NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/26/clinic.bomb/index.html

It didn't go off, but it could have. I've never understood those who decide to bomb abortion clinics. Makes more sense to get rid of abortion through the law and legal means rather than murdering people, no?

I think, at the very least, it would be better if pro-choice and pro-life people could just have their own little ideological enclaves and close them off to each other. Then, there wouldn't be nearly as much tension as there is now.

I'd hoped we had seen the last of these. Its been several years now since the last one.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/26/clinic.bomb/index.html

It didn't go off, but it could have. I've never understood those who decide to bomb abortion clinics. Makes more sense to get rid of abortion through the law and legally means rather than murdering people, no?

But by the twisted logic of these... persons, the doctors who perform abortions are murdering innocent babies, so by the 'whole eye for an eye' logic, they have not only the right, but the obligation to go out and kill these doctors.

Yay, run on sentences!

its a form of terrorism. its not possible to get abortion outlawed in the short run (and probably not in the long run either). if they can scare women into not going to an abortion clinic for fear of her life, its the same as getting it outlawed.

No religion is exempt from the practice of hypocrisy.too bad Fanatics never got that memo. :rolleyes:

Not with these nut jobs. They view it as justified since "they are killing babies in there"

My other favorite is listening to some "Christian" wanker start explaining that it's not right and ends with a "but" and goes about explaining the reason for the violence.

No religion is exempt from the practice of hypocrisy.

Isn't the patriot act supposed to stop this? ;)

It probably did.. until wiretappings and other stuff were deemed illegal and stopped. :p

its a form of terrorism. its not possible to get abortion outlawed in the short run (and probably not in the long run either). if they can scare women into not going to an abortion clinic for fear of her life, its the same as getting it outlawed.

Isn't the patriot act supposed to stop this? ;)

:rolleyes: nah it only stops terriorism that the government dosn't approve of

I'd hoped we had seen the last of these. Its been several years now since the last one.

Years? (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/arsons.asp) Oh, no. This still happens on a regular basis. And if you count the 554 anthrax scares in the months after Sept 2001, then you have an even greater incidence of attack.

its a form of terrorism. its not possible to get abortion outlawed in the short run (and probably not in the long run either). if they can scare women into not going to an abortion clinic for fear of her life, its the same as getting it outlawed.

And yet it rarely gets called terrorism in the media. Wonder why that is?

And yet it rarely gets called terrorism in the media. Wonder why that is?

Ammm....is it because the media don't want to be bombed?

And yet it rarely gets called terrorism in the media. Wonder why that is?

dunno, those that I hear about do get called Terrorism.

but then again, it could just be our local news writers. :)

Ammm....is it because the media don't want to be bombed?Personally? I think it's because abortion clinic bombers aren't the right religion. But that's just me.

Isn't the patriot act supposed to stop this? ;)

we'll see what happens when they find the person who planted it.

it should be interesting.

we'll see what happens when they find the person who planted it.

it should be interesting.

Judge: Abortion Clinic Bomb Plotter Not a Terrorist
A federal judge in Florida ruled yesterday that a Christian fundamentalist who plotted to fire bomb abortion clinics, gay bars and liberal churches should not be considered a terrorist. The judge sentenced the man to just five years in prison. The prosecution had asked the judge to sentence Stephen John Jordi, a former Army Ranger, to seven to 10 years. In February Jordi plead guilty to attempted arson of an abortion clinic. The man had told an informant that he had plans to carry out a string of bombings over the next 30 to 40 years. On the day of his arrest he was carrying gasoline cans, flares, starter fluid and propane tanks.

There's precedence

Hadn't read that story. Do you have a link perchance? I'd like to read more on it, because that decision strikes me as, well, insane.

yet another time I agree with Nazz. :)

There's precedence

Hadn't read that story. Do you have a link perchance? I'd like to read more on it, because that decision strikes me as, well, insane.

Hadn't read that story. Do you have a link perchance? I'd like to read more on it, because that decision strikes me as, well, insane.

Here (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/09/144222) - you may be able to dig up further information googling the name etc

Also, you can read this (http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/9/19/3328/99097), FBI simply doesn't care to view anti-abortion bombing as terrorism since....can you guess?

How "pro-life" of them.

And yet it rarely gets called terrorism in the media. Wonder why that is?

cause then we'd have to confront the fact that the only serious terror threat in the country comes fro crazy fucking white people

cause then we'd have to confront the fact that the only serious terror threat in the country comes fro crazy fucking white people

rAmen, brethren and sistren! Until the first WTC bombing, every major act of terrorism in this country was committed by bugshit crazy white boys. Despite initial reports of Arab men speeding away, Oklahoma City? White boy. The Olympic bombing? White boy.

