NationStates Jolt Archive

I personally believe that they are. Specifically, I remember the normandy level in Medal of Honor, where you were riding on the boat to the beach, and you could look at the faces of your fellow soldiers, who all looked terribly nervous and scared, some of them looked sick, and one looked like he might throw up. Then the ship lands and all of them are killed by machine gun fire.

Tv and movies were once regarded as being less than art, as just being car chases and shootouts, but are now regarded (correctly, I believe) as a legitimate art form.

What do you think?

I would personally consider Ico for the Playstation a work of art.

Only PC games :p

Yes (note that there have been contests held for works of interactive fiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_Fiction_Competition) for quite some time), but I don't think FPS games are the best examples to prove your point.

in the way that movies and tv can be art, yes
in the way that good music and paintings are art, no
o and here are a few other vid games that are really good-
shadow of the colossus
devil may cry 3
rez- kinda
ico
(fear?)
ff12/10 (/ ff13v 13 both look good but they are not out yet so :X)
and to many more for me to list

Of course they are. Any video game can be an expression of art, regardless of genre...perhaps in the past era of Doom and other similiar games where stories were never told in any genre other than an RPG, people might have a case for video games not being an art form, but with the era of stories in any and all genres regardless of the gameply, I daresay we've got an artform on our hands. Consider Shadow of the Colossus, or ICO, or Metal Gear Solid III.

Yes, video games are an art form the same as music and other things. I have programmed flash games and those take hours of love and care to create. Isn't that what defines something as 'art' a person pouring their love and attention into something they beleive they can make great, and creating it with only thier mind, some tools, and thier own two hands to be shared with other people?

Anyone who's ever played Fable knows that the answer is yes.

No Offense but Fable was a terrible RPG...

After having zoned on Tetris, how could I not consider it art?

No Offense but Fable was a terrible RPG...

And there are plenty of horrible pieces of traditional art and music; what's your point?

Video gaming still needs time to be fully fleshed out, though...it's not accepted as an art form just yet, even though it most definitely qualifies.

And there are plenty of horrible pieces of traditional art and music; what's your point?

Video gaming still needs time to be fully fleshed out, though...it's not accepted as an art form just yet, even though it most definitely qualifies.

My point is Fable was a terrible RPG. Yes I have played it, yes I have played it all the way through, yes I was disapointed, and yes... I didn't really like it all that much. This mightbe the wrong thread to say that in but I couldn't help myself... perhaps I'll go make a Fable - Good or Bad thread?

Yes, art.

Glad some one finally mentioned some of the MGS series.

Okami - art.

Ico and Shadow - art.

Crash Bandicoot - Not so much.

Art, though, oh yes.

Sorry, but no. Not even Oblivion.

Ico was definitely an art form. I also think the Max Payne series and the Metal Gear series were particularly beautiful.

Being surrounded by computers and video games my whole life, and having tons of friends who love both, I can honestly say, yes, it is art.

I don't really see art in paintings or sculptures or drama, but in video games I do. The graphics alone are supposed to draw you into a world different from our own. To show the emotions of characters as each interaction passes by. When you play the game, you sometimes find yourself in the role of that character, genuinely caring for what their fate is. The music of it enhances emotion, sets the mood, and tells you of what you're about to face, or what your current situation is.

Yeah, it's about the most real form of art there is.

As an artist, let me say that art is not just about pretty pictures. There is a question of content as well, and games definitely have the potential to carry artistic content, but I don't think they are doing so yet. This may be because the people making them are still programmers, not artists.

Just yesterday, I was talking to another artist friend of mine about the potential of games/interactive programs to be a new medium for art and wondering when artists are going to get interested in it. When they do, I think we will start to see some pretty brain-bending shit flying around the interwebs. ;)

I am not computer savvy and don't know the first thing about programming. I think I need to correct that because I would be interested in this new medium. But it will be many years before I have mastered it enough to produce something that I think is worth showing to others. But a truly surrealist game (in the art sense, not the current pop-fad sense)? That would be so much fun to make.

As an artist, let me say that art is not just about pretty pictures. There is a question of content as well, and games definitely have the potential to carry artistic content, but I don't think they are doing so yet.

Hmm? I'd like to know what artistic content is, to begin with.

