NationStates Jolt Archive

The title says it all, really. If you have engineered a political system, ideology, or set of beliefs, I'd love too read up on them. I myself have begun work on such an endeavor.

Either link me too where you have posted your ideology, explain it in a post, etc. Please do not plagiarize anybody, I only want too read up on what you have come up with. Go ahead and include your influences, and what motivated you too engineer a political belief.

Though I am certain this thread will lose out too:

OMfg drUnk striipwper etts nachhoos@@ !!

zomfg! :D :confused: :eek: :gundge: :upyours:

I'm fine with that, I'm simply looking for what NSers have done in this aspect of political beliefs.

(Expect a post later of my self-enigneered ideology.)

Well, I do not conform to any established ideology, but neither would I consider my own beliefs to be an ideology - they are simply my observations and analysis of the world, not any kind of doctrine.

Anarchy where no one encroaches on the free will of others. That should be everyones ideology.

Its pretty straight forward.

Whats the point in speaking in ideals, when almost all political ideals are impossible.

I developed a philosophical/mathematical trinity many years ago.
Zero
One
Infinity
Infinity corresponds to reductionism, understanding the whole through understanding its parts.
One corresponds to holism, the idea that everything is interconnected, part of a greater whole.
Zero corresponds to absurdism, because you can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

I have a lot of shit I came with alone, but they are way too complicated, crazy and lenghy to talk openly, specially when I´m sure no one would read them or think I´m fucking nuts.

Whats the point in speaking in ideals, when almost all political ideals are impossible.

Erm, this is not true for Democracy i'm afraid... America has yet too collapse.

Erm, this is not true for Democracy i'm afraid... America has yet too collapse.

Hence it's not an ideal, as it has already been achieved.

When I say ideals, I really mean utopian ideals, rather then practical ideals.

I have a lot of shit I came with alone, but they are way too complicated, crazy and lenghy to talk openly, specially when I´m sure no one would read them or think I´m fucking nuts.

I would love too be enlightened too the interworkings and potentionally intriguing products of your psyche, please, post.

I developed a philosophical/mathematical trinity many years ago.
Zero
One
Infinity
Infinity corresponds to reductionism, understanding the whole through understanding its parts.
One corresponds to holism, the idea that everything is interconnected, part of a greater whole.
Zero corresponds to absurdism, because you can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

Too ellaborate, i'd like more details, for future refrence.

Anarchy where no one encroaches on the free will of others. That should be everyones ideology.

Its pretty straight forward.

Certainly not. How would this mutual freedom be enforced? Would everyone be trusted too follow this one rule? What of those less fortunate by illness or class?

Hence it's not an ideal, as it has already been achieved.

When I say ideals, I really mean utopian ideals, rather then practical ideals.

Ah I see, such as the "Socialist Paradise?"

The government should function to set up a framework of laws that ensure a competitive market, step in where the market fails to provide a service efficiently, manage externalities, and prevent grossly illogical action by consumers. Democracy isn't very well suited for these purposes, I'd prefer a government to be run by professionals, something more like a city manager style government on a national, or better yet, world level.

Certainly not. How would this mutual freedom be enforced? Would everyone be trusted too follow this one rule? What of those less fortunate by illness or class?
I just wrote a big post explaining my point...then I hit a key and it got deleted. Anyway, rethinking things I suppose my ideology would be liberal/anarchist socialism.

We wouldn't really need any laws for the public (drunk driving, no killing etc. etc.) because no one would ever consider doing these things, it is a utopia after all.

Laws regarding trade/jobs would be more complicated however, because you may hurt someone without even realizing it. This would be taken care of by having the public vote on such laws.

You may wonder why we would even need a parliament/congress if this was the case. Well we need the parliament for deciding which laws should even be considered to be voted upon by the public.

Those are the bare basics of my revised ideology, everything else just falls into place.

Certainly not. How would this mutual freedom be enforced? Would everyone be trusted too follow this one rule? What of those less fortunate by illness or class?

If this was everyone's ideology, it wouldn't need to be enforced.

As a non-religious Christian, I do my best to sift Christ's message from the distortion of centuries of messengers with agendas. It's surprisingly easy, actually. :)

I came up with "Everyone else dies and I get their stuff"-ism last month while I was waiting for this idiot woman to find her boarding pass at the LaGuardia Airport security checkpoint.
Basically, it occured to me that the total happiness of the airport would be much higher were she dead and not slowing me and everyone else down. A while later, and now on my flight I noticed that the person sitting next to me had a much nicer laptop than I. I also noticed that he smelled terrible, and that everyone else trapped in that section of the airplane would be a lot happier were he not there.
So then, using basic inductive reasoning, I came to the realization that, were everyone else dead and I in possession of their stuff, everyone (by which I mean me, since there would be no one else left at this stage) would be much happier. Alas, everyone I have proposed this new philosophy to seems to take offense, and so my dreams of utopia may never be realized.

I came up with "Everyone else dies and I get their stuff"-ism last month while I was waiting for this idiot woman to find her boarding pass at the LaGuardia Airport security checkpoint.
Basically, it occured to me that the total happiness of the airport would be much higher were she dead and not slowing me and everyone else down. A while later, and now on my flight I noticed that the person sitting next to me had a much nicer laptop than I. I also noticed that he smelled terrible, and that everyone else trapped in that section of the airplane would be a lot happier were he not there.
So then, using basic inductive reasoning, I came to the realization that, were everyone else dead and I in possession of their stuff, everyone (by which I mean me, since there would be no one else left at this stage) would be much happier. Alas, everyone I have proposed this new philosophy to seems to take offense, and so my dreams of utopia may never be realized.

You mustn't let religious persecution deter you, Brother. *nod* :)

I came up with "Everyone else dies and I get their stuff"-ism last month while I was waiting for this idiot woman to find her boarding pass at the LaGuardia Airport security checkpoint.
Basically, it occured to me that the total happiness of the airport would be much higher were she dead and not slowing me and everyone else down. A while later, and now on my flight I noticed that the person sitting next to me had a much nicer laptop than I. I also noticed that he smelled terrible, and that everyone else trapped in that section of the airplane would be a lot happier were he not there.
So then, using basic inductive reasoning, I came to the realization that, were everyone else dead and I in possession of their stuff, everyone (by which I mean me, since there would be no one else left at this stage) would be much happier. Alas, everyone I have proposed this new philosophy to seems to take offense, and so my dreams of utopia may never be realized.
Where would you get the electricity to power the laptop?

Where would you get the electricity to power the laptop?

There are probably plenty of laptops around he can use until he finds some discarded solar panels. *nod*

So while he is finding out how to use solar panels, is he also operating his own farm during the winter?

Plently of canned goods around until he has time for that. *nod*

Edit: He's a New Yorker. He could probably survive two years on preserved hot dog vendor food. :D

There are probably plenty of laptops around he can use until he finds some discarded solar panels. *nod*
So while he is finding out how to use solar panels, is he also operating his own farm during the winter?

So while he is finding out how to use solar panels, is he also operating his own farm during the winter?
You appear to have missed the "and I get their stuff"-part of my social theory. I am quite sure that among the collected stuff of the world's population, I can find enough preserved, irradiated, and canned food to last me through the rest of my life.

I’ve always like the idea of abolishing prisons but then again everyone on here just calls that idea nutty so *shrug*

How about ‘anarchy apart from all the big government social programmes-ism’ you get all the cool things of socialism paid for by the police, military and immigration control thus right wing movements become flabbergasted and I can go to the doctors to feel hardcore :)

So while he is finding out how to use solar panels, is he also operating his own farm during the winter?

Ah but candy never goes off

I do think its ok to not have prisons, as long as you´re allowed to shot each and every single prisoner to death

I do think its ok to not have prisons, as long as you´re allowed to shot each and every single prisoner to death

Nah rehabilitation is where its at (though I’m British so if I had a gun I’d be a prisoner and so on so forth:p)

Intensive mental therapy and the realisation that the crime everyone cares about may in fact be unnatural FTW!

though I must say lets not burn this thread down with a debate mostly because its too much effort to argue with every NS’er

Nah rehabilitation is where its at (though I’m British so if I had a gun I’d be a prisoner and so on so forth:p)

Intensive mental therapy and the realisation that the crime everyone cares about may in fact be unnatural FTW!
though I must say lets not burn this thread down with a debate mostly because its too much effort to argue with every NS’er

Sounds like Clockwork Orange to me . . .

The government should function to set up a framework of laws that ensure a competitive market, step in where the market fails to provide a service efficiently, manage externalities, and prevent grossly illogical action by consumers. Democracy isn't very well suited for these purposes, I'd prefer a government to be run by professionals, something more like a city manager style government on a national, or better yet, world level.

