NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6556643.stm
German army in 'racist video' row

A video aired on German TV has shown an army recruit on firing practice being ordered to pretend he was in New York's Bronx facing hostile African Americans.

But make your own decision, the video is here: http://www.stern.de/politik/deutschland/:Bundeswehr-Feuern-Motherfucker/586855.html

Note that he uses the politically correct "African American" rather than some sort of less presentable n-word.

It's not funny cos it's a failure of a joke.

US civil rights leader, Al Sharpton, said it was outrageous to depict blacks as "target practice".
Isn't American racism good enough for him any more? No, now he's abandoning centuries of solid service on the part of domestic racism to go with shiny new German imports.
Mark my words, Congress will have to start bailing out the shock-jock industry if we don't put a stop to this sort of short-sighted globalization of outrage.

Not really funny, no...

All racism is funny. Specially racism on the interwebs.

But in all reality, who cares what he said? Al Sharkton doesn't count since he's the biggest racist of them all.

"You're in the Bronx, a black van pulls up in front of you and three African-Americans get out and start really insulting your mother... act!".


"Yo mama is so fat.. "

really.. the guy was either joking or corny as hell.

Didn't see a vid btw.

Didn't see a vid btw.
Scroll down a bit.

Or look here: http://www.myvideo.de/watch/969699

It could have been worst. He could have said:

"Pretend you're in WalMart, Japan, guarding a fresh load of Nintendo Wii's on the initial launch and a hundred thousand gamers just about to begin their stampede."

Very funny.

What was it about, anyway?

It's hardly a joke.
ou have to shoot those darkies before they shoot you.
*Stolen from News Flash*
*Slightly altered*
*Couldn't watch the video*

Meh.. pretty dopey and not too professional, but not a big thing. Looked like the instructor was just trying to ease the monotony of target practice.

In any case, different cultures have different views on race. It's no big thing to call someone "whitey" or "negro" in Mexico, for example. I'm not sure how it is in Germany, but Al Sharpton and his kind are probably more interested in making headlines than putting a comment like this one in proper perspective.

Scroll down a bit.

Or look here: http://www.myvideo.de/watch/969699


I don't speak German, so I can't even feel his speech. So sad. :(

I don't speak German, so I can't even feel his speech. So sad. :(

My German isn't perfect, but I'd say the translation you gave is accurate and captures the tone. There isn't much to it, as usual. :p

As for the first bit, I have no idea what "kapern" means, other than that it's obviously a verb pertaining to taking over an airplane, in context. The guy's telling the trainee to pretend he's guarding an airport, with terrorists trying to take over a plane. He shoots two bursts, and the guy says "good, the terrorists are dead. Now you're in the Bronx... etc." That's about it. "Before each burst (?), I want to hear a loud "motherfucker."

just a joke to relax the new guy, I'm sure I'd be pissing myself if I heard that from an instructor

motherfucker! :p

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6556643.stm


But make your own decision, the video is here: http://www.stern.de/politik/deutschland/:Bundeswehr-Feuern-Motherfucker/586855.html

Note that he uses the politically correct "African American" rather than some sort of less presentable n-word.

Of course it's not funny. The Germans should be using Jews as targets, shouldn't they? My point being that I'm sure the German army can find racist targets that the soldiers can identify with. Even Al Sharpton wouldn't mind them shooting imaginary Turks, right?

Unacceptable, especially in Germany. What the hell was he thinking?

/Did snicker a bit at the broken "motherfucker" shouting because it was so bizarre.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6556643.stm


But make your own decision, the video is here: http://www.stern.de/politik/deutschland/:Bundeswehr-Feuern-Motherfucker/586855.html

Note that he uses the politically correct "African American" rather than some sort of less presentable n-word.

1. Racism aint funny

2. On the bright side of this story, at least we know we have nothing to worry about if Germany ever tries to attack a country due to the crap training they receive

Unacceptable, especially in Germany. What the hell was he thinking?

that it was funny as indicated by the laughing?

that it was funny as indicated by the laughing?

I did not laugh, nor did their superiors from what I read in the articles.

I did not laugh, nor did their superiors from what I read in the articles.

if your going through one of the most tense moments of your life you will laugh at anything

if your going through one of the most tense moments of your life you will laugh at anything

And you will find out that it will excuse nothing.

