NationStates Jolt Archive

This is just a topic I have wondering for a while now what others opinions are. I guess it relates to suicide, but do you think that your life is yours to do as you want with it? Including forfeiting it if you wish? I personally agree that you can do what you want with your own life, but I spose the counter arguement mostly comes from a religious perspective, that we don't 'own' our lives/souls so to speak.

Opinions?

-poll coming up

My life is but a vessel for God's will, and I chose it to be that way.

I can do with it as I please...but I choose to live a good and long life because this is the only chance I get.

I choose not to kill myself because it would allow too many people to say they were right about me.

Of course you own yourself. The freedom to live or to die when we want, if we want is something we all should have. Anything less is either submitting to the tyranny of others or to the tyranny of nature, and both are cruel and dehumanizing no matter what way you look at it. A person should have the freedom to make that decision; of course, at the same time they should also realize that suicide will be very painful for many people they know, and it is not a decision that can be reversed.

This is just a topic I have wondering for a while now what others opinions are. I guess it relates to suicide, but do you think that your life is yours to do as you want with it? Including forfeiting it if you wish? I personally agree that you can do what you want with your own life, but I spose the counter arguement mostly comes from a religious perspective, that we don't 'own' our lives/souls so to speak.

Opinions?

-poll coming upin life, one person can touch many lives. To remove that life will affect alot of people... whether you know it or not. Killing yourself is not just you, but it also affects everyone who knows you.

and personally, I also believe in this...
My life is but a vessel for God's will, and I chose it to be that way.

This is just a topic I have wondering for a while now what others opinions are. I guess it relates to suicide, but do you think that your life is yours to do as you want with it? Including forfeiting it if you wish? I personally agree that you can do what you want with your own life, but I spose the counter arguement mostly comes from a religious perspective, that we don't 'own' our lives/souls so to speak.

Opinions?

-poll coming up

My life is mine to do with as I please.

That said, I view suicide as a cowards way out.

Take what life gives you...there are millions who have it worse.

I would say that the right to forfeit ones life is simply the inevitable conclusion of individuals rights and freedom. This may affect other people, intentionally or otherwise, but it is the choice of those people to feel as they do. If someone does not wish to continue their life, who are we to disagree?

Btw, I don't want to commit suicide, lol

That said, I view suicide as a cowards way out.

Courage tends to involve something worthwhile for which to fight.

If a person doesn't want to live, what worthy objective is accomplished by persisting?

If a person doesn't want to live, what worthy objective is accomplished by persisting?
Finding that reason to live.

if you stop life before you actually get to live it... you'll never know what the next day would hold for you.

Finding that reason to live.

Why should we assume that there is one? Why should we assume that it would supersede all the reasons not to? And why should we assume that this "reason" will be found without so much intervening pain and suffering that it is not worth it?

Indeed, if that's going to be your logic, maybe all people should kill themselves, lest they persist in life and find a reason that they should have done so years before.

Why should we assume that there is one? Why should we assume that it would supersede all the reasons not to? And why should we assume that this "reason" will be found without so much intervening pain and suffering that it is not worth it? same reasons to assume that there isn't a reason to live.

Indeed, if that's going to be your logic, maybe all people should kill themselves, lest they persist in life and find a reason that they should have done so years before. sorry, but your logic fails to tie in with what I said.

Yes but JuNii, living 'just to see what happens next' isn't exactly a great motivation for those don't wish to. I think what this comes down to is that we need to trust in peoples own individual decisions, no matter our opinions of them. That is the point I tried to make.

My life is mine to do with as I please.

That said, I view suicide as a cowards way out.

Take what life gives you...there are millions who have it worse.

I agree that your life is yours to do with what you please.

I also believe suicide is selfish because in order to do it a person has to be focused completely on him or herself, and not think about the people who will be hurt or suffer from the loss of that person's life.

However, altho it is both selfish and cowardly, I generally think that people who DO commit suicide are very sick. Most humans, hell most animals in general, are programmed with a very strong will to live. That's why we all have survival instincts. I don't think anyone who was healthy enough to realize that suicide was selfish or cowardly would be able to take their own life.

I also believe that God, or some Higher Power of Love operates through me, or at least i try to make that so. But again, I don't think God judges those who commit suicide (altho i know almost all religions say it is wrong) because those people are sick. That would be like God punishing you for coughing when you have a cold.