These "professionals" would not be appointed by the citizenry I take it? A utopia that functions without the representation of the populace?

I came up with "Everyone else dies and I get their stuff"-ism last month while I was waiting for this idiot woman to find her boarding pass at the LaGuardia Airport security checkpoint.
Basically, it occured to me that the total happiness of the airport would be much higher were she dead and not slowing me and everyone else down. A while later, and now on my flight I noticed that the person sitting next to me had a much nicer laptop than I. I also noticed that he smelled terrible, and that everyone else trapped in that section of the airplane would be a lot happier were he not there.
So then, using basic inductive reasoning, I came to the realization that, were everyone else dead and I in possession of their stuff, everyone (by which I mean me, since there would be no one else left at this stage) would be much happier. Alas, everyone I have proposed this new philosophy to seems to take offense, and so my dreams of utopia may never be realized.

See "Nazi Facism"

I do think its ok to not have prisons, as long as you´re allowed to shot each and every single prisoner to death

Hmm substitute the cost of a fully developed and managed prison infrastracture with instead the cost of a cartridge for the skull of each felon.

The social theory of Huxian is one I doubt very many here will agree with. The majority of people on NS appear to be fans of socialism, anarchy, and ideals.

On the other hand, Huxian was built in a mountainous desert wasteland (see western China), and through hard work was built into a prosperous nation. In Huxian people are expected to forge their own destiny. The economy of this country is only enforced to the bare minimum by the government, and mostly only to keep the people safe (e.g. from pharmaceutical companies releasing dangerous medicines). Companies like Microsoft, who are often scorned for monopolizing an industry, would be praised in Huxian. The government will not limit industrial progress unless it endangers life or environment to an extreme. Also, imports and exports aren't taxed, if Huxian cannot keep pace in a certain industry, they should probably take up a different trade (e.g. American auto manufacturers).

Immigration is fine in Huxian, but immigrants should not expect any different treatment, if they don't assimilate into Huxianese society they simply won't survive. Huxian is often seen as a civil rights nightmare, but in truth, the people of Huxian have the right to achieve anything they can, but it's not the government's position to provide it for them, at least without a price (anyone can go to college, but nobody gets handouts, only loans are provided).

Political freedoms are seen as low in the eyes of NS, however all citizens have the right to vote and are encouraged to question their leaders. The system is parliamentary and their is a "King" or figurehead, and the king has final say in matters that would effect the pride of Huxian. While a Prime Minister can be voted out of office, the "King" rules for life (however this "King" is selected through an intense ritualistic series of tests rather than family lineage), and can intervene to a certain degree in political issues.

Essentially, the name of the game in Huxian is survival of the fittest.

Sounds like Clockwork Orange to me . . .

that would be awesome but I was hoping a couch (doctor included) and a cuddle, oh and a nice cup of tea would be nice (yes tea cures anything!)

These "professionals" would not be appointed by the citizenry I take it? A utopia that functions without the representation of the populace?

why would a utopia have voting when all the policies work :confused:

Erm utopian idelologies are nice for an afternoon of fanticizing, but what about practical doctrines?

Clarify the distinction.

I just wrote a big post explaining my point...then I hit a key and it got deleted. Anyway, rethinking things I suppose my ideology would be liberal/anarchist socialism.

We wouldn't really need any laws for the public (drunk driving, no killing etc. etc.) because no one would ever consider doing these things, it is a utopia after all.

Laws regarding trade/jobs would be more complicated however, because you may hurt someone without even realizing it. This would be taken care of by having the public vote on such laws.

You may wonder why we would even need a parliament/congress if this was the case. Well we need the parliament for deciding which laws should even be considered to be voted upon by the public.

Those are the bare basics of my revised ideology, everything else just falls into place.

Erm utopian idelologies are nice for an afternoon of fanticizing, but what about practical doctrines?

why would a utopia have voting when all the policies work :confused:


We cant assume your doctrine would fit too all. As said before, im looking for practical doctrines, that factor in all aspects of society. Utopias are fantasies, idealoloigies are a collection of thoughts that pertain and and implemented too society.

there was a poster on this forum a while ago who kept promising some sort of revolutionary new ideology that would blow the world away. he'd pop up every now and then to remind everyone to look out for it and then disappear under the radar again. i think their name began with M but i can't remember who it was. whatever happened to that revolution then, eh?

I just wrote a big post explaining my point...then I hit a key and it got deleted. Anyway, rethinking things I suppose my ideology would be liberal/anarchist socialism.

We wouldn't really need any laws for the public (drunk driving, no killing etc. etc.) because no one would ever consider doing these things, it is a utopia after all.

Laws regarding trade/jobs would be more complicated however, because you may hurt someone without even realizing it. This would be taken care of by having the public vote on such laws.

You may wonder why we would even need a parliament/congress if this was the case. Well we need the parliament for deciding which laws should even be considered to be voted upon by the public.

Those are the bare basics of my revised ideology, everything else just falls into place.

Shame it got deleted. The basic outline is ambiguous, but thats too be expected. Your overall definitions are a little cryptic, but I think I understand.

Hmm substitute the cost of a fully developed and managed prison infrastracture with instead the cost of a cartridge for the skull of each felon.

but then who will clean are sewers?!

Essentially, the name of the game in Huxian is survival of the fittest.

but then all of NSG would be dead :eek:

Clarify the distinction.

Practical doctrines take into account or "factor in" the human will equation, as in societies response too a thought. A Utopian thought assumes all will go well.

idealoloigies are a collection of thoughts that pertain and and implemented too society.

looking at the ideologies people have lets have as few in politics as possible then again even one is too much :(

there was a poster on this forum a while ago who kept promising some sort of revolutionary new ideology that would blow the world away. he'd pop up every now and then to remind everyone to look out for it and then disappear under the radar again. i think their name began with M but i can't remember who it was. whatever happened to that revolution then, eh?

the one that told us to remember 'expressionism' ?

looking at the ideologies people have lets have as few in politics as possible then again even one is too much :(



the one that told us to remember 'expressionism' ?

yeh! that's the one. who was that? and are they still about?

edit: just did a search, it was multiland. it seems he's dropped 'expressionism' for lesbian twins though.

but then who will clean are sewers?!


Mexicans?

looking at the ideologies people have lets have as few in politics as possible then again even one is too much :(



There has never been a bad idelology, just bad people behind them.

yeh! that's the one. who was that? and are they still about?

I think they got banned for making the same thread every time it got locked…then again I remembered expressionism so maybe where part of the revolution :eek:

Mexicans?

I thought American farmers where complaining that here not getting enough?

There has never been a bad idelology, just bad people behind them.

so what my country needs are lazy people who don't like all the hassle of doing anything that may spark an argument or cause lots of work :)

so what my country needs are lazy people who don't like all the hassle of doing anything that may spark an argument or cause lots of work :)

If you want your nation too be less competitive and improve the quality of life per capita, then yes.

We have far better communication technology than we have had in the past- much of our way of doing things is out dated- based on the idea that communicating with the populace is a tedious and difficult affair for large countries.

My biggest complaint with our current system is- well, not democratic enough, and not fluid enough.

I'd try to develop an ideology centred on the concepts of change and fluidity and responsiveness to the needs of local populations as well as the needs of the nation and humanity as a whole.

Essentially, I'd advocate a more organic state.

The social theory of Huxian is one I doubt very many here will agree with. The majority of people on NS appear to be fans of socialism, anarchy, and ideals.

On the other hand, Huxian was built in a mountainous desert wasteland (see western China), and through hard work was built into a prosperous nation. In Huxian people are expected to forge their own destiny. The economy of this country is only enforced to the bare minimum by the government, and mostly only to keep the people safe (e.g. from pharmaceutical companies releasing dangerous medicines). Companies like Microsoft, who are often scorned for monopolizing an industry, would be praised in Huxian. The government will not limit industrial progress unless it endangers life or environment to an extreme. Also, imports and exports aren't taxed, if Huxian cannot keep pace in a certain industry, they should probably take up a different trade (e.g. American auto manufacturers).

Immigration is fine in Huxian, but immigrants should not expect any different treatment, if they don't assimilate into Huxianese society they simply won't survive. Huxian is often seen as a civil rights nightmare, but in truth, the people of Huxian have the right to achieve anything they can, but it's not the government's position to provide it for them, at least without a price (anyone can go to college, but nobody gets handouts, only loans are provided).

Political freedoms are seen as low in the eyes of NS, however all citizens have the right to vote and are encouraged to question their leaders. The system is parliamentary and their is a "King" or figurehead, and the king has final say in matters that would effect the pride of Huxian. While a Prime Minister can be voted out of office, the "King" rules for life (however this "King" is selected through an intense ritualistic series of tests rather than family lineage), and can intervene to a certain degree in political issues.

