NationStates Jolt Archive


Eu

The-Low-Countries
19-04-2007, 20:00
Hello, this essay is about the possibility of Europe becoming a Superpower, not to replace the USA but to rival its power. I will be saying a lot of things like: This is better in the EU then in the USA. This is not to play down the USA, its just that for the EU to surpass or catch up or whatever to the USA, the EU will need to be better in things then the USA. All facts are facts, taken from the UN, the IMF, nationmaster.com (who gets its facts from the UN, IMF etc…), Eurostat, CIA, OECD, and other similar organisations. Some things of course are open to interpretation but I have tried to stick to the facts given to me and how they are interpreted by both sides of the debate.

It seems as though many have already forgotten, that the USA hasn't been the sole superpower forever, there was another one. This other superpower fell apart, the Soviet Union. It is believed by many that America is the victor (which I also believe is the case) and therefore will forever remain the sole power. I am not one of those people that thinks it will remain, why some can’t understand that is an unsolved riddle to me, it could be that many are just blinded by sheer patriotism and just refuse to consider the possibility, it could also just be that they judge the fact differently which I hope is the true cause. I am not saying they see it the wrong way because right now it can go both ways and there isn’t a soul alive who can know, besides nobody predicted the fall of the Soviet Union even after the wall fell.

If you look at superstition and religion you will find that the EU is the next superpower, at least the bible says it will be, Nostradamus also predicts it, he managed to predict the A-bomb to a few years in accuracy while he lived in the late middle ages. But I myself don’t believe in all that, I am a man of science who believes that there is nothing regulating history and the future besides our own choices.

Now you may have guessed it, I think it’s the EU that is the next superpower, and by next I don’t mean it will replace the current one and that it will be the last one but that it will be a superpower to rival the other(s). The European Union however will be a totally different superpower then the current one, the USA. The USA is a so called hard power that essentially uses its military as the tool to get that power. The EU is more likely to be the soft power, meaning it will gain its supremacy threw diplomacy, aid and economic muscle.

The European Union has, since a few years, passed the United States in being the #1 economy of the world, looking at the difference in GDP you get this (IMF 2006 figures):

European Union: $14.527.000.000.000 in international dollars.
United States: $13.220.000.000.000 in international dollars.

When you take a look at the worlds largest and most profitable organisations/companies you will see a trend that has been going on for over a decade, the EU is getting a larger share of this pie while the USA is dropping, its even reached the point that there are more European companies then American companies in the top 500 companies of the world.

When we look even further into the future with the facts we have today and the trends of yesterday (which is all we have to go on, besides patriotic gut feelings), we find that the US economy is slowing down although it is unknown howmuch it will slow down, whilst at the same time the EU economy is in the midst of economic acceleration. At the same time the EU Inflation is stable at a level below the 2,0% mark and the inflation of the USA only seems to be accelerating to higher levels, combatting that would cause the US economy to be damaged further so one way or the other, the USA isn't looking to shiny. This means that European economic dominance over the USA, as it stands right now that is, should only grow. This evermore so if you take into account the difference between inflation and economic growth, the smaller the difference, the smaller the ACTUAL wealth growth even if you have a 900% economic growth with a 899% inflation, you only get 1% richer.

Another positive factor for Europe is that the Euro is becoming more and more popular for the world because of an expected nose dive of the US dollar, this is not necessarily bad for the USA because the losses on the financial market are compensated by increased exports due to the cheap dollar. But it most certainly is profitable for the EU economy who will suddenly attract much more investment into it’s currency. On a side note there is even talk in the EU, India, China, Japan about making the Euro the international Currency.

Innovation is also a strong point for Europe, although it is not nearly as close to the level of Japanese innovation it is a very innovative group of nations. In the recent report of the OECD about education you will find that western Europe ranks almost all the high spots for education and innovation while the Americans barely managed spot 18 (out of 31), this also goes for the recent UN’s education report where the USA reached spot 28 with Europe again filling most of the spots above that. This can also be seen in the amount of important inventions made by EU nations. This is all mainly due to the fact that there aren’t huge differences in the level of education given to the rich and to the poor, in most EU nations even a small difference is (almost) non existent.

