NationStates Jolt Archive

Somalia crisis worse than Darfur, says UN (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/15/wsomalia15.xml)
By Mike Pflanz in Nairobi 1:45am BST 15/05/2007

The crisis faced by up to 400,000 people fleeing fighting in Mogadishu, the capital of Somalia, is "worse than Darfur", the United Nations' humanitarian chief said yesterday.
...
"In terms of the numbers of people displaced, and our access to them, Somalia is a worse crisis than Darfur or Chad or anywhere else this year," said John Holmes, a former British diplomat and now the UN's emergency humanitarian co-ordinator.

In Darfur, more than two million civilians have fled their villages since the war erupted more than four years ago.

But the speed and size of the exodus from Mogadishu has eclipsed the emergency in the western Sudanese province, where there are established camps run by international aid agencies. There are no such camps in Somalia, an east African country already on its knees after 16 years of clan fighting and no central government.

Most of those who have fled in recent weeks, including women, children and the elderly, are camping in fields in areas surrounding Mogadishu, without access to food, shelter, clean water or medicines.
...
"Clearly there are major problems with the way these attacks were carried out, clearly major abuses went on," said Mr Holmes.

Sources: Yahoo/telegraph/OccNews.
BTW: "The government categorically denied they had been involved in any human rights abuses."

BTW: "The government categorically denied they had been involved in any human rights abuses."

Sadly I hear crickets chirping. Reality of it all is that the worlds governments don't give a crap.

Ok what's the punch line? The west is at fault? the shrub? Christians? Joos?

Ok what's the punch line? The west is at fault? the shrub? Christians? Joos?

Just blame Jesus. It's alot easier.

Just blame Jesus. It's alot easier.

Blame Canada! (oh shit.... i'm in canada)...

Blame Mexico!

Ok what's the punch line? The west is at fault? the shrub? Christians? Joos?

The punchline is that no one gives two shits about Somalia, because its Somalia, and would cease to be Somalia if anyone cared.

Besides, all the cool kids care about Darfur more.

Sadly I hear crickets chirping. Reality of it all is that the worlds governments don't give a crap.

Don't forget the people as well. Few people cared about Rwanda. Why should it be different now?

Don't forget the people as well. Few people cared about Rwanda. Why should it be different now?

Because there's no moviemakers there to do a documentary on it yet. (People cared about Rwanda AFTER the movie was made)

Don't forget the people as well. Few people cared about Rwanda. Why should it be different now?

Will there ever be a point when "never again" actually means "never again"?

Will there ever be a point when "never again" actually means "never again"?

No. Not until the situations that create these problems are removed; a reactive stance doesn't do jack shit to stop the problems, all it does is try and contain them after they've already started. If we want to stop genocide, we have to be proactive instead.

No. Not until the situations that create these problems are removed; a reactive stance doesn't do jack shit to stop the problems, all it does is try and contain them after they've already started. If we want to stop genocide, we have to be proactive instead.

What I mean is that will there ever be a point where we step in to contain genocides like we say we're going to after every genocide concludes?

What I mean is that will there ever be a point where we step in to contain genocides like we say we're going to after every genocide concludes?

That's what I mean; responding to genocide requires proactive action to get in there and prevent it before it occurs. Once the ball's rolling, all the attempts to contain genocide will meet with limited success at best.

Even if we wanted to, and dedicated ourselves to it, genocides would still occur as long as we try to contain the symptoms rather than the disease itself.

That's what I mean; responding to genocide requires proactive action to get in there and prevent it before it occurs. Once the ball's rolling, all the attempts to contain genocide will meet with limited success at best.

Even if we wanted to, and dedicated ourselves to it, genocides would still occur as long as we try to contain the symptoms rather than the disease itself.

I don't think you're getting me. What I'm saying is that people say that they will step into genocides and at least attempt to stop them whenever a genocide concludes. In short, they say that they will not stand by and let a genocide happen. If one starts, they will intervene. However, this almost never ends up happening.

I don't think you're getting me. What I'm saying is that people say that they will step into genocides and at least attempt to stop them whenever a genocide concludes. In short, they say that they will not stand by and let a genocide happen. If one starts, they will intervene. However, this almost never ends up happening.

Problem is that once the killing starts many people will die by the time the appropriate troops are able to be gathered and deployed to stop it.

