NationStates Jolt Archive

A lot of people criticise emos. Deride them even. I would like to know why. What is so bad about emo kids? Why are they such objects of scorn?

A lot of people criticise emos. Deride them even. I would like to know why. What is so bad about emo kids? Why are they such objects of scorn?
Yeah, why hate on the Emo?


I wish my lawn was Emo...

then it would cut itself...

For me, personally, it's the juvenile behavior by people who think they're not being juvenile. It's the overly taking themselves seriously "woe is me the world is a terrible place" attitude by someone who has never actually LIVED in the world.

It's juvenile

A lot of people criticise emos. Deride them even. I would like to know why. What is so bad about emo kids? Why are they such objects of scorn?

Because stereotyping is easier than acknowledging that everybody is different, even those who look the same.

Probably for no better reason than that they're easy targets. They make a great out-group.

Cheers,

~R~

They whine too much it seems, waaaay too much; more than is healthy for even me.

For me, personally, it's the juvenile behavior by people who think they're not being juvenile. It's the overly taking themselves seriously "woe is me the world is a terrible place" attitude by someone who has never actually LIVED in the world.

It's juvenile

But how do you know what they are going through? I know that a lot of people have taken on what they perceive as being emo, which is the clothes and the fake attitude, but I mean, people seem to deride any outward displays of emotion, anyone who is depressed for what they perceive as no reason, as being emo. They trash people who feel out-of-place in the world as being emo. I don't think it's really tolerant or understanding.

I've always wondered if it didn't have something to do with deeply buried homophobia, since you always see Emo connected to accusations of homosexuality.

That or it's fear of having little emotional control.

Probably for no better reason than that they're easy targets. They make a great out-group.

Cheers,

~R~

Well that is the perception I get.

For me, personally, it's the juvenile behavior by people who think they're not being juvenile. It's the overly taking themselves seriously "woe is me the world is a terrible place" attitude by someone who has never actually LIVED in the world.

It's juvenile


Bwahahahahah but, but they're teenagers! They are supposed to be full of angst and act juvinlie.

Basicly emo kids are teenagers acting like teenagers, I agree with the OP, whats the big deal?

I've always wondered if it didn't have something to do with deeply buried homophobia, since you always see Emo connected to accusations of homosexuality.

That or it's fear of having little emotional control.

I am intrigued by the idea of a connection with latent homophobia. Especially since emo boys are prone to wearing girls skinny leg jeans (at least in Australia), and are straight.

I have long suspected the second reason you give as part of the reason.

'To be emo', as in 'he is being so emo', has become a new insult of choice in North America. I personally find it stupid and associate it with an emotional shallowness and a refusal to attempt to understand what others are going through. Only after a reasonable attempt could I consider it justified to dismiss their problems as inconsequential - and that goes for each individual 'emo' person.

Personally, I make a distinction between the style (the hair, choice of dress, etc) and the mental state (depression, generally accompanied with dissatisfaction with life and - more often than not - a willingness to experiment sexually).

I find the style personally attractive (although I'm not extremely discriminating) - and as for the mental state, I only dismiss the problems of said 'emo' kids if their biggest problem is 'Daddy won't let me have a 64" TV in my bedroom'. If they have a legitimate complaint, I like to help them work through it.

(Another note about emo style: I know plenty of people who dress in the emo style, although they choose to be non-monochromatic. This is even hotter.)

'To be emo', as in 'he is being so emo', has become a new insult of choice in North America. I personally find it stupid and associate it with an emotional shallowness and a refusal to attempt to understand what others are going through. Only after a reasonable attempt could I consider it justified to dismiss their problems as inconsequential - and that goes for each individual 'emo' person.

Personally, I make a distinction between the style (the hair, choice of dress, etc) and the mental state (depression, generally accompanied with dissatisfaction with life and - more often than not - a willingness to experiment sexually).

I find the style personally attractive (although I'm not extremely discriminating) - and as for the mental state, I only dismiss the problems of said 'emo' kids if their biggest problem is 'Daddy won't let me have a 64" TV in my bedroom'. If they have a legitimate complaint, I like to help them work through it.

(Another note about emo style: I know plenty of people who dress in the emo style, although they choose to be non-monochromatic. This is even hotter.)

What do you consider a legitimate complaint?

I find parts of the style very attractive, however, I couldn't date an emo guy. I like masculine men.

Bwahahahahah but, but they're teenagers! They are supposed to be full of angst and act juvinlie.

Basicly emo kids are teenagers acting like teenagers, I agree with the OP, whats the big deal?

And that makes it okay? When you're 5, is crying because you dont get your way okay, just because that's what kids do? No, it's not okay. If you cry because you don't get your way, you get punished. That's what's supposed to happen.

You do things you shouldn't do, you get punished/encouraged not to do that anymore.

You can't punish teenagers for being angst filled idiots. But you sure as hell can mock them and encourage them not to be.

In order for someone to grow up, they need to be taught that what they're doing is childish and stupid. Letting teenagers be "emo" idiots is not exactly helping them grow up.

Probably the fact I look so damn good being emo.:D

What do you consider a legitimate complaint?

'My mother beats me.'
'My father sexually abuses me and I don't know how to get help.'
'My best friend committed suicide six months ago and I'm still not over it.'

Traumatic things, especially when multiple things are present.

And that makes it okay? When you're 5, is crying because you dont get your way okay, just because that's what kids do? No, it's not okay. If you cry because you don't get your way, you get punished. That's what's supposed to happen.

You do things you shouldn't do, you get punished/encouraged not to do that anymore.

You can't punish teenagers for being angst filled idiots. But you sure as hell can mock them and encourage them not to be.

In order for someone to grow up, they need to be taught that what they're doing is childish and stupid. Letting teenagers be "emo" idiots is not exactly helping them grow up.

There's a difference between 'angst' and being legitimately depressed. I will give you that a large number of emo kids are emo simply because it's 'trendy' (see my comment about 'Daddy won't let me have a 64" TV in my bedroom'), but some emo kids are actually social outcasts with real problems.

What you've gone and done is stated something as stupid as 'all white people don't have problems because they're white, so they should just get over it' - but Heaven forbid that a white person lives in the same slums and has the same negative experiences as a black person, because, you know, the same experience is obviously worse for the black person. Some people actually have issues, and some 'emo kids' are actively seeking help.

They are just bloody stupid:
Who the hell sits in queen street mall outside hungry jacks 7 days a week. They wear black, incredibly hot (not sexy, temperature hot) clothes in 35 degree heat. They then wear black makeup and are just... depressing to be around... Seriously, you gotta look at life with some form of optimism, or at the very least be smart about being miserable. Wear black shorts, black pluggers, and a black singlet!

Also, I think the culture of emos is not good for younger people (ie, 13-15 yo). For examples, a significant number of the emos at QSM (queen street mall) are smoking. There are these 14 year old chicks come and join the group. what is going to happen: I would bet that they are going to take up smoking, something that will probably affect them for a large part of their lives.

Thus, significantly proven, being an emo is detrimental to your health.

They are just bloody stupid:
Who the hell sits in queen street mall outside hungry jacks 7 days a week. They wear black, incredibly hot (not sexy, temperature hot) clothes in 35 degree heat. They then wear black makeup and are just... depressing to be around... Seriously, you gotta look at life with some form of optimism, or at the very least be smart about being miserable. Wear black shorts, black pluggers, and a black singlet!

Also, I think the culture of emos is not good for younger people (ie, 13-15 yo). For examples, a significant number of the emos at QSM (queen street mall) are smoking. There are these 14 year old chicks come and join the group. what is going to happen: I would bet that they are going to take up smoking, something that will probably affect them for a large part of their lives.

Thus, significantly proven, being an emo is detrimental to your health.

Anyone else love how irrelevant anecdotal evidence is?

Pretty much the juvenile, self-centered, pretentious idiocy. Wearing blank glasses, for example, pisses me off. I'm sorry folks, but as a wearer of actual glasses, it's not stylish, it's not fun, it's just a nuisance, and I'm getting Lasik as soon as my eyes have finished becoming fully formed.

I was in high school when emo started becoming popular in my area, and all of them were privileged, well off spoiled rich kids. Who thought that punk rock was too mean and dirty. Life sucks get over it.

A lot of people criticise emos. Deride them even. I would like to know why. What is so bad about emo kids? Why are they such objects of scorn?

Well being a demon you might not understand. But people don't like most other people that aren't like them.

Also green > blue > red.

Once again, I find myself on the losing side of 'popular opinion'. Interesting that I support people who cut for self-gratification because of emotional issues as well as people who potentially are mentally unstable.

'My mother beats me.'
'My father sexually abuses me and I don't know how to get help.'
'My best friend committed suicide six months ago and I'm still not over it.'

Traumatic things, especially when multiple things are present.

But kids who have nothing traumatic in their past are not legitimate in their problems? I think any kid who is cutting themselves is legitimate in what they are feeling. The ones who don't have a "reason" are often the ones most in need of help.

A lot of people criticise emos. Deride them even. I would like to know why. What is so bad about emo kids? Why are they such objects of scorn?

Emo kids cause global warming. They are the Anti-pirates. *nod*

Emo kids cause global warming. They are the Anti-pirates. *nod*

You lie! I have seen, with my OWN EYES, an emo-pirate!

*watches Goofballs' head explode*

They're whiners. I don't like whiners. Ought give the little snots something to cry about.

God, they flock in like flies to the carcass of a dead horse, and I can't swat them away fast enough. A large majority of emo kids are self-indulgent little brats, sure, but dismissing them all is arrogant.

EDIT: LETS DO THE TIME WARP AGAAAAAAAIN

There's a difference between 'angst' and being legitimately depressed. I will give you that a large number of emo kids are emo simply because it's 'trendy' (see my comment about 'Daddy won't let me have a 64" TV in my bedroom'), but some emo kids are actually social outcasts with real problems.

What you've gone and done is stated something as stupid as 'all white people don't have problems because they're white, so they should just get over it' - but Heaven forbid that a white person lives in the same slums and has the same negative experiences as a black person, because, you know, the same experience is obviously worse for the black person. Some people actually have issues, and some 'emo kids' are actively seeking help.
Are you trying to legitimize being emo?

The mental state we call emo does not mean "Depressed" otherwise we would just call it "depressed"

Emo entails the style, and the fake attitude. That's what this discussion is about. Not teenagers with legitimate medical conditions. So before you criticize my rationale, atleast try and read into what being emo really means. (hint: it's not clinical depression)

They're whiners. I don't like whiners. Ought give the little snots something to cry about.

They are just bloody stupid:
Who the hell sits in queen street mall outside hungry jacks 7 days a week. They wear black, incredibly hot (not sexy, temperature hot) clothes in 35 degree heat. They then wear black makeup and are just... depressing to be around... Seriously, you gotta look at life with some form of optimism, or at the very least be smart about being miserable. Wear black shorts, black pluggers, and a black singlet!

One could say the same about a range of subcultures.

Also, I think the culture of emos is not good for younger people (ie, 13-15 yo). For examples, a significant number of the emos at QSM (queen street mall) are smoking. There are these 14 year old chicks come and join the group. what is going to happen: I would bet that they are going to take up smoking, something that will probably affect them for a large part of their lives.

Thus, significantly proven, being an emo is detrimental to your health.

14 year olds smoke. They are always going to do it. Emo or not.

You lie! I have seen, with my OWN EYES, an emo-pirate!

*watches Goofballs' head explode*

Then they are merely Carrrrrbon Neutral.

Once again, I find myself on the losing side of 'popular opinion'. Interesting that I support people who cut for self-gratification because of emotional issues as well as people who potentially are mentally unstable.
Supporting non-logical, non-healthy self-inflicted injuries would often and hopefully find you on the losing side of popular opinion.

You lie! I have seen, with my OWN EYES, an emo-pirate!

*watches Goofballs' head explode*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6LCkk_R1oQ

:D

Are you trying to legitimize being emo?

The mental state we call emo does not mean "Depressed" otherwise we would just call it "depressed"

Emo entails the style, and the fake attitude. That's what this discussion is about. Not teenagers with legitimate medical conditions. So before you criticize my rationale, atleast try and read into what being emo really means. (hint: it's not clinical depression)

Yes, but you see, without actually understanding people on a case-by-case basis, it's difficult to determine what's 'fake' and what's not. I've already stated that I don't have much respect for the people who don't have legitimate reasons, but that's only after I bother finding out whey they are the way they are.

In an ironic twist, 'Generalizations are bad,' he says, generalizing.

Emo kids cause global warming. They are the Anti-pirates. *nod*

Aha! It must be all the black clothes. Making them hot, which means they give off heat, which increases the world temperature.

Its all about attention. That is the main thing about emo. Its also a subculture that doesn't stand for anything. At least punk rockers had ideals.

Once again, I find myself on the losing side of 'popular opinion'. Interesting that I support people who cut for self-gratification because of emotional issues as well as people who potentially are mentally unstable.

I for one am not against people who have issues, but there are ways to sort out those issues without becoming an emo. From what you said there it sounds like you are supporting people to go and attempt self harm?

Sometimes, people just have to take the initiative to make their life better. The emos: many of them are antisocial people who have just decided "my life sucks, therefore I am not going to attempt to do anything"

Get off your arse and start making your life better. You have to put in some effort to get something back.

Its all about attention. That is the main thing about emo. Its also a subculture that doesn't stand for anything. At least punk rockers had ideals.

Whining about anarchy is more productive than whining about how your parents hate you?

More like, like every subculture, people would whine about them if they could. The problem is that Punks, unlike Emos or Hippies, could and would beat the shit out of them if they pissed them off.

Supporting non-logical, non-healthy self-inflicted injuries would often and hopefully find you on the losing side of popular opinion.

Smoking marijuana is non-logical, non-healthy and also is a cause of self-inflicted injury (albeit over time). However, smoking marijuana is not something that the majority of people outside of the USA would be too offended by. I choose to support it because it's not my right to tell someone to not harm themselves, or even go as far as killing themselves. What's your excuse for being judgemental?

Yes, but you see, without actually understanding people on a case-by-case basis, it's difficult to determine what's 'fake' and what's not. I've already stated that I don't have much respect for the people who don't have legitimate reasons, but that's only after I bother finding out whey they are the way they are.
It's still a subculture, and a shitty one. Which is what this topic is about.

If you looked, I'm pretty sure you'd find a epidemiological correlation between being emo and smoking

And the blame, almost certainly, does not fall with Emo. It is much more likely that the mindset of people likely to smoke, is also a mindset conducive to becoming an emo.

I for one am not against people who have issues, but there are ways to sort out those issues without becoming an emo. From what you said there it sounds like you are supporting people to go and attempt self harm?

Sometimes, people just have to take the initiative to make their life better. The emos: many of them are antisocial people who have just decided "my life sucks, therefore I am not going to attempt to do anything"

Get off your arse and start making your life better. You have to put in some effort to get something back.

