NationStates Jolt Archive

Medical Malpractice: Putting A Price On Life.

In a shocking report, more people die from medical mistakes each year than from highway accidents, breast cancer or AIDS. And in California, a little known law puts a price tag on what the state says your life is worth. Now, a Simi Valley family blames a local hospital's errors for robbing their daughter of her young and innocent life.

"She died in my arms," Jodi Gonzalez said. "The doc kept coming over and putting the stethoscope to her heart. 'Why do you keep doing that?' She said, 'The heart is still beating and we have to record the time of death.' See, she didn't want to die."

In the very same UCLA hospital Delaney Lucille Gonzalez was born in, just 16 months later, the toddler would die in.

"The next thing you are at the mortuary, you are picking out little coffins for your daughter… little coffins for your daughter," said Delaney's father Daniel Gonzalez.

Delaney was with Treacher Collins Syndrome, a rare disorder that causes physical abnormalities of the head and face.

The Gonzalez family never treated their bouncing baby girl, they lovingly nicknamed "Laney the ladybug," any different.

"Mentally she was all there, mental she was perfect," Daniel said.

"She was going to be beautiful and to me she was," Jodi said.

Always jovial and dressed in special head bands that her mother hand-made to keep her hearing aids in place.

When she was old enough, the Simi Valley family checked Delaney in to UCLA for a routine 90-minute surgery to repair the child's cleft palate.

"She couldn't say Da-Da cause you have to put your tongue on the roof of your mouth," Daniel said. "That is what we were looking forward to is she could say Da-Da for the first time."

Little Laney the ladybug would never get the chance to say Da-Da.

"I heard a code blue and I knew it was her, I knew it," Jodi said.

According to medical and autopsy reports, Delaney's breathing tube was misplaced, slowly suffocating the child as air pumped into her stomach rather than her lungs.

"I said, 'You need to save her,' and he said, 'I will,'" Jodi said.

Next, a series of critical errors.

California State Health inspectors report the radiology department waited hours before reviewing chest x-rays that would have shown the deadly mistake. Also, a staff member shut off oxygen sensors that Jodi believes could have saved her little Laney's life.

"Finally she shut it off," Jodi said. "She thought something was wrong with it. Well, it turned out it was telling her Laney wasn't getting enough oxygen."

The Gonzalezes prayed for a miracle, but doctors pronounced their precious girl brain dead...

"Clearly it says on her birth certificate she died from their mistake... I blame the whole hospital," Jodi said.

To ensure the hospital is held accountable and that this deadly mistake would never happen again, Laney's parents set out to sue. But they were shocked to find the state of California already put a price tag of $250,000 on their little girl's life.

"Basically you are telling me my beautiful 16-month-old daughter, who had her whole life ahead of her, who never danced with her daddy… Is worth $250,000. That is all her life is worth?" Jodi said.

There is a little known law in California called MICRA -- The Medical Injury Compensation Act.

"MICRA is a four letter word in disguise I think," said attorney Gerald Agnew.

Trial attorneys insist this law that was put on the books back in 1975 is insurance companies and doctors dirty little secret.

"I have to believe if the general public knew about MICRA, it wouldn't exist," said attorney and doctor Russell Kussman M.D.

The malpractice cap even overrides the decision of a jury.

"A jury can come back with a verdict, a fair and reasonable compensation… and the judge will reduce that to $250,000," Agnew said.

No amount of money will ever bring Laney back, but this family is dedicated in keeping her spirit alive.

"There's got to be a change to it," Daniel said.

"She's worth nothing... Nothing," Jodi said.

Economists surmise that cap of $250,000 would be worth about a $1 million today, yet the law remains unchanged.

In a statement from UCLA, they say the medical center is saddened by Delaney's death and are committed to patient safety and quality of care continues to be the hospitals number one priority.

http://cbs2.com/topstories/local_story_131144133.html

This is really sad and I feel for the parents, I really do, if that cap wasn't there, then the parents would, and should clean out the hospital, there's just no excusing this error, I mean god they are susspose to be professional and yet they couldn't even put in a simple breathing tube? Like I said, if MICRA wasn't there, then the parents would, and should clean the hospital out.

