NationStates Jolt Archive

I've noticed that a lot of spree killers and serial killers seem to be loners.

Is there something about modern society that depersonalizes, dehumanizes, and isolates individuals to the extent that they are so warped that killing complete strangers out of hand comes easy to them?

I was listening to a broadcast of BBC World, and an expert from the Netherlands was saying that while they don't have the spree killers that the US has (although other countries besides the US certainly have), they have a problem with "family drama" where a husband kills his wife and all the children - usually a family that is socially isolated that devolves into a violently dysfunctional end.

Other studies have shown that long term solitary confinement in prison provokes deep psychosis.

As social animals, is there something about our society that promotes our depersonalization, dehumanization, and isolation? Which then results in violent psychosis?

And as a side question, are you a loner with no real social group?

I think the weakening of such subsidiary institutions such as family, church and community while the faceless state grows more powerful is behind all of this.

This is sort of a mute point, though you have a point you have to look at it as Humanity is evolving socially.

Actually we live in an incredibly safe, secure society in the Western world. Just 200 years ago we had what slavery, then there was World War II and the Holocaust, World War I, then some time before that the repressive Colonial Age where many people were killed, the medieval ages, etc.

This is actually the safest age humanity has seen. There will always be individuals in society that go over the brink, statistically things are actually very safe for the population we have. We're actually lucky there is not more mass killings taking place on a daily basis considering the population.

It is easy: most of the knowledge we have about how we should live, how we should behave towards others, how we should think, is pretty much fabricated and taught to us since birth.

People hardly knows that, but most of the things we hold as absolute truths arent. They are just teaching we got from our society, and we never dared criticized.

Now, these individuals probabily had the same education we had. Maybe this boy was normal until he went to the USA. But after facing bullies, isolation, social discrimination, scorn, humiliation, he started to lose all those peels we have in our minds caled conscience and just started to become "less civilized".

Why should he respect others when no one respects him? Why shouldnt he hurt others, when others hurt him? Why should he likes others when no one likes him? Why should he respect, love and protect the persons who ignore, humiliate and hurt him emotionaly, that is the worst kind of damage you can do to someone?

We are social animals, yes. That is why we struggle to become involved in our comunity and with our equals. When a human grows in a good, nice, confortable and respectfull enviroment, unless he has mental problems caused by trauma or deceases, he will grow to be a good human being.

Now, humans can also learn. This human soul, which tries to strive for good and acceptance (specially acceptance) may also learn how to survive alone. And that is when the problems begin. The teachings we hold dear, like respect for others, become less important. The civilized laws we believe are writen in stone on everyone´s mind just disapear, or had never been taught to these individuals.

And humans have desires. When you cant fulfill them by social standarts, you look for back doors. When you cant find the back doors, you look for ilegal ways. When you cant do it through ilegal ways, you will probabily resort to pure and raw violence.

And that is probabily what happened to this man. He tried for years, but always failed. Sometimes he got things right, but the number of times he failed were overwhealming, and his mind and his conscience just couldnt handle it. He broke, and something was the last drop that made him snap and decides that after years of people ignoring him, not helping him, humiliating him, they just had to face some of the sufering he had.

Now, this person doesnt even care about who he shoots. He has a ME/THEM mentality. He was so alone and lonely for so much time that he doesnt even make distinctions towards individuals. He just feels no one has ever loved him, or helped him, specially when he needed the most help.

And that is why he kills anyone without any feelings. The "others" never helped him, and so they deserve to suffer. No one helped him, so everyone will suffer. While he was suffering, everyone around was laughing, playing, developing and having relationships, while no one looked at him and tried to help.

That is why he shoots. And that is why he dies. And that is also why he kills himself: after fulfilling some of his revenge, he gets his utmost revenge by killing his own life and not becoming a prisoner and that way, stops society from geting her revenge and justice.

Of course I have more to say, but this is too long already.

And as a side question, are you a loner with no real social group?

