NationStates Jolt Archive

Touch screen voting is dead in Florida (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-53votemachines,0,739782.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines), or it will be as soon as Republican Governor Charlie Crist signs the bill passed unanimously by the Florida Legislature this morning.
In a 118-0 vote, the Florida House Thursday morning passed an elections bill to use optical-scan balloting as a replacement to touch-screen machines in 15 counties, including Palm Beach and Broward. The $28 million cost will come from the federal government.

Replacing the controversial touch-screen machines was among Crist's top priorities.

"Floridians have told us that they want trustworthy, reliable and verifiable elections," said state Rep. Dorothy Hukill, R-Port Orange.I've long argued that this should be a bipartisan issue, that vote accuracy is something that should be beyond party, and I'm glad to see that this has happened in my state, a state with a horrid recent history of electoral fuckups.

Touch screen voting is dead in Florida (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-53votemachines,0,739782.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines), or it will be as soon as Republican Governor Charlie Crist signs the bill passed unanimously by the Florida Legislature this morning.
I've long argued that this should be a bipartisan issue, that vote accuracy is something that should be beyond party, and I'm glad to see that this has happened in my state, a state with a horrid recent history of electoral fuckups.

As long as the optical scan ballots are properly designed....

there are ways to design those badly, and plenty of slack-jawed mouth-breathers who are unable to figure them out...

Touch screen voting is dead in Florida (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-53votemachines,0,739782.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines), or it will be as soon as Republican Governor Charlie Crist signs the bill passed unanimously by the Florida Legislature this morning.

In a 118-0 vote, the Florida House Thursday morning passed an elections bill to use optical-scan balloting as a replacement to touch-screen machines in 15 counties, including Palm Beach and Broward. The $28 million cost will come from the federal government.

Replacing the controversial touch-screen machines was among Crist's top priorities.

"Floridians have told us that they want trustworthy, reliable and verifiable elections," said state Rep. Dorothy Hukill, R-Port Orange.

I've long argued that this should be a bipartisan issue, that vote accuracy is something that should be beyond party, and I'm glad to see that this has happened in my state, a state with a horrid recent history of electoral fuckups.
It should say that the $28 million to cover the cost was extorted from taxpayers all over the nation, not just Florida.

You're welcome.

It should say that the $28 million to cover the cost was extorted from taxpayers all over the nation, not just Florida.

You're welcome.

Hmmm. Why should I pay for Florida's ineptness at running elections?

As long as the optical scan ballots are properly designed....

there are ways to design those badly, and plenty of slack-jawed mouth-breathers who are unable to figure them out...

I'm not worried about ballot design--I'm worried about no paper trail in a black box voting machine. Optical scan ballots have a way to be counted by hand when the machines fail, and they're easily auditable.

Hmmm. Why should I pay for Florida's ineptness at running elections?
Ah, so you noticed that it's very easy to do the 'right' thing when you can put your hand in someone else's pocket.

It should say that the $28 million to cover the cost was extorted from taxpayers all over the nation, not just Florida.

You're welcome.
And Georgia never gets a dime from the federal government? You guys get more back than you pay in as a state. Bitch about something worth bitching about.

Why in the world would this be a bipartisan issue?

How are republicans supposed to win elections if they can't get away with voter fraud? :p

And Georgia never gets a dime from the federal government? You guys get more back than you pay in as a state. Bitch about something worth bitching about.
States should pay to correct State problems. In this case, it's irrelevant that Georgia gets more from the Fed than it pays (mostly because of the agriculture and the farm subsidies, I suspect), it's important that the legislature in Florida decided it was okay to spend $28 million that they didn't have. Like I said, it's easy to be noble with someone else's money. That's the basic problem with all politicians.

I suppose I had better post this then: http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=sp0swqt5pf

I suppose I had better post this then: http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=sp0swqt5pf

Always knew Kerry was a slippery character. Hard to pin down, you know.

Being a Florida resident (though not born in Florida, and not moved to Florida of my own choice) I often wonder the following:

Who's the bigger idiot? Floridians who cannot count ballots properly...or the nation that decides that Florida is to be a powerful vote swinger and thus bites its nails in anticipation?

I'm not worried about ballot design--I'm worried about no paper trail in a black box voting machine. Optical scan ballots have a way to be counted by hand when the machines fail, and they're easily auditable.

Stop being a paranoid luddite.

The vast bulk of touch screen voting systems do have a printer included, which prints a secure ballot receipt after the voter has finished voting. They are independently countable and easily auditable...more so than optical scan even.