However, there are indicators that people can spot before the killing starts and action can be taken. If people had acted on General Dallaire's requests, Rwanda could have been avoided......

Besides, all the cool kids care about Darfur more.

No they don't. Cool kids do not worry about third world countries, unless it one can be exploited.

I think I'm glad I don't live in Somalia.

The only hope for Somalia is if they discover oil - then the west may decide to 'intervene'

Yes, because when you have a conflict which was largely created by US-paid warlords, suddenly 'no one' cares...

No, it's not. Oceandrive, you really need to get your head straight on these issues, because the punchline here is this:

2mil Refugees from Darfur
400k Recent Refugees from Somalia

Saying that 400k recent refugees is a major problem is correct. However, saying that it's more of a problem than 2mil from a region that is run by a government that literally pays an underground militia to rape and slaughter its own civilians is silly. Aside from the massive sway of numbers, the cost of any support for Darfur would be higher than support for Somalia merely because the Darfur region is landlocked.

No, it's not.You are entitled to your Opinion.
and so is the United Nations.[/QUOTE]

I seem to recall that Ethiopia had no real interest in attacking, until the Somali Islamic Courts announced that their long term plan was to subjugate Ethiopia and turn the whole region into their version of an Islamic state.

After that, if they get their asses handed to them, it's their problem. Fuck 'em.

Will there ever be a point when "never again" actually means "never again"?

probably not

No, it's not. Oceandrive, you really need to get your head straight on these issues, because the punchline here is this:

2mil Refugees from Darfur
400k Recent Refugees from Somalia

Saying that 400k recent refugees is a major problem is correct. However, saying that it's more of a problem than 2mil from a region that is run by a government that literally pays an underground militia to rape and slaughter its own civilians is silly. Aside from the massive sway of numbers, the cost of any support for Darfur would be higher than support for Somalia merely because the Darfur region is landlocked.

On top of that the residents of Darfur face mass rapes and murder. It's an effort to wipe out that group of people. I guess Somalia is worse though because the US was partly involved. In Darfur only such benign governments as the Sudanese and their Chinese benefactors are involved. Regardless of scale if an attrocity is linked to the evil US it's always a greater humanitarian crisis.

It's sad to see the status of some of the well-known buildings/places in Mogadishu :(

Mogadishu Power House, destroyed and not in use.

The biggest fish butchery in Mogadishu. The building was destroyed during the war, and there is no market to day in the compound.

The Embassy of United States of America, known as Siliga. The building is completely destroyed.

The Embassy of China, destroyed during the war.

Mogadishu textiles market, closed.

Somali Supreme Court, closed.

Mogadishu Regional Court, closed.

Central Bank of Somalia, completely destroyed during the war.

There are five old and well-known cinemas in the Hamar Weyne district - The only one that is running is Super Cinema. The other ones are closed.

Keysaney is one of the largest hospitals in Mogadishu, and it receives assistance from the International Red Cross. The building was built by the former Government as a prison in 1990, and was ready to house prisoners shortly before the civil war started. When the civil war started however, the building was used as hospital.

Lanseleti hospital. This Hospital treated patients suffering from tuberculosis and insanity before the civil war erupted, and was run by a Finnish organisation. Now it is a home for IDPs. Lanseleti is a large area surrounded by a wall with lots of buildings inside.

The headquarter of Somali Marine Forces is now the home for IDPs.

Hayat Hospital, a modern hospital with good equipment. This hospital has an arrangement with some hospitals in South Africa to send patients there for operations that cannot be carried out in Mogadishu, provided that the patient can afford to pay the cost.

The former Oil Factory and the former Steel Factory, along with a few other abandoned buildings, are currently housing IDPs.

Mubarak Slaughter House. A huge building. All the meat from this slaughter house is exported to the United Arab Emirates. A lot of people sit in front of the building every day waiting for free entrails from the slaughtered animals.

The Steel Factory. The factory is no longer operative as all the machinery is stolen. The building is currently housing IDPs.

National Theatre, closed.

Stadium Mogadishu. The stadium has been renovated by FIFA and is currently in use. There is also a swimming pool and a basket ball hall within the stadium area. (:))

Military Police Headquarters, now occupied by homeless people.

Ministry of Health, the building was destroyed by the war.

Halane Military Training College, destroyed.

