NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, now before you exit this thread, Ahh, don't click on "General" just yet. Now hear me out. With the recent Virgina Tech. shooting, one has to wonder why college campuses are leaving students and staff vulnerable. I mean for God sakes, the time between the two shootings was about two hours! So already in Virgina Tech we saw a serious security problem. Which is ironic since we now know that they had a bomb threat about a week before the shooting. So, when the main security forces fail, what do you do then? Fall back on the 2nd Amendment. I suggest that college campus should allow students to bring guns and store them in their dorms. If it's a handgun and the person has a CCW permit, then he should be allowed to carry the gun with him. Now, obviously we can see hundreds of guns just laying around without anything more to add, and that'll just create more problems. So I think that college campuses that allow guns, should also have the following guidelines.

1. Handguns/Shotguns/Rifles only. No Automatic rifles, snipers or machines guns.
2. Possession of gun should be reported to campus security.
3. All guns are to be properly stored in a case which can be locked by either a key or combo lock.
4. Guns are for self defense only!
5. Ammo to the guns are to also be locked in the case.
6. State and federal regulation regarding arms and ammos apply
7. Must have CCW permit to carry handgun on your person.
8. If you do not follow the rules, your gun will be confiscated, along with ammo, and you will be suspended/expelled from school.

When your main security forces fail, you must have a back up, and the back up will be arming the students and staff.

Any rifle can be a Sniper rifle.

Guns are not allowed nor should they be on campus or public building. Students with them should either suspended or expelled.

Guns are not allowed nor should they be on campus or public building. Students with them should either suspended or expelled.

Yea, but we've seen what happens when you leave students unarmed. It's like feeding sheeps to the lions.

Any rifle can be a Sniper rifle.

Not really. My .22 semi automatic only has a range of 1-2 miles. Sniper rifles are specifically designed to shoot from a very very far distance. I don't know how far a sniper rifle can shoot from, but trust me it's pretty damn far. Also the rounds are build to go further, than a normal round like the one I shoot with my .22 semi-automatic.

Not really. My .22 semi automatic only has a range of 1-2 miles. Sniper rifles are specifically designed to shoot from a very very far distance. I don't know how far a sniper rifle can shoot from, but trust me it's pretty damn far. Also the rounds are build to go further, than a normal round like the one I shoot with my .22 semi-automatic.

Ok then, what defines a Sniper Rifle?

Ok, now before you exit this thread, Ahh, don't click on "General" just yet. Now hear me out. With the recent Virgina Tech. shooting, one has to wonder why college campuses are leaving students and staff vulnerable. I mean for God sakes, the time between the two shootings was about two hours! So already in Virgina Tech we saw a serious security problem. Which is ironic since we now know that they had a bomb threat about a week before the shooting. So, when the main security forces fail, what do you do then? Fall back on the 2nd Amendment. I suggest that college campus should allow students to bring guns and store them in their dorms. If it's a handgun and the person has a CCW permit, then he should be allowed to carry the gun with him. Now, obviously we can see hundreds of guns just laying around without anything more to add, and that'll just create more problems. So I think that college campuses that allow guns, should also have the following guidelines.

1. Handguns/Shotguns/Rifles only. No Automatic rifles, snipers or machines guns.
2. Possession of gun should be reported to campus security.
3. All guns are to be properly stored in a case which can be locked by either a key or combo lock.
4. Guns are for self defense only!
5. Ammo to the guns are to also be locked in the case.
6. State and federal regulation regarding arms and ammos apply
7. Must have CCW permit to carry handgun on your person.
8. If you do not follow the rules, your gun will be confiscated, along with ammo, and you will be suspended/expelled from school.