Here (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/09/144222) - you may be able to dig up further information googling the name etc

Also, you can read this (http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/9/19/3328/99097), FBI simply doesn't care to view anti-abortion bombing as terrorism since....can you guess?

Sigh.

Sigh.

Get's boring doesn't it

Get's boring doesn't it
Boring? No. Depressing as hell though.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/26/clinic.bomb/index.html

It didn't go off, but it could have. I've never understood those who decide to bomb abortion clinics. Makes more sense to get rid of abortion through the law and legal means rather than murdering people, no?


I think we need to start stopping and inspecting people of the christian faith, to stop further terrorist attacks from being planned, or carried out at some point.

Boring? No. Depressing as hell though.

Fair enough :)

Absolutely abhorrent. I hope they catch the nutcase who did it.

I think we need to start stopping and inspecting people of the christian faith, to stop further terrorist attacks from being planned, or carried out at some point.

I am all for that plan.

I think we need to start stopping and inspecting people of the christian faith, to stop further terrorist attacks from being planned, or carried out at some point.


Now THERE'S an utterly ridiculous and irresponsible post. I hope that was sarcasm.

Now THERE'S an utterly ridiculous and irresponsible post. I hope that was sarcasm.
Is it? I seem to remember hearing all sorts of people suggesting just that kind of treatment for Muslims. If it's good enough for them...

I am all for that plan.

:)

Now THERE'S an utterly ridiculous and irresponsible post. I hope that was sarcasm.

Well, if Christians have nothing to hide, then they should be okay with being checked! Christians are trying to destroy the constitution. Blowing up abortion clinics takes rights away from women, and thats not right.

Is it? I seem to remember hearing all sorts of people suggesting just that kind of treatment for Muslims. If it's good enough for them...

Exactly, and I am a christian myself, so its not like i have an anti christian bias. :)

Is it? I seem to remember hearing all sorts of people suggesting just that kind of treatment for Muslims. If it's good enough for them...

Indeed. I seem to recall someone talking about racial profiling: If we can pull over young black men because statistically they're more likely to commit violent crimes, police should be able to pull over middle-aged white men because they're more likely to commit white-collar crimes. And, as redwulf pointed out, more likely to commit acts of terrorism on US soil. Sauce for the goose, etc...

rAmen, brethren and sistren! Until the first WTC bombing, every major act of terrorism in this country was committed by bugshit crazy white boys. Despite initial reports of Arab men speeding away, Oklahoma City? White boy. The Olympic bombing? White boy.

well, there were a bunch by various revolutionary nationalists, like the bla and bpa too. but the major threat since the 80s has been white fascists of various stripes.

Indeed. I seem to recall someone talking about racial profiling: If we can pull over young black men because statistically they're more likely to commit violent crimes, police should be able to pull over middle-aged white men because they're more likely to commit white-collar crimes. And, as redwulf pointed out, more likely to commit acts of terrorism on US soil. Sauce for the goose, etc...

I think that was DK.

:)



Well, if Christians have nothing to hide, then they should be okay with being checked! Christians are trying to destroy the constitution. Blowing up abortion clinics takes rights away from women, and thats not right.



Exactly, and I am a christian myself, so its not like i have an anti christian bias. :)

count me in also.

I just had a thought... I wonder how Phred Phelps and the Westboro Batshit Church would be viewed if the Government started doing this...

*hmmmmmm*

Those maniacs...

I still remember vacationing in the North Carolina mountains when the FBI was hunting Rudolf or whoever he was.

Indeed. I seem to recall someone talking about racial profiling: If we can pull over young black men because statistically they're more likely to commit violent crimes, police should be able to pull over middle-aged white men because they're more likely to commit white-collar crimes. And, as redwulf pointed out, more likely to commit acts of terrorism on US soil. Sauce for the goose, etc...
And Rednecks pulled over just in case they're drunk, beating their wives, or blowing up abortion clinics.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/26/clinic.bomb/index.html

It didn't go off, but it could have. I've never understood those who decide to bomb abortion clinics. Makes more sense to get rid of abortion through the law and legal means rather than murdering people, no?

Imagine if that bomb had been set by a post-office. Or a daycare center. Or a bank.

We'd be flooded with major media outlets screaming about a NEW TERRORIST ATTACK!!!!

The right-wing pundits would be climbing over each other to identify which group of foreign terrorists were clearly behind it!

Terror alert status would increase! A BOMB!!! TERRORIST ATTACK!!!

But, of course, nobody actually refers to it as "terrorism" when terrorist attacks are perpetrated against women's health clinics. That's "pro-life."

Imagine if that bomb had been set by a post-office. Or a daycare center. Or a bank.

We'd be flooded with major media outlets screaming about a NEW TERRORIST ATTACK!!!!

The right-wing pundits would be climbing over each other to identify which group of foreign terrorists were clearly behind it!

