NationStates Jolt Archive

Detroit police say bystanders didn't intervene in attack on 91-year-old man

DETROIT (AP) - A 22-year-old man repeatedly punched a 91-year-old man in the head during a carjacking outside a convenience store, and a group of bystanders did nothing to stop him, police said.

Store surveillance video shows each blow Leonard Sims took to the side of his face in last week's attack. The footage also shows a group of people standing a few metres away who either didn't see the attack or chose not to get involved.

"You can't really tell what they were focusing on," Maria Miller, a spokeswoman for the Wayne County prosecutor's office, said Monday.

At least one witness reported the attack, Miller said.

Sims was treated at a hospital and released.

He was outside his car in the store parking lot about 8:30 p.m. when a man walked up and asked for a light for his cigarette, according to the prosecutor's office.

The man then punched Sims at least a half-dozen times in the side of his head while Sims held onto the car door. The video also shows the man using the door to knock Sims to the ground before taking the keys and driving off in the 2005 Chevy Malibu.

Police arrested the man Thursday after a foot chase in Warren, just north of Detroit.

Deonte Bradley of Detroit was arraigned Friday on charges of carjacking and assault with intent to do great bodily harm. A judge entered a plea of not guilty on his behalf.

Court officials said Monday that Bradley did not have a lawyer.

"Is there really any reason to beat a 91-year-old just to take his car?" Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy said in a statement. "Carjacking is bad enough, but there was absolutely no reason for him to brutalize one of our senior citizens to accomplish his criminal goal."

A bruised Sims told WDIV-TV that his attacker was of "very low character."

"If he wanted the car, he could have grabbed the keys and taken off," Sims said.

An evidentiary hearing is set for next week.

© The Canadian Press 2007

I would've called the 911, then continued to watch
What would you have done?

Link:
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=df317630-c457-459a-8262-88f4bdf718f4&k=76830

I'd like to think I would have stepped in

I would've called the 911, then continued to watch
What would you have done?

Link:
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=df317630-c457-459a-8262-88f4bdf718f4&k=76830

That kinda reminds me of the last Seinfeld episode...:p

I would have helped the old guy out. Probably by kicking the shit out of his attacker if I had seen the whole thing play out. If I came in after the thing had started I would have broken it up. I kind of like to fight, and in this case I would have a legal excuse to fuck someone up.

I would have stood, dumbfounded that a 91 year old was allowed to drive a car in the first place.

Then probably have phoned the police.

Maybe throw a tin of coke at the assailant or something.

Detroit is not where I live, so what I would do here differs from what I would do in Detroit. There are legal restrictions in place that would constrain me to do nothing except call 911 (in Detroit) and wait until the carjacker left to assist the old man.

It appears that the judge believes it was assault with intent to do great bodily harm, and it might be argued that someone beating a 91 year old man like that could constitute an immediate lethal threat to him.

Since it would all be arguable, in Virginia I would draw my pistol and demand that the carjacker stop.

Whether or not I fired would depend on what happened next.

I would've stepped in. I've done it before and I'd do it again. Obviously you can understand why people won't step in due to fear of being hurt or worsening the situation.

Detroit is not where I live, so what I would do here differs from what I would do in Detroit. There are legal restrictions in place that would constrain me to do nothing except call 911 (in Detroit) and wait until the carjacker left to assist the old man.

It appears that the judge believes it was assault with intent to do great bodily harm, and it might be argued that someone beating a 91 year old man like that could constitute an immediate lethal threat to him.

Since it would all be arguable, in Virginia I would draw my pistol and demand that the carjacker stop.

Whether or not I fired would depend on what happened next.

What exactly are you talking about here? I normally live in Michigan and as far as I'm aware one could react much as you say you would. Unless there's some local Detroit law that I don't know about.

I am waiting for someone to say they would film it on their mobile phone and then put it on YouTube.

I would have casually walked up behind him and shoved his head into the top of the car.

Seriously, people, this world is starting to resemble San Andreas, and that's not a good thing!

What exactly are you talking about here? I normally live in Michigan and as far as I'm aware one could react much as you say you would. Unless there's some local Detroit law that I don't know about.

I'm not sure if you can carry concealed legally in Detroit.

I would probably step in. Not because I like fighting, or even do it very well. It's just that I've been dumb enough to get involved in shit like this in the past and I will probably do so again. I would probably be calling myself an idiot the whole time, though.

But then again, you don't step in because you are intelligent, or like fighting, or think you will win. You do it because it needs to be done.