Hospitals are a bad place to be, no matter how minor your illness is. Almost anything can give you an infection there, and nurses are usually so ham-handed, you wind up with pinched nerves when they move you..

"MICRA is a four letter word in disguise I think," said attorney Gerald Agnew.

Actually, it's a five letter word, idiot.

Anyway, what good will suing do? Is the hospital going to perform better and save more lives if it has less money to work with? This mother is incredibly selfish; she is trying to profit off the death of her child and, in the process, flagrantly and recklessly risking the lives of other patients. This is what happens when you give a young girl cosmetic surgery; shame on the mother.

Actually, it's a five letter word, idiot.

Anyway, what good will suing do? Is the hospital going to perform better and save more lives if it has less money to work with? This mother is incredibly selfish; she is trying to profit off the death of her child and, in the process, flagrantly and recklessly risking the lives of other patients. This is what happens when you give a young girl cosmetic surgery; shame on the mother.

She was giving her jaw surgery so that the child could speak better, and also look more normal, I don't see anything wrong with that. Doctors and Nurses are susspose to be 'good' at what they do, but if they can't even place a simple breathing tube in the right area, then they deserved to be strip of their titles and cleaned out by the parents, that goes the same for the radiologist and the nurse that screwed up.

Actually, it's a five letter word, idiot.


That's the disguise.. I think.

Actually, it's a five letter word, idiot.

Anyway, what good will suing do? Is the hospital going to perform better and save more lives if it has less money to work with? This mother is incredibly selfish; she is trying to profit off the death of her child and, in the process, flagrantly and recklessly risking the lives of other patients. This is what happens when you give a young girl cosmetic surgery; shame on the mother.
She still has hospital bills to pay. And cosmetic surgery? Bullshit. Do you even know what you are talking about, you know what? Never mind, of course you don't.

She was giving her jaw surgery so that the child could speak better, and also look more normal, I don't see anything wrong with that. Doctors and Nurses are susspose to be 'good' at what they do, but if they can't even place a simple breathing tube in the right area, then they deserved to be strip of their titles and cleaned out by the parents, that goes the same for the radiologist and the nurse that screwed up.

I agree that what happened was terribly wrong, and the hospital, doctors, radiologist and nurse should pay, but most hospitals, especially in California, are not making a profit to begin with. And sueing the hospital doesn't benefit anyone, except the Daylanie's parent. It won't bring her back, and would force the hospital to cut costs, which could put other patients in danger.

I agree that every one should pay something, especially the nurse that inserted the breathing tube. If fact, she probable will end up loosing her nursing license. That is the way the parents should be handling this situation. Take steps to prevent this sort of thing from happening to others, by attempting to prevent those that caused the problem, namely the radiologist, the nurse(s), and the doctors. Don't attempt to gain monetary advantages from the daughter's death, but protect other patients from those that caused them harm.

http://cbs2.com/topstories/local_story_131144133.html

This is really sad and I feel for the parents, I really do, if that cap wasn't there, then the parents would, and should clean out the hospital, there's just no excusing this error, I mean god they are susspose to be professional and yet they couldn't even put in a simple breathing tube? Like I said, if MICRA wasn't there, then the parents would, and should clean the hospital out.

sad... but cleaning out the hosptial is wrong.

I wonder if our state has that MICRA thing...

Actually, it's a five letter word, idiot.

Anyway, what good will suing do? Is the hospital going to perform better and save more lives if it has less money to work with? This mother is incredibly selfish; she is trying to profit off the death of her child and, in the process, flagrantly and recklessly risking the lives of other patients. This is what happens when you give a young girl cosmetic surgery; shame on the mother.

you used to be remotely clever back when you were MTAE. Now it's just too over the top to be believable.

It's like watching a circus clown do paperwork. No matter how much he tries to look normal, it's still obvious he's a fucking clown.

sad... but cleaning out the hosptial is wrong.

you do realize that every hospital is required by law to carry malpractice insurance?

you do realize that every hospital is required by law to carry malpractice insurance?

considering I work in one. yes.

but the cleaning out comment was to the OP about suing them for all their worth.

also did you know that the premiums for that insurance goes up? Hawaii's hosptial's premimums went up about four-fold in one year. dunno what it's like for other hospitals...

you do realize that every hospital is required by law to carry malpractice insurance?

