NationStates Jolt Archive

i know people who dont belive in it

Heheh I had a person here once start to take the piss out of my bad speiling, and when I told then I suffered form dyslexcia he asked me if I was sure, and isn't that made up think as he knows a lot of young lazy American kids use ot as an excuse. Heh I said yeah I'm fuckin sure as I have suffeed from it for all of my 40 British years!

I don't believe all diagnosis are right because I was told I had ADD (a variant). I have always believed it's part of an attempt to put simple labels on students teachers consider "different" so they don't have to be bothered to understand the student's needs.

You know you could have posted this in the ADHD thread, right?

You know you could have posted this in the ADHD thread, right?

He did.... repeatedly.... nobody listened to him.... so he made a thread about it

So, I'm wondering how many people will answer "No, I have it". :p

No! I have it!

That answer is the inverse of what my answer actually is.

i know people who dont belive in it

While I believe in it, I also believe it's overdiagnosed. I've met many children "diagnosed" with it who don't exhibit any of the symptoms. Sometimes, parents just don't know how to raise a normal child, and prefer to dope them up so that they don't have to deal with them.

For others, with real ADHD, this is harmful, because it causes many people to believe that ADHD is not real, because it's too easy to meet a misdiagnosed child.

The credibility of the medical profession on this subject is near zero in my opinion - there are few doctors who I would trust to accurately diagnose the condition in my area.

And plenty who I would not trust.

Sometimes, parents just can't be arsed raising a child, and prefer to dope them up so that they don't have to deal with them.

Fixed.

Fixed.

That too.

Oh, well, I'll say it again.

What I can't understand is why people with ADHD love to post in the internet forums and engage in written communication.

It's like blind people going to practice at the firing range.

It's like storm troopers going to practice at the firing range.

Fixed.

Winnar!

Woohoo! What do I get? :)

So, I'm wondering how many people will answer "No, I have it". :p

I picked that one.

ADD is a cop out, too many people claiming it when they don't have it.

Fixed.

Winnar!

Winnar!

Have you seen the episode of Family Guy where the stormtrooper is at the shooting range?

Oh, well, I'll say it again.

What I can't understand is why people with ADHD love to post in the internet forums and engage in written communication.

It's like blind people going to practice at the firing range.

Uh, no. It isn't. Bad analogy. That would be analogous to illiterate people posting on Internet forums and engaging in written communication. There's no correlation between ADD/ADHD and illiteracy. :rolleyes:

Woohoo! What do I get? :)

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/Thread.jpg

Uh, no. It isn't. Bad analogy. That would be analogous to illiterate people posting on Internet forums and engaging in written communication. There's no correlation between ADD/ADHD and illiteracy. :rolleyes:

Illiterates love it. As aspergerians love parties too.

I agree with what seems to be the consensus, that it may indeed be a legitimate condition but that it's badly overdiagnosed.

My problem is with an inherent conflict of interest that exists in the pharmaceutical (sp?) industry. They have an interest in getting their product out there, just like everyone else, but in their case they have a legion of doctors who, having a similar interest in gaining/retaining patients, are only too happy to diagnose it. It's a sort of skewered "everybody wins" scenario-as long as you're not the patient.

Pharmaceutical company wins - more sales of their product
Doctor wins - more patient visits/kickbacks (Yeah I know they insist that there are no kickbacks, but just because it ain't a blatant cash handout doesn't mean diddly.)
Parent wins - they feel like they can get control over the situation and the warm fuzzies of believing they're helping their child.
teacher wins - active child starts staring at his pencil

Meanwhile in most cases it's probably something entirely different that's gone unaddressed. Case in point:

When my elder son was about 8 his teacher told us we should have him checked for ADD. He was unable to complete his tasks in class and was chronically late in handing in assignments. He frequently was caught doing other things at his desk rather than schoolwork. As it turns out, he was bored off his arse and was utterly unchallenged in that class. The teacher failed to recognize the problem for what it was. The following year, he had a much sharper teacher who recommended he be put into some advanced classes.

He's achieved nothing but 4.0 GPAs ever since. he's also active in band, boyscouts and a Dungeons & Dragons club. He's going to an advanced school where he's taking classes ahead of his age bracket and doing extremely well.

...all without ever once taking a drug for ADD.

ADD and ADHD are cop-outs for shite parenting.

"Your kid behaves like an ass."

"Oh, well, he must have ADD or ADHD. It can't possibly be that I don't know how or can't be bothered to discipline the little shit."

:rolleyes:

And your opinion is backed up by what research? Oh, right, none. You're just pulling shit out of your ass.

And your opinion is backed up by what research? Oh, right, none. You're just pulling shit out of your ass.

As everyone's opinions here, in any case. Including yours. So please do not start to rough this up.

As everyone's opinions here, in any case. Including yours. So please do not start to rough this up.

I'm reasonably sure that those in the position of ADHD existing have research to back their point up. What with there being research that backs their point up and all.

And your opinion is backed up by what research? Oh, right, none. You're just pulling shit out of your ass.

I'm gonna guess you're one of those kids to which I referred in my previous post. :rolleyes:

I'm reasonably sure that those in the position of ADHD existing have research to back their point up. What with there being research that backs their point up and all.

As has already been pointed out in this thread, said "research" is all so very self-serving on all fronts.

I'm reasonably sure that those in the position of ADHD existing have research to back their point up. What with there being research that backs their point up and all.

Yeah, yeah, but as inconclusive as Cluitch's opinion.

Yeah, yeah, but as inconclusive as Cluitch's opinion.

But then my opinion doesn't give parents an out for shitty or non-existent discipline, nor does it sell drugs or pay for psychologists to "treat" those "affected" with these "illnesses." :rolleyes:

And your opinion is backed up by what research? Oh, right, none. You're just pulling shit out of your ass.

Opinions don't need to be based on anything though.

Children, children. Play nice.

Yeah, yeah, but as inconclusive as Cluitch's opinion.