Foreign dependency in Europe is also very low if you compare it to other (semi)superpowers, the EU right now is the only (semi)superpower nation/region that is really focussed on alternative energy recourses. For everything besides fossil fuels (including food, labour, Ores, wood etc), Europe is pretty much self-sufficient. And it is the (semi)superpower that will be least impacted by an oil/gas embargo by its suppliers because of its alternative energy program. In my opinion this is a very smart policy.

Productivity is also a major factor for economic success, when you look at various reports from the IMF, UN and the OECD you will find that whilst Europeans work FAR less then Americans in terms of clock hours, the productivity per employee is not much different. This also means that the European lifestyle leaves a whole lot more time to do what you want for fun. This is also a mentality difference, the USA is often a more work focussed nation while the EU is often a more “fun” focussed region. This is much more attractive to other people which means that the cultural influence of the EU can be expected to be higher.

On the social front, Europe is also very advanced, poverty in the EU is very low compared to the other rich nations when you take into account the percentage of poverty stricken citizens and the line between poverty and median income used to make that assessment (this line is pretty high so what is considered poor in the EU can still be seen as median in USA and Japan etc.). National healthcare is also far more attractive to people then privatized healthcare. The reasons for this are extremely simple, in privatized systems it has been proven that prices for medical treatment will run out of control, look at the USA where you have to pay at least 3 times as much in the USA for an in all respects identical procedure in Germany. This also always leaves uninsured people that essentially get not much more then a morphine shot to cover the pain of cancer because they can’t pay for chemotherapy (exagerated but close to the truth). This difference is already a factor that makes it more lucrative to be socially identical to the EU then to the USA. Meaning in the sense of cultural influence, the EU will have a larger sphere of influence and thus cultural power.

Now on the international political stage there’s also a very peculiar development taking place, the EU is by FAR the largest foreign aid donators of the (semi)superpowers. In the latest numbers the USA gives about 19 billion international dollars in foreign aid a year while the top 6 EU nations alone already give more then 40 billion a year in foreign aid with a nation of 520 billion in GDP already giving 9 billion. Now you don’t need to be a genius to know that nations will be most loyal to the nations that help them out the most. What also aids the EU is the fact that these past 10 years, the world has sought more and more distance from the USA due to its 'with us or without us' politics and the idea that the USA picks on nations they don't like, there is a vacuum, Europe with it’s more diplomatic/pacifistic policy is an easy filler of this vacuum.

When it comes to the Military, the EU will most likely not become the #1 power, this is because the EU is comparatively pacifistic. But the EU still has 300 billion international dollars in defence budget every the USA, is 600 billion of which 100 billion goes to the Iraq war and the 3rd military budget is somewhere in the 45 billion region however you can expect that China is misleading the world and has about 100 billion dollars in defence budget. The EU is not one single unit when it comes to defence, however military technology is on par with the USA and due to the EU’s higher innovation level it shouldn’t get any less. What outsiders fail to notice is that nations like Germany and The Netherlands have very well integrated armed forces, and not just those two, many others. There are also rapidly growing EU (note <<EU>>) army’s, navy’s and air forces. Missions are already being done under the EU flag and EU commanders.

Other factors that way in to the EU becoming/being a superpower:
-The 3rd largest labour force, with only China and India ahead of them.
-The 3rd largest population size, with only China and India ahead of them.
-A sizeable Nuclear force.

Now in a good essay, you also name the things that oppose your own ideas, and ofcourse prove them wrong so I will:

The EU has a few problems in its way, but point me one country that didn’t have problems during it’s formation, even after the American civil war… The Americans had problems, the Russians still can’t settle down after centuries. So comparatively the problems of the EU are minor.

One of the few real arguments against the EU coming together is Eastern Europe, to be more exact, it’s poverty. I believe that this is actually the thing that will keep the EU ahead economically. It also gives the EU a large population edge. Ireland was yesterday what eastern Europe is today, so was Spain, Portugal even Italy. Look at them now, Italy is in the G8, Spain is an economic great power and rich, Portugal is pretty rich not the richest but rich. Ireland is even richer then the USA and still growing at a pace you only really see in China. And we see it today, Poland is a large country with a great economic growth rate, the Czech Republic has come out from the level of poor and is actually starting to turn into a rich nation. This is happening threw all of Eastern Europe. The EU is not just what happens today, it’s what happens tomorrow too. The rise of Eastern Europe is great for the rest of Europe’s trade, look at Ireland, the UK is trading like never before with that nation.

