NationStates Jolt Archive

To prevent the hijacking of another thread. I've created this one.

Options, sure we all have em, it can be simple options like what flavor of ice cream to choose out of 31 flavors, or what extras to put in your car.

others are not so simple. what do you want to be when you grow up, or what do you do when your life changes drastically, for better or worse.

but what about the options.

Dictionary.com puts option as...
op·tion
–noun
1. the power or right of choosing.
2. something that may be or is chosen; choice.
3. the act of choosing.
4. an item of equipment or a feature that may be chosen as an addition to or replacement for standard equipment and features: a car with a long list of extra-cost options; a telephoto lens option for a camera.
5. stock option.
6. a privilege acquired, as by the payment of a premium or consideration, of demanding, within a specified time, the carrying out of a transaction upon stipulated terms; the right, as granted in a contract or by an initial payment, of acquiring something in the future: We bought one lot and took a 90-day option on an adjoining one.
7. Football. a play in which a back has a choice of either passing or running with the ball.

Some seem to define an option as only being the viable choices one can make in any given situation. if the choice isn't viable, then it cannot be catagorized as an option.

I, however, say that whether or not the choice is viable, it's still considered an option. The value or that option as a choice changes as the situation changes, but it's still an option.

So now the discussion point. what do you 'do' with choices that are not viable at that time. Do you still hold that choice as an option in your mind? Do you toss that choice away, forever declaring it as an "option never to be considered", or do you try to change the situation to make that option a viable choice.

And this is for any situation. so think back to your major choices at the time and try to remember the decision making process you went though.

Do you toss that choice away, forever declaring it as an "option never to be considered"
That one. Anything else is idiotic. If the option isn't feasible, why dwell on it? Self pity?

To prevent the hijacking of another thread. I've created this one.

Options, sure we all have em, it can be simple options like what flavor of ice cream to choose out of 31 flavors, or what extras to put in your car.

others are not so simple. what do you want to be when you grow up, or what do you do when your life changes drastically, for better or worse.

but what about the options.

Dictionary.com puts option as...
op·tion
–noun
1. the power or right of choosing.
2. something that may be or is chosen; choice.
3. the act of choosing.
4. an item of equipment or a feature that may be chosen as an addition to or replacement for standard equipment and features: a car with a long list of extra-cost options; a telephoto lens option for a camera.
5. stock option.
6. a privilege acquired, as by the payment of a premium or consideration, of demanding, within a specified time, the carrying out of a transaction upon stipulated terms; the right, as granted in a contract or by an initial payment, of acquiring something in the future: We bought one lot and took a 90-day option on an adjoining one.
7. Football. a play in which a back has a choice of either passing or running with the ball.

Some seem to define an option as only being the viable choices one can make in any given situation. if the choice isn't viable, then it cannot be catagorized as an option.

I, however, say that whether or not the choice is viable, it's still considered an option. The value or that option as a choice changes as the situation changes, but it's still an option.

So now the discussion point. what do you 'do' with choices that are not viable at that time. Do you still hold that choice as an option in your mind? Do you toss that choice away, forever declaring it as an "option never to be considered", or do you try to change the situation to make that option a viable choice.

And this is for any situation. so think back to your major choices at the time and try to remember the decision making process you went though.

You continue this strawman. No one said that it will never become an option. No one said that it is never an option. No one ever used the word NEVER. You said it is always an option in reply to a myth that says that people can move if they are unemployed. While it is sometimes possible it is not always possible and this was what you replied to. Your attempt to continue your strawman is either your lack of understanding or being intentionally obtuse.

Some seem to define an option as only being the viable choices one can make in any given situation. if the choice isn't viable, then it cannot be catagorized as an option.

I, however, say that whether or not the choice is viable, it's still considered an option. The value or that option as a choice changes as the situation changes, but it's still an option.

So you would say that I, despite being female, personally have the option to have a vasectomy?

That one. Anything else is idiotic. If the option isn't feasible, why dwell on it? Self pity?to change the situation to make the option fesable... in order to do that, you have to still consider it an option..

you may not have the viable option to buy a sports car, so do you give up any hope to own a sports car? or do you try to change the stituation so that the option of buying a Sports car becomes feasable.

You continue this strawman. No one said that it will never become an option. No one said that it is never an option. No one ever used the word NEVER. You said it is always an option in reply to a myth that says that people can move if they are unemployed. While it is sometimes possible it is not always possible and this was what you replied to. Your attempt to continue your strawman is either your lack of understanding or being intentionally obtuse. er. the statement was "It's the Great American Myth that people can move to where the jobs are." it didn't state "it's the Great American Myth that People can ALWAYS move to where the jobs are." or "it's the Great American Myth that People can AT ANYTIME move to where the jobs are."

I also NEVER said that "Moving is always a GOOD/VIABLE option." yet you also displayed your strawman that insists that I did.

I never said that Moving is always a GOOD/VIABLE option. I just said it was always an option.

also I love your strawmen about changing into birds and blowing up. somewhere you used up more straw than you accused me of.

besides... ever heard the term "Keeping your options open"? That means, even tho those options are "not viable" you still keep them in your mind as OPTIONS until they become viable. thus they are still OPTIONS.

So you would say that I, despite being female, personally have the option to have a vasectomy?

IF you can consider it an option. after all, there are women out there with functional sexual organs of both sexes.

