NationStates Jolt Archive

As I stated before, I would try to do one of these once in a while, I said weekly but it's a little late. Today's version: Worst Band With "Staying Power" meaning that is has survived since the '60s, '70s, or '80s.


I'm leaning towards Led Zeppelin.

OFFICIAL NSG MUSIC PANTHEON OF SHAME!
Nickelback: Worst Alternative Band

As I stated before, I would try to do one of these once in a while, I said weekly but it's a little late. Today's version: Worst Band With "Staying Power" meaning that is has survived since the '60s, '70s, or '80s.


I'm leaning towards Led Zeppelin.

OFFICIAL NSG MUSIC PANTHEON OF SHAME!
Nickelback: Worst Alternative Band

How the hell could you put Black Sabbath on that poll?

How the hell could you put Black Sabbath on that poll?

It was the only one that came to mind.

U2. Without a doubt. Led Zeppelin is a distant second.

does the offspring count?

U2

Oh god, put them in a rocket to Mars please.

U2. Without a doubt. Led Zeppelin is a distant second.

You beat me to it. Reason enough to put U2 in the poll!

I voted Queen. Songs like Killer Queen, We Are The Champions, and Bohemian fucking Rhapsody just plain suck in my opinion, yet they still have fans.

Pink Floyd.

Led Zeppelin. The most boring shit, ever.

The Beatles, but also U2 and Oasis.

It was the only one that came to mind.

What is this that stands before me?
Figure in black which points at me
Find out I'm the chosen one
Oh no!

does the offspring count?

Ha! I got you with my big bolded text!

(Your sig...Your the first person other then me to do it.)

U2 sucks big fat donkey balls.

That's 5 votes for U2.

What is this that stands before me?
Figure in black which points at me
Find out I'm the chosen one
Oh no!


Yes. Fuck yeah, that song is sick. BLACK SABBATH.

Anyway, I say U2. They really just have terrible music, and yet they have a huge following. Aaaagh. I don't understand it.

And Bono just really pisses me off.

How the hell could you put Black Sabbath on that poll?

Or the Floyd ... you monster.

Yes. Fuck yeah, that song is sick. BLACK SABBATH.

Anyway, I vote U2. They are really just about the worst shit ever, and yet they have a huge following. Aaaagh. I don't understand it.

And Bono just really pisses me off.

I think U2 is so popular because they've released one, or more, single almost every year since 1980. And they're able to do this by turning nearly half of each album into a single. That's not cheap*. Not at all.

Also, the fact that they're "Christian" probably attracts people from the "Secular music is evil" crowd. They're all like "U2 is Christian, and secular, which makes them really cool so I should buy everything they release without even giving a second thought to their lack of talent."

*And I mean cheap in the tacky sense, not the financial sense.

Or the Floyd ... you monster.

Thirded...

How the hell could you put Black Sabbath on that poll?

Black Sabbath deserves highly to be on that list. Pink Floyd does not.

Yes. Fuck yeah, that song is sick. BLACK SABBATH.

I'm not really a fan of that song, I prefer N.I.B, Iron Man, Children of the Grave, and most of Dio's work with Sabbath.

Or the Floyd ... you monster.

How I wish...
How I wish you were here

Black Sabbath deserves highly to be on that list. Pink Floyd does not.

You obviously have no respect for the classics.

The AMA?

Black Sabbath deserves highly to be on that list. Pink Floyd does not.

Might I ask why? I'd actually say the opposite personally...

I'm not really a fan of that song, I prefer N.I.B, Iron Man, Children of the Grave, and most of Dio's work with Sabbath.

Yeah, all three of those songs are sick, but I prefer songs like Hand of Doom, Black Sabbath. . . and N.I.B. Real good song. However, I am not a fan of the work with Dio. I mean, no Ozzy, and no Bill Ward. To me, they are essential, and without them it isn't even Black Sabbath.

Might I ask why? I'd actually say the opposite personally...


Because I think Pink Floyd is excellent and Black Sabbath is not. And the Beatles and the Doors should not be on that list.

Yeah, all three of those songs are sick, but I prefer songs like Hand of Doom, Black Sabbath. . . and N.I.B. Real good song. However, I am not a fan of the work with Dio. I mean, no Ozzy, and no Bill Ward. To me, they are essential, and without them it isn't even Black Sabbath.

Don't get me wrong, Ozzy's okay. However, he's only truly great in his moments. Dio's a good singer even on songs that aren't his moments. Vinny Appice is a pretty good drummer, and Bill Ward was still in the band on Heaven and Hell.

Because I think Pink Floyd is excellent and Black Sabbath is not. And the Beatles and the Doors should not be on that list.

Yeah. See, I think Pink Floyd were really overrated (though still good), but Black Sabbath is probably my favorite band.

But I agree that neither the Beatles nor the Doors thould be there. Although I can understand the Beatles to an extent, particularly their early work.

I never liked the Beatles.

Don't get me wrong, Ozzy's okay. However, he's only truly great in his moments. Dio's a good singer even on songs that aren't his moments. Vinny Appice is a pretty good drummer, and Bill Ward was still in the band on Heaven and Hell.

See, I'd say the exact same things about Dio as you say about Ozzy. Really just a matter of personal preference, I suppose.

Yeah, I grant you that Ward was still there for Heaven and Hell, and that is probably the band's best album after Ozzy.

While Vinny Appice was an all right drummer, I just feel that Bill Ward had a certain kind of genius that really added a lot to the sound of Sabbath.

See, I'd say the exact same things about Dio as you say about Ozzy. Really just a matter of personal preference, I suppose.

Yeah, I grant you that Ward was still there for Heaven and Hell, and that is probably the band's best album after Ozzy.

While Vinny Appice was an all right drummer, I just feel that Bill Ward had a certain kind of genius that really added a lot to the sound of Sabbath.

