NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/48e334ce-f355-11db-9845-000b5df10621.html

Just as I thought, since there is a formal market (as there are for sulfur dioxide credits, for instance), a lot of the "carbon offsets" that rich and famous people have been purchasing on the "informal" market are just bullshit.

Why, we should change the name to bullshit credits.

The FT investigation found:

■ Widespread instances of people and organisations buying worthless credits that do not yield any reductions in carbon emissions.

■ Industrial companies profiting from doing very little – or from gaining carbon credits on the basis of efficiency gains from which they have already benefited substantially.

■ Brokers providing services of questionable or no value.

■ A shortage of verification, making it difficult for buyers to assess the true value of carbon credits.

■ Companies and individuals being charged over the odds for the private purchase of European Union carbon permits that have plummeted in value because they do not result in emissions cuts.

Put simply, if the next famous person gets up and says, "I've bought carbon offsets to offset my extravagant lifestyle," ask them to prove where they got them. If they weren't from the formal carbon market, feel free to shit in your hand and fling it at them.

wait...it's the fault of buyers that there is "a shortage of verification, making it difficult for buyers to assess the true value of carbon credits" and that some companies are just scams?

do you ever try to make sense?

wait...it's the fault of buyers that there is "a shortage of verification, making it difficult for buyers to assess the true value of carbon credits" and that some companies are just scams?

do you ever try to make sense?

That's what I was wondering. I mean, the buyer has some responsibility--caveat emptor and all that--but it's more than a little ridiculous to blame them completely for taking what they think are reasonable steps.

That's what I was wondering. I mean, the buyer has some responsibility--caveat emptor and all that--but it's more than a little ridiculous to blame them completely for taking what they think are reasonable steps.

but like any consumer buying any other good, it is up to the consumer to do their own research when buying any product.

If Bob buys a lemon of a car due to his lack of research, it's not the car dealership's fault.

if it can be PROVEN that the dealership lied about the car, then it's fraud.

People selling a product or service has the right to name their price. even if that price is outragous, they can name $4 or $40. it's what the consumer wants to pay for that product or service.

unless one is talking about the Government REGULATING that price...

but like any consumer buying any other good, it is up to the consumer to do their own research when buying any product.

If Bob buys a lemon of a car due to his lack of research, it's not the car dealership's fault.

if it can be PROVEN that the dealership lied about the car, then it's fraud.

from the article:

Industry caught in carbon ‘smokescreen’
...
A Financial Times investigation has uncovered widespread failings in the new markets for greenhouse gases, suggesting some organisations are paying for emissions reductions that do not take place.

Others are meanwhile making big profits from carbon trading for very small expenditure and in some cases for clean-ups that they would have made anyway.
...
Francis Sullivan, environment adviser at HSBC, the UK’s biggest bank that went carbon-neutral in 2005, said he found “serious credibility concerns” in the offsetting market after evaluating it for several months.

“The police, the fraud squad and trading standards need to be looking into this. Otherwise people will lose faith in it,” he said.

but like any consumer buying any other good, it is up to the consumer to do their own research when buying any product.

If Bob buys a lemon of a car due to his lack of research, it's not the car dealership's fault.

if it can be PROVEN that the dealership lied about the car, then it's fraud.

People selling a product or service has the right to name their price. even if that price is outragous, they can name $4 or $40. it's what the consumer wants to pay for that product or service.

unless one is talking about the Government REGULATING that price...

This really isn't the same as buying a car. For starters, you don't have as many options when it comes to purchasing, and secondly, there's not as much information readily available when it comes to researching the industry. Again, I'm not saying that the people doing the purchasing are blameless here--I'm just suggesting that maybe the people perpetrating the fraud are a little more culpable than the OP seems to suggest they are.

I'm just suggesting that maybe the people perpetrating the fraud are a little more culpable than the OP seems to suggest they are.

yeah, more on the level his own article suggests perhaps.

yeah, more on the level his own article suggests perhaps.

I think that any public figure that says, "I'm covered by my carbon credits" has to make sure that they are real - not fraudulent.

I don't care how hard it is to prove it.

Otherwise, their claims that they are carbon neutral are complete bullshit.

This really isn't the same as buying a car. For starters, you don't have as many options when it comes to purchasing, and secondly, there's not as much information readily available when it comes to researching the industry. Again, I'm not saying that the people doing the purchasing are blameless here--I'm just suggesting that maybe the people perpetrating the fraud are a little more culpable than the OP seems to suggest they are.
true. they are not blameless, and they are also not wholly responsible either.

but what the OP mentioned was "Put simply, if the next famous person gets up and says, "I've bought carbon offsets to offset my extravagant lifestyle," ask them to prove where they got them. If they weren't from the formal carbon market, feel free to shit in your hand and fling it at them."

Basically targetting those pompus Hollywood asses that shove their lifestyle into your face and make like they are better than everyone else. Not everyday people who are trying to make the world better.

I'm still waiting for all those Hollywood asses who said that they would leave America should President Bush be elected. you know... the same ones who still live in Hollywood and said they would leave America if President Bush was Re-Elected. I believe they are still there...

If they cannot hold their promises, what would make me believe that they are actually buying Carbon Credits? and now, from a reliable source?

Politicians? I expect to lie. Now I can say the same for Actors and Actresses.

true. they are not blameless, and they are also not wholly responsible either.

but what the OP mentioned was "Put simply, if the next famous person gets up and says, "I've bought carbon offsets to offset my extravagant lifestyle," ask them to prove where they got them. If they weren't from the formal carbon market, feel free to shit in your hand and fling it at them."

Basically targetting those pompus Hollywood asses that shove their lifestyle into your face and make like they are better than everyone else. Not everyday people who are trying to make the world better.

I'm still waiting for all those Hollywood asses who said that they would leave America should President Bush be elected. you know... the same ones who still live in Hollywood and said they would leave America if President Bush was Re-Elected. I believe they are still there...

If they cannot hold their promises, what would make me believe that they are actually buying Carbon Credits? and now, from a reliable source?

Politicians? I expect to lie. Now I can say the same for Actors and Actresses.

All it tells you is that you should be careful which actors and actresses you place your belief in. Most of them are pretty stupid, and not worth listening to.

All it tells you is that you should be careful which actors and actresses you place your belief in. Most of them are pretty stupid, and not worth listening to.

Most of em? :p

Most of em? :p

I would imagine that some of them are not complete bullshitters.

I would imagine that some of them are not complete bullshitters.

to me... the ones who don't air their politics on Air, or don't try to sound pompus.

and yeah... that is a small group.

I think that any public figure that says, "I'm covered by my carbon credits" has to make sure that they are real - not fraudulent.

I don't care how hard it is to prove it.

Otherwise, their claims that they are carbon neutral are complete bullshit.

i agree. if rich bastards are going to preach environmental responsibility but live a wasteful life, they need to be SURE that they are offsetting their waste with this carbon credit crap.

i dont personally give them a pass on waste just because they pay someone else to not waste in their place but if its all just a sham, they need to shut the fuck up about other people's lives.