NationStates Jolt Archive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deprogram

Deprogramming refers to actions to persuade or force a person to abandon allegiance to a religious or political group.

Deprogramming is normally commissioned by concerned relatives of the follower, often parents of adult children, and is taken against his/her will, which has led to controversies over freedom of religion and civil rights.

This is probably me misinterpreting this but at least hear me out first so we can find out.

So a child or person is unable to think for himself, has no freedom of religion because he/she can't choose his/her religion, so why the hell is there controversy about freedom of religion if it is being forced? And civil rights?! Isn't infringing on other people's rights against civil rights? So if there was controversy one side would be suggesting they HAVE the right to remove another individuals or many individuals' civil rights (the right to make one's own choices is the main oen, without that what use is the other rights when its you not choosing them?) I know damn well that in the US at least the right to infringe other people's rights doesn't exist yet brainwashy bastards say it is. I wish my IC terror group Fists of "Intellectual Freedom and Justice" existed to teach these bastards a lesson! :upyours:

Calm down and repost it -- I can't figure out what you're ranting about.

But in many cases, cults use tactics and methods that trample their intellectual and religious rights to begin with. These people don't have the freedom to make that choice because the cults indoctrinate and brainwash them, so in order for these people to be free from the destructive behavior and mental damage that cults inflict, serious and rigorous therapy is necessary to free their minds and give them the ability to think again. The only people really violating their rights are the cults, who use lies, intimidation, emotional torture, and many other terrible things to break people down and prevent them from leaving or thinking on their own.

Now, mind you, deprogramming has been replaced by less controversial methods, but for a while it was the only way to free people from the dangerous and destructive behavior that cults inspire and the damage they inflict on innocent people.

I dunno exactly what you're arguing, but from your own source, "Deprogramming has almost completely fallen into disuse with the emergence of less controversial methods"

So, cheer up?

Edit: ah, nevermind, I thought you were arguing the other way... or something.

in theory in the United States the rights guranteed under the Constitution are only applicable to those 18 and over (legal adults) so a parent does have the right to "enforce" a particular view/religion upon a child (so long as it is not harmful to the well being of the child). though you can easily argue that the well being of a child extends to their choosing what they are to believe in the law doesn't afford them such luxuries....in the end though you have to look at it as a 250 years back you had to be a white male to vote and Christian to be afforded freedom of religion (not to many Muslims or Jews where tolerated or in the so called land of the free) so we've come a long way if we are looking at the issue where parents are in charge of the children's view. as long as the government itself doesn't knock on my door to give me my religion and point of view I'll say I'm relatively free compared to any society before....:mp5:

Calm down and repost it -- I can't figure out what you're ranting about.

The very idea that deprogramming people from cults had controversy,. I'm not pissed at wiki just the fact that it happened. Can't believe people would argue that they have the right to brainwash. Its like saying blowing up abortion clinics to show that "murdering" is wrong.

But in many cases, cults use tactics and methods that trample their intellectual and religious rights to begin with. These people don't have the freedom to make that choice because the cults indoctrinate and brainwash them, so in order for these people to be free from the destructive behavior and mental damage that cults inflict, serious and rigorous therapy is necessary to free their minds and give them the ability to think again.

The only people really violating their rights are the cults, who use lies, intimidation, emotional torture, and many other terrible things to break people down and prevent them from leaving or thinking on their own.

I hate cults for those reasons, all they do is harm and screw with the natural way humans think which is not to be tampered with AT ALL.

I hate cults, If I became a dictator I'd probably go overboard in rage and cause an infamous holocaust of cultists. :(

I wouldn't hurt them, I'd just outlaw them. The kinds of things many cults do are nothing short of criminal, and like any kind of crime they need to be kept under control...even moreso because cults inspire some very dangerous behavior .

I wouldn't hurt them, I'd just outlaw them. The kinds of things many cults do are nothing short of criminal, and like any kind of crime they need to be kept under control...even moreso because cults inspire some very dangerous behavior .

I'd do it legally since cultist would be enemies of the state and then I'd do tons of stuff to avenge the souls they've killed. The soul is the mind and if someone is a mindless drone that means the soul is destroyed right?

In fact ICly every time someone is brainwashed (the Reformers in South Lizasauria were reacting to cult nations invading, thats what made them fascist, only through totalitarianism and nationalist ideals could they defeat cult propaganda and unite the nation to retake the land.) the loved ones of that individual would make a tombstone and place it in the cemetery whether or not they were physically dead because they are seen as spiritually dead. It would have the date he/she was born/became self aware to the day he/she was brainwashed(spiritually died).

http://www.brainchildmag.com/essays/fall2001_wilkinson.htm This is an article from 6 years ago, as it states in the URL, but it still isn't that long ago when you think about it.

Enjoy :)

And by the way, the guy is still practicing what he practices, Ken Zucker, that is - there are more links on a quick google, but they're as biased as biased gets, so...

Sorry about the IC info bt I REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYY HATE CULTS! :mp5:

You can call me mean but I'm fully on the FBI's side concerning the Waco incident. Serves them right for trying to hack the human brain. :mad:

The more brutal you are to your enemy, the more support your enemy gets.