And this lawsuit, whether is was $100,000 or $1,000,000 would raise the hospital's premiums, and cause it to find ways to cut costs in order to afford those premiums.

Insurance, or not, the better way to handle this would not be to sue for money, but to take each and every person involved in the procedure to the State Medical Board and demand their license to practice. It should not be about the money, but about protecting the lives of their patients.

And this lawsuit, whether is was $100,000 or $1,000,000 would raise the hospital's premiums, and cause it to find ways to cut costs in order to afford those premiums.

Of course, but that still would not result in equivalent payments. Which is to say, that the hospital would not end up paying the full value of the verdict.

Insurance, or not, the better way to handle this would not be to sue for money, but to take each and every person involved in the procedure to the State Medical Board and demand their license to practice. It should not be about the money, but about protecting the lives of their patients.

both should be done. Medical malpractice suits exist for a reason. Incompetance took her life and ruined their family. They were negligent.

I think the problem isn't just the MICRA (although a cap that doesn't adjust for inflation is as dumb as the AMT), it's the fact that medical malpractice in general is out of control and that it forces laws like this on to the books which end up hurting people who are genuinely victims of malpractice. If California didn't have this law, it would be a lot worse. I think the only way to prevent things like this from happening is to overhaul the system by which these cases are determined and preventing greedy trial lawyers from capitalizing on these situations for their own benefit.

If almost of the money went directly to the victims, I think we would not have problems like this. This system is badly flawed, and it needs a lot of change to prevent things like this from happening.

It isn't sad, it's fucking disqusting, and it helps me confirm my hatred of medical facilities.

They scare the shit out of me.

Actually, it's a five letter word, idiot.

I think you are mistaken on who the idiot is here. But I can give you a list of some the four letter words talked about if you really need them.

It isn't sad, it's fucking disqusting, and it helps me confirm my hatred of medical facilities.

They scare the shit out of me.

in defence of my medical facility... it really depends on the facility and staff. ;)

JuNii, since you seem to be more familiar with this than others, what's to prevent criminal negligent homocide charges from being brought against the person who intubated the child incorrectly?

While it does sound horrible - especially when you say something like, "This is the price tag on this girl's life," families like this one are not the most hurt by arbitrary caps on malpractice and personal injury lawsuits. The people who are really hurt by this are the people who need money - and lots of it - to pay for medical care for the injuries they've sustained. Depending on how bad a case is, a person may need lifelong medical care, and that doesn't come cheap. Arbitrary monetary caps keep those people from getting the kind of settlements they truly need to fund such medical care.

Meanwhile, I don't agree with the lynch mob here, either. Yes, medical professionals have to be held accountable for the mistakes they make. But they are human, and they are going to make mistakes. This is something that people need to realize - doctors, nurses, etc. are not superhuman. Luckily, most mistakes get caught, either by someone else or by the person who made them, and corrected. Some do not. This is true in just about any profession. The difference in the medical profession is the risk involved - and so people expect those in that profession to be perfect. It is an unreasonable expectation.

While it does sound horrible - especially when you say something like, "This is the price tag on this girl's life," families like this one are not the most hurt by arbitrary caps on malpractice and personal injury lawsuits. The people who are really hurt by this are the people who need money - and lots of it - to pay for medical care for the injuries they've sustained. Depending on how bad a case is, a person may need lifelong medical care, and that doesn't come cheap. Arbitrary monetary caps keep those people from getting the kind of settlements they truly need to fund such medical care.

I have an idea. Why not make it so that in the event of malpractice that costs the life of the patient, the hospital (or better yet, the doctors/nurses involved) bears the full cost of the medical bills.

Then strip them of their licenses.

Double whammies like that will really keep medical staff paying attention where they should.

Meanwhile, I don't agree with the lynch mob here, either. Yes, medical professionals have to be held accountable for the mistakes they make. But they are human, and they are going to make mistakes. This is something that people need to realize - doctors, nurses, etc. are not superhuman. Luckily, most mistakes get caught, either by someone else or by the person who made them, and corrected. Some do not. This is true in just about any profession. The difference in the medical profession is the risk involved - and so people expect those in that profession to be perfect. It is an unreasonable expectation.

