NationStates Jolt Archive

Just an observation: that's not being Devil's Advocate; that's being sterotypical American asshole. :D

And funny, *I* always thought the most Christian nation on Earth was Vatican City!
Isn't the Vatican City Catholic? Just an assumption, because the Pope lives there.

Thanks for giving me my own thread Katganistan. *sigh*

Isn't the Vatican City Catholic? Just an assumption, because the Pope lives there.

Isn't Catholicism Christian?

Isn't Catholicism Christian?yes it is.

Isn't the Vatican City Catholic? Just an assumption, because the Pope lives there.

Catholics=Christians, although Christians do not necessarily = Catholics.

yes it is.
There are fundamental differences between Catholicism and Christianity.

Catholics=Christians, although Christians do not necessarily = Catholics.
If Catholics=Christians, then whats the point of having different names? Oh yes, they believe some different things.

I fail to see how an entire city of Catholics could be Christian, thats all I am saying.

There are fundamental differences between Cathlocism and Christianity.

*sigh*

Not this again. :rolleyes:

Many different branches of Christianity; Catholicism, Orthodox, Coptic, Calvinist, Anglican, Presbyterian, Baptist etc.

Christianity is the root to all the above branches.

There are fundamental differences between Catholicism and Christianity.

Catholics believe Christ is their savior.
Anyone who believes Christ is their savior is Christian.
Catholics are Christian.

Catholics believe Christ is their savior.
Anyone who believes Christ is their savior is Christian.
Catholics are Christian.

Logic is not allowed around here.

Logic is not allowed around here.

How silly of me. :D

Catholics believe Christ is their savior.
Anyone who believes Christ is their savior is Christian.
Catholics are Christian.
You can call Catholicism a sect of Christianity, but when describing a Catholic or a town full of Catholics, I don't think you would say they are Christian as they have different beliefs.

You can call Catholicism a sect of Christianity, but when describing a Catholic or a town full of Catholics, I don't think you would say they are Christian as the have different beliefs.

I give up.

*leaves*

[QUOTE=Eurgrovia;12555366]You can call Catholicism a sect of Christianity, but when describing a Catholic or a town full of Catholics, I don't think you would say they are Christian as they have different beliefs.[/QUOTE

Catholics believe Christ is their savior.... Crikey! that there is a whopper of a Christian!

I give up.

*leaves*
Why? I am aware that Christianity is the "root" of all branches in that they all have Christ and God involved, but when saying a city full of Catholics is actually Christian, you would be wrong, would you not?

Why? I am aware that Christianity is the "root" of all branches in that they all have Christ and God involved, but when saying a city full of Catholics is actually Christian, you would be wrong, would you not?

No..... because Catholics are Christian! Just like Baptists, Mormons, Anglicans, Coptics, Lutherans.....

Why? I am aware that Christianity is the "root" of all branches in that they all have Christ and God involved, but when saying a city full of Catholics is actually Christian, you would be wrong, would you not?

No you wouldn't.

It's like calling every human a mammal.

No..... because Catholics are Christian! Just like Baptists, Mormons, Anglicans, Coptics, Lutherans.....
Then whats the point of calling them different names? If you only want to point out that they happen to believe in and God and a Jesus, then sure call them Christian, but for the sake of clarification you have to call them Catholic.

No, you really don't. Trust me (and the myriad of other posters) on this. Please?
Ok, next time I here someone praying to mary or going on about their Church answering to the pope, I will call them a Christian.

but for the sake of clarification you have to call them Catholic.
No, you really don't. Trust me (and the myriad of other posters) on this. Please?

Try it. Sunday mass go into a catholic church and scream: "CHRISTIANS! YOU ARE ALL CHRISTIANS!!!"

Pause until the giddy laughter stops then yell: "PROTASTANTS, YOU ARE ALL PROTASTANTS!" and await your holy ass kicking.

It's like calling every human a mammal.Eurgrovia, You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals
So let''s do it like they do on the Discovery Channel
Do it again now
You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals
So let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel
Gettin' horny now.. :fluffle:

I never dreamed this thread would turn into another Christian/Catholic thread.

NSG: Expect the unexpected. also, cocks

Why? I am aware that Christianity is the "root" of all branches in that they all have Christ and God involved, but when saying a city full of Catholics is actually Christian, you would be wrong, would you not?You actually have it sort of backwards there... Catholicism is the original form of Christianity... all other Christian sects evolved or splintered off of what we now call Catholicism. But as already pointed out, all fall under the general heading 'Christianity'.

