NationStates Jolt Archive

First, some background:

Two weeks ago I was taking my sister to high school as she was allowed to come to school late due to CSAPS, something 11th and 12th graders do not take. On the way back I stopped at the China Village restaurant to pick up lunch for my mom and me, and I filled out a form for a drawing for a free massage. It also included a free consultation at a doctor's office.

Flash forward to last Thursday: I get a call from a doctor's office asking me when they want my free consultation appointment to be...I set it up for earlier today, admittedly a bit confused because I hadn't realized the doctor's visit was free with all entrants into that drawing. Since I'm always up for a free doctor's visit I eagerly agreed.

Flash forward again to today, when I reach the doctor's office...and I see it's a chiropractor's office. I would have realized that from the start had I bothered to pay more attention to what I was filling out at the China Village.

Anyway, I go in and have my consultation...I'm fed a lot of stuff about how nerves pinched in the spine can affect all sorts of problems. Since I'm in there for lower back pain anyway I have that checked out, and it seems to be at least somewhat serious(which I agree with because it is.) I even have x-rays taken to check it out.

Coming back home I get yelled at by my mom because our insurance doesn't cover chiropracters and that I shouldn't buy into what the chiropracter said about chiropractic medicine.

So, I start doing some research, and that's where NationStates comes in. Is chiropractic medicine really medicine? Most of the information I've been coming across suggests that while it's good for situations like what I have--lower back pain--it's certainly not going to do anything for various illnesses and whatnot that the chiropracter claimed it would. Unfortunately, said information has also been sparse at best, so I figured I'd ask for some help from you guys about it. This could be a nice little resource to help inform lots of other people too, so you never know.

Also, I have a personal decision to make: Do I set up another appointment as has been suggested or do I simply ask for the x-rays and get a second opinion from my regular doctor as my father has suggested? I frankly lean heavily towards my father's suggestion but any new opinions on this are more than welcome.

Is Chiropractic Medicine Medicine?

How white is the color of the white horse of Napoleon?

Is Chiropractic Medicine Medicine?

How white is the color of the white horse of Napoleon?

I meant is it really a form of treatment as it is claimed or is it simply hogwash or whatever other term you wish to use?

if you have to pay for it, dont go. go to your regular doctor first and see what he has to say. many doctors have no problem referring you to a chiropractor if the treatment is right for you. he will also refer you only to a chiropractor that he trusts. no sense going with a guy just because he had a drawing at the chinese restaurant.

chiropracty, which i have never been treated with, is more like physical therapy. if you stick to spinal manipulations (supposing that it is appropriate for you, ask your real doctor) youll be fine.

but chiropractors have a much higher level of quackery about other forms of treatment than MDs or DOs do. i wouldnt believe anything from a chiropractor that wasnt "spinal manipulation can help with your back pain".

did you get a free massage?

I've been to about four or five chiros, and only one of them was worth a damn. When they start talking about subluxations, and how all illnesses are based on the nerve trunk and the spine, walk out.

My current guy is able to adjust my spine to relieve back, neck, shoulder, and hip pain. He's also familiar enough with human anatomy that he has made adjustments on my elbows and shoulder to return freedom of movement. I consider him a musculo-skeletal therapist, and he does a fine job at that. If that's what you want, look for a "straight" chiropractor.

This site (http://www.chirobase.org/) is interesting. Grain of salt, of course.

I would say no. If no other reason than because no matter what is wrong with you they always blame it on subluxation and give the same treatment.

did you get a free massage?

The drawing for that will be held at the end of the month, apparently. In any case, thank you for the rest of your advice...I'm inclined to agree. Hell, while I was there I was given information in an unsual fashion unlike any normal doctor I've ever been to...I was shown a video about chiropractic medicine before seeing the doctor, and I was also given a lot of anecdotes by the doctor about how it helps many problems, and I have NEVER been given anecdotes as real medical information. That alone made me very wary.

Hell, I only had the x-rays taken because I do know something is wrong and x-rays taken anywhere else would have cost me 100 dollars easily WITH my insurance. Here I managed to get under the table at 25.

Fris: Yes, this doctor certainly told me all about that...one of his anecdotes was about how he used to wet the bed as a child of five and how chiropractic adjustments prevented him from ever wetting the bed again.

'Course he also told me about how it's helped keep him in much better shape than any other type of medicine, but, as I said, it's anecdotal evidence and not anything I'm inclined to accept.

I went to the chiropractor after I got in a car accident a year ago. My mom went to the same guy years ago. My dad, who was NYEMT, went to one years back.