And you will find out that it will excuse nothing.

and you will learn that because it was a funny joke to ease the situation had it not been filmed nothing would be done, because *gasp* its actually quite hard work being PC when nobody is really offended and its done in good humor :eek: :eek: :eek:

The problem isn't with the training, the problem is with the people who don't get the instructor taking the piss -_- That no racist terms were used and that he kinda had to mention someone aside (Some desensitisation is necessary if the soldier's supposed to do his job, which tends to involve killing people)... The sheer anal retentiveness of the 'Discussion' boggles the mind.

Would be nice if the... Nation... Could grow a fucking skin already.

One does have to wonder what the reaction would have been if he's have said "You're in the Bronx, a black van pulls up in front of you and three Jews get out and start really insulting your mother... act!". Would people be telling us to grow a thicker skin then?

One does have to wonder what the reaction would have been if he's have said "You're in the Bronx, a black van pulls up in front of you and three Jews get out and start really insulting your mother... act!". Would people be telling us to grow a thicker skin then?One does have to wonder what the reaction would be if he'd said "You're in Berlin, a black Mercedes pulls up in front of you and three managers get out and start telling you that you're fired... Act!" Would people be telling us to introduce sensitivity programs to the army?

You can play the game both ways, boi.

One does have to wonder what the reaction would be if he'd said "You're in Berlin, a black Mercedes pulls up in front of you and three managers get out and start telling you that you're fired... Act!" Would people be telling us to introduce sensitivity programs to the army?

You can play the game both ways, boi.
Last time I looked, managers weren't any kind of race. Feel free to prove me wrong. If you don't fancy that, you could actually not try and dodge the point of my last post. Would it be acceptable to do the same kind of joke with three Jews instead?

Last time I looked, managers weren't any kind of race. Feel free to prove me wrong. If you don't fancy that, you could actually not try and dodge the point of my last post. Would it be acceptable to do the same kind of joke with three Jews instead?Irrelevant. The point is that a specific social group is targeted. Unless, of course, that you're approving of randomly making fun off (Or 'Discriminating, as you'd presumably put it) all social groups not defined by their ethnicity - I.e. their income (Or the lack thereof), job, location, gender, sexual orientation...

But hey. Maybe I should add the word white before 'Manager' (Or, as you randomly switched from 'Ethnic Group' to 'Religion', catholic). Would it still be unacceptable? If yes, you need to grow a fucking skin and get out of your ivory tower. If no, you're a racist. Case closed.

It's a bloody joke. As such, everything is acceptable, or nothing is. And personally, I'm firmly on the 'Everything' side.

Irrelevant. The point is that a specific social group is targeted. Unless, of course, that you're approving of randomly making fun off (Or 'Discriminating, as you'd presumably put it) all social groups not defined by their ethnicity - I.e. their income (Or the lack thereof), job, location, gender, sexual orientation...

But hey. Maybe I should add the word white before 'Manager' (Or, as you randomly switched from 'Ethnic Group' to 'Religion', catholic). Would it still be unacceptable? If yes, you need to grow a fucking skin and get out of your ivory tower. If no, you're a racist. Case closed.

It's a bloody joke. As such, everything is acceptable, or nothing is. And personally, I'm firmly on the 'Everything' side.

It's highly relevant. It's a big difference between a manager and a race and in this case he didn't talk about a social group but a race. If he had said that two white persons would get out from that van it wouldn't have been funny since it's a bad joke but it wouldn't have been unacceptable since their white themselves and joke about their own etnicity.
Considering the rapidly growing neo-nazi movement in germany and the growing racism in the world this should be considered as highly serious, beeing a joke or not.

stupid funny rather than haha funny i reckon. i laughed at them. pretty retarded and unprofessional though.

Irrelevant. The point is that a specific social group is targeted. Unless, of course, that you're approving of randomly making fun off (Or 'Discriminating, as you'd presumably put it) all social groups not defined by their ethnicity - I.e. their income (Or the lack thereof), job, location, gender...
If course it's relevant. You can't be racist towards something that's not a race or a religion, and that's by definition. Social Group =/= race.

But hey. Maybe I should add the word white before 'Manager' (Or, as you randomly switched from 'Ethnic Group' to 'Religion', catholic). Would it still be unacceptable? If yes, you need to grow a fucking skin and get out of your ivory tower. If no, you're a racist. Case closed.
The Jews are an ethnicity, not just a religion, but that's beside the point.