The Culture is different, and this is true. But I’ve lived in both the USA and the EU. And I can tell you the difference in culture between Belgium and Poland for example is no bigger then one US state to the other. Yes there’s a culture difference, but it tends to be highly over exaggerated.

What about the EU constitution? It’s bound to come up, no EU debate lives without it, doesn’t it? Well lets do some analysis first before we jump to shallow conclusions. The constitution already exists and is already into power, the EU constitution actually is NOTHING more then the combination of previously signed treaties. Also the no’s really only came from nations in which the government was unpopular, the people didn’t vote against the EU but against their own government. Look at France and the Netherlands. Both Governments were at there all time lows in popularity. Saying that Europeans are again strong EU… .That would be just like saying Americans love terrorists just because Americans disapprove of bringing their moral standards down to those of Al-Qaeda just to combat Al-Qaeda.

I hope you enjoyed my Essay.
Khermi
19-04-2007, 20:09
Usually source citing comes at the end of a piece of work. I would also like to see the web pages and/or know the books/articles to which you got all of this information so I can see for myself, instead of just taking your word for it.

Otherwise it seemed good. You had lots of information and some nice numbers. Just do a better job citing them next time.
South Lorenya
19-04-2007, 20:17
Well, the EU isn't nearly as unified as the US is -- it's more accurate to compare it to the US of two hundred years ago.

And the population of EU is actually shrinking -- they had slightly fewer people in 2005 than in 2000 and 1995. As the population grows elsewhere,. they're estimating that Europe'll be around 100 million people LESS by 2050. Enjoy the EU lead while you can! ;)

On a side note, when the US and EU finally decide to adopt a common currency, I have a feeling EVERYONE will follow shortly thereafter. Together they'd have a combined 58% or so of the worldwide GDP and have close to six times the next place guy, Japan....
Khadgar
19-04-2007, 20:18
tl;dr


Seriously, sources, and smaller posts eh? Most people here have the attention spans of a magpie, first shiny object distracts them.
HotRodia
19-04-2007, 20:26
tl;dr


Seriously, sources, and smaller posts eh? Most people here have the attention spans of a magpie, first shiny object distracts them.

It was the very large numbers that distracted me.
Bunnyducks
19-04-2007, 20:36
And the population of EU is actually shrinking -- they had slightly fewer people in 2005 than in 2000 and 1995. I find it hard to believe that the EU has less people now than in 1995 when several countries have joined the Union since then. they're estimating that Europe'll be around 100 million people LESS by 2050. I don't know who "they" are, but Eurostats doesn't share their wiev (here). (http://epp.eurostat.cec.eu.int/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/PGP_PRD_CAT_PREREL/PGE_CAT_PREREL_YEAR_2005/PGE_CAT_PREREL_YEAR_2005_MONTH_04/3-08042005-EN-AP.PDF)
The-Low-Countries
19-04-2007, 20:36
Well, the EU isn't nearly as unified as the US is -- it's more accurate to compare it to the US of two hundred years ago.

And the population of EU is actually shrinking -- they had slightly fewer people in 2005 than in 2000 and 1995. As the population grows elsewhere,. they're estimating that Europe'll be around 100 million people LESS by 2050. Enjoy the EU lead while you can! ;)

On a side note, when the US and EU finally decide to adopt a common currency, I have a feeling EVERYONE will follow shortly thereafter. Together they'd have a combined 58% or so of the worldwide GDP and have close to six times the next place guy, Japan....

Well the difference is still over 190 million :P plus the EU is still growing 0,15% but yes indeed it is set to shrink. Although I doubt it will remain so untill 2050... The EU region has always had a history of falling and climbing in poppulation numbers.
Andaluciae
19-04-2007, 20:41
Show me a unified European Nuclear Command, that will act without preference to any of the nations militaries that have contributed, and then I can consider the EU a state in and of itself. I want to see a position where a German General can oversee French and British nuclear weapons, before I can rate the EU as such. Until then, the EU is just a collection of loosely bound independent states.
Swilatia
19-04-2007, 20:42
Your speech is too long, and ignores the facts that america is already starting to lose its superpower status, and that the EU is not a country, and unlikely to become one.
Greater Trostia
19-04-2007, 20:43
If you count the entire European Union as as contender for "number one economy in the world," clearly you are ignoring national boundaries, so why should we do the same?