Essentially, the name of the game in Huxian is survival of the fittest.

Bravo. I disagree with it in general, but bravo.

We have far better communication technology than we have had in the past- much of our way of doing things is out dated- based on the idea that communicating with the populace is a tedious and difficult affair for large countries.

My biggest complaint with our current system is- well, not democratic enough, and not fluid enough.

I'd try to develop an ideology centred on the concepts of change and fluidity and responsiveness to the needs of local populations as well as the needs of the nation and humanity as a whole.

Essentially, I'd advocate a more organic state.

Sounds like a progressive democratic-socialist bureacracy.

This is from the History section of my freewebs pages. I wanted to do something different.

The Commonalitarianism started as a group of free floating barges in the Paxarific Ocean in the 1930s.


It was a mix of refugees, free thinkers, and industrialists seeking refuge on the high seas. There was a wide mix of nationalities Ming, Cruonian, Americonie, Britonian, Ohyayian, and Paxarian. Many had come to escape the incessant warfare on the mainland. Their countries had collapsed from war, or they had escaped from corporate police states. Still others came from failed political or social experiments. It was the "wild west" of the seas. There was little order at first. Rogue industrialists took advantage of the chaos and lack of taxes to bring in automotive barges. The refugees formed a pool of cheap labor.



Then an event happened, a young boy, Milton Toast, was caught in the crossfire of rival gangs on the barges. This event led to the formation of the first civic self protection organizations. There were no police. The citizens began to form groups to take back the barges. These were not political groups at first. First these associations approached local business people, they received some help from the Cruon familiy, but little help from other families. It had gotten so bad that children as young as six were being recruited for rum running, bootlegging and murder ( This is the 1930s). The civic associations became desperate and approached the largest criminal syndicate, the Ming Syndicate to help them "take back the streets". The Ming Syndicate retains some of its heavy handed criminal syndicate tactics to this day.



Unexpectedly tired of the chaos, the Ming Syndicate agreed to help. Thus the barge wars started. This was a bloody period of three years where the civic associations and crime syndicates fought the barge gangs and smaller syndicates for control of the streets and businesses. The civic associations won. A few months after the wars, the civic associations decided to hold a week long summit. They called the summit, the "Citizens Assembly" to make life better and invited the Cruon Family and the Ming Syndicate. They were going to legitimize the criminal syndicates as large businesses.



During the time of the assembly, Bob Blithe, owner of the automotive barges decided to leave. He feared he might get government and taxation if he stayed. However, he made the mistake of not leaving quietly in the middle of the night. He told all the people who worked on the automotive barges they had to go home. Two thirds of the population worked there. They learned quickly that he planned to not come back.



The workers on the barges rioted overpowering the security guards, they took most of the barges, tossing many of the middle and senior management into the ocean. One of the barges went down in flames. Bob Blithe became enraged. He hired mercenaries to get the automotive barges back, telling them it would be easy to do. They arrived in several days. When the mercenaries tried to take the automotive barges, the civic protective associations and syndicates recently armed from the "barge wars" joined in driving off the mercenaries. Bob Blithe hired two more rounds of mercenaries to take back the barges. During this time, the "Citizens Assembly" (a combination of the criminal syndicates and civic protection associations) and automotive workers went around in press gangs and forced everyone between 16 to 30 to join in defending the barges. This became a permanent practice. Everyone is conscripted between the ages of 18 and 21. One of the barges was also converted into a light arms manufacturing plant.



In a fit of pride, the now formed “Citizens Assembly”, tried to nationalize the barges. However, the remaining technical union members and management were the only ones capable of running the factories. The citizens realized this and came up with a compromise, it would be partially government owned and partially union and management run. The government would own stock in the company and so would the union, management and workers. The first PPC-- Public Private Consortium, Dynamic Motors was born.



During one of the attacks a rocket hit a small fishing cooperative, a young man name Demian (an alternate version of R. Buckminster Fuller) convinced the fishery to build a metal dome of his design to protect the fishery. This became a popular design and it started to spread around the city. The Citizens Assembly awarded Demian an architectural scholarship for his achievement. He became obsessed with building a giant domed city while in architectural school. Demian was kicked out of school at the end of his final year because of this. He had proved himself to be an exceptional speaker and would occasionally take over classes with his oratory.



There was a short period of peace where the barges formed into a kind of direct democracy, an open forum-- (which people started calling the Commons) where the Citizens Assembly debated issues, Civic Protective Associations watched the streets, and the three large crime syndicates were legitimized as registered business enterprises; Cruon Commercial House, and Ming Commercial House, a civil defense force was created, and there was freedom to practice what you wanted.



Shortly after Demian returned a turning point in Commonalitarianism history occurred. The religious theocracy which the city was anchored off of changed. A new leader named Harbringer Rose came to power who denounced the Commonalitarianism as a "Cesspit of vice, a place of little virtue which should be burned to the ground." He threatened to bomb it out of existence. But, luckily the Commonalitarianism provided a large portion of the automobiles to the Theocracy of Fudd. The “Citizens Assembly” managed to convince Fudd that they would move out of their waters. The only place to go was into the high seas. The country on the right side of Fudd was the Military Slave State of Begone, and the country on the left was the Hippy Commune State of Oh Yah and neither one wanted them in their waters.



It was at this point that Demian intervened. In a fit of wild enthusiasm and demagoguery, he showed the Citizens Assembly his plans which he had been working on the last five years for changing barges into a giant domed city. It was a way they could survive out on the deep seas. After looking over the designs which turned out to be technically feasible (this is after all is an alternate version of R. Buckminster Fuller), they began building the city. Many of the assets, except for the automobile barges were sold off and they built a huge dome, sea wall, floating interlinked submersible air pods and other architectural supports to make the barges into a city, as well as the first fish farms and hydroponic gardens so they would have food on the open ocean. It was a monumental project, but Harbringer Rose, amazed by their industry let them finish it and leave.



The Long Peace-- 1950-1970



Because of their small size and travel into the deep ocean they were mostly ignored. This was a period in history called the “long peace”.



1950s

The first initiative of the Commonalitarianism was to survive. Aquaculture was developed extensively including fish farms, kelp farms, pearl culturing, and other marine industries. Also sea technology to survive out on the ocean became necessary, sea water purification systems, navigational technologies, and many other oceanic technologies were developed. Oil was a major problem. It simply was too costly to buy in massive quantities by the Commonalitarianism. In 1951, tidal generators and ocean wind farms were first built in the Commonalitarianism, in 1953 kelp ethanol was discovered by a Doctor Max Klinger. By 1955 major initiatives were in place to develop under sea mining, construction and submarine technologies. There was some trade for raw materials for automobiles produced on the barges. Also it served as a haven for offshore banking, high seas piracy, and other activities.



1960s

In the 1960s the Hippy Commune Ecotopian Country of Oh Yay was invaded by the Military Slave State of Begone. Many fled to the Commonalitarianism taking their assets with them. This led to the first state military conflict in the Commonalitarianism. The Begonians sent a small task force to attack the city. The only defenses the Commonalitarianism could muster were some tourist minisubs which they packed with high explosives, a few transport ferries with armored steel plates, and lots of pirate speedboats; pirates used the Commonalitarianism as a haven at the time. Begone expecting little resistance, had their task force overrun by over a hundred heavily armed pirate speedboats with over seven hundred men at night which boarded and took many of the ships. The other ships were blown up by several tourist minisubs packed with explosives. This established the Commonalitarianism navy. Begone became embroiled in a war with the Theocracy of Fudd and had to withdraw from attacking the Commonalitarianism again. The Begone Fudd war was to last 12 years and end in a stalemate.

The Ohyayians established a system of communal restaurants, cafes, and markets throughout the Commonalitarianism as well as increased the industry of "pharmaceuticals" which are not illegal in the Commonalitarianism. About this time the Sanctuary Movement was established to bring intellectuals and scientists from "repressive" regimes into the country. They stole scientists and intellectuals from Fudd and Begone. This is a private secretive effort not controlled by the government. It is not an armed secret government organization. A national shared television network for Civil Assembly auditoriums was built. The second sea going city of Commonalitarianism was built, Beauty which functioned as its own city state. The Ohyayians brought advanced ecological techniques as well; bioshelter ecological sewage treatment plants, advanced recycling technology, multistory integrated organic farms, mini intensive rice plots, and biospheric technologies.



1970s

Major breakthroughs in undersea mining and deep sea submersibles occur. Polymetallic sea nodule mining proves to be successful vastly increasing the metallic resources of the Commonalitarianism. This leads to a major industrial boom in sea construction. High pressure super dense hulls and underwater life support systems developed for submarines. The first undersea geothermal energy plant developed near volcanic vents. Advanced recycling grinders and metal shredder reprocessors developed.