I agree completely. Mistakes are inevitable in any career, even instituting capital punishment for them wont not stop them. There is both a doctor and hospital shortage in the states. We gain nothing by putting more stress on them by tossing out ridiculously tough sentences for human error.

I have an idea. Why not make it so that in the event of malpractice that costs the life of the patient, the hospital (or better yet, the doctors/nurses involved) bears the full cost of the medical bills.

Then strip them of their licenses.

Double whammies like that will really keep medical staff paying attention where they should.

Once again, this expectation of perfection - or your life is ruined. I agree that a person's medical bills should be paid in the event of malpractice. In any case of gross - particularly intentional - negligence, the medical license should be lost as well. But if we stripped someone of a license every time they made a mistake, we'd be out of doctors and nurses rather quickly. The expectation of perfection is idiotic.

She was giving her jaw surgery so that the child could speak better, and also look more normal, I don't see anything wrong with that. Doctors and Nurses are susspose to be 'good' at what they do, but if they can't even place a simple breathing tube in the right area, then they deserved to be strip of their titles and cleaned out by the parents, that goes the same for the radiologist and the nurse that screwed up.
So you have placed a breathing tube? You know how simple it is? You know that the esophagus and trachea are directly connected, and it is impossible to tell which one the tube has gone down?

Yes, errors were made. And it is a shame that the child died. But what is more money going to do?

you do realize that every hospital is required by law to carry malpractice insurance?And you realize that malpractice insurance is one of the reasons US medicine costs so much, as well as many of the most qualified doctors leaving their fields?

These laws exist for a reason. If people would stop suing for things that, under skewed circumstances at best, could be called malpractice, these things wouldn't be an issue. But untill then, we have plenty of people willing to sue because their baby was born with CP (clearly, it couldn't have anything to do with their drinking habits or other drug habits...)

Once again, this expectation of perfection - or your life is ruined. I agree that a person's medical bills should be paid in the event of malpractice. In any case of gross - particularly intentional - negligence, the medical license should be lost as well. But if we stripped someone of a license every time they made a mistake, we'd be out of doctors and nurses rather quickly. The expectation of perfection is idiotic.

QFT. And Vetalia makes a good point too.

(I don't live in the States, so we don't have trial by jury, which, by the way, is prone to "trial by emotion". And we have an incredibly slow justice system, which considerably filters the outrageous lawsuits.)

I have an idea. Why not make it so that in the event of malpractice that costs the life of the patient, the hospital (or better yet, the doctors/nurses involved) bears the full cost of the medical bills.

Then strip them of their licenses.

Double whammies like that will really keep medical staff paying attention where they should.
Or drive them out of the field. We're already facing a boarderline shorage of obstetricians. The result will be increased infant mortality. do we really want a shoratge of other specialists?

No, quacks shouldn't be permitted. But accidents happen. The cost is high, yes. But the cost is much lower than the cost of stripping them of their practice in many cases.
Once again, this expectation of perfection - or your life is ruined. I agree that a person's medical bills should be paid in the event of malpractice. In any case of gross - particularly intentional - negligence, the medical license should be lost as well. But if we stripped someone of a license every time they made a mistake, we'd be out of doctors and nurses rather quickly. The expectation of perfection is idiotic.
We are beyond the point of being out of nurses. Amazing, not every ass off the street can do the job. Blame lax standards for many, if not most, of the errors today.

QFT. And Vetalia makes a good point too.

(I don't live in the States, so we don't have trial by jury, which, by the way, is prone to "trial by emotion". And we have an incredibly slow justice system, which considerably filters the outrageous lawsuits.)

I'm of the opinion that malpractice lawsuits should be reviewed by a panel of physicians (names removed, etc.) who can then advise a judge on whether or not it's even worth it to go forward with a case. It would likely cut down on the number of unnecessary lawsuits. (I didn't say frivolous because I do think that many lawsuits that really aren't malpractice are brought because the patient or the patient's family truly believes that something was done wrong. It's that whole assumption of perfection thing - if your family member is injured or dies, it must be that the doctors did something wrong, right?)

JuNii, since you seem to be more familiar with this than others, what's to prevent criminal negligent homocide charges from being brought against the person who intubated the child incorrectly?

