NationStates Jolt Archive

Now here's something you don't see everyday. Former generals from the US military calling for a reduction on greenhouse gases. Their reasons? Strategic mostly. If environmental issues effect resources like water and other necessary items, war over them can and will occur. The timeline is a bit iffy, but at present course, will eventually occur.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6557803.stm

So, which has higher value to you? Economic hit now or your grandkids lives in a resource war later?

Now here's something you don't see everyday. Former generals from the US military calling for a reduction on greenhouse gases. Their reasons? Strategic mostly. If environmental issues effect resources like water and other necessary items, war over them can and will occur. The timeline is a bit iffy, but at present course, will eventually occur.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6557803.stm

So, which has higher value to you? Economic hit now or your grandkids lives in a resource war later?

In my crystal ball I see....Canada being invaded.

Hopefully the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry will be able to overcome the ignominy of their laughable name and resist.

I'm not sure we can't defray the economic hit through thoughtful planning and still have a happy world for our grandkids - oh wait...isn't 'thoughtful planning' a contradiction in terms for government?

Now here's something you don't see everyday. Former generals from the US military calling for a reduction on greenhouse gases. Their reasons? Strategic mostly. If environmental issues effect resources like water and other necessary items, war over them can and will occur. The timeline is a bit iffy, but at present course, will eventually occur.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6557803.stm

So, which has higher value to you? Economic hit now or your grandkids lives in a resource war later?

I think it's far too late to matter. Even if we cut back on greenhouse gases, it's most likely too late to change the climate back. There's evidence that a huge climate change/shift is going to happen no matter what, and really, it's to see in how long it does occur.

In my crystal ball I see....Canada being invaded.

Hopefully the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry will be able to overcome the ignominy of their laughable name and resist.


Maybe that's their strategy. By announcing over loudspeakers and radio the name of the infantry coming to fight them, US soldiers will be too curious and too amused to do any shooting.

And while their amused, secret Canadian shock Moose will sneak behind them and make off with all their toilet paper. :p

Maybe that's their strategy. By announcing over loudspeakers and radio the name of the infantry coming to fight them, US soldiers will be too curious and too amused to do any shooting.

And while their amused, secret Canadian shock Moose will sneak behind them and make off with all their toilet paper. :p

Great, now everyone knows their cunning plan, back to the drawing board boys.

Heck they'll end up fighting half the US that would begin fleeing there after the country starts going to hell.

Heck they'll end up fighting half the US that would begin fleeing there after the country starts going to hell.

Do we have any military-minded people? (he asks rhetorically)

Any strategy tips for Canada?

Personally I think piling the border with poutine so the US Army has to eat their way through it, consequently making them rather queasy and sluggish, would be a good start.

Perhaps there'll be a Battle of Marathon moment when the Canadian government send a runner to Montreal asking to "Release the Poutine" but the Montrealians will be observing 'Being annoying and French about it' Day and refuse.

The mind boggles with the possibilities...

So, which has higher value to you? Economic hit now or your grandkids lives in a resource war later?
Your awsome phear-mongering has moved me to action. I now feel compelled to go torch a ski lodge or spkie trees to kill loggers.

Nobody asked for an engineers take. Nobody ever asks the engineers what they think and want to do. You just wait till you needed something 5 minutes ago then tell us to do the impossible.

I'm not saying that a minor chane in climate couldn't have a small impact on the world but the apocolyptic scenarios that get the headlines are not likely.

I'm not saying that a minor chane in climate couldn't have a small impact on the world but the apocolyptic scenarios that get the headlines are not likely.

except that we are already facing a rather fucking apocalyptic scenario without the goddamn climate change. you may have heard about the ecological crisis already in progress...

Now here's something you don't see everyday. Former generals from the US military calling for a reduction on greenhouse gases. Their reasons? Strategic mostly. If environmental issues effect resources like water and other necessary items, war over them can and will occur. The timeline is a bit iffy, but at present course, will eventually occur.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6557803.stm

So, which has higher value to you? Economic hit now or your grandkids lives in a resource war later?

Well, whilst I disagree with their reasons (although I must admit it's a fantastic way of making people listen) on moral grounds, I'm glad that some more people have finally come around to their senses, especially when they're high-ranking Americans. That's certainly not something you see every day.

Your awsome phear-mongering has moved me to action. I now feel compelled to go torch a ski lodge or spkie trees to kill loggers.


Ha, ha. Very funny. Resources wars are a given with humanity. All this means is that we'll just have another resource to fight over.


Nobody asked for an engineers take. Nobody ever asks the engineers what they think and want to do. You just wait till you needed something 5 minutes ago then tell us to do the impossible.

I'm not saying that a minor chane in climate couldn't have a small impact on the world but the apocolyptic scenarios that get the headlines are not likely.

Minor changes are usually enough to get spectacular results. Like for example, if I were to remove 10 rivets from a 747. There's a couple thousand rivets on it, so 10 are just a teeny weeny bit of it. But wait till it's in flight...