Yeah. Ozzy and Dio are the best vocalists Sabbath ever had. Ian Gillan screamed too much and was too hoarse. Tony Martin was just mediocre. As for Vinny Appice, Dio and Appice left Sabbath formed a band called (guess what?) Dio in 1983. Listen to the song "Straight Through the Heart" from the album Holy Diver. Vinny Appice does this drum intro that's just sick. It's great.

Yeah. Ozzy and Dio are the best vocalists Sabbath ever had. Ian Gillan screamed too much and was too hoarse. Tony Martin was just mediocre. As for Vinny Appice, Dio and Appice left Sabbath formed a band called (guess what?) Dio in 1983. Listen to the song "Straight Through the Heart" from the album Holy Diver. Vinny Appice does this drum intro that's just sick. It's great.

I know about Dio, and I've heard some of that shit before, and truth be told...I just couldn't stand it. Made me real angry.

Might have to check out some sick drums, though. I dunno...these days when looking for real good drums, I tend to listen to some good death metal. Real good drums.

The poor Beattles. They revolutionize Rock'N'Roll and are possibly soley responsible for the widespread success of Rock as a paradigm in this day and age, yet they get all the hate.

The poor Beattles. They revolutionize Rock'N'Roll and are possibly soley responsible for the widespread success of Rock as a paradigm in this day and age, yet they get all the hate.

Actually, that's widely false.

Actually, that's widely false.

Elvis may have provided a breakthrough into the mainstream, but the musical influence of the Beattles can be heard in almost every genre. The same cannot be said of "The King".

Elvis may have provided a breakthrough into the mainstream, but the musical influence of the Beattles can be heard in almost every genre. The same cannot be said of "The King".

I still have yet to hear Beatles influence in classical, folk music, and death metal.

I still have yet to hear Beatles influence in classical, folk music, and death metal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6WNWiGkJYk

I still have yet to hear Beatles influence in classical, folk music, and death metal.

Classical music is not Rock, and therefore does not fit your classification. Similarly, most folk has an entirely different etymology (sp?) from Rock'N'Roll. Death Metal, which splits its influences between Early Metal (which had Beatles Influences) and Horror Punk (which comes from Punk, which took a great deal of influence from harder Beatles songs) should be apparent.

I know about Dio, and I've heard some of that shit before, and truth be told...I just couldn't stand it. Made me real angry.

Might have to check out some sick drums, though. I dunno...these days when looking for real good drums, I tend to listen to some good death metal. Real good drums.

How does Dio make you angry?

The Rolling Stones. Seriously, the world would be so much better off if someone had just shot Mick Jagger back around 1979. Lennon's dead, but no one can kill Jagger--what's up with that?

But the one missing from your list, I think, are the post-Jerry Garcia Grateful Dead, with an honorable mention to post-plane-crash Lynyrd Skynyrd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6WNWiGkJYk

Haha that's a good one.

And anyway, influence does not equal skill. For example, Nirvana influenced a LOT of modern bands. However, their musicianship and skill is lackluster at best.

Hey, Nirvana should be added to the list.

Haha that's a good one.

And anyway, influence does not equal skill. For example, Nirvana influenced a LOT of modern bands. However, their musicianship and skill is lackluster at best.

Hey, Nirvana should be added to the list.

Except Nirvana was infused with awesome. Greater than the sum of its parts or something or other.

Except Nirvana was infused with awesome. Greater than the sum of its parts or something or other.

No, not really. They just made grunge popular.

How does Dio make you angry?

I just don't really like his singing, or his lyrical style, or the music he made.

All of it just pisses me off.

No, not really. They just made grunge popular.

You're using fighting words... but everytime I try to punch you, I have to get a new computer monitor.

I just don't really like his singing, or his lyrical style, or the music he made.

All of it just pisses me off.

Hmph.

Elvis, he wasn't the king.

You know, Jimi Hendrix should also probably be added to that list. He got popular, died, and now everyone says he's the best guitarist ever. I think those people are overly stubborn and nostalgic.

Also Pantera should be on there. Ever since Dimebag got shot, they've been raking in cash cuz everyone thinks he was such a great guitarist (like Hendrix)

Also add Black Label Society. It's probably the biggest horseshit yet to come out of the south yet. Zakk Wylde is horribly overrated.

As I stated before, I would try to do one of these once in a while, I said weekly but it's a little late. Today's version: Worst Band With "Staying Power" meaning that is has survived since the '60s, '70s, or '80s.


I'm leaning towards Led Zeppelin.

OFFICIAL NSG MUSIC PANTHEON OF SHAME!
Nickelback: Worst Alternative Band

I don't understand why these threads aren't considered trolling. We can't do a "Popular Jews You Hate" thread. But I also refuse to rat anyone out to the mods . . . I mean, this is "General," ffs :p

This thread is filled with ignorance.

U2 is/was the most political band of its time. Long before these bands like Rage Against the Machine were criticizing the government/violence/polution/wars U2 was doing it and gathering plenty of atention to these subjects.

This thread is filled with ignorance.

U2 is/was the most political band of its time. Long before these bands like Rage Against the Machine were criticizing the government/violence/polution/wars U2 was doing it and gathering plenty of atention to these subjects.

Actually, lots of bands paid attention to politics before U2. U2 just made it really dull, which somehow became popular.

This thread is filled with ignorance.

U2 is/was the most political band of its time. Long before these bands like Rage Against the Machine were criticizing the government/violence/polution/wars U2 was doing it and gathering plenty of atention to these subjects.

Because there weren't any popular protest bands before U2. None what so ever.

And besides, it doesn't change the fact they generally make shitty music.

*Bah, someone beat me to it. :(

Consider this a write-in vote for U2. They suck. They make my ears bleed. And not in the good way that, say, a good metal album, but in the bad way, where my ears are heroically committing suicide to save my sanity.

You know, Jimi Hendrix should also probably be added to that list. He got popular, died, and now everyone says he's the best guitarist ever. I think those people are overly stubborn and nostalgic.

You are illogical.

You are illogical.