Sure. There are the rally high-falutin' games like Myst, and the really crunchy games like Torment and Fallout, and the mindless games like, well, most of them.

It's the same range of art as books or films.

Hmm? I'd like to know what artistic content is, to begin with.
In theory, for something to be art it must convey some truth about the human condition, or have some other higher value than simply looking pretty.
In practice, the words "Thomas Kinkade" and "artist" bring up almost 800,000 hits on Google (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22thomas+kinkade%22+%2Bartist&btnG=Search), so whatevs.
Sure, video games can be art, video games and reruns of The King of Queens and hilarious novelty mugs shaped like piles of feces. Hell, if I'm feeling extra generous later tonight I might even let particularly moving chain e-mails about the differences between Men and Women pass muster.

My answer is an emphatic yes.

Back two decades ago, my answer may have been different, equating it more with a form of entertainment. And while the primary purpose of video games are to entertain, the advances in computer, digital and graphical technology have risen video games to a status equal to that of movies.

The production of a good game not only involves legions of programmers to make the game fun and easy to play, but also has scores of artists, musicians, and writers to make the experience that much more engrosing. And today, we have voice actors which rival the skill of that of big name actors.

Today you can become as absorbed in a story within a video game as you would with a good book or movie, see artwork that you might find in a museum, and listen to tunes that get your blood pumping. All while controling the action on screen.

Now if they could only allow us to smell in video games...

I could go on and on.

Sure.

GAH!!! Why do people always sum things up so much simpler than I can?

Sure.

In theory, for something to be art it must convey some truth about the human condition, or have some other higher value than simply looking pretty.
In practice, the words "Thomas Kinkade" and "artist" bring up almost 800,000 hits on Google (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22thomas+kinkade%22+%2Bartist&btnG=Search), so whatevs.
Sure, video games can be art, video games and reruns of The King of Queens and hilarious novelty mugs shaped like piles of feces. Hell, if I'm feeling extra generous later tonight I might even let particularly moving chain e-mails about the differences between Men and Women pass muster.

That's what I thought.

I should add however, that like every art form, there are a few great games, a lot of good games, and tons and tones of shit(e).

Remember: at one point plays and novels couldn't be considered "art" or "literature." They were just entertainment.
Video games have a massive potential to be art and convey meaning.
I mean, in Devil May Cry, when Dante is standing over Trish's lifeless body, I found it incredibly moving. "Why did I have to be the one to fill your dark soul with light?" The whole Trish character embodies the concept of free will, the ability to be something different than what you were born.

Or Prince of Persia: The The Two Thrones, when The Prince realizes how immature he has been, trying to change the past and fix his mistakes. His realization is an important truth about accepting the consequences of your actions

Or how Kingdom Hearts is light, and how the light can overcome any darkness
(yes, I recognize these aren't that new at all, but I figured I might as well include spoiler tags, just in case.)

Sorry if that's not very coherent, I'm all burned out from writing a paper.

Yes, they are, but like any other artform they can be characterised by some wondrous and some awful examples. Baldur's Gate II is one game I'd consider a masterwork.

Baldur's Gate II is one game I'd consider a masterwork.

Indeed. :)

Yes they are, and so are my bowel movements.


:D

Yes they are, and so are my bowel movements.
But your bowel movements aren't nearly as fun to play with.

But your bowel movements aren't nearly as fun to play with.

You'd be surprised :)

yes they are. they can be more sophisticated than movies at times since they give you options making the story alot more complex although few have really taken that tot he limit yet. MAx PAynes Story beats most action movies in terms of deepness, and comedies for that matter too. maybe not dramas.

Of *course* they are an art form. Or can be. They are built not just on programming, but visual art, creative writing, music composition and moving images. Whether it's "legitimate" or not, well, who cares?

As an artist, let me say that art is not just about pretty pictures. There is a question of content as well, and games definitely have the potential to carry artistic content, but I don't think they are doing so yet. This may be because the people making them are still programmers, not artists.

Quite so. So far, most of them have been little more than platforms for entertainment, but there's no reason why they couldn't be so much more.

Indeed. :)

The entire Baldur's Gate saga was a masterwork.

Indeed they are.

They're not all very good, artistically, but then that's true of any art form.