There ya go, now you're actually differentiating. I like that. 'The people who are too apathetic to make changes in their life despite deep dissatisfaction.' There's a good working definition of the 'emo attitude'.

If we go with this definition, then yes, I find myself fully able to agree that - for the most part - it is highly difficult to find respect for these people.

One could say the same about a range of subcultures. Then one could say what I said about that same range of subcultures :rolleyes: . This conversation is about emos though. I would say the same thing if the conversation was about wiggas, or whatever else you throw at me...


14 year olds smoke. They are always going to do it. Emo or not.
If you looked, I'm pretty sure you'd find a epidemiological correlation between being emo and smoking

Well being a demon you might not understand. But people don't like most other people that aren't like them.

Also green > blue > red.

nah uh! Red is teh win! And I don't like this discrimination. Demons have just as much feeling as other people :P

Smoking marijuana is non-logical, non-healthy and also is a cause of self-inflicted injury (albeit over time). However, smoking marijuana is not something that the majority of people outside of the USA would be too offended by.
"Over time." Nice try, skip. Cutting is immediately detrimental and has no respectable positive side-effects and self-perpetuates itself. You cut, you become self-conscious, the self-consciousness from the cuts leads you to want to cut more. Plus, marijuana has medical benefit.

I choose to support it because it's not my right to tell someone to not harm themselves, or even go as far as killing themselves. What's your excuse for being judgemental?
Lack of stupidity?

If you looked, I'm pretty sure you'd find a epidemiological correlation between being emo and smoking
I'm not sure what epidemiological means but using context clues, I second.

It's still a subculture, and a shitty one. Which is what this topic is about.

You're free to your opinion. Last time I checked, the majority of people on these forums were from countries that allowed them to hold opinions. However, I don't have to respect your opinion, or you for holding it. *shrug*

If you looked, I'm pretty sure you'd find a epidemiological correlation between being emo and smoking

You've a third, good sir!

I would like to make a corollary that they tend to smoke stupid clove cigarettes in significantly higher percentages than the rest of the population.

"Over time." Nice try, skip. Cutting is immediately detrimental and has no respectable positive side-effects and self-perpetuates itself. You cut, you become self-conscious, the self-consciousness from the cuts leads you to want to cut more. Plus, marijuana has medical benefit.
Morphine also has medical benefit, but you don't see any huge civilian push to allow people to use morphine recreationally.

Lack of stupidity?
I'd wager that it's more about simply being a moralistic jerk, but hey.

A lot of people criticise emos. Deride them even. I would like to know why. What is so bad about emo kids? Why are they such objects of scorn?

Because they are generally whining, pretentious, fake little attention seekers.

You're free to your opinion. Last time I checked, the majority of people on these forums were from countries that allowed them to hold opinions. However, I don't have to respect your opinion, or you for holding it. *shrug*
And I don't accept the opinion that cutting is a valid form of self-expression. And the way you talk about it I would guess you do/did it.

I'd wager that it's more about simply being a moralistic jerk, but hey.
That sure doesn't reinforce my guess. :rolleyes:
Try it as logical reasoning. Cutting is self-perpetuating and serves no purpose. I suggest taking up tattoo collecting instead. Productive and artistic.


Morphine also has medical benefit, but you don't see any huge civilian push to allow people to use morphine recreationally.
Because its effects don't coincide very well with those needed to have a recreational drug.

There ya go, now you're actually differentiating. I like that. 'The people who are too apathetic to make changes in their life despite deep dissatisfaction.' There's a good working definition of the 'emo attitude'.

If we go with this definition, then yes, I find myself fully able to agree that - for the most part - it is highly difficult to find respect for these people.

I perceive that emo kids are simply expressing their deep dissatisfaction with the world around them and with a world that is judgmental and cruel. It's pretty hard for a 14 year old kid to make changes in their life.

And I don't accept the opinion that cutting is a valid form of self-expression. And the way you talk about it I would guess you do/did it.

Did, got over it. From the way you talk about it, I'd think that you had never done it and that you'd probably react in a hostile manner if someone around you told you that they did/do it. But to each his own, I guess. Pushing people away, accepting them - we all make choices.

I perceive that emo kids are simply expressing their deep dissatisfaction with the world around them and with a world that is judgmental and cruel. It's pretty hard for a 14 year old kid to make changes in their life.

I was the ass end of the social ladder when I was fourteen. If I can put up with the pompous shit I received from my fellow students, and turn my life around, anybody can. Whining about it just displays who is weak.

Because they are generally whining, pretentious, fake little attention seekers.

I'd say the same about many on this forum tbh. Not a majority by any means, but many. I'd also say that about every subculture. Many which don't attract nearly as much negativity as emo. I'm curious as to why emo specifically seems to attract such negativity.

That sure doesn't reinforce my guess. :roll:
Try it as logical reasoning. Cutting is self-perpetuating and serves no purpose. I suggest taking up tattoo collecting instead. Productive and artistic.
Or ugly and unattractive, and also an impairment to getting a job, provided that said person is as indiscriminate about tattoo placement as you seem to believe that cutters are about the choices they make about location on the body.

Because its effects don't coincide very well with those needed to have a recreational drug.
Being able to pick and choose is wonderful, isn't it? :)

The problem is the "emo movement" as it is portrayed in the mainstream began in middle to upper middle class white suburbia. Now I understand real problems, lots of people have had real problems.

But that's the point, most of these kids (and again, some of them might) have no real problems, they come from, as I said, probably the most privlidged background kids can come from. Many people in this world have suffered far far worse for far far longer, and I dare say that the good bulk of the "emo child" population have not suffered any real, true problems in their lives.

The woman I've been sorta seeing has a phd in sociology and we were talking a few days ago about similar phenominon, and we both sort of came to the conclusion that the emo lifestyle has developed over actually having no real problems. When life is hard, when it's REAL hard, you're too busy doing everything you can to stay afloat. You don't see emo in the slums of zimbabwe. You don't see emo in the hunter gatherer tribes of the amazon. You don't see emo in the streets of tibet. You don't see emo in the slums of East Hartford or Detroit.

You see emo in places where the average person is far far better off then the vast majority of this planet. When things are bad you don't expend the energy contemplating how bad they are, you don't have the time or energy to expend on anything else other than staying alive.

Which is where my distate from the whole thing comes from, the emo movement has grown into a group of priviledged youth bemoaning the "difficulties" of their priviledge upbringing, having never known a day of real, true hardship.

Now don't get me wrong, some of them have had brutal childhoods, you will find that present in ANY demographic. But the vast bulk of them? No, not really. Which is really my problem with it, it's an entire culture derived from being miserable about your lifestyle when 99% of the planet would trade places with you in an instant.

Did, got over it. From the way you talk about it, I'd think that you had never done it and that you'd probably react in a hostile manner if someone around you told you that they did/do it.
Hostile? I guess you could take my blunt personality as hostile but the people that know me probably understand the difference by now. But I'm not going to accept letting some one be self-destructive for the sake of self-destruction.

But to each his own, I guess. Pushing people away, accepting them - we all make choices.
You are the only one pushing people away here.

Being able to pick and choose is wonderful, isn't it?
Morphine has nothing to do with marijuana or cutting. And I factually explained why it isn't a recreational drug, as opposed to marijuana whose effects are recreational.

The problem is the "emo movement" as it is portrayed in the mainstream began in middle to upper middle class white suburbia. Now I understand real problems, lots of people have had real problems.

But that's the point, most of these kids (and again, some of them might) have no real problems, they come from, as I said, probably the most privlidged background kids can come from. Many people in this world have suffered far far worse for far far longer, and I dare say that the good bulk of the "emo child" population have not suffered any real, true problems in their lives.

The woman I've been sorta seeing has a phd in sociology and we were talking a few days ago about similar phenominon, and we both sort of came to the conclusion that the emo lifestyle has developed over actually having no real problems. When life is hard, when it's REAL hard, you're too busy doing everything you can to stay afloat. You don't see emo in the slums of zimbabwe. You don't see emo in the hunter gatherer tribes of the amazon. You don't see emo in the streets of tibet. You don't see emo in the slums of East Hartford or Detroit.

You see emo in places where the average person is far far better off then the vast majority of this planet. When things are bad you don't expend the energy contemplating how bad they are, you don't have the time or energy to expend on anything else other than staying alive.

Which is where my distate from the whole thing comes from, the emo movement has grown into a group of priviledged youth bemoaning the "difficulties" of their priviledge upbringing, having never known a day of real, true hardship.

Now don't get me wrong, some of them have had brutal childhoods, you will find that present in ANY demographic. But the vast bulk of them? No, not really. Which is really my problem with it, it's an entire culture derived from being miserable about your lifestyle when 99% of the planet would trade places with you in an instant.

Very true. I actually view being emo as quite selfish and just lazy as well.

I perceive that emo kids are simply expressing their deep dissatisfaction with the world around them and with a world that is judgmental and cruel.

THe problem is, as I have said, most of those kids, at least in the states, have better lives than the VAST majority of people on this planet. Being "deeply dissatisfied" about what is in essence of priviledge existance is not emotionally deep, it's not laudable, it's not commendable. It's juvenile.

I'd say the same about many on this forum tbh. Not a majority by any means, but many. I'd also say that about every subculture. Many which don't attract nearly as much negativity as emo. I'm curious as to why emo specifically seems to attract such negativity.

Because they're perceived as not having emotional fortitude. Frankly, there's nothing wrong with being a weak person. It's just never been fashionable to need to be taken care of. Not saying that I agree with that, but hey. There it is.

The problem is the "emo movement" as it is portrayed in the mainstream began in middle to upper middle class white suburbia. Now I understand real problems, lots of people have had real problems.

But that's the point, most of these kids (and again, some of them might) have no real problems, they come from, as I said, probably the most privlidged background kids can come from. Many people in this world have suffered far far worse for far far longer, and I dare say that the good bulk of the "emo child" population have not suffered any real, true problems in their lives.

The woman I've been sorta seeing has a phd in sociology and we were talking a few days ago about similar phenominon, and we both sort of came to the conclusion that the emo lifestyle has developed over actually having no real problems. When life is hard, when it's REAL hard, you're too busy doing everything you can to stay afloat. You don't see emo in the slums of zimbabwe. You don't see emo in the hunter gatherer tribes of the amazon. You don't see emo in the streets of tibet. You don't see emo in the slums of East Hartford or Detroit.

You see emo in places where the average person is far far better off then the vast majority of this planet. When things are bad you don't expend the energy contemplating how bad they are, you don't have the time or energy to expend on anything else other than staying alive.

Which is where my distate from the whole thing comes from, the emo movement has grown into a group of priviledged youth bemoaning the "difficulties" of their priviledge upbringing, having never known a day of real, true hardship.

Now don't get me wrong, some of them have had brutal childhoods, you will find that present in ANY demographic. But the vast bulk of them? No, not really. Which is really my problem with it, it's an entire culture derived from being miserable about your lifestyle when 99% of the planet would trade places with you in an instant.

Absolute and full agreement.

I was the ass end of the social ladder when I was fourteen. If I can put up with the pompous shit I received from my fellow students, and turn my life around, anybody can. Whining about it just displays who is weak.

Were emo around when I was in high school, that's what I would have been. Didn't cut though. Looking back on it, I probably had minor depression, which I am still prone to.

Who's to say that they won't turn their lives around when they leave high school? Right now, I think they are just mixed up, and confused and rebelling against the belief that they have no reason to be depressed or unhappy with their lives because they are white middle-class kids. Everyone has issues. Everyone thinks their personal pain and sadness is more sad and painful than everyone else's.

Hostile? I guess you could take my blunt personality as hostile but the people that know me probably understand the difference by now. But I'm not going to accept letting some one be self-destructive for the sake of self-destruction.
You don't have to accept it, because it's not your place to accept or reject choices that others make. A person's body is their business, not yours. ;)

You are the only one pushing people away here.
I'm fine with rejecting people who are arrogant, so long as it's specifically because they're arrogant. It's one of the least attractive personality traits, second only to a lack of tact.

But how do you know what they are going through? I know that a lot of people have taken on what they perceive as being emo, which is the clothes and the fake attitude, but I mean, people seem to deride any outward displays of emotion, anyone who is depressed for what they perceive as no reason, as being emo. They trash people who feel out-of-place in the world as being emo. I don't think it's really tolerant or understanding.

They aren't really depressed. They feel out of place just as much as computer nerds, but the latter don't act with such self-indulgent tripe that emos do. Real depression as best I can tell doesn't eventuate in wearing a certain style of clothing and music. That is just angst bullshit. Real depression is a lot scarier.

Everyone thinks their personal pain and sadness is more sad and painful than everyone else's.

No, not everyone. Most people recognize that while they feel their own pain far more accutely than they feel others pain, it is the height of egoism and self centered thought to believe that you are suffering the most, you are the worst off.

To believe so is the height of arrogance.

And that's the problem with the emo subculture, they believe exactly that.

THe problem is, as I have said, most of those kids, at least in the states, have better lives than the VAST majority of people on this planet. Being "deeply dissatisfied" about what is in essence of priviledge existance is not emotionally deep, it's not laudable, it's not commendable. It's juvenile.

When you're going to compare people, you at least have to compare people who are of similar socioeconomic status for the comparison to not be completely shallow.

After all, how well is a middle-class teenage white child who has just lost a sibling going to take a statement like, 'Hey, at least you're not some poor black kid in Niger who's lost ten siblings to starvation!'

When you're going to compare people, you at least have to compare people who are of similar socioeconomic status for the comparison to not be completely shallow.

After all, how well is a middle-class teenage white child who has just lost a sibling going to take a statement like, 'Hey, at least you're not some poor black kid in Niger who's lost ten siblings to starvation!'

All very true. Real true suffering can not be negated by "hey, could be worse!"

How many of them have lost a sibling? How many of them have gone to sleep hungry? How many of them have slept on the street?

How many of them have any real, true, legitimate complaint about their lives other than "school sucks", "I feel sad" and "my parents won't let me do what I want, when I'm 18 I'm SO out of here!"

Mostly it's the declaration of themselves being emo when they always maintain that they are individual and not sheep- quite a paradox when you are copying a group of people for the image.

And the cutting is for image alot of the time, this emo (or wannabee emo) girl in Year 10, this was back in Yr11, runs up to me and shows of that she's been cutting her shoulders and she's all proud that she's been cutting herself and runs off to show all the other people round where we were. That not being the only example- my best friend using like a compass and ruler to make it look like he'd been cutting himself in Yr8 to impress some girl who'd tried to killl herself.