When your main security forces fail, you must have a back up, and the back up will be arming the students and staff.
and how will that make a difference?

unless the gun cases are in the dorms and classrooms themselves.
then you run into the problem the British had in Africa. lots of ammo boxes, but only one screwdriver to open said boxes.

and if the students carry the guns around, try enforcing that before someone gets shot.

and what's preventing a student from registering one gun but keeping another hidden away?

better to just not have guns, put metal detectors in every doorway, have unscheduled searches of lockers and dorms. and anyone found in posession of a weapon is not only expelled, but submitted to Pyche eval.

and anyone who doesn't have Happy, puppy thoughts are submitted to pyche evaluation and treatment.

and anyone who tries to hide their dark non-happy puppy thoughts will be expelled and then submitted for psyche eval/treatment.

and all this will be controlled by a computerized system to reduce human error... and that computer will be called ALPHA-ONE.

remember... the computer is your friend. :D [/sarcasm and joke]

Yea, but we've seen what happens when you leave students unarmed. It's like feeding sheeps to the lions.



Maybe if they had better security and act faster after the first shooting this would have never happened. Also why was he allowed to buy a gun when he was flagged by the government as being a threat?

Ok then, what defines a Sniper Rifle?

For a rifle to be properly labled as a Sniper Rifle, it must have the following.

1. built for optimal levels of accuracy.
2. Telescopic sights
3. chambered for a military centrefire cartridge.

Let's look at the M40, which is a Sniper Rifle used by the Marines Corps.

Cartridge: 7.62 × 51 mm NATO
Caliber: 7.62 mm (.308 win)
Action: Bolt-action
Muzzle velocity: 2400 fps (feet per second0
Effective range: 1500 yards
Feed system: 5-round detachable box magazine
Sights: Unertl 10x telescopic sight with Mil-Dots and BDC (specially designed for USMC)

Pretty Impressive Piece of machinery.

Now on my .22 Semi Automatic, it isn't build for built for optimal levels of accuracy, I have a scope, but it isn't telescopic, and it isn't chambered for a military centrefire cartridge.

Maybe if they had better security and act faster after the first shooting this would have never happened. Also why was he allowed to buy a gun when he was flagged by the government as being a threat?

I may be wrong on this, but I didn't realize there was any laws barring insane people from having guns.

I may be wrong on this, but I didn't realize there was any laws barring insane people from having guns.



Thats why I asked why was he allowed to buy one.

Actually, the automatic rifles you're referring to are already banned in the US because they are considered "military weapons" and therefore not fit for civilian use.

However, banning guns doesn't stop gun violence. The two are not related.

Thats why I asked why was he allowed to buy one.

Actually two ...

Actually two ...

I know.



wilgrove fo check your PM's please.

Actually two ...

Same goes for the classification of an "assault rifle"

I'm sick of hearing people say that things like this wouldn't happen if everybody had a gun. If anything it can only happen more. It's a thick-headed quick fix that's concept needs to die as soon as possible.

Also as someone else might have pointed out.... when a murderer comes knocking they're not going to wait for you to get your gun out of a box and load the damn thing.

Maybe instead of forming a militia for when the security and police forces fail... some effort could be put into making sure that they don't fail again.

4. Guns are for self defense only!

That line might need a stronger definition.

Maybe if they had better security and act faster after the first shooting this would have never happened. Also why was he allowed to buy a gun when he was flagged by the government as being a threat?

The fact that someone like that. Who is well known to be like that.... is able to walk into a store and buy guns without arousing suspicion. The system failed.

I may be wrong on this, but I didn't realize there was any laws barring insane people from having guns.

There's your problem

The State of Virgina already has gun control laws, background check, check with State Police, FBI, etc. Age limitation, must be a legal resident, etc, and yet this still happens.

Face it, more guns regulation isn't going to fix the problem, we already have several and guess what, they failed. The phrase "When guns are outlawed, then only outlaw will have guns" rings true in this case.

VA Tech only had one line of defense against a psycho shooter that was on a shooting spree, and that line of defense failed. When your primary means of achieving an objective, you must have a secondary means, IE arm the students and staff. At least arm the staff.

And Wilgrove, I'm going to have to dissent from your OP. You said that the University should have locked down the whole campus after the shooting, citing the 2 hours between the first and second shooting.

This would have happened... IF they hadn't suspected it was an isolated incident, which they did. On another note, it's hard to alert those driving to campus to their classes because some have long commutes and others don't check their email as often as you or I may do. Some might have... Who knows? That might have helped save a few lives.