If you consider mountains of research, support from the APA, and successful treatment with a drug that would not result in observable benefits if ADHD did not exist (they're stimulants) inconclusive...

If you consider mountains of research, support from the APA, and successful treatment with a drug that would not result in observable benefits if ADHD did not exist (they're stimulants) inconclusive...

Ah, yes, the APA. Clearly, they're an unbiased lot. They don't make arseloads of money off of these "diagnoses."

http://gallery.digitaldeviation.com/d/1292-1/bsmeter.gif

If you consider mountains of research, support from the APA, and successful treatment with a drug that would not result in observable benefits if ADHD did not exist (they're stimulants) inconclusive...

I do consider it inconclusive. The APA support maybe makes it conclusive, inside american borders. Some, just some of the world's population isn't included in that lot, just to expand a bit your common knowledge.

No.

"ADHD" is part of the wider, disturbing trend of medicalising personality traits. Some kids are just excitable, some young people are whiny, etc. etc. To suggest that these things are medical conditions that can be cured through extensive pharmacy is very dangerous.

No.

"ADHD" is part of the wider, disturbing trend of medicalising personality traits. Some kids are just excitable, some young people are whiny, etc. etc. To suggest that these things are medical conditions that can be cured through extensive pharmacy is very dangerous.

And the actual observable differences in brain structure is what? A hallucination?

No.

"ADHD" is part of the wider, disturbing trend of medicalising personality traits. Some kids are just excitable, some young people are whiny, etc. etc. To suggest that these things are medical conditions that can be cured through extensive pharmacy is very dangerous.

I've seen severe depression, combined with bipolar disorder, PTSD, and generalized anxiety disorder completely cured.

Through two medications.

It makes that person happy, productive, and incredibly good to be with.

You're saying we should leave the depressed to hang themselves, and thrash the lives of those around them?

I've seen severe depression, combined with bipolar disorder, PTSD, and generalized anxiety disorder completely cured.

Through two medications.

It makes that person happy, productive, and incredibly good to be with.

You're saying we should leave the depressed to hang themselves, and thrash the lives of those around them?

As long as the rest of us doesn't have to pay for your medication, it is good. As long as you spend your entire wage on it and doesn't disturb anyone else, I agree.

As long as the rest of us doesn't have to pay for your medication, it is good. As long as you spend your entire wage on it and doesn't disturb anyone else, I agree.

I don't have to pay for it - it's my wife's medication. And, I don't have to spend my entire wage on it, because I have insurance provided to me by my employer.

10 dollars a bottle (two bottles) once a month.

I don't have to pay for it - it's my wife's medication. And, I don't have to spend my entire wage on it, because I have insurance provided to me by my employer.

10 dollars a bottle (two bottles) once a month.

That insurance is not subsidized by the goverment/taxes?

That insurance is not subsidized by the goverment/taxes?

Nope. It's private insurance. The employer pays for it.

So can a lot of things, like oh...I dunno...not clinging to the idea that they've got a "disease" they can't control without meds and actually having them take control of themselves and their lives?


Some people can't. I believe that a lot of these things are overdiagnosed for the reasons you outline, but it doesn't change the fact that some of the people do have real problems.

I've seen severe depression, combined with bipolar disorder, PTSD, and generalized anxiety disorder completely cured.

Through two medications.

It makes that person happy, productive, and incredibly good to be with.

So can a lot of things, like oh...I dunno...not clinging to the idea that they've got a "disease" they can't control without meds and actually having them take control of themselves and their lives?

I don't have to pay for it - it's my wife's medication. And, I don't have to spend my entire wage on it, because I have insurance provided to me by my employer.

10 dollars a bottle (two bottles) once a month.

Oh, right. Forgot about the insurance companies. Add them to the list of folks profiting from these faux "disorders."

Some people can't. I believe that a lot of these things are overdiagnosed for the reasons you outline, but it doesn't change the fact that some of the people do have real problems.

No problems that they can't sort out for themselves without using some BS diagnosis and some drugs as a crutch.

No problems that they can't sort out for themselves without using some BS diagnosis and some drugs as a crutch.

No, I've seen it first-hand. The drugs aren't a crutch. For some, they actually solve the problem completely.

No problems that they can't sort out for themselves without using some BS diagnosis and some drugs as a crutch.

Well, if you're willing to disregard the opinions of the experts, mountains of published research, and the experiences of numerous people who actually have ADD/ADHD, then I guess there's nothing that's going to change your mind. There's as much point in arguing with you as there is in arguing with a stone wall. :rolleyes:

Nope. It's private insurance. The employer pays for it.

Oh, it is compulsory to pay the medications of the employee's family members where you live?

Aannd, if your wife truly had all that complete package...Shouldn't she had to spend some time in a mental institution? Just asking

No problems that they can't sort out for themselves without using some BS diagnosis and some drugs as a crutch.

Unfortunatly yes, there are some people who would need medication or else they would be dead the next morning. I understand that ADD and ADHD may not be as serious, and i agree to some extent, but depression and such are deffinatly serious issues that you can't just say "they can sort it out themselves."

Oh, it is compulsory to pay the medications of the employee's family members where you live?

No such socialist nonsense.

Employers here know that if they want great employees, they have to offer free medical insurance for their families.

Aannd, if your wife truly had all that complete package...Shouldn't she had to spend some time in a mental institution? Just asking

Nope. With the modern drugs, it's possible to check the blood for the chemical imbalances, and treat them from an ordinary office.

No such socialist nonsense.

Employers here know that if they want great employees, they have to offer free medical insurance for their families.



Nope. With the modern drugs, it's possible to check the blood for the chemical imbalances, and treat them from an ordinary office.

So she never ever was treated by a psychiatric institution but just for a psychiatrist at his office?

Weren't perscription drugs one way to keep people out of mental institutions? Just asking

Yep, quite the Doctor, that one that prescribes such drugs without second opinions and extensive study of the patient, if she truly have that package of conditions.