How am I illogical? If people stop crying over his corpse, they might realize there are actually better guitarists out there. He died young, it was a tragedy. He was a good guitarist, true, but there are better.

How am I illogical? If people stop crying over his corpse, they might realize there are actually better guitarists out there. He died young, it was a tragedy. He was a good guitarist, true, but there are better.

Many Hendrix fans realize then are other good guitarists. Tony Iommi, Randy Rhoads, ya know.

Many Hendrix fans realize then are other good guitarists. Tony Iommi, Randy Rhoads, ya know.

Yes, but they can't accept the fact that someone might be better than their beloved hero Jimi.

Now I know that's a generalization, but only a very, very small numver can accept that he's not the best.

Sabbath? Floyd? Queen? You have no respect for the classics. No respect. They're classic. They had staying power because they rocked. Can't say I like most newer bands. Wolfmother is okay, but most new rock sounds like either screaming or emo teens. It's nice once in a while, but when that's allyou hear, it gets old fast.

I voted other.

Sabbath? Floyd? Queen? You have no respect for the classics. No respect. They're classic. They had staying power because they rocked. Can't say I like most newer bands. Wolfmother is okay, but most new rock sounds like either screaming or emo teens. It's nice once in a while, but when that's allyou hear, it gets old fast.

I voted other.

emo died in the early 90s. the "emo" nowadays is pop-punk.

And I gotta say, Wolfmother is one of the worst bands I've ever heard, right up there with Nirvana.

This thread is filled with ignorance.

U2 is/was the most political band of its time. Long before these bands like Rage Against the Machine were criticizing the government/violence/polution/wars U2 was doing it and gathering plenty of atention to these subjects.

U2 was doing nothing new, and certainly nothing good. Before them, The Punks were doing the same thing. Before them, the hippies were doing the same thing. Before them, the Folk Movement did the same thing. You, sir, are full of shit.

They just made psuedo-politics (which is all they do) sound poppy. Nothing after their first album is any good.

emo died in the early 90s. the "emo" nowadays is pop-punk.

And I gotta say, Wolfmother is one of the worst bands I've ever heard, right up there with Nirvana.

I don't know. WM's songs flow nicely. Their songs are nice to listen to. No overthrashing (too much thrashmetal thrashing. Think Metallica) or yelling. I have yet to hear them sing about being dumped by a slutty girlfriend or how they hate (insert political thing here). They're different from what I hear on the radio all the time.

I don't know. WM's songs flow nicely. Their songs are nice to listen to. No overthrashing (too much thrashmetal thrashing. Think Metallica) or yelling. I have yet to hear them sing about being dumped by a slutty girlfriend or how they hate (insert political thing here). They're different from what I hear on the radio all the time.

Funny, but I never hear that on the radio. All I hear is the same old whiney bullshit, or the same old uber-masculine bullshit. I wish I had whatever radio you listen to, because politics are underdiscussed in actual music. Sure, shit pop bands talk politics on the talk show circut, but they don't do it in their music, because they're too fucking scared.

U2 is pretty terrible and they just won't go away. My cousins all love them, I really just don't get why. And I'm just plain tired of Metallica.

I don't know. WM's songs flow nicely. Their songs are nice to listen to. No overthrashing (too much thrashmetal thrashing. Think Metallica) or yelling. I have yet to hear them sing about being dumped by a slutty girlfriend or how they hate (insert political thing here). They're different from what I hear on the radio all the time.

They have the same lyrical content of basically every other "alternative" band out there, they just use really old recording equipment to sound "classic."

That's 7 votes for U2.

As for how I could put Pink Floyd on there, it's not like I could leave off bands just because I like them. I think Pink Floyd is easily one of the best bands on the planet earth, and blows the Beatles, creatively, lyrically, and musically into the fucking stratosphere.

The only thing I don't like about Pink Floyd is how they have more albums then songs.:rolleyes:

As for Black Sabbath, it has staying power and is popular. Therefore some people will think it's overrated.

As for political involvement, it varies greatly.

No Obvious Political Involvement: Most bands (Although many have, at this point, done an anti-war song.).
Vague, Semi-Focused Discontent: Some songs on "The Wall" by Pink Floyd, U2 (Based on what I've read in the thread.)
Vague, unfocused hatred: Green Day
Obvious, but unfocused hatred: Rage Against the Machine
Semifocused Hatred: System of a Down
Focused, intelligent hatred: the Dead Kennedys

Haha that's a good one.

And anyway, influence does not equal skill. For example, Nirvana influenced a LOT of modern bands. However, their musicianship and skill is lackluster at best.

Hey, Nirvana should be added to the list.

Yes, but from what I understand they didn't get their big break into mainstream with "Nevermind" until '91. Thus they barely missed the cut off point of '89.

Yes, but from what I understand they didn't get their big break into mainstream with "Nevermind" until '91. Thus they barely missed the cut off point of '89.

Oh I see the 80s limit.. So that's why there's no modern bands on there now.

You know, Jimi Hendrix should also probably be added to that list. He got popular, died, and now everyone says he's the best guitarist ever. I think those people are overly stubborn and nostalgic.



So should JFK.

The Beatles, by far the most overrated band in history.

So should JFK.

He's not really a band though.

He's not really a band though.

But he was close.

He's not really a band though.

Maybe a little?

He's not really a band though.

We could make him one.

We could make him one.

Ahem.

http://www.northernsun.com/images/thumb/4179.jpg

http://www.northernsun.com/n/s/4179.html?id=3KF8CAdg

Ahem.

http://www.northernsun.com/images/thumb/4179.jpg

http://www.northernsun.com/n/s/4179.html?id=3KF8CAdg

Oh, yeah. He performed with the Starlight Wranglers. (I once thought they were called the Whistling Strangers)

U2, by far.
Led Zeppelin? Are you crazy? You're all acting like they're overrated and full of suck, which they certainly aren't. First of all, overplayed =/= overrated. Second of all, get your head out of your ass and listen to something besides Stairway to Heaven and that shit from In Through The Out Door.