I would have been all for locking down the entire campus after the first shooting. However, the University had reason to suspect it was an isolated incident and carried on the way they did. Hindsight is 20/20.

Not really. My .22 semi automatic only has a range of 1-2 miles. Sniper rifles are specifically designed to shoot from a very very far distance. I don't know how far a sniper rifle can shoot from, but trust me it's pretty damn far. Also the rounds are build to go further, than a normal round like the one I shoot with my .22 semi-automatic.

Your .22 has a range of 2 miles?

Your .22 has a range of 2 miles?

Eh I really don't know how long it can shoot, I just heard 2 miles, I could be wrong. I'm just pointing out that a regular rifle and a sniper rifle are two completely different set of guns.

Eh I really don't know how long it can shoot, I just heard 2 miles, I could be wrong. I'm just pointing out that a regular rifle and a sniper rifle are two completely different set of guns.

It doesn't have a range of 2 miles. Not a .22.

And Wilgrove, I'm going to have to dissent from your OP. You said that the University should have locked down the whole campus after the shooting, citing the 2 hours between the first and second shooting.

This would have happened... IF they hadn't suspected it was an isolated incident, which they did. On another note, it's hard to alert those driving to campus to their classes because some have long commutes and others don't check their email as often as you or I may do. Some might have... Who knows? That might have helped save a few lives.

I would have been all for locking down the entire campus after the first shooting. However, the University had reason to suspect it was an isolated incident and carried on the way they did. Hindsight is 20/20.

I never said anything about locking down, I just said that security failed since there was a two hour gap between the shootings. Next time, actually read what I write instead of just glancing over it.

I never said anything about locking down, I just said that security failed since there was a two hour gap between the shootings. Next time, actually read what I write instead of just glancing over it.

Okay, I concede. No mention of lockdown. :p

Point still stands: the University did what it thought was best. Hindsight is still 20/20.

The record for the longest range sniper kill is about 1.5 miles

A sniper rifle is just a rifle used for sniping. Purpose-built sniper rifles are better, but you can still take your walmart-bought winchester .22 bolt action, put a 10x Leopold scope and use it as a sniper rifle just the same as you could take a M24 Sniper Weapons System and use it to hunt deer.

The State of Virgina already has gun control laws, background check, check with State Police, FBI, etc. Age limitation, must be a legal resident, etc, and yet this still happens.

The system failed. It happens. Arming people isn't going to fix the system.... if the system is broken and everyone is armed... sure it will save lives... but it won't save all of them... stop the crazy people with well-known morbid fascinations from just walking into a store and buying a gun... as opposed to arming everyone and letting them kill each other because while that will sort itself out it won't be pretty.

snip

This is a perfect example of "When you assume you make an ass out of u and me". E-mail is received too slowly for this sort of thing. And you should never assume something like "oh it's been a while since he killed people.... let's be lulled into a false sense of security"... whatever happened to the freaking huge amount of paranoia that the world has had that I've been complaining about?

This is a perfect example of "When you assume you make an ass out of u and me". E-mail is received too slowly for this sort of thing. And you should never assume something like "oh it's been a while since he killed people.... let's be lulled into a false sense of security"... whatever happened to the freaking huge amount of paranoia that the world has had that I've been complaining about?

No, actually the University thought that the shooting was an isolated incident...

The system failed. It happens. Arming people isn't going to fix the system.... if the system is broken and everyone is armed... sure it will save lives... but it won't save all of them... stop the crazy people with well-known morbid fascinations from just walking into a store and buying a gun... as opposed to arming everyone and letting them kill each other because while that will sort itself out it won't be pretty.


Sadly, when someone is determined to murder, or mass kill as we saw in V Tech, no amount of gun laws will work, no amount of psychological evaluation, care is going to work. Basically anything short of long term mental incarnation or getting to the person before he gets to you is the only option. Hopefully people will start to realize that more gun laws are not the answear, and neither is having a free for all. What we need is to get rid of "Gun free" areas which most college campuses are. Because well, let's face it, it doesn't work. Let the responsible gun owners like myself take our gun out in public (I have a handgun with CCW) so that we can protect ourselves, and protect the people around us. If a person is irresponsible with guns, then by all means, take their guns away, but don't punish the rest of us, because who knows, one day we may be depending on a gun owner to protect a roomful of students or workers from a determined psycho with a gun.