I bet NAFTA still has a greater combined GDP than the EU. There you go, North America is a superpower.

I win the thread.
The-Low-Countries
19-04-2007, 20:47
If you count the entire European Union as as contender for "number one economy in the world," clearly you are ignoring national boundaries, so why should we do the same?

I bet NAFTA still has a greater combined GDP than the EU. There you go, North America is a superpower.

I win the thread.

Are you kidding? You really dont see the difference between NAFTA and the EU? The EU already has initiated a process of 1 military and its pretty far ahead, not close to finishing but not just started either. The EU has a single currency (for the most part) the EU has a parliament that is ellected and a cabinet (EU comission) it has a central bank, it has a federal law system, just like Washington, Brussel can say: In the EU euthenasia is not allowed if they say it is, just like the states of the USA the members can still decide whether or not they really implement it. The EU is not comparable to NAFTA. NAFTA is a free trade zon. The EU is a common market, a unified defence policy (yes the replacement of the WEU does that), and its a political union.
Swilatia
19-04-2007, 20:49
If you count the entire European Union as as contender for "number one economy in the world," clearly you are ignoring national boundaries, so why should we do the same?

I bet NAFTA still has a greater combined GDP than the EU. There you go, North America is a superpower.

I win the thread.
no, you don't no-one wins a thread until some-one else declares you do. And I do not consider your post to be athread-winning one.
Swilatia
19-04-2007, 20:51
Most people here have the attention spans of a magpie, first shiny object distracts them.

what do you have to prove that claim?
Andaluciae
19-04-2007, 20:52
what do you have to prove that claim?

I'm obviously the prime example! Oooooooh! Pretty-shiny! (http://pics.livejournal.com/magnio/pic/0001sxdr/s320x240)
Cookavich
19-04-2007, 20:53
what do you have to prove that claim?Yeah I was wondering about that myself...oh look a dime.
Greater Trostia
19-04-2007, 20:55
no, you don't no-one wins a thread until some-one else declares you do. And I do not consider your post to be athread-winning one.

I've changed the rules. Now winning the thread can be declared by anyone. Enough of that democratic nonsense about someone else nominating and then two seconds or whatever! You are just a dissident!
The-Low-Countries
19-04-2007, 21:01
If you count the entire European Union as as contender for "number one economy in the world," clearly you are ignoring national boundaries, so why should we do the same?

I bet NAFTA still has a greater combined GDP than the EU. There you go, North America is a superpower.

I win the thread.

Are you kidding? You really dont see the difference between NAFTA and the EU? The EU already has initiated a process of 1 military and its pretty far ahead, not close to finishing but not just started either. The EU has a single currency (for the most part) the EU has a parliament that is ellected and a cabinet (EU comission) it has a central bank, it has a federal law system, just like Washington, Brussel can say: In the EU euthenasia is not allowed if they say it is, just like the states of the USA the members can still decide whether or not they really implement it. The EU is not comparable to NAFTA. NAFTA is a free trade zon. The EU is a common market, a unified defence policy (yes the replacement of the WEU does that), and its a political union.
The-Low-Countries
19-04-2007, 21:01
Are you kidding? You really dont see the difference between NAFTA and the EU? The EU already has initiated a process of 1 military and its pretty far ahead, not close to finishing but not just started either. The EU has a single currency (for the most part) the EU has a parliament that is ellected and a cabinet (EU comission) it has a central bank, it has a federal law system, just like Washington, Brussel can say: In the EU euthenasia is not allowed if they say it is, just like the states of the USA the members can still decide whether or not they really implement it. The EU is not comparable to NAFTA. NAFTA is a free trade zon. The EU is a common market, a unified defence policy (yes the replacement of the WEU does that), and its a political union.
The-Low-Countries
19-04-2007, 21:02
WTF why do I need to wait for a mod to approve my posts now!?
Nationalian
19-04-2007, 21:03
I've changed the rules. Now winning the thread can be declared by anyone. Enough of that democratic nonsense about someone else nominating and then two seconds or whatever! You are just a dissident!