Aannd, if your wife truly had all that complete package...Shouldn't she had to spend some time in a mental institution? Just asking

Weren't perscription drugs one way to keep people out of mental institutions? Just asking

No, I've seen it first-hand. The drugs aren't a crutch. For some, they actually solve the problem completely.

There's a big difference between solving problems and doping them away.

Well, if you're willing to disregard the opinions of the experts, mountains of published research, and the experiences of numerous people who actually have ADD/ADHD, then I guess there's nothing that's going to change your mind. There's as much point in arguing with you as there is in arguing with a stone wall. :rolleyes:

Already been through this -- the "experts," their "research" and their self-interest in propagating this load of crap. Oh, and the people who "actually have ADD/ADHD"? Come now. Nothing more than an excuse for their lack of ability to deal in ordinary society and, more importantly, their lack of effort to address that problem themselves. Not wasting anymore time on this "argument."

There's a big difference between solving problems and doping them away.

Actually, in some cases, no difference at all. And you're not "doped" - you're returned to a condition people call "normal".

Especially when there's a proven chemical imbalance, that once corrected, resolves the problems.

Actually, in some cases, no difference at all. And you're not "doped" - you're returned to a condition people call "normal".

Especially when there's a proven chemical imbalance, that once corrected, resolves the problems.

What exactly is a "normal" condition or brain state?

It's nonsense like the above that misdiagnoses personality traits and individual characters as ADHD, OCD and the like.

The idea that we should be drugging kids to conform them to a "normal" state is disgusting.

Aannd, if your wife truly had all that complete package...Shouldn't she had to spend some time in a mental institution? Just asking
These days, as a rule, people are rarely placed in mental institutions except in one or more of the following circumstances:
1. The classic "imminent danger to self or others".
2. The patient is being given a course of medication that has potentially dangerous side effects that require monitoring.
3. Repeated, prolonged attempts at outpatient treatment have produced no result.

Most people with serious depression don't fit those categories. Outpatient treatment with medication is the usual course. Hospitalization is expensive and in most cases unnecessary, so it isn't something that's usually done except when it's clearly needed.

Unfortunatly yes, there are some people who would need medication or else they would be dead the next morning. I understand that ADD and ADHD may not be as serious, and i agree to some extent, but depression and such are deffinatly serious issues that you can't just say "they can sort it out themselves."

Despression? Seriously...

"Oh, I'm very sad. I've got a serious mental problem."

Bloody ridiculous. We all get despressed from time to time, sometimes for an extended period of time. You work through it.

Lemme try a different tack here, though. We accept taking drugs to overcome depression, yet the bloke who "drinks to forget" his depression isn't facing his problems properly. Both are doing exactly the same thing, but one has a shrink and a pharmacist, while the other just has a liquor store. No difference really. Psychologists and phsychiatrists, of course, will say otherwise, because they've got money to make -- even more so if they can "treat" the second guy for his drinking.

It's all bullshit.

It's all bullshit.
Exactly.

It's the same as 20th century conditions such as 'hysteria'.

I've never understood why so many are so frightened of emotion and character.

I do believe ADD and ADHD are real. I have raised 9 foster kids and two of them were dianosed with ADHD. My daughter is totally a different person when she isn't on her meds; mean, hateful, depressed, unable to stick to one task, she wouldn't be able to read (she's 12) if it wasn't for the meds. A lot of people don't understand that if a child is dianosed with ADHD and is put on the meds and they don't see a change, then they don't have ADHD. The meds are basicly speed and the theory is that it will slow them down, a peridoxyl effect. If the meds make them speed, then it's not ADHD! My son was first put on such meds and it didn't work, then he was finally dianosed with bipolar and ODD.

I do believe ADD and ADHD are real. I have raised 9 foster kids and two of them were dianosed with ADHD. My daughter is totally a different person when she isn't on her meds; mean, hateful, depressed, unable to stick to one task, she wouldn't be able to read (she's 12) if it wasn't for the meds.
I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but couldn't your daughter just be a bit moody and mean-spirited?

Of course people change when they are on meds; surprise, surprise, it's a drug.

If I took speed all the time my character would be wildly different.

EDIT: And ODD... the symptoms are "aggressiveness and a tendency to purposefully bother and irritate others" (Linky (http://www.klis.com/chandler/pamphlet/oddcd/oddcdpamphlet.htm#_Toc135732018)). This is my big problem with modern 'disorders'; the symptoms are so vague and widespread, yet are seen as abhorrent and alien.

I do believe ADD and ADHD are real. I have raised 9 foster kids and two of them were dianosed with ADHD. My daughter is totally a different person when she isn't on her meds; mean, hateful, depressed, unable to stick to one task, she wouldn't be able to read (she's 12) if it wasn't for the meds. A lot of people don't understand that if a child is dianosed with ADHD and is put on the meds and they don't see a change, then they don't have ADHD. The meds are basicly speed and the theory is that it will slow them down, a peridoxyl effect. If the meds make them speed, then it's not ADHD! My son was first put on such meds and it didn't work, then he was finally dianosed with bipolar and ODD.
This is correct. Some stimulants, such as caffeine and speed, can have the opposite effect on ADD people do to difference in the brain. Caffeine slows down my body and makes me drowsy, but speeds up my mind, and causes me to shake. I basically get half the symptoms of caffeine, rather than speeding up my body, too. This is one way to see if you have ADD.

I also took some of my mother's medicine, who had ADD, (she allowed me) and it had a extreme effect on me. I slowed down so much I had trouble staying awake. Adderol, the medicine, is pretty much speed, so... See my above point.

HOWEVER,
I believe that the real problem is that too many kids who actually have ADD are receiving a prescription when what they need is an understanding. I don't mean psychiatric help, but help from friends and family and even doctors, who understand what it is like to have ADD. I don't need to take medicine because I have a mother and brother who understand what I am going through, and can help me through it.

While I believe in it, I also believe it's overdiagnosed. I've met many children "diagnosed" with it who don't exhibit any of the symptoms. Sometimes, parents just don't know how to raise a normal child, and prefer to dope them up so that they don't have to deal with them.

