NationStates Jolt Archive

Those two want to go, too.

Right or wrong?

Those two also want to go.

actually depends on the paragraph context.

my father MASSIVELY overuses commas. to an amazingly crazy extent. drives me nuts! I think his reasoning is that if you're speaking out loud and you pause to take a breath, there goes a comma. of course, he's better educated than that, but he just keeps doing it.

course, people who underuse commas are just as bad. it begins to become almost impossible to understand them after a while. I had a friend who like runon sentances without commas. like... four paragraphs worth without a period or a comma. totally incomprehensible.

Those two also want to go.

I was writing that but I think it changes the emphasis of the sentence.

I'd prefer - Those two want to go as well

I'm not sure if 'well' is officially allowed at the end of a sentence.

For the actual OP, a comma is not needed but that doesn't mean the sentence isn't ugly.

*snip*
So in your opinion, is not capitalizing words at the beginning of a sentence ok?

was writing that but I think it changes the emphasis of the sentence.
I suppose it does.

I'm not sure if 'well' is officially allowed at the end of a sentence.
I see it the end of sentences in books frequently, so my guess is that its ok.

So in your opinion, is not capitalizing words at the beginning of a sentence ok?

You missed a comma after 'So' :p

You missed a comma after 'So' :p
I don't want to seem fancy by using proper grammar/punctuation.

So in your opinion, is not capitalizing words at the beginning of a sentence ok?

Yeah, mostly cause I do it :D heh I've played MMOs for the last 10 years... I capitalize my 'I's but pretty much ignore the rest unless I'm called on it or if I'm typing to my mum.

I actually do, because the capitalization of a word at the beginning of a sentence does not change the meaning of a sentence. Over- or underusing commas can change the meaning a great deal in most circumstances.

This is just in online communication, when I'm writing on a piece of paper or printing out something for work or family I actively use every grammatical and punctuational asset at my disposal. It's just lazy otherwise.

The comma is a very versatile little fella. Short of, putting it in, wildly, inappropriate places, it's actually quite hard to use it incorrectly; it will come down to a personal preference.

Actually, commas are used to link one dependent clause to another independent clause. Or so I think.

For example: My dog (independent standalone sentence) , who barks loudly (dependent clause) , took a walk. (Also a dependent clause.)

Actually, commas are used to link one dependent clause to another independent clause. Or so I think.

For example: My dog (independent standalone sentence) , who barks loudly (dependent clause) , took a walk. (Also a dependent clause.)

Don't get me wrong; there are obviously grammatical rules about the comma, like everything. What I meant is that often you can do without a comma, or use something else in its place. That's why you hear stories about arguments in the printing rooms of newspapers, as editors strike out commas they see as inappropriate, and the journalist putting them back in.

I like commas.
Without lots of commas I'd get lost in my long, rambling sentences, and wind up horribly confused.

I speak exactly how I write. Now the only thing that still confuses me is this bastard ; The damn semi colon. My teacher always said if I was stuck between putting down a comma or a period to use one, but it just looks off; I mean look at that. Disgusting.

I speak exactly how I write. Now the only thing that still confuses me is this bastard ; The damn semi colon. My teacher always said if I was stuck between putting down a comma or a period to use one, but it just looks off; I mean look at that. Disgusting.

I love the semi colon; it's such a useful thing to use. :p

Comma use (http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_comma.html)

Those two want to go, too.

Right or wrong?Does 'too' relate to the wanting or to going?
i.e. Do they also-want to go, or do they want to also-go?

The comma changes the meaning of the sentence. Which is exactly what commas are for; they're not superfluous; they guide the interpretation of the sentence.

I'm probably guilty of over using commas, but then I also tend to write fairly long sentences if I'm not careful. Long sentences need those commas or they die in incomprehensibility.

They can be used to: add dependent clauses; list adjectives or adverbs; and used in conjunction with... conjunctions.

eg. My black, short haired dog is named Joe.
My dog, who is black and short haired, is named Joe.

I like peanut butter, but I like it even better when it is mixed with chocolate spread.

I like commas.
Without lots of commas I'd get lost in my long, rambling sentences, and wind up horribly confused.http://i.imdb.com/Photos/CMSIcons/emoticons/basic2/yes.gif Same here. At least I have the excuse of being German. :p

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/CMSIcons/emoticons/basic2/yes.gif Same here. At least I have the excuse of being German. :p

I'm just rambling and confused :p

Those two want to go, too.

Right or wrong?

The use of one comma in a sentence is not overuse, even if it is completely unnecessary.
The comma should be regarded as phrasing by the writer, an indication of how they would pause were they reading the sentence aloud. If superfluous it can easily be ignored.