1980s

Mass production of civilian cargo and transport submarines begins. Breakthroughs in electromagnetic research occurr leading to new materials and technology. The first alternative fuel and hybrid automobile technology for foreign export are developed. The Ohyayians and Americonies start the Ecotechnic movement a group focused on joining science with practical ecology. The first kelp biorefinery is built diversifying kelp production into kelp ethanol, kelp biopolymers, and other industrial materials.



1990s

1990-- An undersea ramjet is developed making very fast transportation between the different cities of the Commonalitarianism possible . 1995-- Wireless Internet Technology allows the Commonalitarianism to build an electronic commons to connect all allied city states together in a huge Virtual Private Network built for the common use of all citizens. This effectively interconnects the political process in all the floating cities in the Commonalitarianism. Further all political information is loaded onto the Virtual Private Network, effectively creating a second layer of government for citizens. In 1998 Trench Town in the Marianis trench is built, the first undersea town in Commonalitarianism. It is growing very fast . Rumors exist of large undersea military base.



2000

The Commonalitarianism begins a major trade initiative to open trade, scientific, and cultural exchange. They remain military isolationist with a strong bent towards trade. They establish sea routes for trade and begin to expand their global presence. They are involved in open trade as well as illegal trade with many countries. Clear panel solar technology developed.



2005 January - June

The VODAIS plague. A terrible plague erupted during the first six months of 2005. It ended up

Killing 21.5 million Commonalitarians. It was a blood born and sexual virus which rewrote the genetics of the carrier turning them into a different kind of humanity with stronger survival instincts, sexual drives, enhanced senses, incredible hunger and sensitivities to light and sound. The infected’s limbic drives forced them to spread the plague to other citizens. Hospitals were overrun, arcologies destroyed, and a tremendous death toll occurred. The cost in soldiers lives was tremendous over 350,000 soldiers died before the plague ended. Most of the soldiers 190,000 died trying to retake the jungle Isle of Beertopia which was ultimately firebombed because it couldn’t be retaken. Huge numbers of citizens succumbed before an airborn vaccine was introduced. Many could not survive the change or were killed by the military while they were changed. A total of five arcologies were ultimately unrecoverable. Two of the infected cities were rebuilt.

2007 January-November

A major recovery initiative is undertaken by the International Undersea Salvage and Recycling Cooperative to recover treasure for the Scandinvan government. This leads to a successful cultural exchange and expansion of The Museum of Recovered Objects.

2010 July- December

The International Space Alliance Incident. This incident forced the Commonalitarianism to reveal its space based weapons capability. It also was the first recorded incident of the Commonalitarianism using space based weapons. They used railgun satellites and 300 pound solid tungsten rockets launched at space based targets. It also led to the capture of a SSTO rocket capable of lifting 40 men to the moon in a single shot. As part of the International Space Alliance agreement the Commonalitarianism revealed several of its deep space based technologies, the Bell Ansible based on quantum tunneling and Bell’s theory of simultaneity, the regenerative recycling life support system, and the biospheric minifarm.



2020-2030


The Commonalitarianism built a major space station between the moon and mars. Huge amounts of space station modules were purchased from the American Privateers composed of rebuilt shuttle tanks. Also regolith materials and recycled hollowed out rocks from the newly started asteroid mining industry were used to build a floating industrial complex in space.

2035-2075

Amara Cruon is elected as part of the Blue Seas Party. She institutes an economic reform program introducing a Guaranteed Annual Income and Rising Income Through Cybernetic Homeostasis. This leads to a massive educational initiative and the first mass exodus from the Paxarific Ocean to a newly built asteroid colony and the space colony. This starts a trend of slow spread from the ocean colonies to the asteroid fields and oort clouds.

2075-2076

The first free mars war occurs. The Commonalitarianism smuggles in the designs and equipment to convert heavy machinery-- rivet guns, cutting lasers, hardshell space suits into weapons of war for the colonists to revolt against the corporations. The colonists seize the space elevator and several industrial facilities. The Commonalitarianism engages the orbital defenses and ships using the first microwave pumped plasma (ball lightning) warheads in a successful space engagement and high energy grasers.


2080-

The Commonalitarianism forms an alliance with Intracircumcordei to create The Greater Synopticon of Entirty/Final Encyclopedia, an advanced AI computer designed to provide an informational and education network for all Inracircumcordei citizens and Commonalitarianism citizens. The network will eventually become fully self-aware with a drive to continually absorb technology and information into its network and grow. It will create a goal for many Commonii to add continuously to this network.

2085-

The Burkhard Heim faster than light drive opens the Commonalitarianism to extrasolar exploration. This technology is shared with Intracircumcordei. The Scout Service is formed and self- replicating Von Neumann Probes are launched into deep space. This also speeds up the colonization of the inner solar system allowing the Commonalitarianism to spread quickly through the asteroid fields and the oort clouds of sol.


2110-


The first habitable empty world is discovered by the probes, Paradise, a world that is in the early mesozoic period. The atmosphere is breathable. Colonization of Paradise begins in 2115. The world slowly is colonized. Following the pattern in the Sol system, the colonists do not just colonize the planet, they colonize the oort clouds and asteroid fields of the Paradise system as well.

2115

49% of the oceans of Itzamna are purchased from British Londinium for colonization. Systematic colonization starts with the building of several barge cities, then an arcology city.


2120-

Discovery of the Negev II system. This is a system where there was a horrible war which wiped out all life. Most of the planets are destroyed and the star in the system is a cinder. A military testing base is built in Negev II to test out new technologies. Gravitic technologies advance significantly. Further research into the Heim Burkhard Field Drive develops new technology that will lead to gravitic repulsor fields, artificial gravity on space stations, and eventually wormhole technology with the help of Intracircumcordei.

2160-

The Paradise System is now fully colonized with a scout base, industrial asteroid facilities, military base, and capital city. Two new initiatives are introduced the colonization of Muse a jungle planet with a poisonous atmosphere, and the building of a secret deep space base called Preservation Station.

2200-

First contact with the Eternals is made. A brief military engagement occurs with the Sephrioth.


2220-

A trade delegation is sent to the Space Station Alpha Seven. There trade negotiations, salvage, and espionage are used to acquire new military technology from New Oxford and Peacekeeper Command.

2240- 2300


Trade negotiations are underway currently with the Gaian Ascendancy for new technology and resources. The Commonalitarianism joins The League of Free Worlds. Asfaltum establishes cooperative research agreement with Commonalitarianism.

2300- 2400

The great exodus occurs. The Commonalitarianism leaves earth and the sol system voluntarily. Huge paraterraformed asteroids are built with hyperspace capability to move the extrasolar colonies to the Paradise System. These later will roam the galaxy in a non-planet bound civilization. Others leave through wormhole junctions to settle paradise and Muse.

2400-- Current

Several paraterraformed asteroids leave for a new galaxy to explore and trade.

This is from the History section of my freewebs pages. I wanted to do something different.

The Commonalitarianism started as a group of free floating barges in the Paxarific Ocean in the 1930s.


It was a mix of refugees, free thinkers, and industrialists seeking refuge on the high seas. There was a wide mix of nationalities Ming, Cruonian, Americonie, Britonian, Ohyayian, and Paxarian. Many had come to escape the incessant warfare on the mainland. Their countries had collapsed from war, or they had escaped from corporate police states. Still others came from failed political or social experiments. It was the "wild west" of the seas. There was little order at first. Rogue industrialists took advantage of the chaos and lack of taxes to bring in automotive barges. The refugees formed a pool of cheap labor.



Then an event happened, a young boy, Milton Toast, was caught in the crossfire of rival gangs on the barges. This event led to the formation of the first civic self protection organizations. There were no police. The citizens began to form groups to take back the barges. These were not political groups at first. First these associations approached local business people, they received some help from the Cruon familiy, but little help from other families. It had gotten so bad that children as young as six were being recruited for rum running, bootlegging and murder ( This is the 1930s). The civic associations became desperate and approached the largest criminal syndicate, the Ming Syndicate to help them "take back the streets". The Ming Syndicate retains some of its heavy handed criminal syndicate tactics to this day.



Unexpectedly tired of the chaos, the Ming Syndicate agreed to help. Thus the barge wars started. This was a bloody period of three years where the civic associations and crime syndicates fought the barge gangs and smaller syndicates for control of the streets and businesses. The civic associations won. A few months after the wars, the civic associations decided to hold a week long summit. They called the summit, the "Citizens Assembly" to make life better and invited the Cruon Family and the Ming Syndicate. They were going to legitimize the criminal syndicates as large businesses.