You can call Catholicism a sect of Christianity, but when describing a Catholic or a town full of Catholics, I don't think you would say they are Christian as they have different beliefs.

Catholics are just as Christian as any Protestant sect, no matter what your state of denial.
Baptists hold different beliefs from Lutherans.
Lutherans hold different beliefs from Episcopalians.
Eastern Orthodox Christians hold different beliefs from Dutch Reformed, and hey, they're Christian too.

What is so completely impossible to understand?

Perhaps someone with a problem in accepting any brand of Christianity except what they practice would have this problem but ACCEPTING CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR = A CHRISTIAN.

Catholics are just as Christian as any Protestant sect, no matter what your state of denial.
Baptists hold different beliefs from Lutherans.
Lutherans hold different beliefs from Episcopalians.

What is so completely impossible to understand?
Do a less extreme experiment than what Luporum suggested. Go into a Catholic church and ask them what religion they consider themselves to be.

If Catholics had the exact same beliefs as Christians, they would be Christian, but there are a few differences, so you cannot call all Catholics Christians even if they accept Jesus as their savior.

There is a reason Catholics call themselves Catholics and not Christians, and its not because they just feel like it.

Do a less extreme experiment than what Luporum suggested. Go into a Catholic church and ask them what religion they consider themselves to be.

If Catholics had the exact same beliefs as Christians, they would be Christian, but there are a few differences, so you cannot call all Catholics Christians even if they accept Jesus as their savior.

There is a reason Catholics call themselves Catholics and not Christians, and its not because they just feel like it.The reason why Catholics call themselves Catholic is because they are not Baptist, Protestants, or any other varients of Christianity. why? because people tend to catagorize themselves in the most specific catagory they could. so yes, they will call themselves Catholics before Christians because you also have other varients of Christianity that are not considered Catholic.

it's just like if someone were to ask you what vehicle you drive, how would you respond?

I am a Protestant. not Catholic. but like a Catholic, I am a Christian.

Do a less extreme experiment than what Luporum suggested. Go into a Catholic church and ask them what religion they consider themselves to be.

If Catholics had the exact same beliefs as Christians, they would be Christian, but there are a few differences, so you cannot call all Catholics Christians even if they accept Jesus as their savior.

There is a reason Catholics call themselves Catholics and not Christians, and its not because they just feel like it.

Your stupidity astounds me.
My mother is a Protestant.
My uncle is Lutheran.
My grandmother is Catholic.

They all go to the same church together (Protestant), while I (the athiest) stays home and enjoys my day of not dealing with them telling me I'm going to Hell for not accepting their one lord and savior.

Any question, grand vazeer of the religious truth?

Your stupidity astounds me.
Thanks mature one.

My mother is a Protestant.
My uncle is Lutheran.
My grandmother is Catholic.
My Mother used to be Catholic and is now a plain Christian
My uncle is Baptist
My Grandfather was a Catholic for 80 years.

They all go to the same church together (Protestant),
They don't worship mary or do catholic confessions?

while I (the athiest) stays home and enjoys my day of not dealing with them telling me I'm going to Hell for not accepting their one lord and savior.
Same here.

Any question, grand vazeer of the religious truth?
No, but perhaps you have one because you don't know churches work differently between Catholics/Christians(and their incredibly similar sects). See, I can be a dick to. :)

Go into a Catholic church and ask them what religion they consider themselves to be.

Even better, let me ask a Catholic.

Hey, Katganistan, you're a Catholic, aren't you?
Well, yes, Katganistan, I am. Why do you ask?
Katganistan, would you consider yourself a Christian?
...What kind of silly question is that, Katganistan. Of COURSE I'm a Christian.

Well, don't you have different beliefs than Christians?
Well, all branches of Christianity have different beliefs, Katganistan, but the most important, overriding thing that makes all Christians Christian is a belief in Christ and that he is our Savior. Here, let me draw you a picture since this seems to be difficult to understand.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s150/katganistan_photos/Catholics.jpg

Wow, that's a pretty red circle, Katganistan.
Thank you, Katganistan. Notice how I labeled it Christians. This represents all the Christians in all the world, no matter what denomination they might belong to.
What is that yellow circle there, Katganistan?
Well, that circle represents the Catholics, Katganistan. See, they're contained within the group of Christians as a whole.
Wow, thanks, that makes it much easier to understand, thanks!
You're welcome, Katganistan.

