NationStates Jolt Archive

This came up in the Maryland gets it right thread. Much of the debate over whether the US should elect its presidents via direct election or via the electoral college seems to me to come down to whether citizens think of themselves as citizens of the nation or citizens of their individual states. So how do you identify? Are you primarily a US citizen, or a citizen of your state? And why?

Take the poll.

I"m a citizen of the United States of America!

I'm an American. I could care less about Ohio. Though I am glad that bastard Bob Taft is gone.

It would be nice to head more towards a true democracy and have the people choose their president instead of a few hundred people deciding the fate of 300 million. Or maybe I should say billions given the effect the U.S. has on the rest of the world.

This came up in the Maryland gets it right thread. Much of the debate over whether the US should elect its presidents via direct election or via the electoral college seems to me to come down to whether citizens think of themselves as citizens of the nation or citizens of their individual states. So how do you identify? Are you primarily a US citizen, or a citizen of your state? And why?

Take the poll.

I consider myself a US citizen first. I'm not sure why, maybe because I've lived in so many states that I never really... bonded with any of them. Though I love Michigan - lakes and forests and lighthouses...

I consider myself a US citizen first. I'm not sure why, maybe because I've lived in so many states that I never really... bonded with any of them. Though I love Michigan - lakes and forests and lighthouses...

I really don't think it's all that unusual. I feel the same way, even though I have the closest ties to Louisiana, since that's where I grew up. Currently I live in Florida and love it, but large scale, I'm still an American first.

Of course, I also consider myself a cosmopolitan, a citizen of the world.

I am a citizen of the United States of America. I am also a citizen of the sovereign state of Washington. I see no conflict, provided each is accorded it's proper respect.

I am a citizen of the United States of America. I am also a citizen of the sovereign state of Washington. I see no conflict, provided each is accorded it's proper respect.I wasn't suggesting there's a conflict. I'm wondering which way you primarily identify. Are you an American first or a Washingtonian first?

I wasn't suggesting there's a conflict. I'm wondering which way you primarily identify. Are you an American first or a Washingtonian first?

American first. There was a time when I would have said Washingtonian first, but having lived overseas, I've seen that the distinction is less than the similarity.

I want to vote in the poll. :(

I'm an American. I'm not Hawaiian. ;)

im an american.

i just live in new mexico.

I think of myself as a New Yorker, but I'm an American before all else.

I think of myself as a New Yorker, but I'm an American before all else.

Ditto.

American first and a distant second, Washingtonian.

Ditto.

Ditto the ditto.

Except maybe a Brooklynite instead of New Yorker.

Ditto the ditto.

Except maybe a Brooklynite instead of New Yorker.

Yo, I grew up in Bensonhurst. :D

I am a Pennsylvanian.

We still love you. :)

Whoops! Let's do the time warp again!

I"m a citizen of the United States of America!

Stop that! I just ate..

I am a Pennsylvanian.

American first, San Franciscan second.

California is such a large and diverse state (not to mention that the northern and southern halves have a long-standing rivalry) that it's more common for us to identify as being from a region (Angeleno, Inland Empire, Redwood Empire, Delta) than as being from the state itself.

But yeah, American is my first political identity.

Yo, I grew up in Bensonhurst. :D

Awesomes :)

We still love you. :)
Of course you do.. *scratches arm*
Whoops! Let's do the time warp again!

Abuse of power! Abuse of power! *reports*

American first, unquestionably.

I think I'm also influenced in this position by having grown up very close to the border between two (fairly culturally distinct) states. It's a bit hard to seriously assert your loyalty to one state when you cross the border into another several times per day.

Im A Carolinian And Proud Of Our Heritage! America Is A Great Land But Nc Comes First And Foremost!

I think there was a mapping project, redrawing the lines based off of what city people most associated with. Part of the project was also seeing how people identified (nationally, regionally, state, or local)

Personally, I am a New Englander first, then an American

I would consider myself a New Englander regardless of where I live in the world. American, kinda the same rule, but less so.

I voted Other (Please Explain)

First I consider myself a citizen of Earth
Then American
then Floridan ( and it is pronounced Flor-i-dan I am not from floridia)

And I belive that I should vote for president direct, not have someone else vote in my place. ( in Florida all votes go to the winner in the state and I don't like that)

This came up in the Maryland gets it right thread. Much of the debate over whether the US should elect its presidents via direct election or via the electoral college seems to me to come down to whether citizens think of themselves as citizens of the nation or citizens of their individual states. So how do you identify? Are you primarily a US citizen, or a citizen of your state? And why?

