NationStates Jolt Archive

So here in DC, I just attended a public reading themed Politics and Prose which focused on how capitalism has driven Americans to the point of being addicted to consumption. But then I wondered, "Aren't those who are 'addicted to consumption' just trying to keep up with appearances rather than just really being victims of a spoiled and overly abundant culture? Furthermore, don't the ones who are accusing us of being addicted to consumption and complaining against capitalism fall into one of two camps: defending their own interests and vindicating their past actions in business and politics, or whining because they're unable to compete without conceding to unnecessary consumption?"

For anyone that's read David Brooks' Bobos in Paradise, I think this will be a much more relatable argument, but for those who have not, this argument criticizes the motion to overcome capitalism by engaging in communal practices while refusing to partake in traditional charity due to it's ability to pressure individuals into confronting socially awkward situations.

I don't believe in the addiction hypothesis, many people enjoy consumption, but that is hardly addiction. The addicted crowd is just a small group with problems. It could be keeping up appearances to some extent as our culture tends show a tendency of status seeking. It can also be on some level because we enjoy certain forms of consumption highly.

I think that those who whine about the consumption of capitalism are fools who simply see some idealistic notion of human nature as true. Status will not be abolished by any society because of relative human differences. The very quality of difference and individuality result in different human relations that affect how one is viewed and ultimately their status.(before they jump on me, I know that they view my position as foolish)

I'd rather be addicted to consumption.

but for those who have not, this argument criticizes the motion to overcome capitalism by engaging in communal practices while refusing to partake in traditional charity due to it's ability to pressure individuals into confronting socially awkward situations.I haven't read the book and am unsure of how this affect the particular argument, but I do know that anarcho-communists, in seeking to eliminate dependency, also oppose charities because charity makes the recipient dependent upon the welfare of the giver.

I think we are all addicted to consumption on some level because we all want more newer products. However notions to change the system are useless

Isn't everyone consuming all the time? Aren't we consuming air, food and so on?

I mean, I'll freely admit it...Hi, I'm NL and I'm a food-addict.

Furthermore, don't the ones who are accusing us of being addicted to consumption and complaining against capitalism fall into one of two camps: defending their own interests and vindicating their past actions in business and politics, or whining because they're unable to compete without conceding to unnecessary consumption?"


No, they rarely do.

Isn't everyone consuming all the time? Aren't we consuming air, food and so on?

I mean, I'll freely admit it...Hi, I'm NL and I'm a food-addict.
You evil consumerist pig, you! :eek:

I don't believe in the addiction hypothesis, many people enjoy consumption, but that is hardly addiction. The addicted crowd is just a small group with problems. It could be keeping up appearances to some extent as our culture tends show a tendency of status seeking. It can also be on some level because we enjoy certain forms of consumption highly.

I think that those who whine about the consumption of capitalism are fools who simply see some idealistic notion of human nature as true. Status will not be abolished by any society because of relative human differences. The very quality of difference and individuality result in different human relations that affect how one is viewed and ultimately their status.(before they jump on me, I know that they view my position as foolish)
I concur.

I don't believe in the addiction hypothesis, many people enjoy consumption, but that is hardly addiction. The addicted crowd is just a small group with problems. It could be keeping up appearances to some extent as our culture tends show a tendency of status seeking. It can also be on some level because we enjoy certain forms of consumption highly.

I think that those who whine about the consumption of capitalism are fools who simply see some idealistic notion of human nature as true. Status will not be abolished by any society because of relative human differences. The very quality of difference and individuality result in different human relations that affect how one is viewed and ultimately their status.(before they jump on me, I know that they view my position as foolish)

Get over yourself. Or more to the point, get over your paranoia. Considering your notions of 'relative human differences', isn't it a tad bit hypocritical for you to categorically dismiss those whose opinions on consumption & capitalism differ from your own? (Please note that I'm letting your crack about "whining" slide, there Jim.)

So here in DC, I just attended a public reading themed Politics and Prose which focused on how capitalism has driven Americans to the point of being addicted to consumption. But then I wondered, "Aren't those who are 'addicted to consumption' just trying to keep up with appearances rather than just really being victims of a spoiled and overly abundant culture?
I don't think any of these premises are true.

Personally I think capitalism and consumption are FUN! Like a video game! No addiction necessary. But since it IS fun, it stands to reason that players of that game will want to do a lot of it.

It's fun to buy stuff, it's even more fun to sell stuff, and it's fun to compete, too.