During the time of the assembly, Bob Blithe, owner of the automotive barges decided to leave. He feared he might get government and taxation if he stayed. However, he made the mistake of not leaving quietly in the middle of the night. He told all the people who worked on the automotive barges they had to go home. Two thirds of the population worked there. They learned quickly that he planned to not come back.



The workers on the barges rioted overpowering the security guards, they took most of the barges, tossing many of the middle and senior management into the ocean. One of the barges went down in flames. Bob Blithe became enraged. He hired mercenaries to get the automotive barges back, telling them it would be easy to do. They arrived in several days. When the mercenaries tried to take the automotive barges, the civic protective associations and syndicates recently armed from the "barge wars" joined in driving off the mercenaries. Bob Blithe hired two more rounds of mercenaries to take back the barges. During this time, the "Citizens Assembly" (a combination of the criminal syndicates and civic protection associations) and automotive workers went around in press gangs and forced everyone between 16 to 30 to join in defending the barges. This became a permanent practice. Everyone is conscripted between the ages of 18 and 21. One of the barges was also converted into a light arms manufacturing plant.



In a fit of pride, the now formed “Citizens Assembly”, tried to nationalize the barges. However, the remaining technical union members and management were the only ones capable of running the factories. The citizens realized this and came up with a compromise, it would be partially government owned and partially union and management run. The government would own stock in the company and so would the union, management and workers. The first PPC-- Public Private Consortium, Dynamic Motors was born.



During one of the attacks a rocket hit a small fishing cooperative, a young man name Demian (an alternate version of R. Buckminster Fuller) convinced the fishery to build a metal dome of his design to protect the fishery. This became a popular design and it started to spread around the city. The Citizens Assembly awarded Demian an architectural scholarship for his achievement. He became obsessed with building a giant domed city while in architectural school. Demian was kicked out of school at the end of his final year because of this. He had proved himself to be an exceptional speaker and would occasionally take over classes with his oratory.



There was a short period of peace where the barges formed into a kind of direct democracy, an open forum-- (which people started calling the Commons) where the Citizens Assembly debated issues, Civic Protective Associations watched the streets, and the three large crime syndicates were legitimized as registered business enterprises; Cruon Commercial House, and Ming Commercial House, a civil defense force was created, and there was freedom to practice what you wanted.



Shortly after Demian returned a turning point in Commonalitarianism history occurred. The religious theocracy which the city was anchored off of changed. A new leader named Harbringer Rose came to power who denounced the Commonalitarianism as a "Cesspit of vice, a place of little virtue which should be burned to the ground." He threatened to bomb it out of existence. But, luckily the Commonalitarianism provided a large portion of the automobiles to the Theocracy of Fudd. The “Citizens Assembly” managed to convince Fudd that they would move out of their waters. The only place to go was into the high seas. The country on the right side of Fudd was the Military Slave State of Begone, and the country on the left was the Hippy Commune State of Oh Yah and neither one wanted them in their waters.



It was at this point that Demian intervened. In a fit of wild enthusiasm and demagoguery, he showed the Citizens Assembly his plans which he had been working on the last five years for changing barges into a giant domed city. It was a way they could survive out on the deep seas. After looking over the designs which turned out to be technically feasible (this is after all is an alternate version of R. Buckminster Fuller), they began building the city. Many of the assets, except for the automobile barges were sold off and they built a huge dome, sea wall, floating interlinked submersible air pods and other architectural supports to make the barges into a city, as well as the first fish farms and hydroponic gardens so they would have food on the open ocean. It was a monumental project, but Harbringer Rose, amazed by their industry let them finish it and leave.



The Long Peace-- 1950-1970



Because of their small size and travel into the deep ocean they were mostly ignored. This was a period in history called the “long peace”.



1950s

The first initiative of the Commonalitarianism was to survive. Aquaculture was developed extensively including fish farms, kelp farms, pearl culturing, and other marine industries. Also sea technology to survive out on the ocean became necessary, sea water purification systems, navigational technologies, and many other oceanic technologies were developed. Oil was a major problem. It simply was too costly to buy in massive quantities by the Commonalitarianism. In 1951, tidal generators and ocean wind farms were first built in the Commonalitarianism, in 1953 kelp ethanol was discovered by a Doctor Max Klinger. By 1955 major initiatives were in place to develop under sea mining, construction and submarine technologies. There was some trade for raw materials for automobiles produced on the barges. Also it served as a haven for offshore banking, high seas piracy, and other activities.



1960s

In the 1960s the Hippy Commune Ecotopian Country of Oh Yay was invaded by the Military Slave State of Begone. Many fled to the Commonalitarianism taking their assets with them. This led to the first state military conflict in the Commonalitarianism. The Begonians sent a small task force to attack the city. The only defenses the Commonalitarianism could muster were some tourist minisubs which they packed with high explosives, a few transport ferries with armored steel plates, and lots of pirate speedboats; pirates used the Commonalitarianism as a haven at the time. Begone expecting little resistance, had their task force overrun by over a hundred heavily armed pirate speedboats with over seven hundred men at night which boarded and took many of the ships. The other ships were blown up by several tourist minisubs packed with explosives. This established the Commonalitarianism navy. Begone became embroiled in a war with the Theocracy of Fudd and had to withdraw from attacking the Commonalitarianism again. The Begone Fudd war was to last 12 years and end in a stalemate.

The Ohyayians established a system of communal restaurants, cafes, and markets throughout the Commonalitarianism as well as increased the industry of "pharmaceuticals" which are not illegal in the Commonalitarianism. About this time the Sanctuary Movement was established to bring intellectuals and scientists from "repressive" regimes into the country. They stole scientists and intellectuals from Fudd and Begone. This is a private secretive effort not controlled by the government. It is not an armed secret government organization. A national shared television network for Civil Assembly auditoriums was built. The second sea going city of Commonalitarianism was built, Beauty which functioned as its own city state. The Ohyayians brought advanced ecological techniques as well; bioshelter ecological sewage treatment plants, advanced recycling technology, multistory integrated organic farms, mini intensive rice plots, and biospheric technologies.



1970s

Major breakthroughs in undersea mining and deep sea submersibles occur. Polymetallic sea nodule mining proves to be successful vastly increasing the metallic resources of the Commonalitarianism. This leads to a major industrial boom in sea construction. High pressure super dense hulls and underwater life support systems developed for submarines. The first undersea geothermal energy plant developed near volcanic vents. Advanced recycling grinders and metal shredder reprocessors developed.



1980s

Mass production of civilian cargo and transport submarines begins. Breakthroughs in electromagnetic research occurr leading to new materials and technology. The first alternative fuel and hybrid automobile technology for foreign export are developed. The Ohyayians and Americonies start the Ecotechnic movement a group focused on joining science with practical ecology. The first kelp biorefinery is built diversifying kelp production into kelp ethanol, kelp biopolymers, and other industrial materials.



1990s

1990-- An undersea ramjet is developed making very fast transportation between the different cities of the Commonalitarianism possible . 1995-- Wireless Internet Technology allows the Commonalitarianism to build an electronic commons to connect all allied city states together in a huge Virtual Private Network built for the common use of all citizens. This effectively interconnects the political process in all the floating cities in the Commonalitarianism. Further all political information is loaded onto the Virtual Private Network, effectively creating a second layer of government for citizens. In 1998 Trench Town in the Marianis trench is built, the first undersea town in Commonalitarianism. It is growing very fast . Rumors exist of large undersea military base.



2000

The Commonalitarianism begins a major trade initiative to open trade, scientific, and cultural exchange. They remain military isolationist with a strong bent towards trade. They establish sea routes for trade and begin to expand their global presence. They are involved in open trade as well as illegal trade with many countries. Clear panel solar technology developed.



2005 January - June

The VODAIS plague. A terrible plague erupted during the first six months of 2005. It ended up

Killing 21.5 million Commonalitarians. It was a blood born and sexual virus which rewrote the genetics of the carrier turning them into a different kind of humanity with stronger survival instincts, sexual drives, enhanced senses, incredible hunger and sensitivities to light and sound. The infected’s limbic drives forced them to spread the plague to other citizens. Hospitals were overrun, arcologies destroyed, and a tremendous death toll occurred. The cost in soldiers lives was tremendous over 350,000 soldiers died before the plague ended. Most of the soldiers 190,000 died trying to retake the jungle Isle of Beertopia which was ultimately firebombed because it couldn’t be retaken. Huge numbers of citizens succumbed before an airborn vaccine was introduced. Many could not survive the change or were killed by the military while they were changed. A total of five arcologies were ultimately unrecoverable. Two of the infected cities were rebuilt.