Take the poll.

I'm definitely a Jerseyan before I'm a USian.

All you other Jerseys just be imitatin'.

I'm a subject of the British Crown, George Washington be damned.
:p

American first, San Franciscan second.

California is such a large and diverse state (not to mention that the northern and southern halves have a long-standing rivalry) that it's more common for us to identify as being from a region (Angeleno, Inland Empire, Redwood Empire, Delta) than as being from the state itself.

But yeah, American is my first political identity.
I'm a Northern Californian, first and foremost. I'm a Californian on the whole, even though I have the above mentioned rivalry with the shallow end of the state (SoCal) it's still part of the state. Like your little brother, it's okay if you make fun of them but not someone else.

I have two California flags on my walls even (one doesn't have the star and replaces "California Republic" with "NOR*CAL").

I don't care much what larger body we are attached to. Canada? Fine. Mexico, I'll deal. By ourselves, fantastic. We're saddled right now with America and that's what I deal with because that's the way it stands.

But my identity as a citizen is tied to Northern California, that's the land I care about, those are the people I am with. I've only ever lived in its center (Sacramento (ugh), East Bay, Santa Cruz, and now San Francisco), so that probably has a lot to do with that. But there it is.

I'm both an American Citizen and a Citizen of Virginia. I consider both the same and both equally important.

We're celebrating our 400th birthday, making Virginia's General Assembly the oldest governing body in America ... sup.

I'm both an American Citizen and a Citizen of Virginia. I consider both the same and both equally important.

We're celebrating our 400th birthday, making Virginia's General Assembly the oldest governing body in America ... sup.

Nifty. I recommend a trip to Jamestown and the consumption of vast quantities of alcohol.

Sadly I was born in America so it makes me American. Sadly, I live in North Carolina, so it makes me North Carolinian.

I wish it t'was not so.

First I consider myself a citizen of Earth
Then American
then Floridan ( and it is pronounced Flor-i-dan I am not from floridia)

http://www.sptimes.com/Floridian.shtml
http://www.myflorida.com/taxonomy/floridian/
http://www.sommersports.com/events/greatfloridian/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floridian

It would seem that people who should know in the great state of Florida would agree that Floridian is also a proper appellation for people from Florida.

Sadly I was born in America so it makes me American. Sadly, I live in North Carolina, so it makes me North Carolinian.

I wish it t'was not so.

There is always emigration.

There is always emigration.

Not quite as simple as asking, "Hey, can I crash here?"

I'm an American first, a Massachusetts(-ian?) second.

Not quite as simple as asking, "Hey, can I crash here?"

especially if you're a pilot! :p

There is always emigration.

Thats what illegals think. Cept they are illegal. Im considering UK, or Canada. ;)

There is always emigration.

Easy for a New Yorker to say. People generally emigrate to you.

Including my people. Jerseyans. Not Indians. Indians usually come here, become Jerseyans, then move to New York.

We're like the waystation on the long road to Hell. :D

American, then Pennsylvanian

Easy for a New Yorker to say. People generally emigrate to you.

Including my people. Jerseyans. Not Indians. Indians usually come here, become Jerseyans, then move to New York.

We're like the waystation on the long road to Hell. :D

LMFAO


XD

I'm an American before I'm a Californian.

Nifty. I recommend a trip to Jamestown and the consumption of vast quantities of alcohol.

Indeed I shall. We are currently almost done renovating our Capitol building which Thomas Jefferson built when he was Governor of Virginia. Once that is done, it's my understanding that here in Richmond there will be festivities, in which my ultimate goal is to get plastered beyond belief and fall into the James River as to get my name on the news :p

Plus I'm taking a trip to Monticello and Mt. Vernon. Hell Monticello isn't to far away. I live close to Charlottesville. About an equal drive for me to there or Richmond.

I am a Brooklynite, i.e. a citizen of the world.



Yo, I grew up in Bensonhurst.
Except maybe a Brooklynite instead of New Yorker.

BROOOOOOKKKLLLLYYYYNNN:D

It depends. In the Army I was mostly a citizen of my state. Now I'm a citizen of my city. Once the yuppie idiots ruin my city, I'll probably be back to identifying by my state.

I never really thought of it.

Indeed I shall. We are currently almost done renovating our Capitol building which Thomas Jefferson built when he was Governor of Virginia. Once that is done, it's my understanding that here in Richmond there will be festivities, in which my ultimate goal is to get plastered beyond belief and fall into the James River as to get my name on the news :p

Plus I'm taking a trip to Monticello and Mt. Vernon. Hell Monticello isn't to far away. I live close to Charlottesville. About an equal drive for me to there or Richmond.