Terror alert status would increase! A BOMB!!! TERRORIST ATTACK!!!

But, of course, nobody actually refers to it as "terrorism" when terrorist attacks are perpetrated against women's health clinics. That's "pro-life."

i wonder what would happen if extremist opponents of abortion that happened to be muslim planted a bomb at a clinic...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/26/clinic.bomb/index.html

It didn't go off, but it could have. I've never understood those who decide to bomb abortion clinics. Makes more sense to get rid of abortion through the law and legal means rather than murdering people, no?

Makes the most sense to MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS AND LEAVE ABORTION TO WOMEN AND DOCTORS!!!

Men have no say.

i bet they don't get sent to guantanamo.

i wonder what would happen if extremist opponents of abortion that happened to be muslim planted a bomb at a clinic...
They'd get a medal and conservapundits would be apologizing to the Muslim community.

It is terrorism. The point is to instill fear that will prevent people from using their rights.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/26/clinic.bomb/index.html

It didn't go off, but it could have. I've never understood those who decide to bomb abortion clinics. Makes more sense to get rid of abortion through the law and legal means rather than murdering people, no?

You would think so, being that they are proclaiming "Right to life" yet trying to take the lives of others

Hypocrites

And yet it rarely gets called terrorism in the media. Wonder why that is?

There is no question in my mind that it IS terrorism. I dont even feel there is any gray area.

I dont understand people that are so hardcore pro-life, that they can justify killing someone in the name of their cause.

And with a bomb for crying out loud? One of the most indescriminate,uncontrollable,unreliable ways to deal with your intended target?
The odds you'll hurt and damage more than your intended target are much greater than not.
I am totally against people using violence to combat it. But-it almost makes the nuts that shoot at OB/GYN doctors that practice abortions look more sane. Dont misunderstand-I'm not justifying that by any means whatsoever.

I dont agree with abortion in general. I dont however,feel any need to inflict my opinion of it on others. I limit my opinion to my own situation.

These pro life people would be serving a better purpose if they used their energy and passion to maybe open a counseling center/hotline/website that pregnant women could VOLUNTARILY CHOSE to investigate and the pro lifers could then peacefully try to help that woman deal with the reasons she thought abortion was her only choice.

In the end,I feel its the woman's choice. I think all the energy used to intimidate or terrorize would be better spent showing reasonable alternatives or another way out. It would bring more positive attention to the Pro Life cause.
And-if that doesnt work-like I said-its the woman's choice.

You really have to wonder how stupid a person has to be to think that bombing an abortion clinic will achieve anything other than getting them arrested and making pro-lifers look bad.

I don't really understand why people approve of abortion. I mean, it is exactly the same as murder, and you don't hear many people condoning that. I agree that is wrong to bomb abortion clinics, I think the old habit of chaining oneself to the door was much better. People go on about pro-choice, but I never read the part in the constitution that says people have a right to kill others.

You really have to wonder how stupid a person has to be to think that bombing an abortion clinic will achieve anything other than getting them arrested and making pro-lifers look bad.

And I really dont think it STOPS any intended abortions. It likely only delays them a little.

It may kill persons involved in performing abortions.

But-it can just as likely kill anyone there that might be there for a routine check-up or anything else,completely unrelated to abortions.

It could kill the mailman, a copy machine repair man or ANYONE. Thats the point-its an insane way to try to accomplish a goal.

Pro life can be reasonable and legitimate. The cause should be strictly limited to positive action only- Support,information,counseling,education.

Its fucking "PRO-LIFE" after all.

I'd have more respect for the title if there werent these loons vandalizing and terrorizing people. I'm sure the loons are a small percentage and that the majority are involved in peaceful methods of the cause.

I don't really understand why people approve of abortion. I mean, it is exactly the same as murder, and you don't hear many people condoning that. I agree that is wrong to bomb abortion clinics, I think the old habit of chaining oneself to the door was much better. People go on about pro-choice, but I never read the part in the constitution that says people have a right to kill others.

Ah, the abortion debate begins. Looks like my cue to exit.

You really have to wonder how stupid a person has to be to think that bombing an abortion clinic will achieve anything other than getting them arrested and making pro-lifers look bad.
Sad thing is, it does achieve what they want...it scares women away.

I worked at a clinic that received threats all the time. A popular tactic was to leave an empty, unmarked box on the doorstep of the clinic. You better believe that we were scared by those, even after a dozen times. You never knew when it might be for real.

But it pissed off the bomb squad and made them want to stop coming. It made community leaders start bitching about how much money had to be spent sending police and bomb squads to our clinic, and how the community shouldn't have to pay for the fact that we chose to be "baby killers" (we weren't, we actually didn't provide abortions at all, but never mind little things like fact...).