The reason why Catholics call themselves Catholic is because they are not Baptist, Protestants, or any other varients of Christianity. why? because people tend to catagorize themselves in the most specific catagory they could. so yes, they will call themselves Catholics before Christians because you also have other varients of Christianity that are not considered Catholic.

it's just like if someone were to ask you what vehicle you drive, how would you respond?

I am a Protestant. not Catholic. but like a Catholic, I am a Christian.
Many Catholics call themsevles Catholics not because its a more specific category than general Christianity, but because they have very different rituals and even beliefs, and they honestly do consider themselves Catholic.

Many Catholics call themsevles Catholics not because its a more specific category than general Christianity, but because they have very different rituals and even beliefs, and they honestly do consider themselves Catholic.

The same way Baptists consider themselves Baptists.:rolleyes:
I guess Baptists aren't Christians after all!

.
No, but perhaps you have one because you don't know churches work differently between Catholics/Christians(and their incredibly similar sects). See, I can be a dick to. :)

Oh I know churches work differently.
And it's odd.
You're being a dick, subtly managing to insinuate I was being a dick.
In truth, I was merely telling you (the infinitely stupid) that seperate sects of Christian religion can all go to each others church and worship, because they're all basically Coke/Pepsi. Maybe you want to eat a crouton o Christ. Maybe you would like a wafer. Perhaps your religion waves around a little metal ball with smoke coming out of it, while another religion slams down some blood o' Christ.

They all have a giant half-naked man nailed to a wooden plank, and they all ask his daddy for favors.
They are the one and the same, with only TRIVIAL at best differences.

Please, Sir Iamkingofallchristians, tell me one difference between ANY group of Christians and Catholics in particular, partaining to their religion.

Many Catholics call themsevles Catholics not because its a more specific category than general Christianity, but because they have very different rituals and even beliefs, and they honestly do consider themselves Catholic.

no, the rituals are not that different from other varients of Christianity. sure there are differences but not enough to consider them a totally different religion. which is what it seems you are doing.

Oh I know churches work differently.
And it's odd.
You're being a dick, subtly managing to insinuate I was being a dick.
In truth, I was merely telling you (the infinitely stupid) that seperate sects of Christian religion can all go to each others church and worship, because they're all basically Coke/Pepsi. Maybe you want to eat a crouton o Christ. Maybe you would like a wafer. Perhaps your religion waves around a little metal ball with smoke coming out of it, while another religion slams down some blood o' Christ.

They all have a giant half-naked man nailed to a wooden plank, and they all ask his daddy for favors.
They are the one and the same, with only TRIVIAL at best differences.

So far, you're the one being a dick (read your own insults), if I am coming across as a dick it is unintentional, I am only debating my view on something.

Please, Sir Iamkingofallchristians, tell me one difference between ANY group of Christians and Catholics in particular, partaining to their religion.
Um...ok. Catholics think they need confess their sins to a priest and they think Mary is a holy figure. Good enough for you?

My Mother used to be Catholic and is now a plain Christian
My uncle is Baptist
My Grandfather was a Catholic for 80 years.and there you go. you just provided proof that not all Christians are Catholic.
thus it would be wrong to call all Christians Catholics

no, the rituals are not that different from other varients of Christianity. sure there are differences but not enough to consider them a totally different religion. which is what it seems you are doing.
Oh...so they should be lumped into Christianity because they do share some similar beliefs? Ok, I see where you are coming from.

*pauses to marvel at the wide variety of posters all agreeing at once*
Amazing what can unite people. :D
[/offtopic]
Not sure I would agree with the "most Christian city is the Vatican" part, but Catholicism is definitely underneath the Christian umbrella.

Um...ok. Catholics think they need confess their sins to a priest and they think Mary is a holy figure. Good enough for you?err... Christians believe in confession, but some are taught to confess to God, and/or those you wronged, and/or any authoritive figure, and Mary is a Holy Figure. she is held in reverence by alot of varients of Christianity.

Oh...so they should be lumped into Christianity because they do share some similar beliefs? Ok, I see where you are coming from.
yep. you can walk up to any catholic and ask "are you a Christian", and they will all say yes.

but walk up to any Christian and ask them "are you a Catholic" and you will find alot of no's.

yep. you can walk up to any catholic and ask "are you a Christian", and they will all say yes.

but walk up to any Christian and ask them "are you a Catholic" and you will find alot of no's.
I am only saying Catholics=/=Christians because every Catholic I talk to says they are Catholic, not a Christian. I usually do lump them together...but I find arguing/debating to be fun.