For others, with real ADHD, this is harmful, because it causes many people to believe that ADHD is not real, because it's too easy to meet a misdiagnosed child.

The credibility of the medical profession on this subject is near zero in my opinion - there are few doctors who I would trust to accurately diagnose the condition in my area.

And plenty who I would not trust.

AMEN, bretheren and sistren! There was a set of parents... okay, a mother, down the street from us who essentially decided her daughter had ADHD, and shopped around until she found a doctor who'd diagnose the kid and give her Ritalin. Last I heard, the kid (now seventeen or eighteen) has a whole bunch of emotional problems, most of which probably stem from the fact that she was conceived to... replace a daughter who'd died in a car accident. Constant comparison to a 'perfect' lost kid can do that to ya. :(

When she was first dianosed about 5 years ago, she wasn't the mean etc person. She would not be able to sit for more than a few minutes, literaly climbing over the table couch etc. It's been a while and it's hard to remember what all had happen. I have 4 kids (adopted 4 of 9) 3 with ODD, one bipolar, and one ADHD and one with no problems, so I have seen a lot. I try to work with my daughter, M, by helping her to notice her behavior, asking her if she can tell a difference when the meds are running out of her system and working with her so she isn't and won't be dependant on the meds to function. It's really sad, I think, that this child has to take meds to work during the day and meds to help her to sleep at night. I feel like she's like Elvis. M is very bright and knows that it helps her. She also knows that she has to learn how to quite her body and her mind so she can sleep.

You know you could have posted this in the ADHD thread, right?helo i did if you mean DO YOU HAVE ADHD

No problems that they can't sort out for themselves without using some BS diagnosis and some drugs as a crutch.

Scientology is law!

Despression? Seriously...

"Oh, I'm very sad. I've got a serious mental problem."

Bloody ridiculous. We all get despressed from time to time, sometimes for an extended period of time. You work through it.

Lemme try a different tack here, though. We accept taking drugs to overcome depression, yet the bloke who "drinks to forget" his depression isn't facing his problems properly. Both are doing exactly the same thing, but one has a shrink and a pharmacist, while the other just has a liquor store. No difference really. Psychologists and phsychiatrists, of course, will say otherwise, because they've got money to make -- even more so if they can "treat" the second guy for his drinking.

It's all bullshit.


I don't recall -- from whence did you get your medical/psychiatric degree?

Well, ADHD is "Real" in what sense?

In that it's listed in the DSM as a disorder? That doctors (doctors, not psychologists) prescribe medications for it? That a lot of people get diagnosed with it?

If it's "real" does that mean anyone diagnosed with it "really" has it? No. Yes, ADHD is what I perceive as a valid psychological disorder, but it is not as prevalent as one might think. According to the ADHD thread, 30% of the NS General population is inflicted with it. Not bad, considering psychologists only estimate 3-5 percent of the general population. Perhaps we're all just more fucked up. Or perhaps we get our diagnoses from MDs who know more about a broken arm than mental health.

It is over-diagnosed, and stimulants arer over-prescribed. We have a whole generation with, apparently, one-third of the kids being on a form of amphetamine at all times...

I think it's often misdiagnosed. Some kids are just different, whereas some actually have a problem. Tom Lehrer skipped a few grades because he wasn't paying attention and they figured he must be pretty smart. He graduated from Harvard when he was 18. Nowadays, of course, he would be drugged to zombification. I'm not exaggerating this, some of those ADD drugs basically sap people's personality. Not all, but some.

Ritalin Cures Next Picasso
WORCESTER, MA—Area 7-year-old Douglas Castellano's unbridled energy and creativity are no longer a problem thanks to Ritalin, doctors for the child announced Monday. "After years of failed attempts to stop Douglas' uncontrollable bouts of self-expression, we have finally found success with Ritalin," Dr. Irwin Schraeger said. "For the first time in his life, Douglas can actually sit down and not think about lots of things at once." Castellano's parents reported that the cured child no longer tries to draw on everything in sight, calming down enough to show an interest in television.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/32261

Despression? Seriously...

"Oh, I'm very sad. I've got a serious mental problem."

Bloody ridiculous. We all get despressed from time to time, sometimes for an extended period of time. You work through it.

Lemme try a different tack here, though. We accept taking drugs to overcome depression, yet the bloke who "drinks to forget" his depression isn't facing his problems properly. Both are doing exactly the same thing, but one has a shrink and a pharmacist, while the other just has a liquor store. No difference really. Psychologists and phsychiatrists, of course, will say otherwise, because they've got money to make -- even more so if they can "treat" the second guy for his drinking.

It's all bullshit.

Again, the majority of depression victims are just having a bad day and doctors take advantage of it. I agree, yet don't say that there must not be a true depression because of that.

And about your idea. That is mostly since people see alchohol as harmful which sets off the alarm that he's not "doing it right." I personally think your right... to an extent. Society sees doctors as highly classed and always knows whats best. Your right, half the time the shit they do is corrupt and stupid, yet i don't disregard people who might actually need some sort of help.

Illiterates love it. As aspergerians love parties too.
Hey I like parties! When they don't get too loud...

(Aspergers!)

Now I admit ADD And ADHD are over termed when it turns out to be something else.

(Called ADHD, then Depressed, then Bi-polar, then something else until they finally figured it out.)

And no I did not have an uncaring parent I had a freaking stay at home mom Cluichstan. I wasn't ignored. And (since I know what 90% of your kind say "If you just hit them more it'll go away") YES I was spanked if that's what excuse you were about to pull out next. Didn't work though.

Beat that!

According to the ADHD thread, 30% of the NS General population is inflicted with it.
... Then again, I notice that those with mental conditions socialize better online... Usually.

Depression however isn't feeling sad. If you're still sad a month after a person you know's death, that's not depression that's grief. If your still just as sad 6 months later... You might have a problem.
----
Further more, after being involved with others with conditions I can promise you that they are real you can tell when a person is ADHD or when a person is just faking it because they don't want to bother.