And every time one of these fake bombs was left on our doorstep, we had canceled appointments. Women stayed away. Women didn't want to risk being blown up so they could get their contraception or their pelvic or their consult. Women didn't want to bring their kids to a place that was getting bomb threats (and yes, a great many of our patients had their kids with them when they came in for consults about contraception or abortion options).

The fact that this domestic terrorism is not taken seriously has a huge impact on women's health. Free clinics like the one I volunteered at are often the only places that low-income women can get the health care they need, yet our media and our government continue to look the other way while these facilities are terrorized.

Sad thing is, it does achieve what they want...it scares women away.

I worked at a clinic that received threats all the time. A popular tactic was to leave an empty, unmarked box on the doorstep of the clinic. You better believe that we were scared by those, even after a dozen times. You never knew when it might be for real.

But it pissed off the bomb squad and made them want to stop coming. It made community leaders start bitching about how much money had to be spent sending police and bomb squads to our clinic, and how the community shouldn't have to pay for the fact that we chose to be "baby killers" (we weren't, we actually didn't provide abortions at all, but never mind little things like fact...).

And every time one of these fake bombs was left on our doorstep, we had canceled appointments. Women stayed away. Women didn't want to risk being blown up so they could get their contraception or their pelvic or their consult. Women didn't want to bring their kids to a place that was getting bomb threats (and yes, a great many of our patients had their kids with them when they came in for consults about contraception or abortion options).

The fact that this domestic terrorism is not taken seriously has a huge impact on women's health. Free clinics like the one I volunteered at are often the only places that low-income women can get the health care they need, yet our media and our government continue to look the other way while these facilities are terrorized.

Sometimes America really does come off as an awful hell hole of a place to live.

Sad thing is, it does achieve what they want...it scares women away.

I worked at a clinic that received threats all the time. A popular tactic was to leave an empty, unmarked box on the doorstep of the clinic. You better believe that we were scared by those, even after a dozen times. You never knew when it might be for real.

But it pissed off the bomb squad and made them want to stop coming. It made community leaders start bitching about how much money had to be spent sending police and bomb squads to our clinic, and how the community shouldn't have to pay for the fact that we chose to be "baby killers" (we weren't, we actually didn't provide abortions at all, but never mind little things like fact...).

And every time one of these fake bombs was left on our doorstep, we had canceled appointments. Women stayed away. Women didn't want to risk being blown up so they could get their contraception or their pelvic or their consult. Women didn't want to bring their kids to a place that was getting bomb threats (and yes, a great many of our patients had their kids with them when they came in for consults about contraception or abortion options).

The fact that this domestic terrorism is not taken seriously has a huge impact on women's health. Free clinics like the one I volunteered at are often the only places that low-income women can get the health care they need, yet our media and our government continue to look the other way while these facilities are terrorized.


As someone with first-hand experience at a clinic that was terrorized-Do you think the terrorism actually STOPPED abortions, or did it just stop them at your place?
In my opinion, I would guess that the persons that were going to go to your place wound up going somehwere else.

Its more likely the terrorism at your place had an impact on OB/GYN health of patients there for other more routine things-exams,etc...


I'm not arguing with what you said- just asking if my opinions are close to the mark?

As someone with first-hand experience at a clinic that was terrorized-Do you think the terrorism actually STOPPED abortions, or did it just stop them at your place?

Given that our clinic didn't provide abortions in the first place, I doubt a single abortion was stopped by these acts of terrorism.

I know, for a fact, that women who were pregnant delayed getting medical care for themselves and their growing fetus. I know, for a fact, that infants remained sick for a few extra days because their mothers didn't feel safe bringing them to the only free clinic in town. I know, for a fact, that people went without contraception because they were too scared to come get it from us, and I'm willing to bet that at least one unwanted pregnancy resulted from this.

I'd even be willing to bet that, if anything, the number of abortions sought by women in our area INCREASED as a result of the "pro-life" terrorism. Their behavior probably increased the number of women who could not effectively prevent getting pregnant in the first place, and made it seem a lot more hostile a world for pregnant women to live in. Their bomb threats and harassment basically made it harder for women to prevent pregnancy, and much harder for women to live with pregnancy once they got knocked up.


In my opinion, I would guess that the persons that were going to go to your place wound up going somehwere else.

Its more likely the terrorism at your place had an impact on OB/GYN health of patients there for other more routine things-exams,etc...

Yep. Most women who came to our clinic were coming for reproductive health care like pelvics, breast exams, and prenatal care (like ultrasounds, nutrition consults, etc).

And yet it rarely gets called terrorism in the media. Wonder why that is?

I think the diffrence here is that it is more targetted than terrorism. Terrorism is designed to create fear in the civilian population that will in turn put pressure on governments. These acts however destroy something specific that they believe is commiting a specific act of evil. It would be more akin to an Islamic Suicide bomber blowing up an American base in Iraq than it is a blowing up a shopping centre.