Minor changes are usually enough to get spectacular results. Like for example, if I were to remove 10 rivets from a 747. There's a couple thousand rivets on it, so 10 are just a teeny weeny bit of it. But wait till it's in flight...

I'm not sure that's a correct reading of the analogy.

It's about compound effects, so, removing 1 rivet has no discernable effect, removing 10 may not either, but if you continue removing one by one, the 'straw that breaks the camel's back' as it were, is only 1 rivet of change.

Ha, ha. Very funny. Resources wars are a given with humanity. All this means is that we'll just have another resource to fight over.



Minor changes are usually enough to get spectacular results. Like for example, if I were to remove 10 rivets from a 747. There's a couple thousand rivets on it, so 10 are just a teeny weeny bit of it. But wait till it's in flight...

Or remove a single card from a house of cards several metres tall. Or add a single card, come to think of it.

...except that nature, like aeroplanes, does not rely on 1 card to sustain itself.

As has often been said, nature should survive (in one form or another), humans on the other hand...

Do we have any military-minded people? (he asks rhetorically)

Any strategy tips for Canada?

Personally I think piling the border with poutine so the US Army has to eat their way through it, consequently making them rather queasy and sluggish, would be a good start.

Perhaps there'll be a Battle of Marathon moment when the Canadian government send a runner to Montreal asking to "Release the Poutine" but the Montrealians will be observing 'Being annoying and French about it' Day and refuse.

The mind boggles with the possibilities...

Don't you see silly citizens of the America's? When the US and Canada are at war over Lake Louise, Quebec is otherwise "disengaged", and the new global climate hardens the ice sheet between Alaska and the Russian Far East, the resurgent Neo Soviet Empire will reclaim Russian America! There'll be Commie troops filtering into Anchorage from Okhotsk before you know it!

I'm not sure that's a correct reading of the analogy.

It's about compound effects, so, removing 1 rivet has no discernable effect, removing 10 may not either, but if you continue removing one by one, the 'straw that breaks the camel's back' as it were, is only 1 rivet of change.

Actually, it works. See, it's like this. A plane sitting on the tarmac can survive easily with a rivet or 10 removed as long as they didn't all come from one spot (like say, the engine linkage).

In this area, it would be a like an ecology held in stasis. You can remove objects, but nothing's running.

But all those rivets are there to ensure the plane works the way it's supposed to when running. So when the plane starts flying, the missing rivets don't hold down panels and other assorted bits that it's supposed to. Stress isn't evenly distributed.

Sure, it'd last for a flight, maybe even a couple of flights. But without that rivet or something to replace it, the stresses will just keep on piling on until you get a catastrophic accident which will turn your plane into a bunch of burning scrap metal.

It's the same for a running ecology. If take out bits and pieces of it, while it runs, stresses are added into the system as a whole. The more you take out, the greater the stress.

The difference however, is that nature adapts, growing new parts so to speak. The thing is, it doesn't grow a direct replacement, but rather, a tool that does the same job or similar enough. Sometimes it doesn't, and the plane has to morph into something else bit by bit to keep flying.

Whether humans will be part of that new something, nobody knows.

Actually, it works. See, it's like this. A plane sitting on the tarmac can survive easily with a rivet or 10 removed as long as they didn't all come from one spot (like say, the engine linkage).

In this area, it would be a like an ecology held in stasis. You can remove objects, but nothing's running.

But all those rivets are there to ensure the plane works the way it's supposed to when running. So when the plane starts flying, the missing rivets don't hold down panels and other assorted bits that it's supposed to. Stress isn't evenly distributed.

Sure, it'd last for a flight, maybe even a couple of flights. But without that rivet or something to replace it, the stresses will just keep on piling on until you get a catastrophic accident which will turn your plane into a bunch of burning scrap metal.

It's the same for a running ecology. If take out bits and pieces of it, while it runs, stresses are added into the system as a whole. The more you take out, the greater the stress.

The difference however, is that nature adapts, growing new parts so to speak. The thing is, it doesn't grow a direct replacement, but rather, a tool that does the same job or similar enough. Sometimes it doesn't, and the plane has to morph into something else bit by bit to keep flying.

Whether humans will be part of that new something, nobody knows.

Understood about non-replacement - yet I think you'd be surprised how little modern planes can fly on, safety standards are such that they're built to withstand losing quite a lot.

Nature's not that different.

I'm not debating the need to cut down pollution, of any sort to be honest, just the analogy :)

Understood about non-replacement - yet I think you'd be surprised how little modern planes can fly on, safety standards are such that they're built to withstand losing quite a lot.

Maybe, but you keep flying the same plane without maintaining it, or replacing lost parts, you're going to lose the plane in the end. Same with nature. Humanity is pretty much using nature pretty hard. Won't be able to go on forever without a little maintenance every now and then.

Yeah, and I know you were talking about the analogy.

spkie trees to kill loggers

yes, that is the point of tree spiking...