Could obtuseness this profound be unintentional? One shudders to think.

I am only saying Catholics=/=Christians because every Catholic I talk to says they are Catholic, not a Christian.
and every Catholic I talk to are Christians first Catholic second.

Um...ok. Catholics think they need confess their sins to a priest and they think Mary is a holy figure. Good enough for you?

Mary gave birth to Jesus, meaning she was touched by God. She herself however, was not divine.

This is one argument. Interesting point: Even in Catholicism, there are people that refute and argue each others points over what you just said, and they regard each other as loons.


Saying "Catholics" think Mary is a holy figure is pretty vague. Everyone sees Mary as a holy figure. She's in the bible. She gave birth to the savior of humanity. She is holy.

The question is actually her divinity, and, as I said, there is argument over that in every single Christian religion, including Catholicism.

Here's an interesting point to ponder: The biggest difference I've noticed between Christianity and Juddhaism (did I misspell that?) is that Jews believe Jesus was divine, while Christians believe that merely being the son of God does not make him divine, and he was mortal, as was his mother.


In FACT, Muslims worship the same God as Christians...
It's almost as if at least 70% of all modern religions are exactly the same, and only differentiated by how they worship! Differences of believe are so scattered, poorly defined, and in some cases, just not present, that it's hard to know the difference between any religions anymore.


BTW - When a Catholic confesses to a Priest, he is using the Priest as a vessel of God, to carry word of their.. what's the word?.... that they're sorry for being sinners.

Christians all say "Sorry" to God.
Catholics just speak to God "through" the Priest, while most other Christian religions pray to God directly.

Non-Christian religions:
Wicca
Buddhism
Rastaferian


Perhaps you should discuss the differences between ACTUAL different religions, instead of why a crow isn't a bird.

I'm with Gartref. This guy has to be giving you all shit...

Even so, maybe it IS that hard to understand, so how about this one: I am from Texas. Texas is in America. This would make me a Texan, as well as an American. Consider Christianity as one big, happy nation, like America now. Stay with me. And Catholicism is a state within it, like Texas. Being a member of the one does not disqualify you from the other. Yes? YES.

Catholic=Christian

Mary gave birth to Jesus, meaning she was touched by God. She herself however, was not divine.

This is one argument. Interesting point: Even in Catholicism, there are people that refute and argue each others points over what you just said, and they regard each other as loons.


Saying "Catholics" think Mary is a holy figure is pretty vague. Everyone sees Mary as a holy figure. She's in the bible. She gave birth to the savior of humanity. She is holy.

The question is actually her divinity, and, as I said, there is argument over that in every single Christian religion, including Catholicism.

Here's an interesting point to ponder: The biggest difference I've noticed between Christianity and Juddhaism (did I misspell that?) is that Jews believe Jesus was divine, while Christians believe that merely being the son of God does not make him divine, and he was mortal, as was his mother.


In FACT, Muslims worship the same God as Christians...
It's almost as if at least 70% of all modern religions are exactly the same, and only differentiated by how they worship! Differences of believe are so scattered, poorly defined, and in some cases, just not present, that it's hard to know the difference between any religions anymore.


BTW - When a Catholic confesses to a Priest, he is using the Priest as a vessel of God, to carry word of their.. what's the word?.... that they're sorry for being sinners.

Christians all say "Sorry" to God.
Catholics just speak to God "through" the Priest, while most other Christian religions pray to God directly.

Non-Christian religions:
Wicca
Buddhism
Rastaferian


Perhaps you should discuss the differences between ACTUAL different religions, instead of why a crow isn't a bird.
Nicely put.

*nods* It's generally a subset of Christian called Marianists who elevate Mary to divine status, as I understand it.

To the OP...I think you're confusing the idea that most Christians do not consider themselves any "sect." Not true. Unless you're non-denominational, there's nothing that's just "plain Christian." Here let me demonstrate.

CHRISTIANS: All believe Jesus Christ is their Savior and Son of God.
-Catholics: Have the pope, more emphasis on saints, virgin Mary
-Protestants: various sects but no central figure like the pope
-Orthodox: I don't even know, but they have different beliefs from Protestants and Catholics
-Non-denominational and other: non-mainstream views

Graphically speaking:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7772/christianitynk7.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Given this information, you can see that Catholicism and Christianity are not in conflict in anyway whatsoever because there is really only one mandate that dictates whether you are Christian or not and that is the belief of Jesus as the Messiah. Catholics possess this belief and they are hence Christian. The differences between Catholicism and Christianity you're purporting are most likely the differences between Protestantism and Catholicism, which are both Christian, understand?