Then there's people who you can class as emo not because of how they look but because they can't get over the same damn problem- she's not interested? Stop asking her bloody out then if it causes so much grief. I really have to stop asking him how he's doing, all he does is beef. And alot of the time it goes off on a tangent like when I sided with another friend when he was outta line, and when I recently tore into him for his dogmatic xenophobia.

Don't like emos much. But chavs are far more worthy of my contempt.

You don't have to accept it, because it's not your place to accept or reject choices that others make. A person's body is their business, not yours.
And I don't have to let them be free of my opinions on it either.

I'm fine with rejecting people who are arrogant, so long as it's specifically because they're arrogant. It's one of the least attractive personality traits, second only to a lack of tact.
Isn't this just self-righteous? Supporting people doing stupid shit for the sake of solidarity is stupid. That is what you are doing. "I did it, it's ok, it's none of your business." It sounds like you arn't really over it because you obviously don't recognize it as directly detrimental to the person, like bulimia or anorexia.
And then, you go off on anyone of an opposing opinion. Pot meet Kettle.

No, not everyone. Most people recognize that while they feel their own pain far more accutely than they feel others pain, it is the height of egoism and self centered thought to believe that you are suffering the most, you are the worst off.

To believe so is the height of arrogance.

And that's the problem with the emo subculture, they believe exactly that.

So do a large number of teenagers, including blonde drama queens - and I certainly wouldn't classify them as emo. However, as for it being a trait of a large percentage of the emo subculture, you have a point.

So do a large number of teenagers, including blonde drama queens - and I certainly wouldn't classify them as emo.

emo no, equally as egotistical, yes

However, as for it being a trait of a large percentage of the emo subculture, you have a point.

Which is my point. Every group will have a percentage of people who do that. Every group will have its egoists.

Emo in particular doesn't just HAVE those egoists, that level of self centered egotism is pretty much one of the defining and predomenant traits of emo.

I'm fine with rejecting people who are arrogant, so long as it's specifically because they're arrogant. It's one of the least attractive personality traits, second only to a lack of tact.

Like the arrogance of assuming that your "problems" are anything special and gives you a right to be lazy and overly... well... "emo" is the only word I can think of right now. Especially when compared to the rest of the world.

And I don't have to let them be free of my opinions on it either.
True, but they can choose to ignore you. :)

Isn't this just self-righteous? Supporting people doing stupid shit for the sake of solidarity is stupid. That is what you are doing. "I did it, it's ok, it's none of your business." It sounds like you arn't really over it because you obviously don't recognize it as directly detrimental to the person, like bulimia or anorexia.
And then, you go off on anyone of an opposing opinion. Pot meet Kettle.
I don't recoginize it as directly detrimental, any more so than drinking alcohol, smoking marijuana for a non-medical reason, or indulging in heroin. However, simply because I've done three out of the four doesn't mean that my opinion is irrelevant with regards to whether or not it should be permitted.

When you're going to compare people, you at least have to compare people who are of similar socioeconomic status for the comparison to not be completely shallow.

After all, how well is a middle-class teenage white child who has just lost a sibling going to take a statement like, 'Hey, at least you're not some poor black kid in Niger who's lost ten siblings to starvation!'

The point is that the emo subculture is not based on any personal tragedy. No beatings, no lost siblings, not even not getting your favorite sandwich for lunch.
Of course the comparisons to third-world countries are absurd. The comparison to people living in the bad part of Detroit is apt. Emo exists where people have no real hardships to compare their hardships to.

Then there's people who you can class as emo not because of how they look but because they can't get over the same damn problem- she's not interested? Stop asking her bloody out then if it causes so much grief. .

I think that's a good point, and I really think this heighlights a lot of people's problems about the subculture. It's a group that, instead of prompting people to fix their problems, work through their issues, and try to be a happier, healthier person, glorifies those issues, revels in them, and when none are available, magnifies trivialities ore makes them the fuck up just for the express purpose of feeling bad about something.

I perceive that emo kids are simply expressing their deep dissatisfaction with the world around them and with a world that is judgmental and cruel. It's pretty hard for a 14 year old kid to make changes in their life.

That last sentence was 100% Class A export quality bullshit!
It is not hard at all:
As was already said by Andaluciae: School is a tough time, but the kids have to take some responsibility upon themselves at 14 to work out where they want to go in life. I know of kids who have grown up on the wrong side of the metaphorical tracks: they could have become ratbags like the rest of their childhood friends or they can go and do somthing productive with their life and teenage years.

edit: and unfortunatly, vice versa

Like the arrogance of assuming that your "problems" are anything special and gives you a right to be lazy and overly... well... "emo" is the only word I can think of right now. Especially when compared to the rest of the world.

Zing. Hydesland wins - although I do object to the use of 'you' unless you're using it as an impersonal pronoun.

As I said, support of stupid shit for the sake of solidarity is stupid.
And as I've said, whether or not I choose to indulge in what others do, I believe that a person's body is their own - not only do you not have a right to compel others to do or not to do things with their body, you also don't have the right to make judgements about what others choose to do.

Kapiche?

I don't recoginize it as directly detrimental, any more so than drinking alcohol, smoking marijuana for a non-medical reason, or indulging in heroin. However, simply because I've done three out of the four doesn't mean that my opinion is irrelevant with regards to whether or not it should be permitted.
As I said, support of stupid shit for the sake of solidarity is stupid.

you also don't have the right to make judgements about what others choose to do.

Bullshit I don't have the right to make judgements about other people's actions. Our entire legal system is built around nothing else BUT making judgements about other people's actions.

If I view something as morally wrong, I will view someone as morally wrong who does those acts. The idea that for some reason I can't make judgements about someone is absurd. I have no right to impose my morality ON them however, but to say I have no right to judge people is just silly.

And as I've said, whether or not I choose to indulge in what others do, I believe that a person's body is their own - not only do you not have a right to compel others to do or not to do things with their body, you also don't have the right to make judgements about what others choose to do.

Kapiche?

No Kapiche.

If someone does something that I think is stupid, I will hold it against them.

You're argument is absurd. Of course I have a right to judge others.

The problem is the "emo movement" as it is portrayed in the mainstream began in middle to upper middle class white suburbia. Now I understand real problems, lots of people have had real problems.

But that's the point, most of these kids (and again, some of them might) have no real problems, they come from, as I said, probably the most privlidged background kids can come from. Many people in this world have suffered far far worse for far far longer, and I dare say that the good bulk of the "emo child" population have not suffered any real, true problems in their lives.

The woman I've been sorta seeing has a phd in sociology and we were talking a few days ago about similar phenominon, and we both sort of came to the conclusion that the emo lifestyle has developed over actually having no real problems. When life is hard, when it's REAL hard, you're too busy doing everything you can to stay afloat. You don't see emo in the slums of zimbabwe. You don't see emo in the hunter gatherer tribes of the amazon. You don't see emo in the streets of tibet. You don't see emo in the slums of East Hartford or Detroit.

You see emo in places where the average person is far far better off then the vast majority of this planet. When things are bad you don't expend the energy contemplating how bad they are, you don't have the time or energy to expend on anything else other than staying alive.

Which is where my distate from the whole thing comes from, the emo movement has grown into a group of priviledged youth bemoaning the "difficulties" of their priviledge upbringing, having never known a day of real, true hardship.

Now don't get me wrong, some of them have had brutal childhoods, you will find that present in ANY demographic. But the vast bulk of them? No, not really. Which is really my problem with it, it's an entire culture derived from being miserable about your lifestyle when 99% of the planet would trade places with you in an instant.

Or maybe it's about the guilt that people like me feel about not being happy with our lives, knowing that we are priveliged in our existence. I worked with a girl who had a very traumatic childhood. She refused to understand that anyone who was not molested, beaten or otherwise mistreated had real problems. Anyone who had two loving parents, a house, and had never been severely abused couldn't possibly have real problems.

I felt guilty my whole childhood, because I had such a great childhood. I grew up in an area where it was rare to know who your father was, and physical abuse and neglect was extremely common. I felt guilty every time I got angry with my parents, or felt unhappy, or dissatisfied with my situation, because I had nothing to complain about, I had everything I could want.

In high school, and my first year of uni, I cried myself to sleep every night for no reason. I had mood swings, and I felt totally isolated. I went to bed hoping that I would not wake up the next day. I felt so incredibly guilty about these feelings, because I knew that I had no reason to feel this way. I couldn't help it. And when I tried talking to people about it, they told me to think of all the things I had that other people didn't, how lucky I was. Which made me feel even worse.

I have since come to terms with the fact that I have no reason to feel guilty that I had a great childhood. I also remind myself every day that it is no less than I deserve, and that there is no need for me to feel grateful for what every person on this planet should have. But when I was going through that, it would have been really nice to have someone tell me that what I felt was okay, that I didn't need to feel guilty or grateful or anything. That my feelings were okay to feel.

I think that is all emo kids are looking for in most cases. A legitimisation that they have problems too. That it's okay for them to feel sadness, and dissatisfaction with their lives.

And as I've said, whether or not I choose to indulge in what others do, I believe that a person's body is their own - not only do you not have a right to compel others to do or not to do things with their body, you also don't have the right to make judgements about what others choose to do.
I have the right to make judgments about whatever I want. And I have the right to argue with people about things I feel are detrimental to their health, especially self-injury and other body image compulsions.

Bullshit I don't have the right to make judgements about other people's actions. Our entire legal system is built around nothing else BUT making judgements about other people's actions.

If I view something as morally wrong, I will view someone as morally wrong who does those acts. The idea that for some reason I can't make judgements about someone is absurd. I have no right to impose my morality ON them however, but to say I have no right to judge people is just silly.

Actions against themselves? Also, I'd like to point out that 'our' legal system isn't a common legal system. My country's legal system won't imprison someone for failing to kill themselves.

And as for the second part, pardon me. You have a point and I retract the statement, as I misspoke. Treating people in a manner that is different than they would treat a 'normal' person for something that someone chooses to do, that's something that I'd definitely argue over.

And that makes it okay? When you're 5, is crying because you dont get your way okay, just because that's what kids do? No, it's not okay. If you cry because you don't get your way, you get punished. That's what's supposed to happen.

You do things you shouldn't do, you get punished/encouraged not to do that anymore.

You can't punish teenagers for being angst filled idiots. But you sure as hell can mock them and encourage them not to be.

In order for someone to grow up, they need to be taught that what they're doing is childish and stupid. Letting teenagers be "emo" idiots is not exactly helping them grow up.

Whats the beef man? There is no question of okay or not, it just is.

Teenagers, have done, do now, and will act a certian way. It is not an issue of okay or not.

You can't make a teenagre grow up, as you put it, this happens naturaly over the course of time, it is called life.

Teenagers whinge, and moan, and mope, then they hit 20ish, get seriously intrested in sex, and this all stops(for the most part).

Do you really, I mean really, want to have a whine and a moan about teenagers who moan and whinge? I mean you'd have to be a teenager to want to do that, surly?

That last sentence was 100% Class A export quality bullshit!
It is not hard at all:
As was already said by Andaluciae: School is a tough time, but the kids have to take some responsibility upon themselves at 14 to work out where they want to go in life. I know of kids who have grown up on the wrong side of the metaphorical tracks: they could have become ratbags like the rest of their childhood friends or they can go and do somthing productive with their life and teenage years.

edit: and unfortunatly, vice versa

But how hard did those kids from the wrong side of the tracks have to work?

Most kids know where they want to go in life. Most people end up in a completely different place. Personally, I don't see why emos are attacked more than skaties or surfies or any other group, except that they are an easy target. I don't admire emos, any more than I admire the 'Bra Boys (a surf gang in NSW that has produced some world class surfers while raping, murdering and bashing anyone who gets in their way). The perception however, appears to be that it's okay to be a thug at 15, but not sensitive or unhappy.

I still don't know what they look like. :confused:

How are parents supposed to react to something they know nothing about?

And can an emo still be an emo if you cheer him/her up? Is cuppa-soup their kryptonite!? :gundge: :D

If we aren't allowed to judge others then what the hell is the point of these forums- isn't that alot of what we do. isn't a significant part of society based on it? The legal system anyone?

Aren't you judging people by saying they are wrong for judging?

Or maybe it's about the guilt that people like me feel about not being happy with our lives, knowing that we are priveliged in our existence.

Oh please, that's exactly the self indulgent crap I was talking about. "I feel bad because I have nothing to feel bad about?" Come on. If you think the world is in a shit place do something about it, do something about it, don't be miserable because you are one of the few people in the world who has no reason to be miserable.


I worked with a girl who had a very traumatic childhood. She refused to understand that anyone who was not molested, beaten or otherwise mistreated had real problems. Anyone who had two loving parents, a house, and had never been severely abused couldn't possibly have real problems.

Well I don't like the caveat "severely" but I will say that anyone who has a lit, warm home with food on the table and hot water and clean clothes to wear, and parent(s) that look out for them and protect them and they have never suffered abuse...

No, no real problems, outside a neurochemical imbalance perhaps, which I admit is pretty bad itself sometimes

I felt guilty my whole childhood, because I had such a great childhood. I grew up in an area where it was rare to know who your father was, and physical abuse and neglect was extremely common. I felt guilty every time I got angry with my parents, or felt unhappy, or dissatisfied with my situation, because I had nothing to complain about, I had everything I could want.

And this is my point, the entire emo culture is built around either feeling bad about yourself for miniscule problems, or feeling bad that you have nothing to feel bad about.

It's the absolute height of self indulgence, made entirely disrespectable by the fact that it begins with the recognition that some peoples lives are shit, but then uses that recognition to feel bad about YOURSELF rather than fixing problem. It's the ultimite form of self aggrandizement, I have no problems, other people have problems, so I'm going to use the rather serious problems of OTHER people as an excuse to feel bad about ME. It's not recognition of global concerns for any nobel purpose, it's not to actually affectuate change.

It's looking at real, serious problems as a reason to feel bad about yourself. It's using OTHER peoples actual, REAL suffering as an enabling mechanism.

And frankly, that's disgusting.

In high school, and my first year of uni, I cried myself to sleep every night for no reason. I had mood swings, and I felt totally isolated. I went to bed hoping that I would not wake up the next day. I felt so incredibly guilty about these feelings, because I knew that I had no reason to feel this way. I couldn't help it. And when I tried talking to people about it, they told me to think of all the things I had that other people didn't, how lucky I was. Which made me feel even worse.

And that is called "depression". I know it well, battled with it most of my life. People who have it should get therapy, or get drugs. I've gotten both.

It's ok to have depression, it is. It's crippling, it's debilitating, trust me, I know, been there. The trick is to DO something about it.

I think that is all emo kids are looking for in most cases. A legitimisation that they have problems too. That it's okay for them to feel sadness, and dissatisfaction with their lives.

No, they don't want to be told it's ok to feel bad, they want excuses TO feel bad, and will take any one they can get, including other people's suffering.

Whats the beef man? There is no question of okay or not, it just is.