Personally, I don't EVER want to be in a place where suicide actually seems like a logical choice. There are so many special people in my life that I want to spend time with. But I will try to never judge someone else who does fall into that trap, because its not really them, it is a sickness.

How can we live in an individualistic society that enforces only the individual and their rights, with little thought, if any, to the community, and then call people 'selfish' when they make the ultimate individual choice.

I would say that the right to forfeit ones life is simply the inevitable conclusion of individuals rights and freedom. This may affect other people, intentionally or otherwise, but it is the choice of those people to feel as they do. If someone does not wish to continue their life, who are we to disagree?

Btw, I don't want to commit suicide, lol
It may be an inevitable conclusion, but it is a selfish act, that fails to take into consideration the people who it does affect. Of course these people cannot force the person to keep living, but that doesnt mean they shouldnt be taken into account by the person.

We should not judge the person, I agree, but again because I think to be at that point, someone has to be really sick. If the person were perfectly healthy mentally speaking and chose to end his life, it would be an incredibly selfish act, and that I would condemn. But I cant see how that could be possible.

Finding that reason to live.

if you stop life before you actually get to live it... you'll never know what the next day would hold for you.
Sometimes that is the point. People are to afraid, or tired, or whatever to wait and see what the next day holds. If one day is pure hell, the prospect of tomorrow being the same, or worse, the next week, month, or year being the same, makes someone NOT want to find out what is in store for tomorrow.

but I agree that sooner or later someone or something comes along to breathe life back into a person's existence.

How can we live in an individualistic society that enforces only the individual and their rights, with little thought, if any, to the community, and then call people 'selfish' when they make the ultimate individual choice.

We live in a society that glorifies violence, but then we condemn people for acting out violently.

This is just a topic I have wondering for a while now what others opinions are. I guess it relates to suicide, but do you think that your life is yours to do as you want with it? Including forfeiting it if you wish? I personally agree that you can do what you want with your own life, but I spose the counter arguement mostly comes from a religious perspective, that we don't 'own' our lives/souls so to speak.

Opinions?

-poll coming up

The "religous perspective" which you ambiguously define, does not reflect Christianity, as I have been taught each individual is expressly in control of thier lives, too exhibit thier own free will, too act with utter discretion so too speak. Personally I choose too be a servant of Christ, therefore I forefit my free will. This is done at my discretion.

As for suicide, does anybody else think this would be blasphemy? I'm a little skeptical of the "self-inflicted murder" theroy, (which is primarily taught by the more conservative of evangelicals) Thread coming, it'll be in General.

This is just a topic I have wondering for a while now what others opinions are. I guess it relates to suicide, but do you think that your life is yours to do as you want with it? Including forfeiting it if you wish? I personally agree that you can do what you want with your own life, but I spose the counter arguement mostly comes from a religious perspective, that we don't 'own' our lives/souls so to speak.

Opinions?

-poll coming up

My belief is that Allah swt has given me my life and it is not up to me to take it. What happens in my life is left up to God. He knows better than I.

I believe suicide should be a Capital crime.

I believe suicide should be a Capital crime.

Death sentence?

My believe is that Allah swt has given me my life and it is not up to me to take it. What happens in my life is left up to God. He knows better than I.

What happened to the old Soviestan?

I believe suicide should be a Capital crime.

How could you enforce that? What are you going to do? Shoot the body, or toss it in Prison?

For Muslims/Jews, I suppose burying them in a Pigskin would act as a deterrent, but otherwise...

This focus on rights misleads us.

It's not that we have a right to life, we simply live. Do we have a right to take our own life, it doesn't matter, we do so whether we have the 'right' or not.

If the person were perfectly healthy mentally speaking and chose to end his life, it would be an incredibly selfish act, and that I would condemn.

To persist living in a situation the person clearly cannot stand solely for the sake of avoiding pain to one's friends and family is definitely beyond the demands of any moral obligation.

But I cant see how that could be possible.

Why not?

Jesus Christ, do I really have to add sarcasm tags to everything I say?

:headbang:

Courage tends to involve something worthwhile for which to fight.

If a person doesn't want to live, what worthy objective is accomplished by persisting?

Perhaps no objective will be accomplished...

...that doesn't mean I don't think them a coward for taking the easy way out.