At least you don't lack confidence.
The-Low-Countries
19-04-2007, 21:05
Are you kidding? You really dont see the difference between NAFTA and the EU? The EU already has initiated a process of 1 military and its pretty far ahead, not close to finishing but not just started either. The EU has a single currency (for the most part) the EU has a parliament that is ellected and a cabinet (EU comission) it has a central bank, it has a federal law system, just like Washington, Brussel can say: In the EU euthenasia is not allowed if they say it is, just like the states of the USA the members can still decide whether or not they really implement it. The EU is not comparable to NAFTA.
The-Low-Countries
19-04-2007, 21:06
Because their evil Americans oppressing you and not letting you spread your Truthiness to the masses.

/sarcasmtotheextreme

Funny :)
The South Islands
19-04-2007, 21:07
WTF why do I need to wait for a mod to approve my posts now!?

Because their evil Americans oppressing you and not letting you spread your Truthiness to the masses.

/sarcasmtotheextreme
Siempreciego
19-04-2007, 21:28
OP snip

interesting OP.

Links would be some use, as in theory you could be pulling this information from thin air.

Working under the assumption the fact are correct, 1 or 2 points.

Based on current demographic trends the population of europe will shrink over the next few decades. Although there seems to be a slight shift in this trend, whether its enough only time will tell.

The EU political structure needs to be....restructured. The EU could alot from the the US in terms of this. United States of Europe anyone?

1 EU wide language. Whether its english, spanish, french, german, esperanto, etc...

More standardisation in terms of taxes, laws and so-on. Would be extremely beneficial for EU businesses, as well as increase employee mobility.
The-Low-Countries
19-04-2007, 21:45
interesting OP.

Links would be some use, as in theory you could be pulling this information from thin air.

Working under the assumption the fact are correct, 1 or 2 points.

Based on current demographic trends the population of europe will shrink over the next few decades. Although there seems to be a slight shift in this trend, whether its enough only time will tell.

The EU political structure needs to be....restructured. The EU could alot from the the US in terms of this. United States of Europe anyone?

1 EU wide language. Whether its english, spanish, french, german, esperanto, etc...

More standardisation in terms of taxes, laws and so-on. Would be extremely beneficial for EU businesses, as well as increase employee mobility.

You're correct, (ill try and fetch those reports)

Well I myself am not in favour of the US poltical model, in the end you only have two candidates, and thus only two choices. You get the choice yes Euthenasia or no Euthenasia while in europe you also get the added choice of yes but only if, yes but only when, yes but only after, yes but only under *** circumstances. Now I understand that this also creates a whole lot of small parties but it also means that its not a constant one side of the political spectrum gets all the attention and the other has to wait for 4 years for its next chance. And you dont get the situation that you'll have to chose between a bad choice and an even worse choice and nothing more.

Language is a big Issue indeed, I myself (as dutch) would like to see English, but you have to note almost every European speaks it. I've been to Poland and even there they have no problems with it. (The French speak it to but some refuse to while they can).

Standardized taxes is actually in the "tube"or "in the making" and laws are already at the Federal level, the EU has control over almost everything but Defence which is comming together btw. It's just like washington it gets to define the big lines, and the states (or in the EU's case the countries) get to make the details. And well employee mobility is just fine if I say so myself, Poles can get a job permit just like *snap* in my country and this goes for most countries if not all(uk I think still has some restrictions but are dropping them this year).
Swilatia
19-04-2007, 21:46
I've changed the rules. Now winning the thread can be declared by anyone. Enough of that democratic nonsense about someone else nominating and then two seconds or whatever! You are just a dissident!

No, you do not. Who are you anyway.
Pure Metal
19-04-2007, 22:01
while i haven't bothered to read the thread/OP, i made a thread similar to this one time. here's the research i dug up: http://www.hlj.me.uk/NS/Econ/stats_export.htm
Philosopy
19-04-2007, 22:07
Your OP is long and I am tired. This:

WTF why do I need to wait for a mod to approve my posts now!?

is a nice length post, and one I can answer without any thought.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=511850

Welcome to NSG.
South Lorenya
19-04-2007, 22:11
err, whoops...

