NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you believe lying is a sin (or if you don't like the idea of "sinning", is it morrally correct)? If so, then how much? How often is it justifiable?

These and other questions concering truth form this thread's subject.

Do you believe lying is a sin? If so, then how much? How often is it justifiable?

These and other questions concering truth form this thread's subject.

I don't believe in the concept of sin, so no, no I don't.

I think lying is sometimes justifiable. Whether that has any impact on whether it's a sin or not is another matter. I'm not quite sure what 'sin' is.

Though it's not in the ten commandments not to lie, i think it probably is a sin.
As for how often it's justifiable, ill answer that question with a question.
When is it [I]ever[I/]justifiable? Forget often, EVER?

Although again it may depend what you're lying about. I mean in the bible, Peter lied that he didn't know Jesus and denied it 3 times, but that was also one thing Jesus told him he would. So I'm not really sure if lying's a sin, it probably depends what you're lying about.

Do you believe lying is a sin? If so, then how much? How often is it justifiable?

These and other questions concering truth form this thread's subject.

Justifiable? Sure, everything is, if only be virtue of the fact that it exists.

Right? I don't believe so. Others disagree.

Do I? Of course. Does that make me a hypocrite? Yes. Is lying a sin? yes.

Do you believe lying is a sin? If so, then how much? How often is it justifiable?

One of the Ten Commandments. I'd say it was a sin.

These and other questions concering truth form this thread's subject.

...Then you should probably put them in the OP. You know, so we can answer them.

Do you believe lying is a sin? If so, then how much? How often is it justifiable?

These and other questions concering truth form this thread's subject.

Sin a contravention of divine law. Divinity does not exist, therefore sin does not exist.

You canonly sin if you go against your gods, since I don't have any, I can't sin.

Though it's not in the ten commandments not to lie, i think it probably is a sin.


Er...yes, yes it is.

Er...yes, yes it is.
Is it?

Exodus 34:

10 Then the LORD said: "I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the LORD, will do for you. 11 Obey what I command you today. I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 12 Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. 13 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles. [a] 14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

15 "Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. 16 And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.

17 "Do not make cast idols.

18 "Celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in that month you came out of Egypt.

19 "The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons.
"No one is to appear before me empty-handed.

21 "Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

22 "Celebrate the Feast of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the turn of the year. [b] 23 Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign LORD, the God of Israel. 24 I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times each year to appear before the LORD your God.

25 "Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Feast remain until morning.

26 "Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the LORD your God.
"Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk."

Er...yes, yes it is.

"Bearing walse witness AGAINST they neighbor" does not for certain constitute lying.

I am the Lord your God 1 1 1 -
Thou shall have no other gods before me 2 1
Thou shall not make for yourself an idol 2 2
Thou shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God 3 3 2 3
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy 4 4 3 4
Honor your parents 5 5 4 5
Thou shall not murder 6 6 5 6
Thou shall not commit adultery 7 7 6 7
Thou shall not steal 8 8 7 8
Thou shall not bear false witness 9 9 8 9
Thou shall not covet your neighbour's wife 10 10 9 10
Thou shall not covet your neighbour's house

NOPE not in there, sorry...Am i?

As for how often it's justifiable, ill answer that question with a question.
When is it [I]ever[I/]justifiable? Forget often, EVER?Saving someone's life? Frustrating evil intent in general?
Although in some cases, arguably, you can just refuse to answer (and in rare cases get shot or tortured for it). I think that people that can't find a situation where lying is justifiable lack imagination and historic understanding.

define sin.

Saving someone's life? Frustrating evil intend in general?
Although in some cases, arguably, you can just refuse to answer (and in rare cases get shot or tortured for it). I think that people that can't find a sistuation where lying is justifiable lack imagination and historic understanding.

I tend to agree with this view.

Thus my point about Peter in the bible. I shoulda gotten rid of that comment...

I think it's understandable in some cases. Many people believe it's a sin in any circumstance because of the bible, but a more accurate translation of what what the bible says is "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbour", so lying in order to incriminate an innocent person is wrong in my eyes, and in everyday life it should be avoided, but in extreme circumstances, sure, why not.

define sin.

In this case, something which you find morally abhorant.

I am the Lord your God 1 1 1 -
Thou shall have no other gods before me 2 1
Thou shall not make for yourself an idol 2 2
Thou shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God 3 3 2 3
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy 4 4 3 4
Honor your parents 5 5 4 5
Thou shall not murder 6 6 5 6
Thou shall not commit adultery 7 7 6 7
Thou shall not steal 8 8 7 8
Thou shall not bear false witness 9 9 8 9
Thou shall not covet your neighbour's wife 10 10 9 10
Thou shall not covet your neighbour's house

NOPE not in there, sorry...Am i?Those are not the commandments given to the Israelites. This version was destroyed and did not make it into law.

If Jesus truly died for our sins, isn't it ungrateful of us, to not commit them?

If Jesus truly died for our sins, isn't it ungrateful of us, to not commit them?

Somebody MUST have siged this by now!

Somebody MUST have siged this by now!

I'm still debating whether or not I want to.

If Jesus truly died for our sins, isn't it ungrateful of us, to not commit them?

According to the bible, we all do at some point in our lives.

Yes, generally speaking.

But there are lots of exceptions, even in circumstances that are rather innocuous. Generally speaking, if the lie is to protect yourself from an unjust consequence, or if the lie is made for a reason that the person being lied to would accept (or at least should accept) as legitimate, it is morally acceptable.

Yes, generally speaking.

But there are lots of exceptions, even in circumstances that are rather innocuous. Generally speaking, if the lie is to protect yourself from an unjust consequence, or if the lie is made for a reason that the person being lied to would accept (or at least should accept) as legitimate, it is morally acceptable.

Yup.

Do you believe lying is a sin (or if you don't like the idea of "sinning", is it morrally correct)? If so, then how much? How often is it justifiable?

These and other questions concering truth form this thread's subject.

Thou shalt not bear false witness.
In other words, you are not to state that you saw something you did not see.
More generally, it's saying don't say falsehoods.

If you believe in the concept of sin, and believe in the Judeo/Christian religious texts as being a guideline for avoiding sin, then lying is a sin.

Lying?

No? No?

Then why the fuxk y'all be eatin' from that tree?

??? ?!?

You're OUT!


I've learned not to lie when it comes ot feelings, necessary truths (according to yoru own, develepoved sytsem of rules and morlsa), historically stabeblished facts (and suhc) - and when mah gut-feeling (whereÄs mah biucketz=?) tells me so°!

I think that lying is always wrong, but sometimes there are mitigating circumstances.

I am the Lord your God 1 1 1 -
Thou shall have no other gods before me 2 1
Thou shall not make for yourself an idol 2 2
Thou shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God 3 3 2 3
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy 4 4 3 4
Honor your parents 5 5 4 5
Thou shall not murder 6 6 5 6
Thou shall not commit adultery 7 7 6 7
Thou shall not steal 8 8 7 8
Thou shall not bear false witness 9 9 8 9
Thou shall not covet your neighbour's wife 10 10 9 10
Thou shall not covet your neighbour's house

NOPE not in there, sorry...Am i?

The Catechism says:

ARTICLE 8
THE EIGHTH COMMANDMENT

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.252

It was said to the men of old, "You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn."253

2464 The eighth commandment forbids misrepresenting the truth in our relations with others. This moral prescription flows from the vocation of the holy people to bear witness to their God who is the truth and wills the truth. Offenses against the truth express by word or deed a refusal to commit oneself to moral uprightness: they are fundamental infidelities to God and, in this sense, they undermine the foundations of the covenant.

http://www.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a8.htm

I'm a big fan of honesty. I'd say that lying is always a bad thing to do, but sometimes it's the best of one's available options. (So, for example, if someone held a gun to my friend's head and said, "Tell me that your favorite color is orange, or I blow your friend's brains out," I am freaking well going to tell them that orange is my favorite color, even though it isn't. Honesty isn't that important.)

Though it's not in the ten commandments not to lie, i think it probably is a sin.
As for how often it's justifiable, ill answer that question with a question.
When is it everjustifiable? Forget often, EVER?

Some believe it is justifiable to lie if telling the truth serves no real purpose and causes harm. Like telling an 80 year old widow that her husband had not been as faithful as she thought and that her whole marriage was in fact a sham.

Others believe it is fully justifiable to lie - or at least bend the truth a little - if it serves a higher purpose. For example, creationists and intelligent design proponents are seldomn completely honest about the theory of evolution and the (lack of) evidence in favour of their own beliefs, but since they expect to convince people of the glory of God, thereby saving their souls, that is ok in their eyes. Politicians, secret services and Fox news also like this reasoning a lot.

I personally believe that lying for the purpose stated in option 2 is never justifiable. People should be allowed to make a choice based on honest information.

I don't believe in the concept of sin, so no, no I don't.

What to you, is sin?

To me, and others of Ibrahimic faiths, believe that sin is deliberate disobedience of Allah;s(God) will.

Do you believe lying is a sin (or if you don't like the idea of "sinning", is it morrally correct)? If so, then how much? How often is it justifiable?

These and other questions concering truth form this thread's subject.

"Honesty is the best policy."

Ok, cliches aside, truth is best because it's easier to remember than all the lies.

That being said, when proud new mama (or papa) demands that you praise her newborn prince(ss) for her/his ravishing beauty and the little horror looks like a cross between Winston Churchill and Eleanor Roosevelt, smells like a diaper pail that's been doused with sour milk and sounds like 20,000 fingernails being pulled across a chalkboard, lie. Tell mama her spawn is adorable - you won't like the consequences otherwise.

When your wife asks if the dress makes her look fat, tell her that the dress looks perfect and it looks perfect because of her.

Rules of thumb for lying:

She does not look fat
All babies are cute
All puppies/kittens are adorable
He/She is a wonderful cook

One would have to believe in sin, to acknowledge sinning.

To misquote a paradox: "Yes, I believe lying is a sin". ;)

Courteousy lies are not real lies since everyone are aware of that those phrases are used just to be polite, not because you actually mean it. In fact it would be rude not to go along with "Hey, how are you? (I don't really care.)", "Fine, thanks. (I'm having a bad day but know better then to trouble you with all my problems.)" and the other couteousy lies.

Real lies that are meant to mislead others are expensive for your credability. If they find out the truth they will be less likely to trust you next time. That is bad since sometimes your word is the only thing you can give them. Never lie unless you are willing to pay the price in credability loss if the truth would be revealed.



As for the commandment "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbour.". Back then they could not use video, dna, fingerprints or other evidence. Witness testimonies where usually the only evidence available. So if you wanted to get someone executed all you had to do was to find an unsolved crime, then gather up witnesses to say that they did it.

Since false testimony was all it took to get an innocent person convicted it was often seen as a very serious crime. So much that in some places if you failed to prove that your accusation was true you would suffer the punishment for the crime you accused them of. That is what the commandment is about, false testimony to get an innocent person convicted. Not lieing in general.

What to you, is sin?

To me, and others of Ibrahimic faiths, believe that sin is deliberate disobedience of Allah;s(God) will.

There is no analogous concept in Hinduism. There are plenty of actions that are an affront to the gods in Hinduism, but as the gods are not the arbiters of what is good and what is evil, offending them is not sinning.

I guess the closest thing to sinning in Hinduism is doing something contrary to your dharma. But that's still not sin in any real comparison to the original word, as its something you can correct through action, rather than through the seeking of forgiveness, by righting the wrong.

Though I should admit that while a lot of my personal ethics stem from Hindu philosophy, I'm no longer a Hindu and have not been for some time. And there certainly is no analogous concept of agnostic atheist thought.

Nah.

Lying is an ART! :D

(An... Art Vandelay?)

He/She is a wonderful cook

I hate lies like that. If you don't tell me you thought my cookery was a plate-full of steaming donkey droppings, how do I know to improve? How do I know that you didn't like it and not to make it for you again?
You tell me and, yes, I might be disappointed, but I'll know and will try and fix the problems. You don't tell me, and I find out later, and I'll be much more upset. And in the meantime I'll be feeding you donkey droppings.

I also loathe the way that job interviews are basically exercises in lying.
"So, why do you want to work for us?"
"You were advertising the job, so I applied to you. If the guys over the road had advertised it, I'd've applied to them instead. If Satan's Evil, Inc. had advertised it, I'd apply to them. Who is not important, just give me money; that's what I work for."
Bzzt, wrong answer.
Cunts.

All liars should be flayed alive and boiled in brine. Starting with the HR drones, and then the politicians.

lying is mean

Whether it's a sin or not, in the Bible I do believe God punished someone for idolising himself through false words...otherwise, lies. I'm not sure, I don't really read that thing...

As far as if it is bad or good, well..it's sometimes a necissary evil and an absolute bad thing I guess.

As far as I go, I lie...not big time...but I'll lie about things to sort of not have to do something at the time, or...I don't know, am I going to burn in hell? Well, if I am...

Sweet :P