NationStates Jolt Archive

It has been a silly little project of the Greens in Germany for some time now to introduce a national speed limit. As most of you will know, currently there is no such thing, and on a few select highways you can drive as fast as your car will go, if there's no traffic jam, meaning only at about 2am at night). Here's (http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/47566/the_twilight_zone.html) an article, and here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JvhtB8Jiys) a video.

And because politicians haven't been listening enough (one of my favourite quotes was "well, then we'll just destroy the climate at 130km/h"), Greenpeace has decided to take things in its own hands: they are now putting up their own speed limit signs along those stretches of road.

http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0,1518,480316,00.html - the article is in German, with a bit of luck an English version will turn up in the next few days, but I summarised the gist of it.

Is anyone else reminded of the hybrid car episode of South Park, where Kyle's dad gives people tickets for destroying the environment?

Is anyone else reminded of the hybrid car episode of South Park, where Kyle's dad gives people tickets for destroying the environment?

Haven't seen that one yet.

In any case, aren't car emissions relatively minor, compared to industrial emissions? I was talking to an environmental lawyer the other day who said as much. You'd think Greenpeace would target factories, or at least auto manufacturers, before they went after regular people driving to work.

It has been a silly little project of the Greens in Germany for some time now to introduce a national speed limit. As most of you will know, currently there is no such thing, and on a few select highways you can drive as fast as your car will go, if there's no traffic jam, meaning only at about 2am at night). Here's (http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/47566/the_twilight_zone.html) an article, and here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JvhtB8Jiys) a video.

And because politicians haven't been listening enough (one of my favourite quotes was "well, then we'll just destroy the climate at 130km/h"), Greenpeace has decided to take things in its own hands: they are now putting up their own speed limit signs along those stretches of road.

http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0,1518,480316,00.html - the article is in German, with a bit of luck an English version will turn up in the next few days, but I summarised the gist of it.
Is the amount of fuel used compared to time of travel and distance of travel really that severe?
Why can't we live in a world where if i drive 50km in an hour and it uses x amount of fuel but if i drive 5okm in 3o minutes it also uses x amount.
Why must i be tormented by these things?
Is anyone else reminded of the hybrid car episode of South Park, where Kyle's dad gives people tickets for destroying the environment?
Sadly i have only seen 1 or 2 South Park episodes in the last 4 or 5 years and that was the Rusell Crowe/Korn episode and something else...

My favourites are the LOTR one and the Civil War with Cartman E Lee.
Genius just plain Genius.

You'd think Greenpeace would target factories, or at least auto manufacturers, before they went after regular people driving to work.
That's not really the point. They just want to make saving the environment a part of everyone's life.

Whether that's actually a good thing if you couldn't possibly hope to offset even one month of powerplant construction in China is a question no one seems to ask.

Is the amount of fuel used compared to time of travel and distance of travel really that severe?
Depends on the car, I suppose. Obviously if you're revving the engine hard to keep up high speeds, it's gonna be burning more fuel, emitting more CO2 in the process.

If you've got a quick car you won't have to rev as much, but the engine will already be burning more fuel to begin with.

Also, this is just plain nuts and slightly scary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqcdtsQpKrQ

It has been a silly little project of the Greens in Germany for some time now to introduce a national speed limit. As most of you will know, currently there is no such thing, and on a few select highways you can drive as fast as your car will go, if there's no traffic jam, meaning only at about 2am at night). Here's (http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/47566/the_twilight_zone.html) an article, and here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JvhtB8Jiys) a video.

And because politicians haven't been listening enough (one of my favourite quotes was "well, then we'll just destroy the climate at 130km/h"), Greenpeace has decided to take things in its own hands: they are now putting up their own speed limit signs along those stretches of road.

http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0,1518,480316,00.html - the article is in German, with a bit of luck an English version will turn up in the next few days, but I summarised the gist of it.

Is anyone else reminded of the hybrid car episode of South Park, where Kyle's dad gives people tickets for destroying the environment?

I agree with greenpeace in this matter. There should be speed limits. If not because of the environment, then because of safety.