2007 January-November

A major recovery initiative is undertaken by the International Undersea Salvage and Recycling Cooperative to recover treasure for the Scandinvan government. This leads to a successful cultural exchange and expansion of The Museum of Recovered Objects.

2010 July- December

The International Space Alliance Incident. This incident forced the Commonalitarianism to reveal its space based weapons capability. It also was the first recorded incident of the Commonalitarianism using space based weapons. They used railgun satellites and 300 pound solid tungsten rockets launched at space based targets. It also led to the capture of a SSTO rocket capable of lifting 40 men to the moon in a single shot. As part of the International Space Alliance agreement the Commonalitarianism revealed several of its deep space based technologies, the Bell Ansible based on quantum tunneling and Bell’s theory of simultaneity, the regenerative recycling life support system, and the biospheric minifarm.



2020-2030


The Commonalitarianism built a major space station between the moon and mars. Huge amounts of space station modules were purchased from the American Privateers composed of rebuilt shuttle tanks. Also regolith materials and recycled hollowed out rocks from the newly started asteroid mining industry were used to build a floating industrial complex in space.

2035-2075

Amara Cruon is elected as part of the Blue Seas Party. She institutes an economic reform program introducing a Guaranteed Annual Income and Rising Income Through Cybernetic Homeostasis. This leads to a massive educational initiative and the first mass exodus from the Paxarific Ocean to a newly built asteroid colony and the space colony. This starts a trend of slow spread from the ocean colonies to the asteroid fields and oort clouds.

2075-2076

The first free mars war occurs. The Commonalitarianism smuggles in the designs and equipment to convert heavy machinery-- rivet guns, cutting lasers, hardshell space suits into weapons of war for the colonists to revolt against the corporations. The colonists seize the space elevator and several industrial facilities. The Commonalitarianism engages the orbital defenses and ships using the first microwave pumped plasma (ball lightning) warheads in a successful space engagement and high energy grasers.


2080-

The Commonalitarianism forms an alliance with Intracircumcordei to create The Greater Synopticon of Entirty/Final Encyclopedia, an advanced AI computer designed to provide an informational and education network for all Inracircumcordei citizens and Commonalitarianism citizens. The network will eventually become fully self-aware with a drive to continually absorb technology and information into its network and grow. It will create a goal for many Commonii to add continuously to this network.

2085-

The Burkhard Heim faster than light drive opens the Commonalitarianism to extrasolar exploration. This technology is shared with Intracircumcordei. The Scout Service is formed and self- replicating Von Neumann Probes are launched into deep space. This also speeds up the colonization of the inner solar system allowing the Commonalitarianism to spread quickly through the asteroid fields and the oort clouds of sol.


2110-


The first habitable empty world is discovered by the probes, Paradise, a world that is in the early mesozoic period. The atmosphere is breathable. Colonization of Paradise begins in 2115. The world slowly is colonized. Following the pattern in the Sol system, the colonists do not just colonize the planet, they colonize the oort clouds and asteroid fields of the Paradise system as well.

2115

49% of the oceans of Itzamna are purchased from British Londinium for colonization. Systematic colonization starts with the building of several barge cities, then an arcology city.


2120-

Discovery of the Negev II system. This is a system where there was a horrible war which wiped out all life. Most of the planets are destroyed and the star in the system is a cinder. A military testing base is built in Negev II to test out new technologies. Gravitic technologies advance significantly. Further research into the Heim Burkhard Field Drive develops new technology that will lead to gravitic repulsor fields, artificial gravity on space stations, and eventually wormhole technology with the help of Intracircumcordei.

2160-

The Paradise System is now fully colonized with a scout base, industrial asteroid facilities, military base, and capital city. Two new initiatives are introduced the colonization of Muse a jungle planet with a poisonous atmosphere, and the building of a secret deep space base called Preservation Station.

2200-

First contact with the Eternals is made. A brief military engagement occurs with the Sephrioth.


2220-

A trade delegation is sent to the Space Station Alpha Seven. There trade negotiations, salvage, and espionage are used to acquire new military technology from New Oxford and Peacekeeper Command.

2240- 2300


Trade negotiations are underway currently with the Gaian Ascendancy for new technology and resources. The Commonalitarianism joins The League of Free Worlds. Asfaltum establishes cooperative research agreement with Commonalitarianism.

2300- 2400

The great exodus occurs. The Commonalitarianism leaves earth and the sol system voluntarily. Huge paraterraformed asteroids are built with hyperspace capability to move the extrasolar colonies to the Paradise System. These later will roam the galaxy in a non-planet bound civilization. Others leave through wormhole junctions to settle paradise and Muse.

2400-- Current

Several paraterraformed asteroids leave for a new galaxy to explore and trade.


"Lord of the Flies" anyone?

Social:
Whatever. So long as it doesn't hurt any human being who has been born other than the person who does it, it's okay. There will be gun control though.

Economic:
Small military budget, huge social welfare and education budget, universal health care.

Other: Government officials are employees of the people. Therefore, the people have access to them. Government officials must allow anyone to come in and talk to them unless they are already in a meeting.

I think society should focus on technological enhancement of human abilities as well as the cultivation of strong AI. By doing this, we can not only accelerate technological advancement but also prevent the existential risks associated with relying on a single planet for our survival. Seeding the universe with human or human-created intelligence will guarantee that our civilization will survive and prosper, achieving levels of development we can only dream of now. However, this change will happen, and it will happen in my lifetime; sadly, I can't guarantee that the older members of our society will see that day, but even so their contributions to it will not be forgotten.

However, there is a possibility it may ultimately rend our civilization in two, one group leading in to the future while the other cowers in ignorance and superstition. But then again, all changes have been this way; there have always been people who prefer the security of ignorance, and they have always been ultimately defeated and swept to the wayside.

However, this change will happen, and it will happen in my lifetime;
A bit over-optimistic, aren't you?

there have always been people who prefer the security of ignorance

And people who'd prefer not to mess with their minds and bodies.

A bit over-optimistic, aren't you?

Not exceptionally; barring a major devastating war it's pretty much a given. I've got easily 60-70 years left naturally, to say nothing of current and future developments in medical technology. The accelerating pace of technological innovation over time means that the technological changes from 2007-2067 will be significantly greater than from 1947-2007. Even that period was massive in its technological changes, with the average person today possessing technology that the world's richest men and most powerful governments couldn't even remotely consider at that time.

The rate of change is approaching staggering levels; consider the fact that the cost of 1 GFLOPS of raw calculating power has fallen 30,000 fold in the past 10 years, and is currently less than $1. Raw computational power is enabling us to simulate more and more, and those simulations are expanding the rate at which we push those fields further.

And people who'd prefer not to mess with their minds and bodies.

Yes, but the people you speak of who prefer not to don't stop others from doing so. They are equally as free not to change themselves as others are to do so; if anything, that may be valuable in that it preserves some aspects of purely human culture in a world where it will be forced to truly compete with other organisms' cultures for the first time in its history. Not everyone will alter themselves, nor should everyone alter themselves.

There has to be that freedom to choose; anything less would be tyranny. They appraise the risks and rewards and make a rational decision not to; I can't fault them for that even if I wonder at the reasoning behind it.

Bravo. I disagree with it in general, but bravo.

Haha thanks, our nation is based around the fox as it's central symbol, and i figured since foxes are survivors, our nation should be too. Also our terrain was pretty barren at the start, so i kind of took the whole survivalist idea and ran with it.

The capitalism thing was sort of a freak accident, i had originally intended the nation to be communist (anyone that looks at my flag can tell), but after answering so many issues i noticed that i had no tax rate and an extremely capitalist society. First nation, ya probably know how it goes.

Me political and philosophical beliefs seem, to me at least, to be fairly 'self-engineered'.

By that I mean that I don't safely fit into any political or philosohical box. I'll agree with one thing from one system, and something else from another.

Makes it difficult to have any one set of ideas written down, because I don't have anything to refer to for what I agree with. I basically just say what I think at the time, even if it's different from a few months ago. There are a few things I know I'll never shift on, though, and there are a few fundamentals that never change, but the rest is open to modification.

So I don't have a name for it, or any written beliefs. That's just me.

Social:
Whatever. So long as it doesn't hurt any human being who has been born other than the person who does it, it's okay. There will be gun control though.

Economic:
Small military budget, huge social welfare and education budget, universal health care.

Other: Government officials are employees of the people. Therefore, the people have access to them. Government officials must allow anyone to come in and talk to them unless they are already in a meeting.

Eh, a bit too absolute for my tastes, although I do like the intentions behind it all.

Just as an aside, I work for the local government in a way, and trust me, there are a lot of people that make a point to be heard more often than others, and many of these people have absolutely nothing worthwhile to say.