So in conclusion, you don't have a freaking clue.

Despression? Seriously...

"Oh, I'm very sad. I've got a serious mental problem."

Bloody ridiculous. We all get despressed from time to time, sometimes for an extended period of time. You work through it.

Lemme try a different tack here, though. We accept taking drugs to overcome depression, yet the bloke who "drinks to forget" his depression isn't facing his problems properly. Both are doing exactly the same thing, but one has a shrink and a pharmacist, while the other just has a liquor store. No difference really. Psychologists and phsychiatrists, of course, will say otherwise, because they've got money to make -- even more so if they can "treat" the second guy for his drinking.

It's all bullshit.

Speaking of bullshit, the idea that clinical depression is simply a matter of being "very sad" would certainly warrant that label. Honestly, how many times in your life have you felt so "very sad" that you literally couldn't work up the energy to get out of bed? How many times have you felt so "very sad" that you were absolutely rationally convinced that you were entirely worthless and deserved to die? How many times have you felt so "very sad" that you neglected your job and family to the point where you were at serious risk of losing both? And - here's the kicker - how many times have you done all these things while having NO IDEA what you were actually sad about?

Now, to get past this sort of nonsensical "illnesses that affect your brain are TOTALLY different from illnesses that affect your other organs, because...um...I said so" crap, yes, of course ADD/ADHD is real. I will even go so far as to say that it is not significantly overdiagnosed. Now, before people jump on me about that statement, I want you to think carefully about what constitutes a "diagnosis." Here's a hint: teachers, parents, and random passers-by aren't qualified to make one. I have heard many, many, many stories of people without MDs who believe any child who's a bit hyperactive or inattentive must have ADD. This is, of course, incorrect, but it's absurd to reject the existence of a disorder because people who know nothing about it over-"diagnose" it. Yes, there are some doctors who hand out Ritalin too freely. There also many doctors who hand out antibiotics too freely. Should we conclude from that that bacterial infections are a myth?

I think it's often misdiagnosed. Some kids are just different, whereas some actually have a problem. Tom Lehrer skipped a few grades because he wasn't paying attention and they figured he must be pretty smart. He graduated from Harvard when he was 18. Nowadays, of course, he would be drugged to zombification. I'm not exaggerating this, some of those ADD drugs basically sap people's personality. Not all, but some.
ADHD is treated with stimulants. That isn't zombification.



http://www.theonion.com/content/node/32261
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

You just cited the Onion as an actual source.

I still believe it's fake. just cuz you make your statement a thred title does not mean its true.

I still believe it's fake. just cuz you make your statement a thred title does not mean its true.

And we still believe that your stubborn denial in the face of all kinds of evidence makes your position silly.

Well, ADHD is "Real" in what sense?

In that it's listed in the DSM as a disorder? That doctors (doctors, not psychologists) prescribe medications for it? That a lot of people get diagnosed with it?

If it's "real" does that mean anyone diagnosed with it "really" has it? No. Yes, ADHD is what I perceive as a valid psychological disorder, but it is not as prevalent as one might think. According to the ADHD thread, 30% of the NS General population is inflicted with it. Not bad, considering psychologists only estimate 3-5 percent of the general population. Perhaps we're all just more fucked up. Or perhaps we get our diagnoses from MDs who know more about a broken arm than mental health.

It is over-diagnosed, and stimulants arer over-prescribed. We have a whole generation with, apparently, one-third of the kids being on a form of amphetamine at all times...

I got my diagnosis from a psychologist...

But I think that ADHD is diagnosed quite often to be taken seriously, and that the medications are prescribed to people who don't need them. I also think that the medications (not the diorder, the medications) are totally bogus- I do better in school, but I don't eat and I get pissy more often. Either way, my social life suffers and I wind up taking a hit of that sweet, sweet NSG...

Apparently all the pills are good for is better school performance, which is really dangerous since parents will over-medicate their kids instead of helping them with their homework. :headbang:

I don't recall -- from whence did you get your medical/psychiatric degree?

Don't need one. In fact, having one and claiming that this crap is a real disorder is simply self-serving, as I've already said, Kat.

And we still believe that your stubborn denial in the face of all kinds of evidence makes your position silly.

Again, "evidence" from those who have a selfish interest in promoting the notion that these "disorders" exist.

It's like asking a priest if God exists. Of course, he's going to say yes, and he'll come up with some half-cocked evidence of his own. Why? Because it's in his best interests to do so. The same applies to the "science" of psychology. Can we actually see this so-called evidence? No, we see behaviours, the explanation for which is clearly open to debate. The psychologists and psychiatrists who have a vested interest in perpetuating the notion that those behaviours are caused by an illness of some kind that only they can treat? Well, sorry, but I'm not inclined to believe their self-serving "explanation" for these behaviours.

Again, "evidence" from those who have a selfish interest in promoting the notion that these "disorders" exist.

It's like asking a priest if God exists. Of course, he's going to say yes, and he'll come up with some half-cocked evidence of his own. Why? Because it's in his best interests to do so. The same applies to the "science" of psychology. Can we actually see this so-called evidence? No, we see behaviours, the explanation for which is clearly open to debate. The psychologists and psychiatrists who have a vested interest in perpetuating the notion that those behaviours are caused by an illness of some kind that only they can treat? Well, sorry, but I'm not inclined to believe their self-serving "explanation" for these behaviours.

QFT

These days, as a rule, people are rarely placed in mental institutions except in one or more of the following circumstances:
1. The classic "imminent danger to self or others".
2. The patient is being given a course of medication that has potentially dangerous side effects that require monitoring.
3. Repeated, prolonged attempts at outpatient treatment have produced no result.

Most people with serious depression don't fit those categories. Outpatient treatment with medication is the usual course. Hospitalization is expensive and in most cases unnecessary, so it isn't something that's usually done except when it's clearly needed.

Thanks, didn't know that.