Teenagers, have done, do now, and will act a certian way. It is not an issue of okay or not.

You can't make a teenagre grow up, as you put it, this happens naturaly over the course of time, it is called life.

Teenagers whinge, and moan, and mope, then they hit 20ish, get seriously intrested in sex, and this all stops(for the most part).

Do you really, I mean really, want to have a whine and a moan about teenagers who moan and whinge? I mean you'd have to be a teenager to want to do that, surly?

The main argument against 'emo'-ness is that it's not an 'effective coping mechanism', much like bedwetting or things of that sort.

Then again, there's also the argument that doesn't provide even that much thought - 'it's annoying, they should stop'.

Actions against themselves? Also, I'd like to point out that 'our' legal system isn't a common legal system. My country's legal system won't imprison someone for failing to kill themselves.

And as for the second part, pardon me. You have a point and I retract the statement, as I misspoke. Treating people in a manner that is different than they would treat a 'normal' person for something that someone chooses to do, that's something that I'd definitely argue over.

First, the argument is not that cutting is illegal, or that suicide is illegal, it's that legal systems are based around judging others for their actions. If you refuse to recognize that it is appropriate to judge others, then you refuse to recognize the legitimacy of a legal system.

I know that I'm going to judge people. It's the only way to decide who you like and you don't like. Who you want to work for you and who you don't want in that position. If I own a business, I'm not going to hire a habitual drug user, nor am I going to hire whole other groups of people, based solely off of what they do to themselves.

If we aren't allowed to judge others then what the hell is the point of these forums- isn't that alot of what we do. isn't a significant part of society based on it? The legal system anyone?

Aren't you judging people by saying they are wrong for judging?

Reading comprehension for the win. I stated that people have no right to judge other people based on what those people choose to do to themselves. With that stipulation, the rest of your post just sorta falls apart, especially considering that judging others, if it affects your behaviour towards them, affects them as well, not simply yourself.

And no, in case you were wondering, I don't think laws against suicide, or regulating drug use, et cetera, are valid. :P

Reading comprehension for the win. I stated that people have no right to judge other people based on what those people choose to do to themselves. With that stipulation, the rest of your post just sorta falls apart, especially considering that judging others, if it affects your behaviour towards them, affects them as well, not simply yourself.

And no, in case you were wondering, I don't think laws against suicide, or regulating drug use, et cetera, are valid. :P

I think we do indeed realize what you are saying, and totally reject it.

First, the argument is not that cutting is illegal, or that suicide is illegal, it's that legal systems are based around judging others for their actions. If you refuse to recognize that it is appropriate to judge others, then you refuse to recognize the legitimacy of a legal system.

I know that I'm going to judge people. It's the only way to decide who you like and you don't like. Who you want to work for you and who you don't want in that position. If I own a business, I'm not going to hire a habitual drug user, nor am I going to hire whole other groups of people, based solely off of what they do to themselves.

Of course, in Canada, you could be sued for that and you would lose. You would have to prove that their behaviour off-the-job affects their on the job performance, and in addition to that, that needing an employee that doesn't have their behaviour is a legitimate occupational requirement.

Of course, in Canada, you could be sued for that and you would lose. You would have to prove that their behaviour off-the-job affects their on the job performance, and in addition to that, that needing an employee that doesn't have their behaviour is a legitimate occupational requirement.

Which could easily be proven in virtually all hard drug use instances.

And I don't live in Canada.

Which could easily be proven in virtually all hard drug use instances.

And I don't live in Canada.

Not exactly - so long as they had neither been under the influence at a previous job nor indulged at a previous job, you'd be out of luck. In addition, you'd also have to know about it in the first place. And a person who cuts for self-gratification isn't going to necessarily have the scars in obvious places. Thighs, for example, or on their torso. And then you would be none the wiser.

And it's unfortunate that you don't live in Canada. How does it feel to live in a system where you don't have as much control over your body as people living a few thousand miles away?

Not exactly - so long as they had neither been under the influence at a previous job nor indulged at a previous job, you'd be out of luck. In addition, you'd also have to know about it in the first place. And a person who cuts for self-gratification isn't going to necessarily have the scars in obvious places. Thighs, for example, or on their torso. And then you would be none the wiser.

And it's unfortunate that you don't live in Canada. How does it feel to live in a system where you don't have as much control over your body as people living a few thousand miles away?

I'm rather happy with my ability have control over who might work for me, in any business venture I might undertake.

Further, I could easily prove that hard drugs have had a negative impact on the mental faculties and abilities of a job applicant, and that knowing that, I would be perfectly justified to not hire them on those grounds.

Take note, I do indeed differentiate between Marijuana and hard drugs, as I think current restrictions on Marijuana are idiotic. It does little damage, no more than smoking tobacco, so why should I be bothered about that.

Not exactly - so long as they had neither been under the influence at a previous job nor indulged at a previous job, you'd be out of luck. In addition, you'd also have to know about it in the first place. And a person who cuts for self-gratification isn't going to necessarily have the scars in obvious places. Thighs, for example, or on their torso. And then you would be none the wiser.

And it's unfortunate that you don't live in Canada. How does it feel to live in a system where you don't have as much control over your body as people living a few thousand miles away?

He's talking about drugs, not cutting. Emos cut in obvious places. Helps them get attention.

But how do you know what they are going through? I know that a lot of people have taken on what they perceive as being emo, which is the clothes and the fake attitude, but I mean, people seem to deride any outward displays of emotion, anyone who is depressed for what they perceive as no reason, as being emo. They trash people who feel out-of-place in the world as being emo. I don't think it's really tolerant or understanding.

I understand why people who have actually matured deride emos who get in their face.

It's because it's easy to see how stupid emo really is.

As was said before, the whole emo thing seems to revolve around an irrational over-response to ordinary life events.

So you lost your girlfriend. Sure, there's an appropriate emotional response to that. But going emo over it certainly isn't.

Further, I'd prefer to be able to choose with whom I associate, rather than have it dictated to me by the state.

Take note, I do indeed differentiate between Marijuana and hard drugs, as I think current restrictions on Marijuana are idiotic. It does little damage, no more than smoking tobacco, so why should I be bothered about that.

Physically harming oneself does little damage - provided that it's done carefully - and provides an endorphin rush. So long as a person takes care of the wound or wounds and it doesn't lead to serious conditions, why would you be bothered about that either?

Further, I'd prefer to be able to choose with whom I associate, rather than have it dictated to me by the state.
You're free to do so, but not in a workplace, employer or not. :) If you're not going to hire someone, it has to be for a reason that is a legitimate occupational requirement - same thing with firing. One of the better things about Canada. After all, there's no law stating that you have to invite your employees over for dinner and associate with them outside of work. :)

Physically harming oneself does little damage - provided that it's done carefully - and provides an endorphin rush. So long as a person takes care of the wound or wounds and it doesn't lead to serious conditions, why would you be bothered about that either?

I don't want to pay taxes to fund the emergency services people who have to respond to your self-mangling emotional whatsit.

And emergency services will respond.

I actually think that if you're suicidal to that extent, your relatives should have the choice of asking the emergency services people to either have you committed (if that's their choice), or asking the emergency services people to give you a whiff of hydrogen sulfide so you kick off and no one has to deal with this sort of idiocy anymore.

He's talking about drugs, not cutting. Emos cut in obvious places. Helps them get attention.

The side-conversation on drugs was started a while ago by myself and another as a parallel to cutting.

I don't want to pay taxes to fund the emergency services people who have to respond to your self-mangling emotional whatsit.

And emergency services will respond.

I actually think that if you're suicidal to that extent, your relatives should have the choice of asking the emergency services people to either have you committed (if that's their choice), or asking the emergency services people to give you a whiff of hydrogen sulfide so you kick off and no one has to deal with this sort of idiocy anymore.

Oh noes, I cut myself with a razor over 100 times and it's only minor flesh wounds which will heal! I obviously need to be carted off to the hospital. :roll: Suicidal tendencies != cutting, genius.

cutting has little to do with being suicidal.

The EMTs aren't going to have any leeway in telling the difference.

They're going to take you to a psych eval.

I don't want to pay taxes to fund the emergency services people who have to respond to your self-mangling emotional whatsit.

And emergency services will respond.

I actually think that if you're suicidal to that extent, your relatives should have the choice of asking the emergency services people to either have you committed (if that's their choice), or asking the emergency services people to give you a whiff of hydrogen sulfide so you kick off and no one has to deal with this sort of idiocy anymore.

cutting has little to do with being suicidal.

The main argument against 'emo'-ness is that it's not an 'effective coping mechanism', much like bedwetting or things of that sort.

Then again, there's also the argument that doesn't provide even that much thought - 'it's annoying, they should stop'.


Umm an argument against Emo-ness!

So what you are saying boils down to no more than a bunch of old grannies complaining about 'kids these days'. Hehh I find that both funny and ironic, as I suspect that the majority of those whingeing about emo kids are just teenagers with differing musical and fashion tastes.

You're free to do so, but not in a workplace, employer or not. :) If you're not going to hire someone, it has to be for a reason that is a legitimate occupational requirement - same thing with firing. One of the better things about Canada. After all, there's no law stating that you have to invite your employees over for dinner and associate with them outside of work. :)

How the hell can substance abuse NOT have a derogatory effect on workplace performance? Ecstasy, for example, literally kills parts of the brain. Cocaine addiction is guaranteed to have negative effects. Hard drugs will have negative effects of workplace performance, whether you're on them on the job or not.

How the hell can substance abuse NOT have a derogatory effect on workplace performance?

Try driving a truck while tripping on acid.

Try driving a truck while tripping on acid.

That's being under the influence at the workplace, which I specifically discounted as being a disqualifier. Try again.

cutting has little to do with being suicidal.

I love you, Smunkee; even if we end up disagreeing on some things, you agree with me on the basics of most things. <3

Oh please, that's exactly the self indulgent crap I was talking about. "I feel bad because I have nothing to feel bad about?" Come on. If you think the world is in a shit place do something about it, do something about it, don't be miserable because you are one of the few people in the world who has no reason to be miserable.

I didn't say I felt bad, I said that when I was dissatisfied about my life, I then felt guilty about it, because my friend down the street got the crap beaten out of him for talking too loudly, and I didn't get the toy I wanted for my birthday. I have long since gotten over my feelings of guilt and have accepted that my feelings of dissatisfaction were perfectly normal. I also accept that people who have "everything" have every right to feel miserable about things. They have as much right as the people who have "good reason" to feel miserable. My reasons for feeling miserable are legitimate. Moreso than my ex-best friend who had a shitty childhood which he now uses as an excuse for everything he does.

I have far less time for those people who did suffer abuse in their childhood who now use it as an excuse for everything they do wrong. "I do drugs because of my shitty childhood." "I drink because my father beat the shit out of me." "I overeat because I was molested." "I start fights because I watched my mum get the shit beaten out of her when I was a kid." "I deal drugs because my parents were drug addicts." No sorry, you do those things out of personal choice. Learn some self-control and take control of your life.




Well I don't like the caveat "severely" but I will say that anyone who has a lit, warm home with food on the table and hot water and clean clothes to wear, and parent(s) that look out for them and protect them and they have never suffered abuse...

No, no real problems, outside a neurochemical imbalance perhaps, which I admit is pretty bad itself sometimes

Those people have real problems, just like anyone else. Everyone has problems. Just some are more life-altering than others. Noone should have their problems dismissed because they "have nothing to complain about."



And this is my point, the entire emo culture is built around either feeling bad about yourself for miniscule problems, or feeling bad that you have nothing to feel bad about.

I do plenty to try to help my fellow man, because I am in a position to do so. I volunteer at my local migrant centre tutoring refugee kids in English, I volunteer at my community centre helping the vulnerable access services. I used to feel bad if I was feeling overwhelmed about a uni assignment because "so many people never have the opportunity to go to uni."

It's the absolute height of self indulgence, made entirely disrespectable by the fact that it begins with the recognition that some peoples lives are shit, but then uses that recognition to feel bad about YOURSELF rather than fixing problem. It's the ultimite form of self aggrandizement, I have no problems, other people have problems, so I'm going to use the rather serious problems of OTHER people as an excuse to feel bad about ME. It's not recognition of global concerns for any nobel purpose, it's not to actually affectuate change.

No what it was for me was a recognition that when my friends shit on me, that I should feel grateful that my lives weren't as bad as theirs. I affect change wherever I can. I help as many people as possible. But I have the right to feel dissatisfied that I went to uni for 4 years to get a teaching degree, and can't get permanent work, because our government won't hire teachers on a permanent basis. I shouldn't feel guilty that I feel dissatisfied with this situation because at least I got to go to uni.

It's looking at real, serious problems as a reason to feel bad about yourself. It's using OTHER peoples actual, REAL suffering as an enabling mechanism.

And frankly, that's disgusting.

So now I'm self-indulgent and disgusting because I am saying that I shouldn't have to feel guilty that I'm so lucky when other people are not?



And that is called "depression". I know it well, battled with it most of my life. People who have it should get therapy, or get drugs. I've gotten both.

It's ok to have depression, it is. It's crippling, it's debilitating, trust me, I know, been there. The trick is to DO something about it.

Yeah well, noone knew what I was going through, because when I tried to talk about it, I was told, "You're being ungrateful, look at what you have compared to other people." Had someone listened to me, perhaps I would have realised that something was indeed wrong with me.



No, they don't want to be told it's ok to feel bad, they want excuses TO feel bad, and will take any one they can get, including other people's suffering.

Well, no. I always felt bad BECAUSE other people were suffering. Because that was what I was told. I felt guilty for having such a wonderful life. I decided as an adult that I had nothing to feel guilty about, because it wasn't my fault. I got the lucky end of the gene pool. But my whole life I have worked to make other people's lives better. At first this was to alleviate my own guilt at having a great life. Now it is to try to give everyone what they deserve, which is what I had.

The side-conversation on drugs was started a while ago by myself and another as a parallel to cutting.
No, you started talking about drugs to get off on an irrelevant tangent.

No, you started talking about drugs to get off on an irrelevant tangent.

Supporting non-logical, non-healthy self-inflicted injuries would often and hopefully find you on the losing side of popular opinion.

I dispute that. This is the post that spawned that tangent, and 'injuries' is wide open to interpretation. There are some who would consider smoking marijuana or using morphine in a non-medical setting 'injuries'. Hence the tangent. Hope that clarified it for you.

Whats the beef man? There is no question of okay or not, it just is.

Teenagers, have done, do now, and will act a certian way. It is not an issue of okay or not.

You can't make a teenagre grow up, as you put it, this happens naturaly over the course of time, it is called life.

Teenagers whinge, and moan, and mope, then they hit 20ish, get seriously intrested in sex, and this all stops(for the most part).