No, actually the University thought that the shooting was an isolated incident...

Exactly. They were wrong, they need to make sure that that never happens again.

Let the responsible gun owners like myself take our gun out in public so that we can protect ourselves, and protect the people around us..

When you say this, people think "GUN CULTURE!!!1!" but then you stick in

(I have a handgun with CCW)

Which then silences what I first said. :D

Exactly. They were wrong, they need to make sure that that never happens again.

And if it had been an isolated incident and 3 people were killed (assuming the gunman took his life afterwards?)

Like I said, Hindsight is 20/20.

Sadly, when someone is determined to murder, or mass kill as we saw in V Tech, no amount of gun laws will work, no amount of psychological evaluation, care is going to work. Basically anything short of long term mental incarnation or getting to the person before he gets to you is the only option. Hopefully people will start to realize that more gun laws are not the answear, and neither is having a free for all. What we need is to get rid of "Gun free" areas which most college campuses are. Because well, let's face it, it doesn't work. Let the responsible gun owners like myself take our gun out in public (I have a handgun with CCW) so that we can protect ourselves, and protect the people around us. If a person is irresponsible with guns, then by all means, take their guns away, but don't punish the rest of us, because who knows, one day we may be depending on a gun owner to protect a roomful of students or workers from a determined psycho with a gun.

The only problem with this that I see is, how do you plan on keeping it from degenerating to that extreme? Your plan is just as flawed as the laws you are trying to get rid of.

The only problem with this that I see is, how do you plan on keeping it from degenerating to that extreme? Your plan is just as flawed as the laws you are trying to get rid of.

So would I be correct to assume you think that more guns = more shootings?

The only problem with this that I see is, how do you plan on keeping it from degenerating to that extreme? Your plan is just as flawed as the laws you are trying to get rid of.

A. Any degenerates who buys guns illegally has plans to use them in the near future.

B. Let the responsible gun owner shoot the degenerates when he does use it.

Look, I live out in the country, hell police doesn't get to my house for about 30 minutes. So naturally my family is armed. I have a .22 semi automatic, a .12 gauge shotgun, and now a handgun. My dad also has a .12 gauge. One time, my dad was sleeping after his night shift, and he was alone. A punk ass robber tried to break in. 1. The dog was barking at him like crazy, which woke my dad up. When he hear the door open and close and some hushed talking, he took his .12 gauge out and loaded it up. (We always keep our guns and ammo separated when they're not in use. The only exception is when I take my handgun out into public with me, then the ammo is in, but on safe.) When the punks got to the back door which leads from the basement to the living room, they were face to face with the shotgun. They ran faster than the road runner.

I will have to be honest with you, I feel alot safer when I know other people are carrying arms, than when I am in a "gun free" zone. I really do because I know that other people are likely carrying guns, and if anyone tries anything stupid, not only I, but other gun owners will draw their piece out as well.

(We always keep our guns and ammo separated when they're not in use. The only exception is when I take my handgun out into public with me, then the ammo is in, but on safe.)

You know what's funny? A lot of gun deaths in the US happen because morons leave their guns loaded in storage and either some kid comes by and picks it up and plays with it or some deranged kid knows where it is and uses it.

Another scenario is where the parent is cleaning the gun while a round is in the chamber, the dipshits, but that's another story...

You know what's funny? A lot of gun deaths in the US happen because morons leave their guns loaded in storage and either some kid comes by and picks it up and plays with it or some deranged kid knows where it is and uses it.

Another scenario is where the parent is cleaning the gun while a round is in the chamber, the dipshits, but that's another story...

My family is very responsible with guns. We know that it can kill us, and we know the dangers. That why all three of my guns are locked up, ammo included. Ammos and guns are to be separated until ready to fire or in my handgun's case when I leave the house with it. (but the safety is on). When I clean my guns, I always make sure that the clip is out and there are no bullets in the barrel or in the chamber. Trust me, my dad has drilled me into knowing that guns are not a toy and are a great responsibility.