Pink Floyd? I understand how some people can call them overrated, but I would have to disagree.

But the Doors? Again, head out of ass, blah blah blah. Now listen to Not To Touch the Earth, and smack yourself for even thinking so.

One vote for Queen, the most obnoxious product of the entire 1980s. If anyone pulls out the "but what about Bohemian Rhapsody" defense I will stab you with a crochet hook; it's a horrible song.

One vote for Queen, the most obnoxious product of the entire 1980s. If anyone pulls out the "but what about Bohemian Rhapsody" defense I will stab you with a crochet hook; it's a horrible song.

...

MOMMA OOOOHHH JUST KILLED A MAN!

Led Zeppelin then Nirvana then U2.
*Has a bigger version of the Oswald Pic somewhere*

U2, by far.
Led Zeppelin? Are you crazy? You're all acting like they're overrated and full of suck, which they certainly aren't. First of all, overplayed =/= overrated. Second of all, get your head out of your ass and listen to something besides Stairway to Heaven and that shit from In Through The Out Door.

Pink Floyd? I understand how some people can call them overrated, but I would have to disagree.

But the Doors? Again, head out of ass, blah blah blah. Now listen to Not To Touch the Earth, and smack yourself for even thinking so.

I have a better idea, why don't you stop flaming and mentally masturbating, read that I don't hate all of these bands, not instantly assume "Stairway to Heaven" is the only thing I've listened to (I've listened to Coda and Zoso, one of which admittedly does have "Stairway to Heaven" on it.) and become more tolerant of other's musical tastes. What you just yelled at me for is the equivalent of yelling at someone for putting "Abortion is murder" on a poll asking your opinion on abortion, even if that person says they're pro-choice.

i vote U2. Horrible. Boring. Popular. Why?

How could the Doors be overrated? While it's true that everyone in the US will have heard "Break Through" at least 5,000 times by the time they actually reach the other side, most people wouldn't know Jim Morrison's lizardlike features if they found corpse rotting in their bath tub.

Anyway, I'm gonna say the Beatles, not because they're actually the worst around (I quite like Sergeant Pepper), but because I'm tired of hearing about how amazing they were when most of their stuff is about as exciting and moving as elevator music.

Elvis, by far. He didn't write any of his own songs, I don't care for his voice, and his guitar playing isn't spectacular either.

I have a better idea, why don't you stop flaming and mentally masturbating, read that I don't hate all of these bands, not instantly assume "Stairway to Heaven" is the only thing I've listened to (I've listened to Coda and Zoso, one of which admittedly does have "Stairway to Heaven" on it.) and become more tolerant of other's musical tastes. What you just yelled at me for is the equivalent of yelling at someone for putting "Abortion is murder" on a poll asking your opinion on abortion, even if that person says they're pro-choice.

Well, you did list Led Zeppelin as being the most overrated for you, so...

Well, you did list Led Zeppelin as being the most overrated for you, so...

True, but you also just assumed I had only heard a select few songs, and you also claimed I said I disliked the Doors. I do not (To be honest, I haven't heard enough of them to hate them. They just sprung to mind as a staying-power band.)

Ugh, I've always hated Pink Floyd. Their cover of the song about the dead girlfriend is awful too...the original was bad enough, but enter the horrible off-key shouting voice and it is taken to new levels of bad.

Ugh, I've always hated Pink Floyd. Their cover of the song about the dead girlfriend is awful too...the original was bad enough, but enter the horrible off-key shouting voice and it is taken to new levels of bad.

Are you talking about Pearl Jam or a Pink Floyd song that I have never heard?

That's 5 votes for U2.
add another one from me.
anyone keeping track of how many despise U2?

also, Bono. ugh. The man's an arse.

U2 and the Beatles have always done my head in. And, personally, I don't think that Zeppelin, Floyd, and the Doors should be on that list.

U2 - Just dull. Preachy. Mediocre. Bono is irritating.

The Beatles - People try to get me with the 'OMG they practically invented rock music'. Not only is that just untrue, but why does it matter anyway? I don't listen to something because it was first, I listen to stuff that's progressed above that. There's a reason we have moved onto using electric lights instead of using candles.

Psychedelia? Cream and the Doors did it better. Pop? The Kinks did it better. Rock'n'Roll? Most bands do it better.

None of those bands are really that terrible (most are actually good) but I do dislike the Rolling Stones and to a lesser degree, Elvis.

Haha that's a good one.

And anyway, influence does not equal skill. For example, Nirvana influenced a LOT of modern bands. However, their musicianship and skill is lackluster at best.True, but musicianship and skill do not equal songwriting ability, Nirvana being the best example of this.

True, but musicianship and skill do not equal songwriting ability, Nirvana being the best example of this.

Exactly. They had mediocre musicianship and even worse songwriting. I have yet to hear a Nirvana song that "wow"s me, they're all just so boring. And don't even MENTION Smells Like Teen Spirit.

You know what band is really missing from this list? AC/DC is also a big from down under. I don't care if it's Angus Young and they wrote Back In Black and Shook Me All Night Long. He's not a great guitarist and their songs all sound the same anyway.

Exactly. They had mediocre musicianship and even worse songwriting. I have yet to hear a Nirvana song that "wow"s me, they're all just so boring. And don't even MENTION Smells Like Teen Spirit.No, they had okay musicianship but unbeatable songwriting.

Another vote for U2....



Otherwise, imo, the only other bands that might actually deserve to be on that list are Elvis, Queen, Rolling Stones, and maybe the Beatles.


Zeppelin, Floyd, Sabbath, and The Doors are all outstanding and definitely worth every bit of the hype they receive. I don't really know a whole hell of a lot about Sabbath, but I have very thoroughly listened to Zeppelin, Floyd, and The Doors, and I dare say that their more obscure, less heard stuff was nothing but genius. Light years ahead of their time.