Yeah, they're worth, but only ones that don't, as mentioned above, don't spout BS.

Is Chiropractic Medicine Medicine?

How white is the color of the white horse of Napoleon?

Homeopathic medicine isn't medicine though :p

It's a big fat placebo.

I go to a chiropractor, and would highly recommend it to some one who needs it.
Make sure that you go to one that your doctor recommends and/or has a very very good reputation.
As for the idea of chiropractic medicine being able to help with other problems- to an extent it is true. The skeleton supports all of the internal organs, nerves and muscles...so if there is some thing wrong with the skeleton it means that some where a nerve could be pitched and organ squished in a way that it should not be etc.
So lets say that you have a GI problem and you are also have scoliosis,( its possible that the visit to the chiropractor would reveal this and you did not know beforehand) you go to the chiropractor they x-ray you and then you find out that your ribs (per say) are putting pressure on your large intestine, they adjust you and low and behold your GI tract issue goes away. I guessing that that is the sort of thing that the chiropractor was getting at.

If you believe something will work it probably will.

Pick a chiropractor that can tell you how long it will take to cure your problem, not one that does "maintainance" every week or every month. And don't go to one that claims to cure everything.

If they keep working your back, eventually they do more harm than good. Then many people keep going back because of the constant pain. If they can't cure you in a max of 4-5 sessions, walk away.

The back has nothing to do with virus, bacteria, and many other health problems. Those that claim it does are quacks.

I've seen a few reputable chiropractors, but the majority are quacks. I go along with the person that suggested you be referred by an MD. Or possibly try an osteopath instead.

I went to the chiropractor after I got in a car accident a year ago. My mom went to the same guy years ago. My dad, who was NYEMT, went to one years back.

Yeah, they're worth, but only ones that don't, as mentioned above, don't spout BS.
Aye, aye.

Homeopathic medicine isn't medicine though :p

It's a big fat placebo.
Does that extend to all holistic medicine? My parents seem to like the idea of holistic medicine but they are extremely against chiropractors.

I go to a chiropractor, and would highly recommend it to some one who needs it.
Make sure that you go to one that your doctor recommends and/or has a very very good reputation.
As for the idea of chiropractic medicine being able to help with other problems- to an extent it is true. The skeleton supports all of the internal organs, nerves and muscles...so if there is some thing wrong with the skeleton it means that some where a nerve could be pitched and organ squished in a way that it should not be etc.
So lets say that you have a GI problem and you are also have scoliosis,( its possible that the visit to the chiropractor would reveal this and you did not know beforehand) you go to the chiropractor they x-ray you and then you find out that your ribs (per say) are putting pressure on your large intestine, they adjust you and low and behold your GI tract issue goes away. I guessing that that is the sort of thing that the chiropractor was getting at.
I can certainly accept some of that, because nerve pinching and excess pressure on organs can have a detrimental effect, but this chiropracter was professing that ALL such illnesses and whatnot are caused by this, and that no medicine is necessary, because they treat the "underlying causes" and not the "symptoms."
If you believe something will work it probably will.

Pick a chiropractor that can tell you how long it will take to cure your problem, not one that does "maintainance" every week or every month. And don't go to one that claims to cure everything.

If they keep working your back, eventually they do more harm than good. Then many people keep going back because of the constant pain. If they can't cure you in a max of 4-5 sessions, walk away.

The back has nothing to do with virus, bacteria, and many other health problems. Those that claim it does are quacks.

I've seen a few reputable chiropractors, but the majority are quacks. I go along with the person that suggested you be referred by an MD. Or possibly try an osteopath instead.

I don't allow the placebo effect to ever take ahold of me. I am skeptical by nature and I doubt any and all treatments for any problems--though I had to encourage this behavior in me--specifically to prevent placebo effects so that anything that does go wrong WILL be cured by whatever treatment is used rather than me merely believing it is cured when it isn't.

I think I've decided to simply ask for the x-rays and take them to my normal doctor after all. I just hope they don't pull some kind of bullshit and refuse to hand over the x-rays...

I've never been to a chiropractor, but I have some friends and co-workers that have. They have given me some amazing stories. My friends took their infant to the chiropractor. He messed with the neck vertebrae, and the kid stopped barfing as much as she had. She still burped fine after her bottle. She just didn't barf up material.

A co-worker took his wife to the chiropractor. She had a breathing problem which she had had since an accident when she was a kid. The chiropractor played with her neck, and now she breathes normally. My co-worker was mostly incensed that his doctor had told her not to go to a chiropractor.