Awesome! Damn this reminds me I need to do another sight-seeing driveabout of the Eastern Seaboard one of these days.

American, then Pennsylvanian

AHH!! Your from Philly? That's about an hour and 45 minutes from where I"m at currently. LOL

It depends on the issue. If it's sanitary services, then I'm a resident of my local government -- county in my case, city in others. It just goes up the ladder from there. I vote for President based on how little harm the candidate will do to the country, not to the state. That's what Senators and Governors are for. That's why we have all those pesky elections.

So what's the problem?

AHH!! Your from Philly? That's about an hour and 45 minutes from where I"m at currently. LOL

cool its like you're right across the street :p

American by Birth, Southern by the Grace of God.

Would never consider AZ or any other state to be even roughly analagous to the US.

States are in reality more 'administrative districts' than anything else - the civil war settled the question once and for all as to where loyalty is due.

I am loyal to my local community first and formost. That means I am loyal to my state before my country.

I'm a proud Jersian. Fuck the rest of the U.S., bunch of card carrying commies.

I'm a proud Jersian. Fuck the rest of the U.S., bunch of card carrying commies.

Yeah, you have fun with your lovely city of Camden. :p

United States Citizen.

I am a Brooklynite, i.e. a citizen of the world.

BROOOOOOKKKLLLLYYYYNNN:D

We are awesomer than other peoples, obviously.

I consider myself the following, in order:

Man of God
Citizen of the United States of America
Voting Resident of the State of Florida

(Note, my currnet state residency is temporary, and I will probably relocate to Alaska/Colorado in a few years to improve my ski-abilities on big mountain terrain.)

This came up in the Maryland gets it right thread. Much of the debate over whether the US should elect its presidents via direct election or via the electoral college seems to me to come down to whether citizens think of themselves as citizens of the nation or citizens of their individual states. So how do you identify? Are you primarily a US citizen, or a citizen of your state? And why?

Take the poll.

I see myself as an American far ahead of a Pennsylvanian. My state isn't exactly what you would call near and dear to my heart.

Come to think of it though, we would probably be better off with the senate having term limits and letting them elect the president. A lot of the problems we have with national politics stem from the fact that presidential elections are nothing more then a popularity fueled race to amass the most money in the hope of buying a position of power.

Yeah, you have fun with your lovely city of Camden. :p

good times in wonderful East Philly :rolleyes:

good times in wonderful East Philly :rolleyes:

In the ghetto..

*whistles*

I actually identify with my local community far more than anything else.

I guess in the grand scheme of things, (were I asked, which I was) I am an Oklahoman, then a US Citizen.

*hides*

Hey, I hear you've had some bad weather today?

Still alive I see.

I actually identify with my local community far more than anything else.

I guess in the grand scheme of things, (were I asked, which I was) I am an Oklahoman, then a US Citizen.

*hides*

Hey, I hear you've had some bad weather today?

Still alive I see.

Spring = bad weather around here. I survive just about anything. ;)

In the ghetto..

*whistles*

hellz yea

Spring = bad weather around here. I survive just about anything. ;)

That's very good. Keeps insurence rates down. :)

If I'm talking to another American, I consider myself a Bostonian or a New Englander first. I would probably say that I was a New Englander sooner than saying that I was American, especially since saying that I am a New Englander implies that I'm an American as well. It's more specific I guess.

American.

I don't feel attached to a state as my family moved around.....

http://www.sptimes.com/Floridian.shtml
http://www.myflorida.com/taxonomy/floridian/
http://www.sommersports.com/events/greatfloridian/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floridian

It would seem that people who should know in the great state of Florida would agree that Floridian is also a proper appellation for people from Florida.


The term Floridian was created by the retirees from New York and Ohio. when a large percentage of your population (voters/taxpayers you know) wants to call you something your Goverment/newspaper will usualy accept it :D

as a follow up to my previous comment, I also don't think that I would identify as a Massachusettsian or a Masshole... Just a Bostonian or a New Englander.

as a follow up to my previous comment, I also don't think that I would identify as a Massachusettsian or a Masshole... Just a Bostonian or a New Englander.

so no middle ground with you huh?

so no middle ground with you huh?

hehe, I guess not. Either that or Massachusettsian is just too many syllables for me to trip over

It depends on the issue. If it's sanitary services, then I'm a resident of my local government -- county in my case, city in others. It just goes up the ladder from there. I vote for President based on how little harm the candidate will do to the country, not to the state. That's what Senators and Governors are for. That's why we have all those pesky elections.