Not exceptionally; barring a major devastating war it's pretty much a given. I've got easily 60-70 years left naturally, to say nothing of current and future developments in medical technology.
That is true. I recall reading in the Focus that soon enough life-extending technologies would be available (and in fact are available, but require much more testing), alongside anti-ageing ones. I am pretty sure this will occur within our lifetime, so perhaps we'll live long enough to see some rather cool technological advances, as you say.

Yes, but most of the people who prefer not to don't stop others from doing so.

Of course they won't.

And within fifty years there will be almost none of them left. Not because the "superstitions" will have gone, or at least not entirely; because an unenhanced person will always be marginalized and deprived in a society dominated by the enhanced.

The "individual choice" here is illusory. Either we go with it as a society or we don't.

Just as it is for a person who hates modern education in today's economy.

They appraise the risks and rewards and make a rational decision not to. I can't fault them for that even if I wonder at the reasoning behind it.

It's for the same kind of reason that most of us wouldn't want to be under someone else's control, even if all our desires were satisfied.

Sure, we're "better off" in a certain sense - but at the cost of part of that which is essential to ourselves.

That is true. I recall reading in the Focus that soon enough life-extending technologies would be available (and in fact are available, but require much more testing), alongside anti-ageing ones. I am pretty sure this will occur within our lifetime, so perhaps we'll live long enough to see some rather cool technological advances, as you say.

I hesitate to use the term "immortality" because it carries a sense of arrogance and hubris that I don't like, but I do believe it will be entirely possible and affordable for people to achieve an indefinite lifespan once the processes behind age-related degeneration are understood and are reversible. We will be masters of our own lives, and I think that's a freedom all living beings deserve. Nobody should die if they don't want to.

Some of us will go a step further and pursue nonbiological indefinite lifespan, integrating ourselves in to machines for further benefits beyond biological IL; personally, I want to do this so I can safely travel in space or other hostile environments and to enhance my mind so I can learn more advanced things without worrying about the limits imposed by biology.

Of course they won't.

And within fifty years there will be almost none of them left. Not because the "superstitions" will have gone, or at least not entirely; because an unenhanced person will always be marginalized and deprived in a society dominated by the enhanced.

But that's the way things always are; those who wish to remain in a given society have to adapt to it or face marginalization. Even so, there are societies that function perfectly well without the intrusion of technology; I see no reason why unenhanced people couldn't build their own culture according to their own ideas, just like hunter-gatherer or nomadic cultures resist the influence of globalization and modern technology.

The only way it would fail is if they tried to directly compete with the enhanced. They would have to find their own niche and develop their culture around that principle. Exploitation of the unenhanced culture in this situation is no less wrong than exploitation of any other group.

The "individual choice" here is illusory. Either we go with it as a society or we don't.

But ultimately the question boils down to what will benefit that society the most. Enhancement will enable us to achieve a lot more with our lives, and will provide a route for people to maximize their potential far beyond what was given to them through the random chance of genetic reproduction.

If everyone has the freedom to be what they want, rather than what nature provides them with, I think we will benefit immensely. There's no reason why a person should have an advantage just because they were lucky enough to get a good set of genes from their parents.

It's for the same kind of reason that most of us wouldn't want to be under someone else's control, even if all our desires were satisfied.

Sure, we're "better off" in a certain sense - but at the cost of part of that which is essential to ourselves.

But you're not under someone else's control; all you're doing is replacing biological substrates for the self with artificial ones for new possibilities. It's not much different than your cells replacing themselves or anything else; the continuity of experience would be there, so in my eyes there is no real difference. The philosophical idea of humanity is far more than the biological parts that make us up.

A person with prosthetic legs is no less human than one with two biological legs, and I see no reason why a person with an artificial body and brain would be any different; where is there a line that demarcates the point at which a person is no longer human? If they feel, remember, learn and think, and share in our cultures and experiences it is meaningless to me what they are made of or how they function.

But that's the way things always are;

Yes, alleged progress tends to make its mark in all societies.

Even so, there are societies that function perfectly well without the intrusion of technology; I see no reason why unenhanced people couldn't build their own culture according to their own ideas, just like hunter-gatherer or nomadic cultures resist the influence of globalization and modern technology.

They are dying. They will continue to die.

And unlike those tribes, we are talking about people within the same society.

The only way it would fail is if they tried to directly compete with the enhanced.

They would exist on the same planet, in the same global society, in constant contact.

Try or not, it will happen.

Try to get a modern human to live a hunter-gatherer lifestyle; it will never happen. Because there is a fundamental incompatibality? Hardly; genetically we are nearly indistinguishable. Because that's the way culture works.

Enhancement will enable us to achieve a lot more with our lives, and will provide a route for people to maximize their potential far beyond what was given to them through the random chance of genetic reproduction.

"Achieve" what? "Maximize" what?

Perhaps we will live in planet-spanning mansions with a dozen lightspeed cars in the moon-sized garage? Does that really move you? Because if it does, explain; I fail to understand how it gets us anywhere at all.

But you're not under someone else's control;

I said "same KIND of reason." Not "same reason."

all you're doing is replacing biological substrates for the self with artificial ones for new possibilities. It's not much different than your cells replacing themselves or anything else; the continuity of experience would be there, so in my eyes there is no real difference.

But this isn't just replacement. It's "enhancement" - it's fundamentally changing someone to suit some conception of "good."

It's quite literally being turned into someone else - becoming a different kind of person. And not all of us are so eager to jump into that territory.

Yes, alleged progress tends to make its mark in all societies.

For better or for worse.

They are dying. They will continue to die.

Is that due to technology or is it due to human greed and exploitation? Those things happen regardless of technology.

And unlike those tribes, we are talking about people within the same society.

And societies change and break apart in to new ones over time; ultimately, those who can't change within a society will either have to leave or they will be forced to take part in it by economic or social necessity.

They would exist on the same planet, in the same global society, in constant contact.

Try or not, it will happen.

Yes, and we'll have to deal with that.

Try to get a modern human to live a hunter-gatherer lifestyle; it will never happen. Because there is a fundamental incompatibality? Hardly; genetically we are nearly indistinguishable. Because that's the way culture works.

If people don't want to adapt to changes, they will have to find something else that suits them. They'll need to find a societal model that works and develop it on their own; if it can succeed, it will and if it doesn't there is little they can do but try to survive those changes.

"Achieve" what? "Maximize" what?

Perhaps we will live in planet-spanning mansions with a dozen lightspeed cars in the moon-sized garage? Does that really move you? Because if it does, explain; I fail to understand how it gets us anywhere at all.

Maybe increase their mental abilities to remember more things, or study advanced concepts that the human brain is limited in its understanding of, or learn and record their observations. Perhaps they could become masters of a craft, or develop their own to suit their own interests. They could travel to places previously inaccessible, play new games and sports, develop new forms of art and expression using enhanced senses.

There are so many new things that could be achieved by a person with enhanced abilities that go far beyond desire for material wealth.

But this isn't just replacement. It's "enhancement" - it's fundamentally changing someone to suit some conception of "good."

But if it's my conception of what is good, what is wrong with that? I mean, we're not talking engineering children in the womb to be smarter, or stronger, or more attractive or whatever; these are people making the choice of what to do to their bodies.

It's quite literally being turned into someone else; becoming a different kind of person. And not all of us are so eager to jump into that territory.

We already do this, though. We enhance ourselves, albeit not with technology, to suit our conception of what is good; people exercise to look more attractive and/or live healthier lives, take medicines to treat diseases and pain, do mental exercises to improve memory and cognition, and so on. Many of these things push our capabilities beyond what they would have been without them, and people that do them have advantages over those who don't.

I mean, human enhancement is one of the driving points behind technology itself, and it has been a part of our culture for as long as mankind has existed. Myths like Galatea and Pygmalion, the story of Achilles, the search for the Fountain of Youth, wizards using magical spells, brewing potions and conjuring spirits for their powers, all of these share a common desire to gain access to forbidden knowledge, youth, strength, love, wealth, even literally anything else in existence.

People throughout the ages have always wanted to be more than whatever they've been born with, to be able to have experiences above the mundane and to fulfill their dreams. Now that we can do it, and it is possible for us to provide this opportunity to as many people as possible, how can we deny this common cultural thread?

By that I mean that I don't safely fit into any political or philosohical box. I'll agree with one thing from one system, and something else from another.



I think that applies too everyone here, too a certain degree.

Is that due to technology or is it due to human greed and exploitation?

It's not due to technology in and of itself. It's due to the nature of social progress with technology.

As for greed and exploitation, you will never get rid of those.

And societies change and break apart in to new ones over time.

And the poor of our society have broken off? Of any society?

If people don't want to adapt to changes, they will have to find something else that suits them.