Exactly. They had mediocre musicianship and even worse songwriting. I have yet to hear a Nirvana song that "wow"s me, they're all just so boring. And don't even MENTION Smells Like Teen Spirit.

You know what band is really missing from this list? AC/DC is also a big from down under. I don't care if it's Angus Young and they wrote Back In Black and Shook Me All Night Long. He's not a great guitarist and their songs all sound the same anyway.


Several Events Happen...
1. Dies Inside
2.Shows message to dad
3. Dad goes and gets Ak-47 from sock drawer and starts car heading for home of Siriusa.
4. Losses all faith in NSG general forever
5. Feels so dead inside that even his beloved (and sexy) friend cant give him enough kisses to feel better.
6. Said beloved and sexy friend offers blowjob and all is well again :D

Classical music is not Rock, and therefore does not fit your classification. Similarly, most folk has an entirely different etymology (sp?) from Rock'N'Roll. Death Metal, which splits its influences between Early Metal (which had Beatles Influences) and Horror Punk (which comes from Punk, which took a great deal of influence from harder Beatles songs) should be apparent.

Let me stop ya right there, if I may...

See, Im a musician myself, I play guitar and sing, and write songs and all that happy crap.
Its becuase I do these things that Ive learned much about music.

First off, classical ,music and rock are very, very similar. They both use much of the exact same chords, and use the same measures.
That is to say, 4/4, and 3/4 time.
Often, the only difference is that rock music uses distortion, and other effects.
The only real difference, is that rock music is really classical music, stripped down to three or four instruments.

Performance wise, the two are extremely similar.
Just like in the days Wagner and the like, showmanship was as much of a part of the show as the music was. Wagner constructed a giant bass that took two people to play, and shook the building when it hit low notes.


Folk music is rock, just played a little softer.
Same chords, same modes.
Think of Dylans version of "All along the Watchtower" and then think of Hendrix's.

Its not what you play, its how you play it.

No, they had okay musicianship but unbeatable songwriting.

Agreed. :)

Let me stop ya right there, if I may...

See, Im a musician myself, I play guitar and sing, and write songs and all that happy crap.
Its becuase I do these things that Ive learned much about music.

First off, classical ,music and rock are very, very similar. They both use much of the exact same chords, and use the same measures.
That is to say, 4/4, and 3/4 time.
Often, the only difference is that rock music uses distortion, and other effects.
The only real difference, is that rock music is really classical music, stripped down to three or four instruments.

Performance wise, the two are extremely similar.
Just like in the days Wagner and the like, showmanship was as much of a part of the show as the music was. Wagner constructed a giant bass that took two people to play, and shook the building when it hit low notes.


Folk music is rock, just played a little softer.
Same chords, same modes.
Think of Dylans version of "All along the Watchtower" and then think of Hendrix's.

Its not what you play, its how you play it.


As a classical and rock musician, I can tell you that you are looking at the issue far too broadly to really do justice to the issue. Yes, most western music shares core scales, and the vast majority of accessible music is in 4/4, but A) that doesn't really adress the issue of descent, which is what I was adressing and B) it ignores the large differences between scale, focus, and presentation in all three forms of music.

And Dylan, for all of his successes, is more of a crossover between rock and folk than a pure folk artist. I would point to Seeger, Ochs, PPM, or Stan Rogers for a more accurate look at what folk is.

I have a better idea, why don't you stop flaming and mentally masturbating, read that I don't hate all of these bands, not instantly assume "Stairway to Heaven" is the only thing I've listened to (I've listened to Coda and Zoso, one of which admittedly does have "Stairway to Heaven" on it.) and become more tolerant of other's musical tastes. What you just yelled at me for is the equivalent of yelling at someone for putting "Abortion is murder" on a poll asking your opinion on abortion, even if that person says they're pro-choice.

Coda is their worst, it's a bunch of outtakes. And I don't get into their fourth album that much. Start with their first album for some raw, hard hitting blues rock and see how you like that.

Zeppelin, Floyd, Sabbath, and The Doors are all outstanding and definitely worth every bit of the hype they receive.

QFT.



I don't really know a whole hell of a lot about Sabbath,

If you like the other bands you mentioned, you owe it to yourself to check out the first, and frankly, best heavy metal band ever to play.

First, check out thier best albums.
Volume 4.
Sabotage
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath

Then, check out the rest of the Ozzy stuff. 1970-79.
The first three albums are also great, and in these albums you will find the birth of heavy metal. These albums contain the songs we all know, Iron Man, Paraniod, War Pigs, and others, but its the later albums that show the bands
true creative genuis.

The last two albums, "Technical Ecstacy" and "Never Say Die" are different.
Techincal is still a good album, and contains a couple of songs that may qualify for the bands "Opus".
"Gypsy" and "Dirty Women".
"All Moving Parts (stand still)" is also a great song.
The rest of the album is decent, with the exception of "Shes Gone", wich is a really depressing song.

"Never Say Die" contains two really good songs. "Never Say Die", and "Shockwave". "Juniors Eyes", "Johnny Blade", and "Swinging the Chain" are pretty good, and "Air Dance" is a haunting little number.
The rest of it kinda sucks.

If you like that stuff, then check out the Dio stuff.
"Heaven and Hell" and "Mob Rules" are both very good, but, sound very "80's metal" if you know what I mean.
If you grew up with that stuff, you'll love it, or if you have developed an appreciation for it.
"Dehumanizer" is okay, too. I prefer the Ozzy stuff, but most Sabbath fans who prefer the Dio stuff like this one.

Ignore everything else they did.

If it doesnt have Ozzy or Dio, dont waste your time.
Even "Born Again" with Ian Gillan.

Why are Sabbath so great, and why can they never be underrated?

Becuase its only been in the last 15 years that Sabbath has begun to recieve the accolades that they deserve.
The critics and radio stations HATED them for years.
They tore apart every person in that band, and called them every name in the book having something to do with being untalented. Even Iommi.

Ask any metal musician, and they'll tell you:

Every single metal band that comes out, owes thier sound to Black Sabbath.

