NationStates Jolt Archive

UN: Hundreds of Somali Civilians Murdered or Raped, (since the Ethiopian invasion)
By Ed Johnson

April 13 (Bloomberg) -- Hundreds of Somali civilians have been killed or raped in the past month with fighting in the Horn of Africa nation at its heaviest since the outbreak of civil war more than a decade ago, the United Nations said.

More than 200,000 residents have fled the capital, Mogadishu, since February and a truce signed earlier this month between government forces and clan militiamen has already collapsed, John Holmes, the UN's top humanitarian affairs official, said yesterday.

sources: YahooNEWS/Bloomberg/OccNfinally the UN is speaking up..

Big deal. Another UN report. I'll take them seriously when they actually do SOMETHING.

Damn. I read in the Economist shortly after the initial conflict between the Islamic Courts and the Somali government (with Ethiopian backing) that the post-war conflict would turn into an Iraq-style insurgency operation, with an unrestrained Ethiopian military commiting atrocities across the board, and the remnants of the Islamic courts commiting to tactics learned from Iraqi and Afghan veterans. The Somali government, as could be expected, would be considered largely illegitimate by the population, which could only exercise authority through the Ethiopians.

All of which seems to be coming to pass.

The UN and AU have peacekeepers on the ground. A force of 1200 African Union peacekeepers from Uganda have been deployed so far. 4050 are still to be deployed, from Nigeria, Malawi and Burundi.

Let's hope and pray they'll be enough to keep the Ethiopians and Islamists from each other's throats, so Somali's can try and pick up the pieces of thier country. Personally, I feel it's not enough. They need more peacekeepers on the ground, fast.

UNNN: United Nations News Network
We don't actually do anything about it, but we report it! United States help us please!

I couldn't find it on Yahoo. Can't you just post a link?

UNNN: United Nations News Network
We don't actually do anything about it, but we report it! United States help us please!

What? You expect the UN reporters to don Blue Helmets and stand on a Blue Line? The UN is in fact trying to help in Somalia, if you would bother to read into the conflict.

Can't you just post a link?This one is about a 18 years old girl.. gang raped until she lost conscience.
http://allafrica.com/stories/200704150064.html
her picture on the Ethiopian review Forum
http://www.ethiopianreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2093&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=254fe6685ba68fd3a92eb813640acd0c

more to come..

I couldn't find it on Yahoo.http://finance.yahoo.com/search?type=&s=Somali+Civilians+Murdered&r=50&=Search

And what are you implying Oceandrive?

Wait I can guess. "The Islamic courts shouldn't have been kicked out even though they were setting up a theocracy"

Whatever.

And what are you implying Oceandrive?

Wait I can guess. "The Islamic courts shouldn't have been kicked out even though they were setting up a theocracy"

Whatever.

..... yeah. I'd say that's pretty much what he's saying. That and the above wouldn't have happened had there been no invasion. I'd wager that's his overall point.

finally the UN is speaking up..

Its nice that the UN is finally drawing attention to this. At least with the ICU, there was security and peace.

UNNN: United Nations News Network
We don't actually do anything about it, but we report it! United States help us please!

The UN's new slogan:

We report, you do something about it :D

..... yeah. I'd say that's pretty much what he's saying. That and the above wouldn't have happened had there been no invasion. I'd wager that's his overall point.

And ther woud not hve been an invasion if not for the Islamic Court Union or whatever they call themselves.

finally the UN is speaking up..

yes, but when will they actually do something....The UN needs more teeth

Its nice that the UN is finally drawing attention to this. At least with the ICU, there was security and peace.

*dies of laughter*

This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts. Please try again in 6 seconds.

And ther woud not hve been an invasion if not for the Islamic Court Union or whatever they call themselves.

That's a retarded statement. The Courts were domestic and homegrown. They had domestic support, enough to give them credibility amongst their own people. Are you saying people shouldn't be allowed to choose who they want in power?