So what's the problem?

No problem. The question came up in the thread about Maryland's legislation to pledge their electoral votes to the popular vote winner once enough states joined in a compact to swing the election, i.e. once states totaling 270 electoral votes had signed on. One of the anti- arguments was that it denuded states of their electoral powers. So I wondered how people thought of themselves--as citizens of a state or of the nation.

Between the state and the country, I think of myself as more of an American.

Phenotype.

Most of the laws in my state( and in all the states) are mandated by the federal government so its kind of pointless to be proud of my state because its not really unique. If my state did flex its muscles a little and actually use the 10th amendment for what it was intended to be used for, the federal government would cut funding to all of georgia's programs and no politician that we have elected has the balls to lose that much money. My dream is to see the states stop sucking the federal government's cash dick and start making their own laws. The states are suppose to all be laboratories of democracy, but if you actually study state governments, its like studying the designs of wallpaper.
...Boring, stale, monotonous, could be more interesting.

I'd like nothing more than to see Minnesota secede.

I am a Christian above all. After that, I am a Southern Illinoisan, then an American.

Country then state, until I have to do otherwise.

I'm a not a Californian, but an American. :)

No problem. The question came up in the thread about Maryland's legislation to pledge their electoral votes to the popular vote winner once enough states joined in a compact to swing the election, i.e. once states totaling 270 electoral votes had signed on. One of the anti- arguments was that it denuded states of their electoral powers. So I wondered how people thought of themselves--as citizens of a state or of the nation.
I stayed away from that thread because I figured it was the same old stuff. I read about the MD thing and I've got to say I'm disappointed that a state would surrender any power, but politicians aren't in the business of governing anymore, are they? From the day they win their first election, their main job is winning the next one, whatever they might do for their constituents is just a another vote bought and paid for.

I would personally think that this issue was settled with the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution (ratified July 9, 1868). It's first section goes as follows: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
In addition to other sections of the amendment, this is very important. Any good student of constitutional law will tell you that this sets citizenship of America (of the Country) over citizenship of a State. A State cannot abridge any rights granted by the Country to its citizens, while the Country can decide what rights its citizens should have.



But I understand why people think this way. Personally, I view myself as a citizen of New York City over that of New York State and at times over the United States as well. In New York State, there's the City, everything Upstate, and Long Island.

I'd like nothing more than to see Minnesota secede.

And i'd like nothing more then to enlist in the army that would roll into St Paul and take the state back.

First, I am a North Carolinian.

Then American.

Then a former Virginian, DCer, and Brit.

And then a native Ohioan. Ohian? Bah, Buckeye then. Native Buckeye. :)

I love New Jersey, but I support the country more.

Easy for a New Yorker to say. People generally emigrate to you.

Including my people. Jerseyans. Not Indians. Indians usually come here, become Jerseyans, then move to New York.

We're like the waystation on the long road to Hell. :D

Actually it is easy for a NYer to say, because our international airport (JFK) sees both plenty of people leaving and plenty of people arriving.

I wasn't trying to be snarky: if you hate where you live, find someplace you like better. My family came from Italy to be here; I know of people who moved to France, to Australia, to Costa Rica.

Better to do something about it that just say "man, this stinks."

I'm a proud Jersian. Fuck the rest of the U.S., bunch of card carrying commies.
Yeah, you have fun with your lovely city of Camden. :p

And Newark. And Irvington....

And i'd like nothing more then to enlist in the army that would roll into St Paul and take the state back.

Beware a rifle behind every blade of grass.

I am an American first. Then a Chicagoan. I dont really think much about the rest of the state. This is helped even more by the fact that the state goverment focuses Chicago before anywhere else (since we have about half the states population.)

And Newark. And Irvington....

Oh yes! They're great also.

New Yorker. Period.

This came up in the Maryland gets it right thread. Much of the debate over whether the US should elect its presidents via direct election or via the electoral college seems to me to come down to whether citizens think of themselves as citizens of the nation or citizens of their individual states. So how do you identify? Are you primarily a US citizen, or a citizen of your state? And why?

Take the poll.