As far as I am aware, the people involved in this video were all white, so saying white manager instead would be, although stupid, borderline acceptable. If whoever said this was black, or another group, it wouldn't be. Likewise, you wouldn't say the same about Catholics.

People can make a 'joke' about themselves and find it funny if they want, but not to others. Would they have shown this video to a platoon with black soldiers? Probably not.

It's a bloody joke. As such, everything is acceptable, or nothing is. And personally, I'm firmly on the 'Everything' side.
It's inappropriate coming from someone in the Army and involved with the state. There's a time and a place for everything, but that wasn't it.

In New York, Bronx Borough President Adolfo Carrion Jr. said whoever was responsible for the video should be disciplined.

"We need to put to rest the prejudices and the hate that is allowed ... to be perpetuated so easily and cheaply," said Carrion, who is of Puerto Rican descent.

"The German government obviously has work to do to correct something that is insidious ... Clearly these folks don't know anything about African Americans or the Bronx," he said.

Carrion, who just returned from a trip to Germany to promote Bronx tourism, said he would be willing to go back to talk to people in the German military about his borough.

"If we can get a delegation of German military officials to come or government officials, I will host them," he added. "I'll take them around the Bronx."

The Rev. Al Sharpton said he was outraged that Germans were "depicting blacks as target practice."

"I think this is an incredibly racist kind of insult to African-Americans and it speaks to the kind of institutional racism that people think we are hallucinating about," he said.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266114,00.html

"Ok, people of the Bronx -- imagine you're Jesse Owens, standing on the gold metal platform as Hitler and the rest of his cronies look away rather than acknowledge you beat them in the Olympics."

It's highly relevant. It's a big difference between a manager and a race and in this case he didn't talk about a social group but a race.So you're willing to discriminate based on profession, but not based on race. Alrighty. I mean, if it makes you feel better... "I'm not a racist! I never discriminate base don race! ONLY based on $Somethings_Else! But that's totally different, really!"

If he had said that two white persons would get out from that van it wouldn't have been funny since it's a bad joke but it wouldn't have been unacceptable since their white themselves and joke about their own etnicity.Why should they be limited to that?

If course it's relevant. You can't be racist towards something that's not a race or a religion, and that's by definition. Social Group =/= race.I refer to the above - you're apparently willing to accept discrimination (By your definition. To me, it's rather less) based on all sorts of criteria, except ethnicity.

That's a racist mindset. It's not targeting a race, but it uses similar reasoning.

And getting all worked up on the difference between 'Race' and 'Social Group not based on Race' does, quite frankly, suggest excessive stupidity, as you're completely ignoring the reason either is brought up - in both cases, the reasoning is irrational and the result insulting (Err, when one happens to be as sensitive as you are, anyway). Why are you implying that targeting the non-ethnic definition is ok, but the ethnic is not? Why should it be ok to 'Discriminate' (Your rather open minded definition thereof, not my own, rather more limited definition) against, lets say, garbage men, but not against Hispanics?

As far as I am aware, the people involved in this video were all white, so saying white manager instead would be, although stupid, borderline acceptable. If whoever said this was black, or another group, it wouldn't be. Likewise, you wouldn't say the same about Catholics.Ah, ok. See, now we're hitting ground.

Lets see. Me = White. Atheist. German.

My reaction to, lets say, a black protestant American making fun of/ discriminating against white atheist Germans? Anywhere between a shrug and hysterical laughing, depending largely on whether the humour in question coincides with my own sense of humour or not.

And I'm reasonably certain that people like me (Sort of. I admit that my tendency of finding something humorous in more or less everything is somewhat disconnected from the mainstream) are pretty abundant in every ethnic (Or whatever) group.

Now, you seem to work under the assumption that once someone who isn't a member of a given ethnic group has a laugh at its expense (Which, I might add, wasn't even the case here. It was a vaguely humorous scenario, a good dose of its humour coming from its absurdity and the implied pisstake on various Hollywood films), the entire group is insulted, demeaned, and five seconds from flipping out and killing everyone in the room.

Your assumption is incorrect. Welcome to reality.

People can make a 'joke' about themselves and find it funny if they want, but not to others.Oh, people can made a 'Joke' about everything, be it the victims of Marc Dutroux, 9/11, the holocaust, victims of WW2 carpetbombings, HIV victims in Africa, men, women, assorted ethnic groups, homosexuals, furry little creatures from Alpha Centauri and god knows what else (And, with the exception of the furry little creatures from Alpha Centauri, I've done all that).

