plus the ones he's already absorbed. Though that didn't help Peter last time, but the hero is supposed to lose the first encounter. It looks like they've set up a fight between the two in the last episode, so we'll see. I'm betting Peter sacrifices himself. To have someone who keeps getting more and more powerful like that would be too much.

What's better. A hyped basic cable show or a hyped basic cable show.

I pick Robin Hood. Screw you guys.
If I have to pick a basic cable show, I pick House.

Spot on, House is awsome - go Hugh go

wow. im very intrigued about what the fuck they are going to DO.
i need to buy some sci fi magazines dont i?

My guess is this – NYC gets it. All hell breaks loose. Hiro’s role is to travel back and forth through time to make things right. This could last as long as NBC wants the show to run, as you literally have infinite combinations of things that can happen. It’s just a big decision tree, and a matter of seeing what branches link up to which people at which times. You can explore the characters based on where they are along decisions, you can mess up the plot lines…you can have utter chaos and it’s all part of the story.

Once Hiro makes things right…he’s back in his cubicle in Tokyo…show ends. I mean, the show is about Hiro...

Hehe, no, when I'm admitting up front that I'm posting from a degree of ignorance there's only so harsh I can get...;p


lucky for me!


I guess the key is were they lucky to create characters we'd follow this time, or can they create a new set of compelling characters for us to follow again? I think his approach is closer to the 24 formula than the Lost formula, which is to say that instead of having an arc that spans seasons, it will have arcs that are specific to each season. This year it's 'save the cheerleader, save the world' (which actually bugged me a bit), next year it might be 'get this do-dad before so and so does' or some other comic book convention.

that does make sense. that way each season is like an issue of a comic book. it can include whoever the writers want to keep and not have to kill off the deadweight. while dealing with the whole "do we accept mutants in our society" issue---oops that was the xmen movies again wasnt it? (not that i have a problem with that)



Well, Peter can absorb powers, so as soon as he faces Peter, Peter has all Sylar's powers plus the ones he's already absorbed. Though that didn't help Peter last time, but the hero is supposed to lose the first encounter. It looks like they've set up a fight between the two in the last episode, so we'll see. I'm betting Peter sacrifices himself. To have someone who keeps getting more and more powerful like that would be too much.

peter would have to be eliminated BUT peter is very popular with the viewers. perhaps they will deal with it some other way.

My guess is this – NYC gets it. All hell breaks loose. Hiro’s role is to travel back and forth through time to make things right. This could last as long as NBC wants the show to run, as you literally have infinite combinations of things that can happen. It’s just a big decision tree, and a matter of seeing what branches link up to which people at which times. You can explore the characters based on where they are along decisions, you can mess up the plot lines…you can have utter chaos and it’s all part of the story.

Once Hiro makes things right…he’s back in his cubicle in Tokyo…show ends. I mean, the show is about Hiro...

well i tried finding a scifi magazine but no luck. so i looked up a bit online and the actor who plays hiro promised that the NYC storyline is going to be wrapped up and a new storyline started in the season finale.

I pick Robin Hood.
I am definitely with you on that one! RH is super. I expected more (Or at least some) singing from Alan-A-Dale, though.
(I still have the last three episodes to watch, though, so maybe he will surprise me).

I find something incredibly hot about watching the Nightwatchman fight. I like the archery too, of course.

Once Hiro makes things right…he’s back in his cubicle in Tokyo…show ends. I mean, the show is about Hiro...Wow, he'd save the world and still end up with an office job. That would blow.

I am definitely with you on that one! RH is super. I expected more (Or at least some) singing from Alan-A-Dale, though.
(I still have the last three episodes to watch, though, so maybe he will surprise me).

I find something incredibly hot about watching the Nightwatchman fight. I like the archery too, of course.
The series kick ass. Excellent story adaptation and excellent characters played by convincing actors. It's like they took everything that was done right with Battlestar: Galactica and applied it to the Robin Hood myth. I plan to see if I can get the DVD set in a store when it's released, if not I plan to order it.

I am definitely with you on that one! RH is super. I expected more (Or at least some) singing from Alan-A-Dale, though.
(I still have the last three episodes to watch, though, so maybe he will surprise me).

I find something incredibly hot about watching the Nightwatchman fight. I like the archery too, of course.

The series kick ass. Excellent story adaptation and excellent characters played by convincing actors. It's like they took everything that was done right with Battlestar: Galactica and applied it to the Robin Hood myth. I plan to see if I can get the DVD set in a store when it's released, if not I plan to order it.

are you guys crazy? there are episodes of robin hood that are so WRONG that you cant keep track of every wrong thing in them.

dont get me wrong, i enjoy the show, but it is in no way that anything about the show is authentic or even RIGHT.

it is as wrong about england in the time of richard the lionheart as HOUSE is wrong about the way a hospital works.

Why didn't you offer a "they're both really, really bad" option?