Oh, and by the way. You can always find a psychiatrist that think that things like ADD and ADHD are usually overdiagnosed, or even ones that believe that people with said disorders are normal enough and do not need drugs as a treatment. Of course, they don't get so much attention and public speaking, as pharmacy companies do not support them.

Heheh I had a person here once start to take the piss out of my bad speiling, and when I told then I suffered form dyslexcia he asked me if I was sure, and isn't that made up think as he knows a lot of young lazy American kids use ot as an excuse. Heh I said yeah I'm fuckin sure as I have suffeed from it for all of my 40 British years!Yup. Plenty of ignorant self-righteous types 'don't believe' in learning disabilities.

I was going to link to various studies and sources, such as the U.S. Surgeon General, the National Institute of Mental Health, the American Medical Association, Centers for Disease Control, and international consensus opinions. (Here is one such link (http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/science).)

But what is the point?

If you are such an asshat that you'd write depression, AD/HD, and other serious mental disorders off as a combination of individual character flaws and an international medical conspiracy, then there is no reasoning with you.

Yay for the difference between Psychologists and Psychiatrists. They both prescribe great drugs.

Don't need one. In fact, having one and claiming that this crap is a real disorder is simply self-serving, as I've already said, Kat.



Again, "evidence" from those who have a selfish interest in promoting the notion that these "disorders" exist.

So basically, you've not a shred of evidence other than "I said so."
Again, given the vast amount of evidence from medical associations, psychiatric associations, pharmaceutical associations, and sufferers of the conditions you claim don't exist, from all corners of world, the position you defend is laughable.

I voted no-don't have it. Now before I get hit by bricks, baseball bats and so on, allow me to explain myself.

As many people on this thread have agreed, it can be over diagnosed. Given how it is diagnosed, it is not surprising - it is diagnosed through a series of observations; not through any examination such as for most diseases. Also, the observations are of such things as

Is often easily distracted
Often blurts out answers before questions have been finished

Let us be honest, observations like that can be associated with anything. The kid can be particularly bright, or like most boys; have a short attention span. If we can say that the diagnosis is on shaky ground, then we must ask why - why would anyone diagnose people with the disease so hastily. The answer is a combination of factors.

First of all, you have doctors under pressure - doctors have been essentially forced to give people antibiotics for common colds, so why not give them a diagnosis for ADHD. Furthermore, a parent can easily travel around and find the answer they seek.

Secondly, you have teachers. Teachers, naturally, get stressed due to hyperactive students, and they want them to calm down. The easiest way to satisfy that would be an ADHD diagnosis and a few courses of Ritalin.

Thirdly, you have the parents. Parents these days, for whatever the reason is, cannot or will not spend the time with their children to get to know them, it does not help that parents are resorting to television as an unofficial babysitter instead of letting their children run around outside. That would certainly be enough to get rid of some of the pent up energy.

Finally, you have the left. Yes, the left-wingers that want to get into our homes. What easier way to say that smacking is not needed if you diagnose every single disobedient child with ADHD - here parents, you don't need to smack your children, here give them some Ritalin. Down here in New Zealand, there was a case of a woman that smacked her child and the child got taken away by CYFS (provider of social services). This child had been naughty and the mother had smacked him. After he was taken away, he was no longer smacked and due to his misbehaviour, he was placed on a course of Ritalin - it calmed him down, but left him with severe psychological effects.

Some people may have a disorder like ADHD, but it is certainly not the myriads suggested - its exponential growth, like that of Autism, must be investigated properly.

Now feel free to throw those bricks and baseball bats.

I have it pretty bad, (ADD) but I don't really believe it, because it's pretty much just an excuse to put kids on narcotics.

I voted no-don't have it. Now before I get hit by bricks, baseball bats and so on, allow me to explain myself.

As many people on this thread have agreed, it can be over diagnosed. Given how it is diagnosed, it is not surprising - it is diagnosed through a series of observations; not through any examination such as for most diseases. Also, the observations are of such things as

Is often easily distracted
Often blurts out answers before questions have been finished

Let us be honest, observations like that can be associated with anything. The kid can be particularly bright, or like most boys; have a short attention span. If we can say that the diagnosis is on shaky ground, then we must ask why - why would anyone diagnose people with the disease so hastily. The answer is a combination of factors.

First of all, you have doctors under pressure - doctors have been essentially forced to give people antibiotics for common colds, so why not give them a diagnosis for ADHD. Furthermore, a parent can easily travel around and find the answer they seek.

Secondly, you have teachers. Teachers, naturally, get stressed due to hyperactive students, and they want them to calm down. The easiest way to satisfy that would be an ADHD diagnosis and a few courses of Ritalin.

Thirdly, you have the parents. Parents these days, for whatever the reason is, cannot or will not spend the time with their children to get to know them, it does not help that parents are resorting to television as an unofficial babysitter instead of letting their children run around outside. That would certainly be enough to get rid of some of the pent up energy.

Finally, you have the left. Yes, the left-wingers that want to get into our homes. What easier way to say that smacking is not needed if you diagnose every single disobedient child with ADHD - here parents, you don't need to smack your children, here give them some Ritalin. Down here in New Zealand, there was a case of a woman that smacked her child and the child got taken away by CYFS (provider of social services). This child had been naughty and the mother had smacked him. After he was taken away, he was no longer smacked and due to his misbehaviour, he was placed on a course of Ritalin - it calmed him down, but left him with severe psychological effects.

Some people may have a disorder like ADHD, but it is certainly not the myriads suggested - its exponential growth, like that of Autism, must be investigated properly.

Now feel free to throw those bricks and baseball bats.

I agree with your reasoning, but I have been diagnosed with ADD without any of those four factors. My parents helped me with my work, I was diagnosed by a psychologist, and I'm not ure that keft-wingers had anything to do with it.

BTW, Ritalin isn't the only treatment for ADD- I take Concerta.

Do the people who voted "No - have it" not believe in their own existence?