I think the diffrence here is that it is more targetted than terrorism. Terrorism is designed to create fear in the civilian population that will in turn put pressure on governments.
And that is precisely what these attacks do. They put fear in the civilian population, and it is intended to, in turn, pressure the government.

Terrorism is designed to create fear in the civilian population that will in turn put pressure on governments.

That sounds like the idea behind bombing an abortion clinic, scare women out of going there, force them to be shut down.

Yep.

It's not about "protecting unborn babies" or any of that crap, because it actually does the opposite. It is EXCLUSIVELY about scaring women who dare to seek legal medical care as if they had the right or something, and is specifically intended to make legal medical procedures unavailable to the public through fear and intimidation.

That and the chance to kill or injure some ebul baby killing doctors.

That sounds like the idea behind bombing an abortion clinic, scare women out of going there, force them to be shut down.
Yep.

It's not about "protecting unborn babies" or any of that crap, because it actually does the opposite. It is EXCLUSIVELY about scaring women who dare to seek legal medical care as if they had the right or something, and is specifically intended to make legal medical procedures unavailable to the public through fear and intimidation.

That sounds like the idea behind bombing an abortion clinic, scare women out of going there, force them to be shut down.

I think its less complex than that. Its more about simply destroying what is causing the offence. That is a useful byproduct but (in the case of real bombs) thats not what it is. In the case of fake bombs I agree thats terrorism.

I think its less complex than that. Its more about simply destroying what is causing the offence. That is a useful byproduct but (in the case of real bombs) thats not what it is. In the case of fake bombs I agree thats terrorism.
Bullshit.

The terror is the PRIMARY aim of both the bombs and the fake bombs. The added bonus is killing and/or injuring doctors and women who dare to believe in the right to choose, and hopefully destroying some property in the process.

Seriously, the MAIN aim of these people is terror. They want to use violence and fear to shut down the right to choose.

Sometimes America really does come off as an awful hell hole of a place to live.

The acts of stupidity,hate and desperation make up an extremely small fraction of a percent. Day to day life for most of us is very good,for the most part.

When a Democrat gets elected again the FBI will start treating these bombings as terrorism again. Only under Bush it stopped happening, because, well, Bush supports that kind of thing.

The acts of stupidity,hate and desperation make up an extremely small fraction of a percent. Day to day life for most of us is very good,for the most part.

No doubt, otherwise everyone would have left years ago.

Given that our clinic didn't provide abortions in the first place, I doubt a single abortion was stopped by these acts of terrorism.

I know, for a fact, that women who were pregnant delayed getting medical care for themselves and their growing fetus. I know, for a fact, that infants remained sick for a few extra days because their mothers didn't feel safe bringing them to the only free clinic in town. I know, for a fact, that people went without contraception because they were too scared to come get it from us, and I'm willing to bet that at least one unwanted pregnancy resulted from this.

I'd even be willing to bet that, if anything, the number of abortions sought by women in our area INCREASED as a result of the "pro-life" terrorism. Their behavior probably increased the number of women who could not effectively prevent getting pregnant in the first place, and made it seem a lot more hostile a world for pregnant women to live in. Their bomb threats and harassment basically made it harder for women to prevent pregnancy, and much harder for women to live with pregnancy once they got knocked up.


Yep. Most women who came to our clinic were coming for reproductive health care like pelvics, breast exams, and prenatal care (like ultrasounds, nutrition consults, etc).


What a surprise then- insane acts of violent stupidity didnt even come close to accomplishing the lunatics goals.

Their message then could be interpretted as not Pro-Life, so much as "Anti Feminine Health."

Bullshit.

The terror is the PRIMARY aim of both the bombs and the fake bombs. The added bonus is killing and/or injuring doctors and women who dare to believe in the right to choose, and hopefully destroying some property in the process.

Seriously, the MAIN aim of these people is terror. They want to use violence and fear to shut down the right to choose.

Thats the impression I get- Violent and deranged people have latched onto an excuse to act this way. Like it justifys it somehow.

If there wasnt a Pro Life excuse, they would find some other reason to practice their hobby.

the anti-abortion terrorism campaign is extremely effective in stopping abortions.

the people terrorized are not so much the pregnant women (since its not all that likely that there will be a bomb at that clinic on that day) but the clinic workers--the doctors, nurses and others who provide the services.

they dont just bomb clinics, they publish the names and addresses of abortion doctors on webpages so that the nutcases know who to kill. they send threatening letters and make threatening phone calls. in some areas an abortion doctor has to be as brave as a medic in a war zone. they risk not only their own lives by the lives of their spouses and children. yes, even their children get death threats.

as fewer doctors are willing to put their families at risk (or just cant take the stress any more) those who remain suffer increased threats. the terrorists are emboldened by every judge who under charges these crimes, for every success in driving an abortion provider out of the area, for every asshole who celebrates these tactics.

they risk not only their own lives by the lives of their spouses and children. yes, even their children get death threats.