Do greenpeace actually expect anyone to obey their speed limits? I mean, if I was on the autobahn and I passed a speed limit sign, especially one from greenpeace, I'd make a point to try and go faster than that limit.

Do greenpeace actually expect anyone to obey their speed limits? I mean, if I was on the autobahn and I passed a speed limit sign, especially one from greenpeace, I'd make a point to try and go faster than that limit.

Someone might get confused and slow down, conceivably.. though they say that on the freeway, traffic moving too slowly causes more collisions than traffic moving too fast, so they may be creating a hazard.

I agree with greenpeace in this matter. There should be speed limits. If not because of the environment, then because of safety.
Well, an argument can be made, I suppose. Though I think it would be worth actually looking at comparisons between those stretches of Autobahn and stretches with speed limits, and perhaps highways in other countries as well.

Some things are dangerous (and especially that second bike vid falls into that category), but it's more about the behaviour of the driver than the flat-out speed.

Well, an argument can be made, I suppose. Though I think it would be worth actually looking at comparisons between those stretches of Autobahn and stretches with speed limits, and perhaps highways in other countries as well.

Some things are dangerous (and especially that second bike vid falls into that category), but it's more about the behaviour of the driver than the flat-out speed.

I think they should actually try to indroduce speed limits under a certain amount of time and see how it works out. If it works out well, meaning fewer casualties and reduced fuel consumption, then they can stick with them otherwise it's not that hard to take them away.

I think they should actually try to indroduce speed limits under a certain amount of time and see how it works out. If it works out well, meaning fewer casualties and reduced fuel consumption, then they can stick with them otherwise it's not that hard to take them away.
That would cost millions and millions in taxpayer money. I think a pretty clear case has to be established first.

And I think there is some truth to the joke that the Germans are a nation of car nuts. I think the world needs a place where one can take a Veyron, F1, Zonda or Carrera GT and see how fast it will go. Or rather, I need a place like that.

It's almost cultural heritage (and from what I've heard here, it's quite a tourist attraction as well), so they better come up with good reasons to destroy it.

EDIT: Wiki to the rescue! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn#Accident_Record)
Accident Record
The overall safety record of autobahns is comparable to other European motorways, and motorways are safer than other road types. A 2005 study by the Federal Minister of the Interior indicated that there were an equal number of accidents per kilometer on the autobahn in sections without any speed limits.

Public debate
Since the mid-1980s, when environmental issues gained importance and recognition among lawmakers, interest groups and the general public, there has been an ongoing debate on whether or not a nationwide general speed limit should be imposed for autobahns. Typically a car's fuel consumption increases with speed, and fuel conservation is a key factor in reducing pollution. Safety issues have been cited as well with regards to speed-related fatalities. The opposition to a general speed limit maintain that such regulation is unnecessary because only two percent of all German roads would be affected and because better fuel economy even at high speeds has been achieved in most modern cars. Moreover, recent accident statistics supposedly don't lend proof that traveling at high speeds is that much more dangerous.

Twenty years after the beginning of this debate, there are no plans by the federal government concerning such a speed limit.

In the discussion about such plans during his political term of office, the former Bundeskanzler Gerhard Schröder called the Germans "Autofahrernation" (a nation of drivers) to point out the fact that a speed limit would not be generally accepted by the public.

That would cost millions and millions in taxpayer money. I think a pretty clear case has to be established first.

And I think there is some truth to the joke that the Germans are a nation of car nuts. I think the world needs a place where one can take a Veyron, F1, Zonda or Carrera GT and see how fast it will go. Or rather, I need a place like that.

It's almost cultural heritage (and from what I've heard here, it's quite a tourist attraction as well), so they better come up with good reasons to destroy it.

EDIT: Wiki to the rescue! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn#Accident_Record)

Okay, you've convinced me.

Haven't seen that one yet.