Sorry, but I followed Lost for the first four episodes. When the guy who was primary writer stopped writing after those four, the show was palpably weaker. As soon as I heard the menacing off-camera "roar", hinting at some kind of villanus-ex-machina, I switched off. It's Survivor with a script or Cast Away with more people.

Heroes suffers from comparison to too much very good shared-world sci-fi/fantasy. You want to see what super powers would be like in a real-world timeline, read George R. R. Martin's excellent mosaic-novel series called Wild Cards. THOSE are real people with powers.

dont get me wrong, i enjoy the show, but it is in no way that anything about the show is authentic or even RIGHT.
Sure, there are historical inaccuracies, but it is still great fun to watch. I do not think the writers and performers take the historical bits it over-seriously, and I think it works fine for the series. For example, Anjali Jay is fantastic as her Djaq, but there is no way around her being Indian rather than Arab, and from the very first shot of her it was obvious that she was female. None of that really matters, though. Just relax and enjoy the politics, romance, and battles.

Heroes. For, as it was said before me:


You see, kiddies, ever since the appearance of crap bomb known as "Lost", the suits over at the network said, "Hey, a sci-fi-esque show that more than nerds love. Plus, we still get the geek wave. You know what that means, folks, we gotta start churning out the science fauxion shows!"

These shows were like, yes, Surface, and its other contemporaries, Threshold. The ideas behind them, much like Lost, were simple: have an overwhelming cool plot that you never touch upon; instead, focus only on the characters and use them as devices to slowly dust whatever greatness could be buried under the crap.

Lost did this pretty well... when its was a sweeps month. As has been cried out over the net: things only pretended to happen.


That's why I, and countless others, adore heroes. The s*** goes down like no one's business. You don't sit there and go, "Oh, what was that? Was that something about to happen?" No, it just happens. They took the formula and said, "You know, we just have a good sci-fi show here. Let's just, oh, make it... like it should be. Why crap on it?"

Frankly, I'm surprised they got it right


And, yes, I ranted this for the sole purpose of kicking Lost in its non-existant nuts

My basis for voting Heroes over Lost, even if I haven't seen Lost:

Story arcs in Heroes only last for one season. People who missed Season 1 should be able to watch Season 2 with minimal catch-up work.

As for the ending to Heroes, New York going boom would have been an interesting alternate ending. Especially since the only way it could have worked plot-wise (unless everyone except Masi Oka, Hayden Pannettiere, and James Kyson Lee [Hiro, Claire, and Ando] had one year contracts) would have been a group hug so Hiro could teleport everyone out.

Agreed. That is aggravating. I loved his stuff.

Peter still has his visions, aye? It'll be something...

Peter still has his visions, aye? It'll be something...

Yeah. I loved the show last night. I like that the dude Peter used to take care of is a hero. The show really has a ton of potential. I'm excited for next season. Good on them.

Well, Peter can absorb powers, so as soon as he faces Peter, Peter has all Sylar's powers plus the ones he's already absorbed.

Seems to me he only gets telekinesis. Something about it being his first acquired power has made it base in Sylar. Otherwise, Peter would've gotten 'notices how things work'.

Seems to me he only gets telekinesis. Something about it being his first acquired power has made it base in Sylar. Otherwise, Peter would've gotten 'notices how things work'.

Who says he didn't get that? Remember, it always takes Peter a bit to get powerful and controlled with them.

Who says he didn't get that?

Fair point, but why did telekensis show up when he was with Claude? Is thinking of Sylar just a grab bag of all those powers?

Remember when the Paper guys had Sylar? All they could find was telekinesis. either peter just got that, which is what I think, or he picks up everything, in which case he may need to be more specific searching for the other powers...Maybe only if he thinks of the original owner of the power? But then how would he use Gabriel's intuition?

Yeah, I think it's just telekinesis...

Remember, it always takes Peter a bit to get powerful and controlled with them.

That's just it. It'd be uncontrolled. He'd've noticed it, surely?

Incidentally, is it weird if I wondered what power would result from MicahXMolly?

Yes, it's weird. Meanwhile, Since there appears to be a history, a family tree to all the heroes, shouldn't Sylar's parents have something. Do you think we'll find out something about that.

By the way, the blood trail at the end of the show. Lamest thing EVER.

What about Hiro's father's powers. Wonder what that is. And have they shown what Peter's mom can do, yet? There are all kinds of things to explore and it's clear there is still evil in the world for the heroes to combat. Better, there is still more to learn about how they cope and what they do with what they have.

Yes, it's weird. Meanwhile, Since there appears to be a history, a family tree to all the heroes, shouldn't Sylar's parents have something. Do you think we'll find out something about that.

By the way, the blood trail at the end of the show. Lamest thing EVER.

What about Hiro's father's powers. Wonder what that is. And have they shown what Peter's mom can do, yet? There are all kinds of things to explore and it's clear there is still evil in the world for the heroes to combat. Better, there is still more to learn about how they cope and what they do with what they have.

To be honest, it seems pretty random. Note Claire. Pyrokinesis plus Flight equals regen?