...that doesn't mean I don't think them a coward for taking the easy way out.

So we should always choose the hard way to do things, for no reason at all?

:rolleyes:

So we should always choose the hard way to do things, for no reason at all?

:rolleyes:

How is living life hard?

Even the worst off of those of us on NSG is better off than billions of people living today, so by what right can we claim that our lives are "hard"?

To persist living in a situation the person clearly cannot stand solely for the sake of avoiding pain to one's friends and family is definitely beyond the demands of any moral obligation.



Why not?
Modern medicine treats suicide as a mental health issue. Overwhelming or persistent suicidal thoughts are considered a medical emergency. Medical professionals advise that people who have expressed plans to kill themselves be encouraged to seek medical attention immediately.

If your problems are so overwhelming that you don't think you can deal with them, that you think ending your life is the better option, you are probably not well.

Jesus Christ, do I really have to add sarcasm tags to everything I say?

:headbang:

lol i thought it was really funny, and peoples sincere responses were even funnier

How is living life hard?

If living life isn't hard, doesn't that make living life the "easy way"?

Even the worst off of those of us on NSG is better off than billions of people living today,

Money can't buy happiness.

At best it can sedate the unhappy.

Sometimes that is the point. People are to afraid, or tired, or whatever to wait and see what the next day holds. If one day is pure hell, the prospect of tomorrow being the same, or worse, the next week, month, or year being the same, makes someone NOT want to find out what is in store for tomorrow.

but I agree that sooner or later someone or something comes along to breathe life back into a person's existence.
that is the sad truth.

but that doesn't justify suicide to me.

However, neither will I condemn anyone who does "check themselves out" early.

Jesus Christ, do I really have to add sarcasm tags to everything I say?

:headbang:

...


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....


yes... :p

Jesus Christ, do I really have to add sarcasm tags to everything I say?

:headbang:

That was Sarcasm!? [/sarcasm]

If your problems are so overwhelming that you don't think you can deal with them, that you think ending your life is the better option, you are probably not well.

"Probably," yes.

"Necessarily"... that's a whole different question.

How is living life hard?

Even the worst off of those of us on NSG is better off than billions of people living today, so by what right can we claim that our lives are "hard"?

Life is hard. But there is a difference between hard and unbearable. And what is hard for some is unbearable for others.

I like comparing life's hardships to heat. 115 degrees F heat index is nearly unbearable. I've felt it. But I can't really describe it to you. You can't understand it, unless you've felt it. And really, I can't even understand it now. But that doesn't mean that 90 degrees F isn't still hot. It may not be as hot, and even tho we can say there is a 25 degree difference, the two are sort of incomparable. Someone in 90 degree weather doesn't want air conditioning any less than someone in 115 degree weather.

I'm not sure if that comparison makes any sense to anyone but me.

If living life isn't hard, doesn't that make living life the "easy way"?

Suicide is used by many as a means to escape their problems, real or percieved. It's "easier" to kill oneself than to face those problems.

Those problems are rarely, if ever, so difficult to overcome as to require such a "solution".

Money can't buy happiness.

At best it can sedate the unhappy.

I wasn't really speaking of money, nor of happiness.

I'm not a particularly happy person, but I'm not about to kill myself just because things aren't as good as they could be...they could be a hell of a lot worse.

I could be an bonded laborer in India, a refugee in Darfur, or a gold-miner in Brazil...their life is infinitely harder than anything you or I will likely experience, and you don't see them killing themselves off in droves because their life is shit.

If people in such situations can tough it out, so can I...and so can anyone else.

Suicide has more than one aspect to me.
On the one hand, it is freedom. I can decide about when I want to die, if I choose to make that decision. I personally regard it as something equal to a human right in a way. It's a way to preserve one's dignity, it's a way out if things do get unbearable (and while, yes, there will always be millions who have it worse than oneself, that says nothing whatsoever about the individual's decision on how much he/she can or cannot bear).

On the other hand, it is the single most selfish thing a person can do. As was pointed out before, a person's life is not led in isolation, it touches on countless other lifes. A suicide will hurt and traumatise people close to the person who even attempts it, let alone succeeds. It will affect even people who might just be superficial acquaintances. It might to some extend a cultural thing, stemming from the taboo connected with suicide in traditionally Christian societies, but people who hear of an acquaintance commting suicide tend to place part of the blame on themselves, assuming that maybe there had been an indication of things to come that they overlooked, and maybe they could have done something to prevent the suicide from happening.

