NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, I like to have the computers at my house up regardless of conditions, and I would like to be able to have power in my house for everything regardless of conditions, so I've been looking into purchasing two sets of five 1600s, rack mounted.

http://www.iqfuelcell.com/

Methanol smart fuel cells, that emit no greenhouse gases, and run on methanol.

Currently, it sells for about 1.01 dollars a gallon in the US.

On an operational basis, it may be cheaper to run my house on drums of methanol than it is to run it on power from the grid.

Sure, there's an initial setup cost, and I'll have to run and monitor it, but cheaper sounds good to me.

Now investigating whether or not I can get a tax break for using alternative means of powering my home.

* noting that if it's not a controversial thread, no one posts in it *

* noting that if it's not a controversial thread, no one posts in it *

Heh, indeed.

I thought "That sounds reasonable", but didn't think of anything interesting/worthwhile to post, so didn't. Sorry.

Why methanol? Seems to me something like methane which is easily produced at home with minimal equipment would be a better method.

You know, sounds like an idea to me... you'd need to do more research into things like how long a barrel lasts in the average household and about how much power you use comparativly and some other homework, but if you make it work let me know!

Methanol smart fuel cells, that emit no greenhouse gases, and run on methanol.If it runs on methanol, I don't see how it would not produce greenhouse gases.
A fuel cell still basicly burns it's fuel (albeit in a round about way).
2* CH3OH + 3* O2-> 2* CO2 + 4* H2O and CO2 is a greenhouse gas.
Nevermind where you get the methanol from.

If it runs on methanol, I don't see how it would not produce greenhouse gases.
A fuel cell still basicly burns it's fuel (albeit in a round about way).
CH3OH -> CO2 + 2H2O and CO2 is a greenhouse gas.
Nevermind where you get the methanol from.

The CO2 stays trapped inside the cell.

The CO2 stays trapped inside the cell.Oh come on. You can't actually believe that.
The thing wouldn't be able to stand the pressure after burning through the first liter of methanol.

Oh come on. You can't actually believe that.
The thing wouldn't be able to stand the pressure after burning through the first liter of methanol.

Well, that's what the diagram shows.

Yet the rest of the literature states that it puts out CO2 comparable to the breathing of a small child.

I guess we had better smother those children, eh?

From the site you linked to:

Mode of operation

All IQ fuel cells are direct methanol fuel cells (DMFC):

On the anode side, a methanol-water mixture is supplied to the cell by the internal fluid management. One of IQ's unique capabilities is the use of neat (100%) methanol as the fuel in the cartridge. The cathode side is supplied with air. Both, the anode and the cathode are connected through an electric circuit. In contact with the platinum catalyst methanol is converted into carbon dioxide (waste gas), protons and electrons. The electrons circulate from the anode side to the cathode via the electric circuit, while the protons pass through the membrane which divides the cell. On the cathode side, the protons, electrons, and the oxygen react to form pure water.

Due to the heating of the fuel cell while operating the evolving water is emitted as water vapor. Another by-product is a small amount of carbon dioxide. The overall amount of by-products equals the respiratory exhalation of a small child while playing.

(And no mention of it staying trapped inside the cell either, because that'd just be silly, and they're serious.)

Oh come on. You can't actually believe that.
The thing wouldn't be able to stand the pressure after burning through the first liter of methanol.

it wouldn't need to be stored as a gas seeing as it's not going to be used. it could just as easily be dissolved in a solvent or, better, reacted with something to put it in a solid state.

Well, that's what the diagram shows.Not the diagram I see on that site..

Yet the rest of the literature states that it puts out CO2 comparable to the breathing of a small child.

I guess we had better smother those children, eh?Only when we're not running a laptop on the electricity they provide :rolleyes:
*le sigh* I'm not saying it's 'teh evil' for producing carbon dioxide, just that it's not a magic power generation device. It is quite probably a lot more efficient for small-scale power than the usual alternative, and definately better than batteries.

Not the diagram I see on that site..

Only when we're not running a laptop on the electricity they provide :rolleyes:
*le sigh* I'm not saying it's 'teh evil' for producing carbon dioxide, just that it's not a magic power generation device. It is quite probably a lot more efficient for small-scale power than the usual alternative, and definately better than batteries.

All I need are Sodasorb canisters, and I can remove the CO2... that, and a lot of money...

Now, if they could find a way to make the Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide react with one another to make the methonal again; it probably wouldn't remain an alternative source for long.

Now, if they could find a way to make the Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide react with one another to make the methonal again; it probably wouldn't remain an alternative source for long.

you can use trees to make the CO2 into wood, and then use the wood to make methanol.

you can use trees to make the CO2 into wood, and then use the wood to make methanol.

So you're saying I could grow a lot of pot plants in my basement, right next to the methanol fuel cells...

Now, if they could find a way to make the Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide react with one another to make the methonal again; it probably wouldn't remain an alternative source for long.
Sure you can. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis)

So you're saying I could grow a lot of pot plants in my basement, right next to the methanol fuel cells...

It's the very basics of solar energy :D

Sure you can. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis)

I know about photosynthesis silly! If I didn't I'd be cutting up 500 year old bulldozers like my little brother for $10.00 an hour rather than only working part time at a radio station (being smart is a liability in rural PA). I was speaking about having the cells, or something in the cells create the methenol and recycle it.

Maybe if they stuck the plants IN the power cells? (My stupid statement for the day)

So you're saying I could grow a lot of pot plants in my basement, right next to the methanol fuel cells...

it would work better if you put it in a greenhouse.

this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol) should probably explain how you can make methanol out of wood (i think that's how they used to do it, why would they call it wood alcohol?)

Well, that's what the diagram shows.

If you are going to believe absurd things based on silly drawings, why not just buy a free energy machine?

Maybe if they stuck the plants IN the power cells? (My stupid statement for the day)

No sunlight :O

Yes huh! You put 'em outside!

If you combine it with a geothermal air source heat pump, feeding the exhaust into that...

Okay, that sounds half assed because it is. I can't find the article I read, but it was someone who had discovered that pumping CO2 into a geothermal tap not only worked better than the alternative, but the carbon would end up (not entirely, but a lot of it) embedding back into the earth. I don't remember the details, so if there are holes it is because of my description and not what happened, the dude was actually doing it not theorizing.

But, given my half assed description then you could feed the exhaust into your geothermal tap and have the exhaust fueling your heating and cooling system as the machines power the rest of your systems.

Of course, it doesn't (probably) work that way, but thats spotty memory for you, things could be cool...

Now, if they could find a way to make the Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide react with one another to make the methonal again; it probably wouldn't remain an alternative source for long.

You might be able to figure out a way to do that but it would take more energy to create the methanol than you would get from burning it or breaking it down and you would have to make up the energy deficit from somewhere else. It's those pesky laws of thermodynamics again.