I've never been to a chiropractor, but I have some friends and co-workers that have. They have given me some amazing stories. My friends took their infant to the chiropractor. He messed with the neck vertebrae, and the kid stopped barfing as much as she had. She still burped fine after her bottle. She just didn't barf up material.

A co-worker took his wife to the chiropractor. She had a breathing problem which she had had since an accident when she was a kid. The chiropractor played with her neck, and now she breathes normally. My co-worker was mostly incensed that his doctor had told her not to go to a chiropractor.

How much of that is the placebo effect, though...and do you have any proof of those claims? I do not trust anecdotal evidence for anything, especially since the chiropractor himself was giving me anecdotal evidence. Please don't misunderstand me...I simply wish to have full proof of anything related to this.

I can certainly accept some of that, because nerve pinching and excess pressure on organs can have a detrimental effect, but this chiropracter was professing that ALL such illnesses and whatnot are caused by this, and that no medicine is necessary, because they treat the "underlying causes" and not the "symptoms."

Its hard to say, I mean in a way he is sort of right, when the body is functioning properly it is way less likely to be prone to infection and disease.
But I would defiantly say that in part he is also way wrong. I know that there are some things like high cholesterol that can't be fixed through chiropractic work.
Personally I don't like the sound of this particular chiropractor, my suggestion would be that you get your x-rays and take them to your doctor and ask him to recommend a chiropractor or two then visit and see what one you like better.
The other thing you could try is physical therapy that also works very well especially for bad backs as a lot of lower pack pain can because by a weak back, a PT can help to strengthen your back that will relieve that pain. If you do go to a PT, I would recommend you you see a sports therapist, in my experience they just seem better at what it is that they do, but again ask a doctor for a recommendation and ask around to see what their reputation is.

Its hard to say, I mean in a way he is sort of right, when the body is functioning properly it is way less likely to be prone to infection and disease.
But I would defiantly say that in part he is also way wrong. I know that there are some things like high cholesterol that can't be fixed through chiropractic work.
I can understand that, certainly. It makes sense, but I don't see how a chiropractor can do much more than any other doctor when it comes to treating muscularskeletal disorders.

Personally I don't like the sound of this particular chiropractor, my suggestion would be that you get your x-rays and take them to your doctor and ask him to recommend a chiropractor or two then visit and see what one you like better.

Yeah, that's a definite now...I don't know why I ever listened to the guy...he even had these info sheets he had me READ from. READ FROM! Like I was back in school! I am too trusting for my own good I swear...


The other thing you could try is physical therapy that also works very well especially for bad backs as a lot of lower pack pain can because by a weak back, a PT can help to strengthen your back that will relieve that pain. If you do go to a PT, I would recommend you you see a sports therapist, in my experience they just seem better at what it is that they do, but again ask a doctor for a recommendation and ask around to see what their reputation is.

I'll definitely consider that as well. I'm somewhat overweight as it is so I've recently joined a gym and started to exercise, but I need to consult my doctor about an exercise program and changes in diet anyway, so I might as well grab the X-Rays and take them to her while I'm at it.
(Sorry...everyone kept saying him and I think my doctor might be mildly offended at the assumption.)

I can understand that, certainly. It makes sense, but I don't see how a chiropractor can do much more than any other doctor when it comes to treating muscularskeletal disorders.
I am not sure how exactly they do it but muscles can pull bones out of place if the muscle spaziums, or the bones can get bumped out of place ect. a chiropractor, well a good one any way, will pop the bone back into place and and remove the spazum from the muscle. that removes the pain and fixes the actual problem where as most(but not all) doctors will just prescribe a pain medication.
indeed, it was a bad assumption to make, thanks for the correction =)

I am not sure how exactly they do it but muscles can pull bones out of place if the muscle spaziums, or the bones can get bumped out of place ect. a chiropractor, well a good one any way, will pop the bone back into place and and remove the spazum from the muscle. that removes the pain and fixes the actual problem where as most(but not all) doctors will just prescribe a pain medication.
indeed, it was a bad assumption to make, thanks for the correction =)

Meh...I think if I ever have any troubles like that I'll just go to a physical therapist. Forget chiropractors entirely.

Thank you all for the information, especially you, Fris. That website was informative about far more than I had expected.

I had a chiropractor fix my lower and middle back problems. Haven't had them in years. But you do have to be careful about quacks.

As the son of a chiropractor, I have somewhat unique perspective on the field.