So, overall, my opinion on suicide is much like my opinion on abortions : it should be a right for everybody, but it would be best if only the smallest possible number actually made use of that right.

How is living life hard?

Even the worst off of those of us on NSG is better off than billions of people living today, so by what right can we claim that our lives are "hard"?

Happiness is not a set of circumstances, it's a state of mind

"Probably," yes.

"Necessarily"... that's a whole different question.

Well, I'm no medical expert, but to my knowledge survival instinct and the will to live is a common trait in all animals.
Treatment, often including medication and psychotherapy, is directed at the underlying causes of suicidal thinking. Clinical depression is the most common treatable cause, with alcohol or drug abuse being the next major categories[citation needed].

Other psychiatric disorders associated with suicidal thinking include bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, Borderline personality disorder, Gender identity disorder and eating disorders. Suicidal thoughts provoked by crises will generally settle with time and counseling. Severe depression can continue throughout life even with treatment and repetitive suicide attempts or suicidal ideation can be the result.

Methods for disrupting suicidal thinking include having family members or friends tell the person contemplating suicide about who else would be hurt by the loss, citing valuable and productive aspects of the patient's life, and provoking simple curiosity about the victim's own future

Naturally, my life is mine. Mine. MINE! Mwahahahahaaa!

This is just a topic I have wondering for a while now what others opinions are. I guess it relates to suicide, but do you think that your life is yours to do as you want with it? Including forfeiting it if you wish? I personally agree that you can do what you want with your own life, but I spose the counter arguement mostly comes from a religious perspective, that we don't 'own' our lives/souls so to speak.

Opinions?

-poll coming up

Your life is your own to use or waste as you please, but (and there is always a but) remember that whatever you do impacts on others. An individual may think that he/she is unloved and unwanted but there is always someone who cares and who will be deeply injured if that person harms him/herself. The greatest argument against suicide is not religious, but personal - when I harm myself I harm everyone who cares about me. The argument that "they would be better off without me" is specious.

At least I think that I can do as I please with my life.

God gives me my life to do with it as I wish. God gives us free will and the choice. Life isn't a test, its a gift and he wishes us to enjoy it. If people hate their lives and don't want to live.....its a sad situation but its their choice

Person X's life is Person X's to do with as they please. If they wish to end it, fine.

There are some arguments on this subject I don't agree with, too:

"People in Place Y have it so much worse than Person X!": Good for them. Nobody's stopping them from killing themselves if they want to, either. Just because they don't want to doesn't mean that Person X shouldn't.

"Person X's friends are going to be really sad if Person X tops themself!": Well, then, maybe Person X's friends should try and make Person X's life a little more worthwhile? I think this argument is just trying to avoid guilt, myself; everyone's had those friends who use other people to make up the numbers, to make themselves feel popular, but will never go out of their way for anybody else, haven't they? Well, why should Person X persist in life just to keep them happy, to stop them feeling guilty that maybe they could have prevented it if they'd not been so selfish themselves?
Reminds me of the stereotypical "pro-life" stance: "We don't want you to have an abortion." "Oh, will you help me look after the child?" "No, that's your job". Ha.

Let's be honest; unless you're obscenely rich, most of your life is going to be very tedious, even if - like most of us here - you live in a halfway-decent country. You wake up, you do work, you make some food, you have a few hours to faff around and distract yourself from the drudgery, and then you go to bed. It's almost as bad as playing World of Warcraft, isn't it? The actual "great adventures" (other than death, heh) of life are few and far between, and getting rarer. I can fully understand why people would get fed up with it and decide they just don't want to play any more.
And why should they be forced? They probably don't have a great deal to look forward to; they carry on working until they're incapable of doing it, and then they get bundled in to a home to rot away. Huzzah.

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Well, that's a cheery first post of the day, isn't it? I'm going to have more coffee. And I really should get on with some work.

Everyone has a right to do what they want with their own body. However, someone who is considering suicide does so because their perceived problems completely obstruct any notion of love from others, or they are under the delusion that no-one cares. Selfish, yes, but I wouldn't say its cowardly, everyone has some problems that they cannot face up to or solve.