Given this information, you can see that Catholicism and Christianity are not in conflict in anyway whatsoever because there is really only one mandate that dictates whether you are Christian or not and that is the belief of Jesus as the Messiah. Catholics possess this belief and they are hence Christian. The differences between Catholicism and Christianity you're purporting are most likely the differences between Protestantism and Catholicism, which are both Christian, understand?
Well to be honest I understood quite a few posts ago, but when people are being hostile, I find it hard to just say "You're right, I am wrong".

Anyway, I usually do think of Christianity in terms of non-denomiational as thats what I was (and my mom still is) two years ago.

Well to be honest I understood quite a few posts ago, but when people are being hostile, I find it hard to just say "You're right, I am wrong".

That, right there, is the fundamental cause of so many problems in this world.

You're not alone in that.

Well to be honest I understood quite a few posts ago, but when people are being hostile, I find it hard to just say "You're right, I am wrong".

Anyway, I usually do think of Christianity in terms of non-denomiational as thats what I was (and my mom still is) two years ago.

Well, does my graphical representation still rock then?

People here are mostly hostile because the misconception of a differentiation between Christianity and Catholicism has been rehashed many times...I guess we have anti-Catholic indoctrination to thank for that. In any case, since we're both atheists, it really doesn't matter except for scholarly purposes.

Well, does my graphical representation still rock then?
Rocks my socks off.

People here are mostly hostile because the misconception of a differentiation between Christianity and Catholicism has been rehashed many times...I guess we have anti-Catholic indoctrination to thank for that. In any case, since we're both atheists, it really doesn't matter except for scholarly purposes.
Oh, ok. I haven't started spending any real amount of time on this forum until like last week.

Edit: looks like the thread was finished, but I just typed this all up and damnit, I'm leaving it.

If Catholics=Christians, then whats the point of having different names? Oh yes, they believe some different things.

I fail to see how an entire city of Catholics could be Christian, thats all I am saying.

You can call Catholicism a sect of Christianity, but when describing a Catholic or a town full of Catholics, I don't think you would say they are Christian as they have different beliefs.

You seem to be having trouble because you are stuck on certain words and ideas...so lets do different words!
hmm....I'm in a math mood right now.

Okay. So we have "polygons" right? Within that category, there is a group called "triangles", "quadrilaterals", "pentagons", etc.

"triangles" breaks down into "Isosceles", "Scalene", and "Equilateral"

So what we are left with is this: All isosceles triangles are triangles, but not all triangles are isosceles. Similarly, all trianges are polygons, but not all polygons are triangles.


Now, lets change "Polygons" to "Christians". K?

"triangles" can be "Protestant", "quadrilateral" can be "Catholic", Pentagons can be "Coptic", etc. k?

Isosceles can be baptist, Scalene can be methodist, equilateral can be congregationalist.

A Scalene triangle can be accuratly described as being a Scalene triangle, a triangle, and a polygon. All are accurate.

A methodist can be accuratly described as being methodist, protestant, and christian. They are all accurate.

Similarly, all quadrilaterals can be described as "quadrilateral" or "polygon"

Similarly, all Catholics can be described as "Catholic" or "Christian"

Edit: looks like the thread was finished, but I just typed this all up and damnit, I'm leaving it.

No thread is finished until I make an inane sub-reference. ;)

No thread is finished until I make an inane sub-reference. ;)

well sub-reference away, my friend!

well sub-reference away, my friend!

Thanks, Pythagoras!!

I know this topic is basically settled but I think Eurogrovia will be interested to know (and it will explain alot to him) that the term Catholic means all encompassing. It was adopted when christianity, after having diversified, if you will, over the first few centuries (with individual groups practicing differently) was basically unified and standardized and a leader (the pope) elected. The terms Catholic and Christian were at that point interchangable and would remain so for a millenium or so until disagrements in the church led to various groups splintering (and subsplintering) off from the mother church. Many of the practices that Eurogrovia thinks of as making Catholicism 'different' from what he originally thought of as 'christianity' are the very things that led to these scisms within the church (the crucifix, the sacrament ritual, etc.).

Don't forget the selling of indulgences. What can I say, Luther was right to protest.

eurgrovia, think of it in these terms:

You have a country, and a province of that country. Would you refer to some one as..lets say...an Iowan...or as an American?