I would probably step in. Not because I like fighting, or even do it very well. It's just that I've been dumb enough to get involved in shit like this in the past and I will probably do so again. I would probably be calling myself an idiot the whole time, though.

But then again, you don't step in because you are intelligent, or like fighting, or think you will win. You do it because it needs to be done.

The worst part is usually not the fight (bare hands or not).

The worst part is usually dealing with the police and courts afterwards. Sometimes, the police aren't very understanding, and sometimes the local prosecutor is a cheesedick.

would not be the first time I went to the hospital for protecting someone

I am waiting for someone to say they would film it on their mobile phone and then put it on YouTube.

Well, this one wasn't recorded on a mobile phone, but it was on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L1tNYK8zlc)nevertheless.

I'd have stepped in to defend the old man, if he refused I'd step in. Regardless of whether or not I thought I'd get the worst of it. But I have studied Boxxing and a little known martial art known as Peokelan that is very up close and lethal so I think I could at least give as well as I took.

I think that watching a crime like that and not attempting to break it up should be considered assisting the criminal; after all, he can get away with doing it if nobody stps him; I would call that being an accessory.

Its not always like that though... I rememebr reading a darwin award honorable mention about a guy who treid to rob a convenience store in Arizona; while a plice car was in the front parking lot... in Arizona...
He fired on shot in the air and 'everyone' in the store shot back... they picked 37 rounds of differenct caliber out of his corpse...

would not be the first time I went to the hospital for protecting someone

The rule of thumb is, if I'm going to the hospital, I'm not going to be the last one.

I think sometimes when something like that happens, people who aren't accustomed to witnessing that sort of thing just become sort of stunned, like some part of them is having difficulty actually accepting what they're seeing.

I like to think I'd get involved, not because I'm much use in a fight but rather, in the hope that others would be spurred into action by seeing me. At the same time, I know that it would probably take a few seconds to process what I'm seeing and be able to act, and in that short time a lot can happen. I wonder of those bystanders who did nothing were experiencing that... where maybe if the attack had lasted another second or two we WOULD have seen someone step up and do something.

I'm not sure if you can carry concealed legally in Detroit.

According to Michigan law a city can't regulate firearms.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(sgfxdf3g2zmtqujsb2nxd145))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-123-1102

More info on Michigan CPL laws found here http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/default.asp

I think I would've have been stumped with my brain looping "wtf is going on?"

Edit: If I got my act together, I might do something. Calling 911 would be a definite idea, but I think I am more likely to help the old man after he's been beaten.

I would've called the 911, then continued to watch
What would you have done?

Link:
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=df317630-c457-459a-8262-88f4bdf718f4&k=76830

"Collective responsibility, personal rights." Almost a textbook example of the results of a society permeated by socialist tendencies.

I would probabily kick his ass.

And he would probabily be linched to death by the population.

The worst part is usually not the fight (bare hands or not).

The worst part is usually dealing with the police and courts afterwards. Sometimes, the police aren't very understanding, and sometimes the local prosecutor is a cheesedick.

This is where you and I differ, I guess. Since I very rarely carry lethal weaponry and only engage in physical violence when absolutely necessary, I never have to explain myself to the police. In the one instance where police witnessed me getting into a fight, it was solely because I reacted a little bit faster than they did in stopping the fight that broke out. They didn't even ask my name when I walked away.

EDIT:

"Collective responsibility, personal rights." Almost a textbook example of the results of a society permeated by socialist tendencies.

The attack took place in Detroit, Michigan. Are you suggesting that Detroit is a society permeated by socialist tendencies?

This is where you and I differ, I guess. Since I very rarely carry lethal weaponry and only engage in physical violence when absolutely necessary, I never have to explain myself to the police. In the one instance where police witnessed me getting into a fight, it was solely because I reacted a little bit faster than they did in stopping the fight that broke out. They didn't even ask my name when I walked away.

In some jurisdictions (London, for instance), using your fists will get you questioned by the police, even if you believe you are in the right.

In some jurisdictions (London, for instance), using your fists will get you questioned by the police, even if you believe you are in the right.

Rightly so

Personally, I would have pushed the guy off of the old man, then I would have called for assistance from other citizens.

Often all it takes is one person to intervene, and the other bystanders leap into action.

If the guy had been armed with a knife or a gun though, I'd have ran and called emergency services.

I'd like to think I would have stepped inI'd like to think I would as well. But however much I'd like to think that, chances are I'd be like every other sheep in the crowd: waiting for someone else to make a move first. Which is typically the problem when there's a crowd watching something happen.
Hmm, maybe if I got some assertiveness training I could become more like I want.