I'm a citizen of both. I can't say I feel the same attachment to my state (VA) as to my country as a whole...but that is a difficult measure, as it is entirely dependent on the context. In a foreign country, I am an American first, and a Virginian not at all (by this I mean, it does not matter that I am from a particular state as the face to the world is that of an American) and at home I am a Virginian, which is my face to my fellow Americans. I feel a stronger affinity for the nation as a whole, but I support the Electoral College. I hope this doesn't mess your generalization up too much...;)

I am an American first. Then a Chicagoan. I dont really think much about the rest of the state. This is helped even more by the fact that the state goverment focuses Chicago before anywhere else (since we have about half the states population.)

oh how I wish I could beat some sense into you! This is why Chicago needs to be sunk into lake michigan!

This is an interesting question, and one I've put a great deal of thought into.

I personally identify first and foremost as a Michigander, as my location probably tells you. I wasn't always like this, in fact I was at one point an obsessively patriotic American. An acolyte in the Church of Lincoln, if you will. However, after I joined the Army and went overseas I began to look at my identification with a somewhat different eye. I began to feel that the trappings of American patriotism were artificial, hollow, fabricated.

Also, a huge part of American patriotism involves excessive fellating of the military. As a soldier I found this rather disturbing as I know that soldiers should never be accorded a social status higher than that of the average citizen. Such treatment goes against the stated principles of the United States.

So instead I looked to the principles of the United States for a justification for patriotism. As a child I was taught that America was the city on the hill, a shining beacon of democracy unparalleled in all the world. Of course, having traveled overseas I know that this isn't true. There are many countries in the world with equal or better civil rights protections.

So why should I feel loyal to the United States? I don't understand why I should feel a stronger kinship with Hawaiians or Californians thousands of miles away than with the Canadians who live less than a hundred miles away.

As for my loyalty to Michigan, it's home. I feel a sense of a shared lot in life with other Michiganders far more than I do with other Americans, especially during this time of economic troubles in Michigan. Also, there are enough cultural and linguistic eccentricities in Michigan for me to feel somewhat out of place in other American states. I feel more at ease in France than I did in Colorado. This is probably because France is different enough for me to feel properly foreign while Colorado is similar enough that the differences are grating and annoying.

Pff. People make too big a deal of this. There's no good reason to write multiple paragraphs, yanno? See, there's these things call 'subsets'. I'm American, I'm a Michigander, all Michiganders are Americans, not all Americans are Michiganders...It's that whole 'if P then Q' thing.

This is an interesting question, and one I've put a great deal of thought into.
*snip*
differences are grating and annoying.

See? This is what I'm talking about.

This came up in the Maryland gets it right thread. Much of the debate over whether the US should elect its presidents via direct election or via the electoral college seems to me to come down to whether citizens think of themselves as citizens of the nation or citizens of their individual states. So how do you identify? Are you primarily a US citizen, or a citizen of your state? And why?

Take the poll.

I'm an American first.

Second, I'm a resident of the United Kingdom.

Citizen of Earth.

Citizen of Earth.

Crazy Martian immigrants...*shakes head*

There's no good reason to write multiple paragraphs, yanno?

Sure there is. I have two hours between my French grammar and English-French translation courses, and it's not worth it to take the bus home between them.

Sure there is. I have two hours between my French grammar and English-French translation courses, and it's not worth it to take the bus home between them.

Okay, well, sure, I suppose if you have nothing better to do.

Country then state, until I have to do otherwise.

Well put.

This came up in the Maryland gets it right thread. Much of the debate over whether the US should elect its presidents via direct election or via the electoral college seems to me to come down to whether citizens think of themselves as citizens of the nation or citizens of their individual states. So how do you identify? Are you primarily a US citizen, or a citizen of your state? And why?

Take the poll.
Given how often I move, I don't really identify as a citizen of any particular state.

Given how often I move, I don't really identify as a citizen of any particular state.

you could just get a big map of the US, throw a dart, and say okay im from ......

I'd say I identify as a US American first, but as a Nebraskan a close second. Further I don't have a problem wih how the electoral college works now, at least how it works here all you states with winner takes all set ups need to get a clue.

This came up in the Maryland gets it right thread. Much of the debate over whether the US should elect its presidents via direct election or via the electoral college seems to me to come down to whether citizens think of themselves as citizens of the nation or citizens of their individual states. So how do you identify? Are you primarily a US citizen, or a citizen of your state? And why?

Take the poll.

I identify as a Bay Stater, because according to the government, we're not "real" Americans, but communist liberal wankers.

you could just get a big map of the US, throw a dart, and say okay im from ......

*thud* the black line that separates Hawaii from the rest of the USA.... waitaminute... :p

American, then Northern Californian. Southern California is too strange for me to want to be associated with them.;)