Don't forget the selling of indulgences. What can I say, Luther was right to protest.

Darn tootin' he was. The Church was rife with abuses and corruption then. Still is to a certain extent.

I thought the main difference between Catholisim and the rest of Christianity is that the Catholics consider only themselves as catholic... um... okay, let me explain.

A catholic priest is one who has been ordained by a priest, who has been ordained... who was ordained by one of apostles. And that you can only connect to God through catholic priests. I think there's an additional clause that the Catholic church added is that the priest must be in full communion with the Priest of Rome (the Pope).

The thing is that other churches also consider themselves catholic eg. the Anglican , Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, and other churchs all consider themselves catholic.

... I think.

You actually have it sort of backwards there... Catholicism is the original form of Christianity... all other Christian sects evolved or splintered off of what we now call Catholicism. But as already pointed out, all fall under the general heading 'Christianity'.

Er, no. The Orthodox and Coptic Christian divisions are just as old and as "original" as Catholicism. They're also closer in teaching to the early, unorganized Christian Sects, from what we can glean of their histories.

Er, no. The Orthodox and Coptic Christian divisions are just as old and as "original" as Catholicism. They're also closer in teaching to the early, unorganized Christian Sects, from what we can glean of their histories.The catholic church is an orthodox church.

There are fundamental differences between Catholicism and Christianity.

Well then sir, you are an utter moron. There are fundamental differences between Catholicism and Protestantism. Both are Christian. In fact, for a long time, in western Europe, Catholicism was the only kind of Christianity.

Could obtuseness this profound be unintentional? One shudders to think.

It's a refreshing change from variations on "More Reasons Why |\/|05l3|\/|5 r 3b1l" threads though, must admit.

A notable difference between Catholics and other Christian denominations is they are formally hierarchical and rely on numerous ceremonies and rites with much pageantry, unlike the austere tendencies of Protestant sects.

The catholic church is an orthodox church.

Well, not exactly. It's a church with an orthodoxy, in that it has a standardised set of beliefs. But it is not Orthodox, as that term is used to refer to the Russian and Greek Orthodox Churches (and a few others). They use a different formula for calculating the date of Easter each year, accept Icons, and, I believe, have married clergy. They're significantly different from the Catholic Church (any Orthodox out there, can you expand on this?).

-Orthodox: I don't even know, but they have different beliefs from Protestants and Catholics


Orthodox theology is extremely similar to catholic theology: the main differences are about gerarchy and relationship with nations.

The orthodoxes don't recognise the absolute primate of the Bishop of Rome (the Pope), although they recently said they COULD accept a "primus inter pares" position of the pope in a council composed by all the primates (this would include catholic and orthodox metropolites, ex. the archbishop of Milan, the patriarch of Venice, the catholicos of Georgia, the patriarch of All Russia, etc. etc.) .
This is because of the tensions that lead to the Great Schism, linked also to politics: the orthodox churches supported the Eastern Roman Empire, while the catholic church supported the Holy Roman Empire.

Also, while the catholic church is a supernational church, the orthodoxes have national autokephalia: that is, each nation has its own orthodox church, that is independent from the other orthodox churches, although they recognise a primary role to the archbishop of Costantinopolis.

Catholics=Christians, although Christians do not necessarily = Catholics.

If Catholics=Christians, then whats the point of having different names? Oh yes, they believe some different things.

I fail to see how an entire city of Catholics could be Christian, thats all I am saying.

*ignores Kat's pretty picture and tries to help*

a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square. :D

I'm with Gartref. This guy has to be giving you all shit...

Not necessarily. There really are people this willfully ignorant. As a former Catholic, I ran into a lot of them. They insisted that Catholics were not Christian, and refused to believe otherwise no matter how much you argued with them.

It's easier now that I've moved on to panentheistic universalism. Just tell people that you're a panentheistic universalist, and they either say "Cool!", or make some excuse to be elsewhere. :D

Not necessarily. There really are people this willfully ignorant. As a former Catholic, I ran into a lot of them. They insisted that Catholics were not Christian, and refused to believe otherwise no matter how much you argued with them.

It's easier now that I've moved on to panentheistic universalism. Just tell people that you're a panentheistic universalist, and they either say "Cool!", or make some excuse to be elsewhere. :D

Cool! :)

Not necessarily. There really are people this willfully ignorant. As a former Catholic, I ran into a lot of them. They insisted that Catholics were not Christian, and refused to believe otherwise no matter how much you argued with them.