I would've called the 911, then continued to watch
What would you have done?

Link:
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=df317630-c457-459a-8262-88f4bdf718f4&k=76830

call 911, give my name and information of what's happening, then I'ld tackle the bastard.

hopefully, that would stir others to act since I am not a fighter. :(

Me? Help out? A weakling woman of average build? A guy like that could easily beat me up and do who knows what to me. Unless, of course, some other people helped me out, going it alone against a guy who beats up 91-year-olds wouldn't be a good idea. So I'd just have to call the police.

Well you gotta get cars out of the hands of old people somehow.
I kid, I kid.

I'd probably try to get the group of bystanders to help me restrain the guy, but if they didn't help there is a chance I would try to do it alone if I felt that I could.

This is a situation where I see two very distinct societies.

The first is one focused on self-reliance. This is mostly limited to rural areas these days. In such a society people take it upon themselves to do something.

The other is the dependency society where by everyone expect someone else to take care of it. They become incapable of acting either because they don't know what to do or are afraid of doing what needs to be done or because they are wholly reliant upon someone else to do everything for them.

When witnessing such events, these two societies become apparent.

The self-reliant society (where calling 911 means a cop will get there within half an hour at best - long after the assailant has gotten away and thus police can only ever clean up afterwards so you cannot just sit back and say its the responsibility of the police to stop it) intervenes. If there are several witnesses, they shouldnt have any trouble taking down a single perpetrator.

The dependency society stands around like sheep saying "someone should do something". The best they can think of is to wait until it is all over then call the cops, by which time the old man could have been dead.

In such a situation, I leap in to try to protect the old man - I have no illusions about being a great martial artist or anything, it's just that someone has to do something, and being vaguely human and with a pulse, I happen to qualify as 'someone'. I would jump in knowing I probably couldn't take out a thug one on one, but that all the other bystanders would be doing the same. A bunch of random people off the street can take one young thug with little difficulty.

If I was not alone I would tell a person to call 911, so that he is sure that he is meant ("Hey you with this green T-shirt") and started getting myself in trouble in order to help that man. Maybe I'd just do something unreasonable because such a scene would sure make me angry!

I'd do the same thing I did when a neighbor was beating his GF. I'd call 911 and then confront the attacker. With luck, other people would jump in, or the thug wouldn't have the nerve to fight a guy who's only twice his age.

I would of called the Police, it's not my job to intervene. What am I, Jesus?

In some cases though, If I felt I would be able to stop him and not be overpowered, I would intervene.

I would have helped the old guy out. Probably by kicking the shit out of his attacker if I had seen the whole thing play out. If I came in after the thing had started I would have broken it up. I kind of like to fight, and in this case I would have a legal excuse to fuck someone up.

I feel the same way. I would have told someone else to call 911 on my way to stopping his attacker.

When the criminal was down and unconscious, I'd depart as I dont need to be part of any police report, etc...

I live in Detroit and saw the video repeatedly. He used the poor old guys head as a speed bag.

I would have reciprocated and done the same thing to him. Real tough guy that one is.

Good news is he'll go to Jackson Mi(state prison) where the other cons will either shank him or throw him off the top tier for pickin on the elderly.

I would have spinning backfisted him in the face. Pretty pathetic and sickening. The bystanders must have been pretty lame.

sit down and watch the show.

If I had a gun, I would have warned him to stop; should he disobey this order, I would then have incapacitated him.

If I had a gun, I would have warned him to stop; should he disobey this order, I would then have incapacitated him.

And you would do nothing without a gun?

another thing to consider- some of the onlookers that did nothing to stop the attack could be used as witnesses.

whats their testimony worth?

I would step in and at the same time yell at someone to call the cops.
Not that I would be able to beat a carjacker or anything, I'm a crap figher, but atleast it would stop him from hitting someone weaker than me. I got a decent record when it comes to good samaritin things...

Unfortunately, you never know when someone is going to be carrying a weapon.

I would have called 911, but I have 2 kids that need their mom. Perhaps thats egocentric. My brother tried to stop a robbery at a store he worked at, and luckily, he wasn't shot, but a coworker was...they had no idea the guy had a gun.

It's terrible that it happened, and if those bystanders truly did NOTHING, didn't call for police or whatever, then that is abhorrent. If they stood, and called the police, then they did what could be expected.

Is the gentleman ok, I don't think I've seen this story other than here.