They'll adapt.

They'll adapt because they're social creatures, like all of us. Not because they want to. We see this all the time today.

Theoretically, of course, they can break off and form their own little commune on some tropical island or whatever... but we are not abstracted individuals. We are human beings, we have social ties, we live in society and we are bound to it.

Maybe increase their mental abilities to remember more things,

Increased memory? What is that good for?

I have an excellent memory; it doesn't make me happy, or free. Maybe more successful than otherwise. I can get away with more laziness. But that is because I have a productivity quota in the first place, not because of an intrinsic feature of the trait.

or study advanced concepts that the human brain is limited in its understanding of,

Complex thought is good, but not for what it does; rather, for the internal goods of the process.

I can study philosophy now. Perhaps if you enhanced my mind, my comprehension would increase; would my enjoyment? I fail to see why.

or learn and record their observations.

Both are possible in today's world.

Perhaps they could become masters of a craft, or develop their own to suit their own interests.

And they cannot now?

They could travel to places previously inaccessible,

There is a world full of beauty and wonder right here.

The fact that our society prefers to keep us in suburbs and cities doesn't change that.

play new games and sports, develop new forms of art and expression using enhanced senses.

Look, I'm getting what you're saying. I understand that new forms of cultural expression will arise; cultural expression on a higher level.

I'm questioning whether it will actually make us any happier, or freer, or better off in a solid, meaningful sense - or if it is just another example of "more and bigger" in another sphere.

Catholic philosophers in particular have long spoken of a natural law written by God into human nature - a natural inclination towards a certain end.

Our behaviors, of course, don't always conform to these norms, but the point is that they would if we truly understood ourselves and had the willpower to carry it through. And as long as we violate it, as long as we subject ourselves to the whims of the moment, genuine fulfillment and flourishing is denied to us.

There is no God and there is no divine law written into human nature. But there is evolution, and there is a natural set of desires and goods that it has written into our natures (sex and taste for certain foods being the obvious examples, but there is no reason to believe that it stops there). We don't conform to it, of course, not because of free will, or Original Sin, but because we live in an unnatural society with an unnatural culture that necessarily curbs our natural desires and inclinations.

You push us to find satisfaction by searching further, by turning ourselves into supermen... but I doubt that satisfaction can be found there. I think it is another step in the wild goose chase of productivity, for the same reason that all the other steps have been: instead of fixing what we have done to ourselves, we instead try to "fix" everything else. Even if it's not broken.

But if it's my conception of what is good, what is wrong with that?

Nothing at all. Is it really? I don't mean to sound arrogant or patronizing if I do... I honestly doubt that any of us, including myself, can be sure we really know what is good, what will make us happy and satisfied, at all. Certainly most of us are not very good at actually going about it.

That does not excuse restricting freedom. But it necessitates exercising it with care.

We already do this, though. We enhance ourselves, albeit not with medicine to suit our conception of what is good; people exercise to look more attractive and/or live healthier lives,

Exercise is perfectly natural; it is self-improvement, using our own natural capabilities to enhance ourselves.

This is qualitatively different from the alternatives.

take medicines to treat diseases and pain,

Here there is perhaps merely a difference of degree... but a substantial one nonetheless.

Many of these things push our capabilities beyond what they would have been without them, and people that do them have advantages over those who don't.

True, but the beauty of natural competition is that usually it does not leave people behind, or even force them to conform. The spheres are broad, and usually people can find things that they enjoy and are also good at, and can be content.

Enhancement - genetic or mechanical - means that we can make anyone excel at everything. There is no room for those left behind.

I mean, human enhancement is one of the driving points behind technology itself, and it has been a part of our culture for as long as mankind has existed. Myths like Galatea and Pygmalion, the story of Achilles, the search for the Fountain of Youth, wizards using magical spells, brewing potions and conjuring spirits for their powers, all of these share a common desire to gain access to forbidden knowledge, youth, strength, love, wealth, even literally anything else in existence.

Yes, and for centuries people believed that God would grant them an afterlife in which they would have immortal life (if they obeyed, anyway.)

Marx said that religion is the soul of soulless conditions. Broadly, he was right. We must lack before we crave. Why do we lack in the first place? That is the real question. "Because we still don't have enough" doesn't seem a good answer to me; if it were true, then we should be in utopia by now.

My "self-engineered" ideology is what I call Authentic Minnesotan Nationalism.

I believe in a natural order. All people, being equal in their human essence, should be governed by a single law as pertains to that inherent nature. From this, we can extrapolate that there will be a single code of conduct that binds human beings by their very existence. Seeing as how humans act towards their certain ends with certain means so as to attain happiness (broadly defined), no human being has a right that supersedes this pursuit- otherwise, human beings would not be equal in essence. The rights extrapolated from this code of conduct are

Life, the right to one's body as a tool (mean).
Liberty, the right to use one's body (use of means towards end.)
Property, the right to what is acquired to achieve happiness (end.)

Now, since human beings are inherently purposeful creatures that use means towards ends, and are also equal in essence, there is no need for one specific class to administer this law. All people, being equal in essence, should be able to use their means towards the end of upholding law. Thus, there is no need for government.

Since individuals are not atomistic but rather social beings, a natural order would necessarily entail interaction between people. The basic unit of a natural order, after the individual, would be the household, a voluntary institution based upon a mix of biology and practicality (husband and wife take on certain roles, parents tend to children, young tend to the old.) All other associations would be based upon the household, whether they be church, community, city, etc. The end result would likely be rural villages with relatively homogeneous, linked populations, and cities as the hubs of interaction between said populations. Large scale economic planning would depend upon voluntary interactions between villages and cities, which are basically the voluntary association of a variety of households, which in turn are the voluntary association of individuals.

The rights extrapolated from this code of conduct are

Life, the right to one's body as a tool (mean).
Liberty, the right to use one's body (use of means towards end.)
Property, the right to what is acquired to achieve happiness (end.)

What, exactly, is it about other human beings that obligates me to respect these rights of theirs?

The title says it all, really. If you have engineered a political system, ideology, or set of beliefs, I'd love too read up on them. I myself have begun work on such an endeavor.

Either link me too where you have posted your ideology, explain it in a post, etc. Please do not plagiarize anybody, I only want too read up on what you have come up with. Go ahead and include your influences, and what motivated you too engineer a political belief.

Though I am certain this thread will lose out too:

OMfg drUnk striipwper etts nachhoos@@ !!

zomfg! :D :confused: :eek: :gundge: :upyours:

I'm fine with that, I'm simply looking for what NSers have done in this aspect of political beliefs.

(Expect a post later of my self-enigneered ideology.)

In 8th grade I was an exterminati communist

A year later I became a form of fascist that hates the left obviously and dislikes Southern Baptists for their disdain of free will.

Sorry about my dying thread that was a late April fools, having me pull one a week later than the actual date is the last thing anyone would expect. ;)

However before you go "eeewww your fascist" you must consider that my version of fascsim was shamanistic in a Christian way. I tested the political ideology via my nationstate. My policies on scientific advancement and attempts to create a society where many scourges that plagued others would be cured. My nation as a result was top in everything, military, education, law enforcement, science and tech, economy you name it.

shamanistic in a Christian way

:confused:

In 8th grade I was an exterminati communist

A year later I became a form of fascist that hates the left obviously and dislikes Southern Baptists for their disdain of free will.

Sorry about my dying thread that was a late April fools, having me pull one a week later than the actual date is the last thing anyone would expect. ;)

However before you go "eeewww your fascist" you must consider that my version of fascsim was shamanistic in a Christian way. I tested the political ideology via my nationstate. My policies on scientific advancement and attempts to create a society where many scourges that plagued others would be cured. My nation as a result was top in everything, military, education, law enforcement, science and tech, economy you name it.

And i'm guessing last in freedom and liberty?

And i'm guessing last in freedom and liberty?

My ideology focused on advancing and self betterment. So obviously freedom and liberty were not an option since everyone had to live by a strict system which ensured the nation thrived.

BTW I have another nation that is the more democratic version of South Lizasauria.

My ideology focused on advancing and self betterment. So obviously freedom and liberty were not an option since everyone had to live by a strict system which ensured the nation thrived.

BTW I have another nation that is the more democratic version of South Lizasauria.

Do you still have Facist convictions?

Do you still have Facist convictions?

In some areas, in others I've loosened up a little. Why do you ask?

In some areas, in others I've loosened up a little. Why do you ask?

I have been intrigued in the Facist school of thought, along with Socialist, Communist, the radical idealologies really, in the past few monthsd. Traditionally I have been a Conservative Libertarian, but I have become intrigued in the writings of Marx, Lenin, Stalin, etc (thier respective idelologies)