You just would rather they (I) didn't. But to be honest, the people in question are unlikely to care much about your opinion. See - tightasses are boring, and it's kinda fun watching them explode from their internal pressure buildup.

It's inappropriate coming from someone in the Army and involved with the state. There's a time and a place for everything, but that wasn't it.*Collapses laughing* I'm not entirely certain what you expect the army to be like, but believe me - it's not a convent :P

Of course it's not funny. The Germans should be using Jews as targets, shouldn't they? My point being that I'm sure the German army can find racist targets that the soldiers can identify with. Even Al Sharpton wouldn't mind them shooting imaginary Turks, right?

How about "enemies" and not singling anyone out at all, hmmmm?

How about "enemies" and not singling anyone out at all, hmmmm?

That was all kind of tongue in cheek, but one would think that if the army were going to make racist remarks, it would use subjects that the recruits could identify with.

So you're willing to discriminate based on profession, but not based on race. Alrighty. I mean, if it makes you feel better... "I'm not a racist! I never discriminate base don race! ONLY based on $Somethings_Else! But that's totally different, really!"

Why should they be limited to that?

I refer to the above - you're apparently willing to accept discrimination (By your definition. To me, it's rather less) based on all sorts of criteria, except ethnicity.

It's not really discrimination if you're telling someone to shoot on their manager since it would be clea that it was meant as a joke, people wouldn't even care if he sad manager. But to tell someone to picture someone from a different race is clearly racist, even if it is a joke it doesn't excuse it.

To answer your other question. It's different to make fun of your selves and to make fun of others. If he had said germans instead of african americans no one would have cared.

Buh buh buh buh buh he said "african american" so he can't be racist.

It's not really discrimination if you're telling someone to shoot on their manager since it would be clea that it was meant as a joke, people wouldn't even care if he sad manager. But to tell someone to picture someone from a different race is clearly racist, even if it is a joke it doesn't excuse it.Why not? Why would it be clearer than it's here? What is the difference in principle? Other than being completely arbitrary in assigning values, that is. You see, either you have a reason to consider one of the two bad and the other not (Read: You have a reason why poking fun off an ethnic ethnic is worse than poking fun off an economic group - never mind that again, the former didn't even happen), or you're assigning values based entirely at random, which makes them worthless.

To answer your other question. It's different to make fun of your selves and to make fun of others. If he had said germans instead of african americans no one would have cared.But one paragraph ago you said that it is acceptable to make fun of others (Namely, employers). Mind quitting the flip-flopping?

Awesome. Third nation I'm posting with in this thread.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6556643.stm


But make your own decision, the video is here: http://www.stern.de/politik/deutschland/:Bundeswehr-Feuern-Motherfucker/586855.html

Note that he uses the politically correct "African American" rather than some sort of less presentable n-word.


I was wondering about that. Plus what a German would be doing on duty in New York with his rifle, as well as why a group of Afro-American gentlemen would choose a man thus armed to jump out of their van at and hurl "mom" related abuse.....

I was wondering about that. Plus what a German would be doing on duty in New York with his rifle, as well as why a group of Afro-American gentlemen would choose a man thus armed to jump out of their van at and hurl "mom" related abuse.....

And they say Americans are violent -- shooting people over 'yo mama'?

So you're willing to discriminate based on profession, but not based on race. Alrighty. I mean, if it makes you feel better... "I'm not a racist! I never discriminate base don race! ONLY based on $Somethings_Else! But that's totally different, really!"

Why should they be limited to that?

I refer to the above - you're apparently willing to accept discrimination (By your definition. To me, it's rather less) based on all sorts of criteria, except ethnicity.

That's a racist mindset. It's not targeting a race, but it uses similar reasoning.

And getting all worked up on the difference between 'Race' and 'Social Group not based on Race' does, quite frankly, suggest excessive stupidity, as you're completely ignoring the reason either is brought up - in both cases, the reasoning is irrational and the result insulting (Err, when one happens to be as sensitive as you are, anyway). Why are you implying that targeting the non-ethnic definition is ok, but the ethnic is not? Why should it be ok to 'Discriminate' (Your rather open minded definition thereof, not my own, rather more limited definition) against, lets say, garbage men, but not against Hispanics?

Ah, ok. See, now we're hitting ground.

Lets see. Me = White. Atheist. German.