BTW for all of you throwing around the "teachers want kids to have drugs" I have NEVER recommended to a parent that their kid be tested for ADD/ADHD.

In eight years of teaching, how many kids have I come into contact with who honestly have the disorder (as opposed to simply being a pain in my ass): one.

That's it, a whole one. And I've learned to adapt strategies to include him with the rest of the class and minimize the effects of his learning disability. Does it work perfectly? No. Is he a bad kid? HELL no. Does it make teaching him in a mainstream class a challenge? HELL yes.

But don't let me distract you from your "teachers want drugged up kids" theory.

I have it pretty bad, (ADD) but I don't really believe it, because it's pretty much just an excuse to put kids on narcotics.

Dude...I'm pretty sure most ADD drugs aren't narcotics.

BTW for all of you throwing around the "teachers want kids to have drugs" I have NEVER recommended to a parent that their kid be tested for ADD/ADHD.

In eight years of teaching, how many kids have I come into contact with who honestly have the disorder (as opposed to simply being a pain in my ass): one.

That's it, a whole one. And I've learned to adapt strategies to include him with the rest of the class and minimize the effects of his learning disability. Does it work perfectly? No. Is he a bad kid? HELL no. Does it make teaching him in a mainstream class a challenge? HELL yes.

But don't let me distract you from your "teachers want drugged up kids" theory.

*notices that Kat's shifted the blame away from teachers and back at parents*
Damnit, can't have that.
*shifts the blame again*

I can't think of a single teacher I've ever had who has actually advocated Ritalin for a student.

Slightly hyper, hard to control kids >> Chemical Zmobies

BTW for all of you throwing around the "teachers want kids to have drugs" I have NEVER recommended to a parent that their kid be tested for ADD/ADHD.

In eight years of teaching, how many kids have I come into contact with who honestly have the disorder (as opposed to simply being a pain in my ass): one.

That's it, a whole one. And I've learned to adapt strategies to include him with the rest of the class and minimize the effects of his learning disability. Does it work perfectly? No. Is he a bad kid? HELL no. Does it make teaching him in a mainstream class a challenge? HELL yes.

But don't let me distract you from your "teachers want drugged up kids" theory.
Kat if all the teachers were like you the world would be a much better place, even if the majority were we would see an improvement. Around here teachers like you are few and far between, and mostly about to retire.

I had a teacher that did try to "diagnose" my kid with ADD, but I realize (luckily) she isn't typical either.

BTW for all of you throwing around the "teachers want kids to have drugs" I have NEVER recommended to a parent that their kid be tested for ADD/ADHD.

In eight years of teaching, how many kids have I come into contact with who honestly have the disorder (as opposed to simply being a pain in my ass): one.

That's it, a whole one. And I've learned to adapt strategies to include him with the rest of the class and minimize the effects of his learning disability. Does it work perfectly? No. Is he a bad kid? HELL no. Does it make teaching him in a mainstream class a challenge? HELL yes.

But don't let me distract you from your "teachers want drugged up kids" theory.

Heh. Yeah, while I am sure that there exist some lousy teachers who just want kids to shut up and leave them alone, some lousy parents who can't be bothered to take care of their kids, and some lousy doctors who let themselves be pressured into prescribing unnecessary drugs, I'm also fairly certain that most teachers actually want their students to learn, most parents want their children to be happy and successful, and most doctors want to do the right things for their patients' health. Unfortunately, some of the posters on this thread instead exist in a strange universe where the secret cabal of evil drug company executives, doctors, teachers, and parents meet at midnight in dark warehouses to plot what drug they will cruelly force poor unsuspecting children to take next. :p

BTW for all of you throwing around the "teachers want kids to have drugs" I have NEVER recommended to a parent that their kid be tested for ADD/ADHD.

In eight years of teaching, how many kids have I come into contact with who honestly have the disorder (as opposed to simply being a pain in my ass): one.

That's it, a whole one. And I've learned to adapt strategies to include him with the rest of the class and minimize the effects of his learning disability. Does it work perfectly? No. Is he a bad kid? HELL no. Does it make teaching him in a mainstream class a challenge? HELL yes.

But don't let me distract you from your "teachers want drugged up kids" theory.

Just because you haven't doesn't meant that there are teachers who follow the same mantra as you.

In my experience it was just an attempt to put a label on me. My teachers hated anyone who didn't conform and it was easier to try and put me in a 'special ed' class or send me off to the "hearing teacher" et cetera; ad nauseum, so they wouldn't have to deal with the fact that I hated following instructions down to the last detail on how to draw a friggin' piece of artwork or write a story or even answer a science question.

The only reason I was never drugged up was because my dad refused to let them get away with it and forced the board of education to remove the label of "ADD" from my permanent record. My mother would have loved that but my dad's permission would have been required for it...

Of course, it helps that the one student who did take Ritalin when I was in grade 7 wound up closing the school for half a day because he doped up on Ritalin during lunch, mixing it with drugs and went on the roof of the school...

*notices that Kat's shifted the blame away from teachers and back at parents*

Please point out where I said that parents are to blame.
I merely stated I have never told a parent to have their kid tested for ADD/ADHD.

BTW for all of you throwing around the "teachers want kids to have drugs" I have NEVER recommended to a parent that their kid be tested for ADD/ADHD.

In eight years of teaching, how many kids have I come into contact with who honestly have the disorder (as opposed to simply being a pain in my ass): one.

That's it, a whole one. And I've learned to adapt strategies to include him with the rest of the class and minimize the effects of his learning disability. Does it work perfectly? No. Is he a bad kid? HELL no. Does it make teaching him in a mainstream class a challenge? HELL yes.

But don't let me distract you from your "teachers want drugged up kids" theory.

I don't blame the teachers. I blame the companies that make these drugs.

Please point out where I said that parents are to blame.
I merely stated I have never told a parent to have their kid tested for ADD/ADHD.

I was kidding. And I do blame the parents.

It's a myth created by paranoia and the pharmaceutical/medical industry.

No.