In any case, aren't car emissions relatively minor, compared to industrial emissions? I was talking to an environmental lawyer the other day who said as much. You'd think Greenpeace would target factories, or at least auto manufacturers, before they went after regular people driving to work.
Remember, these are the same people that tried to ban water.:p

Do greenpeace actually expect anyone to obey their speed limits? I mean, if I was on the autobahn and I passed a speed limit sign, especially one from greenpeace, I'd make a point to try and go faster than that limit.
Greenpeace Speed limit.- 120Km
Actual speed 260km:cool:
Someone might get confused and slow down, conceivably.. though they say that on the freeway, traffic moving too slowly causes more collisions than traffic moving too fast, so they may be creating a hazard.
People should just get out of the Dave lane.*nods*

The German people (just like most of Europe) are leading the World on environmental issues.

The Autobahn is a symbol of freedom.. let it be.

on this one, I am not on Greenpeace side.

The German people (just like most of Europe) are leading the World on environmental issues.
To be fair, that's not necessarily true on cars: http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,464652,00.html

To be fair, that's not necessarily true on cars: http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,464652,00.htmlholy guacamole.. Chevrolet is number 6 !!!!???? FTW :D


this is the chevy my uncle drives..
http://www.autoblog.it/uploads/gp_051106_hummer.jpg

he is going to be pleased about der Spiegel appreciation.

holy guacamole.. Chevrolet is number 6 !!!!???? FTW :D

I guess that's more to do with the re badged Daewoo's than American SUVs.

I guess that's more to do with the re badged Daewoo's than American SUVs.... or all the Suzukis and Isuzus re-badged.

but still.. to make it in the top 6..
Chevy would need to sell -at lest- 3 of those rebadged.. for every SUV they sell.

The Autobahn is great greens shouldn't touch it. Btw traffic jams aren't that frequent. Its great going as fast as you can.

SUV's btw can't survive on the Autobahn :P

I agree with greenpeace in this matter. There should be speed limits. If not because of the environment, then because of safety.

There are fewer deaths per mile of autobahn than there are per mile of US highway.

Speed has jack to do with safety.

I agree with greenpeace in this matter. There should be speed limits. If not because of the environment, then because of safety.

Speed limits are only practical in high-density areas where there are likely to be children and mindless pedestrians, who cross just feet from a light, littering the streets. Where there are fewer people on foot, there is no real inherent need for speed limits. If there is a need, the signs should only apply during weather conditions that are less than favourable.

Some vehicles do need speed limitations built in, like tractor-trailer trucks. They should be capped at 110KM/h, while cars should be permitted to go faster. This would mean, however, that priority lane-usage would have to enforced, with slow-drivers using the passing/fast lane being ticketed for driving slow in a fast lane.

People can drive safely at high speeds. I feel safer in a car with my dad driving like a bat out of hell than with my mother driving on normal city streets at the signed speed.

Arent most car engines more effecient at higher speeds?

Also, this is just plain nuts and slightly scary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqcdtsQpKrQThat IS scary. That guy should have his license revoked if he is ever caught doing that.

First unspoken rule of driving in my family - you don't move over for anyone who is tailgating. If they hit you then it is entirely their fault legally. That's the law in the UK, if a driver is hit from behind they are NEVER responsible for the accident, no matter what they may have been doing. You can perform an emergency stop on a motorway and if you get hit from behind it is not your fault (though you'll probably be prosecuted for breaking other traffic laws).
[/rant]
All tailgaters go to hell.

edit: not that this guy is a reason for speed limits, but maybe there should be a law that states you can only overtake someone at a safe 'relative' speed. Say if you over take someone in an adjacent lane over 30mph faster than they are traveling then you are deemed to be speeding. But you can over take anyone as fast as you like as long as there is one lane between you. I have no idea how you would enforce this though.

Arent most car engines more effecient at higher speeds?Engines are most effecient in their highest gear, but each gear as a speed as which it is most effecient at (cruise speed). In most cars I think the top gear only allows the car to go slightly faster, the biggest difference being the effciency of the engine.

That IS scary. That guy should have his license revoked if he is ever caught doing that.