EU is gaining people due to new countries. It's Europe as a whole that slightly declined in numbers.
Siempreciego
19-04-2007, 22:23
You're correct, (ill try and fetch those reports)

Well I myself am not in favour of the US poltical model, in the end you only have two candidates, and thus only two choices. You get the choice yes Euthenasia or no Euthenasia while in europe you also get the added choice of yes but only if, yes but only when, yes but only after, yes but only under *** circumstances. Now I understand that this also creates a whole lot of small parties but it also means that its not a constant one side of the political spectrum gets all the attention and the other has to wait for 4 years for its next chance. And you dont get the situation that you'll have to chose between a bad choice and an even worse choice and nothing more.


By political model i was more refering to the set up of the government setup/structure than the political parties.
As opposed to lots of little parties i'm more partial to 'Rated voting methods'. Logically this would prevents extremes in the politcal parties as they would try and get the most points possible by appealing to as many as possible, even to a small degree
Relyc
19-04-2007, 22:36
You love a good essay don't you, Low-countries? :rolleyes: :p
Swilatia
19-04-2007, 22:47
while i haven't bothered to read the thread/OP, i made a thread similar to this one time. here's the research i dug up: http://www.hlj.me.uk/NS/Econ/stats_export.htm

The stats you used were from 12 years ago.
Pure Metal
19-04-2007, 22:58
The stats you used were from 12 years ago.

no, they were from 7 years ago, and i looked them up early last year sometime.

they are index adjusted for the dollar as it was in real terms 12 years ago.


if i wasn't so tired i'd read the OP, but its so loooooooong :(
The-Low-Countries
19-04-2007, 23:13
err, whoops...

EU is gaining people due to new countries. It's Europe as a whole that slightly declined in numbers.

Europe did indeed, Russia and Ukraine and Belarus are all declining in poppulation. They have a -0,4% every year except the Ukraine, it has a -0,675% a year.

The EU however hasnt declined in poppulation since a few decades back.

The EU grew 0,15% this year it is expected to grow 0,16% WITHOUT counting the growing of member states.
Alacea
20-04-2007, 01:06
*Sigh*

I'd make a point, but the OP is so sure of himself he'd probably jump down my throat...


If the EU was an american state, it'd be the fourth poorest. Just because your economy is bigger doesn't make you "stronger".
Posi
20-04-2007, 01:20
Your OP is long and I am tired. This:



is a nice length post, and one I can answer without any thought.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=511850

Welcome to NSG.
The solution is quite clear, the rest of Europe has to do whatever the hell Luxembourg is to keep its GDP/Capita so high.
Admiral Canaris
20-04-2007, 02:00
*snip*

EU SUX.
Greater Trostia
20-04-2007, 06:00
Are you kidding? You really dont see the difference between NAFTA and the EU? The EU already has initiated a process of 1 military and its pretty far ahead, not close to finishing but not just started either. The EU has a single currency (for the most part) the EU has a parliament that is ellected and a cabinet (EU comission) it has a central bank, it has a federal law system, just like Washington, Brussel can say: In the EU euthenasia is not allowed if they say it is, just like the states of the USA the members can still decide whether or not they really implement it. The EU is not comparable to NAFTA. NAFTA is a free trade zon. The EU is a common market, a unified defence policy (yes the replacement of the WEU does that), and its a political union.


The EU is not a State. You are comparing with a State. This is dishonest regardless of the differences between the EU and other supra-national organizations.
Nationalian
20-04-2007, 08:09
Some have pointed out that EU gives much aid. This doesn't have to be a good thing. A couple of months ago I saw a documentary about the impact of subsidizes to european farmers. The EU gives massive subsidizes to it's farmers and the most expensive farming products become the cheapest overnight. Sounds good? It probably does but look at the impacts. European farmers produce way to much and they don't burn it any longer to keep the prices up. Instead big food companies are selling those products in Africa and other poor countries, where they dump the prices so local farmers can't compete with them and not make their own living. The EU also have massive tarriffs so they won't be able to sell their own products on the European market. Now you may ask yourself, why doesn't theese countries raise their tarriffs to protect their local market? And the answer is easy: because EU would cut its aid. So basically the aid EU gives helps the EU to keep those countries in chess.