That's a retarded statement. The Courts were domestic and homegrown. They had domestic support, enough to give them credibility amongst their own people. Are you saying people shouldn't be allowed to choose who they want in power?

Its a simple deduction. Look at it from Ethiopia's point of view.

finally the UN is speaking up..
And doing absolutely nothing about it.

And doing absolutely nothing about it.

Did ya expect anything else from them? And people wonder I do not like the UN when it comes to solving world crisis!

Did ya expect anything else from them? And people wonder I do not like the UN when it comes to solving world crisis!

I'm not sure anyone actually suggested that they could solve all the worlds problems. I believe it is probably better for countries to team up to solve problems rather than going it on their own though eh? More resources and all that.

I'm not sure anyone actually suggested that they could solve all the worlds problems. I believe it is probably better for countries to team up to solve problems rather than going it on their own though eh? More resources and all that.

And nothing still gets done even when attempted to solve problems like umm war.

That's a retarded statement. The Courts were domestic and homegrown. They had domestic support, enough to give them credibility amongst their own people. Are you saying people shouldn't be allowed to choose who they want in power?
Yes but then they decided to expand to places where they WEREN'T wanted.
Thats when they doomed themselves.

Just another day in Africa. So why get all worked up? Not like this didn't happen before or won't happen again.

And doing absolutely nothing about it.very True.

if we take all perspectives in consideration.. all the angles.

So far.. the UN has turned-a blind-eye to the great human tragedy taking place in that part of Africa this last weeks.

Just another day in Africa. So why get all worked up? Not like this didn't happen before or won't happen again.^ ... ^
this is what I am talking about.

Did ya expect anything else from them? And people wonder I do not like the UN when it comes to solving world crisis!the main problem with the UN is the "veto".

take away the veto.. and many good initiatives will no longer be blocked.

the main problem with the UN is the "veto".

take away the veto.. and many good initiatives will no longer be blocked.
True, but the problem is that any measure to take away the veto is itself sure to be vetoed. That's how an oligarchy works, complete self-insulation from any accountability whatsoever.:rolleyes: Seriously, remember the postscript to the movie Lord of War; the very military powers whose weapons are used in the wars, civil wars and genocides of the world are... the same Permanent Five and other regular Security Council members whose task it is to prevent those from happening.
And why, you may ask? Simple; though they talk the talk, few have ever really walked the decolonization walk. In other words, bug out without leaving the country any real infrastructure or skills and let the natives fail over and over whether the government doing the dying is socialist or capitalist or whatever, so that they keep coming back to the (supposedly) former colonial masters on their knees and begging for their lives. Ensures a more total and cheaper degree control than any amount of colonial policing ever would, and all too sickeningly effectively too...:headbang:

The UN makes me lol most mightily.

^ ... ^
this is what I am talking about.
What is exactly?

very True.

if we take all perspectives in consideration.. all the angles.

So far.. the UN has turned-a blind-eye to the great human tragedy taking place in that part of Africa this last weeks.

Last weeks hell. They've always ignored Africa.

the main problem with the UN is the "veto".

take away the veto.. and many good initiatives will no longer be blocked.

Doubtful.

the main problem with the UN is the "veto".

take away the veto.. and many good initiatives will no longer be blocked.
And who uses that option quit often?

And ther woud not hve been an invasion if not for the Islamic Court Union or whatever they call themselves.Maybe the Ethiopian Soldiers gang-raping the Somali Girl.. were blaming the victim too.
"we are raping you because either your father, you brother, or one of your future sons is going to be an insurgent.. ..preemptive punishing"

Maybe the Ethiopian Soldiers gang-raping the Somali Girl.. were blaming the victim too.

And what about the ICU doing the samething?

And what about the ICU doing the samething? The Somalian Insurgency has: Invaded Ethiopia.. Installed a puppet Gov.. Murdered or raped hundreds of Ethiopians.. forcing hundreds-of-thousands to flee? ???
Then turned around and blamed the Ethiopians for not supporting the "right" Gov??