First unspoken rule of driving in my family - you don't move over for anyone who is tailgating. If they hit you then it is entirely their fault legally. That's the law in the UK, if a driver is hit from behind they are NEVER responsible for the accident, no matter what they may have been doing. You can perform an emergency stop on a motorway and if you get hit from behind it is not your fault (though you'll probably be prosecuted for breaking other traffic laws).
[/rant]
All tailgaters go to hell.


And cars with less than 250bhp should be banned from the passing lane.

Arent most car engines more effecient at higher speeds?

Efficiency caps at around 55 mph. After that, it requires enormous amounts of fuel to increase the speed.

There are fewer deaths per mile of autobahn than there are per mile of US highway.

Speed has jack to do with safety.

And there's no way it can have anything to do with the fact that there are many times more cars on the US highways than on the autobahn, right?

And there's no way it can have anything to do with the fact that there are many times more cars on the US highways than on the autobahn, right?

Not per mile of highway... car density is far higher in Europe. See the USA doesnt have more people and thus more cars but also more land.

Germans (im not one) are the best drivers in the world due to their EXTENSIVE driving courses and ofcourse by being a car orientated nation.

Not per mile of highway... car density is far higher in Europe. See the USA doesnt have more people and thus more cars but also more land.

Germans (im not one) are the best drivers in the world due to their EXTENSIVE driving courses and ofcourse by being a car orientated nation.
As a nation, I'm sure America is quite car orientated, although here in the UK people still see fit to drive 100 yards down the road.

Just to prove my point:

Highway
USA: 4.165.110 km
Germany: 231.581 km

Land Area
USA: 9.161.923 km²
Germany: 349.223 km²

Highway per km²
USA: 0,45 km/km²
Germany: 0,66 km/km²

Cars per Capita
USA: 478 cars per 1000 people
Germany: 508 cars per 1000 people

Population
USA: 301.139.947
Germany: 82.400.996

Cars
USA: 143.944.895
Germany: 41.859.706

Cars per km Highway
USA: 35
Germany: 181

Of all the stupid... I'm not German If I caught them putting up signs I'd start pulling them up one by one.

Remember, these are the same people that tried to ban water.:p Was that the 'ban chlorine" stupidity. Or was it some other idioicy.

I think the Autobahn is overrated.

I think the speed limit should be removed on English motorways.

why?

It would make no difference. You'd still be restricted to a maximum of 3 miles an hour most of the time :P

And cars with less than 250bhp should be banned from the passing lane.i r clueless about cars. Not one of things that especially excite me. How fast would that make your average car. All I know is that certain vehicles aren't allowed into the outer lane, like HGV and caravans.

I think the speed limit should be removed on English motorways.

why?

It would make no difference. You'd still be restricted to a maximum of 3 miles an hour most of the time :PYay for trains that run at 140mph. :D Motorways should be more like railways, more organised and so no need to overtake.

That IS scary. That guy should have his license revoked if he is ever caught doing that.
And considering that there even if the stretches of highway are delimited, he's still speeding on other roads, he probably would.

First unspoken rule of driving in my family - you don't move over for anyone who is tailgating.
Well, one of the Autobahn rules is that you stick to the right lane unless you're overtaking. And if you can, you move out of the way for things going faster than you.

I agree that he wasn't patient enough, but I also think that cars should get out of the way.

That being said, the penalties for tailgating are quite harsh in Germany. If the unmarked patrol cars and motorcycles spot you, you can end up in fairly deep shit (one reason being a much publicised incident where an AMG test driver tailgated a lady until she had an accident which killed herself and her kids, and the test driver fled the scene).

You can perform an emergency stop on a motorway and if you get hit from behind it is not your fault (though you'll probably be prosecuted for breaking other traffic laws).
Yeah. Emergency stops are allowed, but otherwise it's illegal to go less than 60km/h on the Autobahn if the road is clear.

Remember, these are the same people that tried to ban water.:p

They tried what? why in the hell?

But...but...The Autobahn is the win!

They tried what? why in the hell?

Penn and Teller's Bullshit! They convinced a bunch of enviromental protesters to sign a petition to ban "Dihydrogen Monoxide" (H20)