The only ones I run across saying it isn't fun are either too broke to play, or they did it wrongly and got themselves deep into debt. IMO complaining about capitilism for that is like blaming the hammer when someone hits their thumb with it.

I have GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). I constantly wanna get new guitar related stuff, and new PC related stuff. Being broke sucks ass. :(

So here in DC, I just attended a public reading themed Politics and Prose which focused on how capitalism has driven Americans to the point of being addicted to consumption. But then I wondered, "Aren't those who are 'addicted to consumption' just trying to keep up with appearances rather than just really being victims of a spoiled and overly abundant culture? Furthermore, don't the ones who are accusing us of being addicted to consumption and complaining against capitalism fall into one of two camps: defending their own interests and vindicating their past actions in business and politics, or whining because they're unable to compete without conceding to unnecessary consumption?"

For anyone that's read David Brooks' Bobos in Paradise, I think this will be a much more relatable argument, but for those who have not, this argument criticizes the motion to overcome capitalism by engaging in communal practices while refusing to partake in traditional charity due to it's ability to pressure individuals into confronting socially awkward situations.

I don't really concern myself with the socio-political ramifications of consumption. I don't see consumption as an issue involving the "fight against capitalism". I'm much more worried about what happens when the middle classes of China and India eventually start living the same lifestyles as Americans and Europeans.

I don't think we'll be able to manage that type of resource consumption for very long, and the consequences resulting from that lack of foresight won't be pretty.

We've done such a damn fine job of exporting American consumption habits that I don't really see a way to avoid it, short of the type government sponsored social indoctrination that most people loathe like the plague.

Bleh...it's one big mess. :(

I don't think we'll be able to manage that type of resource consumption for very long, and the consequences resulting from that lack of foresight won't be pretty.
Well, the consequences will be that the relevant goods become more and more expensive, but also that the efficiency at which they will be produced becomes better and better.

Personally I'm not a pessimist in this matter, I think that the advances in technology and science (both on a technical and on a social level) will outweigh the problems with resource scarcity. There's gonna be hick-ups, and it's the people in the 3rd world who will suffer the most, but the world isn't going to end.

Well, the consequences will be that the relevant goods become more and more expensive, but also that the efficiency at which they will be produced becomes better and better.

Personally I'm not a pessimist in this matter, I think that the advances in technology and science (both on a technical and on a social level) will outweigh the problems with resource scarcity. There's gonna be hick-ups, and it's the people in the 3rd world who will suffer the most, but the world isn't going to end.

Eh...I tend to view the problem as an ecological one rather than an economic one.

There's only so much of a given resource to go around, and there's more and more humans every day. Water is going to be a big issue soon, and water fuels agriculture...

I myself am a pessimist in this matter...though I hope I am wrong.

I don't believe in the addiction hypothesis, many people enjoy consumption, but that is hardly addiction. The addicted crowd is just a small group with problems. It could be keeping up appearances to some extent as our culture tends show a tendency of status seeking. It can also be on some level because we enjoy certain forms of consumption highly.

I think that those who whine about the consumption of capitalism are fools who simply see some idealistic notion of human nature as true. Status will not be abolished by any society because of relative human differences. The very quality of difference and individuality result in different human relations that affect how one is viewed and ultimately their status.(before they jump on me, I know that they view my position as foolish)
Agreed completely.



Fergi America;12528533']I don't think any of these premises are true.

Personally I think capitalism and consumption are FUN! Like a video game! No addiction necessary. But since it IS fun, it stands to reason that players of that game will want to do a lot of it.

It's fun to buy stuff, it's even more fun to sell stuff, and it's fun to compete, too.

The only ones I run across saying it isn't fun are either too broke to play, or they did it wrongly and got themselves deep into debt. IMO complaining about capitilism for that is like blaming the hammer when someone hits their thumb with it.
You forgot about all the people out there who are just plain not happy, or the habitually self loathing, manifested as a sort of cultural/societal/species loathing.

Though I fear that we give them far too much credit. One should never discount those whom are comforted by a smug sense of self importance and a belief in their own superior, enlightened opinions. Plus don't forget about good old fashioned blind indoctrination and egoism.

Get over yourself. Or more to the point, get over your paranoia. Considering your notions of 'relative human differences', isn't it a tad bit hypocritical for you to categorically dismiss those whose opinions on consumption & capitalism differ from your own? (Please note that I'm letting your crack about "whining" slide, there Jim.)
You mean I can't be snotty and arrogant? :( I do not consider myself paranoid though, I just was honestly expressing myself and trying to let it be known that I know that intelligent people will disagree with me. They will see my beliefs as the foolish ones I am certain. I don't think that I am being hypocritical to dismiss those who have different opinions, I may have actually lumped large groups of people into a group and thus stereotyped them, however, that is because a large percent of anti-capitalists do tend to hold on to those notions which I view to be false.