Now, I don't say that aid is a bad thing but before ranting about how good EU is because it donates so much, look at the consequenses of its donations. EU can keep giving africa aid, but the only way it can help africa to make it on its own, is if it helps them to set up an own market. As it is right now, it's preventing it.
Siempreciego
20-04-2007, 09:23
Now, I don't say that aid is a bad thing but before ranting about how good EU is because it donates so much, look at the consequenses of its donations. EU can keep giving africa aid, but the only way it can help africa to make it on its own, is if it helps them to set up an own market. As it is right now, it's preventing it.

well yes, along with the US and japan. But all 3 are only making small movements in right direction
The-Low-Countries
20-04-2007, 09:48
The EU is not a State. You are comparing with a State. This is dishonest regardless of the differences between the EU and other supra-national organizations.

Indeed it isn't a state, but it does have a whole shitload of things that make it look like it. When it comes to laws its almost nothing different from the federal Authority of DC. Face it.
The-Low-Countries
20-04-2007, 09:51
*Sigh*

I'd make a point, but the OP is so sure of himself he'd probably jump down my throat...


If the EU was an american state, it'd be the fourth poorest. Just because your economy is bigger doesn't make you "stronger".

Actually it would be the poorest US state. But at the same time it won't due to much cheaper prices in the EU. You can have a median income difference of 100% but if the price difference is even greater then 100%...

See the Economic power is not judged by what your GDP/Cap is, if that were the case then Norway/Luxembourg/Ireland/Bermuda would be far more powerfull then the USA. The EU has a greater GDP and thus practices more economic influence.
Risottia
20-04-2007, 09:54
Hello, this essay is about the possibility of Europe becoming a Superpower, not to replace the USA but to rival its power.

Europe is already a superpower. As a military power (no one can invade Europe and win) and as economical power.
I found a very interesting figure in the CIA world factbook (clearly, a non anti-USA biased source).

Exports.
1 World $ 12,440,000,000,000 2004 est.
2 European Union $ 1,330,000,000,000 2005
3 Germany $ 1,133,000,000,000 2006 est.
4 United States $ 1,024,000,000,000 2006 est.
5 China $ 974,000,000,000 2006 est.

That is, the EU exports already more than the US or China. Germany alone exports more than the US or China (and its population is less than 1/3 of the US population, and about 1/13 of the Chinese population).

If you sum the export figures of all 27 EU countries, they sum up to about 4,9 Tera$ (that is, 39,5% of the world total). This means that 4,9 (total exports of EU countries) - 1,3 (extra-EU EU exports) = 3,6 T$ INTER-EU EXPORTS (73% of the total)!
That is, the EU has the largest internal market of the world - and this makes the EU economy less vulnerable to world fluctuations.
Siempreciego
20-04-2007, 09:56
The EU is not a State. You are comparing with a State. This is dishonest regardless of the differences between the EU and other supra-national organizations.

Your absolutely right, the EU is not currently a state. But (IMO) it is moving in that direction.

Sooner or later there will be a common foreign policy, the UN won't be able to keep its french & english security council seats, so they'll probably be combined into an EU seat, etc....

Oh and lets not forget the CCCP was not a state either but a union of 15 different countries. Although I do realise it was dominated by Russia.
Pure Metal
20-04-2007, 10:01
Europe is already a superpower. As a military power (no one can invade Europe and win) and as economical power.
I found a very interesting figure in the CIA world factbook (clearly, a non anti-USA biased source).

Exports.
1 World $ 12,440,000,000,000 2004 est.
2 European Union $ 1,330,000,000,000 2005
3 Germany $ 1,133,000,000,000 2006 est.
4 United States $ 1,024,000,000,000 2006 est.
5 China $ 974,000,000,000 2006 est.

That is, the EU exports already more than the US or China. Germany alone exports more than the US or China (and its population is less than 1/3 of the US population, and about 1/13 of the Chinese population).

If you sum the export figures of all 27 EU countries, they sum up to about 4,9 Tera$ (that is, 39,5% of the world total). This means that 4,9 (total exports of EU countries) - 1,3 (extra-EU EU exports) = 3,6 T$ INTER-EU EXPORTS (73% of the total)!
That is, the EU has the largest internal market of the world - and this makes the EU economy less vulnerable to world fluctuations.

yes, one of the many reasons the EU should prevail, and for an ever closer union


*still hasn't read the bloody OP :p*
Risottia
20-04-2007, 10:22
yes, one of the many reasons the EU should prevail, and for an ever closer union
Yes. Yay for EU!

*still hasn't read the bloody OP :p*
I did. Most of it was already well-known, though.:p :p