So yes, you can consider it an option, not a viable option but it's still an option.

So you would say that I, despite being female, personally have the option to have a vasectomy?

No, in your instance a vasectomy really isn't an option you would be given.

I think Junii's point is that there is a difference between a viable option and something that would be a choice.

I frequetly tell my wife I don't have a choice on the matter, and I must do X.

She always retorts with, "No, you always have a choice."

And I inherently respond with, "No, I have two options to do X, or not to do X, and I rule out not doing X because of these reasons, therefore, I am left with only 1 choice."

Maybe this is just my point of view, but I can have many options, and rule those options out leaving me with the option I choose, or the only valid choice.

I thought there's be a pole.. why no pole? I like poles...:p

Options are only options when they are viable choices, and what makes them viable is the specific situation.

That something will be a viable choice in the future is totally contingent upon that future situation and has no effect upon whether it is an option now.

I thought there's be a pole.. why no pole? I like poles...:p

The Irish are better.

Why the hell don't these threads make any sense to me?

Why the hell don't these threads make any sense to me?

Join the club.

to change the situation to make the option fesable... in order to do that, you have to still consider it an option..

No, you don't. You have to consider trying to make it feasible an option.

you may not have the viable option to buy a sports car, so do you give up any hope to own a sports car? or do you try to change the stituation so that the option of buying a Sports car becomes feasable.

If you really want a sports car, you'll try to get a sports car, but until you can afford it, you don't have the option of buying a sports car. You obviously cannot choose to buy a sports car until it is possible to do so.

er. the statement was "It's the Great American Myth that people can move to where the jobs are." it didn't state "it's the Great American Myth that People can ALWAYS move to where the jobs are." or "it's the Great American Myth that People can AT ANYTIME move to where the jobs are."

No, but by both context and NA's later statements, it was exceedingly obvious that this what he meant.

I also NEVER said that "Moving is always a GOOD/VIABLE option." yet you also displayed your strawman that insists that I did.

No one, including Jocabia, ever suggested that this was your argument. You were the only person to ever bring this up. You basically made a strawman by pretending that others were making that strawman.

I never said that Moving is always a GOOD/VIABLE option. I just said it was always an option.

Just like me getting a vasectomy.

besides... ever heard the term "Keeping your options open"? That means, even tho those options are "not viable" you still keep them in your mind as OPTIONS until they become viable. thus they are still OPTIONS.

Keeping your options open has nothing to do with non-viable options. It has to do with not closing off any of the options you have.


IF you can consider it an option. after all, there are women out there with functional sexual organs of both sexes.

So yes, you can consider it an option, not a viable option but it's still an option.

I don't have a penis/testicles. I made that clear in the other thread. To consider a vasectomy to be an option would be idiotic, considering that I cannot choose to have one - it is impossible.

Right, so you are arguing to the point of absurdity. And thus, Jocabia's "turn into a bird and fly away" option is not a strawman. It is exactly what you are arguing. Even the absolutely impossible - something you absolutely cannot choose - is an "option" to you.


No, in your instance a vasectomy really isn't an option you would be given.

Why not? It obviously doesn't have to be possible to be an option? Why on Earth would a vasectomy not be an option for me?

I think Junii's point is that there is a difference between a viable option and something that would be a choice.

I frequetly tell my wife I don't have a choice on the matter, and I must do X.

She always retorts with, "No, you always have a choice."

And I inherently respond with, "No, I have two options to do X, or not to do X, and I rule out not doing X because of these reasons, therefore, I am left with only 1 choice."

Maybe this is just my point of view, but I can have many options, and rule those options out leaving me with the option I choose, or the only valid choice.

This has nothing to do with Junii's argument, however. Junii's argument is that even if the only possible choices you could make are X and Y, Z is ALWAYS an option. It's like saying, "Well, we only have bread and rice, but you always have the option of eating chicken, even though there is no chicken."

Options are only options when they are viable choices, and what makes them viable is the specific situation.

That something will be a viable choice in the future is totally contingent upon that future situation and has no effect upon whether it is an option now.

Although you certainly may have the option to work towards expanding the options available to you.

i quite often opt for the choice that is not viable. for example when i hve an essay to do in a week, i have the option of going to the library and getting somebooks out and then studying, or going to the offie for a bottle or two and getting shitfaced. then there's the times where i have an esay due for the next day, i have the option of stocking up on energy drinks and working through the night, or i have the option of going to bed and trusting the essay pixies to do it for me. in both cases the latter option is always the most attractive and i have chosen it many times.

A good poll need at least 75 of them. However, jolt limits us to just 10. Stupid jolt!

*snip*

I needn't reply when you reply for me so effectively.

The absurdity of this continued attempt to make the argument into semantics when no stretch of semantics will make his argument defensible is just silly.

It is entirely illogical to claim that NA ever suggested that moving was NEVER an option. Only one poster in that particular discussion spoke of absolutes and his name is JuNii. Again, I point to his "I was wrong" diatribe. It clearly has to change my position because simply presenting the position in opposition to what he is claiming he meant would be ACTUALLY admitting he was wrong.

EDIT: Prisoner: Having oatmeal for breakfast every day is killing me.
Guard: Well you have the option of steak and eggs.
Prisoner: There's steak and eggs?
Guard: Huh? No, clown. Where did you get that from what I said?