NationStates Jolt Archive

Many evangelicals who help make up the base of the Republican party have problems backing Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney. It's mainly because he's a Mormon.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0509.sullivan1.html

It seems to me that this reveals something about how Evangelical Republicans view the US. They seem to think that a president can and will impose his religion upon the country. If they didn't Romney's religion wouldn't matter at all. He'd still be in line with them on issues of abortion, gays, and other social policy issues. What does that say about their plans when they get enough conservative evangelicals into office? What does that say about their view of the establishment clause of the Constitution?

It probably says many of the same things about them as the general moaning about George W. Bush's identifying himself as a practicing Christian says about the left.

But on a serious note, I think part of the problem is that religious bigotry is alive and well in the USA and not just against Jews or Muslims. I'm a Mormon myself and you'd be amazed at how many time's I've been told -to my face- that I'm going to Hell for worshipping a different Jesus.

...I wasn't aware that there was much of a selection of Jesuses to choose from.

You'd be amazed at how many times I've been told by the same people that I'm not a Christian. (buh? Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints)

It all boils down to pride and a sprinkling of arrogance. "I worship Jesus better than you" is between every two lines and nothing would be more galling to those folks than a Mormon gaining the prestige of being elected President of the USA. Remember that to these people the LDS church is a cult, and nothing would legitimize it more in the eyes of the population at large than to have one of its own practicing members being so vindicated.

Of interest to some: Within the Church, we've been neither encouraged nor discouraged to vote for Romney. It's a political election, in a secular Government, and the Church does not make a point to tell its members whom to vote for.

What does the Mitt Romney thing reveal about the religious right?

That they aren't. ;)

Many evangelicals who help make up the base of the Republican party have problems backing Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney. It's mainly because he's a Mormon.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0509.sullivan1.html

It seems to me that this reveals something about how Evangelical Republicans view the US. They seem to think that a president can and will impose his religion upon the country. If they didn't Romney's religion wouldn't matter at all. He'd still be in line with them on issues of abortion, gays, and other social policy issues. What does that say about their plans when they get enough conservative evangelicals into office? What does that say about their view of the establishment clause of the Constitution?

We've always had this problem.

Remember when Kennedy was running for President? A lot of Protestants thought that it would be bad that a Catholic would be President, because technically, Catholics owe some degree of allegiance to the Pope.

Even atheists are convinced that any religious person won't be able to keep his (or her) religion out of their decisionmaking.

And most religious people don't believe that an atheist will protect religious freedoms, because there's a general perception that atheists hate religions.

Many evangelicals who help make up the base of the Republican party have problems backing Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney. It's mainly because he's a Mormon.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0509.sullivan1.html

It seems to me that this reveals something about how Evangelical Republicans view the US. They seem to think that a president can and will impose his religion upon the country. If they didn't Romney's religion wouldn't matter at all. He'd still be in line with them on issues of abortion, gays, and other social policy issues. What does that say about their plans when they get enough conservative evangelicals into office? What does that say about their view of the establishment clause of the Constitution?

It says the same thing as why the Republicans would never put a practicing Roman Catholic for President.

Yes, they believe that the President must be spiritual, but not that he must "impose his religion upon the country." Bush hasn't done that or Chrstianity would be required of all citizens and we all know that can't happen.

It says that the Repulican party, while they want someone that is religious and spiritual does not want someone that will put their religion before their country. In other words, they are Americans first and [insert religious affiliation] second. Many of them are afraid that Romney cannot, or won't be able to do this. Though, as the article says, "'there is no telling how this will play out,' and 'it's even possible to think that Romney's Mormonism could become a hidden asset.'"

Its says the same thing as why the Republicans would never put a practicing Roman Catholic for President.

Yes, they believe that the President must be spiritual, but not that he must "impose his religion upon the country." Bush hasn't done that or Chrstianity would be required of all citizens and we all know that can't happen.

It says that the Repulican party, while they want someone that is religious and spiritual does not want someone that will put their religion before their country. In other words, they are Americans first and [insert religious affiliation] second. Many of them are afraid that Romney cannot, or won't be able to do this. Though, as the article says, "'there is no telling how this will play out,' and 'it's even possible to think that Romney's Mormonism could become a hidden asset.'"
He's taken steps in that direction. He's allowed the Federal government to fund religious charities even if they don't show themselves to be effective and discriminate in hiring based on religious grounds.

What evidence is there that a Mormon would put religion before country?

He's taken steps in that direction. He's allowed the Federal government to fund religious charities even if they don't show themselves to be effective and discriminate in hiring based on religious grounds.

What evidence is there that a Mormon would put religion before country?

I think that in the case of a President, we would want evidence that a Mormon would NOT put religion before country... considering the mistake that would happen if he did...

Many evangelicals who help make up the base of the Republican party have problems backing Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney. It's mainly because he's a Mormon.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0509.sullivan1.html

It seems to me that this reveals something about how Evangelical Republicans view the US. They seem to think that a president can and will impose his religion upon the country. If they didn't Romney's religion wouldn't matter at all. He'd still be in line with them on issues of abortion, gays, and other social policy issues. What does that say about their plans when they get enough conservative evangelicals into office? What does that say about their view of the establishment clause of the Constitution?
I thought you might have been talking about the intolerance of the evangelical left, i.e. The Reverend Al Sharpton. A flat out statement that Romney doesn't believe in God is about as damning as it gets.