The comma can only be considered overused, if two or more are used, in one sentence, like I'm doing now. Using a comma in the way it's used in this sentence, is superfluous rather than excessive.

I'm just rambling and confused :pSame difference. :p

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/NuGo1988/ighzi9.gif

I speak exactly how I write. Now the only thing that still confuses me is this bastard ; The damn semi colon. My teacher always said if I was stuck between putting down a comma or a period to use one, but it just looks off; I mean look at that. Disgusting.I like semi colons. Although I've been warned they're strangely addictive. But the comma is just wrong in some places, and a point too definite.

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/CMSIcons/emoticons/basic2/yes.gif Same here. At least I have the excuse of being German. :p

I only have the excuse of saying I'm German, but only know: "Ich will die Kniepe gehen." and "Ich will mein kinder essen." :D

I like semi colons. Although I've been warned they're strangely addictive. But the comma is just wrong in some places, and a point too definite.I have to force myself to use semi colons. I do love me some dashes, though.

I only have the excuse of saying I'm German, but only know: "Ich will die Kniepe gehen." and "Ich will mein kinder essen." :DWhich are both impeccable German. *whistles* :D

I like peanut butter, but I like it even better when it is mixed with chocolate spread.
That's just disgusting.

The comma can only be considered overused, if two or more are used, in one sentence, like I'm doing now. Using a comma in the way it's used in this sentence, is superfluous rather than excessive.Some would say it's just used plainly wrong in that sentence, rather than superfluously. There are rules for its use, and I don't mean "it's were the author pauses".

A panda walks into a café. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and proceeds to fire it at the other patrons.

“Why?” asks the confused, surviving waiter amidst the carnage, as the panda makes towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

“Well, I'm a panda,” he says at the door. “Look it up.”

The waiter turns to the relevant entry in the manual and, sure enough, finds an explanation. “Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves.”
[I can recommend reading "Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation"; it's has numerous funny and interesting anecdotes on punctuation, and also explains the proper usage (in the eyes of its author).]

Which are both impeccable German. *whistles* :D

I figure I can get to either:

A) A bar and get drunk until everyone speaks the same language.
or
B) A police station where someone might know some english.

Strangely enough the children phrase doesn't work as well in North Korea as they just keep running towards me with their hands out.

I have to force myself to use semi colons. I do love me some dashes, though.I'm still trying to work out when and how to use them, although I've been assured they can't be used wrongly (or hardly, anyway). I always neglect colons, : , too.

Those two want to go, too.

Right or wrong?

Oh, I see. You ask for a yea or nay to this example.
Whatever.
The use of the comma there is perfectly fine.
How about this:

"Whatever you want, to coin a phrase, just go get it, be it however unpopular"(Using commas instead of ellipses.)
"Then she, or was it he, said something so, like, stupid, I choked on my cigar, well almost." (Why quote such a moron anyway?)
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" (No-one had a problem with that at the time: it was good English)

Long sentences are harder to read, stringing two sentences together with commas is wrong but not overuse of the comma. might have something to do with being too lazy to capitalize?

Some would say it's just used plainly wrong in that sentence, rather than superfluously. There are rules for it's use, and I don't mean "it's were the author pauses".


[I can recommend reading "Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation"; it's has numerous funny and interesting anecdotes on punctuation, and also explains the proper usage (in the eyes of its author).]

I've heard it. It's funny. "Eats shoots and leaves" is not a sentence.
Let's keep it simple: state the rule, or quit yer quibbling.

I'm still trying to work out when and how to use them, although I've been assured they can't be used wrongly (or hardly, anyway). I always neglect colons, : , too.
They can be used incorrectly quite easily (without putting them randomly into sentences, I mean). I know some people who use them almost interchangeably with a fullstop, in which case you get some very odd sentences.

I learned to use them pretty much exclusively as a replacement for 'but' or 'and' - for example, "He opened the door; [but] there was no-one there". The problem is that some people can't seem to see that sometimes you clearly shouldn't use it in that context.

They can be used incorrectly quite easily (without putting them randomly into sentences, I mean). I know some people who use them almost interchangeably with a fullstop, in which case you get some very odd sentences.

I learned to use them pretty much exclusively as a replacement for 'but' or 'and' - for example, "He opened the door; [but] there was no-one there". The problem is that some people can't seem to see that sometimes you clearly shouldn't use it in that context.