... the only thing I can think of is proving that the error was the result of negligence. tho I'll have to ask our hospital legal department to be sure. they won't be in till Monday.

but I think I can work it into an honest conversation and get their opinion...

I'm of the opinion that malpractice lawsuits should be reviewed by a panel of physicians (names removed, etc.) who can then advise a judge on whether or not it's even worth it to go forward with a case. It would likely cut down on the number of unnecessary lawsuits. (I didn't say frivolous because I do think that many lawsuits that really aren't malpractice are brought because the patient or the patient's family truly believes that something was done wrong. It's that whole assumption of perfection thing - if your family member is injured or dies, it must be that the doctors did something wrong, right?)
Most of that I agree with.

the only part I disagree with is the frivolous part. Yes, in many cases, there is atleast a decent question about who is at fault: doctors, or other factors.

But then, there are mothers of CP babies, and similar cases. The mother drinks for 6 months of the pregnancy. The baby isn't FAS, but CP instead. Mom sues because the childs life is ruined. 99% chance it is the mothers fault. Yet, the jury hears that a mothers child is permanently fucked, and will probably die by the time they are 12.

One shot at who wins.


frivolous, and costly.

Most of that I agree with.

the only part I disagree with is the frivolous part. Yes, in many cases, there is atleast a decent question about who is at fault: doctors, or other factors.

But then, there are mothers of CP babies, and similar cases. The mother drinks for 6 months of the pregnancy. The baby isn't FAS, but CP instead. Mom sues because the childs life is ruined. 99% chance it is the mothers fault. Yet, the jury hears that a mothers child is permanently fucked, and will probably die by the time they are 12.

One shot at who wins.

frivolous, and costly.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that there are no actually frivolous lawsuits - there certainly are. I just think that many of the lawsuits that might get labeled as frivolous are really brought by patients or the families of patients who really think - whether it is true or not - that malpractice occurred. And I think there are too many lawyers out there who will accept such cases, rather than telling those trying to bring them that there is no reason to do so.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that there are no actually frivolous lawsuits - there certainly are. I just think that many of the lawsuits that might get labeled as frivolous are really brought by patients or the families of patients who really think - whether it is true or not - that malpractice occurred. And I think there are too many lawyers out there who will accept such cases, rather than telling those trying to bring them that there is no reason to do so.

Yeah. No one wants to take personal responsibility.

In the US currently, if you admit to a doctor that you smoke, they are required to tell you (every time they see you) what the consequences are. If they fail to, they can be sued for malpractice. And guess who wins?

Mind you, I am biased. My dad is a doctor who was sued for malpractice (he won, btw...but none the less). In my opinion, those fucking TV lawyers are the biggest problem with medical treatment in the US.

But if we stripped someone of a license every time they made a mistake, we'd be out of doctors and nurses rather quickly. The expectation of perfection is idiotic.
Depends upon the mistake, a mistake that leads to death... well, I'd be in askance of any doctor or nurse when the cost of that mistake is that high.

I'm of the opinion that malpractice lawsuits should be reviewed by a panel of physicians (names removed, etc.) who can then advise a judge on whether or not it's even worth it to go forward with a case. It would likely cut down on the number of unnecessary lawsuits. (I didn't say frivolous because I do think that many lawsuits that really aren't malpractice are brought because the patient or the patient's family truly believes that something was done wrong. It's that whole assumption of perfection thing - if your family member is injured or dies, it must be that the doctors did something wrong, right?)

Um, perhaps not necessarily. I agree with that assumption of perfection thing, but doctors can still be liable even if they had not even touched the patient.

Scenario: A pancreatectomy (yeah one of the hardest surgeries to do) is scheduled. Suppose the surgical team is composed of the head surgeon, the anesthesiologist, a general surgeon, a medical intern, a nurse, a surgical resident, and perhaps due to his anticipated lack of manpower, the head surgeon borrows another nurse of his in another hospital who had assisted him in several pancreatectomies before. For example, the anesthesiologist had given the wrong dose of anesthesia and caused the patient to stop breathing. Under the "Captain of the Ship" doctrine, the head surgeon is liable, even though the anesthesia is the first to be given, he had not touched the patient, and he isn't that knowledgeable in anesthesiology as his colleague. Now, virtually everybody in the surgical team who would commit mistakes here would make the had surgeon (even though he did not commit the mistake) liable under the same doctrine, and perhaps, even the hospital too, if the family wants more money. The reverse is also true (at least in the US): the nurse is liable for mistakes committed, even though it is the doctor who ordered it.