Yes, and I'm crazy! :D

I don't think that so much. We probably have more individualism and more stresses and that could increase the psycho problems because these people feel less connected, however, I do not think that modern society has some horrible ailment afflicting it. If one looks at past societies, we will find that violence was incredibly common though so I do not think that human violence is some new threat or danger. I would not be surprised that if we looked at the statistics, that on average there is less violence today and might even bet that there is less violence today than in the past. The difference is that we just get more caught up about it.

I am a loner but I have a social group. I do often feel distant from people and I also often feel spiteful as well. I do not think I will shoot up anybody though.

I would argue that the reverse is true. Since a high proportion of spree killers and serial killers are sociopaths, they would not associate as much with other people, due to their inability to empathize with them.

And as a side question, are you a loner with no real social group?

I tend to spend most of my time alone, although I do have some friends and a family that supports me.

This is sort of a mute point, though you have a point you have to look at it as Humanity is evolving socially.
Moot. Moot point. :p

Moot. Moot point. :p

No, let it be a mute point :p

Wait, you didn't like 300...I forgot I was ignoring you.

/Rhaomi moot

I've noticed that a lot of spree killers and serial killers seem to be loners.

Is there something about modern society that depersonalizes, dehumanizes, and isolates individuals to the extent that they are so warped that killing complete strangers out of hand comes easy to them?Sort of, yes.

Many theorists believe that it's related to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Most of the killings throughout history have been by individuals just trying to get what they need to survive - food, clothing, and shelter. Now that we, as a society, can provide people with these things, the next need came into play, where people killed to secure these things against what they considered threats.
Once society took on the role of securing these things, for the most part, the next need came into play - the need for love. Killing for love became a somewhat common phenomenon.
The next need is the need for fame. How many people have killed for fame in the past 20 or 30 years? Lots.
The last need has yet to be a reason for people to kill. "Self-actualization". But it probably will be, at some point.

The wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs explains the hierachy more broadly.

I really think shit like this has been going on as long as people have been around.

I wonder EO...no, I mean, RO...if role playing many different personalities in the same place leads to depersonalisation and isolation as well. Thoughts?

I saw an interview with a couple people from VA Tech who new that shooter. They said that he had an imaginary girlfriend called Jelly and that he said she was a super model. I laughed pretty hard when I heard that, but then I remembered how horrible the shooting was and I could laugh any more. Nevertheless, I changed the channel to comedy central.

As social animals, is there something about our society that promotes our depersonalization, dehumanization, and isolation? Which then results in violent psychosis?Many factors could be involved. the sensationalizing of violence and those that perpetuate violence. the isolation of any who seem different, the wanting to belong, but not knowing how to become accepted. it can all lead to isolation and low self esteem. add to that societies views on certain acts and you have people afraid of contact because of how it will be interpreted, afraid to fail so they don't try, the desire to shelter people to the point of being afraid to hurt their feelings.

add to that the need to group people can cause the loss of individualism and you have a recipie for a mental stew that most people don't want to touch.

And as a side question, are you a loner with no real social group?I have no real social group. but I won't push anyone away.

I think the weakening of such subsidiary institutions such as family, church and community while the faceless state grows more powerful is behind all of this.Could be, the lack of the foundations family, church and community provide could be a factor.

This is sort of a mute point, though you have a point you have to look at it as Humanity is evolving socially.

Actually we live in an incredibly safe, secure society in the Western world. Just 200 years ago we had what slavery, then there was World War II and the Holocaust, World War I, then some time before that the repressive Colonial Age where many people were killed, the medieval ages, etc.

This is actually the safest age humanity has seen. There will always be individuals in society that go over the brink, statistically things are actually very safe for the population we have. We're actually lucky there is not more mass killings taking place on a daily basis considering the population.
at the opposite end tho, you have had more people working to make something of their lives back then. Sacrificing alot and willing to sacrifice to obtain their dreams. whether it be a peice of land, a loving family, or even wealth and fame, people back then worked harder to obtain their goals.

Nowdays, you have more people expecting to be given everything while sacrificing as little as possible. I deserve this, I deserve that and I want it for free and you're going to give it to me.

we, nowdays, seem more concerned not just about the 'me, me, me' but also the who's to blame if I should fail. when something goes wrong, instead of fixing the problem, we would rather place the blame and punish the scapegoat. The problem is with Religion, the problem is with the Administration, the problem is with the Republicans, Muslims, Conservatives, Liberals, Atheists, that country, that Nation, Music, Games, Movies, the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

The Real Problem is we get so focused on placing the blame we waste alot of resources blaming others before we even get to thinking about fixing the problem.