Cancer of the semi-colon. Very nasty. :)

I've heard it. It's funny. "Eats shoots and leaves" is not a sentence.Ok, then read:
"A panda eats, shoots and leaves." or "A panda eats shoots and leaves". Same problem, and those are sentences.

Let's keep it simple: state the rule, or quit yer quibbling.There's some 17 odd rules, and I haven't got the book on me. The simple fact is that sentences mean different things depending on the punctuation, as above.

They can be used incorrectly quite easily (without putting them randomly into sentences, I mean). I know some people who use them almost interchangeably with a fullstop, in which case you get some very odd sentences.I meant dashes. I think I have a pretty good handle on semi colons.

There's some 17 odd rules, and I haven't got the book on me. The simple fact is that sentences mean different things depending on the punctuation, as above.

Or you could just go to post 15 on this thread

Ok, then read:
"A panda eats, shoots and leaves." or "A panda eats shoots and leaves". Same problem, and those are sentences.
OK, you have proven your point. The use or not of the comma completely changes the meaning of the sentence. "Shoots" and "leaves" are used as nouns in one, but as verbs in the other; this is not a likely misunderstanding in most sentences.

There's some 17 odd rules, and I haven't got the book on me. The simple fact is that sentences mean different things depending on the punctuation, as above.
:rolleyes: I offered a simple rule that works for me. You offered "I read a book which convinced me it was incredibly complicated and now I have no idea."

I say my rule beats your rule. :p

I'll state my personal rule once more.

Take all the commas out of the sentence. Read it aloud or in your head, phrasing it to make sense. Put as few commas between the phrases as possible, and if it doesn't makes sense then, break the sentence some other way.

The beauty of this rule is that if it's wrong, no-one will know because it doesn't make sense. :p

I wasn't asking because I wasn't sure; I was asking because I wanted to see how many people would get it wrong.

I really can't see how adding a comma there even works with the vocal flow of the sentence. I complained about the sentence on the site that I saw it on, and I got 5 responses, all telling me I was wrong.

There's no reason to separate the adverb from the verb it modifies.

What really irked me was the context it came up in. There was a question that said

Those ___ want ___ go, ___
A. two, to, too
B. blah blah blah etc.

It was a grammar/word usage question... I just couldn't let it go.



"Whatever you want, to coin a phrase, just go get it, be it however unpopular"(Using commas instead of ellipses.)
"Then she, or was it he, said something so, like, stupid, I choked on my cigar, well almost." (Why quote such a moron anyway?)
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" (No-one had a problem with that at the time: it was good English)

Ellipsis? As in... the three periods? Why would you even think of using those in the first place. You used commas for a parenthetical expression, which is what you are supposed to do.
The second sentence is... messy. I'd be ok with it when writing dialogue. Otherwise, I'd write, "Then she (or was it he?) said something so stupid that I choked on my cigar... well, almost."
For the declaration of independence... I'd probably use a colon to start off the list. Other than that, it's fine.

I'm, ah, addicted to commas. I'm just getting out of rehab to tell you the truth.

I wasn't asking because I wasn't sure; I was asking because I wanted to see how many people would get it wrong.
Yep, I got it "wrong" then. Big woop.

I really can't see how adding a comma there even works with the vocal flow of the sentence. I complained about the sentence on the site that I saw it on, and I got 5 responses, all telling me I was wrong.

There's no reason to separate the adverb from the verb it modifies.

What really irked me was the context it came up in.
Oy! Geezer! You didn't give US the context!
I read it as "Those two commas want to go, while we're on the subject" with "want to go" used in the hustle-it-down-a-dark-laneway-and-beat-the-blue-bejusus-out-of-it sense.

Ellipsis?
I said ellipses. I was guessing that was the plural of ellipsis.
As in... the three periods?
Oops.
Why would you even think of using those in the first place. You used commas for a parenthetical expression, which is what you are supposed to do.
I meant parentheses. My bad. I totally used the wrong word.
The second sentence is... messy. I'd be ok with it when writing dialogue. Otherwise, I'd write, "Then she (or was it he?) said something so stupid that I choked on my cigar... well, almost."
Yes. I wouldn't say a dumbass sentence like that, and using it in dialogue would be almost as awkward as spelling out dialect, which shits me in books. There's something patronizing about writing a novel in recieved English, but spelling out the dialogue. Finnegan's Wake, though, is bloody great and there isn't any contrast between the author's voice and the characters'. That's how to do it.
For the declaration of independence... I'd probably use a colon to start off the list. Other than that, it's fine.
Yeppum. Chose it because it sounds like a speech, illustrating my point that good speech can be simply written down to produce good writing.