The more secretly you fight your enemy, the less support you get.

However, sociopaths, are essentially cancers of society. The only known way to eliminate cancer is to eradicate it, but perhaps there is a way to make cancer functional rather than destructive. Use said disease in a way that it gets rid of itself.

The more brutal you are to your enemy, the more support your enemy gets.

The more secretly you fight your enemy, the less support you get.

However, sociopaths, are essentially cancers of society. The only known way to eliminate cancer is to eradicate it, but perhaps there is a way to make cancer functional rather than destructive. Use said disease in a way that it gets rid of itself.

I'm not a sociopath. I hate them too. I never really thought as cultists as sociopaths, I saw cultists as deranged bastards who make others deranged with mind manipulation, sociopaths are people who want to openly do harm to society just because they get a wanton pleasure out of it, cultists do it because their leaders have some sort of agenda other than hurting society alone, the harm of society is usually a biproduct. But still both must be eliminated.

But still both must be eliminated.

http://rudezone.net/images/notThisShitAgain.gif

All religions are cults...some might be older and bigger cults than most...christianity being one of them...but they are all cults...they are always looking for an angle to manipulate the masses...they are the media in sheeps clothing...philosophy is the only logical path...but hey...perhaps ive been brainwashed too ;-)

temper temper

temper temper

Hey. How do I know your not a cultist? You use emotional torture and intimidation.

Is there something your not telling the other NSGers?

Hey. How do I know your not a cultist?

I suppose you don't.

Is there something your not telling the other NSGers?

Several things.

Exactly.

You won't brainwash me easily.

Exactly.

You won't brainwash me easily.


.......ok then. I will inform The Leader.

I'm not a sociopath. I hate them too. I never really thought as cultists as sociopaths, I saw cultists as deranged bastards who make others deranged with mind manipulation, sociopaths are people who want to openly do harm to society just because they get a wanton pleasure out of it, cultists do it because their leaders have some sort of agenda other than hurting society alone, the harm of society is usually a biproduct. But still both must be eliminated.

Never the less, the dangerous cultists are the sociopaths. The ones who know what they're doing, and are not brainwashed. People like Elron Hubbard, he knew he created a false religion and when people followed he angled it in a way to gain money. His predecessors are gaining quite a bit.

A good way to rid of cultists is to create an enemy for them to fight. Trick Christianity into fighting Scientology or one of the other religions and thus you don't have to spend a dime.

Stop trolling Arthais.

he advocates killing people off because of their religious beliefs and I'm the one trolling? Sure.

This post, like most others, is so full if not only blatantly unconstitutional, but down right immoral ideology as to be morally reprehensible.

he advocates killing people off because of their religious beliefs and I'm the one trolling? Sure.

This post, like most others, is so full if not only blatantly unconstitutional, but down right immoral ideology as to be morally reprehensible.

you yanks and your constitutions :headbang:

This post, like most others, is so full if not only blatantly unconstitutional, but down right immoral ideology as to be morally reprehensible.

You could have said that, and it would have been a much more elegant and debatable postion. :)

You could have said that, and it would have been a much more elegant and debatable postion. :)

having said the same exact thing to the OP about...oh...a dozen or so times, it gets old. Hence the "aw geez, not this shit again" sentiment.

having said the same exact thing to the OP about...oh...a dozen or so times, it gets old. Hence the "aw geez, not this shit again" sentiment.

Determination is a virtue, or at least it should be.

surely religion is solely responsible for the killing of countless of millions of people under the guise of what exactly? dont talk to me about what is morally right...the church is one rung down the ladder to hell more than the third reich...

surely religion is solely responsible for the killing of countless of millions of people under the guise of what exactly? dont talk to me about what is morally right...the church is one rung down the ladder to hell more than the third reich...

Religion is to philosophy as science is to mathematics.

They have some good ideas, but their heads are in the wrong places. Give em some time and they'll shape up to form something very practical.

You could have said that, and it would have been a much more elegant and debatable postion.
having said the same exact thing to the OP about...oh...a dozen or so times, it gets old. Hence the "aw geez, not this shit again" sentiment.

Indeed. The OP has exhibited a tendancy to be imune to logical arguments.

surely religion is solely responsible for the killing of countless of millions of people under the guise of what exactly? dont talk to me about what is morally right...the church is one rung down the ladder to hell more than the third reich...

Don't be confusing religion with the Church, religion didn't kill nobody :)

Never the less, the dangerous cultists are the sociopaths. The ones who know what they're doing, and are not brainwashed. People like Elron Hubbard, he knew he created a false religion and when people followed he angled it in a way to gain money. His predecessors are gaining quite a bit.

A good way to rid of cultists is to create an enemy for them to fight. Trick Christianity into fighting Scientology or one of the other religions and thus you don't have to spend a dime.

Stop trolling Arthais.

What about the ones that are partly brainwashed but still know what they're doing is wrong.

What about the ones that are partly brainwashed but still know what they're doing is wrong.

Sociopaths who would destory themselves in an artificial cult war. That, or once things heat up will come to their senses and merge back in with the general populace.