For those of you that depend on the rest of us for context, this is what Sharpton said...

BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- The Rev. Al Sharpton, who recently urged that radio host Don Imus be fired for making a racially insensitive remark, said in a debate that "those who really believe in God will defeat" Republican Mitt Romney for the White House.


And for those that can't google, here's a link.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/09/romney.sharpton.ap/index.html

I thought you might have been talking about the intolerance of the evangelical left, i.e. The Reverend Al Sharpton. A flat out statement that Romney doesn't believe in God is about as damning as it gets.

For those of you that depend on the rest of us for context, this is what Sharpton said...


And for those that can't google, here's a link.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/09/romney.sharpton.ap/index.html

Democrats generally forget that there's an evangelical left, until election time, when they pretend to have religions, can't remember Bible verses, and generally fall all over themselves trying to convince people that they've always had religious beliefs of a serious nature.

About as silly as watching them pretend to hunt ducks, in an attempt to pander to gun rights advocates.

In either case, it's too silly to watch. I wish they would stop faking it.

Democrats generally forget that there's an evangelical left, until election time, when they pretend to have religions, can't remember Bible verses, and generally fall all over themselves trying to convince people that they've always had religious beliefs of a serious nature.

About as silly as watching them pretend to hunt ducks, in an attempt to pander to gun rights advocates.

In either case, it's too silly to watch. I wish they would stop faking it.

I really thought that Sharpton was due a little of the Imus treatment after that, but it didn't happen. I don't imagine it had anything to do with the preponderance of Democrats and liberals that staff our newsrooms, did it?

It probably says many of the same things about them as the general moaning about George W. Bush's identifying himself as a practicing Christian says about the left.


It's not that he's a practicing christian, it's that he thinks he was appointed by god himself.

Incidentally, we fought a revolution to get away from the last George who thought he was appointed by god...

I think that in the case of a President, we would want evidence that a Mormon would NOT put religion before country... considering the mistake that would happen if he did...

Why is that evidence demanded from Mormons and not from other religions?

Why is that evidence demanded from Mormons and not from other religions?

Some people wanted it from Kennedy.

Why does religion have to be involved with politics in the first place?

I really thought that Sharpton was due a little of the Imus treatment after that, but it didn't happen. I don't imagine it had anything to do with the preponderance of Democrats and liberals that staff our newsrooms, did it?

Nah, couldn't be. Officially on NS General, there's no such thing as liberals who run newsrooms or work as reporters.

I thought you might have been talking about the intolerance of the evangelical left, i.e. The Reverend Al Sharpton. A flat out statement that Romney doesn't believe in God is about as damning as it gets.

For those of you that depend on the rest of us for context, this is what Sharpton said...


And for those that can't google, here's a link.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/09/romney.sharpton.ap/index.html

Yeah, Sharpton's a dick. Maybe I'm being too narrow in pointing only at the religious right, but right now Romney's looking for Republican votes, and it's the Evangelical Republicans who won't vote for him based on his faith.

It's not that he's a practicing christian, it's that he thinks he was appointed by god himself.

Incidentally, we fought a revolution to get away from the last George who thought he was appointed by god...

Yeah, but he smelled funny. *nod*

Many evangelicals who help make up the base of the Republican party have problems backing Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney. It's mainly because he's a Mormon.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0509.sullivan1.html

It seems to me that this reveals something about how Evangelical Republicans view the US. They seem to think that a president can and will impose his religion upon the country. If they didn't Romney's religion wouldn't matter at all. He'd still be in line with them on issues of abortion, gays, and other social policy issues. What does that say about their plans when they get enough conservative evangelicals into office? What does that say about their view of the establishment clause of the Constitution?
It's been the same bullshit since Kennedy.

Why does religion have to be involved with politics in the first place?

Because the majority of Americans want someone that believes in a higher power than themselves and the rest of humanity. The majority of Americans want a President that is spiritual, and as such has faith and religion.

Why does religion have to be involved with politics in the first place?

It shouldn't be. That's what makes this whole thing so distasteful.

Yeah, Sharpton's a dick. Maybe I'm being too narrow in pointing only at the religious right, but right now Romney's looking for Republican votes, and it's the Evangelical Republicans who won't vote for him based on his faith.

because some evangelicals see Mormonism as a cult.

would you vote for a scientologist?

because some evangelicals see Mormonism as a cult.

would you vote for a scientologist?

Maybe. Depends on his position on the issues.

Maybe. Depends on his position on the issues.

I don't believe you. ;)

Of interest to some: Within the Church, we've been neither encouraged nor discouraged to vote for Romney. It's a political election, in a secular Government, and the Church does not make a point to tell its members whom to vote for.

And it better not, if it wants to keep its tax exempt status.

would you vote for a scientologist?