"ADHD" is part of the wider, disturbing trend of medicalising personality traits. Some kids are just excitable, some young people are whiny, etc. etc. To suggest that these things are medical conditions that can be cured through extensive pharmacy is very dangerous.

That's certainly one theory. I don't believe that telling someone who's an asshole that they have ODD, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, and sending them to counseling will really do anything.

It's real, it's just misdiagnosed a lot. Some people really do have it, others are on pills for it just because they love outdoors more than they love school.

Someone else posted this on another ADHD thread. On the left is a person without ADHD, on the right is a person with ADHD.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5a/Adhdbrain.gif

It exists. It probably is overdiagnosed, and I don't know if drugs are the most effective way of treating it, or even if it "should" be treated, but saying it dosn't exist is just... wrong.

Will something special happen if I believe in it? What if I decide not to believe in it? It is either an actual biological ailment, or it isn't. What I believe hardly matters; this isn't even an issue of faith.

I do believe in useless threads though.

Haha.

I couldn't care less about ADHD, but I love the poll options. Kudos. :p

He's achieved nothing but 4.0 GPAs ever since. he's also active in band, boyscouts and a Dungeons & Dragons club. He's going to an advanced school where he's taking classes ahead of his age bracket and doing extremely well.

...all without ever once taking a drug for ADD.

Looks he has AD&D to me... ;)

i know people who dont belive in it

AD&D is real. I know people who don't believe in it.:D

Anyway, I think I could qualify for that ADHD thingie, but I really don't care.

So basically, you've not a shred of evidence other than "I said so."
Again, given the vast amount of evidence from medical associations, psychiatric associations, pharmaceutical associations, and sufferers of the conditions you claim don't exist, from all corners of world, the position you defend is laughable.

Given that position, Kat, I could throw around my degree in Political Science and say that everyone who disagrees with me on the subject of politics is wrong, because they haven't studied it like I have. That'd screw over more than a handful of threads here, I think. Studying a subject doesn't automatically make you an expert, nor does it make your opinions correct.

And let's see...you cite medical associations, psychiatric associations, pharmaceutical associations -- all folks who have something to gain by pushing the notion that these are real disorders. Take a step back. Look at it critically. Until you do that, your blind acceptance of the existence of these "disorders" is laughable.

And let's see...you cite medical associations, psychiatric associations, pharmaceutical associations -- all folks who have something to gain by pushing the notion that these are real disorders. Take a step back. Look at it critically. Until you do that, your blind acceptance of the existence of these "disorders" is laughable.

I don't believe bones can be broken. I think that's just a myth perpetuated by doctors who all have something to gain by pushing it. Anyone who disagrees with me is just not looking at things critically because they have a blind acceptance which is simply laughable.

I don't believe bones can be broken. I think that's just a myth perpetuated by doctors who all have something to gain by pushing it. Anyone who disagrees with me is just not looking at things critically because they have a blind acceptance which is simply laughable.

Hysteria and Homosexuality were once considered 'disorders' but time has proven them wrong. That's the thing with mental disorders, they aren't as easy to prove as perhaps say broken bones, torn ligaments or anything else that affects the human body physically.

Hysteria and Homosexuality were once considered 'disorders' but time has proven them wrong. That's the thing with mental disorders, they aren't as easy to prove as perhaps say broken bones, torn ligaments or anything else that affects the human body physically.

Time didn't prove them wrong, psychologists did. But obviously, only because said psychologists had something to gain, because unlike anyone else, the only reason a psychologist does anything is to devilishly gain wealth and power.

Dude...I'm pretty sure most ADD drugs aren't narcotics.

They're all stimulants, as I mention in every thread dealing with this. People never listen though.

Hysteria and Homosexuality were once considered 'disorders' but time has proven them wrong. That's the thing with mental disorders, they aren't as easy to prove as perhaps say broken bones, torn ligaments or anything else that affects the human body physically.

It affects the brain visibly.

And let's see...you cite medical associations, psychiatric associations, pharmaceutical associations -- all folks who have something to gain by pushing the notion that these are real disorders. Take a step back. Look at it critically. Until you do that, your blind acceptance of the existence of these "disorders" is laughable.
I take it that your suggesting that there is a deep conspiracy between all these organizations to fudge some research, purposefully photoshop brain scans, and convince the thousands of doctors who diagnose AD/H/D to keep quiet just to make profit. Is that your position? Yes, no, close?

They're all stimulants, as I mention in every thread dealing with this. People never listen though.

I've used Ritalin has a recreational drug. I crushed up the tiny time-release beads in the capsule and took it with a little water. It's not as strong as Crystal Meth but it it was like having 4 shots of super-fuel espresso at once.

EDIT - to prove Cthlhu's point.

I've used Ritalin has a recreational drug. I crushed up the tiny time-release beads in the capsule and took it with a little water. It's not as strong as Crystal Meth but it it was like having 4 shots of super-fuel espresso at once.
Exactly.

With people who actually do have ADD, it has the exact opposite effect upon them, and will actually slow them down.

My mom once let me use her ADD to medicine to see if it would help me. Before I took it, I was normal, afterwards, I was drudging along barely awake. It was an awful feeling, and now I never want to take ADD medicine ever. Being that slow is an awful, awful feeling. I'm way too used to having my thoughts bounce around like ping pong balls to be able to slow down suddenly.

How does homosexuality affect the brain visibly? :p

I meant ADD. Sorry I didn't make myself clear.

It affects the brain visibly.
How does homosexuality affect the brain visibly? :p

I meant ADD. Sorry I didn't make myself clear.
I figured that's what you meant... ;)

How does homosexuality affect the brain visibly? :p

Difference in the size of the hypothalmus.

Of course it's real. It's every inch as real as Dyslexia or any other such condition. However, the diagnosis of any number of children whose parents simply can't accept that little Jimmy isn't perfect has led to its credibility being reduced.

IM BACK and i cant belave his is still up :soap:

It wouldn't have been except you JUST had to gravedig it.

Knock it off.