Personally, my father seems to focus much more on the physical therapy segment of chiropractic. He doesn't disparage modern medicine at all--rather, he has a lot of respect of other doctors, unless, of course, they exhibit outright incompetence or bureaucratic stupidity. Heh, we've had some interesting conversations about this sort of thing.

Ahem.

Like I said, he focuses a lot on physical therapy and skeletal problems, like Cyrian space just mentioned. Judging from our conversations on his business, he gets a lot of business from people recovering from severe car accidents, work-related accidents, etc. He doesn't claim that chiropractic can fix all of those awful diseases as though his hands channel the power of Jesus Christ Superstar, but he has said that it probably does help somewhat in relieving disease. Still, modern medicine and common sense come first when it comes to dealing with disease.

The main problem with chiropractic, in my opinion, is that it isn't standardized. You apparently have quite a few "cultists" who believe that minor issues with the skeleton are the primary cause of disease. You also have common-sense practitioners like my father, who don't seek to supplant conventional medicine, but to carve out their own niche and give it a helping hand.

So... yeah, medicine? I'd say so. Unfortunately, you've got a fair number of frauds that really smear the name of chiropractors, and hearing about these horror stories tends to give chiropractic a bad image in the eyes of the uninformed public.

I live in a small town, but for some reason, there are a lot of chiropractors around here.

I went to a chiropracter after injuring my back. I was squating a lot of weight and accidentally lifted wrong. Used my back instead of my legs. My sciatic nerve was affected and I could feel pain all down my leg. Chiropractor fixed me up with just a few visits. I think a good chiropractor is great for back problems, but I don't buy into the idea that they can cure any other type of illness.

My father for many years taught at a one of the premier chiropractic colleges in the country, and been around chiropracters much of my teenage years, here's what i have heard.

Chiropractors can do wonders for your back. It's a specialized field like any other special branch of medicine, and can really help with physical therapy, back pain, and things like that. It's also worth noting that almost all nerve impulses travel through the spine to the brain, and a pinched nerve or tense muscles in the wrong area can cause radial pain to extend to other parts of the body. Hurting arms, legs, shoulders, neck, migrains, tension headaches, all may be symtomatic of a back problem. So they're not just for back pain, but by helping to relieve the underlying problems, they can help with a series of other concerns

That being said, there is a lot of BS around there, the more "homeopathic" remedies are mostly crap. A good chiropracter can help a lot. A bad one will be no better for you than a local witchdoctor. There are a lot of problems caused by a bad back, mor than just "a hurting back" but the idea that a chiropracter can fix anything, or even things not really related to a hurting spine, is stupid.

Meh...I think if I ever have any troubles like that I'll just go to a physical therapist. Forget chiropractors entirely.

That's just it, for a bad back, a chiropracter IS a physical therapist. In fact, they probably have more training in it than most physical therapists.

I live in a small town, but for some reason, there are a lot of chiropractors around here.

Small towns are full of saps and saps are easy pickin's for quacks.

Does that extend to all holistic medicine? My parents seem to like the idea of holistic medicine but they are extremely against chiropractors.

Holistic medice traditionally means taking the whole person into consideration when treating them (ie mind, body, economic bg, ect). For example, if someone is so poor, they can barely put food on the table, telling them to eat organic isn't going to work.

Unfortunately, a lot of quacks like that phrase as well. So the thing to do is ask questions.

Here's some facts: Chiropractors cannot cure illnesses. They cannot treat colds, fever, cancer, indegestion, ect. Run as fast as you can away from any chiropractor that says they can.

Chiropractors can make adjustments to make muscle/skeletal pain go away in some cases.

Always as your chiropractor if they think certain pinched nerves can cause illness. If they say "yes," leave immediately.

Also homeopathic /= holistic. Homeopathic medicine is the practise of giving someone microscopic bits of poison to "cure" them of an ailment. It's like diluting a milligram of arsenic in an olympic sized pool of water. You are basically paying for nothing more than over priced water.

And despite what people think, there has yet to be a conclusive study to the effectiveness of acupuncture. I'm not saying it doesn't work, there just hasn't been enough research done. That makes it twice as hard to find the quacks in that field.

I meant is it really a form of treatment as it is claimed or is it simply hogwash or whatever other term you wish to use?

An osteopathic specialist is usually a better route.

Chiropractors have killed people using "manipulation under anesthesia".

That is, some person without medical training needed to bend someone's neck far enough to require anesthesia to make it possible, and broke their neck, killing them.

Does that sound "medically sound" or "scientific" to you?