In theory, I would do something to intervene.

someone jacked a malibu?! talk about low aspirations!


in all seriousness though, that's seriously fucked up. if the attacker was my size or smaller i'd have gone and kicked his head in.

And you would do nothing without a gun?

Of course I would not; such an action would be foolhardy and idiotic. The assailant may have been in possession of some sort of weapon.

Called 911 and, while he was busy beating on an old man, smacked him upside the head with my purse.

My purse has been likened to a brick.

And I have done stuff like that before on the subway -- often times, all it needs is one person yelling and causing a fuss to bring others to their senses.

Of course I would not; such an action would be foolhardy and idiotic. The assailant may have been in possession of some sort of weapon.
You're tough.

Anyway, Id have yelled for someone to call 911, then gone up to the guy and beat the living shit out of him as best I could.

I am waiting for someone to say they would film it on their mobile phone and then put it on YouTube.

I'd get someone to video me walking up behind him and kicking him square in the asshole. Nothing ruins an attempted carjacking like filling your pants with brown trout.

I would've called the 911, then continued to watch
What would you have done?

Link:
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=df317630-c457-459a-8262-88f4bdf718f4&k=76830

I have no idea.

You're tough.

How can you say that without knowing my physical characteristics? Granted, I have been blessed with bulging muscles, but even my brute strength would be insufficient to counter the devastating potential of a bullet or a sharp blade.

I kind of like to fight, and in this case I would have a legal excuse to fuck someone up.

My sentiments exactly. :D

How can you say that without knowing my physical characteristics? Granted, I have been blessed with bulging muscles, but even my brute strength would be insufficient to counter the devastating potential of a bullet or a sharp blade.
Does it matter? He's attacking a helpless old man.

Better to die/be seriously injured a hero than a coward, I say.

Does it matter? He's attacking a helpless old man.

Better to die/be seriously injured a hero than a coward, I say.

How many times have you actually made that decision? To actually be harmed enough to die instead of just standing there.

Chances are most people would be stunned, and unable to really think logically or do what they had hoped they would have done, they just aren't accustomed to that sort of violence.

Did it say he even had a weapon? He was just some asshat beating up a really old guy.

Did it say he even had a weapon? He was just some asshat beating up a really old guy.

The witnesses didn't know that.

The witnesses didn't know that.It was Canada. I don't think they have quite the propensity of putting holes in people on a whim as Americans.

Since when is DETROIT in Canada? Did they steal it? LET'S INVADE THEM!!!!





Oh, wait. That didn't work so well the last time, did it?

We traded it to them last year for Vancouver. ;)

It was Canada. I don't think they have quite the propensity of putting holes in people on a whim as Americans.

It was not in Canada.

Since when is DETROIT in Canada? Did they steal it? LET'S INVADE THEM!!!!





Oh, wait. That didn't work so well the last time, did it?

That's okay, Harper would just shit his pants and surrender, because we gotta have good relations with the USA, no matter what the cost.:rolleyes:

That's okay, Harper would just shit his pants and surrender, because we gotta have good relations with the USA, no matter what the cost.:rolleyes:

Man, whatever happened to the spirit of 1812? Come on Canada, don't disappoint! PLEASE! :-D

Man, whatever happened to the spirit of 1812?
Almost 200 years.

Since when is DETROIT in Canada? Did they steal it? LET'S INVADE THEM!!!!

The canada.com thing messed me up when I glanced at it. And they traded Vancouver for it.

Anyway, on to how do we know a bystander wasn't armed?

Man, whatever happened to the spirit of 1812? Come on Canada, don't disappoint! PLEASE! :-D


Canada... we won the war of 1812 (go Canada!)

Sad reality is, the US is stronger now and we're still using the same equipment.

I suspect that most of the people around me witnessing the scene would be psychologically stunned. If I were to intervene, I would initially have to be doing so alone, and I'm not exactly the most qualified person in the world to engage in a one-on-one fair fight. I'm also not qualified to fight (while unarmed) someone who might possibly be carrying a weapon. I don't generally carry a weapon of my own.

Two tasks need to be done ASAP, preferably by different people: call 911, and attack.

If I'm going to attack, then I'm going to find something to use as a weapon and sneak up on him to stun him in the back of the head or some such thing. Failing that, I won't attack unless I can organize a few other bystanders to go in with me. "I'm going to jump him and go for his neck. You two pin his arms, make sure he can't gab a weapon. You two, grab his legs, make sure he can't kick us off."