"You can arrange a song differently, so it doesnt copy them directly, but if its Metal, Sabbath already did it"
-Rob Zombie.

As a classical and rock musician, I can tell you that you are looking at the issue far too broadly to really do justice to the issue. Yes, most western music shares core scales, and the vast majority of accessible music is in 4/4, but A) that doesn't really adress the issue of descent, which is what I was adressing and B) it ignores the large differences between scale, focus, and presentation in all three forms of music.

And Dylan, for all of his successes, is more of a crossover between rock and folk than a pure folk artist. I would point to Seeger, Ochs, PPM, or Stan Rogers for a more accurate look at what folk is.


Then maybe you've noticed that the lightning fast picking styles of Bluegrass, and Speed metal are almost exactly alike, with the hammer-ons, bends and pull-offs?

Or maybe you know that songs like Bouree in E Minor all use minor chords, like many, many metal songs?

The differences are awfully small.

I'll give you presentation, however, its all about presentation.

And as for Dylan, it doesnt matter what classificaton you give him, the point was his song.
The two versions sound vastly different, even if the same chords are being played.
This goes rather against your point of Folk and rock being different.

Or maybe you'd like to use another Folk Rock artist, say Joan Baez..
Ever hear Judas Preists version of Diamonds and Rust?

Or maybe youve heard of "Me First and the Gimme Gimmes", and punk band that does nothing but covers from different genres?

Once again....its not what you play, its how you play it.

Then maybe you've noticed that the lightning fast picking styles of Bluegrass, and Speed metal are almost exactly alike, with the hammer-ons, bends and pull-offs?

Or maybe you know that songs like Bouree in E Minor all use minor chords, like many, many metal songs?

The differences are awfully small.

I'll give you presentation, however, its all about presentation.

And as for Dylan, it doesnt matter what classificaton you give him, the point was his song.
The two versions sound vastly different, even if the same chords are being played.
This goes rather against your point of Folk and rock being different.

Or maybe you'd like to use another Folk Rock artist, say Joan Baez..
Ever hear Judas Preists version of Diamonds and Rust?

Or maybe youve heard of "Me First and the Gimme Gimmes", and punk band that does nothing but covers from different genres?

Once again....its not what you play, its how you play it.

The core melodic constructs of a classical piece are significantly more complex than in rock'n'roll. In Rock, there are not nearly so many different versions of melodic progression. With the exception of certain kinds of progressive, variations on a tune are rare.

However, I beleive we are talking past one another. I was, in the post you origionally quoted, merely arguing that it was irrational to expect the Beatles to impact classical or folk music, since both predated the Beatles, and used a different method of presentation. I will not argue that all western music does not share a number of traits, if that is what you thought I was saying.

The core melodic constructs of a classical piece are significantly more complex than in rock'n'roll. In Rock, there are not nearly so many different versions of melodic progression. With the exception of certain kinds of progressive, variations on a tune are rare.

I think this very much depends on what you consider Rock N Roll.
If by that you mean Chuck Berry, then I would certainly agree.
If we include bands known for thier intricate playing, say Yes, or many "Power Metal" bands like Yngvie Malmsteen, etc..then the difference isnt as great as you intend.

Your average rock band doesnt play intricately woven chord progressions, no.
Usually we get the "3 chord wonders" in many popular music styles.
But becuase the generic term "rock" can cover so many styles, I dont think your statement is true.
I would agree to "most of the time".


However, I beleive we are talking past one another. I was, in the post you origionally quoted, merely arguing that it was irrational to expect the Beatles to impact classical or folk music, since both predated the Beatles, and used a different method of presentation. I will not argue that all western music does not share a number of traits, if that is what you thought I was saying.

Ahh.
Indeed, thats what I believed you meant.

True, but you also just assumed I had only heard a select few songs, and you also claimed I said I disliked the Doors. I do not (To be honest, I haven't heard enough of them to hate them. They just sprung to mind as a staying-power band.)

Well, Coda and Zoso/Untitled/IV aren't the best representatives of Led Zeppelin. With all respects, listen to I if you like blues, and make sure you listen to II, III, Houses of the Holy, and Physical Graffiti. You're missing an excellent portion of classic rock there.

And I guess I was arguing the Doors even being on the list more than anything. Listen to them a little more, I recommend getting Riders on the Storm, Not To Touch The Earth, The Unknown Soldier, and of course The End. (The songs, of course. Getting your hands on the individual albums is a little hard with The Doors).

I don't trust NSGs music taste at all.

er... I actually like most of the bands on here... so I'll just leave now.

I like all of those bands... but then again I'm a radio DJ and I kind of HAVE to.
But I don't know anybody else that has Black Sabbath, Tenacious D, The Beatles, Slipknot, and Simon and Garfuncle on their favorites list on thier music player.

I don't trust NSGs music taste at all.

Well, we think Fallout Boy sucks, that should count for something.


Also it was people on NSG who pointed me towards Send More Paramedics, System of a Down, Sex Pistols, and Iron Maiden, which means most of them have good taste in music.

As I stated before, I would try to do one of these once in a while, I said weekly but it's a little late. Today's version: Worst Band With "Staying Power" meaning that is has survived since the '60s, '70s, or '80s.


I'm leaning towards Led Zeppelin.

OFFICIAL NSG MUSIC PANTHEON OF SHAME!
Nickelback: Worst Alternative Band

I still think these threads are trolling :eek:

Well, we think Fallout Boy sucks, that should count for something.


Also it was people on NSG who pointed me towards Send More Paramedics, System of a Down, Sex Pistols, and Iron Maiden, which means most of them have good taste in music.

That deserves not much more then a meh. Most of the musical opinions of NSG are limited to heavy metal fanboy bias.

That deserves not much more then a meh. Most of the musical opinions of NSG are limited to heavy metal fanboy bias.

Hear hear! This man speaks nothing but the truth.

(The songs, of course. Getting your hands on the individual albums is a little hard with The Doors).