Do you really, I mean really, want to have a whine and a moan about teenagers who moan and whinge? I mean you'd have to be a teenager to want to do that, surly?

I think this is the most believable post so far.

Umm an argument against Emo-ness!

So what you are saying boils down to no more than a bunch of old grannies complaining about 'kids these days'. Hehh I find that both funny and ironic, as I suspect that the majority of those whingeing about emo kids are just teenagers with differing musical and fashion tastes.

This is also another post made of sheer win, although it's not only restricted to teenagers.

This is the post that spawned that tangent, and 'injuries' is wide open to interpretation.

No, it's not.

No, it's not.

Okay, it's not. :D

Pretty much the juvenile, self-centered, pretentious idiocy. Wearing blank glasses, for example, pisses me off. I'm sorry folks, but as a wearer of actual glasses, it's not stylish, it's not fun, it's just a nuisance, and I'm getting Lasik as soon as my eyes have finished becoming fully formed.
QFT.

The problem is the "emo movement" as it is portrayed in the mainstream began in middle to upper middle class white suburbia. Now I understand real problems, lots of people have had real problems.

But that's the point, most of these kids (and again, some of them might) have no real problems, they come from, as I said, probably the most privlidged background kids can come from. Many people in this world have suffered far far worse for far far longer, and I dare say that the good bulk of the "emo child" population have not suffered any real, true problems in their lives.

The woman I've been sorta seeing has a phd in sociology and we were talking a few days ago about similar phenominon, and we both sort of came to the conclusion that the emo lifestyle has developed over actually having no real problems. When life is hard, when it's REAL hard, you're too busy doing everything you can to stay afloat. You don't see emo in the slums of zimbabwe. You don't see emo in the hunter gatherer tribes of the amazon. You don't see emo in the streets of tibet. You don't see emo in the slums of East Hartford or Detroit.

You see emo in places where the average person is far far better off then the vast majority of this planet. When things are bad you don't expend the energy contemplating how bad they are, you don't have the time or energy to expend on anything else other than staying alive.

Which is where my distate from the whole thing comes from, the emo movement has grown into a group of priviledged youth bemoaning the "difficulties" of their priviledge upbringing, having never known a day of real, true hardship.

Now don't get me wrong, some of them have had brutal childhoods, you will find that present in ANY demographic. But the vast bulk of them? No, not really. Which is really my problem with it, it's an entire culture derived from being miserable about your lifestyle when 99% of the planet would trade places with you in an instant.

AWESOME!!! Boo-hoo my mom won't let me borrow the credit card. :mad:

Because they are generally whining, pretentious, fake little attention seekers.
^ This. Tolerance is for emos. ;)

But how do you know what they are going through? I know that a lot of people have taken on what they perceive as being emo, which is the clothes and the fake attitude, but I mean, people seem to deride any outward displays of emotion, anyone who is depressed for what they perceive as no reason, as being emo. They trash people who feel out-of-place in the world as being emo. I don't think it's really tolerant or understanding.
Outward displays of emotion are derided because they're annoying. The rest stands.

I perceive that emo kids are simply expressing their deep dissatisfaction with the world around them and with a world that is judgmental and cruel. It's pretty hard for a 14 year old kid to make changes in their life.
Not really. I, for instance, thought I was powerless when I was 14; I eventually realised that I could be in total control simply by altering my thinking. And here we are.

I think that is all emo kids are looking for in most cases. A legitimisation that they have problems too. That it's okay for them to feel sadness, and dissatisfaction with their lives.
Yes, it's ok, but it's also stupid and pointless in my opinion, and in many others. Simply because we have better things to do.

The perception however, appears to be that it's okay to be a thug at 15, but not sensitive or unhappy.
Not quite. The perception is that, if you're male, it's ok to be a thug at 15. In fact, it's all but encouraged; and I speak virtually every day to 15-year-olds who want to own guns and join the military, and are amused by violence and death, simply because those are the messages our society has been sending them.

On the other hand, females are expected to be touchy-feely, sensitive, et cetera et cetera. Not to mention sex objects. It may be different outside the United States, but I doubt that.

When I was a kid, being a "cut-up" meant being the class clown.

But how do you know what they are going through? I know that a lot of people have taken on what they perceive as being emo, which is the clothes and the fake attitude, but I mean, people seem to deride any outward displays of emotion, anyone who is depressed for what they perceive as no reason, as being emo. They trash people who feel out-of-place in the world as being emo. I don't think it's really tolerant or understanding.

Here we go again.



Emo people are not legitimately depressed. Emo is a term used to define fakes and whiners who fit a certain type of image.

If they are legitimately depressed, then they are not emo.

/wrist plz kthxbye

=)

Romantic era classical music > Emo

1) it's mainstream in the worst sense.
2) it consists of kids pretending to suffer from depression, anziety, etc.
3) the music is the worst ever made. Scream metal + Nsync = emo music.
4) Goths, punks, and rappers make a name by at least pretending to be tough. Emos make a name by pretending to be/are pussies.
5) that fucking hairstyle with the giant bang hanging off to one side.
6) goth clothing to an extent.

Here we go again.



Emo people are not legitimately depressed. Emo is a term used to define fakes and whiners who fit a certain type of image.

If they are legitimately depressed, then they are not emo.

Here we go again.

Emo is actulay no more than a genre of music, Emo kids listen to Emo music. Emo means Emotional charged rock.

That in a nutshell is it, that and no more. So if we want to look at those that listen to rap and slag tyem off for the music they listen to, or the style of cloths they wear, or the general physche of a rap fan then fine.

Ultimatly though like all teen subcultures these people will grow, ajust, and mature. Really this thread has gone on how long, about what? A genre of music and the fans that listen to it.

If people think that is enough to pile hate upon what is essentialy a kid, then fine, get on with you bunch of poor bored people.

It's the tight jeans I don't like.

I mean, and I say this in all seriousness, I fear for the quality of these kids sperm.

A lot of people criticise emos. Deride them even. I would like to know why. What is so bad about emo kids? Why are they such objects of scorn?

I've survived cancer. Have PTSD from multiple trips to combat zones. My Giants are 2-6 and don't look like they're getting any better. I have a friend who lost her husband on 9/11.. he made it to the Plaza when the building fell on him. They identified the remains on Christimas Eve.

In other words, in the real world people have real problems and deal with them with going all emo. The other night the neighbor kids gave me a PTSD attack (they were playing some violent video game while I was asleep.. the sounds of gunfire and explosions triggered me.) I spent a very bad night putting myself back together and went to work the next morning.

Emo is scorned because drama queens go off on every little thing like it is the end of the world. I'd love to see an emo kid learn he was seriously ill and had to pull himself together to fight for his life.

Before these groups are considered mainstream, they are considered underground and the scum of the earth.

The hippies were against war, fighters of freedom and peace, love and rock and roll.
The punks were anarchists, who believed in diferent politics, freedom from government and that you should do the choices you want in your life.
The rappers were against racism, discrimination and fought for an enhancement in their lifes and in civil rights.
The grunge believed that there was the need for a new type of music aimed at teenagers, that wasnt as dumb and stupid as the things being released at the time.

But the emo? They believe they have to cry for anything, that life sucks, that you shouldnt try to fix it, but cut your wrist, dress like the oposite gender, and that everything becomes better if you take extase and spend two days in a rave listening to techno junk crap.

Now, all these movements have drugs involved in it. That is ok. But at least the others have some kind of social value and are trying to acomplish anything. Emo are the crap that this fatherless and motherless generation has craped around, since kids are raised by TV and clips of Britney Spears and Cristina Aguilera.

Its so bad that Im pretty sure most emo have never had a proper role model in their lifes. That is why they are so useless and whiny.

Here we go again.

Emo is actulay no more than a genre of music, Emo kids listen to Emo music. Emo means Emotional charged rock.

That in a nutshell is it, that and no more. So if we want to look at those that listen to rap and slag tyem off for the music they listen to, or the style of cloths they wear, or the general physche of a rap fan then fine.

Ultimatly though like all teen subcultures these people will grow, ajust, and mature. Really this thread has gone on how long, about what? A genre of music and the fans that listen to it.

If people think that is enough to pile hate upon what is essentialy a kid, then fine, get on with you bunch of poor bored people.

If we are going to discuss a subculture we need to discuss how it is reflected NOW. Its roots, while of interesting cultural knowledge, are not entirely relevant to how that subgroup has evolved into what it is currently.

And what it is currently has very little to do with a style of music.

If we are going to discuss a subculture we need to discuss how it is reflected NOW. Its roots, while of interesting cultural knowledge, are not entirely relevant to how that subgroup has evolved into what it is currently.

And what it is currently has very little to do with a style of music.

What?

Naaaa man Northen Borders almost has it right.

It is no more than another teenage music scene. It being a teenage scene means that the people who are in it, suffer from all of the mental anguish that being a teenager brings.

Lets ask those that have been, but are no longer teenagers, hands up all the older folx here that would love to go back to being a teenager coz it was soooooo much fun?


None? Ummm that is what I thought. I'll say it again, all of the people hating emo kids out there are doing nowt more than putting shit on teenagers for being teenagers.

That seems ludicrus to me. So I'll ask another question, hands up those emo kid haters who are above 25?

Really, it's pile of shit about what is considered normal behaviour.

Before these groups are considered mainstream, they are considered underground and the scum of the earth.

The hippies were against war, fighters of freedom and peace, love and rock and roll.
The punks were anarchists, who believed in diferent politics, freedom from government and that you should do the choices you want in your life.
The rappers were against racism, discrimination and fought for an enhancement in their lifes and in civil rights.
The grunge believed that there was the need for a new type of music aimed at teenagers, that wasnt as dumb and stupid as the things being released at the time.

But the emo? They believe they have to cry for anything, that life sucks, that you shouldnt try to fix it, but cut your wrist, dress like the oposite gender, and that everything becomes better if you take extase and spend two days in a rave listening to techno junk crap.

Now, all these movements have drugs involved in it. That is ok. But at least the others have some kind of social value and are trying to acomplish anything. Emo are the crap that this fatherless and motherless generation has craped around, since kids are raised by TV and clips of Britney Spears and Cristina Aguilera.

Its so bad that Im pretty sure most emo have never had a proper role model in their lifes. That is why they are so useless and whiny.


How old are you? If you are below 25 years of age, then I can say thatwhat you feel is justy part of normal teen angst(you don't understand those that dress in black, they are differant from you and so you hate).

If you are above 25 then shame on you, really shame on you for forgetting what it was like being a teenager. For forgeting the emotional ups and down that every single day brought you, for forgetting that because of normal biological hormonel changes, your head was not in the right place and not due to get there untill you were a bit older.


What next, shall we discuss how much we hate little babies for shitting everywhere?

Nothing wrong with them.

Though I like to make fun of and basically aggravate them.

What?

Naaaa man Northen Borders almost has it right.

It is no more than another teenage music scene. It being a teenage scene means that the people who are in it, suffer from all of the mental anguish that being a teenager brings.

Lets ask those that have been, but are no longer teenagers, hands up all the older folx here that would love to go back to being a teenager coz it was soooooo much fun?


None? Ummm that is what I thought. I'll say it again, all of the people hating emo kids out there are doing nowt more than putting shit on teenagers for being teenagers.

That seems ludicrus to me. So I'll ask another question, hands up those emo kid haters who are above 25?

Really, it's pile of shit about what is considered normal behaviour.

Um, I'm 19. I used to be emo when I was 13-15, and a little bit into being 16.

I remember what it was like. I remember how stupid it was. I remember I had no reason to feel the way I did, and I was just being a little bitch.

I judge others by what I judge myself.

And that makes it okay? When you're 5, is crying because you dont get your way okay, just because that's what kids do? No, it's not okay. If you cry because you don't get your way, you get punished. That's what's supposed to happen.

You do things you shouldn't do, you get punished/encouraged not to do that anymore.

You can't punish teenagers for being angst filled idiots. But you sure as hell can mock them and encourage them not to be.

In order for someone to grow up, they need to be taught that what they're doing is childish and stupid. Letting teenagers be "emo" idiots is not exactly helping them grow up.

It is okay for 5 year olds to cry because that's how they're supposed to act before their parents theach them that they can't get everything they want. Later in life they will now it's not okay to cry in order to get what they want if they have responsible parents. As for mocking teenagers, I hope your kidding because that's exactly what you shouldn't do to someone who's feeling down. Noone can know what those teenagers are going through and calling their behaviour childish and stupid before you even know anything about what they've gone through is idiotic. If people threated everybody with respect I'm sure we would have a lot less of theese "emo" kids.

How old are you? If you are below 25 years of age, then I can say thatwhat you feel is justy part of normal teen angst(you don't understand those that dress in black, they are differant from you and so you hate).

If you are above 25 then shame on you, really shame on you for forgetting what it was like being a teenager. For forgeting the emotional ups and down that every single day brought you, for forgetting that because of normal biological hormonel changes, your head was not in the right place and not due to get there untill you were a bit older.


What next, shall we discuss how much we hate little babies for shitting everywhere?

I´m 23. Yes, I had crisis, but I never thought crying was going to solve anything. I still remember what being a teenager means: it completely and uterly sucks. Yes, my teen years were horrible. But I never thought about cutting my wrists or crying over it. If I felt I wanted to die, I would just do it, not whyne or try to get atention.

Now, there is another thing to consider. Do you think all teens are dumb? That all of them cant deal with their emotions? I dont think so. Some of them cope with changes in great ways, while others dont. I consider that if you do become emo, you´ve chosen (or didnt had a choice) and went for the worst possible way to deal with it.

Maybe you didnt knew what to do. Maybe you didnt had rolemodels (and they are very important). Maybe the only group at school that would acept you were the emo, and that is why you chose the uniform and became emo yourself.

Now, teen years suck? Yes, they do. But the worst thing you can do to deal with it is become emo.

Um, I'm 19. I used to be emo when I was 13-15, and a little bit into being 16.

I remember what it was like. I remember how stupid it was. I remember I had no reason to feel the way I did, and I was just being a little bitch.

I judge others by what I judge myself.

Ohhh so what you are saying is that when you where and emo kid, when your hormones where flareing and everything was unfair, it was fine to be an emo kid.

Now though that you have matured a bit, and your hormones are not in such a state, now that you mind is a bit easyer, now that you life now makes sense again. It is now okay to deride the kind of person that you used to be?

In reality you had every reason to feel the way you did. Let me get this stright so you know what I am saying. Every teenager goes through a period of headfuckedness, this though is quite normal, and we know the biological reason that it happens.

You are therefore saying two things:

The sad one being that you have forgoten the trials and tribulations you wnt through just a few years back.

The second being that you are taking the piss out of normal teenage behaviour.

If you contiune in this vein, let me offer you a bit of advice.