When did that happen?

The Somalin Insurgency has: invaded Ethiopia.. installed a puppet Gov.. Murdered or raped hundred.. forcing hundreds-of-thousand to flee?

When did that happen?

Answer my question.

What about the atrocities committed by the ICU? WHere's your condemnation of that?

OH and what puppet government? Last time I checked, Ethiopia was backing the recognized government that both the US AND the UN support! And he is not a puppet. Get a life.

Answer my question. I just did.
What about the atrocities committed by the ICU?The ICU has banned broadcast WC and other "western" cultural imports. I did condemn it here.WHere's your condemnation of that?I just answered that.
OH and what puppet government?the Puppet Gov installed by Bush..that cannot survive without the murder-and-rape by a heavily armed Ethiopian Army.... that both the US AND the UN support!You also said that "The UN supports" the illegal Iraq war.. didn't you????? (your turn to answer Corny ;) )

For your information: the UN first initiative was to: ask all foreign forces to leave Somalia.. but the votes of all 5 veto-members could not be secured.. so another "compromise" was worked out.

the Puppet Gov installed by Bush..that cannot survive without the murder-and-rape by a heavily armed Ethiopian Army.

Now prove that President Bush installed him as a puppet. Go on. Prove it. Ya can't.

I answered you first series of questions.. your turn to answer mine.

No you didn't answer mine. You only partially answered it then you had something hanging out there that requires proof. Now prove your god damn assertion that Bush installed the leader of Somalia. I have time.

Now prove that ...I answered you first series of questions.. your turn to answer mine.

What? You expect the UN reporters to don Blue Helmets and stand on a Blue Line? The UN is in fact trying to help in Somalia, if you would bother to read into the conflict.

I wonder if the UN will do as well in Somalia as they did in Bosnia? How many UN safe areas were overran? I think it was six out of six if I recall. Oh and the UN did such a great job last time they were in Somalia too. UN=useless, which since it is in general anti-American and anti-capitalist is a good thing. Oh and while we are on the subject, please tell me when the UN plans to actually abide by its own charter.

Ahh, the UN. Is a nice idea, but sure 'tis no GDI, English.

I wonder if the UN will do as well in Somalia as they did in Bosnia? How many UN safe areas were overran? I think it was six out of six if I recall. Oh and the UN did such a great job last time they were in Somalia too. UN=useless, which since it is in general anti-American and anti-capitalist is a good thing. Oh and while we are on the subject, please tell me when the UN plans to actually abide by its own charter.

95% of the nations would be thrown out on its ear (Including the US) thus rendering it moot anyway.

Yes but then they decided to expand to places where they WEREN'T wanted.
Thats when they doomed themselves.

Places such as where? Ethiopia? Not likely given that country has little to no Muslim population to speak of. It was a tad premature to label them 'expansionist' or 'Taliban-like' when the had barely begun to assert control over Somalia-proper.

I don't know why anyone is shocked by the recent slide back into chaos and anarchy. People support one side; it grows strong enough to stabilise a region; neighbouring state not happy; invades and uses puppet government to rule; invading army leaves; puppet govt finds itself with no domestic support; chaos is back.

I don't know why anyone is shocked by the recent slide back into chaos and anarchy. People support one side; it grows strong enough to stabilise a region; neighbouring state not happy; invades and uses puppet government to rule; invading army leaves; puppet govt finds itself with no domestic support; chaos is back.

I think that's the lyrics to Africa's theme song.

It was a tad premature to label them 'expansionist' or 'Taliban-like' when the had barely begun to assert control over Somalia-proper.the Bushites had to label them something.. to justify the Ethiopian Invasion.

...the WMD excuse was not available..

the Bushites had to label them something.. to justify the Ethiopian Invasion.

...the WMD excuse was not available..

Oh brother. :rolleyes:

Whoopdedoo. The UN has published a report. Give them another five reports, and a good few months, and they may just do something.