Not at all. I have them all on CD and am building up my vinyl collection.

Not at all. I have them all on CD and am building up my vinyl collection.

I guess it all depends on your method of acquisition.

That deserves not much more then a meh. Most of the musical opinions of NSG are limited to heavy metal fanboy bias.
Yeah, it's awesome. Every other forum seems to be filled with pretentious kids espousing their washed out "indie" music.


I guess it all depends on your method of acquisition.

They're even easier to download, if that's what you're hinting at...

Yeah, it's awesome. Every other forum seems to be filled with pretentious kids espousing their washed out "indie" music.
..

If you are implying that I am in any way an "indie" kid, you are mistaken.

Yeah, it's awesome. Every other forum seems to be filled with pretentious kids espousing their washed out "indie" music.



They're even easier to download, if that's what you're hinting at...

I guess I fail at the internets, because Limewire never has the entire album, and I can never find a torrent with the right albums either.

Guns n' Roses and Metallica are also horribly overrated. And Slayer just takes the cake - they've got probably some of the snobbiest and most annoying fans out there, right up with Led Zeppelin and AC/DC, only Slayer REALLY sucks.

And Eric Clapton is pretty overrated too. Like Hendrix, too many people are unwilling to get their heads out of the ground and realize that there's better music out there.

Guns n' Roses and Metallica are also horribly overrated. And Slayer just takes the cake - they've got probably some of the snobbiest and most annoying fans out there, right up with Led Zeppelin and AC/DC, only Slayer REALLY sucks.

And Eric Clapton is pretty overrated too. Like Hendrix, too many people are unwilling to get their heads out of the ground and realize that there's better music out there.So, now that you've slagged a bunch of bands, why don't you give us some examples of bands that you would say are good?

So, now that you've slagged a bunch of bands, why don't you give us some examples of bands that you would say are good?

Because it's too much fun to just annoy everyone.

But still, here's one: The Lord Weird Slough Feg

So, now that you've slagged a bunch of bands, why don't you give us some examples of bands that you would say are good?

Oh god, is he one of those guys who thinks everything other then classical music sucks? I hope not...

If you are implying that I am in any way an "indie" kid, you are mistaken.

Wasn't my intention. But any internet forum where music gets discussed tends to fall into one of those two camps.

(In order to prevent myself backtracking through the thread - what do you listen to?)

I guess I fail at the internets, because Limewire never has the entire album, and I can never find a torrent with the right albums either.

Use Soulseek. Really good for full albums (and especially rare ones - you could probably find the two post-Morrison Doors albums on it, but I can't say i've tried)

Oh god, is he one of those guys who thinks everything other then classical music sucks? I hope not...

Beethoven FTW!

Beethoven FTW!

Nooooooooooooooooo


Seriously though, I don't mind a little classical music, but I can't stand people who act like all musical styles from after, say, 1900 suck.

Nooooooooooooooooo


Seriously though, I don't mind a little classical music, but I can't stand people who act like all musical styles from after, say, 1900 suck.

Shush shush.

lol I'm only kidding.

I've always wanted to see a band (besides the Trans-Siberian Orchastra, http://www.techsupportforum.com/images/smilies/3-sick2.gif) play classical music with just a drummer, a guitarist, and a bassist.

(In order to prevent myself backtracking through the thread - what do you listen to?)


I'm gonna be really lame and say practiacally everything. ;)

Although I play guitar in a funk band and used to play in a psychodellic rock band. I also produce music for a dance/dnb group. Yeah I like to boast :cool:

Nooooooooooooooooo


Seriously though, I don't mind a little classical music, but I can't stand people who act like all musical styles from after, say, 1900 suck.

You mean the elderly?

I'm going to admit that I like every band on that list, except the Rolling Stones and AMA.

You mean the elderly?


No. I mean people who only like classical music.

No. I mean people who only like classical music.

Oh the elderly then ;) /jk

I'm torn between the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. It's impossible to choose between the former's uninspired pop-ish bullshit and the latter's complete lack of talent.

Eh, I'll go with the Stones. At least the Beatles influenced later, better bands.

I'm going to admit that I like every band on that list, except the Rolling Stones and AMA.

And I even like the Stones pre-1979 or so. They've destroyed all the good will they built up in their early years in the nearly thirty years of crap they've produced in the intervening years.

Led Zeplin are good and elvis sucks

Led Zeplin are good and elvis sucks

I have never heard of this Led Zeplin. Who are they?

Old band. The sang songs like the immagrint song (the aaaah ahhhhhh one) and the stairway to heaven. To name a fewer better known ones. Arent my favourite band but they dont suck.
On the other hand I don't understand why people think elvis is so great.

From Mindless Self Indulgence - I hate Jimmy Page

"please, please play the whole damn song
a 2 minute song is just 1:59 seconds too long

i hate jimmy page
kick us faggots off the stage
bite the future and fuck the past
cause my whole shit will never last "

I gotta say... I agree. I hate Led Zeppelin. It's only made worse by the fact that the idiots I had to work with in the kitchen ALWAYS listened to it... and they never let me play my own music... which they referred to as techno church music.

Plebeians.

From Mindless Self Indulgence - I hate Jimmy Page

"please, please play the whole damn song
a 2 minute song is just 1:59 seconds too long

i hate jimmy page
kick us faggots off the stage
bite the future and fuck the past
cause my whole shit will never last "

I gotta say... I agree. I hate Led Zeppelin. It's only made worse by the fact that the idiots I had to work with in the kitchen ALWAYS listened to it... and they never let me play my own music... which they referred to as techno church music.

Plebeians.
That was incredibly unintelligible.

From Mindless Self Indulgence - I hate Jimmy Page

"please, please play the whole damn song
a 2 minute song is just 1:59 seconds too long

i hate jimmy page
kick us faggots off the stage
bite the future and fuck the past
cause my whole shit will never last "

I gotta say... I agree. I hate Led Zeppelin. It's only made worse by the fact that the idiots I had to work with in the kitchen ALWAYS listened to it... and they never let me play my own music... which they referred to as techno church music.