It's easier now that I've moved on to panentheistic universalism. Just tell people that you're a panentheistic universalist, and they either say "Cool!", or make some excuse to be elsewhere. :D

True, true.
I am a Baptist and excluding all the people who simply think Catholic and Christian are two seperate religions many Evangelical protestants will flat out deny that Catholics are actual Christians. They meet my personal definition, we just split on doctrine. Go figure.

Mary gave birth to Jesus, meaning she was touched by God. She herself however, was not divine.

:eek:

Is no-one going to raise the thorny issue here about the misuse of the term 'Catholic' throughout this thread when in most cases 'Roman Catholic' should have been used instead?

Some, but not all, Christians are Catholic.
Some, but not all, Catholics are Roman Catholic.

Is no-one going to raise the thorny issue here about the misuse of the term 'Catholic' throughout this thread when in most cases 'Roman Catholic' should have been used instead?

Some, but not all, Christians are Catholic.
Some, but not all, Catholics are Roman Catholic.

Shh. Stop spreading facts, BWO.

No one wants to hear about the various Catholic Rites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particular_Church).

Shh. Stop spreading facts, BWO.

Sorry.

I keep forgetting that this place is run by the NSA as an outlet for their misinformation campaigns.

Then whats the point of calling them different names? If you only want to point out that they happen to believe in and God and a Jesus, then sure call them Christian, but for the sake of clarification you have to call them Catholic.

Right. There are no Christians. There are Baptists, Coptics, Orthodox, Catholic, and other religions that call themselves Christian, but none are the "official" christianity. Same with Muslims. Some are Shi'ite, some are Sunni, some are sufi, some are psycho, and they all call themselves Muslim, but there is no official Muslim religion. Thanks for taking one more step toward fragmenting and destroying organized religion. Once we get rid of that we'll be much better off.

/me shoots thread until it dies a horrible, horrible death

Mary gave birth to Jesus, meaning she was touched by God. She herself however, was not divine.

Sounds like more than just touching happened.

To the OP...I think you're confusing the idea that most Christians do not consider themselves any "sect." Not true. Unless you're non-denominational, there's nothing that's just "plain Christian." Here let me demonstrate.

CHRISTIANS: All believe Jesus Christ is their Savior and Son of God.
-Catholics: Have the pope, more emphasis on saints, virgin Mary
-Protestants: various sects but no central figure like the pope
-Orthodox: I don't even know, but they have different beliefs from Protestants and Catholics
-Non-denominational and other: non-mainstream views

Graphically speaking:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7772/christianitynk7.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Given this information, you can see that Catholicism and Christianity are not in conflict in anyway whatsoever because there is really only one mandate that dictates whether you are Christian or not and that is the belief of Jesus as the Messiah. Catholics possess this belief and they are hence Christian. The differences between Catholicism and Christianity you're purporting are most likely the differences between Protestantism and Catholicism, which are both Christian, understand?


Not really quite accurate;

Catholic is from the greek Katholikos meaning, the Mother Church, or the main Church. When you say I am Catholic. You are saying "I belong to the Mother/Main Church."

Also with your graph Protestantism stems off Catholicism it is not it's own starting point. Same Orthodoxism stems from Catholicism (the schism).

It would be more along the lines;

Christianity-
1) Non-denominational (Gnostics, Hebraic christians, etc..)
2) Roman Catholicism (exists since it's creation by Saint Peter)
3) Orthodoxism (result of schism when the east/west couldn't decide on Pope)
4) 1400-1500 years after birth of Roman Catholic Church, Protestantism arises



That is it roughly in a nutshell. The Roman Catholic Church sees it's creator of it's order as Saint Peter who was told by Jesus Christ (Peter you are my rock, upon you I will build my church) , the first Bishop of Rome (Pope).

Roman Catholics are probably the oldest organized christian denomination being created around 50 A.D in comparison to Protestantism not being around until over a thousand years later.

You can call Catholicism a sect of Christianity, but when describing a Catholic or a town full of Catholics, I don't think you would say they are Christian as they have different beliefs.

Catholicism is the root of nearly all forms of Christianity. Nearly every sect of Christianity split off from the Catholic Church (or from another sect that broke off from the Church). I except some of the American traditions, Mormonism, Jehovah's' Witness, and Christian Science, because they kind of developed on their own. But just about every branch of Christianity can be traced back to the Catholic Church.