The doctors should send churches pictures of these same "people"'s children, spouses and so on, with the same threats. If the "pro-lifers" ever tried to put the law against the DOCTORS on it, they'd automatically be giving themselves up.

Think of all the unborn children that could've died!!! Oh wait.....never mind.

Why don't Pro-choice people terrorise the Pro-life people?
Or are there no nutcases in the Pro-choice group to do that?
And why can these people never see things in anything other than
THEM OR US?

Why can't people be reasonable, smoke pot, relax and stop killing each other?

Pro-choice is a more sensible position, one crazy people are less likely to take. Not to mention pro-life has the religious side to it, so they get the religious crazies too.

Why don't Pro-choice people terrorise the Pro-life people?
Or are there no nutcases in the Pro-choice group to do that?
And why can these people never see things in anything other than
THEM OR US?

Why can't people be reasonable, smoke pot, relax and stop killing each other?

the anti-abortion terrorism campaign is extremely effective in stopping abortions.

the people terrorized are not so much the pregnant women (since its not all that likely that there will be a bomb at that clinic on that day) but the clinic workers--the doctors, nurses and others who provide the services.

they dont just bomb clinics, they publish the names and addresses of abortion doctors on webpages so that the nutcases know who to kill. they send threatening letters and make threatening phone calls. in some areas an abortion doctor has to be as brave as a medic in a war zone. they risk not only their own lives by the lives of their spouses and children. yes, even their children get death threats.

as fewer doctors are willing to put their families at risk (or just cant take the stress any more) those who remain suffer increased threats. the terrorists are emboldened by every judge who under charges these crimes, for every success in driving an abortion provider out of the area, for every asshole who celebrates these tactics.


I can understand that more- the employees terrified to risk their lives-just working in an office. Its not worth it.

These crimes against clinics should be as vigorously pursued with the same intensity and resources as a bomb-or fake bomb- left at a shopping mall,courthouse or post office.

If they arent, its almost like agreeing the lives of the people there are less valuable than the lives of people at the other places.

Its terrorism-pure and simple. On top of that-its irrational,misguided and reckless and in my eyes, hurting the efforts of legitimate and peaceful Pro Life advocates.

When you hear "pro life" movement, now you think of wackos.

Sorta like what PETA has accomplished for animal rights people.

Why don't Pro-choice people terrorise the Pro-life people?
Or are there no nutcases in the Pro-choice group to do that?

Terrorism of this sort is completely consistent with the actual goals of the anti-choice movement. It accomplishes exactly what they want to accomplish: it helps control women, using fear and intimidation. Don't be fooled by the "pro-life" bullshit. People who are pro-choice ARE pro-life. People who are ANTI-ABORTION are anti-choice. That's it. They're not any more interested in life than anybody else is. They just are interested in removing choice. Terrorism works for that.

On the other hand, if you are pro-choice then terrorism against people who don't want abortions simply doesn't work to achieve your goal, because your goal isn't to remove choices or to force people to do things based on fear. You CAN'T terrorize people into free choice! :P

Stupid, terrorist morons.

Apparently, murder is only wrong if you're still a fetus.

Does anyone on either side think these ideological differences are truly reconciliable, at least given the current state of affairs?

I mean, it is exactly the same as murder,
Murder. Noun. The unlawful killing of a human being.

Let's see. Abortion is legal, it's not murder. Embryos and fetuses aren't beings, as they lack functioning brains. Hell, embryos arguably aren't even alive. In short, abortion fails to be murder on almost every single word of the definition of murder.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/26/clinic.bomb/index.html

It didn't go off, but it could have. I've never understood those who decide to bomb abortion clinics. Makes more sense to get rid of abortion through the law and legal means rather than murdering people, no?

No shit Sherlock :rolleyes:

Does anyone on either side think these ideological differences are truly reconciliable, at least given the current state of affairs?

No. I think there are always going to be issues of this sort because there will always be those people who feel it is not only proper, but necessary, to impose their opinions on the actions of others. And there will always be those who rebel against that concept to fight against them. The only real question at any point of time is which group is ascendant.

I think, at the very least, it would be better if pro-choice and pro-life people could just have their own little ideological enclaves and close them off to each other. Then, there wouldn't be nearly as much tension as there is now.:rolleyes:
All fine and dandy for the men, but where does that leave a woman born in one of the anti-choice zones? That's like having 'free states' and 'slave states.' Each of us should be an 'ideological enclave' with the choice to have an abortion or not. Thats not just limited to legalizing the procedure for rich white women who can afford it. It's about every woman's right to decide whether to reproduce or not. No more forced sterilization/ abortion, and open access to voluntary birth control and abortions for all.