Places such as where? Ethiopia? Not likely given that country has little to no Muslim population to speak of. It was a tad premature to label them 'expansionist' or 'Taliban-like' when the had barely begun to assert control over Somalia-proper.

Considering they controlled the majority of Somalia up to the outskirts of the only government held city, that they had expanded to the Ethiopian border, and the fact they were openly talking about a "Greater Somalia".

Besides it's quite obvious that the government held city didn't want them.

Considering they controlled the majority of Somalia up to the outskirts of the only government held city,

City, couple of houses and abandoned barns whatever.
that they had expanded to the Ethiopian border, and the fact they were openly talking about a "Greater Somalia".
Source? And definition of "Greater Somalia" too.

Besides it's quite obvious that the government held city didn't want them.
Yeah.... a group of ministers vs. the vast swathe of the country's population. But hey, what do the people know. They only wanted stability after 15 years of said government's great rule.

Besides it's quite obvious that the government held city didn't want them.so now the only excuse a Militaristic Gov needs to invade a weaker Country is: Find a city in the targeted Country -any city- were the Gov is "not wanted".

BTW there is probably thousand of Cities in my Country where "we do not want" Bush.. when is Canada invading to save US ??

Besides.. where is the proof that 51% of that city population "did not want them". Did you call in Gallup to poll that city??

City, couple of houses and abandoned barns whatever. That's nice, you've been there? Do you have images? No?


Source? And definition of "Greater Somalia" too. See one of my past threads.


Yeah.... a group of ministers vs. the vast swathe of the country's population. But hey, what do the people know. They only wanted stability after 15 years of said government's great rule.
Then why bother trying for that last little city? Hmmm? If you had every state in the US, What's the point of invading DC?

so now the only excuse a Militaristic Gov needs to invade a weaker Country is: Find a city in the targeted Country -any city- were the Gov is "not wanted". No, the threats of expanding INTO their borders however.


BTW there is probably thousand of Cities in my Country where "we do not want" Bush.. when is Canada invading to save US ?? Well if they were the Islamic courts they would!


Besides.. where is the proof that 51% of that city population "did not want them". Did you call in Gallup to poll that city?? Where is the proof that they did? Were you there? I would think not considering the city would have been more or less full of mainly the "government's" followers.

They should have left the "government" city alone until they basicly gave up.
After all if you have 90% of the country, why bother with a powerless 10%.

I'd also would like to add that you obiviously know little about Ethiopia because they DO have a minority Muslim population/

So the moral of the story is what? If the world was Islam then there were be no problems?

That's nice, you've been there? Do you have images? No?
I don't see what either you or I physically being in Baidoa has to do with anything.
Baidoa only has a population of about 10,000 people - so calling it a 'city' is a stretch.

The transitional government sat in an abandoned grain storehouse for it's governmental meetings, exercising it's rule over..... well, the 10,000 people in Baidoa really.

Images? Yeah, go to google image search and type "baidoa".

See one of my past threads.
Ah yes. The ones that neatly put aside the facts surrounding the make up of the courts and how they used to function.


Then why bother trying for that last little city? Hmmm? If you had every state in the US, What's the point of invading DC?
Legitimacy. Take out the rival government for power and their seat of power and you have an unfettered claim to legitimacy. Not that hard to understand to be honest.


So the moral of the story is what? If the world was Islam then there were be no problems?

Obviously.