Perhaps Hiro's father, and maybe the entire line of Nakamura, has some control over time. After all, that did seem like a short training session to gain such proficiency. I think the dad did a bit of dilation. He was waiting for a Nakamura to ascend, right? Go over all the rest in terms of power, I suppose.

I gotta admit though, I was expecting a sort of flashy, DBZ-esque, 'Kamehameha wave' sort of final battle between Sylar and Peter, as alluded to in Five Years Gone. I rather enjoyed where Peter just punched Sylar a few times. Part of me say "FINISH HIM", but at the same time...

Also incidentally, 'Lamest thing ever'? Not so. That belongs to [zoom in onto surface of water; *bubbles*]

To be honest, it seems pretty random. Note Claire. Pyrokinesis plus Flight equals regen?

Perhaps Hiro's father, and maybe the entire line of Nakamura, has some control over time. After all, that did seem like a short training session to gain such proficiency. I think the dad did a bit of dilation. He was waiting for a Nakamura to ascend, right? Go over all the rest in terms of power, I suppose.

I gotta admit though, I was expecting a sort of flashy, DBZ-esque, 'Kamehameha wave' sort of final battle between Sylar and Peter, as alluded to in Five Years Gone. I rather enjoyed where Peter just punched Sylar a few times. Part of me say "FINISH HIM", but at the same time...

I love the fact that you have all these super powers and the fight with Sylar just becomes an old fashion ass-kicking. Nikki hits him. Then Peter. Just a beatdown.

I love the fact that you have all these super powers and the fight with Sylar just becomes an old fashion ass-kicking. Nikki hits him. Then Peter. Just a beatdown.

Well, technically Nikki used her...

Hey, would those have been super-punches Peter threw? I mean, if Niki was just there...

Still, you're right. ^_^

SPOILER ALERT.

I just watched the Heroes finale over dinner tonight, and now my vote can be official:

Heroes is a terrible, terrible show. Beyond terrible. The levels of suck in that finale were unbelievable. I actually thought they had to be kidding in several places.

Hiro--THE GUY WHO CAN TIME TRAVEL--supposedly faces yet another dilemma of save Ando or save the world. Remember, now, we're talking about a guy WHO CAN TIME TRAVEL. Of course, he appears to be rather dim, because earlier we watched Syler threaten to cut Ando's head off "before" Hiro could stop him. You know, Hiro, THE GUY WHO CAN TIME TRAVEL.

Or how about the amazing number of Magical Bullet Wounds in the finale episode alone? One moment we've got a man down, shot through, barely alive...and the next minute he's standing and walking and hugging his friends! Ta-da!

Or how about the last-minute introduction of a Mystical Black Man, just in time to provide Peter with a pep talk? Whew, thank goodness Neo found the Oracle in time!

The final scene was the worst I have seen on television in years. I'm not even exagerating with that.

Peter and Syler face off, conveniently color-coded with white for good, black for bad. Syler opens with the Darth Vader inviso neck grab, followed with the Neo bullet block.

Ali Larter steps in to hit the bad guy with a parking meter (ooh, things are looking up!), but is quickly reminded that she belongs on the sidelines being useless at the side of her bullet-wounded lover (don't worry, he'll be perfectly fine in about four minutes).

Peter, who has just been getting his ass kicked due to his complete inability to use any of the awesome powers he's absorbed, confidently tells Ali that he can "handle it."

And procedes to punch Syler.

PUNCH SYLER.

HE @#$#ing well PUNCHES him.

Thankfully, Peter's own body recognizes the epic levels of stupid he is demonstrating, and tries to blow him up for the good of humanity.

At some point, Hiro--THE GUY WHO CAN TIME TRAVEL--appears long enough to stab Syler, before being thrown aside and out of the fight. (Remember, this is THE GUY WHO CAN TIME TRAVEL.)

Claire rushes in at the last moment, as Peter is overloading, and prepares to shoot him (Hooray! Things are looking up again!).

As she points the gun at Peter, she pleads, "Please tell me there is some other way!"

We then get a shot of the sky, where Nathan flies in out of nowhere. Based on the shot they use, he was at least several hundred yards away when Claire said her last line, but when he lands he immediately responds to the words he could not possibly have heard.

"There is another way," he bravely insists. He can bravely fly up into the sky with Peter, so the two brothers can bravely sacrifice themselves for the good of humanity!

Gee, if only Peter had watched the first couple of episodes. Then he might have known that HE CAN ALREADY FLY, all by himself.

Of course, Pete clearly hasn't been watching the show at all, because he doesn't know that he can 1) time travel, 2) read minds, 3) do anything other than stand around with his bangs in his face until somebody kills him.

I desperately wanted to like Heroes. I love comics. I love superpowers. I really, really wanted to like that show. But it's terrible. I kept watching because I was sure, just so sure, that they would pull out all the stops in the finale and it would turn out to be as cool as some of the tiny glimmers of wit were hinting at.

No such luck. Terrible, terrible show.

Oh, and Mohinder's little monologues are like having herpes of the ear.