Also, there are many cases that patients would still die even though the doctor takes care of him/her. Doctors and the medical professions offer treatment, not cure. What might the view be permeating in the public is that "If the doctor didn't cure you, then he's incompetent at the least and we must sue at the worst." Not necessarily.

And also, what has become of "learn from our mistakes"?? Hey, they made a mistake, they must somewhat pay for it, but let us allow them to learn from it. Only when it seems that they wouldn't learn should we revoke their licenses. And cleaning out the doctor and the hospital won't allow them from learning from that mistake.

Depends upon the mistake, a mistake that leads to death... well, I'd be in askance of any doctor or nurse when the cost of that mistake is that high.

Doctors and nurses work in life and death situations. Inevitably, the cost of even a simple mistake can be death. The question is, was it an honest mistake that any doctor or nurse could have made? Or was it a mistake of negligence - one that just about any doctor or nurse can tell you simply should not have happened?

The former is an unfortunate occurrence. The latter is worthy of your distrust (and likely loss of a license). If the former happens a great deal, then it makes sense to revoke someone's license.


Um, perhaps not necessarily.

LOL. I should've used sarcasm tags. It wasn't a serious question. I am well aware that it is very possible for a person to die, be injured, etc. when the health professionals are not at fault.

I agree with that assumption of perfection thing, but doctors can still be liable even if they had not even touched the patient.

...which is ridiculous, unless the doctor in question was meant to be supervising interns or residents who made the mistake.

That's pathetic. I, with no medical experience, am fairly confident I could fit a breathing tube properly. That hospital should be completely restaffed.

That's pathetic. I, with no medical experience, am fairly confident I could fit a breathing tube properly. That hospital should be completely restaffed.

Uh huh. And I, without any training, am confident I could fly a Boeing 7E7 across the Atlantic. After all, if trained professionals can do it with relatively few errors, clearly any person can do it.

I'm also confident that I could design a structurally sound home. And maybe even diagnose cancer. Hell, I'm almost positive I could open a psych practice and treat every patient who came through my door.

Doesn't mean I actually could.



Talking out of your ass is very easy. Just because it SOUNDS simple doesn't mean it IS simple.

Tell me, what is the difference between the esophagus and trachea? A centemeter? In a newborn, maybe less? Does it feel different? Or maybe you can see into their chest? And since when do plastic tubes show up on xray, and since when do they take xrays during surgery?

Sorry, no.

LOL. I should've used sarcasm tags. It wasn't a serious question. I am well aware that it is very possible for a person to die, be injured, etc. when the health professionals are not at fault.
I suck at detecting those things. I am exceptionally thick, and the densest person since osmium.

...which is ridiculous, unless the doctor in question was meant to be supervising interns or residents who made the mistake.
Ridiculous, maybe; true, yes.

That's pathetic. I, with no medical experience, am fairly confident I could fit a breathing tube properly. That hospital should be completely restaffed.
I would suppose you know 1.) how to use a laryngoscope; 2.) whether the tube is far enough in; 3.) whether it is in the trachea or esophagus; 4.) how to take care of that mammalian gag reflex; 5.) how not to injure the sensitive mucosa; 6.) how to clear the mucus secretions; 7.) how not to injure the teeth and lips; 8.) that you should not even touch the vocal cords; and 9.) how to do it in very special cases like Treacher-Collins that involves severe facial and skull deformities.

I would suppose you know 1.) how to use a laryngoscope; 2.) whether the tube is far enough in; 3.) whether it is in the trachea or esophagus; 4.) how to take care of that mammalian gag reflex; 5.) how not to injure the sensitive mucosa; 6.) how to clear the mucus secretions; 7.) how not to injure the teeth and lips; 8.) that you should not even touch the vocal cords; and 9.) how to do it in very special cases like Treacher-Collins that involves severe facial and skull deformities.

When you get a minute, could you change that quote tag? It currently looks like I said that - and it was actually The Potato Factory.