The first option in the poll is correct in terms of comma usage, but it's a hideous sentence.

Yeah, mostly cause I do it :D heh I've played MMOs for the last 10 years... I capitalize my 'I's but pretty much ignore the rest unless I'm called on it or if I'm typing to my mum.

I actually do, because the capitalization of a word at the beginning of a sentence does not change the meaning of a sentence. Over- or underusing commas can change the meaning a great deal in most circumstances.

This is just in online communication, when I'm writing on a piece of paper or printing out something for work or family I actively use every grammatical and punctuational asset at my disposal. It's just lazy otherwise.

I play MMOs too. That doesn't give you an excuse to be lazy in your typing. Bet you're one of those annoying sods who uses U as if it were a word.

I'm, ah, addicted to commas. I'm just getting out of rehab to tell you the truth.

You poor thing! I hope they didn't give you insulin coma therapy? It has terrible side-effects I hear ...

You poor thing! I hope they didn't give you insulin coma therapy? It has terrible side-effects I hear ...

No, they gave me some perscription called Semicolon, apperently they gave the same thing to Edgar Allen Poe.

I tend to overuse virtually all punctuation. However, I try not to use it when it's not needed, as in the previous sentence, thus saving it for when it is useful, as in this sentence.

I play MMOs too. That doesn't give you an excuse to be lazy in your typing. Bet you're one of those annoying sods who uses U as if it were a word.

nopers, I've actually left guilds because of people doing that too much. gets on every one of my last nerves. u ur m8. I leave groups and yell at people in chat. I don't play WoW. I don't im people who do that either. Hell, I get pissy when people on here do it, I'll stop checking up on a thread if it's littered with that. (hit a button there, you did)

I type very quickly, and the shifting slows me down by something like 15 wpm. that's the only shortcut I take, and I don't even take it with my 'I's.

I tend to use commas as much as possible... Serial commas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma), in particular. And ellipses - I over use them, too.

I like to almost 'bracket-off', with commas, different sections - clauses, ideas, whatever - of my writing, in order to try and prevent ambiguity of these things overlapping. Of course, on occasion, it may do the opposite. But I like to think I exercise my judgement quite effectively, in that area...

Hmmm... I am similar when using a scientific calculator, actually: I always end up over-bracketing... But, still.

Half a retraction:
After further research, I've noticed that a lot of grammar sites using the ", too" but none that provide a rule specifying that it should be used. What I have found is...


A. A comma can do some work in making the meaning of a sentence clear, but to claim two different meanings for I like apples and bananas too with and without a comma before too puts too much pressure on the comma. Out of context, neither version would be perfectly clear. To make the different meanings more apparent, short of additional context, you’d have to be more explicit:

I too like apples and bananas.I like not only apples but bananas too.

Use commas with too only when you want to emphasize an abrupt change of thought:

He didn’t know at first what hit him, but then, too, he hadn’t ever walked in a field strewn with garden rakes.

In most other cases, commas with this short adverb are unnecessary (an exception being sentences that begin with too—in the sense of also—a construction some writers would avoid as being too awkward).

The same idea at:
http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/grammarlogs3/grammarlogs444.htm

In any case, it appears the it's a stylistic concern. I still think it's poor style to use the comma in the example sentence, or in any sentence. I suppose the few people who voted 'either' were the right ones.

No, they gave me some perscription called Semicolon, apperently they gave the same thing to Edgar Allen Poe.
Egads! It's a joke ... and I don't get it!
I'm scared!
Are you trying to mess with my brain, telling me jokes I don't get? Is this karma finally kicking in!
Mommy!!! :eek:

:rolleyes: I offered a simple rule that works for me. You offered "I read a book which convinced me it was incredibly complicated and now I have no idea."That is quite a misrepresentation of facts. But by all means have your way with strawmen.
There isn't really anything complicated about proper usage of the comma, it's just too much work writing it all down. Not to mention using rules is much easier than writing about them comprehensively. But as was pointed out, there's a link in post 15.

I say my rule beats your rule. :pEven under your rule, I don't see how you could get away with a comma before that 'if' in the example sentence you gave: "The comma can only be considered overused, if two or more are used, in one sentence, like I'm doing now." It simply wrecks the sentence.

That could go either way.

Now, I see lots of times when commas are inserted for, absolutely no reason.

Conclusion of thread: No one can really tell you exactly when a comma can, or cannot, be used. Obvious offences, yes. Specifics? No. Sure, some person wrote a book about it, but I'd be damned if I couldn't do the same thing with entirely different rules.

And the sentence in the poll is crappy either way.