According to Jared Diamond who wrote Guns, Germs, and Steel it's natural for humans to kill strangers as hunter gatherers. However, as populations increased we supressed to kill strangers to make sure we didn't kill each other through manipulations like religion, the state, the idea of a common nationality or laws.

Also I don't think that we are neccesarily social animals. As hunter-gatherers we barely saw more than 100 people in our lives so most of our life was alone or at least with very few people.

I don't feel like arguing more GGS now so I'll be lazy and say read the book.

Random end point: Northern Borders, have by any chance read or heard of Giorgio Agamben? He talks about very similar things about the other like you do.

I really think shit like this has been going on as long as people have been around.

Yes, it has. The diference is that in the past, the guns werent as good, and the regular people around ALSO carried guns.

I dont know when regular people stoped carrying guns, but I guess that in the west of the US, it was until about 1920...

According to Jared Diamond who wrote Guns, Germs, and Steel it's natural for humans to kill strangers as hunter gatherers. However, as populations increased we supressed to kill strangers to make sure we didn't kill each other through manipulations like religion, the state, the idea of a common nationality or laws.

Also I don't think that we are neccesarily social animals. As hunter-gatherers we barely saw more than 100 people in our lives so most of our life was alone or at least with very few people.

I don't feel like arguing more GGS now so I'll be lazy and say read the book.

Random end point: Northern Borders, have by any chance read or heard of Giorgio Agamben? He talks about very similar things about the other like you do.

Giorgio Agamben? I dont remember reading him. But I have readed Maslow works, which I find incredible, and do agree that as our societies have evolved, so have our basic needs and desires.

About being social animals, we dont need to meet 50000 people in our lives. In fact, I think its the exact oposite: in our society where everything is shallow, we are even more lonely compared to when we were in the past. By meeting few and important people, every single one of them counts, and you create bonds far superior, stronger and healthier with them. Socialization is not about numbers, but about quality.

We ARE social animals, but we're geared towards groups of 100-200. When we get above that we regard most of them as "them".

I wonder EO...no, I mean, RO...if role playing many different personalities in the same place leads to depersonalisation and isolation as well. Thoughts?

No, it enhances my interaction with people.

This is a roleplaying game. I also do live roleplaying at conventions.

I dont think its a moot point, while we are living in a better age than any other there are still problems which the O.P. has mentioned and which need to be addressed, namely isolation and alienation and there has been a breakdown of community in my experience in Western developed nations. Its my belief that when something is wrong, people have a right to complain, not to just accept it as the way it is and not rock the boat.

As for psycho killers, I would postulate that theyre loners since they dont need inter personal relations, people are objects to them and so are only to be used when necessary.

Is there something about modern society that depersonalizes, dehumanizes, and isolates individuals
I have tremendous social anxiety, so I'm a big fan of this feature of modern society.

I've noticed that a lot of spree killers and serial killers seem to be loners.

Is there something about modern society that depersonalizes, dehumanizes, and isolates individuals to the extent that they are so warped that killing complete strangers out of hand comes easy to them?

I was listening to a broadcast of BBC World, and an expert from the Netherlands was saying that while they don't have the spree killers that the US has (although other countries besides the US certainly have), they have a problem with "family drama" where a husband kills his wife and all the children - usually a family that is socially isolated that devolves into a violently dysfunctional end.

Other studies have shown that long term solitary confinement in prison provokes deep psychosis.

As social animals, is there something about our society that promotes our depersonalization, dehumanization, and isolation? Which then results in violent psychosis?

And as a side question, are you a loner with no real social group?

This has been going on since the industrial revolution. Not that pre-industrial societies don't have their own social problems, but the dissolution of families, the isolation of individuals, and the general coarsening of the public is a side effect of people having the opportunity to provide for themselves materially without any help. Then they neglect the importance of social and spiritual health, because patriarchal societies see such needs as inherent weakness.