Don't ever have kids, coz if you can't cope with teenagers now, at the tender age of 19, then I fear for the type of upbringing and understanding you will bring to your own kids when they reach this stage of life.

Do you understand what I am telling you?

On the other hand, you are only 19, you feel a little more mature than you used to feel, perhaps it is no more than embaresment at your former thoughts and feelings that cause this? If that is the case, then that too is quite normal and I'll not deride you for feeling like it.

However you must surly understand that you did have them thoughts and feelings, and when you did they where very valid to you?

How old are you? If you are below 25 years of age, then I can say thatwhat you feel is justy part of normal teen angst(you don't understand those that dress in black, they are differant from you and so you hate).

If you are above 25 then shame on you, really shame on you for forgetting what it was like being a teenager. For forgeting the emotional ups and down that every single day brought you, for forgetting that because of normal biological hormonel changes, your head was not in the right place and not due to get there untill you were a bit older.
If that was the cause of the emo subculture, every teenager would be emo. But they arn't. It is a group of people who want to be there, who want to wear black, stupid haircuts, and write poems about their baseless angst.


What next, shall we discuss how much we hate little babies for shitting everywhere?
Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

It is okay for 5 year olds to cry because that's how they're supposed to act before their parents theach them that they can't get everything they want. Later in life they will now it's not okay to cry in order to get what they want if they have responsible parents. As for mocking teenagers, I hope your kidding because that's exactly what you shouldn't do to someone who's feeling down. Noone can know what those teenagers are going through and calling their behaviour childish and stupid before you even know anything about what they've gone through is idiotic. If people threated everybody with respect I'm sure we would have a lot less of theese "emo" kids.

Ahhhhhh thank you, the voice of reason.

If people threated everybody with respect I'm sure we would have a lot less of theese "emo" kids.
If everyone had to deal with real hardships in life there would be a lot less of these "emo" kids.

Ohhh so what you are saying is that when you where and emo kid, when your hormones where flareing and everything was unfair, it was fine to be an emo kid.

Now though that you have matured a bit, and your hormones are not in such a state, now that you mind is a bit easyer, now that you life now makes sense again. It is now okay to deride the kind of person that you used to be?

In reality you had every reason to feel the way you did. Let me get this stright so you know what I am saying. Every teenager goes through a period of headfuckedness, this though is quite normal, and we know the biological reason that it happens.

You are therefore saying two things:

The sad one being that you have forgoten the trials and tribulations you wnt through just a few years back.

The second being that you are taking the piss out of normal teenage behaviour.

If you contiune in this vein, let me offer you a bit of advice.

Don't ever have kids, coz if you can't cope with teenagers now, at the tender age of 19, then I fear for the type of upbringing and understanding you will bring to your own kids when they reach this stage of life.

Do you understand what I am telling you?

On the other hand, you are only 19, you feel a little more mature than you used to feel, perhaps it is no more than embaresment at your former thoughts and feelings that cause this? If that is the case, then that too is quite normal and I'll not deride you for feeling like it.

However you must surly understand that you did have them thoughts and feelings, and when you did they where very valid to you?

I'm quite sorry, but every teenager is not a whiny little brat as you seem to suggest. Many of us managed to be reasonably level headed as kids. One would hope by the age of 15 or 16 most of us would have matured well enough to not be ruled by biology. Frankly you're the only one here who insults the youth by saying that they just don't have any control over it.

Better that they express their angst by being emo than by going out and committing crimes like some kids do.

I love emos.

I´m 23. Yes, I had crisis, but I never thought crying was going to solve anything. I still remember what being a teenager means: it completely and uterly sucks. Yes, my teen years were horrible. But I never thought about cutting my wrists or crying over it. If I felt I wanted to die, I would just do it, not whyne or try to get atention.

Now, there is another thing to consider. Do you think all teens are dumb? That all of them cant deal with their emotions? I dont think so. Some of them cope with changes in great ways, while others dont. I consider that if you do become emo, you´ve chosen (or didnt had a choise) and went for the worst possible way to deal with it.

Maybe you didnt knew what to do. Maybe you didnt had rolemodels (and they are very important). Maybe the only group at school that would acept you were the emo, and that is why you chose the uniform and became emo yourself.

Now, teen years suck? Yes, they do. But the worst thing you can do to deal with it is become emo.


So what you think that every body is like you? Or that everybody has the same coping mechainisms as you? Or that everybody should think like you do?

Let me ask you what sort of teen was you, what sort of music did you listen to, what sort of mates did you hang with? And more importantly did you see any groups that where differant from you and your mates, that listend to differant music, that wore differant cloths, that had a differant attitude?

Really, do you actulay think that everybody is the same in this world?

As to dumb teenagres, no I don't think that at all. What I do know though is that the mind of every single teenager is not yet an adult mind. Teen years are transition years, we all have shit going on, some cope well some don't, some kill themselves, some go to shcool and shoot other people.

The message though, and I'm sure that you can see this, is that teenagers should not be derided because of the way they act, which in reality is because of a biological change, because to do so does not make their teen years easyer, nor in fact quite the opposite.

Now go on and deride teens of whatever ilk if that make you feel better or more manly, me though, I prefer to help people over that particular rough spot of life. I mean to do other wise, to pick on helpless, mindfucked kids, you gotta be right **** to do that yeah?


Are you then a right ****?

Are you then a right ****?

No, I'm a right dick.

If that was the cause of the emo subculture, every teenager would be emo. But they arn't. It is a group of people who want to be there, who want to wear black, stupid haircuts, and write poems about their baseless angst.



Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Heheh you're funny.

So list for me other teen musical scense. What you're are actulay sooo dense that you really think we are all alike?

Baseless angst? How old are you then?

I can see that you are dense enough not to have seen my baby comment as sarcasm. The message being if you want to put shit on teenagres for what IS normal teenage behviour, then shit you might as well beat your kid for shiting.

As to my wife, I beat her when she wants me to.

I can see that you are dense enough not to have seen my baby comment as sarcasm. The message being if you want to put shit on teenagres for what IS normal teenage behviour, then shit you might as well beat your kid for shiting.

And once again, the only one who disrespects teenagers here is you, for assuming that no teenager is capable of keeping his emotions in control.

I insult only those who can't do so with the full knowledge that many of them can. You insult them all by saying none of them can.

So get the hell off your soapbox.

So list for me other teen musical scense.
What?

What you're are actulay sooo dense that you really think we are all alike?
No, but that is irrelevant. You made a sweeping generalization of teenagers. I responded in kind.


Baseless angst? How old are you then?
Based on the topics of your posts, your reactions to the opposition, and other context clues... about 4-5 years older than you.

I can see that you are dense enough not to have seen my baby comment as sarcasm.
Look up logical fallacies. I used a loaded question to reply your absurd baby comment.

So what you think that every body is like you? Or that everybody has the same coping mechainisms as you? Or that everybody should think like you do?

Let me ask you what sort of teen was you, what sort of music did you listen to, what sort of mates did you hang with? And more importantly did you see any groups that where differant from you and your mates, that listend to differant music, that wore differant cloths, that had a differant attitude?

Really, do you actulay think that everybody is the same in this world?

As to dumb teenagres, no I don't think that at all. What I do know though is that the mind of every single teenager is not yet an adult mind. Teen years are transition years, we all have shit going on, some cope well some don't, some kill themselves, some go to shcool and shoot other people.

The message though, and I'm sure that you can see this, is that teenagers should not be derided because of the way they act, which in reality is because of a biological change, because to do so does not make their teen years easyer, nor in fact quite the opposite.

Now go on and deride teens of whatever ilk if that make you feel better or more manly, me though, I prefer to help people over that particular rough spot of life. I mean to do other wise, to pick on helpless, mindfucked kids, you gotta be right **** to do that yeah?


Are you then a right ****?


Shit man, it really looks like you dont understand shit about what we are talking about.

I clearly said each tenager deals with it, cope with it, in diferent ways, and that being emo is just one of them. For me, how did I cope with it? I was pretty normal, I had some friends, liked video games and computer games a lot, and I liked to party. Yes, I used to drink a lot, more than a teen should.

I remember that after school, me and my friends would go to the house of one of us, and play N64 and drink wine. Yes, we loved it. We got drunk and played N64 and Fifa Soccer. I guess that is how I coped with it.

Now, I do consider to be better than whine about the world. I never did it. I sucked a lot at soccer, something that is almost a disease if you´re brazilian, and was one of the last to be chosen when dividing teams. It sucked? Yes it did. But fortunaly my friends never cared about that, since when I played Video Games I was one of the best.

About my teenage angst, I used to research about religion. Mainly when I was a teen, I focused all my angst at the church, not at myself. I was a pure bred atheist, that was ready to get a bomb and blow some church. Now, have I ever done it? No. Fortunaly as I grew older, it just went away.

But you see, I had choices. Maybe drinking and partying isnt the best thing, but its best than being emo. There are kids who focus on their studies (just ask around about Chandelier). There are kids who focus on their looks and trying to be popular. Others focus on sports, and try to become part of the team. Myself? I used to go around with my friends, drink and play games.

Now, looking at the past, do I consider I did the right choices? Hell, I dont know. Do I look at myself back then and consider myself a completely idiot? OH yes. I was dumb and stupid kid. But I was a man. And that meant I dealt with my problems the way I could, but I never whined, cried, asked for help or felt I needed sympathy or pity.

In fact, everytime anyone has ever felt pity at me, I became quite pissed off. Pity is the worst feeling anyone can direct to you, and that is why I made sure no one ever did it to me, even if I had to make them hate me. Now, these emo kids want people to feel pity towards them. Feel sympathy. Feel that they need to be hugged and helped.

Now my friend, that is lame beyond reason. And ridiculous.

I'm quite sorry, but every teenager is not a whiny little brat as you seem to suggest. Many of us managed to be reasonably level headed as kids. One would hope by the age of 15 or 16 most of us would have matured well enough to not be ruled by biology. Frankly you're the only one here who insults the youth by saying that they just don't have any control over it.

Yeah thats not what I said though huh.

We are talking about those teenagers that become emo kids, of course there are other subcultures, and other coping mechanisims. The point I am making is essentily this, the feelings of depression, of lifes unfairness is what every teen feels.

It is not a nice point in ones life, but it does pass, and people do leave behind the teen subculture that they had. Is it then nice to pile shit on any teen for doing what ever it is that they do to cope?

We are talking about those teenagers that become emo kids, of course there are other subcultures, and other coping mechanisims. The point I am making is essentily this, the feelings of depression, of lifes unfairness is what every teen feels.

And others learn to deal with it. Those that do not lack maturity. Why should I respect immature people?

It is not a nice point in ones life, but it does pass, and people do leave behind the teen subculture that they had. Is it then nice to pile shit on any teen for doing what ever it is that they do to cope?

That's the point, it's not coping. It's reveling.

So you do admit that you insult those who have no control over their emotions?

Are you saying everyone in the Emo subculture is clinically depressed or bipolar?

And once again, the only one who disrespects teenagers here is you, for assuming that no teenager is capable of keeping his emotions in control.

I insult only those who can't do so with the full knowledge that many of them can. You insult them all by saying none of them can.

So get the hell off your soapbox.

Yeah please show me where I said that?

So you do admit that you insult those who have no control over their emotions?

So you are saying that these people are weak and should just buck their ideas up? Would you say the same about adults who suffer from depresion?

Ohhh so what you are saying is that when you where and emo kid, when your hormones where flareing and everything was unfair, it was fine to be an emo kid.

No. In fact, I said the very opposite of that - it's NOT fine to be an emo kid. It's ridiculous and stupid.

Now though that you have matured a bit, and your hormones are not in such a state, now that you mind is a bit easyer, now that you life now makes sense again. It is now okay to deride the kind of person that you used to be?

Yes. It wasn't my hormones, it was that I had a crappy childhood and couldn't deal with it. I hadn't listened to TooL, I had no perspective. I cheated on my girlfriend. I don't respect the person I used to be.

In reality you had every reason to feel the way you did. Let me get this stright so you know what I am saying. Every teenager goes through a period of headfuckedness, this though is quite normal, and we know the biological reason that it happens.

Indeed, headfuckedness happens, but to create a culture from it, knowing it's stupid? It's encouraging the type of behavior, which is idiotic.

You are therefore saying two things:

The sad one being that you have forgoten the trials and tribulations you wnt through just a few years back.

I told you I remember. It's three fucking years ago, I remember.

The second being that you are taking the piss out of normal teenage behaviour.

Taking the piss out...? I'm assuming that's akin to "talking shit about" - which I might be, I might not be. Not all teenagers are like that. Some are okay. But if you consider that "normal", then I think we need to change what's considered "normal". We need to make this kind of nonsensical behavior unacceptable. By condoning a culture that revolves around it, we're only propogating it and making it harder to get out.

If you contiune in this vein, let me offer you a bit of advice.

Don't ever have kids, coz if you can't cope with teenagers now, at the tender age of 19, then I fear for the type of upbringing and understanding you will bring to your own kids when they reach this stage of life.

Possibly. I'm not looking forward to kids at this point, but I'm only 19.

Do you understand what I am telling you?

On the other hand, you are only 19, you feel a little more mature than you used to feel, perhaps it is no more than embaresment at your former thoughts and feelings that cause this? If that is the case, then that too is quite normal and I'll not deride you for feeling like it.

Well yeah, I'm embarassed for feeling the way I did, but logically I know I was an idiot for feeling that way, as well. I could've gotten over it, but I was too content in my misery to do anything about it.

However you must surly understand that you did have them thoughts and feelings, and when you did they where very valid to you?

At the time I didn't consider whether they were valid or not. That's what emo is. It's selfish, self-involved, self-deluding "me, me, me" "why me, someone feel bad for me, someone tell me I'm doing well, I need affirmation from others yet at the same time I don't deserve it but I'm still crooning over not getting it in the first place, give it to me!" kind of attitude.

.

If everyone had to deal with real hardships in life there would be a lot less of these "emo" kids.

And what would real hardships be? People are different. Someone who experiences a problem will need much more time to recover than somebody else.

So you do admit that you insult those who have no control over their emotions?

No, I insult those who buy into a subculture that encourages that.

So you are saying that these people are weak and should just buck their ideas up?

Frankly speaking I don't believe ANYONE is TOTALLY incapable of controling their emotions. I respect those who try to. I don't respect those who do not. Those who do not try...damned right they should.

Would you say the same about adults who suffer from depresion?

That's the point. They aren't. Depression rarely just "goes away" as you grow up. Trust me, I know. I've fought depression, for YEARS. It still hangs with me. I did something about it.

If every damned emo child actually suffered from depression there'd be a whole lot more depressed adults around. Frankly speaking I don't believe that these kids ARE depressed, and for those that are, that this is a healthy coping mechanism.

Yeah, I am sure some of them have depression issues. So do some cheerleaders, and some jocks, and some valedictorians.

