NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm not looking to start a flame war or anything, I want to give people a chance to explain why they believe in a certain position and what influenced them to because if you believe something, there has to be a reason, in your mind, as to why you do.

I'll get the ball rolling...

I'm pro-choice (and not just on abortion but life in general) because I was raised in a house with loose rules. My dad at least gave me more freedom at the age of 10 than most people had when they were teens. I was a latch-key kid. My parents were divorced and my dad, once I was old enough, started to treat me like I was older than I was. My mother however preferred to treat me like an inferior (and still does to a degree).

I did a lot of stupid crap but I did because my dad gave me the freedom but punished if I did something wrong or I lied. However, he would not punish if I made my own choices. He hated how his parents had forced him into religion as a kid and tried to give me more freedom. I had no curfew and only had to call if I was late. Yes, I know, I'm a girl with no curfew.

My freedom was to teach me responsibility and to make the choices I thought were right. I was punished only when the choices were bad for me and the people involved (ie: lying about breaking the neighbour's window... story for another day).

He is also the one who taught me, the world doesn't give a shit about you so you have to give a shit about yourself because people are self-serving.

My mother however, still seems to think that my dad brainwashed me into thinking like him because she loves to accuse me of talking like my dad. Of course, I don't see it as a bad thing because I could have wound up like her if I didn't resist her attempts to make me more girly.

She belittled almost every single one of my friends, except for my current boyfriend. My dad at least tried to be nice.

My best friend made own religious choices as a teen, which flew in the face of her parents. This influenced me to want to be pro-choice and make my own decisions. Sure it was bad for her for a little while but it took guts and I respected her for making her choice for her own reason.

What about you?

Why are you pro-choice/pro-life/other? What makes you think like you do?

What influenced you to believe one way or the other?

I actually have no idea.

Huh.


*goes to ponder*

I actually have no idea.

Huh.


*goes to ponder*

Yay! I made someone go and think! :D

Why?

Well, Why? is one of the best artists making music today. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbDqN0qYbk4&mode=related&search=)

*flees*

Why?

Well, Why? is one of the best artists making music today. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbDqN0qYbk4&mode=related&search=)

*flees*

Egghiccup;12605491']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJcebIEOkhY

This represents my opinions

Links... links... so many!

*spins around in her chair*

Ok, let's see what we've got, since words fail you... ;)

I was taught science in school :(

I usually look at both sides of the issue first before deciding. That way I can make an informed decision, but it also lead to a quite different position than that of most people.

why?

Why not?

I'm pro-choice because I figure it's not my place to tell women what to do with their bodies.

I wouldn't like it if women told me to have my nuts cut off...

You are a girl?! :eek: How did I not know that?

Anyway, regarding myself, I have come to most of my decision about life from looking at my experiences and coming up with (to me) rational answers about them. Like you I am pro-choice about almost everything, and, regarding abortion specifically, I uphold the right everyone has to their own body; no-one should be able to tell them what to do with it.

Although my parents took me to church as a child, they did not force it on me, and were fine with it when I stopped going. Generally, they encouraged personal choices and thinking for myself. That said, I rarely have "deep" conversations with them, and would not feel comfortable discussing personal things that I speak with my friends about.

is this limited to the abortion debate or is it why you take a particular side on anything? or is it your basic life philosophy and how that relates to your positions on hot button topics or.....

I just need to know.

Egghiccup;12605491']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJcebIEOkhY

This represents my opinions

I've been going through Bill Hicks' videos for about fifteen minutes now after clicking your link; this dude is sweet.

There are too many people to begin with. Abortion has the double value of weeding out some of the most undesirable. What's not to like about it?

I would pay people to get them if I thought it was in any way possible.

I'm not looking to start a flame war or anything, I want to give people a chance to explain why they believe in a certain position and what influenced them to because if you believe something, there has to be a reason, in your mind, as to why you do.

I'll get the ball rolling...

I'm pro-choice

Jesus was pro-choice too. So am I.

Unfortunately, many people are not. There are all sorts of people out there who would like to take away some of yours and my choices. Not because they care about us, but because they want to see more people holding the same opinion. Those who do care about us (and yet want to remove our choices) are perhaps well meaning, but fail to see that much of what it means to be human is to have choices. Taking away our choices is bordering on taking away our humanity.

Of course, I'm not promoting the option of every choice. I don't want to have the choice, for example, of deciding the day that I die. I'm happy to go when my time is up. Neither do I want to think of a good time for someone else to die. Glad that I don't have that choice.

