NationStates Jolt Archive

Moveon.org is holding a Town Hall debate on Iraq between the different Democratic Presidential hopefulls. You can listen to it if you go to their website. You do need to have an American Zip Code, so those of you who don't will just have to do without. This is only the second time there has been a "discussion" (that's code for "Not quite a debate"), and it's on an issue we all care about strongly.

I wouldn't log in quite yet, as they're still playing this truly annoying little ditty as filler music. It should start soon, though.

Who's participating?

cant interested non residents just use "90210"?

Ash, I'm sure they can do that.

Obama, Clinton, Edwards, Biden, Kucinich, Dodd, and Richardson.

Edit: And they've started.

If you for some inexplicable reason don't know your zip code, this might help (http://maps.huge.info/zip.htm) ;)

May as well use this to discuss for those of us listening. Does anyone else think that Edwards was being a bit over-confident about his ability to absolutely stop war profiteering?

Primarily I think he has too much confidence in his intentions. He too relies on corporate funding.

Primarily I think he has too much confidence in his intentions. He too relies on corporate funding.

Yeah. Edwards has always bothered me in that he seems to say one thing, but do another.

Now Biden: the remark that it is Divorce or Marriage, or Education that is causing the Iraqi Civil War seems just stupid to me.

Anyone else find the photo of Biden sitting at the fireplace hilarious?

Anyone else find the photo of Biden sitting at the fireplace hilarious?

Mine is still showing me Edwards, so I guess I'm lagging something awful. Kucinich is up now. Should be funny, if nothing else.

Mine is still showing me Edwards, so I guess I'm lagging something awful. Kucinich is up now. Should be funny, if nothing else.

He (Kucinich) seems a little too "out there" for me.

Sorry, missed both (making tea), but the marriage thing made the wife laugh.

He (Kucinich) seems a little too "out there" for me.

Yup. I tend to agree with Kos of Daily Kos on the issue of Dennis Kucinich. "Ugh"

Yup. I tend to agree with Kos of Daily Kos on the issue of Dennis Kucinich. "Ugh"

I like his universal healthcare stance, but not the Department of Peace b.s.

I like his universal healthcare stance, but not the Department of Peace b.s.

He talks big, but really, he's living in a fantasy, in my opinion.

He talks big, but really, he's living in a fantasy, in my opinion.I'll agree he strokes his own ego like mad. Can almost hear the *FapFapFap* all the way to Northern Europe.. But apart from the fact that Americans loves war, don't know what foreign policy not enforced with genocide is, and thinks it's wholly unreasonable that other nations might want a say in how the US runs them.. What makes you say he's living in a fantasy world?

EDIT: Bill Richardson wants the Turks to help stabilize an Iraqi coalition government with Kurds in it?

Shiiite...

He talks big, but really, he's living in a fantasy, in my opinion.

I like his internationalism, but he's always vague and constantly prides himself on not funding the troops.

Baby steps work better than revolution IMHO.

I'll agree he strokes his own ego like mad. Can almost hear the *FapFapFap* all the way to Northern Europe.. But apart from the fact that Americans loves war, don't know what foreign policy not enforced with genocide is, and thinks it's wholly unreasonable that other nations might want a say in how the US runs them.. What makes you say he's living in a fantasy world?

His whole Department of Peace thing. The belief that we really can simply wish war away is so silly and pretentious that it makes a joke of Kucinich.

His whole Department of Peace thing. The belief that we really can simply wish war away is so silly and pretentious that it makes a joke of Kucinich.Apart from yourself, who prevents you from not attacking/sponsoring attacks on foreign sovereign states?

Richardson wants to challenge Bush on the WPA up to the Supreme Court, where he claims it will be 50/50.

They would be screwed if they tried SCOTUS.

Apart from yourself, who prevents you from not attacking/sponsoring attacks on foreign sovereign states?

And what stops them from attacking us or others who we are obligated by international law to defend?

Richardson wants to challenge Bush on the WPA up to the Supreme Court, where he claims it will be 50/50.

They would be screwed if they tried SCOTUS.

Richardson also wants to solve the problem in Iraq by putting all three sects in a room and have them talk it out. Heh.

And what stops them from attacking us or others who we are obligated by international law to defend?Do you really believe anyone is trying to attack you or anyone you're obliged to defend (apart from yourself, in a sense)?

Richardson also wants to solve the problem in Iraq by putting all three sects in a room and have them talk it out. Heh.

When he said that I immediately thought of the three duking it out in a conference room with US military standing outside whistling. :p

I guess they're coming back at 10 after 8?

Is Obama in this? I can't listen to it atm, and he's really the only candidate I'm interested in hearing.

Is Obama in this? I can't listen to it atm, and he's really the only candidate I'm interested in hearing.

He's up after Hilary and Edwards. They return in a few minutes.

Is Obama in this? I can't listen to it atm, and he's really the only candidate I'm interested in hearing.

Obama is last, but he will be there. We've got less than five minutes of intermission left, and then, I beleive, it is Clinton, Dodd, and Obama.

Richardson also wants to solve the problem in Iraq by putting all three sects in a room and have them talk it out. Heh.

When he said that I immediately thought of the three duking it out in a conference room with US military standing outside whistling. :p

youve never heard of diplomacy?

i know its been a while since the US has bothered with it, but thats the way it works. you bring the factions together and start talking.

Hilary speaks.

youve never heard of diplomacy?

i know its been a while since the US has bothered with it, but thats the way it works. you bring the factions together and start talking.