And yes, a Catholic town is Christian. Or, at least, the majority of its residents are. So, :p.

Not really quite accurate;

Catholic is from the greek Katholikos meaning, the Mother Church, or the main Church. When you say I am Catholic. You are saying "I belong to the Mother/Main Church."

Also with your graph Protestantism stems off Catholicism it is not it's own starting point. Same Orthodoxism stems from Catholicism (the schism).

It would be more along the lines;

Christianity-
1) Non-denominational (Gnostics, Hebraic christians, etc..)
2) Roman Catholicism (exists since it's creation by Saint Peter)
3) Orthodoxism (result of schism when the east/west couldn't decide on Pope)
4) 1400-1500 years after birth of Roman Catholic Church, Protestantism arises



That is it roughly in a nutshell. The Roman Catholic Church sees it's creator of it's order as Saint Peter who was told by Jesus Christ (Peter you are my rock, upon you I will build my church) , the first Bishop of Rome (Pope).

Roman Catholics are probably the oldest organized christian denomination being created around 50 A.D in comparison to Protestantism not being around until over a thousand years later.

i dont see the orthodox churches as coming from the (roman) cathlolic church. i see that "all chrisitanity" (more or less) split to form the roman catholic and orthodox branches. (not really all christianity but the vast majority of christians). the protestant churches branched off from the roman catholic side of that split.

the roman catholic church is by far the biggest branch of christianity, making the claim that they arent christian particularly wrong.

Not really quite accurate;

Catholic is from the greek Katholikos meaning, the Mother Church, or the main Church. When you say I am Catholic. You are saying "I belong to the Mother/Main Church."

Also with your graph Protestantism stems off Catholicism it is not it's own starting point. Same Orthodoxism stems from Catholicism (the schism).

It would be more along the lines;

Christianity-
1) Non-denominational (Gnostics, Hebraic christians, etc..)
2) Roman Catholicism (exists since it's creation by Saint Peter)
3) Orthodoxism (result of schism when the east/west couldn't decide on Pope)
4) 1400-1500 years after birth of Roman Catholic Church, Protestantism arises



That is it roughly in a nutshell. The Roman Catholic Church sees it's creator of it's order as Saint Peter who was told by Jesus Christ (Peter you are my rock, upon you I will build my church) , the first Bishop of Rome (Pope).

Roman Catholics are probably the oldest organized christian denomination being created around 50 A.D in comparison to Protestantism not being around until over a thousand years later.

...
Wrong.
Catholic means "Universal" not "Mother". Catholic
The use of the term was to indicate the all inclusiveness of the Church for Gentiles that it was not the Jewish Christians, or the Gnostics.
It was not the Roman Catholic Church for quite some time.



Papacy came a great time later and it is only in retrospect that the Bishops of Rome are called Pope. So the title of Pope does not chronical the history of the Catholic Church, the Church funtioned for a long time with no Papacy.

The Original Church, the first Pauline Church was Nothing like the Modern Roman Catholic Church.
As a matter of fact it is Ignatius in 110 AD who first uses the term "Catholic" for the Church. In the usage by Ignatius we see the term in context to be of dual meaning, Universal/Orthodox...universally accepting upholding the long standing traditions. It was at this time that the schism between the Eastern Orthodox and the Western Chruch(ruled in Rome) was occuring.
When Ignatius called the Church "Catholic" he meant all of the Church, Eastern and Western.
So to be historically correct tothe usage of the word the Catholic Church has not been whole since the Eastern Split. As the eastern Orthodox Church was part of the Original Church...the Catholic or Universal Church.

Isn't Catholicism Christian?

No, of course it isn't *runs off to find a chick tract* I will find evidence!

eurgrovia, think of it in these terms:

You have a country, and a province of that country. Would you refer to some one as..lets say...an Iowan...or as an American?

Neither, the correct term is 'damn foreigner'. :D

As a matter of fact it is Ignatius in 110 AD who first uses the term "Catholic" for the Church. In the usage by Ignatius we see the term in context to be of dual meaning, Universal/Orthodox...universally accepting upholding the long standing traditions. It was at this time that the schism between the Eastern Orthodox and the Western Chruch(ruled in Rome) was occuring.The schism between Catholicism and most other orthodox churches came in 1054 (Assyrian and Oriental orthodox churches already split away in the 5th century CE).

No, of course it isn't *runs off to find a chick tract*Yeah, that's what the Mormons always try to tell me.