And that almost brings us to the abortion issue. But I won't go there--because you didn't. But I will say that I am fully pro-choice, so long as it doesn't involve any killing, because there are just some choices that we shouldn't make.

Links... links... so many!

*spins around in her chair*

Ok, let’s see what we’ve got, since words fail you... ;)
*giggles*

To actually address your OP, I’ve always been a supporter of a women’s right to have an abortion (the term’s ‘pro-choice’ and ‘pro-life’ are so idiotic and rhetoric-stuffed, I refuse to use them), but I’ve never really had to think very hard about it.

I mean, it’s just not as much of an issue this side of the Pond. Abortion isn’t celebrated, but it isn’t demonised either, even by the Conservatives.

i don't think anyone can tell another person what to do with their own body, partly because i hope nobody tells me, and partly because i don't care. (there are obviously exceptions, for instance when somebody is in a coma, or for small children or mentally ill etc)

Eh, I'm pro-choice.

Mainly because it's on the list of things that "those who oppose it never had to deal with it" kinda stuff.

Really, pro-life people, you're supporting the idea that people you can't trust with an embryo without a law that states they can't kill it must be trusted to take care of a child.

But eh, I'm Evil Otaku. It would be disheartening if people listened to me. I'm EVIL.

is this limited to the abortion debate or is it why you take a particular side on anything? or is it your basic life philosophy and how that relates to your positions on hot button topics or.....

I just need to know.

It is about the central issue of such, except I'm leaving it open for people to take it more than one way, which is why I included 'other' in my question and didn't directly refer to abortion in my OP. I put it in a subtle manner.

I like to know why people take certain positions. People have reasons for making their CHOICES. I like making people think about why they believe as they do. I have surprised one of my friends in the past when I asked him what he truly believed and not what he had been taught to believe.

By asking people to say why they believe as they do, I am getting them to think about their reasons. It promotes thought, and in the end we can all understand each other better.

By knowing why someone has taken a position beyond the black and white of the situation, you can debate better. If you know your opponent was, for example, shot during a fight, is anti-gun, a pro-gun person may be more understanding in their attempt to persuade the other readily because experience has formed their character.

It's easy to paint people with similar beliefs with the same brush but we all come to our own conclusions bout life through our own experiences. By knowing each other better we know that there exists a reason for their stance beyond the simple statement that they believe in something or disagree.

The "why" can change how we talk to someone.

Let's say the topic was respecting your parents and I said "I hate and don't respect my mother but I respect and love my father." Without knowing why I said it, you would say I was a bad daughter, but if you knew, you wouldn't probably tell me I should try to make stuff better but that life does deal you a crappy hand once in a while.

I pick "hot button" topics because I love making people squirm; I like making people think. I'm the crass person who wasn't smacked for making smartass comments as a child in public. (a good argument for spanking your children ;))

It is about the central issue of such, except I'm leaving it open for people to take it more than one way, which is why I included 'other' in my question and didn't directly refer to abortion in my OP. I put it in a subtle manner.

I like to know why people take certain positions. People have reasons for making their CHOICES. I like making people think about why they believe as they do. I have surprised one of my friends in the past when I asked him what he truly believed and not what he had been taught to believe.

By asking people to say why they believe as they do, I am getting them to think about their reasons. It promotes thought, and in the end we can all understand each other better.

By knowing why someone has taken a position beyond the black and white of the situation, you can debate better. If you know your opponent was, for example, shot during a fight, is anti-gun, a pro-gun person may be more understanding in their attempt to persuade the other readily because experience has formed their character.

It's easy to paint people with similar beliefs with the same brush but we all come to our own conclusions bout life through our own experiences. By knowing each other better we know that there exists a reason for their stance beyond the simple statement that they believe in something or disagree.

The "why" can change how we talk to someone.

Let's say the topic was respecting your parents and I said "I hate and don't respect my mother but I respect and love my father." Without knowing why I said it, you would say I was a bad daughter, but if you knew, you wouldn't probably tell me I should try to make stuff better but that life does deal you a crappy hand once in a while.

I pick "hot button" topics because I love making people squirm; I like making people think. I'm the crass person who wasn't smacked for making smartass comments as a child in public. (a good argument for spanking your children ;))
so, if I were to explain why I am a libertarian and how that affects my positions on abortion, education, welfare, etc. that would be an acceptable non-hijacking on topic post?