Eh...I tend to view the problem as an ecological one rather than an economic one.

There's only so much of a given resource to go around, and there's more and more humans every day. Water is going to be a big issue soon, and water fuels agriculture...

I myself am a pessimist in this matter...though I hope I am wrong.
Desalination plants ftw!!:D The world is about 2/3s water or something like that, the real problem ends up to not be where is the water, but rather how to extract that efficiently. Costs for these plants can be high however I think it is declining and if they become more desirable the technology will get better. A much larger concern I would have is power as desalinization plants and modern agriculture methods and the rest of civilization needs energy to keep it working, we are now trying to address this problem more so than in the past though.

I have GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). I constantly wanna get new guitar related stuff, and new PC related stuff. Being broke sucks ass. :(

There's a simple solution to this: have no money in the first place, and you will not have new guitar equiptment. Thanks to this simple principal, even though I'd like a guitar that cost more than $500, an amp that cost more than $30, and a couple extra pedals, I don't even have a functioning patch-cord.

Problem solved.

I rather enjoy consumption.

I don't believe in the addiction hypothesis, many people enjoy consumption, but that is hardly addiction. The addicted crowd is just a small group with problems. It could be keeping up appearances to some extent as our culture tends show a tendency of status seeking. It can also be on some level because we enjoy certain forms of consumption highly.

I think the lifelong psychological affection of living in a highly consumerist society is too often willfully overlooked. I see people burying themselves in mortgage debt to get a house that they don't need, but puts them in a good circle of friends. I see mobs pushing and shoving in toy stores the day after Thanksgiving. I see the most impractical and expensive cars driving down the road. I can't help but wonder to myself, "Is this healthy? Is this natural?"

Get over yourself. Or more to the point, get over your paranoia. Considering your notions of 'relative human differences', isn't it a tad bit hypocritical for you to categorically dismiss those whose opinions on consumption & capitalism differ from your own? (Please note that I'm letting your crack about "whining" slide, there Jim.)

What about his post implies a duty to regard all opinions as equal? Do you think that everyone who says "you are wrong, and I am right" is on an ego trip?

The word addiction is abused to much in terms of capitalism.

There are a lot of poor folks in America that are poor because they buy too much stuff. I think that the problem is found mainly among the baby boomers.

I think that the people that were porn in the late 70s and early 80s are a lot less addicted to consumption than their parents. It just is not cool to like the yuppie lifestyle of the 80s. I think that the greatest generation is anything but addicted to consumption. I think the problem lies with their kids and to a much lesser degree their granchildren.

If my own circle of friends is anything of indicitive, young folks are either too broke to be addicted by consumption or else to thrifty to fall prey to its temptations.

I think that consumption is more of a problem among urban and suburban young folks than small town young adults.

I have friends in cities that spend a lot on clothes and would even pay $100 for a meal out with their girlfriend a couple of times a month. I just do not see this sort of behavior at all in small towns.

I personally am not addicted to consumption. As long as I have plenty of tea to drink and the cartoon network, that is about all that I need. I refuse to pay more than $15 for any clothes except sneakers ($50 is my limit) and professional working clothes. I also refuse to buy a new car.

All the young guys I know who are wealthy live pretty much like I do. Some are even cheaper than me. We take pride in being cheap.

People need to recognize that social security will not be there for us young people. We need to work on our retirement ourselves. It is not something to be put off. Everytime that you spend too much on garbage you are cheating yourself.

Anyway, the question wasn't a matter of if capitalism induces addiction to consumption, but rather if the one's who are complaining that it does are the ones who engage in consumption the most.

In other words, why are the consumers who claim to be addicted complaining against the capitalists who.... supply the products that they can consume?

I hope this clarifies my original post since it wasn't meant to argue that capitalism rock and collectivist systems suck.


AND AGAIN, THANK YOU EVERYONE!! :D :D :D

Anyway, the question wasn't a matter of if capitalism induces addiction to consumption, but rather if the one's who are complaining that it does are the ones who engage in consumption the most.Possibly the more high-profile complainers, yes, but it would be silly to say that the hippies and similar-minded people (who make up the majority of the complainers) consume the most.