My reaction to, lets say, a black protestant American making fun of/ discriminating against white atheist Germans? Anywhere between a shrug and hysterical laughing, depending largely on whether the humour in question coincides with my own sense of humour or not.

And I'm reasonably certain that people like me (Sort of. I admit that my tendency of finding something humorous in more or less everything is somewhat disconnected from the mainstream) are pretty abundant in every ethnic (Or whatever) group.

Now, you seem to work under the assumption that once someone who isn't a member of a given ethnic group has a laugh at its expense (Which, I might add, wasn't even the case here. It was a vaguely humorous scenario, a good dose of its humour coming from its absurdity and the implied pisstake on various Hollywood films), the entire group is insulted, demeaned, and five seconds from flipping out and killing everyone in the room.

Your assumption is incorrect. Welcome to reality.

Oh, people can made a 'Joke' about everything, be it the victims of Marc Dutroux, 9/11, the holocaust, victims of WW2 carpetbombings, HIV victims in Africa, men, women, assorted ethnic groups, homosexuals, furry little creatures from Alpha Centauri and god knows what else (And, with the exception of the furry little creatures from Alpha Centauri, I've done all that).

You just would rather they (I) didn't. But to be honest, the people in question are unlikely to care much about your opinion. See - tightasses are boring, and it's kinda fun watching them explode from their internal pressure buildup.
I think I get what you mean now. I still don't find it funny, but on reflection, It really isn't as noteworthy as it really seems. I'd say it's more stupid than racist.

*Collapses laughing* I'm not entirely certain what you expect the army to be like, but believe me - it's not a convent :P
What I expect it to be like and what I think it should be like are two different things, but that's life.

Why not? Why would it be clearer than it's here? What is the difference in principle? Other than being completely arbitrary in assigning values, that is. You see, either you have a reason to consider one of the two bad and the other not (Read: You have a reason why poking fun off an ethnic ethnic is worse than poking fun off an economic group - never mind that again, the former didn't even happen), or you're assigning values based entirely at random, which makes them worthless.

But one paragraph ago you said that it is acceptable to make fun of others (Namely, employers). Mind quitting the flip-flopping?

Awesome. Third nation I'm posting with in this thread.

I do think it's acceptable to to make fun of your boss in this situation and it would actually have been funny if he had said it. Even if it is discriminating against a "social group" it hasn't got a racist undertone and I don't think managers are actually beeing discriminated against in todays world. If you ask me you can joke about everything you want in private but when you tell a clearly racist joke as an officer in the military, you have to suffer the consequences.

EDIT: I haven't actually seen the film and this could very well be something that's been heavily exaggerated by the media(it probably is), but it's the principle of telling racist jokes I'm discussing.

Oh dear god. Germany's gonna invade us, aren't they?

At first I was like "WTF?!" but now I understand what's going on. Not being the right type of people, from the right place, (the US) and making a race joke = ok fun and games. I get it now. ;)


Meh.. pretty dopey and not too professional, but not a big thing. Looked like the instructor was just trying to ease the monotony of target practice.

In any case, different cultures have different views on race. It's no big thing to call someone "whitey" or "negro" in Mexico, for example. I'm not sure how it is in Germany, but Al Sharpton and his kind are probably more interested in making headlines than putting a comment like this one in proper perspective.
I do have to agree with that bit.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5319/847120229iz.jpg

maybe i'm wrong but...

I believe with the whole WW2 guilt issue there have been situations where german troops have not been at there optimum. The whole peacekeeping in lebanon and what happens if theres a situation where "we have to shoot a jew/isreal".
Maybe the training officer what trying to decensetise the soldiers to the whole race/ethnic issue?

just a thought.

Oh dear god. Germany's gonna invade us, aren't they?

Well, we already know how good the Germans are at handling terrorists at an airport...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_massacre

They'd probably do just as well trying to conquer the Bronx.. :p

Buh buh buh buh buh he said "african american" so he can't be racist.
That's what I thought.

Apart from "African Americans" not being a distinct race, but rather a specific social group or culture (he didn't say "black people" and he certainly didn't use the n-word) - I mean, he clearly wasn't saying anything malicious.

It was an un-PC joke, and I agree with Smoking Pits that it was probably a reference to Hollywood movies.

I suppose it's not easy to pick up if you don't speak German, but he really sounded quite sarcastic when he said it.

Well, we already know how good the Germans are at handling terrorists at an airport...
Actually, they learned from that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landshut_Hijacking