Plebeians.

I recommend figuring out the most offensive thing (to them) you could say about their music (Nirvana fans-"Ooo...Look at me! I'm a rich white rock star! No one understands me...", etc)

From Mindless Self Indulgence - I hate Jimmy Page

"please, please play the whole damn song
a 2 minute song is just 1:59 seconds too long

i hate jimmy page
kick us faggots off the stage
bite the future and fuck the past
cause my whole shit will never last "

I gotta say... I agree. I hate Led Zeppelin. It's only made worse by the fact that the idiots I had to work with in the kitchen ALWAYS listened to it... and they never let me play my own music... which they referred to as techno church music.

Plebeians.

Techno... Church music? O_o

Do tell?

Techno... Church music? O_o

Do tell?

If I remember right, I was playing Fischerspooner's CDs, #1, and Odyssey.

I also played some MSI, and they said that every song sounded the same.

The constant classic rock was part of the reason I left that job while swearing at the bartender.

Old band. The sang songs like the immagrint song (the aaaah ahhhhhh one) and the stairway to heaven. To name a fewer better known ones. Arent my favourite band but they dont suck.
On the other hand I don't understand why people think elvis is so great.

Oh I see. You mean Led Zeppelin. I was confused for a moment.

Oh god, is he one of those guys who thinks everything other then classical music sucks? I hope not...No, but...

Because it's too much fun to just annoy everyone.

But still, here's one: The Lord Weird Slough FegZe does seem to be the type who think a band sucks once they sell more than 5,000 albums.

No, but...

Ze does seem to be the type who think a band sucks once they sell more than 5,000 albums.

No, I'm just cynical and annoying :p

I'm torn between the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. It's impossible to choose between the former's uninspired pop-ish bullshit and the latter's complete lack of talent.

Eh, I'll go with the Stones. At least the Beatles influenced later, better bands.

wow.

Thats perhaps the most articulate buffoonery Ive read concerning either band.

Completely, and utterly incorrect on every count, but still articulate.

honesly? Elvie.1
`

Black Sabbath deserves highly to be on that list. Pink Floyd does not.

I disagree completely. Black Sabbath spawned my favorite genre. Pink Floyd's greatest achievement, on the other hand, is being constantly overplayed on the radio.

I used to really like them. But now I absolutely hate that band with a fiery passion, the intensity of which burns hotter than a thousand suns.

After I voted, I have to admit I kinda wished I had voted Elvis though. I can't stand his music.

The core melodic constructs of a classical piece are significantly more complex than in rock'n'roll. In Rock, there are not nearly so many different versions of melodic progression. With the exception of certain kinds of progressive, variations on a tune are rare.

However, I beleive we are talking past one another. I was, in the post you origionally quoted, merely arguing that it was irrational to expect the Beatles to impact classical or folk music, since both predated the Beatles, and used a different method of presentation. I will not argue that all western music does not share a number of traits, if that is what you thought I was saying.

Depends what kind of "rock" music you're talking about. Some that's out there is becoming more like classical and less like pop all the time. With many of the lesser known subgenres, such things as the whole 'verse-chorus' pattern have been all but completely abandoned.

I disagree completely. Black Sabbath spawned my favorite genre. Pink Floyd's greatest achievement, on the other hand, is being constantly overplayed on the radio.

Well, there is the whole "Englands foremost pyschedelic band" thing...
Not to mention being one of the top-selling acts of all time...
The massive influence on multiple genres...
Most experimental pop groups owe thier sound to what Pink Floyd did...
Anyone whos ever done a "concept album"...
Anyone whos ever made the visual aspects as much of a part of thier live shows as the music, owes that directly to Floyd.

Shall we talk about Syd Barret imitators?
David Bowie
Alice Cooper
T-Rex
Robert Smith
Marilyn Manson....etc...

Floyd accomplished much more than simply being overplayed.

Ze does seem to be the type who think a band sucks once they sell more than 5,000 albums.

I beleive that everyone in the world should buy an album with under 5000 sales. Primarily, mine. :p

Pretentious types like that cover my recording fees, fool! :P

Well, there is the whole "Englands foremost pyschedelic band" thing...
Not to mention being one of the top-selling acts of all time...
The massive influence on multiple genres...
Most experimental pop groups owe thier sound to what Pink Floyd did...
Anyone whos ever done a "concept album"...
Anyone whos ever made the visual aspects as much of a part of thier live shows as the music, owes that directly to Floyd.

Shall we talk about Syd Barret imitators?
David Bowie
Alice Cooper
T-Rex
Robert Smith
Marilyn Manson....etc...

Floyd accomplished much more than simply being overplayed.

This is music. Everything involved is an opinion. I didn't even like the bands that copied Pink Floyd when I liked Floyd themselves. Now that I hate Floyd, obviously, anything they've done is pretty meaningless to me.

Oh, and concept albums existed before Floyd.

This is music. Everything involved is an opinion. I didn't even like the bands that copied Pink Floyd when I liked Floyd themselves. Now that I hate Floyd, obviously, anything they've done is pretty meaningless to me.


And why exactly do you hate them?


Oh, and concept albums existed before Floyd.

Name one other than "Pet Sounds" or "Sgt Peppers".

No, I'm just cynical and annoying :pIs there a particular reason that you're cynical?

The Beatles, what the hey...?! That's not right.

Voted Rolling Stones.

And why exactly do you hate them?
After 8 million or so times hearing them, shit just gets hella old. Also, for some reason, with stuff lots of people really like, if I don't think it's anything more than decent to start with, I have this tendency to start to start really resenting and hating it. This is the case with Pink Floyd. Also with a lot of popular bands much newer.


Name one other than "Pet Sounds" or "Sgt Peppers".[/QUOTE]

Tommy

Leningrad

The Planets

Practically every fucking Opera and every Musical that's ever been done.