I would suppose you know 1.) how to use a laryngoscope; 2.) whether the tube is far enough in; 3.) whether it is in the trachea or esophagus; 4.) how to take care of that mammalian gag reflex; 5.) how not to injure the sensitive mucosa; 6.) how to clear the mucus secretions; 7.) how not to injure the teeth and lips; 8.) that you should not even touch the vocal cords; and 9.) how to do it in very special cases like Treacher-Collins that involves severe facial and skull deformities.

Wait, you mean to tell me that doctors get special training to do that kinda shit? You must be joking.

When you get a minute, could you change that quote tag? It currently looks like I said that - and it was actually The Potato Factory.
Oops. Sorry. *feels sheepish*

Wait, you mean to tell me that doctors get special training to do that kinda shit? You must be joking.
No, we don't. No special training; but training yes.

It sounds so special, but I just pointed out some of the things that should be done when doing the procedure. I don't recommend somebody without training to do it. I mean, if The Potato Factory wants to do them, then he must get some training of sorts in inserting tubes so the chances of him (or is it her? dang, I suck at guessing the sex of posters here) making mistakes. But even with training, mistakes do happen.

Doctors and nurses work in life and death situations. Inevitably, the cost of even a simple mistake can be death. The question is, was it an honest mistake that any doctor or nurse could have made? Or was it a mistake of negligence - one that just about any doctor or nurse can tell you simply should not have happened?

The former is an unfortunate occurrence. The latter is worthy of your distrust (and likely loss of a license). If the former happens a great deal, then it makes sense to revoke someone's license.
In a case such as this though, the team should have been double checking and triple checking and not switching off alarms just because they think they are on the blitz. Yeah, it's a high standard, but they should be held to high standards.

Once again, this expectation of perfection - or your life is ruined. I agree that a person's medical bills should be paid in the event of malpractice. In any case of gross - particularly intentional - negligence, the medical license should be lost as well. But if we stripped someone of a license every time they made a mistake, we'd be out of doctors and nurses rather quickly. The expectation of perfection is idiotic.

I did say malpractice leading to death. If it's something lesser, footing the bill would certainly suffice.

But since you add the caveat of gross negligence, which of this is the case, I believe that it would still be an effective measure.

Also, you added on a later safeguard, a panel of anonymous (but qualified) physicians who will be able to determine whether there is a real case of negligence or not.

Actually, it's a five letter word, idiot.

Anyway, what good will suing do? Is the hospital going to perform better and save more lives if it has less money to work with? This mother is incredibly selfish; she is trying to profit off the death of her child and, in the process, flagrantly and recklessly risking the lives of other patients. This is what happens when you give a young girl cosmetic surgery; shame on the mother.

Yeah. There shouldn't be significant consequences to killing people. If it was an accident, then the killer is going to feel bad. Taking their money is just going to make them feel worse.

If they did it on purpose, then punishing them is just going to make them angry, and they'll want to kill a whole bunch of other people.

Yup. The real villain here is the surviving family of homicide victims. Yup, can't think of anyone else to blame. No one at all.

sad... but cleaning out the hosptial is wrong.

I wonder if our state has that MICRA thing...

No it isn't. If I kill someone due to gross negligence then I will loose my livelihood by getting sent to prison. And enormous amounts of political lobbying have gone into getting corporations treated like people.

But with this MIRCA thing, the parents should just focus their efforts on getting the nurse, doctor, and management locked up. Pretty soon they'll be begging to pay more than 250,000

Try the British National Health Service. All our hospitals are infected with this bug called MRSA. You have a rutine operation for something small and then you catch this flesh eating horrer! And it spreads because the hospital managers worked out that it is cheaper NOT to wash the wards with disinfectant! And now they want to start reusing the sheets! Any stains and they just turn them over to show the "clean" side!:eek:

Thats a case of extreme medical malpractice and one of the few times I agree to a lawsuit for any reason. Amistake like that is worth more than $250,000. but the real question that shouldbe asked is why the fuck didn't they attempt to do anything about the mistake the minute they were suspicious?

In a case such as this though, the team should have been double checking and triple checking and not switching off alarms just because they think they are on the blitz. Yeah, it's a high standard, but they should be held to high standards.

Oh, I don't disagree that this sounds like pretty gross negligence. I was talking more generally.