To be honest, I find scientology as dogmatically nutty as I do christianity...and I've voted for a christian every presidential election....

To be honest, I find scientology as dogmatically nutty as I do christianity...and I've voted for a christian every presidential election....

never really had much of a choice though did ya?

He's taken steps in that direction. He's allowed the Federal government to fund religious charities even if they don't show themselves to be effective and discriminate in hiring based on religious grounds.

Providing funding for religious-based programs is not the same as instituting programs that require a specific religion of all citizens. Just because Bush provides funding to programs that teach abstinence is not the does not mean that he believes all Americans must become Christians either.

As who a religious organization hires is the business of the religious organization. The Supreme Courts observance of the so-called "Separation of Church and State", basically keeps the government from mandating how a Religious Institution can choose their employees so that shouldn't be a factor in funding. And if effectiveness was a factor in funding the money would never get spend because no program is 100% guarenteed.

What evidence is there that a Mormon would put religion before country?

There is none, but then does there need to be evidence to create a fear of such among potential voters? That is the beauty of fear, there doesn't need to be proof.

I don't believe you. ;)

Believing in Xenu isn't all that much weirder than believing in a guy rising from the dead and ascending into heaven.

Providing funding for religious-based programs is not the same as instituting programs that require a specific religion of all citizens. Just because Bush provides funding to programs that teach abstinence is not the does not mean that he believes all Americans must become Christians either.

As who a religious organization hires is the business of the religious organization. The Supreme Courts observance of the so-called "Separation of Church and State", basically keeps the government from mandating how a Religious Institution can choose their employees so that shouldn't be a factor in funding. And if effectiveness was a factor in funding the money would never get spend because no program is 100% guarenteed.



There is none, but then does there need to be evidence to create a fear of such among potential voters? That is the beauty of fear, there doesn't need to be proof.

Providing funding for religious based programs and allowing federal funds, tax dollars, to discriminate in hiring based on faith seem to be violations of the establishment clause to me. It's basically using the federal government's money to promote religious belief. Not to mention the fact that people going to get help with a drug problem or getting some food to help their family through a rough time are now likely to be exposed to proselytizing on the government's dime.

would you vote for a scientologist?
I think that would count as starting the Apocalypse.

because some evangelicals see Mormonism as a cult.

would you vote for a scientologist?

i wouldnt vote for a scientologist.

would you vote for a mormon if he agreed with you on the major issues?

i wouldnt vote for a scientologist.

would you vote for a person if he agreed with you on the major issues?Of course I would. Narrowing the category of person down, such as mormon in the original, won't change the answer either.

i wouldnt vote for a scientologist.

would you vote for a mormon if he agreed with you on the major issues?

I already did last year. I would do it again. I am just saying that there are people I know who wouldn't because they can't see past it.

Well, maybe I'm the wacko...

*waits for the laughter to die down*

...but I would be more likely to vote for someone who were ethical enough to serve the will of the people honestly even if his personal views didn't match mine than I would for someone who matched my political or spiritual ideology well but couldn't be trusted further than I could spit a wharf rat.

Unfortunately, they never win. :(

i wouldnt vote for a scientologist.

would you vote for a mormon if he agreed with you on the major issues?

If Mitt Romney is the epitome of Mormons than there would be no way.

Why is the candidate's religion so damn important? I'd think his position on key issues and his overall composure should be taken into account.

Does the person have a solid grasp of what is relevant?
Does the person have the confidence to lead America in the right direction?
Does the person know what it takes to keep democracy alive?

Basing votes on religion is just retarded and so... it's such an outdated concept.

That they aren't. ;)

Hilarious.:)

Even atheists are convinced that any religious person won't be able to keep his (or her) religion out of their decisionmaking.

Wrong. We're convinced that some religious people won't be able to keep their religion out of their decision making. Clinton claimed to be religious, and we didn't seem to have great problems with him. Carter was an evangelical, and we didn't have trouble with him. But please, don't let us stop you from making gross overgeneralizations about what a tiny minority of American voters feel about all religious people who run for office.

Wrong. We're convinced that some religious people won't be able to keep their religion out of their decision making. Clinton claimed to be religious, and we didn't seem to have great problems with him. Carter was an evangelical, and we didn't have trouble with him. But please, don't let us stop you from making gross overgeneralizations about what a tiny minority of American voters feel about all religious people who run for office.

Like Carter can keep his Baptist roots from making him a flaming antisemite...

I may end up voting for *NSFW* this candidate ('http://www.nee-antwerpen.be/index-eng.htm')

*Which* religion someone follows pales in comparison to how religious they are. It's much more likely that I'd vote for someone mildly scientologist/mormon/pastafarian/whatever than an extremist of ANY religion.

Because the majority of Americans want someone that believes in a higher power than themselves and the rest of humanity. The majority of Americans want a President that is spiritual, and as such has faith and religion.

You can be spiritual without believing in one specific God.

I may end up voting for this candidate ('http://www.nee-antwerpen.be/index-eng.htm')

God damnit. Put up a NSFW tag the next time you do something like that, you jerk.