The emo subculture doesn't just have its own share of those with actual mental illness, it encourages the mystique of it, it encourages it, it revels in it. The majority of kids in this group, in my opinion, aren't clinically depressed, have no actual problems, and frankly speaking just need to grow the fuck up.

What?

Can you list for me any other teen music scense?



No, but that is irrelevant. You made a sweeping generalization of teenagers. I responded in kind.

Please show me that? If I did it was only that during your teenage years your homrnones are in a state of flux and this fucks your head up. Do you then deny this?



Based on the topics of your posts, your reactions to the opposition, and other context clues... about 4-5 years older than you.

So you refuse to answer that then, or you are trying to insult me?


Look up logical fallacies. I used a loaded question to reply your absurd baby comment.

Ohh straw man then!

You don't think then that picking on a teenager for being simply a teenager is like picking on a baby for being simply a baby?

And what would real hardships be? People are different. Someone who experiences a problem will need much more time to recover than somebody else.
Which has what to do with the Emo subculture?

Shit man, it really looks like you dont understand shit about what we are talking about.

I clearly said each tenager deals with it, cope with it, in diferent ways, and that being emo is just one of them. For me, how did I cope with it? I was pretty normal, I had some friends, liked video games and computer games a lot, and I liked to party. Yes, I used to drink a lot, more than a teen should.

I remember that after school, me and my friends would go to the house of one of us, and play N64 and drink wine. Yes, we loved it. We got drunk and played N64 and Fifa Soccer. I guess that is how I coped with it.

Now, I do consider to be better than whine about the world. I never did it. I sucked a lot at soccer, something that is almost a disease if you´re brazilian, and was one of the last to be chosen when dividing teams. It sucked? Yes it did. But fortunaly my friends never cared about that, since when I played Video Games I was one of the best.

About my teenage angst, I used to research about religion. Mainly when I was a teen, I focused all my angst at the church, not at myself. I was a pure bred atheist, that was ready to get a bomb and blow some church. Now, have I ever done it? No. Fortunaly as I grew older, it just went away.

But you see, I had choices. Maybe drinking and partying isnt the best thing, but its best than being emo. There are kids who focus on their studies (just ask around about Chandelier). There are kids who focus on their looks and trying to be popular. Others focus on sports, and try to become part of the team. Myself? I used to go around with my friends, drink and play games.

Now, looking at the past, do I consider I did the right choices? Hell, I dont know. Do I look at myself back then and consider myself a completely idiot? OH yes. I was dumb and stupid kid. But I was a man. And that meant I dealt with my problems the way I could, but I never whined, cried, asked for help or felt I needed sympathy or pity.

In fact, everytime anyone has ever felt pity at me, I became quite pissed off. Pity is the worst feeling anyone can direct to you, and that is why I made sure no one ever did it to me, even if I had to make them hate me. Now, these emo kids want people to feel pity towards them. Feel sympathy. Feel that they need to be hugged and helped.

Now my friend, that is lame beyond reason. And ridiculous.

Hahahahah soooo what this is with you, is you question the masculinty of emo kids? Again I say what are we all the same then? Do we all have the same coping mechanisims? How do you know what emo kids want, are you one, where you one?

Whats wrong with wanting or needing a cuddle, does it somehow un-man you? I cuddle my wife all the time, and you know, what it is not always for her benifit.

It is like saying, all black people have a chip on their shoulder.

What you have just admited, it is just bigotry, plain and simple bigotry.

Well that's fine, now I know.

Because it's an immature attitude towards suffering. Everybody suffers. The emo way to deal with is to say "omfg the world is so out to get me!!!"

The more mature thing to do is to to take responsibility for your own suffering... especially the kind that emo kids whine about. "Such and such girl doesn't like me". Boo freakin hoo.

Can you list for me any other teen music scense?
Soon as you explain what the fuck scense is.


If I did it was only that during your teenage years your homrnones are in a state of flux and this fucks your head up. Do you then deny this?

Do you deny that that is a sweeping generalization?


So you refuse to answer that then, or you are trying to insult me?

How old are you.


Ohh straw man then!
No. Loaded question. It's its own fallacy.

You don't think then that picking on a teenager for being simply a teenager is like picking on a baby for being simply a baby?
So you reassert your sweeping generalization? Ok. Why arn't all teenagers Emo then?

Hahahahah soooo what this is with you, is you question the masculinty of emo kids? Again I say what are we all the same then? Do we all have the same coping mechanisims? How do you know what emo kids want, are you one, where you one?

Whats wrong with wanting or needing a cuddle, does it somehow un-man you? I cuddle my wife all the time, and you know, what it is not always for her benifit.

It is like saying, all black people have a chip on their shoulder.

What you have just admited, it is just bigotry, plain and simple bigotry.

Well that's fine, now I know.

Ok, I´m sure your wife gets a kick when you ask her to lick her feet.

Btw, never needed a cuddle. I feel better after having sex.

Hell, I had never figured it out, but it looks like my coping mechanism is sex, not hugs. I guess that makes me a man.

Soon as you explain what the fuck scense is.



I think its scenes. Like you know, punks, rappers, skatters, surfers etc.

And others learn to deal with it. Those that do not lack maturity. Why should I respect immature people?

You are right, in the fullness of time, mostly everybody learns to deal with it.

Teenagers are imature, that is why they are not called adults. You are born, a baby, you grow to a child, then a pre-teen, then a teen, then post teen, and eventualy an adult.

Are you saying that you cannot respect anybody but an adult.



That's the point, it's not coping. It's reveling.

And? So what? The point I'm making is it is normal teen behviour. The point is are you derideing normal human behaviuor?

A post-teen? You are just making classifications the fuck up now.

You are right, in the fullness of time, mostly everybody learns to deal with it.

Teenagers are imature, that is why they are not called adults. You are born, a baby, you grow to a child, then a pre-teen, then a teen, then post teen, and eventualy an adult.

Are you saying that you cannot respect anybody but an adult.

I am saying I cannot respect anybody who doesn't put in effort. A teenager, while not fully an adult, is typically more capable than you give them credit for. You're the insulting one here, not me.


And? So what? The point I'm making is it is normal teen behviour. The point is are you derideing normal human behaviuor?

The point I am making is that it is not normal teen behavior. Given what many teenagers through history have been through, and are going through right now, the idea that this is in any way a normal and typical coping mechanism is crap.

Teenagers are a lot stronger than you give them credit for, and are capable of controling themselves a lot more than you seem to think. Those that take on this subculture make no effort to.

that is why I am derisive of them. Not that they're normal. Far from it, I have far more respect for teenagers in general than you do. I actually believe them capable of controling themselves, that they're not just balls of hormones and confusion with no emotional balance or fortitude. I believe they ARE capable of being better, and those that live this lifestyle aren't trying.

That's why I disrespect them, because it's not only immature, but it's intentionally so.

Why the hell should i respect that? I think better of teenagers than that.

are born, a baby, you grow to a child, then a pre-teen, then a teen, then post teen, and eventualy an adult.

A "post teen" is 20 years old. A twenty year old isn't an adult?

I was a senior at Yale when I was 20 years old.

You are right, in the fullness of time, mostly everybody learns to deal with it.

Teenagers are imature, that is why they are not called adults. You are born, a baby, you grow to a child, then a pre-teen, then a teen, then post teen, and eventualy an adult.

Are you saying that you cannot respect anybody but an adult.




And? So what? The point I'm making is it is normal teen behviour. The point is are you derideing normal human behaviuor?

Ok, so you´re telling emo is normal teenage behavior, and you think that its in their best interest that you, a full grown man with a wife, to offer them some kind of love in the way of hugs and pity.

Now, you are also telling us that they should just be allowed to be emo, because that is normal. You are also telling us that we shouldnt try to help them, only give them sympathy and love.

So, you´re telling us that teenagers all go through some deep shit, and that no matter what they do, we should only offer sympathy, nothing else, because they cant deal with their own feelings.

And we arent suposed to say their behavior is bad, because its what they can do.

We arent suposed to tell them they are wrong, arent supose to help them cope with it in a diferent way, besides with hugs and understanding.

Sorry dude, but you sound like a pedo.

Now, as adults, we are suposed to help these kids. Yes, help them, not abuse them. And I do think the first thing we can do is tell these kids how stupid they are. Then, we help them by providing alternatives. And that comes through sports, work and studying.

But no, you´re just telling us to let them be, and do nothing or say anything about it, because that is the "nature way", even though the emo movement doesnt even have 10 years.

So please man, stop trying to argue about this subject, that not only makes you looks very suspiscious, but also very stupid.

Are you saying everyone in the Emo subculture is clinically depressed or bipolar?

No I am saying that they are suffering from the normal ups and downs of teen life. Teen angst, me I dealt with it with lots of drininking, fighting and shaging, and riding around on bikes. Some deal with it by takeing a bath everyday, wearing good cloths and spending all their money on trainers and hair products, some deal with it by complianing an whinging that it is unfair.

The point being, again, that it is all quite normal.

I mean ya might as well slag off all those that have blonde hair, it makes as much sense.

In reality all of this, all of this bickering, and putting down stems from nothing more than the old being scared of what is differant, or what you can't understand. And ytou what that is the most truely sikening thing about it.

My defense of emo kids stems not from a love of them, nor even from an understanding of where they are at, but from a standpoint of of being fucking fed up with pepole just plain hating what ever it is that they don't get.

Okay I can see that lots of you don't get the whole emo thing, but realy it's just normal, for differant subcultures to exist.

What you doing IS no differant than slagging of say black culture, or hispanic culture, or christian, or pagan, or whatever.

We are all differant you know, and pileing shit upon those who are so differant that you can't understand them, does that foster understanding, or does it bring ultimatly violence?

No, I insult those who buy into a subculture that encourages that.[QUOTE=Arthais101;12537652]

So you have lived in it and know what it is all about?


[QUOTE=Arthais101;12537652]
Frankly speaking I don't believe ANYONE is TOTALLY incapable of controling their emotions. I respect those who try to. I don't respect those who do not. Those who do not try...damned right they should.[QUOTE=Arthais101;12537652]

Then frankly speaking you are wrong, what are you saying there is no such thing as mental illness? Say you're not a scientologist are you?



That's the point. They aren't. Depression rarely just "goes away" as you grow up. Trust me, I know. I've fought depression, for YEARS. It still hangs with me. I did something about it.

If every damned emo child actually suffered from depression there'd be a whole lot more depressed adults around. Frankly speaking I don't believe that these kids ARE depressed, and for those that are, that this is a healthy coping mechanism.

Yeah, I am sure some of them have depression issues. So do some cheerleaders, and some jocks, and some valedictorians.

The emo subculture doesn't just have its own share of those with actual mental illness, it encourages the mystique of it, it encourages it, it revels in it. The majority of kids in this group, in my opinion, aren't clinically depressed, have no actual problems, and frankly speaking just need to grow the fuck up.

So you are an emo expert then?

What you doing IS no differant than slagging of say black culture, or hispanic culture, or christian, or pagan, or whatever.


Dude, I recomend you think about the subject before typing it. You´re crossing into deep shit territory, and you will probabily be the one who gets flamed and burned.

This debate has absolutely nothing to do with black, hispanic, christian or any other group alltogether.

Because it's an immature attitude towards suffering. Everybody suffers. The emo way to deal with is to say "omfg the world is so out to get me!!!"

The more mature thing to do is to to take responsibility for your own suffering... especially the kind that emo kids whine about. "Such and such girl doesn't like me". Boo freakin hoo.

But they are only kids! They are teenagers with no real understanding of the worls, and they do and will grow out of it. Are you then taking the piss out of teenagers for being teenagers?

What you doing IS no differant than slagging of say black culture, or hispanic culture, or christian, or pagan, or whatever.
Wrong. Mostly. The black gang pop-culture is just as bad as Emo.
The rest are not remotely the same. The Emo subculture is a bunch of angsty kids or kids trying to be angsty while wearing a fairly defined uniform and conforming to a number of standard intricacies. They might as well be the army. Societal cultures are not the same thing.

We are all differant you know, and pileing shit upon those who are so differant that you can't understand them, does that foster understanding, or does it bring ultimatly violence?
Ok, Cpt Emo, get over it.

It's a crappy corporate construct of a counter-culture and i cant contain my criticism. Their forgettable fashion forged from former fads we fast forgot. They aspire to attain an admirable appearance in the adoring eyes of any asshole around. Emo's musical content is minimal and meaningless, it mesmerises me in how mind-meltingly malicious it sounds, maybe because music is micromanaged by middleage men.

Haha stoned alliteration is fun. Seriously. Emo sucks. Jesus christ, the selfindulgent wankerishness of the emo scene shines above all others. What a horrible corporate-sold idea of individuality.

Stupid fashion and bad, washed-out and commercialised music (except for the early stuff like Moss Icon, etc.) Apart from that I don't really care and I find that things incessantly being labelled "emo" irritates me more often than not.

A lot of people criticise emos. Deride them even. I would like to know why. What is so bad about emo kids? Why are they such objects of scorn?

Some people refuse to accept the bad things in life. Emos refuse to accept the good things. That's what's so fucking annoying.

I have far less time for those people who did suffer abuse in their childhood who now use it as an excuse for everything they do wrong. "I do drugs because of my shitty childhood." "I drink because my father beat the shit out of me." "I overeat because I was molested." "I start fights because I watched my mum get the shit beaten out of her when I was a kid." "I deal drugs because my parents were drug addicts." No sorry, you do those things out of personal choice. Learn some self-control and take control of your life.

Not to put tooooo fine a point on it, but seeing as you seem to have barely managed to cope with the trauma of not actually having anything traumatic happen to you you do not strike me as the sort of person who would come out of a decade or so of abuse less damaged than average.

I wouldn't go patting youself on the back too much.

Because emo people are annoying about it (Feel bad for 'cuz im emo!!!) and think that they're so much more depressed than the rest of us are.....

A lot of people criticise emos. Deride them even. I would like to know why. What is so bad about emo kids? Why are they such objects of scorn?

It's not just emos per se...it's kids caught up in the emotional maelstrom of teenagehood that simply haven't developed the capacity to look outside themselves that most people don't have time for. You see....we went through it too, and we don't want to relive it vicariously. That whole 'no one understands me' bit...well, truth be told, we do. But nothing we do is going to change the refusal to see that...so...meh.

I don't deride, though I may occasionally laugh and point if someone gets out of hand and starts ranting in their emo fashion.

Because people like to bitch about other people bitching, apparently...

At this point no amount of bitching from Emo kids can equal the amount of bitching the anti-Emo crowd gets on with. Fuckin' get over it, guys...seriously, it's more than a little sad.