I'm not looking to start a flame war or anything, I want to give people a chance to explain why they believe in a certain position and what influenced them to because if you believe something, there has to be a reason, in your mind, as to why you do.

I'll get the ball rolling...

I'm pro-choice (and not just on abortion but life in general) because I was raised in a house with loose rules. My dad at least gave me more freedom at the age of 10 than most people had when they were teens. I was a latch-key kid. My parents were divorced and my dad, once I was old enough, started to treat me like I was older than I was. My mother however preferred to treat me like an inferior (and still does to a degree).

I did a lot of stupid crap but I did because my dad gave me the freedom but punished if I did something wrong or I lied. However, he would not punish if I made my own choices. He hated how his parents had forced him into religion as a kid and tried to give me more freedom. I had no curfew and only had to call if I was late. Yes, I know, I'm a girl with no curfew.

My freedom was to teach me responsibility and to make the choices I thought were right. I was punished only when the choices were bad for me and the people involved (ie: lying about breaking the neighbour's window... story for another day).

He is also the one who taught me, the world doesn't give a shit about you so you have to give a shit about yourself because people are self-serving.

My mother however, still seems to think that my dad brainwashed me into thinking like him because she loves to accuse me of talking like my dad. Of course, I don't see it as a bad thing because I could have wound up like her if I didn't resist her attempts to make me more girly.

She belittled almost every single one of my friends, except for my current boyfriend. My dad at least tried to be nice.

My best friend made own religious choices as a teen, which flew in the face of her parents. This influenced me to want to be pro-choice and make my own decisions. Sure it was bad for her for a little while but it took guts and I respected her for making her choice for her own reason.

What about you?

Why are you pro-choice/pro-life/other? What makes you think like you do?

What influenced you to believe one way or the other?

Wow thats a great topic, and one that is very close to my main interest in life. Why are we as we are? What makes some of us vastly differant form some others and why?

I could write reams here, I would like to write reams, but I'll try to limit my self.

In short then, most of us believe what we do, and think how we do because of conditioning by our culture, our parents, our peers, and some of it is genetic predisposition.

Many of us live to some degree by that old standard, 'Treat people how you wish to be treated', perhaps expressed using other words, or put in a differant way, but the basic meaning is the same. Many of us think like this because we think 'I should have the freedom to live my life how I wish' then of course to not extend this line of thought towards others seems churlish.

Of course some of us do indeed not agree with this sense of 'equality', and will instead think along the lines of 'Some people need to be lead, and told what to do'

This then is the differance between libralisim, and facisim.

The interesting thin(well it is to me) come when we try to see exactly how much of our thought is a product of our upbringing, and how much comes from us.

An example: When I was a child I never really got on with my Dad, ohh I mean of course I love him, he is my Dad, and of course now I see what a hard job he and my Mum had(each working two josb to look after 5 kids) but we did get beaten heh a lot. I being the oldest also had all sorts of shit to put up with, from the old 'You'er older you should know better, now bend over' to the 'Now your are earning(I was 9 I had just got a paper round) you can give your little brother and sister their pocket money' with an achlolic father it all made a tense stressfull childhood.

Then I become a teenager, and things just got worse, the first time I hit him back and all that stuff, seeing him down the pub, where he would belittle me in front of my freinds(a big nonno at that age huh).

Through to my young adult years and the inevitable parents divorce, and all the strife that comes with that.

suffice to say I made up my mind a long, long time ago to be all that which I percived my dad not to be, to grow up to be the opposite of my father, and in most things that is exactly what happend. Heh of course I like a drink myself and other things that I see we have in common.

But this will to be not like my dad, can I say that it truely comes from me, or is it a direct result of my upbringing? I dunno, mybe one day I'll get it figured otu, but it is still interesting anyhoo.

I am pro-choice because I work in child abuse prevention.

The best prevention for child abuse is to not have the baby in the first place.

Imagine that. :D

I have always believed that the ultimate responsibility for any of my actions would begin and end with myself, and that others can only hurt or help me if I permit them to do so. I was taught to rely on myself first and foremost.

Food in my family also plays a role in how I've come to view my responsibilties. My family rarely ate out, opting for the in-home meal as much as possible, often with delights from our backyard gardens. Beer, which is so often purchased by many at the grocery store in bulk with little flavor, has always been brewed at home, to be rich and delicious. I've always been taught that what you can do for yourself is far more fulfilling than merely ordering dominoes and crackin' open a can of Bud.