In this situation, the environment (middle of a parking lot) doesn't provide a lot of objects that can be used as a weapon. (If the attack happened in a restaurant, for example, one could grab a chair or a stack of dishes and use that as a blunt weapon.)

If someone else takes the lead, then it's safer for me to go in and assist. While the thug is busy with the first bystander to intervene, I can approach and find an opening to strike.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

Draw down

This situation is precisely the reason for keeping a gun.

It was Canada. I don't think they have quite the propensity of putting holes in people on a whim as Americans.
Hmm, I have suddenly become Canadian! Holy crap!

Anyway, I've never been in a fight in all my life. I've simply never been in the situation that called for it. Now, watching a man older than my grandfather get beaten is definitely one of those situations that calls for action. It is so morally outrageous that I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I did nothing. Best bet is to grab a weapon and throw down while someone runs for help.

Hmm, I have suddenly become Canadian! Holy crap!

Well, we Michiganders do like hockey, get coffee at Tim Horton's, and drink lots of beer......

I would've called the 911, then continued to watch
What would you have done?


I would have called the police (or told someone else to do so), then rushed to help the old man. I usually act impulsively in such cases.:(

A group should poll those who stood and watched the man get beat and ask if they would have done something, because, honestly, it would probably be similar in number of people that have posted here saying that they would've done something to the attacker. We say we will, but we don't.

If it was a white gentile being attacked I would have stepped in and kicked the shit out of the mongrel probably black attackers.

However if the guy was a minority I would walk away.

If it was a white gentile being attacked I would have stepped in and kicked the shit out of the mongrel probably black attackers.

However if the guy was a minority I would walk away.

Okay.. :p

A group should poll those who stood and watched the man get beat and ask if they would have done something, because, honestly, it would probably be similar in number of people that have posted here saying that they would've done something to the attacker. We say we will, but we don't.

Quite possibly, yes... this is a sad, but well-documented phenomenon known in the field of psychology as the Bystander effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect). Of particular interest is the part where it talks about what you can do to counter it:

"To counter the bystander effect when you are the victim, a studied recommendation is to pick a specific person in the crowd to appeal to for help rather than appealing to the larger group generally. This places all responsibility on that specific person instead of allowing it to diffuse. Furthermore, pluralistic ignorance is countered by the implication that all bystanders are indeed interested in helping, and social proof kicks in when one or more of the crowd steps in to assist."

I would very much like to say "Oh, i would run in and save the poor defensless little old man" however, i am very aware of the fact that i am a 5'5 female, with little muscle mass and no training in self defence. The rational part of my brain would sit there shouting very loudly "No dont be stupid".

Anyway, if its a choice of one of the two of us getting hurt, me or a 91 year old, then im sorry but its going to have to be the old guy. Its selfish but he doesnt have long left to live and i (hopefully) do so i would much prefer for him to be the one that got killed.

I suspect that most of the people around me witnessing the scene would be psychologically stunned. If I were to intervene, I would initially have to be doing so alone, and I'm not exactly the most qualified person in the world to engage in a one-on-one fair fight. I'm also not qualified to fight (while unarmed) someone who might possibly be carrying a weapon. I don't generally carry a weapon of my own.

Two tasks need to be done ASAP, preferably by different people: call 911, and attack.

If I'm going to attack, then I'm going to find something to use as a weapon and sneak up on him to stun him in the back of the head or some such thing. Failing that, I won't attack unless I can organize a few other bystanders to go in with me. "I'm going to jump him and go for his neck. You two pin his arms, make sure he can't gab a weapon. You two, grab his legs, make sure he can't kick us off."

In this situation, the environment (middle of a parking lot) doesn't provide a lot of objects that can be used as a weapon. (If the attack happened in a restaurant, for example, one could grab a chair or a stack of dishes and use that as a blunt weapon.)

If someone else takes the lead, then it's safer for me to go in and assist. While the thug is busy with the first bystander to intervene, I can approach and find an opening to strike.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

A group should poll those who stood and watched the man get beat and ask if they would have done something, because, honestly, it would probably be similar in number of people that have posted here saying that they would've done something to the attacker. We say we will, but we don't.

All it takes is one person and the group will also join. (well those who are able to)

It takes someone to provide the action that spurs the rest into action.

Group dynamics...great fun.

All it takes is one person and the group will also join. (well those who are able to)

It takes someone to provide the action that spurs the rest into action.

Group dynamics...great fun.

Some of my friends used to have fun with this in school. At lunch a group of us would start running and shouting incoherantly, and people would follow to see what was going on.

who the fuck cares? he's 91. :rolleyes: