NationStates Jolt Archive

A bus company in Edinburgh has sparked anger over rules requiring drivers to ask Muslim women wearing the veil to show their faces.

Religious groups and unions said the rules introduced by Lothian Buses to catch potential fare cheats were unnecessary.

Passengers have been told to lift their veils or produce a passport or driving licence when boarding.

The company said the rules brought them into line with airport security.

The orders were introduced in February in an attempt to stop travellers using other people's passes.

Veiled Ridacard pass holders who refuse a driver's request to show their faces would have to pay for a full fare ticket.

Sohaib Saeed, events co-ordinator at Edinburgh Central Mosque, said: "This seems quite unnecessary. You have to wonder how much of a problem this really is.

"People going to all the trouble of wearing a veil just to dodge a bus fare seems an incredible effort. This rule is intrusive and it's singling people out."

Osama Saeed, from the Muslim Association of Britain in Scotland, said: "In the current climate, I don't think there are many women in Edinburgh wearing a veil, let alone getting on buses to evade fares."
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Full article here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/6621873.stm)

If you're using a non-transferable bus pass with a photo on it then how do you expect to be able to use that pass if your face isn't visible? If you really can't bear to show your face in public then don't buy a photo-pass, just buy a normal ticket.

I wonder how many pubs and cinemas would accept my proof of age card if I insisted on wearing a paper bag on my head at all times...

I do support religious diversity, but I do sometimes wonder exactly what some of these people think a photo pass is actually for. It's not discrimination to ask you to prove who you are, and you can't do that with a veil on.

"People going to all the trouble of wearing a veil just to dodge a bus fare seems an incredible effort"

Yeah, because I also find putting a rag over my head to be such a feat of physical prowess.

"People going to all the trouble of wearing a veil just to dodge a bus fare seems an incredible effort"

Yeah, because I also find putting a rag over my head to be such a feat of physical prowess.

I salute you.

Promote religious diversity and lobby for finger print ID on all public transport....

This is idiotic. They can keep the veil up as long as they show id? How are you going to identify that it's their id and not someone elses?

Seeing the amount of surveillence in the UK, I fully support being able to wear a burkah during everything you do publically.

This is idiotic. They can keep the veil up as long as they show id? How are you going to identify that it's their id and not someone elses?

A barcode on the burkha?

I do support religious diversity, but I do sometimes wonder exactly what some of these people think a photo pass is actually for. It's not discrimination to ask you to prove who you are, and you can't do that with a veil on.
I agree.

A barcode on the burkha?
Don't say that too loud or the British government gets ideas...

it does seem silly. but then i also have to wonder how much of a problem this is. as the man from the mosque said, it is very rare to see a woman wearing a full veil in edinburgh. in fact i could probably count the number i have seen in the four years i've been here on one hand and i used to live just round the corner from the central mosque.

in fact the one time i can remember seeing a fully veiled woman was when i was in the mosque complex itself.

Don't say that too loud or the British government gets ideas...

:eek: :(

*flees*

it does seem silly. but then i also have to wonder how much of a problem this is. as the man from the mosque said, it is very rare to see a woman wearing a full veil in edinburgh. in fact i could probably count the number i have seen in the four years i've been here on one hand and i used to live just round the corner from the central mosque.

in fact the one time i can remember seeing a fully veiled woman was when i was in the mosque complex itself.
The problem is, it only has to happen once of the media to hear about and make a big deal of it - and then everybody thinks it is a major problem.

I don't see how this is an issue of religious tolerance. If you're going to use a photo-ID, you have to have some method of proving you are who you say you are. You can't just expect to be able to say "I've got a veil on for religious reasons," and let that be enough to get you on with a photo-ID pass.
I mean honestly, if a religion exists where you need to go around gloved at all times, should you really be getting a fingerprint ID card?

I don't see how this is an issue of religious tolerance. If you're going to use a photo-ID, you have to have some method of proving you are who you say you are. You can't just expect to be able to say "I've got a veil on for religious reasons," and let that be enough to get you on with a photo-ID pass.
I mean honestly, if a religion exists where you need to go around gloved at all times, should you really be getting a fingerprint ID card?

Mainly because they're generally very lax about the id they accept. From my experience (in Wales rather than Scotland) as long as you're the same gender you can usually get away with it.

I agree. If I had my face hidden and someone wanted to see it to confirm I am who the paper says I am I'd thank them for trying to avoid Terrorism. That whole 9/11 thing scared the crap out of me! So good work Public Transportation people!:)

I agree. If I had my face hidden and someone wanted to see it to confirm I am who the paper says I am I'd thank them for trying to avoid Terrorism. That whole 9/11 thing scared the crap out of me! So good work Public Transportation people!:)

It's not about terrorism, it's just about making sure that people pay for their bus fare.

Try and look at it from a muslim womans point of view tho. In their culture then only whores would show their face.

How would you feel if whenever you showed your bus pass you had to show your genitalia? Because thats how they feel about being asked to show their faces.

Its simply embarrassing and unnesisary. Anyway, full veiling (and if they had their faces covered it would be full veiling) is rather expensive, and you wouldnt just buy it to get money off bus fairs.

Try and look at it from a muslim womans point of view tho. In their culture then only whores would show their face.

How would you feel if whenever you showed your bus pass you had to show your genitalia? Because thats how they feel about being asked to show their faces.

Its simply embarrassing and unnesisary. Anyway, full veiling (and if they had their faces covered it would be full veiling) is rather expensive, and you wouldnt just buy it to get money off bus fairs.

If I had to show my genetalia to use my bus pass then I wouldn't buy a bus pass, I'd buy a normal ticket and avoid having to uncover anything. Simple huh?

Besides, while I don't think that anyone's going to wear a veil purely to dodge bus fares, I don't see it as at all unlikely that somebody's who's wearing a veil anyway would take the opportunity to dodge fares. In my area, bus passes don't even have photos on and people frequently lend them to friends or family even though they're theoretically non-transferable.

Would you let somebody wearing a balaclava into an eighteen rated film or serve them in a pub if you couldn't check their face against their ID?