I'm going to ask an honest question. Why is America (or some states in America) seemingly unable to hold an election without controversy as to its integrity? (I use the word seemingly because, well, it might not be true, and just a media thing.) In the UK, we have never in recent memory had a problem with lost ballots, what constitutes as a mark on a ballot, butterfly ballots, touchscreens and so on. Just occasional rumblings over postal votes which never amounts to anything. Here, those problems are quite alien, and I just wonder why they seem to occur apparently so frequently.

I'm going to ask an honest question. Why is America (or some states in America) seemingly unable to hold an election without controversy as to its integrity? (I use the word seemingly because, well, it might not be true, and just a media thing.) In the UK, we have never in recent memory had a problem with lost ballots, what constitutes as a mark on a ballot, butterfly ballots, touchscreens and so on. Just occasional rumblings over postal votes which never amounts to anything. Here, those problems are quite alien, and I just wonder why they seem to occur apparently so frequently.

There are 300 million Americans and 60 million Britons. Thus, these sorts of things are likely to occur five times more often in the US than the UK.

Further, the American left doesn't like to lose, and often tries to rationalize their losses as the big, bad, mean conservatives stealing votes.

Stop being a paranoid luddite.

The vast bulk of touch screen voting systems do have a printer included, which prints a secure ballot receipt after the voter has finished voting. They are independently countable and easily auditable...more so than optical scan even.

I'm not being a Luddite, though on this issue I will admit to extreme caution--not paranoia. The problem with black box machines is that they don't fail well. When they crash, they can crash hard and in many cases there's no open and auditable way to get the information out of them. Also, I don't know what state you live in, but the touch screen machines down here don't have and never have had a paper trail, and from the reading I've done, that's the case more often than not.

It should say that the $28 million to cover the cost was extorted from taxpayers all over the nation, not just Florida.

You're welcome.

Kind of like welfare states that are subsidized by the northeast and west coast.

You're welcome.

Touch screen voting is dead in Florida (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-53votemachines,0,739782.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines), or it will be as soon as Republican Governor Charlie Crist signs the bill passed unanimously by the Florida Legislature this morning.
I've long argued that this should be a bipartisan issue, that vote accuracy is something that should be beyond party, and I'm glad to see that this has happened in my state, a state with a horrid recent history of electoral fuckups.

Well done Florida. Now let us push the effort up here in PA

Hmmm. Why should I pay for Florida's ineptness at running elections?
If you are complaining about this, I suggest you pick up the next dime you find laying around so you don't lose any money.

Cerean;12606403']Kind of like welfare states that are subsidized by the northeast and west coast.

You're welcome.
I think that argument was already made. Nice try, though.

I think that argument was already made. Nice try, though.

And it's just as appropriate here as it was earlier.

And it's just as appropriate here as it was earlier.
Nah, it's just as _wrong_ in either case.

Nah, it's just as _wrong_ in either case.

So let me get this straight:

Pork=bad when it involves the election systems of a state Myrmidonisia doesn't live in.

Pork=not bad when it comes to the state Myrmidonisia lives in (unless it involves election systems, presumably).

So let me get this straight:

Pork=bad when it involves the election systems of a state Myrmidonisia doesn't live in.

Pork=not bad when it comes to the state Myrmidonisia lives in (unless it involves election systems, presumably).
Nice try. Pork is bad. Period. I thought you paid better attention that that.

On the other hand, if I could just figure out how to get a subsidy for not growing pistachios and avocados, I might have a different opinion, but that's not the case.

Nice try. Pork is bad. Period. I thought you paid better attention that that.

On the other hand, if I could just figure out how to get a subsidy for not growing pistachios and avocados, I might have a different opinion, but that's not the case.
But you dont seem to be objecting to the fact that your state takes in more federal money than it pays in. You're rather nonchalant about it, as a matter of fact. And since Florida is one of those states that pays in more than it gets back (though it's close), it seems to me that your objections about Florida extorting the taxpayers of the rest of the country are more than a little ridiculous. If anything, this is a case of the Florida taxpayer getting back something that is rightfully theirs.

But you dont seem to be objecting to the fact that your state takes in more federal money than it pays in. You're rather nonchalant about it, as a matter of fact. And since Florida is one of those states that pays in more than it gets back (though it's close), it seems to me that your objections about Florida extorting the taxpayers of the rest of the country are more than a little ridiculous. If anything, this is a case of the Florida taxpayer getting back something that is rightfully theirs.
This is a thread about Florida excesses. Start a thread about Georgia excesses and I'll be glad to point out a few that you probably miss. Context is everything.