The problem is the "emo movement" as it is portrayed in the mainstream began in middle to upper middle class white suburbia. Now I understand real problems, lots of people have had real problems.

probably the most privlidged background kids can come from.

priviledge upbringing



I find it rather annoying when people say "privileged", mainly because it isn't like that. My grandparents and parents worked/work their respective asses off to get/keep my family in the financial and otherwise position that we are in today. That location would probably be considered middle class, though with today's abundance of wealthy or seemingly wealthy middle class, I would probably be on the lower rung of such a tier.

However, I do agree with you that a large amount of 'emo' individuals have no real cause to be like that, other than because of the 'style'. What irks me most about the whole 'emo' group is the poetry that they write. No doubt some people find it good and..emotionally cleansing or something, but I find it all free-verse and about either suicide, relationship issues, death, pain, life sucking, death, hating the world, and death. What is worse is how some people look at that type of writing and state 'Oh, its so deep and thought provoking.' It really isn't, we all experience such things throughout our lives, and simply because something is about the great finality or is depressing does not make it 'deep'. This shows a bit about the whiny attitude that certain 'emo' individuals take, probably for attention.

No doubt there are actually 'legitimately'(because I do not know what level of suffering makes something legitimate, and to each their own pains are the worst ones) 'emo' people out there, but the majority that I see are either trying to make some sort of rebellious statement like many other 'countercultures' (not sure if it would be considered that), or they just got tired of life.

Of course, we all know anecdotal evidence is useless.

But I was a man.
This is where I stopped reading. A subsequent skim confirmed my suspicions:
I never whined, cried, asked for help or felt I needed sympathy or pity.
"Real men don't ask for help" is an idea that is not only ignorant, but harmful. It implies that it is unacceptable for men to have emotions or flaws (the two are usually equated), and likely a big part of the reason many legitimately depressed male people never seek treatment, and thus end up labeled 'emo'.

As I have no idea what the subculture actually is, I will refrain from further comment; I just felt the need to point that out.

-- Envoy of the Nova.

I think its scenes. Like you know, punks, rappers, skatters, surfers etc.

Ewww, skatters...

[QUOTE=Arthais101;12537652]No, I insult those who buy into a subculture that encourages that.[QUOTE=Arthais101;12537652]

So you have lived in it and know what it is all about?


[QUOTE=Arthais101;12537652]
Frankly speaking I don't believe ANYONE is TOTALLY incapable of controling their emotions. I respect those who try to. I don't respect those who do not. Those who do not try...damned right they should.

So you are an emo expert then?

Uh, regardless of if he is, -I- am, and you disregard me and my experience and opinion.

So then, this isn't the thread to tell some hilarious emo jokes?

So then, this isn't the thread to tell some hilarious emo jokes?Despite my best efforts to steer it that way in the second post it seems to have turned into a patheticly serious discussion...

So then, this isn't the thread to tell some hilarious emo jokes?

Course it is!

Because people like to bitch about other people bitching, apparently...

At this point no amount of bitching from Emo kids can equal the amount of bitching the anti-Emo crowd gets on with. Fuckin' get over it, guys...seriously, it's more than a little sad.

LOL, indeed.

A lot of people criticise emos. Deride them even. I would like to know why. What is so bad about emo kids? Why are they such objects of scorn?

For me, it was the whole emo music scene which claimed to have some kind of monopoly on "emotional" music. Like everything else was created by robots. A kind of elitist snobbishness.

But then it became a "lifestyle" instead of a style of music, and hating that lifestyle became the new trend - that is, "emo" become nothing but a scapegoat generalization for people of OTHER stupid high school cliques to hate on.

On the internet, hating emo is like sucking Chuck Norris's balls. It's done so much it makes me want to vomit in someone else's mouth.

Because people like to bitch about other people bitching, apparently...

At this point no amount of bitching from Emo kids can equal the amount of bitching the anti-Emo crowd gets on with. Fuckin' get over it, guys...seriously, it's more than a little sad.

Bitching about people bitching about bitches is pretty bitchy.

Bitching about people bitching about bitches is pretty bitchy.

You've been scoring <3 from me constantly today.

You've been scoring <3 from me constantly today.

I've been scoring more than just <3 from many people. ;)

I've been scoring more than just <3 from many people. ;)

Crack? You've been scoring crack? It's crack, right?

Crack? You've been scoring crack? It's crack, right?

Crack is too addictive. I prefer Heroine laced with caffeine and nicotine.

Crack is too addictive. I prefer Heroine laced with caffeine and nicotine.

I wish I knew the name of the type of Heroin that Vince bought in Pulp Fiction so I could make a proper reference to that shit.

I wish I knew the name of the type of Heroin that Vince bought in Pulp Fiction so I could make a proper reference to that shit.

"Now this one is Chago, from the Hertz mountains in Germany. Five hundred dollars more, but when you shoot it, you'll know where that extra money went. There's nothing wrong with the other two; I mean these are really good shit, but this one is a fucking madman."

Something like that :)

My main problem with Emos is not the style of dress or the music, but instead the personality type and the rampant amount of complaining they do about seemingly nothing.

Now, I've had a shitty life, not "privileged" in any way, and barely scrap to get by most of the time, and have a chronic depressive disorder.

And yet, I don't complain as much as some "emos" do, nor as much as the rich pricks do.

The reason? Quite simply, as bad as my life has been, it could have been worse, and there are people FAR worse off than I could ever be.

I have met people who were raped as children, beaten as children, and starved as children. And these people complain far less than emos and some other people, whose problems are petty compared to others. At the very least, I was not beaten, raped, or starved. My father went hungry on many occasions so I didn't have to, he sacrificed a great deal so I didn't suffer. As do most people's parents. This alone keeps me from complaining: There are people out there who for all purposes SHOULD be the ones complaining, and they don't. I have no place in complaining over my seemingly little problems, in retrospect.

That said, I don't care if a person dresses "emo", listens to "emo" music, whatever not my thing. It's the "Woe is me" types that annoy me. And there are emos out there that aren't like that, of course.

"Now this one is Chago, from the Hertz mountains in Germany. Five hundred dollars more, but when you shoot it, you'll know where that extra money went. There's nothing wrong with the other two; I mean these are really good shit, but this one is a fucking madman."

Something like that :)

Scoring more <3 for sigging me, and for getting the quote right.

Yay, emo jokes!

What do you get when you cross a pizza with an Emo kid?
A pizza that cuts itself.

How many Emo kids does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
None. They'd rather sit in the dark & cry.

If a blonde and an emo kid jump off a building and hit the ground at the same time, who dies first?
The blonde, she drowns in the emo kid's tears.


What's the difference between an Emo kid and a baby?
The baby doesn't cry.

What do you call an emo kid outside the mall?
Anything he'll cry no matter what you do.

If my lawn was emo, it could cut and water itself.

Emo Drywall Company. The fastest drywall company in town! Why? Because our drywall cuts and hangs itself!

What do you call an Emo kid with no arms and no legs?

An over achiever.

http://x09.xanga.com/c82d937350c3047432991/b11266362.jpg

Tickle me Emo! (http://emuse.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/7199)

Emo Cereal: The only cereal that understands you (http://emuse.ebaumsworld.com/watch/14892)

Emo World (http://emuse.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/17941)

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/emo-42710.jpg

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/emo-57672.jpg

http://www.313merch.com/tshirt_pics/emo_gay.jpg

http://data1.blog.de/user/x/xxelmoxx/p4da9461c7d.jpg

http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/fs8/300W/i/2005/351/0/c/become_EMO__by_BellZ.jpg

A lot of people criticise emos. Deride them even. I would like to know why. What is so bad about emo kids? Why are they such objects of scorn?

Most of the seriously emo people I know act as though the world exists solely to cater to their needs. The whole "no one understands me" bit is, to me, just whitewashing the fact that the majority of people do not and will not care about them.

And emo kids are easy targets.

Oh come on:rolleyes:
The little bastards thrive on scorn and abuse:p

Emo jokes OMG!1!1 STFU adn let us be hwo we r!1!1

Most of the seriously emo people I know act as though the world exists solely to cater to their needs. The whole "no one understands me" bit is, to me, just whitewashing the fact that the majority of people do not and will not care about them.

And emo kids are easy targets.

Should I tell them the truth?

"It's not that nobody cares about you, it's that nobody cares about anybody. The world isn't against you specifically, against everyone completely."

Now you're being as bad as an emo kid. Sophomore cynicism is far from 'The Truth.":p

Now you're being as bad as an emo kid. Sophomore cynicism is far from 'The Truth.":p

Oh come now. There is a difference. Acknowledging the world sucks ass, and realize it works against you, and work the uphill battle, or sit in the trenches and give up before the battle even starts.

Swim the rapids, or down the waterfall.

Suck it up, or give it up.

That kind thing.

I must be emo. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=XEJDGLF-e18)

And in the words of Dr. Denis Leary: "Life sucks. Get a helmet."

I must be emo. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=XEJDGLF-e18)

And in the words of Dr. Denis Leary: "Life sucks. Get a helmet."

Gotta say - I like something about the way Emo girls do their makeup.

Gotta say - I like something about the way Emo girls do their makeup.

how can you tell they're a girl as opposed to a guy? They both wear the same clothes and do their makeup the same way.

how can you tell they're a girl as opposed to a guy? They both wear the same clothes and do their makeup the same way.

Face and eye shape is normally a good hint.

As is the presence of boobies.

And curves.

Emo apparently started out as an offensive term for people who listen to "Emotive Hardcore" music. It's now evolved into a name for whiny kids to call themselves. I have no problem with people wanting to go against the mainstream because that's genuinely what they feel personally comfortable with. However, it's become so cool to be "Non-Conformist", that "Non-Conformism" has actually become conformism. Take, for example, guys wearing girls pants. Once upon a time, that was a way to stand out. But now, it's just a staple of high school life. Same goes for dying your hair, wearing giant headphones, or listening to "emo" bands. I know people who really honestly do march to the beat of different drummers, and they are great people. But there are so many kids now who are forcing themselves to look a certain way, and trying desperately to feel lonely, depressed, and isolated, just because that's what is cool. It's like you get bonus points for being bi-polar, or something. That ends up being an insult for people who really are clinically depressed, because it boils how they feel down into some sort of fad. Sometimes I just want to smack kids and say, "Hey! It's okay to be happy some of the time! It doesn't make you a loser to have fun!"

NB: I do admit to jokingly calling myself "emo" on days when I'm feeling blue, but I'll have you know I am wearing a pink shirt today, and quite enjoy many happy pursuits of life, like running and baking bread.

Face and eye shape is normally a good hint.

As is the presence of boobies.

And curves.

Girl clothes can make a guy look pretty girly.

What is all this fuss about Elmo. Elmo is harmless The furry, red, little monster brings joy to millions of children and... ohhhh Emos. Nevermind.
(My apologies to Gilda Radner)

My main problem with Emos is not the style of dress or the music, but instead the personality type and the rampant amount of complaining they do about seemingly nothing.

Now, I've had a shitty life, not "privileged" in any way, and barely scrap to get by most of the time, and have a chronic depressive disorder.

And yet, I don't complain as much as some "emos" do, nor as much as the rich pricks do.

The reason? Quite simply, as bad as my life has been, it could have been worse, and there are people FAR worse off than I could ever be.

I have met people who were raped as children, beaten as children, and starved as children. And these people complain far less than emos and some other people, whose problems are petty compared to others. At the very least, I was not beaten, raped, or starved. My father went hungry on many occasions so I didn't have to, he sacrificed a great deal so I didn't suffer. As do most people's parents. This alone keeps me from complaining: There are people out there who for all purposes SHOULD be the ones complaining, and they don't. I have no place in complaining over my seemingly little problems, in retrospect.

That said, I don't care if a person dresses "emo", listens to "emo" music, whatever not my thing. It's the "Woe is me" types that annoy me. And there are emos out there that aren't like that, of course.

Get over it. Quite simply, whilst I empathise with your situation, and laud your "manly strength", has it ever occurred to you that pain is not singulalrly material or physical? Countless "emo kids" do have genuine emotional issues that can equal what passes for poverty in the west in pain, and whilst there are posers, does the perpetual abuse do anything to help?

Girl clothes can make a guy look pretty girly.

I don't know how to explain it.

Maybe some people just can't tell girls from boys unless one group has long hair and wears pink. There's al sorts in the world so it wouldn't surprise me.

Get over it. Quite simply, whilst I empathise with your situation, and laud your "manly strength", has it ever occurred to you that pain is not singulalrly material or physical? Countless "emo kids" do have genuine emotional issues that can equal what passes for poverty in the west in pain, and whilst there are posers, does the perpetual abuse do anything to help?

Fuck them. If they want sympathy, they wont get it from me. Why? Because as our friends have said, they dont deserve it.

A lot of people criticise emos. Deride them even. I would like to know why. What is so bad about emo kids? Why are they such objects of scorn?

To paraphrase Bill Burroughs, "Just - about - everything". Having had (or so I thought) no experience of this 'Emo' thingy, I decided I'd give the genre the benefit of the doubt and used my Yahoo Launchcast player to listen to a pre-programmed 'Emo' station. To my surprise each and every song that came up in my player had already been stricken by yours truly, from my own personal station's playlists. I'd given them all the red 'X' of death at one time or another as they bubbled up through the 'suggested' or 'popular' listings because - they all SUCKED. I'd written it all off as total crap, but I'd had no idea that all of this crap was considered, on the whole, to be a 'genre' by anyone.

As far as the 'Emo kids' go, well, if that's what they're listening to, then I have no difficulty at all in saying that a big part of what's 'wrong' with them is that they're listening to tasteless crap.

Get over it. Quite simply, whilst I empathise with your situation, and laud your "manly strength", has it ever occurred to you that pain is not singulalrly material or physical? Countless "emo kids" do have genuine emotional issues that can equal what passes for poverty in the west in pain, and whilst there are posers, does the perpetual abuse do anything to help?

1. I am not saying I am more "manly" than anyone else. I have just as much contempt for those so obsessed with being "manly".

2. Pain can be emotional. I have a chronic depressive problem, and emotionally unstable. I would not wish what I feel every day of my life on my worst enemy. This is largely the reason why I am easily offended by the Emo poser, whom try to conform to the emo-style.

3. I'm talking about emo kids who complain about "nobody understands me", or "my parents won't let me do this, I'm so depressed" types. And I have met them before. Also, I have some very good friends that are emos, that aren't like that. The difference: The ones that complain about worthless shit are the posers; the ones that like that particular style(Not the whining part-Whining is not necessarily indicative of being an Emo) are rather quite nice to be around.

4. I have no hatred for any group of people. Only individuals. If a person is an emo, whoop-dee-doo-da-day, I don't give a rat's ass. Not my style, really, but it's their's. The second they start whining about worthless shite(Whining is different than complaining-Whining is more of "Woe is me for my dad won't pay for my cell phone" types; sadly, I have met them), I lose a great deal of respect.