It's quite simply the ICU's fault. They had some popular support in certain parts of Somalia but not all, otherwise they would have had an almost bloodless revolution. They consolidated their hold but then they got greedy. They decided to attack the capital of the recognised government, and there was very heavy fighting (heavy fighting, this usually means that the government must have some support if there is heavy resistance). Point is that the recognised government of Somalia, asked the sovereign nation of Ethiopia to help stabilize an insurgency of radical fundamentalists who among their better deeds condemned anyone drinking, gambling or even watching a movie to death.
Ethiopia being pragmatic, doesn't want a state run by religious fanatics right on a very large shared border. Couple this with the fact that Ethiopia itself is roughly 50/50 christian/muslim populated, having fanatic muslims on the border could spark up ethnic/religious tensions in their own country (you have a few whacked out fundamentalist cross the border kill a few christian Ethiopians in the name of Allah, some christians in Ethiopia retaliate against Ethiopian muslims by burning down a Mosque and the it hits shit creek).
This also coupled with the fact that some elements in the ICU quite openly called to incorporate parts of what is internationally Ethiopia (border fringes) because there are mostly ethnic muslim somalians living there (however it is part of Ethiopia and shouldn't be seperated just because it contains a somalian minority).


So in the end the ICU shot themselves in the foot. Internationally due to executing a few people for the atrocious crime of seeing a film in a movie theater they were viewed as backwards barbarians. They attacked the recognised government of Somalia sharpening the conflict. The ICU were the aggressors lets not forget that. They made the cardinal mistake of stepping on too many of Ethiopia's toes, diplomacy was not their strength (killing a christian Ethiopian farmer in a border raid into Ethiopian territory for being an infidel (he made the bad mistake of not being Muslim and was so unworthy of life). And here bad diplomacy comes into play again, instead of the judges of the ICU apologising to Ethiopia, something that could probably have glossed things over. They try to hardball it over and allow boasting of it, thinking "oh well shit happens." This didn't go down well with Ethiopia which already has concerns with it's Muslim/Christian divide, and this was open proof for them that a fundamentalist Muslim state on their border would be nothing but a permanent headache, as well as being an open insult (going into the territory of another nation, killing someone in a hatecrime and just leaving again).


Not saying Ethiopia is right. But in the end lots of crap happened on both sides. There is no right or innocent side, and in the end the ICU got screwed of it's chance of bringing peace to Somalia by bad diplomacy and greediness. Ethiopia reacted over harshly on what was clearly a judge not in full control of his militia and mixing itself in the affairs of another nation. I don't see much good coming for Ethiopia out of this in the future.


PS: The irony if foreign muslims go to Somalia on jihad against the Ethiopian troops,.... they should realise as Ethiopia is about 50/50 muslim/christian (I believe there are actually a few more muslims then christians in Ethiopia), they might end up killing more of their fellow muslims then infidels.

So the moral of the story is what? If the world was Islam then there were be no problems?

With Occeandrive the moral of the story is always "If there were no Jews there'd be no problems".

So the moral of the story is what?The moral of the story is rigth there.. in the Thread:

US (the taxpayers) need to pay our dear leader a suscription to "The Economist".. ASAP.

and we must make sure he fucking reads it.

The moral of the story is rigth there.. in the Thread:

US (the taxpayers) need to pay our dear leader a suscription to "The economist".. ASAP.

and we must make sure he fucking reads it.

Surely you mean The Ecommunist! Ho ho ho! Oh that Berlusconi...

No seriously, buy The Economist. Great news magazine.

No seriously, buy The Economist. Great news magazine.i am serious.

I am ready to buy it for the chimp..
he needs some common sense.. his pentagon "experts" are not providing it.

The moral of the story is rigth there.. in the Thread:

US (the taxpayers) need to pay our dear leader a suscription to "The Economist".. ASAP.

and we must make sure he fucking reads it.

LMAO!!!!

And this from a person people who cannot prove that the Recognized Somali government is indeed a puppet regime. I'm still waiting for proof of this OD. I told you I can wait long.

i am serious.

I am ready to buy it for the chimp..
he needs some common sense.. his pentagon "experts" are not providing it.

Then maybe you shoud cancel your subscription because you don't have any common sense either.

Then maybe you shoud cancel your subscription because you don't have any common sense either.I didnt need to read "The Economist".
I knew this was going to be a mess.. and the same for Iraq.

Today all are saying "The Iraq war was not a good idea"..
But what were they saying.. when the invasion was about to start?

I was against the Iraq war from before the invasion.. just read my post history.