I'd hoped we had seen the last of these. Its been several years now since the last one.


Enh. Wrong. There was one on September 11th, 2006. Well, it wasn't an abortion clinic, but the guy thought it was, so it probably counts.

Can anyone assist me with a link? I'm afraid I don't have one, but I remember reading about it on here.

Does anyone on either side think these ideological differences are truly reconciliable, at least given the current state of affairs?
Yep. Advocate a swift kick in the nuts for any man who is against abortion, so he doesn't accidentally impregnate anyone. I think that'd reconcile things damn quick.

Yep. Advocate a swift kick in the nuts for any man who is against abortion, so he doesn't accidentally impregnate anyone. I think that'd reconcile things damn quick.

And I assume we outlaw women who are against abortion from getting abortions, right?

Also, does the name of this thread sound like some kind of punk rock band to anyone else?

Also, does the name of this thread sound like some kind of punk rock band to anyone else?

Maybe an album title, but yeah :p

Also, does the name of this thread sound like some kind of punk rock band to anyone else?

well, we do have The Plot to Blow Up the Eiffel Tower and This Bike is a Pipebomb

Maybe an album title, but yeah :p

Man, that would be an awesome live performance.

Lead Singer (I decree him to have a stage name of Joey Molotov):Hey guys, it's a pleasure to be in Texas, and we're Bomb at an Abortion Clinic!
Crowd: YEAAAAHHH!!!!
Joey Molotov (To guitarist): Does the crowd seem to be yelling more then usual?
Guitarist (Name: Steal this Guitarist): Pay it no mind.
Bassist (Stalingrad Slayer): Hold on...he's right...
Drummer (Lucifer Falwell-Robertson): Umm...
Crowd: LET'S SEE IT!!!
Joey Molotov: Oh...I get it...
Lucifer Falwell-Robertson: Oh...jesus...
Stalingrad Slayer: Oh fuck...
Steal this Guitarist: I don't ge-....Oh...
Lucifer Falwell-Robertson: Time to go. Now.
Steal this Guitarist: Yeah...
Joey Molotov: It's a pleasure to be leaving Texas at upwards of 120 miles per hour...

Enh. Wrong. There was one on September 11th, 2006. Well, it wasn't an abortion clinic, but the guy thought it was, so it probably counts.

Can anyone assist me with a link? I'm afraid I don't have one, but I remember reading about it on here.

It's on this thread. Page 3 I think.

What a surprise then- insane acts of violent stupidity didnt even come close to accomplishing the lunatics goals.
Just like all terrorists of all varieties. Terrorism is, without doubt, the craziest and stupidest thing a person can choose to do. I know of no instance in which acts of terrorism ever won the day for any cause. From this I conclude that these bombers don't even care about the cause they claim to be fighting for. All they care about is the havoc they can cause with their stupid fucking boxes full of fertilizer and white powders. Terrorism is little more than an extreme ego trip, in my opinion.

Thats the impression I get- Violent and deranged people have latched onto an excuse to act this way. Like it justifys it somehow.

If there wasnt a Pro Life excuse, they would find some other reason to practice their hobby.
Exactly, and again, exactly the same as all other terrorists in the world. They should all be treated the same.

All Life is sacred. ANybody who believes otherwise will have to die! :mad:


:D

All Life is sacred. ANybody who believes otherwise will have to die! :mad:


:D

Except, of course, violent criminals.

I know of no instance in which acts of terrorism ever won the day for any cause.
Well, terrorism resulted in slave armies' lives becoming exponentially better in various places thousands of years ago.

And if you want another example, terrorism resulted in an extreme downturn in an act known as "annoying the Hashishin".

Except, of course, violent criminals.

It's also important to mention that the right to life is more important than a woman's right to control her own body, but it is not as important as the right of a corpse to keep it's viable organs. *nod*

Priorities. *nod*

It's also important to mention that the right to life is more important than a woman's right to control her own body, but it is not as important as the right of a corpse to keep it's viable organs. *nod*

Priorities. *nod*

I am of the opinion that such contradictory priorities should cause such conflict in the heads of those who hold them that their heads should explode.

Barring that, cleaning their heads with fire works. =p

Well, terrorism resulted in slave armies' lives becoming exponentially better in various places thousands of years ago.

And if you want another example, terrorism resulted in an extreme downturn in an act known as "annoying the Hashishin".We're also forgetting the terrorism that is habitually practiced by the FBI and the CIA.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/26/clinic.bomb/index.html

It didn't go off, but it could have. I've never understood those who decide to bomb abortion clinics. Makes more sense to get rid of abortion through the law and legal means rather than murdering people, no?

I wonder how many unborn babies would have been killed if that had gone off... only, along with their mothers as well. Pro-lifers for the win!