School and education dominated my life. I read, watched educational television and visited museums with my family during my free time. Knowledge was the ultimate currency, and my parents were very involved in my education. I benefited from living in one of the best school districts in my state, and my respect for authority figures is deeply rooted in my respect for my teachers and the educators I dealt with. I was treated fairly, respectfully and humanely by my teachers (although not always by my peers) and I thank them, for without that solid belief in the power of education, I would be a miserable person.

At the same time, I was raised in a moderate Christian household, where I was taught more of tolerance, acceptance and love than I was of condemnation and anger. My sister had temper issues, but I always, always, always turned the other cheek when she tried to inflict violence upon my person (which was a daily routine throughout elementary school) as she was causing me no real harm, and she was merely seeking to be the center of attention. Mr. Rogers was my childhood television show of choice...well after most kids had switched over to other, flashier shows. Something about his gentleness and decency appealed to me, and I still believe that he was the type of person I would prefer to emulate.

Oh, I love beer too, yeah, beer.

(my beliefs as a whole) I don't know. I'm ridiculed and disappointed at every turn, but despite that, I continue to believe that humanity can work together and build a better future if we're willing to try.

I don't know. I'm ridiculed and disappointed at every turn, but despite that, I continue to believe that humanity can work together and build a better future if we're willing to try.

I'm with you, well in sentiment anyway, realisticly though, untill there comes a time when all of mankind thinks alike, then we will always war, and violence between our differant factions. I can't ever see us all thinking alike, and so tolerance really is the word!

so, if I were to explain why I am a libertarian and how that affects my positions on abortion, education, welfare, etc. that would be an acceptable non-hijacking on topic post?

Do you honestly try and NOT understand my point? ;) because if you are, nicely done. :D :)

But seriously... hmmm...

For example, you homeschool your children. You've explained before your reasons and how it's a true success story so far. However, some people may not understand your motives when you praise the process of homeschooling. They might say that the children will lack the social development that comes from contact with peers their age. This is why the "why" in our choices is important and why the influence that has made us the way the we is important. Being able to answer "why" is just as important as any other element that forms and moulds your beliefs.

I picked a broad, hot-button topic because it's a good place to start from. Plus I'm looking for a nice vague answer.

I'm with you, well in sentiment anyway, realisticly though, untill there comes a time when all of mankind thinks alike, then we will always war, and violence between our differant factions. I can't ever see us all thinking alike, and so tolerance really is the word!

Well, I don't think everyone thinking alike is a prerequisite for a stable and more comfortable future. We can have different ideas without conflict. :)

I am pro-choice on everything too. My parents are environmentalists and I was brought up to understand that man is an animal and a part of the ecosystem. Overpopulation is a problem and my parents and I both recognized this. Abortion, birth control, war, famine, and disease are the cures for overpopulation. As such, I do not see any of the above as bad. Famine certainly sounds unpleasant but it is not evil as it is one way for nature to control our population if we do not control it ourselves.

War can be unleasant, but it is far more honorable to die in battle than from cancer.

As such I am no damned pacifist. I also do not give a lot of money to charities that are people-oriented. I am much more likely to give to animals and the environment.

Abortion is great. I think that breeding is evil in an overpopulated world or at least breeding too much. One or two kids is not so bad. I like it when I see that people die, as long as they did not suffer. I get pretty upset when people are born espescially when people have 3 or more children. I am all about freedom and human rights except in the area of reproductive rights. I think that the state should pay for poor people's abortions and subsudize contracepton. I think that breeders should pay more taxes and that no public money should be spent on feeding and housing the poor. I also think education for retarded people is well retarded. I think that we need to focus our education system on acheiving excellence and not on making people feel good about themselves. I think that academic standards should be increasingly difficult so people are prepared for an increasingly complex world.

I think that we need more merit scholarships in this country and less need based scholarships. I think that higher education should be accessible to anybody who is smart regardless of wealth. I think that it is our duty to become wealthy so that we can use our wealth for good purposes.

My parents were liberal and my mom is a feminist and thinks that gays should be able to marry. I always thought that these views were perverted and did not jive with my Boy Scouting and Biblical based concepts of morality.

I saw first hand how wierd it is to structure a feministy relationship and raise a family that way. Accordingly, I am 100% paternalistic and believe that every family needs one captain of the ship and that unless you live in a maternalistic tribe then the papa is the boss.

I think that Scouting influenced me because I swore an oath to abide by the Scout law. As such I am honest and trustworthy and thrifty and all that jazz.