CD, your second point I slightly agree with, but I think in many cases the friends will have no idea about the person's thoughts, probably because the person has not let on to them anything due to not wanting to worry them. I know I shocked a friend when I revealed my suicidal thoughts. There is a feeling of shame and personal flaw that people find hard to tell others about, even close friends.

This is just a topic I have wondering for a while now what others opinions are. I guess it relates to suicide, but do you think that your life is yours to do as you want with it? Including forfeiting it if you wish? I personally agree that you can do what you want with your own life, but I spose the counter arguement mostly comes from a religious perspective, that we don't 'own' our lives/souls so to speak.

Opinions?

-poll coming up

I'm gonna fix it around a little, and if I don't like it, I'll fix it some more. Basically, I'll just do as I please, and answer to nobody but myself.

My life is my own to do with EXACTLY as I please. This includes suicide, but that in essence would be destroying the one human that I know without a doubt cares about me.

Plus, it would be an unforgivable crime against humanity to deprive the world of my existance.

I think that everyone should decide themselves what to do with their life. If they wish to suicide, I'm not gonna stop them.

If someone once wanted to just die, but decided against killing themselves, that's of course great.:cool: But I think that there the biggest factor shouldn't be religion. Rather they shouldn't die for themselves or for someone they really love. Okay, if someone is completely into their religion, whatever it might be, they can love God as well very much... OMG, I think I'm starting to talk shit and no-one understands me anymore anyways. :( XD

our lives are our own only to the extent that they don't affect others around us. a hermit's life is entirely his/her own, everyone else is part of a society and as such sacrifices a degree of self determination for the sake of the stability of that society. however, we have free will (as much or as little as the state wishes to allow us) which enables us to take back some of that self determination if we wish to instigate changes in our society for good or ill or if we simply wish to fuck everyone else and end it all. suicide is a pretty crappy way to exercise one's free will as it does no good to anyone and potentially does significant damage to our peers.

My life is but a vessel for God's will, and I chose it to be that way.
Isn't that the suicide bomber's line? :eek:

Everybody has the right to decide whether to live or not, in my opinion, and I don't share the apparent moral outrage because some people choose not to bear their unbearable lives. I belive quality of life is much more important that quantity of life, and quality is subjective - i.e. only I can judge whether my life is worth the effort or not.

I really don't understand the "suicide is selfish" argument either. I usually hear it from people who have not experienced the intolerable despair of one who is suicidal - yet they claim their own pain on learning of the death of a friend or relative is greater than the pain of the one who feels the need to commit suicide. It translates as "I don't really understand how you feel but I would prefer not to feel any grief over you, so don't cause me any".

Person X's life is Person X's to do with as they please. If they wish to end it, fine.

There are some arguments on this subject I don't agree with, too:

"People in Place Y have it so much worse than Person X!": Good for them. Nobody's stopping them from killing themselves if they want to, either. Just because they don't want to doesn't mean that Person X shouldn't.

"Person X's friends are going to be really sad if Person X tops themself!": Well, then, maybe Person X's friends should try and make Person X's life a little more worthwhile? I think this argument is just trying to avoid guilt, myself; everyone's had those friends who use other people to make up the numbers, to make themselves feel popular, but will never go out of their way for anybody else, haven't they? Well, why should Person X persist in life just to keep them happy, to stop them feeling guilty that maybe they could have prevented it if they'd not been so selfish themselves?
Reminds me of the stereotypical "pro-life" stance: "We don't want you to have an abortion." "Oh, will you help me look after the child?" "No, that's your job". Ha.

Let's be honest; unless you're obscenely rich, most of your life is going to be very tedious, even if - like most of us here - you live in a halfway-decent country. You wake up, you do work, you make some food, you have a few hours to faff around and distract yourself from the drudgery, and then you go to bed. It's almost as bad as playing World of Warcraft, isn't it? The actual "great adventures" (other than death, heh) of life are few and far between, and getting rarer. I can fully understand why people would get fed up with it and decide they just don't want to play any more.
And why should they be forced? They probably don't have a great deal to look forward to; they carry on working until they're incapable of doing it, and then they get bundled in to a home to rot away. Huzzah.

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Well, that's a cheery first post of the day, isn't it? I'm going to have more coffee. And I really should get on with some work.
You win the thread, assuming I have the authority necessary to say so...:)