Nice work, guys! Thinking with your nuts! Next, go invent chocolate kettles...

I wonder how many unborn babies would have been killed if that had gone off... only, along with their mothers as well. Pro-lifers for the win!

Nice work, guys! Thinking with your nuts! Next, go invent chocolate kettles...

Excuse me, I have a message for you. Their nuts are threatening a defamation of character lawsuit. They said THEY wanted to get laid.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/26/clinic.bomb/index.html

It didn't go off, but it could have. I've never understood those who decide to bomb abortion clinics.

It's not understanding they need, it's locking up. That's what we do with terrorists, isn't it?

It's not understanding they need, it's locking up. That's what we do with terrorists, isn't it?

Are you trying to tell me that Christians can commit terrorism? Sounds like some kinda commie fag plot to me.

Are you trying to tell me that Christians can commit terrorism? Sounds like some kinda commie fag plot to me.

Anyone can be a terrorist. Any creed, race or religion can give rise to extremists who think random killing and inducing terror in others by the sheer randomness of their acts is either going to make their enemies give up, or inspire their friends to rise up in a wave of violence and somehow win.

The only way to tell a terrorist is by how they dress. Look for exotic headgear, sunglasses they've owned since 1979, bizarre facial hair or a club foot. You need to look carefully, though, because terrorists are masters of disguise as well. It may be something as insignificant as a dodgy wedding ring or yellow argyle socks. But you can pick them every time!

Well, terrorism resulted in slave armies' lives becoming exponentially better in various places thousands of years ago.

And if you want another example, terrorism resulted in an extreme downturn in an act known as "annoying the Hashishin".
I would greatly appreciate details, especially on the Hashishin thing.

We're also forgetting the terrorism that is habitually practiced by the FBI and the CIA.
But they never get any results either.

But they never get any results either.
Not true. They've managed to install US-friendly fascist regimes all over South America that had lasted for decades. They also managed to severely cripple people's movements in the US. And a turn of the century government sponsored terrorist campaign all but wiped out the IWW.

I'm not saying that this sort of thing works in the long long run, but it most certainly "gets results."

Not true. They've managed to install US-friendly fascist regimes all over South America that had lasted for decades. They also managed to severely cripple people's movements in the US. And a turn of the century government sponsored terrorist campaign all but wiped out the IWW.

I'm not saying that this sort of thing works in the long long run, but it most certainly "gets results."
Well, yes, and a significant number of people every Thanksgiving burn their houses down while trying to deep fry their turkeys. I guess they could call that "getting results" too.

I still maintain that terrorism accomplishes nothing. All terrorists are trying to control the outcomes of political events or political structures, yet I have never heard of any terrorist or terrorist group actually doing so for more than a few weeks at a time, while authorities responded to this or that rather spectacular bombing incident. All terrorists want this or that population to live in fear of them and obey their dictates, but I have never seen any population that did not, over time, simply absorb its terrorists into its notion of how life works and, thus, carry on with minimal change in daily affairs. I know of no political party that gained governmental power through terrorism, no political prisoners who have been freed by terrorism, no cause, legitimate or otherwise, that was advanced in public understanding by terrorism.

EDIT: Btw, technically, when the FBI/CIA does things that interfere with the lives/movements of US citizens, that's not "terrorism," but "tyranny."

Sometimes America really does come off as an awful hell hole of a place to live.

Meh, I got used to it pretty young. which is probably why I need mental health medication.

EDIT: Btw, technically, when the FBI/CIA does things that interfere with the lives/movements of US citizens, that's not "terrorism," but "tyranny."It is when they use terrorist tactics to impose tyranny.

As for more 'terrorism that gets results:'

Sons of Liberty.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/26/clinic.bomb/index.html

It didn't go off, but it could have. I've never understood those who decide to bomb abortion clinics. Makes more sense to get rid of abortion through the law and legal means rather than murdering people, no?

I hate people like that. They give honest, actual pro-lifers like myself a bad name.

I would greatly appreciate details, especially on the Hashishin thing.

Long story short on the slave army bit, a few thousand years ago is was popular for nations to have armies composed entirely of slaves. Eventually, they supplanted non-slave armies, as they were cheaper. Then the slaves realised that there were lots of them, and they had lots of weapons that they were trained in. So, they started killing any ruler who didn't give them what they want.

The Hashishin were a sect of Muslims. The word "assassin" comes from them. Like any small sect, they got persecuted. They managed to greatly reduce the persecution by training elite assassins, who would kill targets in broad daylight with as many people watching as possible. Anyone who persecuted the Hashishin were killed. And the Hashishin couldn't be destroyed by armies, since their base was in a mountain citadel that was nearly impregnable to attack. It wasn't until the Mongol invasion that it fell, and that was partially because the Mongols fielded armies in the hundreds of thousands.