National oil refinery, completely destroyed, and its scrap metal is exported to India.

Jasira Power Station, Mogadishu´s second largest power station, completely destroyed.

Ministry of national planning, home for IDPs.

Ministry of foreign affairs, home for IDPs.

Headquarter of Somali Red Crescent, currently operational.

National Insurance Building, completely destroyed by the war.

Old Parliament, partly destroyed by the war.

The Italian Embassy. The compound is base for the militia of the deceased leader Abdullahi Dahan (died 2004). He was from the same sub-clan, Agonyare, as Abdulqadir Bebe, but they were political opponents and there were several clashes between the two. Dhahan´s militia is now under Bebe´s command.

Ministry of Interior, currently housing IDPs.

Ministry of Industries, Water and Minerals, closed.

Ministry of Post and Telecommunications, currently housing IDPs.

Ministry of Education, closed.

Criminal Investigation Department (CID). The CID headquarter is occupied by a militia of Hawiye-Habar Gedir-Ayr, headed by Abdi Madobe.

Ministry of Defence. IDPs from Habar Gidir sub clan of Saleban are living in the building now.

Ministry of Culture and Higher Education. Currently housing IDPs.

Digfer Hospital. Currently housing IDPs.

Siad (or Somali) Military Academy. Currently housing IDPs from the sub clan Duduble of Hawiye.

Military Hospital. Currently housing IDPs.

Warshadda Anaha. Former dairy products factory, currently housing IDPs.

Gaheyr University. Partly destroyed. IDPs are living there now.

Imagine how your own town might look after what this city has been through. Imagine all those places now being home to Internally Displaced People. It's a tragedy of tremendous dimensions :(

I seem to recall that Ethiopia had no real interest in attacking, until the Somali Islamic Courts announced that their long term plan was to subjugate Ethiopia and turn the whole region into their version of an Islamic state.

After that, if they get their asses handed to them, it's their problem. Fuck 'em.

This isn't about the Somali Islamic Courts. They're (mostly) gone.

No, it's not. Oceandrive, you really need to get your head straight on these issues, because the punchline here is this:

2mil Refugees from Darfur
400k Recent Refugees from Somalia

Saying that 400k recent refugees is a major problem is correct. However, saying that it's more of a problem than 2mil from a region that is run by a government that literally pays an underground militia to rape and slaughter its own civilians is silly. Aside from the massive sway of numbers, the cost of any support for Darfur would be higher than support for Somalia merely because the Darfur region is landlocked.
The difference right now is 400,000 leaving Mogadishu in a few weeks while the two million is a number that has increased over four years - there are refugee-camps set up in Darfur and Chad - there are none in Somalia outside of the capital. Hence it's worse at the moment.

But the speed and size of the exodus from Mogadishu has eclipsed the emergency in the western Sudanese province, where there are established camps run by international aid agencies. There are no such camps in Somalia, an east African country already on its knees after 16 years of clan fighting and no central government.

Ok what's the punch line? The west is at fault? the shrub? Christians? Joos?

It's part of the greater Jewish conspiracy, now with 10x more shininess.

Yeh, and the Congo's worse than Somalia.

That's the world, kids!!!!!

Yeh, and the Congo's worse than Somalia.Congo's worse than Somalia?
you are killing your credibility.

Who else here thinks the current Congo crisis is worse than Somalia.. or even Darfur?

BTW Congo Gov have sent soldiers to back up the Ethiopian Invasion.. (It is the only Gov doing that)

It's sad to see the status of some of the well-known buildings/places in Mogadishu :(



Imagine how your own town might look after what this city has been through. Imagine all those places now being home to Internally Displaced People. It's a tragedy of tremendous dimensions :(


I wish this kind of things didn't happen but it's hard to feel any really strong emotion about it. I don't mean that in an insulting way or anything but everyday theres something bad on the news it kind of desensitises me

I wish this kind of things didn't happen but it's hard to feel any really strong emotion about it. I don't mean that in an insulting way or anything but everyday theres something bad on the news it kind of desensitises me

I was looking at pictures of the city, and reading some briefs... It made me feel some strong emotions. It's a sad, sad state of affairs... :(

Too bad I can't really do anything about it. As usual.

Yeh, and the Congo's worse than Somalia.

That's the world, kids!!!!!

It's the heart of darkness over there.