Ash, this particular war has been going on for the last millenia. What will putting them in a room to argue do, when they all beleive that they only stand to gain from fighting? Moreover, who do we go to? There is no central leadership in an insurgency, or in a group of neighborhood-based millitias.

Hilary speaks.

And she says...?

Hillary: I will end this war, if this President will not.

Except for the troops I said I'd leave until 2009 or later.

Ash, this particular war has been going on for the last millenia. What will putting them in a room to argue do, when they all beleive that they only stand to gain from fighting? Moreover, who do we go to? There is no central leadership in an insurgency, or in a group of neighborhood-based millitias.

it doesnt matter, its the ONLY way to do it. how else do you have peace? let them fight it out like the former yugoslavia until its so awful that we have to go back in?

it doesnt matter, its the ONLY way to do it. how else do you have peace? let them fight it out like the former yugoslavia until its so awful that we have to go back in?

Bring Iran, Syria, Saudia Arabia, and others in, and really try to build an international consensus?

The ONLY way to do it? If by "do it" you mean "Do nothing" I suppose.

Edit: Who voted for Obama? He hasn't even gone yet.

And she says...?

Dunno. I was on the phone. Sorry.

She has an online petition to challenge the President not to veto.

Dodd lists all possible resources, except Nuclear power. Pity, he was impressing me.

Obama-rama is up.

Sorry for the Double Post:

Obama is up now. Did anyone catch that picture of Dodd? "I'm a-chargin my campaigner" IMO.

Obama takes a shot at McCain to open.

Holy shit, Obama used Reagan to back up his point.

Holy shit, Obama used Reagan to back up his point.Actually he implied even Reagan wasn't as fucked up as the neoCons.

Isn't that some sort of Goodwin?

3rd one is the hardest punch thrown yet. Obama answers correctly. We can't take all funding away, but we should try to build a veto-proof majority. If it fails, send another bill with constraints. If we can't get that through, fund him every 3 to 4 months, and make him fight for each veto. Keep the pressure on.

3rd one is the hardest punch thrown yet. Obama answers correctly. We can't take all funding away, but we should try to build a veto-proof majority. If it fails, send another bill with constraints. If we can't get that through, fund him every 3 to 4 months, and make him fight for each veto. Keep the pressure on.

He just won me over even more. I hated the thought of stripping the troops of funding to make a statement. When Obama talked about the shorter leash until we can get the 67 votes, it was the best thing I've heard in a while on the subject.

3rd one is the hardest punch thrown yet. Obama answers correctly. We can't take all funding away, but we should try to build a veto-proof majority. If it fails, send another bill with constraints. If we can't get that through, fund him every 3 to 4 months, and make him fight for each veto. Keep the pressure on.

now that is an excellent plan. the support for the war is dropping in congress. keeping it in the forefront by having almost continual votes might just be more than the republicans can take. all those votes to stay in iraq on their record.

Bring Iran, Syria, Saudia Arabia, and others in, and really try to build an international consensus?

The ONLY way to do it? If by "do it" you mean "Do nothing" I suppose.

Edit: Who voted for Obama? He hasn't even gone yet.

how else? you cant impose a solution from above. it wont work. it has to come from the iraqis themselves. if they get support from their neighbors, all the better.

how else do you think it can be done?

now that is an excellent plan. the support for the war is dropping in congress. keeping it in the forefront by having almost continual votes might just be more than the republicans can take. all those votes to stay in iraq on their record.

That, and short funding periods forces voting and prevents filibustering. No more debates on whether they should debate Iraq. :rolleyes:

how else? you cant impose a solution from above. it wont work. it has to come from the iraqis themselves. if they get support from their neighbors, all the better.

how else do you think it can be done?

I don't think that there is one. I think that it is a holy war that's been going on for a millenia, that each group is, at the moment, convinced that it only stands to gain from the fighting, and that we are the last group to try and bring the issue to a head.

To be honest, the only person who has even come close to ending the fighting was executed at the turn of the year, and he did it by opressing them all.

It is a fallacy to say, "Nothing else works, so this must", which is how I read what you have been saying.

I don't think that there is one. I think that it is a holy war that's been going on for a millenia, that each group is, at the moment, convinced that it only stands to gain from the fighting, and that we are the last group to try and bring the issue to a head.

To be honest, the only person who has even come close to ending the fighting was executed at the turn of the year, and he did it by opressing them all.

It is a fallacy to say, "Nothing else works, so this must", which is how I read what you have been saying.

no im not saying that. im saying that diplomacy has a good track record. if its done right, it can work. george bush couldnt do it but bill richardson probably could. hillary clinton probably could. barrack obama probably could.

thanks for posting this, i never would have known about it and probably wouldnt have tried it. even with my pathetic bandwidth i was able to listen.

no im not saying that. im saying that diplomacy has a good track record. if its done right, it can work. george bush couldnt do it but bill richardson probably could. hillary clinton probably could. barrack obama probably could.

I don't deny that it is worth trying, I just think that having more than trick up your sleeve is a good idea, and that Richardson only named one card, and that the card he named is one that may have little hope.

thanks for posting this, i never would have known about it and probably wouldnt have tried it. even with my pathetic bandwidth i was able to listen.

No prob. If there was anything you missed, apparently there will be video up at 11 PM EST.

cant interested non residents just use "90210"?

actually yeah...

it worked for me